Necro "nerf"
Lokari
the 1/28 patch message several times, and I'm having trouble
understanding how this constitutes a nerf (I don't play a necro, so
perhaps that's why I don't understand).
Could someone explain clearly why this is a nerf?
--
www.enteract.com/~lokari
"No one of consequence"
Dragonlord
give the same delay that is a bad thing. If you give the same abitlities
that a necro had as far as pets to a mage then that is necro nerf. What
people don't understand is that a necro is one of the intentional solo
classes, created by verant to BE able to solo and solo well, if they take
away the delay factor they slow down pet thus hurting the necro. Also if
you are playing another class and you usually group with necro and pet you
will have to do more damage and maybe take more as pet will do less over
time.
Lokari <lok...@enteract.com> wrote in message
news:38935288...@nntp.enteract.com...
Marc Fuller
>
> I've seen several people complain about the nerf to necros. I've read
> the 1/28 patch message several times, and I'm having trouble
> understanding how this constitutes a nerf (I don't play a necro, so
> perhaps that's why I don't understand).
>
> Could someone explain clearly why this is a nerf?
>
> --
> www.enteract.com/~lokari
> "No one of consequence"
Necromancer pets used to use the delay of the weapon, instead of their default
delay of 27 or 30. (I'm not sure which. It wasn't huge, but they weren't
speedy, either.) Thus, you could give a Necro a level 1 Summoned Dagger, with a
delay of 21, and speed them up a lot. This would then stack with the
Augument/Intinsify Death spells, which have a built-in Haste effect, as well as
any Enchanter speed buffs you could get. Thus, a skeleton pet with a steel and
fine steel dagger and Augument Death was a whiling engine of destruction, and
the same pet with Enchanter support became a rogue blender set on "Frappe."
As of the last patch, pets no longer use the delay of the weapon, only their own
default delay. This dramaticly reduces a skeleton pet's attack speed, even with
full buffs. Personally, I don't think they're totally crippled, they just
aren't as mind-bogglingly deadly as they used to be. However, they *are* less
powerful than they were on Thursday. At the same time, Magician pets can now
dual wield, which increases their effective damage potential. Since Magician
pets never could wield a weapon, they were never able to benefit from the double
dagger trick, so this to Magicians, this change is only for the good. Many
Necros see this as Magicians getting an upgrade, while Necros get screwed,
despite the fact that Elementals were *always* supposed to be able to dual
wield, and never have until now.
How this will all fall out eventually, remains to be seen. I doubt that
Magicians will lose the ability to summon weapons, but I wouldn't be totally
suprised if the Sword of Runes is changed. It currently procs Ward Summoned.
In the hands of a PC, it is an interesting, but mostly useless toy, just like
anything else a Magician can summon. However, in the hands of an NPC, including
pets, weapon procs will allegedly go off against any target, and at any level.
Supposedly, you can hand a Sword of Runes to a 1st level Necromancer pet, and it
will occaisionally proc it's 35 point DD against any target. Up till now, this
hasn't been a huge concern, because you still had to find a level 29 Magician
who had bothered to buy the spell, and who would give a 1st level character the
time of day, much less a summoned sword. However, in the hands of a high-level
dual wielding Elemental, the sword's proc may actually be something to reckon
with, especially if it really does go off against any target.
(Please note, that I say allegedly and supposedly because I've never been in a
situation to test it, not because it doesn't actually happen. The only proc'ing
weapons I've owned are a Water Crystal Staff, a Staff of Writhing, and several
Tentacle Whips, none of which are something you'd normally consider handing to a
pet.)
Marc Fuller
Sean
weapon with delay lower than 31. This is no longer possible. Hence the
nerf.
--
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"I tell you, there's nothing we're afraid to nerf. :)" - Brad McQuaid;
Everquest Producer
Lokari wrote in message <38935288...@nntp.enteract.com>...
Dragonlord
> "Dragonlord" <da...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
> >If you take away the delay that a good weapons gives pet and make any
weapon
> >give the same delay that is a bad thing.
>
>
> >If you give the same abitlities
> >that a necro had as far as pets to a mage then that is necro nerf.
>
> nerf of another.
Nerfed advantage, necros used to be more powerful because of the pet issue
now they aren't if you are the most powerful and somebody is given more to
catch you it can be perceived as a nerf
>
> >What people don't understand is that a necro is one of the intentional
> >solo classes, created by verant to BE able to solo and solo well
>
> Verant statements?
Brad and Gordon, go back through posts
Valka
arming pets that messed up their damage/delay ratios. It always took
the best delay ratio (ie. fists vs whatever weapon) and the best
damage of the two. This was done initially because people were arming
otherwise tough npcs with crappy weapons and then attacking them.
(much less damage output with the crap weapon).
As a result, Necros were able to equip their pets with weapons and
get some pretty phenomenal results. Frankly, this issue has been
around for a long time. I don't think many people seriously thought
this would stay this way forever.
*Unfortunately*, a few other Necro abilities were somewhat nerfed
to somewhat counterbalance that bug. If the delay exploit is really
fixed, then I would say Necro's are due to have some of those
abilities returned to them.
Of course I don't work for Brad,so who knows what he thinks.
-Valka/Xegony
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Ewen
Dragonlord wrote in message ...
:If you take away the delay that a good weapons gives pet and make any weapon
:give the same delay that is a bad thing. If you give the same abitlities
:that a necro had as far as pets to a mage then that is necro nerf. What
:people don't understand is that a necro is one of the intentional solo
:away the delay factor they slow down pet thus hurting the necro. Also if
:you are playing another class and you usually group with necro and pet you
:will have to do more damage and maybe take more as pet will do less over
:time.
Very well said!
Lokari
>If you take away the delay that a good weapons gives pet and make any weapon
>give the same delay that is a bad thing.
Ok, I can see that.
>If you give the same abitlities
>that a necro had as far as pets to a mage then that is necro nerf.
Sorry, I can't accept that. Improving one class does not constitute a
nerf of another.
>What people don't understand is that a necro is one of the intentional
>solo classes, created by verant to BE able to solo and solo well
Where does this information come from? Can it be found in any official
Verant statements?
Lokari
>As of the last patch, pets no longer use the delay of the weapon, only their own
>default delay. This dramaticly reduces a skeleton pet's attack speed, even with
>full buffs.
Gotcha, that does indeed sound nerfish.
>Many Necros see this as Magicians getting an upgrade, while Necros get
>screwed, despite the fact that Elementals were *always* supposed to be
>able to dual wield, and never have until now.
