Creating a Corpse Dragging Rogue
Jonah Johansen
dangerous areas. I have heard I only need to get the rogue to level 3 for
hide and sneak.
Is there any real advantage to trying to level the rogue beyond this
if I will only be using them for this function.
In other words what does incresed skill in sneak and hide give you.
One elf race has hide or sneak as a racial ability is there an avantage to
using this race?
Is there actually any advantage to equiping the rogue.
In creating the rogue are there any stats which will help the hide and
sneak ability.
Dan Harmon
"Jonah Johansen" <imj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2GWM7.123230$qx2.7...@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> I am thinking of creating a Rogue for the purpose of dragging corpses from
> dangerous areas. I have heard I only need to get the rogue to level 3 for
> hide and sneak.
Make a halfling rogue and you'll have both hide & sneak at level 1. Have
him follow Brell Serilis and he'll be able to wander around almost all of
The Hole WITHOUT hide/sneaking (ratmen and undead are the only KOS critters,
despite getting /con messages from EVERYTHING that you're KOS).
William Sit
"Dan Harmon" <deha...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:BOXM7.151309$zK1.41...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
Jason Willoughby
> I am thinking of creating a Rogue for the purpose of dragging corpses from
> dangerous areas. I have heard I only need to get the rogue to level 3 for
> hide and sneak.
Sneak at level 1, hide at 3.
> Is there any real advantage to trying to level the rogue beyond this
> if I will only be using them for this function.
> In other words what does incresed skill in sneak and hide give you.
At level 3, your skills are capped at 15, which means you'll fail about 95%
of the time. You can keep hitting it until it works, of course, but you'll
need a safe zone in to do it, and you won't be able to break hide out in
the field, which means no looting or spell casting, mainly.
At around level 20 they both stop failing entirely, at that point you can
drop into a hot zone in like Howling Stones without invis with relative
safely (you'll need a low lag connection, and a little luck with the goo
spawns though).
There's a level-based component to aggro ranges and whether hide works on
any particular mob. You'll be good through most low and mid level areas,
through CoM and Guk I'd say, but any 50+ dungeon, Karnors on, will be a
deathtrap if your rogue is under 40. And even then, until he's mid 50s,
expect to leave a lot of corpses lying around.
> One elf race has hide or sneak as a racial ability is there an avantage to
> using this race?
Wood elves get racial sneak, halfings get both sneak and hide. They're
born with a skill of 50, so they improve your failure rates without the
trouble of leveling to ten.
A Brell worshipping rogue (dwarf, halfling or gnome), will not be kos to
the see invis mobs in the Hole, which comes in handy.
> Is there actually any advantage to equiping the rogue.
Nope.
> In creating the rogue are there any stats which will help the hide and
> sneak ability.
Nope.
Tim Smith
>I am thinking of creating a Rogue for the purpose of dragging corpses from
>dangerous areas. I have heard I only need to get the rogue to level 3 for
>hide and sneak.
>
> Is there any real advantage to trying to level the rogue beyond this
>if I will only be using them for this function.
>In other words what does incresed skill in sneak and hide give you.
Higher skill gives a better chance of hide or sneak working. If it
fails, it takes several seconds before you can try again. Since your
corpse-dragging rogue is not going to have enough hitpoints to take a
single hit in a high level dungeon, you really don't want to be
standing around for a couple minutes trying to get hidden.
>One elf race has hide or sneak as a racial ability is there an avantage to
>using this race?
Go with a Halfling...they get hide AND sneak as racial abilities. The
advantage of having these as racial abilities is that you get them
earlier this way, and at higher skill. E.g., halfling racial hide is
at skill 50. You'll have that at level 1 with a halfling a rogue. A
rogue that does not have hide as a racial ability will have to get to
something like level 10 to get their hide skill to 50.
Also, consider worshipping Brell. That will let you move freely in
the Hole, which is a popular place for corpse-dragging rogues. The
Hole has several monsters that see through hide and sneak, but those
things are friendly to Brell worshipers.
--Tim Smith
Tim Smith
>> Is there actually any advantage to equiping the rogue.
>
>Nope.
Well, a set of lockpicks comes in handy...you can open then entrance
to the Hole. Handy when you've got a big shaman inside who wants to
come out to SOW you, but is having trouble getting through the gap
(and since this is corpse recovery, no one has components for EB,
making it easy to die trying to get through the gap). (With a 50+ SOW
on, you can just stay in hide/sneak all the time and still move fast
enough to get things done quickly).
I don't know what skill that lock requires, but my 11 rogue can do it.
--Tim Smith
Just Jekke
wrote:
>remind you that bat and skelly see thru hide even I am 41 now
That's because you need to hold still, then hide AND sneak. At this
point, you can move without breaking hide and I have yet to see
anything that can see through sneak/hide as of level 47.
