Enchanter levels 12-16
Daveo
favorite character) and had a question. I got my necromancer and monk from
12-16 in Kurns tower, and was wondering if it was a good place to do the
same with an Enchanter. I know I lack the Ward Undead spell, but it seems
Chaotic Feedback does as much damage as Ward Undead. Plus, I was able to
solo there, and while I know an enchanter is a group character, I would love
to race up to 16 for breeze. If you don't think Kurn's is the place to go,
where is? I am open to other ideas as I wouldn't mind seeing someplace new.
Thanks. Also, where can I find a GOOD guide to jewelry making and crowd
control?
no one
12-16 you have much the same to solo as everyone else. Kurns Tower would be
good as you have the dungeon bonus so will lvl quickly depending on how many
times you die. You should really be grouping as much as you can to practise
crowd control skills now. If you are going to solo there then a good tactic
for anywhere is Mez the mob, tashan, root and then DD. Our DD is all or
nothing so if the mob resists then the mez is not broke. When you hit, the
mob is rooted so will not fly at you. Remez and then DD again, reapply root
as needed.
As for Crowd Control you just have to learn in the field. You know what mez
does and how long it lasts. The trick is to teach your group how to work
with you. Be bossy as your life depends on it. Your group should have one
puller. He pulls and says what is incoming and says if there is an add.
After this he says which is the primary target. All other group members
/assist him on the primary mob and you target around him to mez the add(s),
if the mez fails and it leaps on you then flux and remez
Jewelcraft is a very expensive hobby, start it by putting as many prac
points in as you are allowed then just start with silver and Cats Eye agate
and when that trivial move onto the next gem.
See here for trivial list
http://eq.castersrealm.com/tradeskills/trivial.asp?tradeskill=4
Also it is cheaper to do the next metal and a low gem than try to increase
your skill with the current metal once you get up a bit. eg. cheaper to
train electrum + malachite and fail than silver+pearl and fail, both
increases your skill
"Daveo" <doso...@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:9fiphu$1qp$1...@news.xmission.com...
Cyrakis
> The Enchanter class is difficult to pinpoint a tactic for soloing, from
> 12-16 you have much the same to solo as everyone else.
I don't think I've ever seen a more incorrect statement. Nobody solos
like an enchanter. At least not after level 12.
My chanter hit level 12 recently. I'm anxious to get to 16 for breeze
also, but not as anxious as I was to get to 12 for charm. Charm is da
bomb.
Here's how I solo:
Approach dervish camp in south ro. Camp has 3 mobs, 2 blue, 1 white
con. I cast soothe on one blue mob. I cast charm on the white mob.
Charmed mob starts coming to me, and other blue mob agros and runs at
me. The soothed blue sits around the camp waiting for his turn to die.
I back away from camp, and watch the 2 dervs fight (my charmed one,
and other). My pet wins handily (white con versus blue con), at which
point I send it after the other unkilled blue mob. Pet kills this one
also. Now pet is hurt bad, so I tell him to guard a spot. I walk away
and invis myself. Invis breaks the charm, but the charmed mob is so
hurt, he doesn't want to fight me. He starts creeping away while I
finish him with my snake fang. End result: I get exp from all 3 mobs,
and still have 60% mana at the end of the fight.
Certainly, this is not without risk. Get a bad resist, and I'll
quickly have the whole camp coming after me. I recommend getting a sow
before trying to charm solo. When it works though, it's a beautiful
thing, and somewhat unique in EQ gameplay.
>If you are going to solo there then a good tactic
> for anywhere is Mez the mob, tashan, root and then DD. Our DD is all or
> nothing so if the mob resists then the mez is not broke. When you hit, the
> mob is rooted so will not fly at you. Remez and then DD again, reapply root
> as needed.
>
ACK! This is terrible advice! Enchanter DD spells are incredibly mana
inefficient. At level 12 your DD will do like 44 dmg, and costs 45
mana. That is a pathetic ratio. If you must solo this way, a better
tactic is to rot the mob. Tashan them, then root, then cast your best
DOT, then med. You are recovering mana while the mob slowly dies. This
is much more efficient than nuking. The only use for chanter nukes is
when you are in a group, and mobs are dying too fast for your DOT's to
be effective.
> As for Crowd Control you just have to learn in the field. You know what mez
> does and how long it lasts. The trick is to teach your group how to work
> with you. Be bossy as your life depends on it. Your group should have one
> puller. He pulls and says what is incoming and says if there is an add.
> After this he says which is the primary target. All other group members
> /assist him on the primary mob and you target around him to mez the add(s),
> if the mez fails and it leaps on you then flux and remez
Good grouping advice. I would add that understanding mem blur can be
crucial. Mem blur is incredibly powerful, use it. Charm can be a
lifesaver in an overpull too, but make sure your group knows what you
are up to.
Cyrakis
Thought of another tip for soloing a chanter:
Enchanter pet kiting
Summon an animation. Find a target, preferably a slow mob, like a
scarab beetle, or mummy. Tashan the mob, and run away. When spells
refresh, stop running and root the mob. Now cast your best DOT on mob
and med. Re-apply DOTs as they wear off. Keep in mind, the mob has not
touched you yet, your pet is not fighting. The goal is to get the mob
to 50% life using just DOT spells. Once the mob is at 50%, let the
root break naturally. Let the mob hit you to get your pet fighting.
