What is wrong with the unpopular zones?
Ecwfrk
zones people seem to hate going to.
Example. Dagnors Cauldron. Very few people hunt here except for the few
camping for item dropping spawns. It more of just a resting point for
those hunting in Kedge or Unrest.
To fix it I think they should get rid of all the green things (cauldron
rats, scalded rats, serpents, ect.) that are just annoyances. Add a
couple more camps (with all the rocky pits it would be easy to put some
isolated camps that would be good hunting where you also wouldn't agro
too many things outsode the camp). increase the spawn rates of the
wandering MoBs and the MoBs in the water by about 2 (It's very hard to
find one of 5 or 6 gobs in the water), clear up the waqter a little more
so there's a bit more invisibility (would also make a good training
ground for hunting in Kedge).
What are some other(serious) ideas for improving other zones (like, what
would make people actually walk to Perma?)
Adar
Ecwfrk <ecw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.131f81c64...@news.usenetserver.com...
> One thing I would like to see is what people think is wrong with the
> zones people seem to hate going to.
>
> Example. Dagnors Cauldron.
Some random zones that suck:
DC- Only one camp, everything else that gives XP is underwater and you can't
run. You also can't pull out of range of wandering spawns, because you'll
mostly either take obscene falling damage or attract another gobbo or 8. The
camp itself is nice, though.
Befallen- Terrible dungeon design, keys, trains of death for everyone of a
level to hunt there.
The Gorge- Can support 1-2 groups at eyes, 1-2 more at entrance. Trying to
hunt anywhere else gets you killed. Now spawns a level 35 eye at the top,
just for fun.
Najena- Death, death, and more death. 20'th level mobs everywhere except the
ones worth looting; those are 30+ and not really soloable before 40 or so
(for a caster). Everything casts (fun.) Now spawns a random level 40 NPC
that quads for 80.
MM- What Lower Guk would be like if zone design was just a shade worse...
Perma- Hordes of level 19 goblins that see invis, most of the zone is
unitemized, soloing=death before the goblins are so green they dont matter
anymore. Woohoo.
Runnyeye- A masterpiece of a zone, filled with alternate waves of level 5
goblins, level 20 goblins, and level 35 evil eyes (I believe I've covered
this one already.)
Brudo (E'ci)
Loredaeron (E'ci)
K. Laisathit
Ecwfrk <ecw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>What are some other(serious) ideas for improving other zones (like, what
>would make people actually walk to Perma?)
Some zones are more problematic or the root cause is technical.
Mistmoore for instance is one f****k up zone because of the
pathing and see through wall problem. Despite that though, MM
is a very rich zone in terms of loots. MM is not a popular
zone, but it's not a complete dog either. Runnyeye has several
problems. The mob placement is probably the most important one.
The top level has very low level mobs. As you go down, you
don't see a gradual shift in power but an astonishing jump
in mob levels with dazed guards. Throw in the very red
Borxx who spawns quite frequently, you essentially have a
zone where players get killed on a 30 minutes cycle. Players
at the right level (early 20s or so) don't go there because
to find mobs of the right level they have to go down deep.
Going down deep mean dying to Borxx every 30 minutes or so.
Permafrost is not a very bad zone in general. However, the
last time I was there, pathing is a real problem. This can
cause green death in that aggro green fights you. Five seconds
later it runs, after 3 steps it teleports away. Even snare
doesn't help. Another 10 seconds later, it's back with about
20 of its friends. The trick to Permafrost is finding the
location where you don't have to fight green aggro and the
mob level isn't too high. Alas, that's one thing very wrong
with Permafrost. In a general area of a few feet apart, you
could have mobs of very different levels.
Over all though, you can make a zone popular by careful
itemization. MM is a good example of a problematic zone
that is not at all deserted because of the item potential.
One of the most important problem that when solved could
in theory make many dungeons functional again, pathing.
Currently, Verant resorts to using all the dirty tricks
to mask the problem. Summoning mobs, see through wall,
etc. All it does is to make some otherwise marginal
zones practically unplayable. Note that pathing is a
universal problem, but its effect is more pronounced
in certain dungeons. If the dungeon is laid out to
cover large area without intertwining path, chances are
the pathing problem won't be a factor. Guks and Soluseks
never have this problem.
If you really want to fix some of these zones. You basically
have two choices. Re-design the dungeons so as to minimize
the potential for pathing problem. Or, fix the pathing
algorithm. I don't see either of the two being possible
any time soon. So, what to do next? Beef up item potential.
Now, there is a serious drawback to the last. Chances are,
you won't make these places any more popular among casual
players. The item harvesters would end up flocking to
these places as a result.
