x% of USAians can't find the USA on a map
Ken Nicolson
groups, someone always quotes the figure how 60%/70%/80% of college
educated students from the USA can't find the USA on a world map.
Surely this isn't really true? Even though they might be so insular,
enough news programs have the weather with the whole of the USA, which
is roughly trapezoidal in shape, and on a world map, the only other
bits that roughly match that shape are perhaps northern South America
around the Amazon, and Africa around the Sahara, but both lack
anything vaguely like Canada or Mexico around them.
Ken "can't be harder than comprehending the difference between England
and UKofGBandNI or whatever" Nicolson
Andrea Jones
Ken Nicolson wrote in message ...
>Every time a flame war between the USA and EU breaks out in other
>groups, someone always quotes the figure how 60%/70%/80% of college
>educated students from the USA can't find the USA on a world map.
>
>Surely this isn't really true? Even though they might be so insular,
>enough news programs have the weather with the whole of the USA, which
>is roughly trapezoidal in shape, and on a world map, the only other
>bits that roughly match that shape are perhaps northern South America
>around the Amazon, and Africa around the Sahara, but both lack
>anything vaguely like Canada or Mexico around them.
recruits in my division or my brother division were not from Illinois.
About half of them had absolutely no clue where Chicago, Illinois was in
relation to their points of origin. The ages in the two divisions (about
120 recruits total, by the end) ranged from 17 to 33. The recent high
school graduates seemed to have the most difficulty realizing that they
wouldn't be making any weekend trips home to California. If so many failed
to have any grasp of the internal geography of their own damn country, how
can we expect that they'd have any grasp of the external geography?
Andrea "I gave several informal US Geography lessons in boot camp" Jones
rsi...@mindspring.com
wrote:
>Every time a flame war between the USA and EU breaks out in other
>groups, someone always quotes the figure how 60%/70%/80% of college
>educated students from the USA can't find the USA on a world map.
>
>Surely this isn't really true? Even though they might be so insular,
>enough news programs have the weather with the whole of the USA, which
>is roughly trapezoidal in shape, and on a world map, the only other
>bits that roughly match that shape are perhaps northern South America
>around the Amazon, and Africa around the Sahara, but both lack
>anything vaguely like Canada or Mexico around them.
>
>Ken "can't be harder than comprehending the difference between England
>and UKofGBandNI or whatever" Nicolson
My father is a History professor at a small college. He also, on
occasion, teaches geography. I can attest to several times where
students, college no less, were unable to locate the following
locations on a world map. The USA, North America, Their Home State,
the Pacific Ocean, the Atlantic Ocean, Europe, and (what was then) the
USSR. He also had one student who thought that islands float, and
were kept in place with giant anchors and chains.
It's a sad, sad, sad, sad world.
rsi...@mindspring.com
Rafe W. Singer: Sorcerer's Apprentice
Sayer of Sooths
Doer of the Impossible
Believer in Murphy's Law
Taiwan Beer
I have seen bandied about in discussions on this topic.
TB
Ken Nicolson <kenn...@gol.com> wrote in message
news:Q7oyOJczbJWj2R...@4ax.com...
shanihn
passport. I know people that have never been out of their home state.
In article <80v29o$ng0$1...@quince.news.easynet.net>, "Taiwan Beer"
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Gerald Belton
wrote:
>Is it true then that only 2% of US citizens have passports? This is a figure
>I have seen bandied about in discussions on this topic.
A quick search of www.travel.state.gov didn't give a total number of
US citizens with passports, but there is a table showing the number of
passports issued each year since 1974. In the 70's about 4 million
passports were issued per year, and that number grew to over 6 million
last year.
Frankly, I'm surprised it's even that high. The United States is a
Very Big Place. Travel inside the US, or to our nearest neighbors,
does not require a passport. An American who must have a passport is
going on a very long journey indeed.
Gerald "using one for ID when writing a check at the grocery store
confuses the clerk" Belton
Dr H
On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 rsi...@mindspring.com wrote:
}My father is a History professor at a small college. He also, on
}occasion, teaches geography. I can attest to several times where
}students, college no less, were unable to locate the following
}locations on a world map. The USA, North America, Their Home State,
}the Pacific Ocean, the Atlantic Ocean, Europe, and (what was then) the
}USSR. He also had one student who thought that islands float, and
}were kept in place with giant anchors and chains.