Once pet is fighting, run away. Now you are kiting the mob, while your
pet chases it and strikes. Keep running away until your pet finishes
the mob. If mob stops to engage your pet, hit it with a DD to reaquire
its attention. Distance also plays a part in agro, so don't get too
far away. You want the mob chasing you and ignoring the pet that is
killing it.
Not as exciting as soloing whole camps, but it is more conventional,
and probably safer.
Dan Harmon
"Cyrakis" <cyr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e7e9a223.01060...@posting.google.com...
> "no one" <fi...@carp.net> wrote in message
news:<9fir1k$can$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> > The Enchanter class is difficult to pinpoint a tactic for soloing, from
> > 12-16 you have much the same to solo as everyone else.
>
> I don't think I've ever seen a more incorrect statement. Nobody solos
> like an enchanter. At least not after level 12.
Actually, "no one" is right. Almost every class can solo 12-16 with about
the same ease/difficulty. The only differences are the particular tactics.
As for charming you forgot to mention the part where you lose at least a
bubble of health each time you have to recharm the critter (which you'll
have to do at least once/fight...ok, ok, in 25% of fights you don't have to
recharm...I'd hate to be accused of inaccuracy).
I never use it unless there's no other choice. That would include the
puller pulling two tough critters, neither of which can be mezzed. If I'm
charming my CHA is 170+ (I CAN get it up to 200+ but I usually don't have
time to mem charm AND find my CHA stat stuff, as opposed to my HP or INT
stuff).
Charm is highly overrated.
Bryan Youmans
Dan Harmon wrote:
>
> Actually, "no one" is right. Almost every class can solo 12-16 with about
> the same ease/difficulty. The only differences are the particular tactics.
>
> As for charming you forgot to mention the part where you lose at least a
> bubble of health each time you have to recharm the critter (which you'll
> have to do at least once/fight...ok, ok, in 25% of fights you don't have to
> recharm...I'd hate to be accused of inaccuracy).
>
> I never use it unless there's no other choice. That would include the
> puller pulling two tough critters, neither of which can be mezzed. If I'm
> charming my CHA is 170+ (I CAN get it up to 200+ but I usually don't have
> time to mem charm AND find my CHA stat stuff, as opposed to my HP or INT
> stuff).
>
> Charm is highly overrated.
Amen. I agree with you 100% Dan. Yes, charm soloing for enchanters is
beautiful, WHEN IT WORKS. It only takes one bad thing to happen to get
you killed, and then you just lost the experience you've spent the last
few hours acquiring. The thing I don't like about Cyrakis' plan is that
he is reliant on 'getting a SOW from someone'. That's fine, it's pretty
easy to get a SOW now and then. But if you're going to be charm-soloing,
that's a lot of hours. A lot of hours == a lot of SOWs. What's the point
of soloing if you are reliant on someone else's buffs? Just group, for
crying out loud (it IS a multiplayer game, you know), and watch the exp
fly, with a MUCH REDUCED chance of dying. Because the #1 rule in EQ is,
something bad and beyond your control WILL happen when you're least
expecting it. And an enchanter is a pretty weak punching bag in a tight
spot (yes, stun and mezz are wonderful, but you have to a) be alive to
cast them, b) not be being pounded into mush to cast them, and c) have
mana left over to cast them). Expecting charm to stick for any
reasonable length of time on an even con mob without Tash'ing it first
is not my idea of fun in a game where death could mean a couple of hours
work lost. But hey, some people like living on the edge. If you do, then
go for it.
My opinion: Charm is neat sometimes. Yes I've used it, I've charm solo'd
spectres etc. Soloing is neat sometimes; sometimes you just want to do
something by yourself, sometimes you can't find anyone who will group
with you (especially in the old, pre-Breeze days: getting a group as an
under-29 level enchanter was HARD). But the bottom line is enchanters
are one of the best and most group-friendly classes around (tied with
bards and clerics I suppose, though of course I'm biased into thinking
their the best :) ). Enchanter's shine in groups; 12-16 were the stages
when I was learning how to not only play an enchanter effectively in a
group, but also teaching OTHERS how to group WITH an enchanter. You miss
out on that by soloing. Just my 2cp.
Cyrakis
> Dan Harmon wrote:
> >
>
> > Actually, "no one" is right. Almost every class can solo 12-16 with about
> > the same ease/difficulty. The only differences are the particular tactics.
> >
I was talking about soloing tactics. I'm aware that everyone can solo
at these levels.
> > As for charming you forgot to mention the part where you lose at least a
> > bubble of health each time you have to recharm the critter (which you'll
> > have to do at least once/fight...ok, ok, in 25% of fights you don't have to
> > recharm...I'd hate to be accused of inaccuracy).
You re-charm critters? I haven't had to do that really. Generally the
pet is near death by the time charm breaks, and ready to get killed
anyway. In the cases where it isn't, stun, mez, mem blur will take
care of mobs you don't want to fight. I also try to charm mobs that
don't agro naturally, like oasis crocs. One mem blur and they forget
all about you.
> >
> > I never use it unless there's no other choice. That would include the
> > puller pulling two tough critters, neither of which can be mezzed. If I'm
> > charming my CHA is 170+ (I CAN get it up to 200+ but I usually don't have
> > time to mem charm AND find my CHA stat stuff, as opposed to my HP or INT
> > stuff).