Later...
MiF
What is wrong is the same thing that is wrong with all unpopular zones -
there is no loot to camp. That is what brings high level players to Lower
Guk and Nagafen's Lair. That is what brings mid-level players to Solusek's
Eye. Player has to be able to get experience and camp some item at the same
time. If spawns are too rare or there are no items, no one will come to
that place. Good examples of rare monsters with loot are Dagnor's Cauldron
and the new Paw. Of course, if there are no zones with loot at a certain
level, the players will stay where ever it is easier to get experience.
This is true of newbie zones and zones under level 25.
The problem with Permafrost is that it is too far from everything. Evil
races have especially hard time hunting there. There is nowhere to bind for
them and no one to teleport them in case of death. Hell, no one to teleport
them there in the first place.
Manr, level 50 Dark Elf Shadow Knight on Povar.
"Ecwfrk" <ecw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.131f81c64...@news.usenetserver.com...
> One thing I would like to see is what people think is wrong with the
> zones people seem to hate going to.
>
> Example. Dagnors Cauldron. Very few people hunt here except for the few
> camping for item dropping spawns. It more of just a resting point for
> those hunting in Kedge or Unrest.
> To fix it I think they should get rid of all the green things (cauldron
> rats, scalded rats, serpents, ect.) that are just annoyances. Add a
> couple more camps (with all the rocky pits it would be easy to put some
> isolated camps that would be good hunting where you also wouldn't agro
> too many things outsode the camp). increase the spawn rates of the
> wandering MoBs and the MoBs in the water by about 2 (It's very hard to
> find one of 5 or 6 gobs in the water), clear up the waqter a little more
> so there's a bit more invisibility (would also make a good training
> ground for hunting in Kedge).
>
LoquorLatn
The Ocean of Tears would be a fun zone for many levels, but it's impossible to
find a group there. Aqua goblin camp on the oracles island is an example.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=
Odio orbem, si omni locutus summus latinam, utinam possit melior!
"Practice makes perfect, perfect is a fault, but fault lines change..." -R.E.M.
Aaed
<ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>The Gorge- Can support 1-2 groups at eyes, 1-2 more at entrance. Trying to
>hunt anywhere else gets you killed. Now spawns a level 35 eye at the top,
>just for fun.
If you're talking about Lord Soptyvr (he drops a lens for a quest in
Paineel) he's level 30. I was in there the other night and he popped
and conned even.
Casts an AoE Cancel - the entire group lost all bufs.
Aaed
E.Marr
abatt...@netscape.net
> What are some other(serious) ideas for improving other zones (like, what
> would make people actually walk to Perma?)
people don't want to walk to permafrost, thats the problem (mainly). the loot
is fairly decent there, and the mobs aren't uber difficult (unless you start
playing with the giants :-). other than the distance the biggest problem is
the uber-aggressive greens.
--
josh
Ecwfrk
m...@pobox.com.no-spam says...
>
> What is wrong is the same thing that is wrong with all unpopular zones -
> there is no loot to camp. That is what brings high level players to Lower
> Guk and Nagafen's Lair. That is what brings mid-level players to Solusek's
> Eye. Player has to be able to get experience and camp some item at the same
> time.
> If spawns are too rare or there are no items, no one will come to
> that place.
Sounds like in many instances it's not the zone that is the problem. It's
the players with that kind of mentality that they need good loot and easy
XP. Luckily that isn't proven out by the 80 people dodging sand
giants and bad spectre pulls to camp crocs in Oasis. Or people like me
hunting the tidal lords in DC. Or the many other places with merely
adequate XP and loot.
> Good examples of rare monsters with loot are Dagnor's Cauldron
> and the new Paw. Of course, if there are no zones with loot at a certain
> level, the players will stay where ever it is easier to get experience.
> This is true of newbie zones and zones under level 25.
After 25 you should be pulling at least 1 or 2p from most things you
kill. You'll also be getting lots of words and runes to sell, and then
there's the other drops from many things at that level. It adds up pretty
quickly. Sure, you won't be buying SMRs at level 30 with that loot, but
you'll have enough cash to cover your needs.
> The problem with Permafrost is that it is too far from everything. Evil
> races have especially hard time hunting there. There is nowhere to bind for
> them and no one to teleport them in case of death. Hell, no one to teleport
> them there in the first place.
Dark Elves, Ogres, & Trolls have problems getting past the guard to get
to perma only if for some stupid reason they're running around with no
one who can invis. Everyone else is fine. It's not hard to get faction in
Qeynos (hour or 2 in BB) high enough to allow binding there. If you die
you merely have to dodge Cros and Holly in QH and get an Invis from
someone to get past the one guard.