Whilst in graduate school many moons ago, I happened to be sitting
in the lounge of the school of music around this time of year, where I
over heard the following conversation between two undergrad students
(graduating seniors):
#1: "I'm going to stay with my boyfriend on the East Coast
for Thanksgiving."
#2: "Really? Where on the East Coast?"
#1: "Chicago."
#2: "Cool!"
}It's a sad, sad, sad, sad world.
All is not entirely grim: my second-grade neighbor can point out
the USA, Oregon, /and/ herhome town on both a flat map and a globe.
Dr H
Chip Taylor
>
> Whilst in graduate school many moons ago, I happened to be sitting
> in the lounge of the school of music around this time of year, where I
> over heard the following conversation between two undergrad students
> (graduating seniors):
>
> #1: "I'm going to stay with my boyfriend on the East Coast
> for Thanksgiving."
>
> #2: "Really? Where on the East Coast?"
>
> #1: "Chicago."
>
> #2: "Cool!"
>
>}It's a sad, sad, sad, sad world.
>
> All is not entirely grim: my second-grade neighbor can point out
> the USA, Oregon, /and/ herhome town on both a flat map and a globe.
>
>Dr H
>
But does she know where Chicago is?
Chip "and "down South ain't California neither" Taylor
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
You can't strengthen the weak
by weakening the strong.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Dr H
On Wed, 17 Nov 1999, Angela Danielle Batiste wrote:
}you write:
}> Whilst in graduate school many moons ago, I happened to be sitting
}> in the lounge of the school of music around this time of year, where I
}> over heard the following conversation between two undergrad students
}> (graduating seniors):
}>
}> #1: "I'm going to stay with my boyfriend on the East Coast
}> for Thanksgiving."
}>
}> #2: "Really? Where on the East Coast?"
}>
}> #1: "Chicago."
}>
}> #2: "Cool!"
}
}That could just be a matter of perspective.
To some extent, for sure.
}I grew up in Seattle, so for me (and my friends) "West" was Washington,
}Oregon, and California only (It surprised the hell out of me when I went
}to college in Boston, and people spoke of Wyoming and Colorado as "western
}states.") We considered the Rocky Mountain area "MidWest", east of there
}and toward the north was "East Coast," and east of there and toward the
}south was "South" - when we were speaking casually and not being tested.
}
}So, Chicago was "East Coast" to us - but that didn't mean we thought it
}was on the Atlantic. Given a map, we could have pointed to it easily.
}But in the type of conversation you describe, it all just blends together
}once you get more than 1500 miles away.
Well...
I agree to a point. I grew up in New York, and to us the "midwest"
began somewhere around Ohio. When I moved to Oregon I was rather
astonished to hear Wyoming refered to as the "midwest" since where
I grew up Wyoming was part of "the West." But *never* did I hear
anyone refer to a Rocky Mountain state as the West *Coast* -- that
was reserved for California (usually), Oregon, and Washington.
While I have little problem with Chicago being refered to as "the
East," it is by no stretch of the imagination on the East *Coast* of
anything, not even Lake Michigan.
I think it's a matter of education: there are people who think
that Southern California is the whole of the "West Coast;" though
I never have. And when people ask where I grew up I still find
myself stressing *upstate* New York, lest they assume (as they often
have) that New York = New York City.
Oh well... for a real geographical challange try figuring out what's
where in the Balkans from day to day. :-)
Dr H
David Hatunen
> Whilst in graduate school many moons ago, I happened to be
> sitting in the lounge of the school of music around this time of
> year, where I over heard the following conversation between two
> undergrad students (graduating seniors):
>
> #1: "I'm going to stay with my boyfriend on the East Coast
> for Thanksgiving."
>
> #2: "Really? Where on the East Coast?"
>
> #1: "Chicago."
>
> #2: "Cool!"
In all fairness, to many of us West Coasters anything east of the
Mississippi is the East Coast, even when it isn't.
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@sonic.net) ***********
* Daly City California *
******* My typos are intentional copyright traps ******
shanihn
> sitting
> }> in the lounge of the school of music around this time of year,
> where I
> }> over heard the following conversation between two undergrad
> students
> }> (graduating seniors):
> }>
> }> #1: "I'm going to stay with my boyfriend on the East Coast
> }> for Thanksgiving."