> >
> > Charm is highly overrated.
Whatever floats your boat dude. IMO, charm is the defining ability for
chanters. Your comment is much like wizards saying they never use area
effect spells. Why play the class if you hate the class defining
ability?
>
> Amen. I agree with you 100% Dan. Yes, charm soloing for enchanters is
> beautiful, WHEN IT WORKS. It only takes one bad thing to happen to get
> you killed, and then you just lost the experience you've spent the last
> few hours acquiring. The thing I don't like about Cyrakis' plan is that
> he is reliant on 'getting a SOW from someone'. That's fine, it's pretty
> easy to get a SOW now and then. But if you're going to be charm-soloing,
> that's a lot of hours. A lot of hours == a lot of SOWs. What's the point
> of soloing if you are reliant on someone else's buffs? Just group, for
> crying out loud (it IS a multiplayer game, you know), and watch the exp
> fly, with a MUCH REDUCED chance of dying.
I agree with you that soloing is slower exp, and riskier than
grouping. However, the original poster was specifically asking about
soloing his chanter. Also, sow is not required to do the charm
soloing, it just makes it practically risk free. I prefer to have a
sow if I'm solo going up against a whole camp of mean mobs, but if I'm
just using charm to kill random wandering mobs, it's not needed.
Granted, charm soloing is not for people playing on auto-pilot. You
actually have to think about what you are doing. If you are aware of
the risks, and play alertly, it can pay off though.
>Because the #1 rule in EQ is,
> something bad and beyond your control WILL happen when you're least
> expecting it. And an enchanter is a pretty weak punching bag in a tight
> spot (yes, stun and mezz are wonderful, but you have to a) be alive to
> cast them, b) not be being pounded into mush to cast them, and c) have
> mana left over to cast them). Expecting charm to stick for any
> reasonable length of time on an even con mob without Tash'ing it first
> is not my idea of fun in a game where death could mean a couple of hours
> work lost. But hey, some people like living on the edge. If you do, then
> go for it.
You never expect charm to stick for ANY length of time, and play
accordingly. I.e. stay far away from your charmed mob, and what it is
fighting. You need time to react if charm breaks.
>
> My opinion: Charm is neat sometimes. Yes I've used it, I've charm solo'd
> spectres etc. Soloing is neat sometimes; sometimes you just want to do
> something by yourself, sometimes you can't find anyone who will group
> with you (especially in the old, pre-Breeze days: getting a group as an
> under-29 level enchanter was HARD). But the bottom line is enchanters
> are one of the best and most group-friendly classes around (tied with
> bards and clerics I suppose, though of course I'm biased into thinking
> their the best :) ). Enchanter's shine in groups; 12-16 were the stages
> when I was learning how to not only play an enchanter effectively in a
> group, but also teaching OTHERS how to group WITH an enchanter. You miss
> out on that by soloing. Just my 2cp.
Again, grouping is where it's at, I agree. If you want to solo your
chanter though, using charm can be really cool. It's shortsighted to
just give up on the spell because it got resisted or didn't last as
long as you wanted. Root does the same thing, but people still use it.
Besides all the other arguments, I find it is a FUN way to play.
Certainly a lot more interesting than soloing a lot of other classes.
Bryan Youmans
Or you could throw in some fear. Reverse kiting is an option for teen
enchanters in NK. the beetles there run at pretty slow speeds. At higher
levels, you can reverse kite spectres, as they also run at snare speed
by default.
Dan Harmon
> care of mobs you don't want to fight. I also try to charm mobs that
> don't agro naturally, like oasis crocs. One mem blur and they forget
> all about you.
Oh, that's true about 1/2 of the time. Most things need more than one dose.
Actually, I have better luck with mem blur when I mez 'em...even my new
level 8 enchanter on The Rathe.
And yes, charm usually (more than 50% of the time) breaks within about a
dozen seconds of casting it...so yes, you usually have to recharm or run.
> Whatever floats your boat dude. IMO, charm is the defining ability for
> chanters. Your comment is much like wizards saying they never use area
> effect spells. Why play the class if you hate the class defining
> ability?
LOL, if you think that charming stuff is the enchanter's class defining
ability you're going to be very disappointed when you start hitting the
dungeons. Especially if you group with a wizard who believes that AE damage
is THEIR class defining ability (wizards who use AE don't get re-claritied).
Charming is a sideline...that's all it is. It's not reliable to use and
should not EVER be counted on, even to gain you xp. I mean, it's cool that
it worked for you in limited ways, but it's something you use to keep your
ass alive or to have fun impressing newbies or pulling jokes on people or
amuse people, pretty much like the vast majority of our illusions. It's
not something you should base your character on. You'll find that out
probably the 5th or 6th time charming gets you killed...I don't expect you
to believe me right now. Hell, using a pet is probably better...at least it
doesn't take a lot of mana to cast, like Charm does.
> Granted, charm soloing is not for people playing on auto-pilot. You
> actually have to think about what you are doing. If you are aware of
> the risks, and play alertly, it can pay off though.
True, an enchanter that plays on auto-pilot is useless. Even above my
level of 52 there are enchanters that are useless except for buffs. They
can't be counted on to do their class defining ability (that's crowd
control, btw, in case you were wondering). A group can't be RUDE to their
enchanter (never be rude to an enchanter unless you're a necro and don't
need any buff from them) but if they could they'd tell these folks, "just
keep us claritied, sped up and sit your worthless ass over in the corner
until we call you again...root parking is preferable to you."