So, at least part of the complaint stems from the usual class jealousy
or rivalry.
>How this will all fall out eventually, remains to be seen.
I had the impression from the patch message that Verant expects it
will need future tuning.
Rick Russell
Lokari <lok...@enteract.com> wrote:
> understanding how this constitutes a nerf (I don't play a necro, so
> perhaps that's why I don't understand).
The attack rate of NPCs, including necro pets, is determined by the
weapon they wield. If the weapon has a long delay, they attack at the
standard open-hand delay (32? 37? I don't remember.)
But if the weapon has a short delay, they attack faster. Since they
have a natural damage bonus over and above the weapon they wield,
giving tiny weapons to necromancer pets allowed them to attack at much
higher speed for full damage.
In addition, necro pets can dual-wield if they have two different 1H
weapons. But other NPCs and pets can't, because there is a bug that
prevents dual-wield from working _unless_ the creature is carrying two
different weapons. Magician pets can't wield weapons (losing their
dual-wield), and few (no?) NPCs spawn with two weapons in hand. And
nonhumanoids can't wield the weapons at all.
If you ever see an enemy NPC wielding a dagger or other small weapon,
beware. You will find that their hit rate is much higher, but their
damage is not any lower. If they are wielding two different weapons,
watch out, they will also dual-wield for more attacks.
The correct solution to this problem is:
(1) Fix the dual-wield bug and allow all pets and NPCs to dual-wield
properly with their open hands, if they have that ability.
(2) Fix the attack rate of all NPCs at the standard open-hand weapon
delay, including pets and NPCs, no matter what weapon they wield, if
any.
(3) Reduce the base damage of all monsters to accomodate the new,
fixed dual-wield capability of the warrior types.
Unfortunately, because Verant didn't notice the dual-wield bug in
testing, the base attack damage of warrior-like monsters was upped to
match and exceed players, who have working dual-wield. If they allowed
NPCs to dual-wield now _without_ adjusting the base damage of hundreds
of monsters, they would effectively create uber-NPCs which were
exceedingly dangerous.
Since they are unwilling to go back and do the legwork to fix this
problem, they opted to leave the dual-wield bug in, and simply allow
magicians to equip their pets with two different 1H weapons, just like
necros.
It's a nerf, because now necro pets can't take advantage of the lower
attack speed of small weapons. Even if they had fixed the bug
properly, it would still be a nerf, in that necro pets would be less
powerful. But in this case it's a nerf that is at least trying to fix
a legitimate bug.
Rick R.
Alx
Verant must have been well aware of the Necro pet 'bug' for a
long time and did nothing.
As I've said before, once a change or 'bug' is in game for a
long time, it becomes a part of the game and should not be changed.
If Verant had picked up on a problem a week or two after a patch,
then fine, fix it. But after many months, it should be left alone
or other compensations be made.
Nerfs are a result of poor planning, testing, management and design.
Alex
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Remove the Z if replying by email.
"Lokari" <lok...@enteract.com> wrote in message
news:38939e8d...@nntp.enteract.com...
Jeremy Music
>
>How this will all fall out eventually, remains to be seen. I doubt that
>Magicians will lose the ability to summon weapons, but I wouldn't be totally
>suprised if the Sword of Runes is changed. It currently procs Ward Summoned.
>In the hands of a PC, it is an interesting, but mostly useless toy, just like
>anything else a Magician can summon. However, in the hands of an NPC, including
>pets, weapon procs will allegedly go off against any target, and at any level.
Since the patch I've given many pets (it's been a rough weekend so far) the
swords, mainly for the looks but partially to see if their spell would go
off. I have yet to see the weapons proc in hours on hours of solid
fighting. I won't go so far as to say they won't, but they haven't yet for
me. I am looking forward to fighting something summoned and seeing if they
suddenly start going off.
By the way, the summoned spear is primary hand only apparently, meaning to
get a pet to dual wield with a spear the spear has to be in the first slot
in the trade window. And the pets won't dual wield summoned spears.
Now magicians need a 1-hand blunt summon (yeah, I know, 44), and a scythe
(because that really is the coolest looking weapon to give your pet).
I can see my routine at 44. Summon gate-on-a-stick, summon pet, proc
gate-on-a-stick, hand stick to pet...
J
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Freek
ability 9 months from release, they automatically make an excuse that
it was a Bug?
Least they got you brainwashed.
Same crap will happen in future, when they start nerfing other classes
abilities and spells they will post the same crap, it was a bug.
It is an easy way to attempt to explain to the Player base on the nerfs,
rather then saying, we need to slow you powergamers who friggin
play 24/7 down.
"Valka" <fordpN...@slip.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:16477d22...@usw-ex0107-043.remarq.com...
Marc Fuller
>
> Marc Fuller <kat...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >How this will all fall out eventually, remains to be seen. I doubt that
> >Magicians will lose the ability to summon weapons, but I wouldn't be totally
> >suprised if the Sword of Runes is changed. It currently procs Ward Summoned.
> >In the hands of a PC, it is an interesting, but mostly useless toy, just like
> >anything else a Magician can summon. However, in the hands of an NPC, including
> >pets, weapon procs will allegedly go off against any target, and at any level.
>
> Since the patch I've given many pets (it's been a rough weekend so far) the
> swords, mainly for the looks but partially to see if their spell would go
> off. I have yet to see the weapons proc in hours on hours of solid
> fighting. I won't go so far as to say they won't, but they haven't yet for
> me. I am looking forward to fighting something summoned and seeing if they
> suddenly start going off.
>
> By the way, the summoned spear is primary hand only apparently, meaning to
> get a pet to dual wield with a spear the spear has to be in the first slot
> in the trade window. And the pets won't dual wield summoned spears.
>
> Now magicians need a 1-hand blunt summon (yeah, I know, 44), and a scythe
> (because that really is the coolest looking weapon to give your pet).
>
> I can see my routine at 44. Summon gate-on-a-stick, summon pet, proc
> gate-on-a-stick, hand stick to pet...
>
I thought that the Rods were expendable, meaning, use the charge and the item
vanishes. I'm not sure why this would be so, other than possibly for helping
Clerics to use it to power up for a Ressurection, since they don't need to worry
about disposing of the Lore rod after using it.
Marc Fuller
Jeremy Music
>Jeremy Music wrote:
>>
>> I can see my routine at 44. Summon gate-on-a-stick, summon pet, proc
>> gate-on-a-stick, hand stick to pet...