> }>
> }> #2: "Really? Where on the East Coast?"
> }>
> }> #1: "Chicago."
> }>
> }> #2: "Cool!"
> }
whole semester on the Balkans. At one time, I could name every country
and capital in Europe, and map the continent as well. At the time, I
couldn't name all 50 of the US states, much less capitals. I've since
corrected the deficiency. On another "geographically challenged" note:
I bought something via mailorder from New York State. The girl on the
other end told me, "Oh, we don't ship out of the country." I live in
New Mexico. It took me quite some time to convince her that I lived in
the USofA.
K. D.
Dr H wrote in message ...
>
> Whilst in graduate school many moons ago, I happened to be sitting
> in the lounge of the school of music around this time of year, where I
> over heard the following conversation between two undergrad students
> (graduating seniors):
>
> #1: "I'm going to stay with my boyfriend on the East Coast
> for Thanksgiving."
>
> #2: "Really? Where on the East Coast?"
>
> #1: "Chicago."
OK, position in the US can be a relative term. My husband, from Chicago,
says he always considered Ohio to be part of the Northeast. I, from New
York state, always considered Ohio to be in the Midwest. To me, a state had
to be pretty darn close to, if not touching, the Atlantic Ocean to qualify
as "northeast".
Chicago *is* east of the Mississippi River, which to me kind of divides the
east from "the rest". East coast, tho? Never.
Ralph Jones
> Is it true then that only 2% of US citizens have passports? This is a figure
> I have seen bandied about in discussions on this topic.
I don't know the true figure, but 2% is eminently reasonable. It costs us about
a thousand dollars in airfare to reach a place we can't visit without a
passport.
rj
Charles W. Lingard
the cited author.]
In article <epAJXVRM$GA.296@cpmsnbbsa02>, aegi...@email.msn.com uttered
thusly...
[snipped]
> If so many failed
> to have any grasp of the internal geography of their own damn country, how
> can we expect that they'd have any grasp of the external geography?
>
> Andrea "I gave several informal US Geography lessons in boot camp" Jones
>
>
>
When I was onboard the U.S.S. America (CV-66) in 1981, heading eastward
from the Atlantic, going through the Straits of Gibraltar, into the
Mediterranean, I was standing on the 03 level gallery deck under the
flight deck, on the starboard side, when I overheard two younger sailors
discussing the land mass that could be seen off in the distance. One
stated that it was Spain, the other thought that it was Portugal. In my
busybodyness, I couldn't let that get by; I gently hinted that if one is
on the starboard side of the ship, heading east into the Mediterranean,
the land that you'll see is North Africa, Morocco to be specific. They
both just gaped slack-jawed at me.
Oh, well; I tried.
--
Charles "I also tried to give impromptu World Geography lessons while
'Haze Gray and Underway'" Lingard
ca...@wave.net
cal...@yahoo.com
Medieval Knievel
shanihn <smullina...@sprynet.com.invalid> wrote in message
On another "geographically challenged" note:
> I bought something via mailorder from New York State. The girl on the
> other end told me, "Oh, we don't ship out of the country." I live in
> New Mexico. It took me quite some time to convince her that I lived in
> the USofA.
When I moved to Oklahoma from New Mexico and was setting up my utilities, a
woman at the gas company cheerfully told me "welcome back to the states!"
--
Nothing says "love" like Medieval Knievel
EAC Coordinator of Youth Corruption Activities
ICQ#26667824 aa#1554 ULC Minister
there is an obvious spamblock in my address
R H Draney
> OK, position in the US can be a relative term. My husband, from Chicago,
> says he always considered Ohio to be part of the Northeast. I, from New
> York state, always considered Ohio to be in the Midwest. To me, a state had
> to be pretty darn close to, if not touching, the Atlantic Ocean to qualify
> as "northeast".
>
> Chicago *is* east of the Mississippi River, which to me kind of divides the
> east from "the rest". East coast, tho? Never.
Moreover, rain falling on Chicago will eventually find its way into the Atlantic
Ocean...as will rain falling on Minot, North Dakota...as a native Californian
and a lifelong Pacific-Watersheddian, I'd say the Continental Divide makes a
nice dividing line....