Rickie McComb
> ...
> I agree with you that soloing is slower exp, and riskier than
> grouping. However, the original poster was specifically asking about
> soloing his chanter. Also, sow is not required to do the charm
> soloing, it just makes it practically risk free. I prefer to have a
> sow if I'm solo going up against a whole camp of mean mobs, but if I'm
> just using charm to kill random wandering mobs, it's not needed.
>
(Sorry, this is a bit long.)
(Also, has anyone used this technique at any levels above 14th or
15th???)
I believe I disagree with the 'soloing is slower exp.' part. At
least at 12th and 13th level for my enchantress. I've been soloing with
my pet (It's not really soloing if you use a pet, is it?) in West
Commons. I'm mostly taking on Young Kodiaks.
I cast my dot and wait for the YK to get close. As it gets to me, I
turn on auto attack and run straight through it and a little past it.
It has hit me once or twice and my pet has started attacking. Once I am
past it, usually far enough that it has turned its attention to my pet,
I turn around and face its back side. I move up to attack range and if
it stays on the pet, I have a better chance of hitting it.
If it turns to attack me, my pet has a better chance of hitting it
and while the YK is hitting me, it's not hitting my pet. Also, the more
the pet hits it, the more the YK hates the pet. The YK starts flipping
back and forth splitting its attention between the pet and me.
When the dot is about to run out, I decide whether it's efficient to
step back and apply another dot. My decision is based on if the YK has
a third or more of health left and on whether I have lost a bubble or
more of health or if I am below 60% health.
Usually, once they hit about 1/3 health or less, they start running.
I usually give chase with my pet to help finish the YK off. (As slow as
I run, I usually don't catch it, but I try.)
I then loot and look for the next YK. On the average, I repeat this
3 times before moving to the wall to rest/med. I've usually only cast 4
dots for the 3 YKs so I still have about 30% of my mana left. Enough
for emergencies.
If I'm below 50% health, bandage to 50%+. Three minutes medding,
recast my buffs and the buff on my pet and med back to full. Another 2
minutes at most. That 5 minutes is enough to bring me back to full
health.
That's 5 minutes medding/healing. Say 6 minutes to find and kill 3
YKs. Say another minute for misc. That's 3 minutes per kill and each
kill is almost half a mini bubble of exp.
I gained an entire level in less than 3 hours of hunting. I also
used the med time and the meat to work on my cooking skill and the
Grizzly Skins in tailoring Bear Skin Potion bags (they make excellent
10-slot containers).
What about over pulls or adds. I HAD to learn parking skills. My
machine is slow. I can't out run a mob to save my life (pun intended).
Even with a SOW, I sometimes can't out run mobs. So I park the adds
till I'm ready for them. If I'm getting low on health and/or mana, I
park them and then gate.
I hope I can continue to use this in the levels to come, possibly
continue it with Kodiaks added when ever found. I know that I will
eventually outgrow this area. Are there any areas where this will work
and still gain good exp. for levels above 15th???
Sharnee, Dark Elf, 14th degree Enchantress, Lanys T'Vyl
--
Rickie McComb DM Associate Computer Engineer
rmc...@ata-sd.com GM Applied Technologies Associates
rmc...@pacbell.net GD (Programmer, PCs & Embedded Systems)
___________________________
Buzzard, beginning a dive:
"Patience my Tail Feathers!
I'm going to kill something."
Dan Harmon
"Rickie McComb" <rmc...@ata-sd.com> wrote in message
news:3B1E5ED1...@ata-sd.com...
> What about over pulls or adds. I HAD to learn parking skills. My
> machine is slow. I can't out run a mob to save my life (pun intended).
> Even with a SOW, I sometimes can't out run mobs. So I park the adds
> till I'm ready for them. If I'm getting low on health and/or mana, I
> park them and then gate.
Hit "Run." ;)
>
> I hope I can continue to use this in the levels to come, possibly
> continue it with Kodiaks added when ever found. I know that I will
> eventually outgrow this area. Are there any areas where this will work
> and still gain good exp. for levels above 15th???
I was soloing similar to this in LIO from level 27 to 29. I did take
advantage of root and fear (not together, of course, since root negates the
advantage of fear) at times though. Just depended on the critter.
BTW, troll form at 20 comes in danged handy while soloing. The regen effect
is very nice.
no one
times it was resisted and caused trains and my death. This was with 182
charisma at the time ( I know I was twinked), now at lvl 44 and 202 charisma
this line of spells still does not work so my hat off to you for being the
only chanter i have met to successfully use that spell :o)
Charm (with 184cha) at that level was practically useless and I did not
start to use it until I had beguile. Now with Cajoling whispers I can charm
a Ry'Goor Elite and have it rip through 6 giants before making it guard a
spot and finish it. The DD's become more mana efficient and the MezBomb
works nice with Anarchy onwards but does work lower down. With rooting and
DoT, the mob will resist the root twice per tick instead of once so = Dead
chanter
Group group group is the only real way a chanter should go, with so many
spells the combinations of soloing are immense.
"Cyrakis" <cyr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e7e9a223.01060...@posting.google.com...
Rickie McComb
>
> "Rickie McComb" <rmc...@ata-sd.com> wrote in message
> news:3B1E5ED1...@ata-sd.com...