>
>I thought that the Rods were expendable, meaning, use the charge and the item
>vanishes. I'm not sure why this would be so, other than possibly for helping
>Clerics to use it to power up for a Ressurection, since they don't need to worry
>about disposing of the Lore rod after using it.
>
They may be. I'll tell you when my magician gets to 44. :)
As a follow up to my post, the rune sword does _not_ proc, even against
summoned stuff. I spent some time in lavastorm letting my pet beat on fire
elementals with 2 rune swords and it didn't proc once. This is somewhat
disappointing, but then again it wouldn't have been all that useful anyway.
I had to search to find something summoned to test it on.
Tearsum
>Marc Fuller <kat...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>As of the last patch, pets no longer use the delay of the weapon, only their own
>>default delay. This dramaticly reduces a skeleton pet's attack speed, even with
>>full buffs.
>
>Gotcha, that does indeed sound nerfish.
>
>>Many Necros see this as Magicians getting an upgrade, while Necros get
>>screwed, despite the fact that Elementals were *always* supposed to be
>>able to dual wield, and never have until now.
>
>So, at least part of the complaint stems from the usual class jealousy
>or rivalry.
Maybe.. but think of it this way. All this time, Verant has known
about this bug and has BALANCED classes against it. They gave Mage
pet's spells to bring them up to par with Necromancer's pets.
They then decide Whoops! bug (only they knew about the delay issue and
have posted about it in the past and never really mentioned its
overbalancing effects) so I don't really consider it a bug.
What does this do?
Well they add an option to Magicians pet's to do even MORE damage at
higher levels. Magicians say oh we should have always been able to do
that. Funny I never see any elementals in dungeons carrying weapons
(but maybe Im wrong about that) Necros which have always had dual
wield now have a significant reduction in damage.
So following Verants previous line, they have given something to Mages
and taken away from Necros now to allow the Mage pet to outstrip the
necro pet (whether this was their intention or not)
(Sorry, if you had a class and Verant decided to bump another class up
to bring it even with you, then later on decided to weaken you even
more and give that class an additional bonus, you would be pissed too)
And you know what? They did this all in the name of the desparity
between the melee class and the pets. Yeah right.
They still haven't explained how giving the already badass mage pet an
extra attack per round makes this any better.
I think the necro's got screwed in a hard way and the issue really is
more about solo-ability than anything else.
Hell my primary class is a warrior and even though I didn't like that
fact that a pet alone could beat me at higher levels, I think Verant
should have taken steps to make me more effective at higher levels as
in reality, the Pet Vs. Melee issue actually brings into light just
how big the gap starts to become between melee classes and NPC in
general.
I cringe to think of how big the gap will be at levels 51-75.
Sorry Necro's and Mages out there, I hope Verant comes to its senses
and takes a closer look at Melee classes instead of degrading yours.
p.s.
Sorry, but crippling blow.. nice token skill .. If I get to beserk,
the fight is pretty much over and an extra critical really isn't going
to make it that much better.. especially at the later levels when the
gap between warriors and monsters is so high.
Nice try though Verant this one needs work however.
Tearsum
Troll Warrior
Rodcet Nife
Syshan Elfstone
Tearsum <no-spam-ste...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:3895de4d....@news.flash.net...
> :
>
> >Marc Fuller <kat...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >>As of the last patch, pets no longer use the delay of the weapon, only
their own
> >>default delay. This dramaticly reduces a skeleton pet's attack speed,
even with
> >>full buffs.
Aye, it does reduce the attack speed, but how's this for ridiculous.. Give a
warrior a FS dagger, and see if he can do 55 pts with it, without scoring a
critical
> >Gotcha, that does indeed sound nerfish.
> >
> >>Many Necros see this as Magicians getting an upgrade, while Necros get
> >>screwed, despite the fact that Elementals were *always* supposed to be
> >>able to dual wield, and never have until now.
> >
> >So, at least part of the complaint stems from the usual class jealousy
> >or rivalry.
>
> Maybe.. but think of it this way. All this time, Verant has known
> about this bug and has BALANCED classes against it. They gave Mage
> pet's spells to bring them up to par with Necromancer's pets.
Which never brought them up to par with necro pets that could dual wield for
full damage with super fast weapons.
> They then decide Whoops! bug (only they knew about the delay issue and
> have posted about it in the past and never really mentioned its
> overbalancing effects) so I don't really consider it a bug.
>
> What does this do?
>
> Well they add an option to Magicians pet's to do even MORE damage at
> higher levels. Magicians say oh we should have always been able to do
> that. Funny I never see any elementals in dungeons carrying weapons
> (but maybe Im wrong about that) Necros which have always had dual
> wield now have a significant reduction in damage.
Right.. and Magician pets are SUPPOSED to be stronger than skeletons.. Your
class is not defined by your pet.. a necro can dish WAY more damage himself
than a mage can, and is able to buff his pet far better, could heal his pet
where mages JUST got that ability.. take the actual caster into account and
necros are STILL way more powerful than mages. A 50th level mage can cast an
810 point bolt spell which is their highest damage spell. which is often
resisted down to about 400 by 46+ mobs.. a necro on the other hand, can
stack dots on a mob for over 2500 pts a round at 50th.. hmm.. the pet
doesn't need to tank for nearly as long.. so doesn't have to take as much
damage as a mage pet.. plus higher level necros get root, where a mage
doesn't.. so they don't need something to act as super tank for them.. as
well as the fact that their darkness line of dots acts as an ensnare..
> So following Verants previous line, they have given something to Mages
> and taken away from Necros now to allow the Mage pet to outstrip the
> necro pet (whether this was their intention or not)
>
> (Sorry, if you had a class and Verant decided to bump another class up
> to bring it even with you, then later on decided to weaken you even
> more and give that class an additional bonus, you would be pissed too)
Show me a mage that has a super easy time soloing to 50th? I'd love to see a
mage solo that huge dinosaur in OOT, yet it was done by a necro.
again YOUR PET IS NOT THE SUM TOTAL OF YOUR CLASS. look at the series' of
spells the necro gets.. vs the mages summong items and DD..
> And you know what? They did this all in the name of the desparity
> between the melee class and the pets. Yeah right.
No.. I agree with this.. the disparity between pets and melee classes has
NEVER been addressed by any of these patches.. Nor does giving high level
necro pets spell effects make warriors better = )
> They still haven't explained how giving the already badass mage pet an
> extra attack per round makes this any better.