Were you in this froup yet when I told about explaining to a neighbor why there
were no beaches in Arizona?....r
--
"God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the Courage to change the things I can, and the Wisdom to know
the difference...oh, and a pony!"
K. D.
R H Draney wrote in message <38337AD7...@earthlink.net>...
>Moreover, rain falling on Chicago will eventually find its way into the
Atlantic
>Ocean...as will rain falling on Minot, North Dakota...as a native
Californian
>and a lifelong Pacific-Watersheddian, I'd say the Continental Divide makes
a
>nice dividing line....
>
>Were you in this froup yet when I told about explaining to a neighbor why
there
>were no beaches in Arizona?...
Good point about the watershed division. I suspect that is a west coast /
California perspective. I think that people in the east kind of relate to
the Lewis and Clark view of the US -- the Mississippi River is the starting
point to the "rest" of the US.
The only thing I know about beaches in Arizona relates to Lex Luthor's plan
in the Superman movie.
eos...@my-deja.com
gbe...@interpath.com (Gerald Belton) wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:12:50 -0000, "Taiwan Beer" <be...@taiwan.com.tw>
>
> >Is it true then that only 2% of US citizens have passports? This is
a figure
> >I have seen bandied about in discussions on this topic.
> In the 70's about 4 million
> passports were issued per year, and that number grew to over 6 million
> last year.
Austrian passports last 10 years - is that the case with Usaian ones?
That would give a total figure of about 15percent-or-so
Today's lo-cal paper claimed that only 1/3 of US Congresspersons own
passports - a figure I would have thought even more surprising than the
small number of generally owned ones.
Over here it's a commonplace of political insult that guvmint persons
all get some <bignum> amount of money per year for 'study trips' and
then use it for barely disguised government funded holidays in exotic
places like hawaii or florida or ... ermmmm .....
emma "ok maybe they don't need passports after all" osman
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
dr...@panix.com
> Frankly, I'm surprised it's even that high. The United States is a
> Very Big Place. Travel inside the US, or to our nearest neighbors,
> does not require a passport. An American who must have a passport is
> going on a very long journey indeed.
M3 T00.
One thing that always surprises me when I take foreign students places
in the US is thir reaction when we drive for 4 or 5 days and
are still in the US. They always know it intellectually, but
the reality is still a surprise.
A friend from Holland once remarked, on a drive from Nashville to
Indiana "We'd be in France by now if we'd left from my hometown
in Holland. We can drive through several countries in one day."
Yes, TUSIAVBP. And most all kinds of terrain can be found herein. So
travel outside the US is rare. When we do, I'd bet that we tend to
go to Canada and Mexico.
Andrew
coch...@my-deja.com
R H Draney <dado...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Moreover, rain falling on Chicago will eventually find its way into
the Atlantic
> Ocean...as will rain falling on Minot, North Dakota...as a native
Californian
> and a lifelong Pacific-Watersheddian, I'd say the Continental Divide
makes a
> nice dividing line....
Well, there is a third possibility. Rain falling on the lovely city of
Minot will actually find its way into the Mouse River, thence north to
Manitoba and into the Assiniboine, then it will flow via the Red River,
Lake Winnipeg and the Nelson River to Hudson Bay. If you consider Hudson
Bay to be the Atlantic, then you are correct - although some argue this
to be the Arctic Ocean...
Don "of course, you can get to the Atlantic from there" Cochrane
Brian Cooke
> When I was onboard the U.S.S. America (CV-66) in 1981, heading
> eastward from the Atlantic, going through the Straits of Gibraltar,
> into the Mediterranean, I was standing on the 03 level gallery deck
> under the flight deck, on the starboard side, when I overheard two
> younger sailors discussing the land mass that could be seen off in
> the distance. One stated that it was Spain, the other thought that
> it was Portugal. In my busybodyness, I couldn't let that get by; I
> gently hinted that if one is on the starboard side of the ship,
> heading east into the Mediterranean, the land that you'll see is
> North Africa, Morocco to be specific. They both just gaped
> slack-jawed at me.
> Oh, well; I tried.
>
Perhaps one mistakenly thought that Cueta belongs to Portugal, and the
other was correctly stating that it belongs to Spain. And they both
gaped at you slack-jawed in amazement that you didn't realize that that
point of land in North Africa closest to Gibraltar actually is not part
of Morocco, but of Spain.