>
> > What about over pulls or adds. I HAD to learn parking skills. My
> > machine is slow. I can't out run a mob to save my life (pun intended).
> > Even with a SOW, I sometimes can't out run mobs. So I park the adds
> > till I'm ready for them. If I'm getting low on health and/or mana, I
> > park them and then gate.
>
> Hit "Run." ;)
/humor
I tried that once. It took all the fun out of the game. ;)
/endhumor
>
> >
> > I hope I can continue to use this in the levels to come, possibly
> > continue it with Kodiaks added when ever found. I know that I will
> > eventually outgrow this area. Are there any areas where this will work
> > and still gain good exp. for levels above 15th???
>
> I was soloing similar to this in LIO from level 27 to 29. I did take
> advantage of root and fear (not together, of course, since root negates the
> advantage of fear) at times though. Just depended on the critter.
>
> BTW, troll form at 20 comes in danged handy while soloing. The regen effect
> is very nice.
Whoa!! Troll form includes the regen attribute? That's great.
Thanks for the info.
StanMann
Rickie McComb wrote:
>
> > BTW, troll form at 20 comes in danged handy while soloing. The regen effect
> > is very nice.
>
> Whoa!! Troll form includes the regen attribute? That's great.
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
And bash(stun)
StanMann
--
OK, I have tremendous admiration for someone who goes to the trouble of
learning American English when it isn't their native tongue, but there
is
precious little that is funnier than someone cursing in English when
they
aren't completely fluent in it. It's made even funnier when they're
apopleptic with rage, as Arnaud here is.--Brandon Blackmoor
Dan Harmon
> > BTW, troll form at 20 comes in danged handy while soloing. The regen
effect
> > is very nice.
>
> Whoa!! Troll form includes the regen attribute? That's great.
First time I cast it I was on the stone bridge in NK. Bad idea. ;)
Dan Harmon
"StanMann" <stan...@not.there.anymore.com> wrote in message
news:3B1FC931...@not.there.anymore.com...
> And bash(stun)
With a skill of 1, and a hotbutton that has to be continually re-created
every time you log in (I think...please correct me if I'm wrong).
StanMann
Actually IIRC it is a persistent button even if you change form,
although you get the message that you can't use that skill.
Dan Harmon
>
>
> Dan Harmon wrote:
> >
> > "StanMann" <stan...@not.there.anymore.com> wrote in message
> > news:3B1FC931...@not.there.anymore.com...
> >
> > > And bash(stun)
> >
> > With a skill of 1, and a hotbutton that has to be continually re-created
> > every time you log in (I think...please correct me if I'm wrong).
>
> Actually IIRC it is a persistent button even if you change form,
> although you get the message that you can't use that skill.
Maybe for that logon...I'm PRETTY sure that once you log off it's gone,
though I haven't bothered with it for 6+ months so I could be wrong.
Cyrakis
>
> Oh, that's true about 1/2 of the time. Most things need more than one dose.
> Actually, I have better luck with mem blur when I mez 'em...even my new
> level 8 enchanter on The Rathe.
>
> And yes, charm usually (more than 50% of the time) breaks within about a
> dozen seconds of casting it...so yes, you usually have to recharm or run.
Not my experience at all. I found your comment to be true when
charming mobs that con yellow or higher, but not for blue cons. I dont
even try to charm yellow or above anymore. Even if charm breaks, there
are more options to deal with it than you have listed. For one thing,
you can charm a different mob, maybe the one you were originally
trying to kill. Or, if both mobs are beat up and now chasing you, root
them both and dot them to death. Or, you can potentially use mem blur
to de-agro one of the mobs.
>
> > Whatever floats your boat dude. IMO, charm is the defining ability for
> > chanters. Your comment is much like wizards saying they never use area
> > effect spells. Why play the class if you hate the class defining
> > ability?
>
> LOL, if you think that charming stuff is the enchanter's class defining
> ability you're going to be very disappointed when you start hitting the
> dungeons. Especially if you group with a wizard who believes that AE damage
> is THEIR class defining ability (wizards who use AE don't get re-claritied).
It certainly is the class defining ability. What other class get's a
charm anything line (disregarding bards, they get everything)? Lots of
classes have crowd control of various degrees.
AE is the defining ability for wizards as well. That is the one area
where they have a very clear advantage over any other class. Just
because you've never grouped with people who competently use AE,
doesn't mean those of us who have are liars. I guess you've never
heard of the very succesful AE groups based around multiple wizards
and enchanters, chaining stuns and AE nukes? There is more than one
way to play EQ, despite what you may believe.
>
> Charming is a sideline...that's all it is.
For you, this may be true. Not every tool is right for every job. Just
because a circular saw makes a poor hammer, does not make the circular
saw useless, and a "sideline". Same with charm. Just because you are
afraid of using this ability, does not make it a worthless ability for
everyone. I use it, and make it pay.
>It's not reliable to use and
> should not EVER be counted on, even to gain you xp.
Yep, I agree. But like I said before lots of spell lines are
unreliable. You take that into account when using it, and plan
accordingly. Or, in your case, give up and move the spells to the back
of your spellbook.
Did you move root back there with charm too?
>I mean, it's cool that
> it worked for you in limited ways, but it's something you use to keep your
> ass alive or to have fun impressing newbies or pulling jokes on people or
> amuse people, pretty much like the vast majority of our illusions.