>
> I think the necro's got screwed in a hard way and the issue really is
> more about solo-ability than anything else.
The only way the necros got screwed, was that they were made with far too
many built in exploits, (feign death, Irrisistable lifetap line) and powers
from the beginning, and now people have to get used to the fact that they're
going to have a tougher time soloing to 50..
> Hell my primary class is a warrior and even though I didn't like that
> fact that a pet alone could beat me at higher levels, I think Verant
> should have taken steps to make me more effective at higher levels as
> in reality, the Pet Vs. Melee issue actually brings into light just
> how big the gap starts to become between melee classes and NPC in
> general.
>
> I cringe to think of how big the gap will be at levels 51-75.
>
> Sorry Necro's and Mages out there, I hope Verant comes to its senses
> and takes a closer look at Melee classes instead of degrading yours.
>
> p.s.
> Sorry, but crippling blow.. nice token skill .. If I get to beserk,
> the fight is pretty much over and an extra critical really isn't going
> to make it that much better.. especially at the later levels when the
> gap between warriors and monsters is so high.
>
> Nice try though Verant this one needs work however.
Warriors still need work.. yes.. Necros are not grossly underpowered now.
they're just slightly less overpowered..
>
> Tearsum
> Troll Warrior
> Rodcet Nife
Khaavren of Castlerock
Bard of renown
Veeshan.
Morgan
>
> >Marc Fuller <kat...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >>As of the last patch, pets no longer use the delay of the
> >>weapon, only their own default delay. This dramaticly
> >>reduces a skeleton pet's attack speed, even with full buffs.
> >
Yes, Necromancer pets were nerfed. Abashi said as much.
( http://eq.castersrealm.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=759 )
> >>Many Necros see this as Magicians getting an upgrade, while
> >>Necros get screwed, despite the fact that Elementals were
> >>*always* supposed to be able to dual wield, and never have
> >>until now.
> >
> >So, at least part of the complaint stems from the usual class
> >jealousy or rivalry.
>
> Maybe.. but think of it this way. All this time, Verant has
> known about this bug and has BALANCED classes against it. They
> gave Mage pet's spells to bring them up to par with
> Necromancer's pets.
>
> They then decide Whoops! bug (only they knew about the delay
> issue and have posted about it in the past and never really
> mentioned its overbalancing effects) so I don't really consider
> it a bug.
What happened is that they finally ran the numbers. Go read the
posts. Abashi's short and sweet version can be found in this
article:
http://eq.castersrealm.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=758
They wanted the Magician pets to be more powerful in damage/time
than Necromancer pets. When they realized what an utterly stupid
amount of damage the Magician pets would have to be dealing to
achieve that, they were forced to see that Necromancer pets with
the weapon delay bug were "vastly overpowered". So they fixed
the bug. (Call it an "unintended side effect" rather than a bug
if you wish.)
> What does this do?
>
> Well they add an option to Magicians pet's to do even MORE
> damage at higher levels. Magicians say oh we should have always
> been able to do that. Funny I never see any elementals in
> dungeons carrying weapons (but maybe Im wrong about that)
> Necros which have always had dual wield now have a significant
> reduction in damage.
Magician pets were never wielding weapons because they couldn't.
Now you have to hand them two weapons to make them dual wield
(after level 29). Expect to see a lot more Magician pets with
weapons in the near future.
> So following Verants previous line, they have given something
> to Mages and taken away from Necros now to allow the Mage pet
> to outstrip the necro pet (whether this was their intention or
> not)
It was absolutely their intention. Magician pets were always
supposed to be better than Necromancer pets.
> (Sorry, if you had a class and Verant decided to bump another
> class up to bring it even with you, then later on decided to
> weaken you even more and give that class an additional bonus,
> you would be pissed too)
>
> And you know what? They did this all in the name of the
> desparity between the melee class and the pets. Yeah right.
Actually, they did it because of the disparity between
Necromancers and all other classes.
> They still haven't explained how giving the already badass mage
> pet an extra attack per round makes this any better.
>
> I think the necro's got screwed in a hard way and the issue
> really is more about solo-ability than anything else.
If by "screwed" you mean "nearly brought to parity with other
classes", then yes, they were screwed.
The solo-ability issue is essentially a power level issue. Very
powerful classes can solo well. Necromancers could add a lot to
a group, but they usually wouldn't because they could get
experience so much faster by themselves. There was simply no
reason for them to share experience with three to five other
people when they could have it all to themselves.
I think it is fair to assume that any class that can solo with
ease to level 50 is probably over powered and should expect to be
nerfed in some way.
> Hell my primary class is a warrior and even though I didn't
> like that fact that a pet alone could beat me at higher levels,
> I think Verant should have taken steps to make me more
> effective at higher levels as in reality, the Pet Vs. Melee
> issue actually brings into light just how big the gap starts to
> become between melee classes and NPC in general.
If all other classes had been raised to the power level of
Necromancers, the game would become too easy.
> I cringe to think of how big the gap will be at levels 51-75.
>
> Sorry Necro's and Mages out there, I hope Verant comes to its
> senses and takes a closer look at Melee classes instead of
> degrading yours.
--
Morgan
(crossposting all posts to rec.games.computer.everquest)
Tearsum
>> So following Verants previous line, they have given something
>> to Mages and taken away from Necros now to allow the Mage pet
>> to outstrip the necro pet (whether this was their intention or
>> not)
>
>It was absolutely their intention. Magician pets were always
>supposed to be better than Necromancer pets.
>
>> (Sorry, if you had a class and Verant decided to bump another
>> class up to bring it even with you, then later on decided to
>> weaken you even more and give that class an additional bonus,
>> you would be pissed too)
>>
>> And you know what? They did this all in the name of the
>> desparity between the melee class and the pets. Yeah right.
>
>Actually, they did it because of the disparity between
>Necromancers and all other classes.
>> They still haven't explained how giving the already badass mage
>> pet an extra attack per round makes this any better.
>>
You are wrong, they SPECIFICALLY said it was because :
"These changes drew our attention to the disparity that exists between
melee characters and caster pets. Both of these pets, after the
initial round of changes, could wield certain weapons that would
significantly increase their attack speed. We acknowledge that
necromancers always had this ability, and apologize for our delay in
addressing it, but weapons will no longer increase the attack speed
(lower the attack delay) of a pet."
So tell me again, how giving the mages already badass pet with a
damage shield, DUAL WIELD MAKES THIS ANY FREAKING BETTER? It was a bs
reason given by verant because they have no real plans to fix our
class-type other than these token skills they throw out to us.