Brian "far-fetched explanations on request" Cooke
--
**********************************************
| A. Brian Cooke |
| Department of Civil Engineering |
| University of New Brunswick |
| http://www.unb.ca/civil/cooke/cooke.html |
**********************************************
m...@mcfi.org
hat...@bolt.sonic.net (David Hatunen) wrote:
> In article <Pine.GSU.4.05.991117...@garcia.efn.org>,
> Dr H <hiaw...@efn.org> wrote:
> > Whilst in graduate school many moons ago, I happened to be
> > sitting in the lounge of the school of music around this time of
> > year, where I over heard the following conversation between two
> > undergrad students (graduating seniors):
> > #1: "I'm going to stay with my boyfriend on the East Coast
> > for Thanksgiving."
> > #2: "Really? Where on the East Coast?"
> > #1: "Chicago."
> In all fairness, to many of us West Coasters anything east of the
> Mississippi is the East Coast, even when it isn't.
My wife and I live in New England, and can't even agree if
Pennsylvania is an East Coast state. It depends on how you define
the coastline.
There is a "New Chicago" in California, east of Sacramento. I don't
think it's on the coast of anything, however.
This thread reminds me of the old saw about Yankees:
To most people in the world, a Yankee is a North American.
To a North American, a Yankee is a US citizen.
To US citizens a Yankee is from the Northeast.
To someone from the Northeast, a Yankee is a New Englander.
To New Englanders, a Yankee is someone from Maine.
In Maine, a Yankee is a crotchety old man who wears a plaid shirt and
suspenders and lives on a mud road six miles from where the church
used to be.
And to a crotchety old man who wears a plaid shirt and suspenders and
lives on a mud road six miles from where the church used to be, there
aren't any true Yankees any more.
--
Michael Benveniste -- m...@mcfi.org
Any comments or statements made are not
necessarily those of any employer or client.
shanihn
> > OK, position in the US can be a relative term. My husband, from
> Chicago,
> > says he always considered Ohio to be part of the Northeast. I,
> from New
> > York state, always considered Ohio to be in the Midwest. To me,
> a state had
> > to be pretty darn close to, if not touching, the Atlantic Ocean
> to qualify
> > as "northeast".
> >
> > Chicago *is* east of the Mississippi River, which to me kind of
> divides the
> > east from "the rest". East coast, tho? Never.
> into the Atlantic
> Ocean...as will rain falling on Minot, North Dakota...as a native
> Californian
> and a lifelong Pacific-Watersheddian, I'd say the Continental
> Divide makes a
> nice dividing line....
> neighbor why there
> --
> "God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
> the Courage to change the things I can, and the Wisdom to know
> the difference...oh, and a pony!"
No beaches in Arizona? Hell, Arizona is just one big beach - without
the water, of course.
nancy g.
> M3 T00.
M3 3!!!1!
> One thing that always surprises me when I take foreign students
> places in the US is thir reaction when we drive for 4 or 5 days
> and are still in the US. They always know it intellectually, but
> the reality is still a surprise.
It's amazing how those gut feelings can override the intellectual
knowledge. And it's not just the furriners who do things like that.
I was visiting a friend in Virginia once and we happened to drive by
a local motel where the parking lot was full of state police cruisers.
He mentioned that there was a multiple-day seminar taking place for
the officers.
I was halfway through my surprised remarks about how generous the
Commonwealth of Virginia must be to actually put the officers up
in a motel overnight instead of having them travel back and forth
each day, as would be likely to happen in my state, before I noticed --
and then it took me *far* longer than it should have to interpret --
the way he was looking at me, first in puzzlement and then in amusement.
TUSIAVBP too. And book-smart doesn't mean common-sense-smart.
I still can't quite comprehend that the sun can rise and set at
different times in the same state.
nancy "Massachusetts, roughly 150 miles across" g.
Darren S. A. George
>On another "geographically challenged" note:
>I bought something via mailorder from New York State. The girl on the
>other end told me, "Oh, we don't ship out of the country." I live in
>New Mexico. It took me quite some time to convince her that I lived in
>the USofA.
You could have mailed her a license plate, which quite clearly says, "New
Mexico, USA". I think that's the only state which feels the need to add
USA on its car plates.