I disagree. It's incredibly powerful, and a lot of fun.
> It's
> not something you should base your character on. You'll find that out
> probably the 5th or 6th time charming gets you killed...I don't expect you
> to believe me right now. Hell, using a pet is probably better...at least it
> doesn't take a lot of mana to cast, like Charm does.
Groups I get in are asking me to charm adds. They see the power. I
don't charm everything, but used with skill, it's awesome. A high
green mob makes a fine pet, and they are easy to charm. I routinely
have green mob charms lasting through 3 fights. Charmed mobs do the
same damage as they would normally, which is a lot more than pets of
comparable level.
I have died from charms going wrong, though not so much lately as I've
learned how to use it better. I haven't died yet when charming while
in a group. Nor have any of my groupmates died because of charm. In
fact, one guy died because I didn't have a caiman available to charm
and send after a DW croc.
> True, an enchanter that plays on auto-pilot is useless. Even above my
> level of 52 there are enchanters that are useless except for buffs. They
> can't be counted on to do their class defining ability (that's crowd
> control, btw, in case you were wondering).
Actually, charm is really a form of crowd control. I use it that way
sometimes. Mez line is not defining for chanters, because the effect
is shared with other classes.
> A group can't be RUDE to their
> enchanter (never be rude to an enchanter unless you're a necro and don't
> need any buff from them) but if they could they'd tell these folks, "just
> keep us claritied, sped up and sit your worthless ass over in the corner
> until we call you again...root parking is preferable to you."
You seem to have a very narrow view of what's acceptable for your
class. Don't you find that playing the same way all the time to get
boring? There really is more than one way to kill stuff in EQ.
Flex Mentallo
<ECRT6.268$p%4.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>:
Well, the troll/ogre/barbarian illusions all have Slam, not bash, but yeah,
the skill is 1, and the hotbutton goes away when the illusion does (feh).
I haven't done this at all since I got Color Shift (at 20), but it's nice
to be able to actually affect the fight when the mob is seriously red.
I just wish I could punch with my Moggok/Crude stein pair.
--
Flex Mentallo
Man of Muscle Mystery
"He can cloud men's minds with his biceps."
Dan Harmon
> "Dan Harmon" <deha...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:<P6qT6.2116$1Z3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> >
> > > Whatever floats your boat dude. IMO, charm is the defining ability for
> > > chanters. Your comment is much like wizards saying they never use area
> > > effect spells. Why play the class if you hate the class defining
> > > ability?
> >
> > LOL, if you think that charming stuff is the enchanter's class defining
> > ability you're going to be very disappointed when you start hitting the
> > dungeons. Especially if you group with a wizard who believes that AE
damage
> > is THEIR class defining ability (wizards who use AE don't get
re-claritied).
>
> It certainly is the class defining ability. What other class get's a
> charm anything line (disregarding bards, they get everything)? Lots of
> classes have crowd control of various degrees.
Just because one class has a particular spell doesn't mean it's the
class-defining ability. Big deal, enchanters can charm. So can bards and
druids (at the very least). Not as well, but considering charm is less
reliable than root, the limitations on their use of the spell is not a big
deal.
The only abilities that can possibly be considered "class defining" in a
game that promotes grouping (and REQUIRES grouping later in most situations)
MUST be an ability that's used in grouping on a regular basis.
Charming is but a minor tool in crowd control at later levels. You use it
when you can't mez something...the mana it costs to charm/recharm (when
you're fighting blues at 40+ you ARE going to have to recharm unless the
other critter goes down FAST) is prohibitive (Allure, level 49 charm, 245
mana; Dazzle, level 25 mez, 125 mana). The casting time is prohibitive
(Allure, level 49, 6 seconds. Mez, 2.5 seconds).
>
> AE is the defining ability for wizards as well. That is the one area
> where they have a very clear advantage over any other class. Just
> because you've never grouped with people who competently use AE,
> doesn't mean those of us who have are liars. I guess you've never
> heard of the very succesful AE groups based around multiple wizards
> and enchanters, chaining stuns and AE nukes? There is more than one
> way to play EQ, despite what you may believe.
You're talking about cute little xp groups, of which I STILL take part in
many. There's LOTS of ways to play EQ...but just because you CAN do
something doesn't mean it's class defining. A wizard who uses AE at level
40+ with an enchanter in the group is a wizard who will find it damned hard
to continue finding groups. People who piss off enchanters on purpose
aren't very bright.
But your scenario doesn't work in dungeons to any great degree, and that's
where you go to do serious hunting.
A class defining ability in a group-based game must be group-based. AE
damage spells are outdoor soloing or cute xp group spells.
> > Charming is a sideline...that's all it is.
>
> For you, this may be true. Not every tool is right for every job. Just
Of course. Charm is a tool. One of those allen wrenches that most people
use only rarely.
> Groups I get in are asking me to charm adds. They see the power. I
> don't charm everything, but used with skill, it's awesome. A high
> green mob makes a fine pet, and they are easy to charm. I routinely
> have green mob charms lasting through 3 fights. Charmed mobs do the
> same damage as they would normally, which is a lot more than pets of
> comparable level.
Then here's a hint for higher levels. Unless you've also got a necro or
magician...and know how to CONTROL it (besides just saying /pet attack,
because that doesn't even come close to understanding and controlling pets),
and I'm betting you don't, your pet will only cause you to die, again and
again.