And as for telports, why can't people walk? It's not that hard to do. I
go from Erudin or Qeynos to as far as Unrest 3 or more times a week. I've
never needed (or asked for) a teleport. I rarely even have SoW. It only
takes 45 minutes (And don't tell me you don't have time to run for 45
minutes to camp something on a 60 minute (or more) spawn). That, and
since you're probably getting a tele to NK, you probably have SoW too.
Perma is no more than 20 minutes away. Of course if your main concern is
rocketing to 50 in as little time and with as little effort as possible
you won't be bothering with Perma at all anyway.
Ecwfrk
loquo...@aol.com says...
> You've all left out Kerra Ridge. Which is supposedly going to be updated soon.
>
> The Ocean of Tears would be a fun zone for many levels, but it's impossible to
> find a group there. Aqua goblin camp on the oracles island is an example.
Another great example. I can't figure out why casters don't have this
island camped 24/7. A couple mages and an enchanter would rule this isle
and the XP is great. I also rarely see anyone else on Aviak Isle. And
I've had Nili all to myself for 3 days (gating and swimming between the
2).
Nan Wang
> Ecwfrk <ecw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.131f81c64...@news.usenetserver.com...
>> One thing I would like to see is what people think is wrong with the
>> zones people seem to hate going to.
>>
>> Example. Dagnors Cauldron.
> Some random zones that suck:
> DC- Only one camp, everything else that gives XP is underwater and you can't
> run. You also can't pull out of range of wandering spawns, because you'll
> mostly either take obscene falling damage or attract another gobbo or 8. The
> camp itself is nice, though.
DC has two camps, goblin and orc. Actually three if you count the fantastic
four camp.
Johnathan P. Gaetz
ecw...@hotmail.com says...
>
>One thing I would like to see is what people think is wrong with the
>zones people seem to hate going to.
>
>camping for item dropping spawns. It more of just a resting point for
>those hunting in Kedge or Unrest.
>To fix it I think they should get rid of all the green things (cauldron
>rats, scalded rats, serpents, ect.) that are just annoyances. Add a
>couple more camps (with all the rocky pits it would be easy to put some
>isolated camps that would be good hunting where you also wouldn't agro
>too many things outsode the camp). increase the spawn rates of the
>wandering MoBs and the MoBs in the water by about 2 (It's very hard to
>find one of 5 or 6 gobs in the water), clear up the waqter a little more
>so there's a bit more invisibility (would also make a good training
>ground for hunting in Kedge).
>
>would make people actually walk to Perma?)
Split Paw is a deathtrap, plain and simple. I don't remember the
pathing issues being as bad as they are now back when I could walk
through the place virtually unmolested at level 24. Back then it
was filled with little groups. Now you have anywhere from one to
4 groups trying to compete for the same 14 mobs (16 to 18 if you
count the bridge pulls) before the bridge, and the occasional
high-level group that banzais straight to Ishva.
Paw has *MAJOR* pathing issues. All of the mobs are tied so
close together that you usually wind up pulling more than you
bargained for anyway, until you learn the more obvious pathing
abnormalities. For instance, sit in the alcove before the double
doors. There are two gnolls by the double doors, and one closer
by on your left hand side. Pull the near one on the left and it
runs over to the double doors, then to the alcove. Everything heads
to those double doors before going anywhere else from within that
big room. And that's just the *start*.
Virtually *nobody* goes past the (first) bridge with any intention
of doing anything but fighting ishva's room. At least not more
than twice.
I have yet to see any group move into/through Paw without training
themselves, and I mean with half of Paw. Sure, they keep dropping
the caster HPs, but when you cast at a gnoll and suddenly 20+ gnolls
start showing up in a steady stream from who-the-hell-knows-where
(everywhere, apparently, judging by the sheer volume), its time to
evac and go back invisibly to pull/ress corpses.
I've tried in some *very* solid groups to move past the bridge.
The longest we lasted was about 2 hours of sort of a rolling
thunder type approach (moving slowly through the zone as stuff
behind us popped and we killed stuff further in.) We'd gotten
to the overly large room (where the mob that now drops the ruby
pendant now spawns). We'd just finished a hard fight against
approximately 6 gnolls (started out 3, but gnolls kept trickling
in for some reason.) About 30 seconds after the last mob dropped,
our magician started getting hit by some invisible mob. Of course,
the anal dispensation hit the rotary oscillator. I (being able to
feign) was the only one to live when at least 30 gnolls showed up.
I've never seen so many mobs in one place in my entire time playing
EQ.
Skren - Erolissi Marr