The Mad "Not an American, but knows where New Mexico is" Alchemist
http://members.xoom.com/madalch
Darren S. A. George
>A friend from Holland once remarked, on a drive from Nashville to
>Indiana "We'd be in France by now if we'd left from my hometown
>in Holland. We can drive through several countries in one day."
I knew some Dutch people who were visiting relatives in Newfoundland (but
not attending MUN), and planned to drive to Edmonton "for the day". I
don't have a map handy, but the distance is similar to that between New
York and Seattle.
Germans are always surprised when I tell them that my home province of
Alberta has less than 5% of the German population, but twice the surface
area.
The Mad Alchemist
http://members.xoom.com/madalch
The Sacristy
R H Draney <dado...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:38337AD7...@earthlink.net...
<hack/>
> Were you in this froup yet when I told about explaining to a neighbor why
there
> were no beaches in Arizona?....r
Yet.
Joe "Does this need a TWIAVBP?" Shair
Stephen Churchill
the following on 18 Nov 1999 15:58:06 GMT:
>dr...@panix.com wrote:
>
>>A friend from Holland once remarked, on a drive from Nashville to
>>Indiana "We'd be in France by now if we'd left from my hometown
>>in Holland. We can drive through several countries in one day."
>
>I knew some Dutch people who were visiting relatives in Newfoundland (but
>not attending MUN), and planned to drive to Edmonton "for the day". I
>don't have a map handy, but the distance is similar to that between New
>York and Seattle.
CIAVBP [1]. I'm originally from Newfoundland [2], and it would take
the entire day just to drive from one side of it to the other. I
should know, my wife, kids and I did it last Christmas. Then, just to
get off the island with your car, it's a 6 hour ferry ride [3] [4].
>Germans are always surprised when I tell them that my home province of
>Alberta has less than 5% of the German population, but twice the surface
>area.
>
Stephen "First Christmas off the Island coming up *sniffle*" Churchill
[1] "Canada Is A Very Big Place." Still the second largest country in
the world, second behind Russia (which, while smaller than the USSR,
is still pretty darn big).
[2] And yes, I too was once a MUN student. But I'm all better now.
[3] If you go in the summer, you can take a 16 hour ferry ride that
takes you more to the east coast of the island, but that wasn't an
option for us in the winter.
[4] The North Atlantic being what it is, though, we ended up on the
boat for jusy over 32 hours. After we boarded, we had to wait for the
weather to clear before the ferry could cross. It was more than a day
before we even left port... and we wern't able to get our car off the
boat and go anywhere.
________________________________
"An hour sitting with a pretty girl on a park bench passes like
a minute, but a minute sitting on a hot stove passes like an hour.
THAT'S relativity." -Albert Einstein
-------------------------------------------
stephen....@bigfoot.com ICQ#1806322
AFol...@webtv.net
"Darren S. A. George" <madalc...@canada.caribou.com> wrote:
> shanihn <smullina...@sprynet.com.invalid> wrote:
> >On another "geographically challenged" note:
> >I bought something via mailorder from New York State. The girl on
the
> >other end told me, "Oh, we don't ship out of the country." I live in
> >New Mexico. It took me quite some time to convince her that I lived
in
> >the USofA.
>
> You could have mailed her a license plate, which quite clearly says,
"New
> Mexico, USA". I think that's the only state which feels the need to
add
> USA on its car plates.
>
recurring misunderstanding. The tourist magazine _New Mexico_ has a
regular feature, "One Of Our States Is Missing," recounting instances
of this. Some of these stories have, I'm told, been compiled in a book
of the same name.
This confusion happens on the account number records the U.S. Social
Security Administration, too. The form SS-5, Application for Social
Security Number, asks for the applicant's state or country of birth.
Computer input of this datum takes the form of a two-letter code; by
itself, this represents a U.S. state, while a foreign country is
represented by two letters in conjunction with a single-position entry
in the Foreign Country Indicator (FCI) field. Thus, for example, CA
alone represents California, while CA plus an FCI represents Canada.
There is no foreign-country code of NM; however, records for people
born in New Mexico are frequently set up by Social Security service
representatives in other states with an FCI, either in conjunction with
the NM entry (which the enumeration system apparently does not, or
formerly did not, recognize as an invalid combination of data), or with
MX, the country code for Mexico. This can cause problems down the
line, since if the person later applies for a replacement card, a
correct place of birth entry will be alerted as inconsistent with the
FCI on the prior record, which must then be corrected manually.