It's bad enough when a magician or necro can't time their pet commands when
you're trying to mez the critter the pet is beating on, but an enchanter
with no experience with REAL control experience is a useless enchanter.
You are fighting one critter. You get 3 adds. You AE mez and are far
enough away or lucky enough not to mez yourself AND lucky enough not to get
any resists.
You charm one, and when the 3 wake up, 2 come after you.
Your charmed one starts engaging one of the 2 adds that are left, and is NOT
/assisting the main tank.
At some point you mez one of the adds. Let's assume you're lucky and you
mez the one your pet is NOT attacking
What's left is your pet beating on the critter. Let's continue to be very
generous and say the critter is beating on the pet and not you.
What do you do? Continuing with my generosity let's say you know how to
control your pet. You know how to get him to quit hitting the critter.
How do you do 2 things at the exact same time? More specifically, how do
you get your pet to stop fighting, and mez the critter before he re-aggros
your pet? It's possible, but a royal pain in the ass.
I don't consider that very smart. It's certainly not mana efficient at all.
You'd be smart to learn really early on that group members don't know
ANYTHING about your powers. All they know is that YOU are the one that
makes it possible to fight just one critter at a time. HOW you do it is up
to you, but don't slow them down by being OOM at the end of the fight when
other options were available that would leave you at 50% mana (and almost as
importantly, the healer with more mana).
The best way to handle adds that can be mezzed is...oddly enough...by
MEZZING them. It's cheap as hell, and when the tanks and casters start
whining for enchanter buffs you KNOW how much time you have left and can
cast the spell when possible. And funny thing is...you may just have mana
to cast them.
In most outdoor situations when you come across an add that can't be mezzed
I've found the best solution is root-parking them. Root is more reliable.
Indoors, yes, if they're blue, attempt to charm them if they can't be
mezzed. If you can't charm them (either resists or the soon-to-be problem
of OOM) get the tanks to switch targets and mez the original target
(assuming the original target is mezzable and not near death...if it is,
don't worry about being beat on for a bit).
Another tip. I've yet to come across a critter who cannot be mezzed, but
CAN be stunned. This has nothing to do with our debate, but figured you'd
like to know since you haven't really come across them yet (I think you said
you're below level 20).
> Actually, charm is really a form of crowd control. I use it that way
> sometimes. Mez line is not defining for chanters, because the effect
> is shared with other classes.
No more than charm is. Bards can mez. I think necros can. That's it.
The difference is that charm is primarily an outdoors option. Mezzing is
the dungeon option. Outdoors is for soloers and small groups (in most
cases). Dungeons are for full/near full groups.
Why would you base a "class defining ability" on a primarily outdoor/solo
tactic when that's NOT what EQ is about?
>
> > A group can't be RUDE to their
> > enchanter (never be rude to an enchanter unless you're a necro and don't
> > need any buff from them) but if they could they'd tell these folks,
"just
> > keep us claritied, sped up and sit your worthless ass over in the corner
> > until we call you again...root parking is preferable to you."
>
> You seem to have a very narrow view of what's acceptable for your
> class. Don't you find that playing the same way all the time to get
> boring? There really is more than one way to kill stuff in EQ.
I know a bad enchanter in the post 40 game when I see one.
I know that there are a hell of a lot of options for enchanters. I
regularly use pages 1 - 25 in my spell book, depending on situation (another
tip, spell book organization is probably most important for enchanters).
I know how to do crowd control and I'm better at it than ANY other class at
ANY level, assuming my spells can stick. I'm going to go out on a limb and
say that I'm at least as good as 75% or more of enchanters on my server.
I use MANY different tools to do my job. You've got charm on the brain as
some excellent tool. It's not...it's mediocre at best. NECESSARY
sometimes, but that doesn't make it great, and it certainly doesn't make it
"class defining."
Dan Harmon
"Flex Mentallo" <bka...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:90BA6BE3Bbkah...@10.10.1.11...
> I just wish I could punch with my Moggok/Crude stein pair.
Or at least splash some beer in their face.
d...@badplace.net
: "Dan Harmon" <deha...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:<P6qT6.2116$1Z3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
:>
:> Oh, that's true about 1/2 of the time. Most things need more than one dose.
:> Actually, I have better luck with mem blur when I mez 'em...even my new
:> level 8 enchanter on The Rathe.
:>
:> And yes, charm usually (more than 50% of the time) breaks within about a
:> dozen seconds of casting it...so yes, you usually have to recharm or run.
: Not my experience at all. I found your comment to be true when
: charming mobs that con yellow or higher, but not for blue cons. I dont
: even try to charm yellow or above anymore. Even if charm breaks, there
: are more options to deal with it than you have listed. For one thing,
: you can charm a different mob, maybe the one you were originally
: trying to kill. Or, if both mobs are beat up and now chasing you, root
: them both and dot them to death. Or, you can potentially use mem blur
: to de-agro one of the mobs.
I have never put any percentages on it, but 50% sounds high, although it
breakes often enough and at bad times, so I am with Dan, considering all
the other tools an enchanter has it is not one of the best.
:> > Whatever floats your boat dude. IMO, charm is the defining ability for
:> > chanters. Your comment is much like wizards saying they never use area
:> > effect spells. Why play the class if you hate the class defining
:> > ability?