It took me a while to figure this out, too.
--Jekke
=====================
Playing on Torvonilous
Qiin Dred (Iksar Necromancer, 54)
Moulin Khmer (Dark Elf Rogue, 47)
Sheava Ebonrezzor (Dark Elf Cleric, 38)
Greebeux Goodkitty (Iksar Warrior, 27)
Persona (Dark Elf Enchanter, 4)
Tim Smith
>That's because you need to hold still, then hide AND sneak. At this
>point, you can move without breaking hide and I have yet to see
>anything that can see through sneak/hide as of level 47.
Bats in LGuk see through rogue hide. Some things in the Hole do, too
(which is why worshipping Brell is important when making a rogue for
Hole corpse recovery...the things that see you like Brell worshipers).
Also, I believe some things in SolB and/or SolA see through it.
--Tim Smith
Lannella / Busker
is a reeeally low skill level so he may be able to do it with the skill
maxed at that level.
"Tim Smith" <reply_i...@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
news:AFB2A427E2DAC7BA.6D43C53B...@lp.airnews.net...
Lannella / Busker
Lots of things in Hole see through it. Same with Bats - lots of types to.
Even with all the eBay'd twinks around, I'd give anyone at 41st the benefit
of the doubt that they've learned how to sneak and hide together.
>
> --Tim Smith
Dan Harmon
"William Sit" <si...@hongkong.com> wrote in message
news:9u1ieh$f8...@imsp212.netvigator.com...
> remind you that bat and skelly see thru hide even I am 41 now
Probably depends on the zone...hopefully you're wrong about SolB 'cause I
was hoping to have my 20 rogue be a big CR person there. Kobolds don't see
through.
My post was about The Hole though...and there are no bats or skellies there,
just to clear that up for the original poster in case he thought there was.
Dan Harmon
"Tim Smith" <reply_i...@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
news:D10899698F6A75AD.CCAAB94D...@lp.airnews.net...
The only thing in The Hole that might see thru Rogue Invis is the big
guy...ol' wassisface, the elemental. Master Yael? Even he may not, I can't
recall if I was sneak/hiding when I got near him.
Lannella / Busker
For the Hole, MANY mobs there SeeInvis. I can be hidden right at the
entrance and the first elementals will be scowling.
"Dan Harmon" <deha...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:Kg9N7.77675$uB.12...@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
James
Lannella / Busker wrote in message ...
>SolB bats can SeeInvis ... trust me (ouch).
Bats in general seems to see through. The Lower Guk bats are even more
of a hassle, being right along the usual path into the deeper areas of the
dungeon.
>For the Hole, MANY mobs there SeeInvis. I can be hidden right at the
>entrance and the first elementals will be scowling.
The mobs that can see through won't attack a Brell worshipper that's
never taken a faction hit there. Well, the mobs that can see through Hide,
anyways - there is a difference between sees invis and sees through Hide.
James
Dan Harmon
"Lannella / Busker" <lann...@NOT.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pz9N7.2096$xB4.2...@brie.direct.ca...
> SolB bats can SeeInvis ... trust me (ouch).
>
> For the Hole, MANY mobs there SeeInvis. I can be hidden right at the
> entrance and the first elementals will be scowling.
I consider The Hole /conning to be bugged anyway. If they're Ready to
Attack they should attack. They don't, therefore they're bugged. But no
big deal, hopefully it's VERY far down on their list of things to fix one
day...after all, when they fix it they may make it so my rogue is screwed.
:)
Lannella / Busker
"James" <jamesg...@home.com> wrote in message
news:8XcN7.30377$un4.5...@news1.telusplanet.net...
> there is a difference between sees invis and sees through Hide.
There is? I've never heard of a SeeInvis mob that couldn't see through Hide
as well. Hide is better than Invis and IVU together, and will get you past
any regular mob of either type, but a SeeInvis is a SeeInvis.
Can you give an example of a mob that will SeeHidden but not SeeInvis?
Dennis Francis Heffernan
| The mobs that can see through won't attack a Brell worshipper that's
|never taken a faction hit there. Well, the mobs that can see through Hide,
|anyways - there is a difference between sees invis and sees through Hide.
Actually there isn't -- but there is a difference between sees invis and
sees through SNEAK. You can Sneak past pretty much anything if it's not
facing you.
Dennis F. Heffernan EQ: Venture Fletcher(E'ci) dfra...@email.com
Montclair State U #include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"It's better some times if we don't get to touch our dreams."
-- Harry Chapin
Just Jekke
It took me until about then, but I did level fast.
Just Jekke
<lann...@NOT.hotmail.com> wrote:
>SolB bats can SeeInvis ... trust me (ouch).
>
>For the Hole, MANY mobs there SeeInvis. I can be hidden right at the
>entrance and the first elementals will be scowling.