Alan "never mind how I know this" Follett
David Hatunen
Ralph Jones <faf...@qwestinternet.net> wrote:
>Taiwan Beer wrote:
>
>> Is it true then that only 2% of US citizens have passports? This
>> is a figure I have seen bandied about in discussions on this
>> topic.
>
>costs us about a thousand dollars in airfare to reach a place we
>can't visit without a passport.
I don't know where you are, but I fly to the UK and Finland from
San Francisco from time to time and have never paid more than about
$800 even in high season. In off-season I can do much better.
British airways currently has a deal where I can fly roundtrip to
the UK and get three nights in a Russell Square area hotel for $579.
Maybe you need a new travel agent.
David Hatunen
>Chip "and "down South ain't California neither" Taylor
It is to me. LA to be specific.
Dan Drake
wrote:
> In article <Pine.GSU.4.05.991117...@garcia.efn.org>,
>..
> In all fairness, to many of us West Coasters anything east of the
> Mississippi is the East Coast, even when it isn't.
And any USAians (who else would care?) who don't get the point may
contemplate the term Midwest.
--
Dan Drake
d...@dandrake.com
http://www.dandrake.com
Charles A. Lieberman
eos...@my-deja.com
> Today's lo-cal paper claimed that only 1/3 of US Congresspersons own
> passports - a figure I would have thought even more surprising than the
> small number of generally owned ones.
Most congressbeings, I think, are sufficiently isolationist that this
doesn't surprise me. Note followups.
--
Charles A. Lieberman | "I guess you can't guarantee supernatural
Brooklyn, New York, USA | phenomena." --Rian, on AFU
http://members.tripod.com/~calieber/home.html
jeff...@my-deja.com
> (graduating seniors):
>
> #1: "I'm going to stay with my boyfriend on the East Coast
> for Thanksgiving."
>
> #2: "Really? Where on the East Coast?"
>
> #1: "Chicago."
>
> #2: "Cool!"
>
Maybe she meant the East Coast of Lake Michigan?
<Runs for cover>
shanihn
(David Hatunen) wrote:
> In article <383354B1...@qwestinternet.net>,
> Ralph Jones <faf...@qwestinternet.net> wrote:
> >Taiwan Beer wrote:
> >
> >> Is it true then that only 2% of US citizens have passports? This
> >> is a figure I have seen bandied about in discussions on this
> >> topic.
> >
> >I don't know the true figure, but 2% is eminently reasonable. It
> >costs us about a thousand dollars in airfare to reach a place we
> >can't visit without a passport.
> I don't know where you are, but I fly to the UK and Finland from
> San Francisco from time to time and have never paid more than about
> $800 even in high season. In off-season I can do much better.
> British airways currently has a deal where I can fly roundtrip to
> the UK and get three nights in a Russell Square area hotel for
> $579.
> Maybe you need a new travel agent.
> ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@sonic.net) ***********
> * Daly City California *
> ******* My typos are intentional copyright traps ******
I can actually find a flight from New Mexico to the UK cheaper than New
Mexico to my hometown in Florida. I'm paying almost $600 for the NM-FL
flight for Christmas. Glad I have passport.
Dan Fingerman
>I don't know where you are, but I fly to the UK and Finland from
>San Francisco from time to time and have never paid more than about
>$800 even in high season. In off-season I can do much better.
>British airways currently has a deal where I can fly roundtrip to
>the UK and get three nights in a Russell Square area hotel for $579.
Huh....and I pay $600+ to fly between home in California and college in
Connecticut. Maybe that's because my "round trip" always includes a 5-months
stay.
Dan "or maybe I'm just getting ripped off" Fingerman
Brian Cooke
> Germans are always surprised when I tell them that my home
> province of Alberta has less than 5% of the German population,
> but twice the surface area.
>
A factoid I use in my Waste Geotechnics course:
A building lot 50' x 100' can hold a house suitable for a family of
four. If you divide the province of Alberta up into such lots, with 4
people per lot, the entire population of the earth would be accomodated
in Alberta (back in the days when the population of the earth was 5.7
billion).
Brian "leaving the rest of the world available for landfills" Cooke
Paolo Trinchieri
>
> "Darren S. A. George" wrote:
>
> > Germans are always surprised when I tell them that my home
> > province of Alberta has less than 5% of the German population,
> > but twice the surface area.