The defineing skill for an enchanter is mezz, no doubt about it, charm
is a minor tool. I have said this before, but the 34 level mezz last 72
seconds, and except for a greenie I have never had a charm last close to
that. I can have a roomfull of creatures mezzed, I can charm one, and
when charmed i have to be thinking about controlling it, and seriously
an enchanter has quite a bit to think about already.
:> Charming is a sideline...that's all it is.
: For you, this may be true. Not every tool is right for every job. Just
: because a circular saw makes a poor hammer, does not make the circular
: saw useless, and a "sideline". Same with charm. Just because you are
: afraid of using this ability, does not make it a worthless ability for
: everyone. I use it, and make it pay.
Well I don't think he said useless. In fact I have found it very useful,
in the right situation. It has saved my butt on a few occasions so has
my pet, but I RARELY use either any more.
: Did you move root back there with charm too?
I don't root much any more either, because mezz parks a mob better than
root and since I am always grouped, usually I let others root. That does
not mean I don't root from time to time, depends on the configuration of
the group. The spells I alway keep memed are suffocate, anarchy, color
shift, entrance, and tashani. The others I am constantly swapping
around.
:>I mean, it's cool that
:> it worked for you in limited ways, but it's something you use to keep your
:> ass alive or to have fun impressing newbies or pulling jokes on people or
:> amuse people, pretty much like the vast majority of our illusions.
: I disagree. It's incredibly powerful, and a lot of fun.
It is fun, no doubt, but no way to make a living....
: Groups I get in are asking me to charm adds. They see the power. I
: don't charm everything, but used with skill, it's awesome. A high
You will find, as you get higher in level, people will start asking you
to mezz. In fact, they will be expecting it, and if you start charming
stuff in dungeons people will loose patience with you fast. You do a
good job of mezzing and people will seek you out.
: Actually, charm is really a form of crowd control. I use it that way
: sometimes. Mez line is not defining for chanters, because the effect
: is shared with other classes.
Yup charm is a form of crowd control, but it is a second class form of
crowd control. AND bards can mezzmerize and charm, druids can charm...
: You seem to have a very narrow view of what's acceptable for your
: class. Don't you find that playing the same way all the time to get
: boring? There really is more than one way to kill stuff in EQ.
I personally don't find this a narrow or limiting, only realistic. I
still charm/fear kite and even get out a pet from time to time. I would
not try to make a living doing it though, there are other classes that
are much better and more fun at it. *cough* necro.
From time to time I kite stuff with my ranger and melee with my druid,
but I would not try to make a living doing either, because it is not
their defining ability.
-Michael
Dan Harmon
<d...@badplace.net> wrote in message
news:K0bU6.10015$Dd5.2...@ruti.visi.com...
> I don't root much any more either, because mezz parks a mob better than
> root and since I am always grouped, usually I let others root. That does
> not mean I don't root from time to time, depends on the configuration of
> the group. The spells I alway keep memed are suffocate, anarchy, color
> shift, entrance, and tashani. The others I am constantly swapping
> around.
You're missing a big advantage if you've put away one AE stun for the other.
Although it's not possible to have a critter 100% stunned with just the 2
stuns you have right now (err, if you have 3, then it's now possible) it
comes in damned handy when trying to take control.
Casting your level 4 stun gives you time to cast your level 20 stun which
gives you time to mez safely (not to mention the advantage the AE has in
stunning the tank's target if your target and theirs is close enough
together). Bypassing your level 4 stun makes it harder for you to get your
level 20 off.
Still, using ONE stun is better than a lot of enchanters I know who don't
mem ANY.
d...@badplace.net
: <d...@badplace.net> wrote in message
: news:K0bU6.10015$Dd5.2...@ruti.visi.com...
:> I don't root much any more either, because mezz parks a mob better than
:> root and since I am always grouped, usually I let others root. That does
:> not mean I don't root from time to time, depends on the configuration of
:> the group. The spells I alway keep memed are suffocate, anarchy, color
:> shift, entrance, and tashani. The others I am constantly swapping
:> around.
: You're missing a big advantage if you've put away one AE stun for the other.
: Although it's not possible to have a critter 100% stunned with just the 2
: stuns you have right now (err, if you have 3, then it's now possible) it
: comes in damned handy when trying to take control.
I am not saying I dont use both, I am saying that I don't always use
both. :-)
My use of spells is situational. And I will swap in root, dyn's, color flux,
charm, CtM, and buffs as needed, (did I miss anything?).
There are times when I mem, color shift, color flux, and dyn's.
-Michael
Richard Burge
> > > > And bash(stun)
> > >
> > > With a skill of 1, and a hotbutton that has to be continually re-created
> > > every time you log in (I think...please correct me if I'm wrong).
> >
> > Actually IIRC it is a persistent button even if you change form,
> > although you get the message that you can't use that skill.
>
> Maybe for that logon...I'm PRETTY sure that once you log off it's gone,
> though I haven't bothered with it for 6+ months so I could be wrong.
I have used it recently and can confirm the above - the slam (not bash)
button has to be set up every time you logon, and isn't even available
to set up until you acquire the skill by casting your illusion. Once set
up, the button will remain even when your illusion fades, although it
will cease to be a pushable button - doesn't grey out or anything, just
stops working. When you reapply your illusion your button starts working
again. Its gone completely the next time you logon.