>> I think the necro's got screwed in a hard way and the issue
>> really is more about solo-ability than anything else.
>
>If by "screwed" you mean "nearly brought to parity with other
>classes", then yes, they were screwed.
Wrong, wrong, wrong again. They weren't "brought into parity" they are
being given spells to compensate them for the loss of damage.
I mean screwed because this is the way Verant even had said they
intended Necromancers to be since the BEGINNING. Regardless of whether
or not you view the FS dagger trick as a bug or not (verant obviously
didn't until just recently) You have to admit that its wrong for this
to happen. Verant should NOT have screwed with a class like this.
They are making attempts to completely change the playing style of the
class. Not because of imbalance towards melee.
If Verant really thought pets were overpowered causing an imbalance
towards the melee classes, They should have:
A. Increase melee effectiveness to match or outmatch pets in GENERAL.
(Not just Necromancer but Magician as well.)
or
A. Taken away dagger delay
B. NOT Given mages pets dual wield
C. Possibly looked at taking spells AWAY from mages pets)
D. NOT given spells to compensate Necros loss of damage
E. NOT given spells to the Necro pet.
>
>The solo-ability issue is essentially a power level issue. Very
>powerful classes can solo well. Necromancers could add a lot to
>a group, but they usually wouldn't because they could get
>experience so much faster by themselves. There was simply no
>reason for them to share experience with three to five other
>people when they could have it all to themselves.
>
>I think it is fair to assume that any class that can solo with
>ease to level 50 is probably over powered and should expect to be
>nerfed in some way.
>
Solo with ease? This statement makes me believe you haven't played a
necro to 50 let alone solo with one. The fact that a level 49 Necro
could solo so many named rooms had alot to do with the spells at that
level. Why does everyone think that just because another class can
solo they have a walk in the park to get there? What do you think
there is a spell in the necro game that automagically gives them 50
whenever they get tired of the "real" effort that all the other
classes go through? If anything soloing is MUCH tougher than grouping
unless you are very, very good at it and have alot of good luck.
Especially past 30. It takes alot of time and effort.
It really sickens me that a class which Verant even stood by for a
long time as being one of thier solo classes, is now dramatically
changed into a "grouping" class because of whiners on this newsgroup.
Oh and just incase you haven't read a few other threads: Verant has
known about the dagger delay "bug" and certainly haven't called it a
"bug" in the past. Some Verant employee's used to post about using the
dagger trick themselves. Sounds like we need to ban them huh?
If Verant does not respond and "nerf" the magicians pet, it is simply
proves the issue was NOT about the disparity between Pets and Melee
classes. Verant just wanted to stop the solo-ability of necros.
>> Hell my primary class is a warrior and even though I didn't
>> like that fact that a pet alone could beat me at higher levels,
>> I think Verant should have taken steps to make me more
>> effective at higher levels as in reality, the Pet Vs. Melee
>> issue actually brings into light just how big the gap starts to
>> become between melee classes and NPC in general.
>
>If all other classes had been raised to the power level of
>Necromancers, the game would become too easy.
Where did I say I want to be as powerful as a necro? At higher levels
I am so underpowered from most of the magic classes that bringing my
class even up to 25-30% wouldn't make me even.
>
>> I cringe to think of how big the gap will be at levels 51-75.
>>
>> Sorry Necro's and Mages out there, I hope Verant comes to its
>> senses and takes a closer look at Melee classes instead of
>> degrading yours.
>
>--
>Morgan
>
Tearsum
Troll Warrior
Rodcet Nife
Morgan
>
> So tell me again, how giving the mages already badass pet with a
> damage shield, DUAL WIELD MAKES THIS ANY FREAKING BETTER? It was a bs
> reason given by verant because they have no real plans to fix our
> class-type other than these token skills they throw out to us.
They do have plans to fix Necromancers. Necromancers were broken.
They were dealing too much damage. They have been fixed.
> >> I think the necro's got screwed in a hard way and the issue
> >> really is more about solo-ability than anything else.
> >
> >If by "screwed" you mean "nearly brought to parity with other
> >classes", then yes, they were screwed.
>
> Wrong, wrong, wrong again. They weren't "brought into parity" they are
> being given spells to compensate them for the loss of damage.
Those spells are not going to make Necromancers as powerful as they
were before the fix, of course.
> I mean screwed because this is the way Verant even had said they
> intended Necromancers to be since the BEGINNING. Regardless of whether
> or not you view the FS dagger trick as a bug or not (verant obviously
> didn't until just recently) You have to admit that its wrong for this
> to happen. Verant should NOT have screwed with a class like this.
> They are making attempts to completely change the playing style of the
> class. Not because of imbalance towards melee.
I have to admit that it took them a heck of a long time to realize
that they had to fix this bug. I really wish they had done it last
summer before everyone got used to it.
> If Verant really thought pets were overpowered causing an imbalance
> towards the melee classes, They should have:
>
> A. Increase melee effectiveness to match or outmatch pets in GENERAL.
> (Not just Necromancer but Magician as well.)
Have you got any idea how easy this game would be if everyone were as
powerful as Necromancers? Why would anyone even play? Clearly this
idea is infeasible.
> or
>
> A. Taken away dagger delay
> B. NOT Given mages pets dual wield
> C. Possibly looked at taking spells AWAY from mages pets)
> D. NOT given spells to compensate Necros loss of damage
> E. NOT given spells to the Necro pet.
I'm afraid I miss your point here. You think they should have fixed
the dagger bug but not made any improvements in Necromancers or Mages?
> >The solo-ability issue is essentially a power level issue. Very
> >powerful classes can solo well. Necromancers could add a lot to
> >a group, but they usually wouldn't because they could get
> >experience so much faster by themselves. There was simply no
> >reason for them to share experience with three to five other
> >people when they could have it all to themselves.
> >
> >I think it is fair to assume that any class that can solo with
> >ease to level 50 is probably over powered and should expect to be
> >nerfed in some way.
>
> Solo with ease? This statement makes me believe you haven't played a
> necro to 50 let alone solo with one. The fact that a level 49 Necro
> could solo so many named rooms had alot to do with the spells at that
> level. Why does everyone think that just because another class can
> solo they have a walk in the park to get there? What do you think
> there is a spell in the necro game that automagically gives them 50
> whenever they get tired of the "real" effort that all the other
> classes go through? If anything soloing is MUCH tougher than grouping
> unless you are very, very good at it and have alot of good luck.