Plenty of things that see invis do not see through sneak/hide. That's
rather the point of it.
Lannella / Busker
"Dennis Francis Heffernan" <dfra...@email.com> wrote in message ...
> On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:46:44 GMT, "James" <jamesg...@home.com> wrote:
>
> | The mobs that can see through won't attack a Brell worshipper that's
> |never taken a faction hit there. Well, the mobs that can see through
Hide,
> |anyways - there is a difference between sees invis and sees through Hide.
>
> Actually there isn't -- but there is a difference between sees invis and
> sees through SNEAK. You can Sneak past pretty much anything if it's not
> facing you.
>
I read somewhere one of the VI guys saying that *nothing* sees through
Sneak. I think what it does is effectively turn on the same non-agro flag
that all GM/Guides have, dependent upon the LoS of the mob.
Mark A. Rimer
news:iDiN7.2263$xB4.2...@brie.direct.ca...
One off the top of my head is Drolvargs. Drolvargs will aggro an Invis-by-
spell character if they're close enough and dawdle. A rogue can sneak
and hide (in front of) a Drolvarg all day and they won't notice.
Some critters that are "born" seeing Invis might not see a rogue
hiding. Any critter which CASTS See Invisible on itself and its
friends WILL see that rogue hiding, although you can still sneak
behind 'em.
StanMann
You mean just like the conning of the caimans in Oasis, and the dogs in
EK to druids/rangers?
We went through a list of "angry but non agro" mobs a while back.
StanMann
--
To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.To be
incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely
the domesticated.-- Trefor Thomas
James
Lannella / Busker wrote in message ...
>news:8XcN7.30377$un4.5...@news1.telusplanet.net...
>> there is a difference between sees invis and sees through Hide.
>
>There is? I've never heard of a SeeInvis mob that couldn't see through
Hide
>as well.
Kobolds in Sol B apparently see through Invis. My rogue can go anywhere
in the kobold areas of Sol B without detection, including the front arcs. I
can't verify that kobolds see through invis, but when I claimed they didn't
(based on my rogue's experiences) I was plastered here so I assume they do.
8)
>Can you give an example of a mob that will SeeHidden but not SeeInvis?
Not off the top of my head (Hide IS supposed to be superior), but check
a rogue-written guide to Hate. Something in the back of my head tells me
that there's first floor mobs that see through Hide, but not through one of
Invis/ITU.
James
Mark A. Rimer
> Kobolds in Sol B apparently see through Invis. My rogue can go
anywhere
> in the kobold areas of Sol B without detection, including the front arcs.
I
> can't verify that kobolds see through invis, but when I claimed they
didn't
> (based on my rogue's experiences) I was plastered here so I assume they
do.
> 8)
That's the rub. Some stuff is "born" seeing invisible. Hide may or may
not work on them. Kobolds in Sol B do NOT see through invis by
default, but many of 'em have a friendly neighborhood shaman come
by and cast See Invisible on them. That spell sees through everything.
If you're lucky and can stay out of the front arc you can still sneak,
however, but even monks can do that.
It's just like the frogs in Guk. None of 'em are spawned seeing
invisible except some of the named (frenzied, assassin, etc), but many
times if you happen to be near, for instance, an Urd Ghoul Wizard
you'll see one of his buffs being See Invisible. And he'll cast it
on all his friends nearby, too.
Dan Harmon
"Mark A. Rimer" <locu...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:QsxN7.13983$S93.5...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> That's the rub. Some stuff is "born" seeing invisible. Hide may or may
> not work on them. Kobolds in Sol B do NOT see through invis by
> default, but many of 'em have a friendly neighborhood shaman come
> by and cast See Invisible on them. That spell sees through everything.
I don't think you are correct here. I'll have to test it out tonight if I
remember. I'm PRETTY sure that ALL creatures in SolB see through invis/camo
by default. Now, in Sol *A* what you said is true for sure (for goblins
anyway).
They may see thru hide as well...I get the feeling that what makes rogue
invis so much better is the sneak component. Hide lowers the chance of
being seen a little...sneak lowers it a hell of a lot more. Add them
together and....
James
Dan Harmon wrote in message ...
>
>"Mark A. Rimer" <locu...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:QsxN7.13983$S93.5...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
>
>> That's the rub. Some stuff is "born" seeing invisible. Hide may or may
>> not work on them. Kobolds in Sol B do NOT see through invis by
>> default, but many of 'em have a friendly neighborhood shaman come
>> by and cast See Invisible on them. That spell sees through everything.
Yes, it does. Which doesn't explain how my rogue can walk up to all the
non-named kobolds, and I do mean ALL of them, from the front and pet them on
the nose with no problems. Sneak won't help me in the front arc, and it
certainly doesn't help me at a range of zero point zero.