> Especially past 30. It takes alot of time and effort.
Yes, each fight in solo play is harder (from a sheer numbers
perspective) than group play. Group play is more challenging
because you have to coordinate the group. It's easier to get
experience quickly through solo play than through group play
because you don't have the logistical issues.
The fact remains that Necromancers could take on lots of things
solo above level 30, while most other classes were restricted
to a few very specific spawns (chosen for being relatively weak
and unguarded).
> It really sickens me that a class which Verant even stood by for a
> long time as being one of thier solo classes, is now dramatically
> changed into a "grouping" class because of whiners on this newsgroup.
Necromancers can still solo. Every class has been played solo
to 50 (or so we are told). Whining on this newsgroup did not
force a change. The design team at Verant recognized their old
error and fixed it.
> >> Hell my primary class is a warrior and even though I didn't
> >> like that fact that a pet alone could beat me at higher levels,
> >> I think Verant should have taken steps to make me more
> >> effective at higher levels as in reality, the Pet Vs. Melee
> >> issue actually brings into light just how big the gap starts to
> >> become between melee classes and NPC in general.
> >
> >If all other classes had been raised to the power level of
> >Necromancers, the game would become too easy.
>
> Where did I say I want to be as powerful as a necro? At higher levels
> I am so underpowered from most of the magic classes that bringing my
> class even up to 25-30% wouldn't make me even.
So you don't actually care about game balance? You don't want to
be as powerful as a Necromancer and you don't want their power
lowered at all. I think I am missing your point again.
--
Morgan
buc
Dragonlord <da...@eznet.net> wrote in message
news:s96tc7r...@corp.supernews.com...
> If you take away the delay that a good weapons gives pet and make any
weapon
> that a necro had as far as pets to a mage then that is necro nerf. What
> people don't understand is that a necro is one of the intentional solo
> away the delay factor they slow down pet thus hurting the necro. Also if
> you are playing another class and you usually group with necro and pet you
> will have to do more damage and maybe take more as pet will do less over
> time.
It always kills me when i see people post that Necro's are a "solo" class
and Verant is "nerfing" away their ability to solo. The reason Necro's are
considered a solo class is because they were TO FREAKING POWERFUL. EQ is
designed to be group oriented - any class who is clearly stronger than the
other classes on average should be nerfed - class balance is very important
in this game and pre-patch Necros were obviously stronger than any other
class. This is not to say soloing shouldn't or can't be done - i solo a lot
with my 30 ranger - but Necros shouldn't be any better at soloing than
rangers or any other class. Verant is doing the right thing in fixing this
bug or design flaw or whatever you want to call it.
Philip Hierlihy
Lokari
>>> What people don't understand is that a necro is one of the intentional
>>> solo classes, created by verant to BE able to solo and solo well
>> Where does this information come from? Can it be found in any official
>> Verant statements?
> Brad and Gordon, go back through posts
Forgive me if I find this too vague an answer. Can anyone provide
pointers to any statements to this effect on one of the established or
official sites?
Alasdair Allan
> Lokari <lok...@enteract.com> wrote
> > Sorry, I can't accept that. Improving one class does not constitute a
> > nerf of another.
>
> now they aren't if you are the most powerful and somebody is given more to
> catch you it can be perceived as a nerf
It is a loss of comparative advantage.
In absolute terms, no nerf. Overall, no nerf.
Please say *why* Necromancers should be more powerful. They are *much*
easier to level than *any* other class. They also have easy ways round
their KoS status (invisibility at level 8) which other KoS Race/Class
combinations do not have. Furthermore, they suffer a tiny XP penalty (10%
same as Wizards or Shamans) which is much lower than weaker Rangers,
Shadowknights or Paladins.
So why *should* a Necro be stronger when i. they don't earn it (trivially
easy levelling), ii. they don't deserve it (few KoS problems), and iii. they
don't pay for it (xp penalty).
> > >What people don't understand is that a necro is one of the intentional
> > >solo classes, created by verant to BE able to solo and solo well
> >
> > Where does this information come from? Can it be found in any official
> > Verant statements?
>
> Brad and Gordon, go back through posts
Lying cunt.
Please provide *one* post where they said this.
They didn't, so you lie.
--
Alasdair Allan, Ibrox, Glasgow |England - Country where Marx developed
x-st...@null.net | the basis of Communism
X-Static's Rangers Webzine |Scotland - Country where Smith developed
http://www.x-static.demon.co.uk/ | the basis of Capitalism
Tearsum
wrote:
>Tearsum wrote:
>>
>> So tell me again, how giving the mages already badass pet with a
>> damage shield, DUAL WIELD MAKES THIS ANY FREAKING BETTER? It was a bs
>> reason given by verant because they have no real plans to fix our
>> class-type other than these token skills they throw out to us.
>
>They do have plans to fix Necromancers. Necromancers were broken.
>They were dealing too much damage. They have been fixed.
>
My class type is a warrior. That is what I am talking about. and you
still haven't answered how increasing the already badass mage pet
fixes my class or even brings my class in parity by making it even
more badass.
Again, I never said I wanted to be as powerful as a Necromancer, Just
more or AS effective as the *pet* (not only the Necromancer, but the
Magicians pet too). If you argue that this would imbalance the game,
then you are saying Mage pets are imbalancing the game as well.
>> or
>>
>> A. Taken away dagger delay
>> B. NOT Given mages pets dual wield
>> C. Possibly looked at taking spells AWAY from mages pets)
>> D. NOT given spells to compensate Necros loss of damage
>> E. NOT given spells to the Necro pet.
>
>I'm afraid I miss your point here. You think they should have fixed
>the dagger bug but not made any improvements in Necromancers or Mages?
>
Yes, ( except nix line D ) I mean if they were really hoping to fix a
"disparity between the pets and melee" They should have done all of
the above.
And? I don't *CARE* If a necromancer can or could solo all these
things. It is not a walk in the park either way. I just wish my class
was more effective and Verant telling us this is one way they are
making us(melee) more "needed" is a joke
>
>> It really sickens me that a class which Verant even stood by for a
>> long time as being one of thier solo classes, is now dramatically
>> changed into a "grouping" class because of whiners on this newsgroup.
>
>Necromancers can still solo. Every class has been played solo
>to 50 (or so we are told). Whining on this newsgroup did not
>force a change. The design team at Verant recognized their old
>error and fixed it.
>
If you believe whining on this newsgroup isn't at least partially
responsible for any of the changes that have taken place then you are
sadly deluding yourself.
>> >> Hell my primary class is a warrior and even though I didn't
>> >> like that fact that a pet alone could beat me at higher levels,
>> >> I think Verant should have taken steps to make me more
>> >> effective at higher levels as in reality, the Pet Vs. Melee
>> >> issue actually brings into light just how big the gap starts to
>> >> become between melee classes and NPC in general.
>> >
>> >If all other classes had been raised to the power level of
>> >Necromancers, the game would become too easy.
>>
>> Where did I say I want to be as powerful as a necro? At higher levels
>> I am so underpowered from most of the magic classes that bringing my
>> class even up to 25-30% wouldn't make me even.
>
>So you don't actually care about game balance? You don't want to
>be as powerful as a Necromancer and you don't want their power
>lowered at all. I think I am missing your point again.
>
(btw I don't believe making warriors or melee types as effective or
more effective than the prepatch necro *pet* would have imbalanced the
game overly much..and now there is the issue with the mage pet)
Yes, I do care about balance.
I want them to reassess and address the issues with melee classes that
they have themselves set in stone about (i.e. melee binding)
I don't want them to start nerfing other classes and "pulling everyone
else down in the mud" so I can feel better. Because in the end
(especially at higher levels), we are all needed in groups no matter
what anyone says, and making any class weaker at this point is
generally not an improvement in game balance.
I mean come on, they had a chance to do this in beta, or shortly AFTER
beta. They could have even done something with the new expansion pack
to correct this.. instead they choose to piss alot of people off.. and
leave others scratching their heads as to how exactly this makes them
a better class.
Morgan
Ok, now I understand. I thought you were saying that Necromancers
should not have been nerfed. You are saying that both Magicians
and Necromancers should have been nerfed and that melee classes
should be improved. I think we are in agreement then.
It seems as though the Magician pets are going to be watched for a
while at their new level of power. My guess is that they will be
toned down in a couple weeks when it becomes apparent how powerful
they are. Necromancer pets are cut down by a huge fraction from
what they were, so Necromancers will be a weaker class even with all
their new spells. I think Verant will probably let them settle down
for a while as well.
Warriors are pretty good already. As you have said, they are very
valuable in a group and effective in combat. The binding issue
becomes less important after about level 30 because there are
Clerics around for Revive after that. (Of course, changing
/consent to allow corpse dragging but not looting would help that
situation a lot.) Some of the other melee classes could really use
some help.
> If you believe whining on this newsgroup isn't at least partially
> responsible for any of the changes that have taken place then you
> are sadly deluding yourself.
I really don't think the whiners carry much weight. I am pretty
sure that Brad and the rest just tune out whining and listen to
the rational posters. Otherwise they would go insane. ;)
--
Morgan
Tearsum
wrote:
Either not nerfing the Necro and bringing the melee classes up to par
or nerfing both necro pets and magician pets (not giving them a bonus)
>Warriors are pretty good already. As you have said, they are very
>valuable in a group and effective in combat. The binding issue
>becomes less important after about level 30 because there are
>Clerics around for Revive after that. (Of course, changing
>/consent to allow corpse dragging but not looting would help that
>situation a lot.) Some of the other melee classes could really use
>some help.
Warriors are decent. could be better.. I am sorry, the binding issue
DOES NOT get noticibly(sp) better until the high 40's. Before that,
try finding a cleric to res you. Either they are 5 zones away, they
want to charge 100-300 plat for a res, or they are anon.
Making us rely on one of the lesser played classes for something like
this is ridiculous.
There just are not enough clerics to go around for Verant to make any
claims about melee binding anywhere making clerics less useful ...
People will still want them very much for exp recovery and for when
they forgot to get bound.
In addition Resurrection line should be left in and its levels lowered
and spread out..
>
>> If you believe whining on this newsgroup isn't at least partially
>> responsible for any of the changes that have taken place then you
>> are sadly deluding yourself.
>
>I really don't think the whiners carry much weight. I am pretty
>sure that Brad and the rest just tune out whining and listen to
>the rational posters. Otherwise they would go insane. ;)
Lol, what makes you think they are not insane? ;)
Lokari
>I think the closest I've ever seen them come, is to say that some classes are
>intentionally more viable as solo characters than others, and that this is
>intentional.
Now *that* would make sense.
Jeremy Music
>On Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:04:37 -0800, Morgan <mor...@misleading.com>
>wrote:
>
>Either not nerfing the Necro and bringing the melee classes up to par
>or nerfing both necro pets and magician pets (not giving them a bonus)
You do realize that magician pets are just now, finally, _as good_ as necro
pets. It took a nerf on the necro side _and_ a boost on the magician side
to make the magician pet _as good_ as the necro pet. Now go play your
warrior and leave me alone.
Here, let me argue your side for you. "But magician pets get spells."
Well, yeah, and now apparently necro pets will too. On top of that the
spells that the magician pets have that aren't just a touch of extra damage,
i.e. earth pet's root and air pet's stun, were spells put in because
magicians had nothing like that at all. And on top of that, necros _still_
live through a bad fight.
A necro in a bad fight:
"Ok, dot to regen mana and heal pet, feign dead, pray."
A magician in a bad fight:
"Pray."
>Lol, what makes you think they are not insane? ;)
Sanity is such an elusive concept.
>Tearsum
>Troll Warrior
>Rodcet Nife
I was right, you are a warrior. :)
J
(What would you think if I told you we had grouped before?)
(btw, I still think warriors/hybrids should get a boost in damage)
Hippie Ramone
: A necro in a bad fight:
: "Ok, dot to regen mana and heal pet, feign dead, pray."
Ummm FD and DoT is really really risky in that DoT dmg quite often
makes the mob remember you.
K
Jamie Norwood
>Tearsum <no-spam-ste...@flash.net> wrote:
>>On Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:04:37 -0800, Morgan <mor...@misleading.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>Either not nerfing the Necro and bringing the melee classes up to par
>>or nerfing both necro pets and magician pets (not giving them a bonus)
So your post basically sums up as 'Magicians and Necros are now equal,
so who cares about the melee classes'?
Jamie
>You do realize that magician pets are just now, finally, _as good_ as necro
>pets. It took a nerf on the necro side _and_ a boost on the magician side
>to make the magician pet _as good_ as the necro pet. Now go play your
>warrior and leave me alone.
>
>Here, let me argue your side for you. "But magician pets get spells."