>They may see thru hide as well...I get the feeling that what makes rogue
>invis so much better is the sneak component. Hide lowers the chance of
>being seen a little...sneak lowers it a hell of a lot more. Add them
>together and....
I'm convinced that rogue Hide is just plain coded differently, and Sneak
doesn't enter into it. When zoning into Sol B to a train without bats in it,
I'd just jam on Hide and stand still, and nothing would see me. Even if
stuff was lingering at the zone (like kobold shamans buffing other parts of
the train), it wouldn't see me - so the "grace period" after zoning had
certainly expired.
James
Just Jekke
<lann...@NOT.hotmail.com> wrote:
>I read somewhere one of the VI guys saying that *nothing* sees through
>Sneak. I think what it does is effectively turn on the same non-agro flag
>that all GM/Guides have, dependent upon the LoS of the mob.
Nah. GM/Guides still get faction-based messages. Sneaking rogues get
"Indifferent," meaning that they're not seen.
Did a test tonight. Gorenaire sees through sneak/hide if you're
directly in front of her. Otherwise, you're indifferent to her.
--Jekke
=====================
Playing on Torvonilous
Qiin Dred (Iksar Necromancer, 54)
Moulin Khmer (Dark Elf Rogue, 48)
Sheava Ebonrezzor (Dark Elf Cleric, 39)
Dan Harmon
>
> "Mark A. Rimer" <locu...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:QsxN7.13983$S93.5...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
>
> > That's the rub. Some stuff is "born" seeing invisible. Hide may or may
> > not work on them. Kobolds in Sol B do NOT see through invis by
> > default, but many of 'em have a friendly neighborhood shaman come
> > by and cast See Invisible on them. That spell sees through everything.
>
> I don't think you are correct here. I'll have to test it out tonight if I
> remember. I'm PRETTY sure that ALL creatures in SolB see through
invis/camo
> by default. Now, in Sol *A* what you said is true for sure (for goblins
> anyway).
I tested it last night. Kobolds saw my very red camo'd druid from their
usual aggro range.
Lannella / Busker
"Dan Harmon" <deha...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message ...
> "Dan Harmon" <deha...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message...
> > "Mark A. Rimer" <locu...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message...
> > > That's the rub. Some stuff is "born" seeing invisible. Hide may or
may
> > > not work on them. Kobolds in Sol B do NOT see through invis by
> > > default, but many of 'em have a friendly neighborhood shaman come
> > > by and cast See Invisible on them. That spell sees through
everything.
> >
> > I don't think you are correct here. I'll have to test it out tonight if
I
> > remember. I'm PRETTY sure that ALL creatures in SolB see through
> invis/camo
> > by default. Now, in Sol *A* what you said is true for sure (for goblins
> > anyway).
>
> I tested it last night. Kobolds saw my very red camo'd druid from their
> usual aggro range.
I know for a fact that they don't all See Invis. I've snuck past SO many
Kobolds in there that there is no way in the world they are See Invis. And
this is not affected by the Sneak's LoS-variance. I've been *right* in
front of them.
The local-shaman-buffing-his-friends theory is very sound and true with this
kind of zone.
Jason Willoughby
> guy...ol' wassisface, the elemental. Master Yael? Even he may not, I can't
> recall if I was sneak/hiding when I got near him.
And when was the last time you actually tried this with a rogue kos to
the elementals? I usually can't even get through the entrance hall to
drag corpses up the drop off, much less down to Yael. Maybe with Luclin
(/drool Shadow)...
Jason Willoughby
> Did a test tonight. Gorenaire sees through sneak/hide if you're
> directly in front of her. Otherwise, you're indifferent to her.
Over the Halloween weekend, with all the incredibly fast spawn rates, we
ended up with two Talendors up in Skyfire. One was walking the normal beat
up by VP, the other was "homeless", no wander path and he didn't go back to
his spawn point. He'd just hang out wherever he was pulled and corpse
camp.
Made for an incredible sneak only CRs and I got some great screen shots
too...
Lannella / Busker
"Jason Willoughby" <jwil...@gate.net> wrote in message
news:gn2au9...@gate.net...
Yup, I was just down by the entrance last week and those Elems sure as
shooting saw through Hide.
Dan Harmon
This thread is about a CR rogue. I'm staying on topic so your point is
moot.
Dan Harmon
"Lannella / Busker" <lann...@NOT.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8O0O7.3772$xB4.3...@brie.direct.ca...
As mentioned before, The Hole is very buggy when it comes to /con. In that
zone you can pretty much just ignore it altogether. Either you're attacked
or you're not.
Ratmen and undead will kill a Halfling rogue who worships Brell, and they
won't see through rogue invis. I know that said rogue is KOS to Yael, but I
don't happen to know if he sees through sneak/hide (rogue invis).