>Well, yeah, and now apparently necro pets will too. On top of that the
>spells that the magician pets have that aren't just a touch of extra damage,
>i.e. earth pet's root and air pet's stun, were spells put in because
>magicians had nothing like that at all. And on top of that, necros _still_
>live through a bad fight.
>
>A necro in a bad fight:
>
>"Ok, dot to regen mana and heal pet, feign dead, pray."
>
>A magician in a bad fight:
>
>"Pray."
>
>>Lol, what makes you think they are not insane? ;)
>
>Sanity is such an elusive concept.
>
>>Tearsum
>>Troll Warrior
>>Rodcet Nife
>
Tearsum
wrote:
>Tearsum <no-spam-ste...@flash.net> wrote:
>>On Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:04:37 -0800, Morgan <mor...@misleading.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>Either not nerfing the Necro and bringing the melee classes up to par
>>or nerfing both necro pets and magician pets (not giving them a bonus)
>
>You do realize that magician pets are just now, finally, _as good_ as necro
>pets. It took a nerf on the necro side _and_ a boost on the magician side
>to make the magician pet _as good_ as the necro pet. Now go play your
>warrior and leave me alone.
>
And melee classes still trailing in the dust... you suffer from class
envy.. I do not, I only wish my class was better but I know its pretty
much useless to get Verant to try to change it.
What I was saying, if you were reading the entire thread, is that for
Verant to use "the disparity between melee and pets" for a reason to
nerf necro pets, is a pretty lame excuse. They should have either
nerfed necros and NOT increased damage potential on mage pets or they
should have increased melee viability (the better of the two options
for everyone around)
I think I will be shelving my warrior and playing my new druid human
druid from now on.
(At least this way it will only take 1-2 mins max before I am able to
step back in to the fray again after I die instead of the 30 mins
running)
Jeremy Music
>In rec.games.computer.everquest Jeremy Music <re...@darkstar.qx.net> wrote:
>
>: "Ok, dot to regen mana and heal pet, feign dead, pray."
>
>makes the mob remember you.
>
A magician in a bad fight:
"feign dead" "Oh wait, I don't have that." "*splat*"
FD is risky? You think it is _less_ risky than not having FD? I already
said it was in a bad fight, risk at that point is moot.
J
Jeremy Music
>In article <slrn89jl4...@darkstar.qx.net>, Jeremy Music wrote:
>>Tearsum <no-spam-ste...@flash.net> wrote:
>>>On Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:04:37 -0800, Morgan <mor...@misleading.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>Either not nerfing the Necro and bringing the melee classes up to par
>>>or nerfing both necro pets and magician pets (not giving them a bonus)
>
>so who cares about the melee classes'?
>
>Jamie
I'm assuming you were responding to one-up, Morgan.
Because I said:
>>(btw, I still think warriors/hybrids should get a boost in damage)
J
Jeremy Music
>On Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:18:50 GMT, re...@darkstar.qx.net (Jeremy Music)
>
>>Tearsum <no-spam-ste...@flash.net> wrote:
>>>On Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:04:37 -0800, Morgan <mor...@misleading.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>Either not nerfing the Necro and bringing the melee classes up to par
>>>or nerfing both necro pets and magician pets (not giving them a bonus)
>>
>>pets. It took a nerf on the necro side _and_ a boost on the magician side
>>to make the magician pet _as good_ as the necro pet. Now go play your
>>warrior and leave me alone.
>>
>
>And melee classes still trailing in the dust... you suffer from class
>envy.. I do not, I only wish my class was better but I know its pretty
>much useless to get Verant to try to change it.
>
>What I was saying, if you were reading the entire thread, is that for
>Verant to use "the disparity between melee and pets" for a reason to
>nerf necro pets, is a pretty lame excuse. They should have either
>nerfed necros and NOT increased damage potential on mage pets or they
>should have increased melee viability (the better of the two options
>for everyone around)
Nerfing necros and not increasing damage on mage pets (which I can attest is
not a big increase at all) would mean that necros still had better pets.
Plus better ways to get out of a bad situation. A magician without a pet is
on a corpse retrieval. A necro without a pet is dotting, snaring, rooting,
and feigning.
And why did everyone miss when I said:
>>(btw, I still think warriors/hybrids should get a boost in damage)
>
>I think I will be shelving my warrior and playing my new druid human
>druid from now on.
>
>(At least this way it will only take 1-2 mins max before I am able to
>step back in to the fray again after I die instead of the 30 mins
>running)
I gave up playing melee classes entirely. I made the Qeynos to South
Karanas run a few too many times with my ranger.
J
(_YOU_ try getting a bind in Arena, I don't have that kind of time to waste)
Mason Barge
>nerfed necros and NOT increased damage potential on mage pets or they
>should have increased melee viability (the better of the two options
>for everyone around)
1) As far as I have been able to tell, there is absolutely no increase in mage
pet damage after level 34. At very low levels, the increase is enormous.
2) The warrior whine about "increasing melee viability" is nonsense. If you
want a character to play solo or duel, no, there is no melee class that can
stand up to the pet classes. If, however, like Verant, you want to balance the
classes for group desirability, warrior is still overbalanced.
In order of frequency, shouts for group members (at higher levels) are 1)
enchanter 2) healer 3) tank 4) caster.
Playability issues are different, and I really think Verant ought to give a
more accurate assessment to newbies before they dump a ton of time and energy
into their sk, rogue, wizard, paladin, or cleric.
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me
some coffee."
- Abraham Lincoln
Tearsum
wrote:
>>They should have either
>>nerfed necros and NOT increased damage potential on mage pets or they
>>should have increased melee viability (the better of the two options
>>for everyone around)
>
>1) As far as I have been able to tell, there is absolutely no increase in mage
>pet damage after level 34. At very low levels, the increase is enormous.
>
>2) The warrior whine about "increasing melee viability" is nonsense. If you
>want a character to play solo or duel, no, there is no melee class that can
>stand up to the pet classes. If, however, like Verant, you want to balance the
>classes for group desirability, warrior is still overbalanced.
>
No, it is not nonsense. Don' t make assumptions about a class you
haven't played and only have second hand knowledge of. "Increasing
melee viability" can mean a number of things it does NOT necessarily =
"outdamage pet" .. And a warrior is OVERBALANCED for group combat???
(what in the hell did you put in your coffee... because I think its
time you switched to the tea)
-- Hmm because we are now slightly better than necro pets? I don't
frigging understand people like you and these off the wall,
exampleless comments