> >
>
> A factoid I use in my Waste Geotechnics course:
> A building lot 50' x 100' can hold a house suitable for a family of
> four. If you divide the province of Alberta up into such lots, with 4
> people per lot, the entire population of the earth would be accomodated
> in Alberta (back in the days when the population of the earth was 5.7
> billion).
>
> Brian "leaving the rest of the world available for landfills" Cooke
That is very interesting. But where would they work and/or shop?
Paolo "needs more than just a place to live" Trinchieri
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
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Lee Rudolph
> Germans are always surprised when I tell them that my home
> province of Alberta has less than 5% of the German population,
> but twice the surface area.
It was still true as of the 1990 U.S. census (but I doubt it
is true now) that the population density of the Commonwealth
of Massachusetts was a bit greater than that of India.
Lee "ask me about the Black Hole of Worcester" Rudolph
Dennis `68
<Pine.GSU.4.05.99111...@garcia.efn.org>, Dr stated:
[...snip...]
> I grew up in New York, and to us the "midwest"
> began somewhere around Ohio. When I moved to Oregon I was rather
> astonished to hear Wyoming refered to as the "midwest" since where
> I grew up Wyoming was part of "the West." But *never* did I hear
> anyone refer to a Rocky Mountain state as the West *Coast* -- that
> was reserved for California (usually), Oregon, and Washington.
When I was living in Maryland, a friend of mine from Virginia refered
to my home state of Arkansas as "Out West". I heard this several times.
It IS west of the Mississippi River but it is only TWO states away from
from Maryland and one from Virginia. I call it Midsouth but some call it
southwest.
I always considered New Jersey and New York, Northeast, until I went to
Boston, which is really the Southernmost portion of the Northeast, I think.
I guess it depends on who you ask.
> While I have little problem with Chicago being refered to as "the
> East," it is by no stretch of the imagination on the East *Coast* of
> anything, not even Lake Michigan.
Speaking of Michigan, I wonder how much of this business goes back to the
19th century and the admission of Western States into the Union ? If you
hear the U. of Michigan's fight song, Hail to the Victors, when they say
the "Champions of the West", are they talking about Michigan being
considered West or winning the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, CA ?
I would LOVE to hear an explaination of that!
> I think it's a matter of education: there are people who think
> that Southern California is the whole of the "West Coast;" though
> I never have. And when people ask where I grew up I still find
> myself stressing *upstate* New York, lest they assume (as they often
> have) that New York = New York City.
So you grew in Albany ? Seriously, I have noticed many of the upstaters I have
met stress that.
> Oh well... for a real geographical challange try figuring out what's
> where in the Balkans from day to day. :-)
>
>Dr H
Now that is a challenge. The Balkans, the old Soviet Union, and now Indonesia.
From a geographical standpoint, it was very good to be in school during
the cold war before the breakup. I mean you have only on capital in Germany
to remember now but I would take two capitals in Germany, one in Yugoslavia,
and one in the Soviet Union any day!
===
Fertility is hereditary
...if your parents didn't have kids,
NEITHER WILL YOU !!!!!
Brian Cooke
>
> Brian Cooke wrote:
> >
> > "Darren S. A. George" wrote:
> >
> > > Germans are always surprised when I tell them that my home
> > > province of Alberta has less than 5% of the German population,
> > > but twice the surface area.
> > >
> >
> > A building lot 50' x 100' can hold a house suitable for a family of
> > four. If you divide the province of Alberta up into such lots,
> > with 4 people per lot, the entire population of the earth would
> > be accomodated in Alberta (back in the days when the population
> > of the earth was 5.7 billion).
> >
Saske^H^H^H^H^H Sass^H^H^H^H Saskats^H^H^H^H^H^H^H British Columbia.
Brian "duh" Cooke
Bossman
Ralph Jones wrote:
>
> Taiwan Beer wrote:
>
> > Is it true then that only 2% of US citizens have passports? This is a figure
> > I have seen bandied about in discussions on this topic.
>
> I don't know the true figure, but 2% is eminently reasonable. It costs us about
> a thousand dollars in airfare to reach a place we can't visit without a
> passport.
>
> rj
No friggen' way...Better get your passport...It is cheaper than you
think.
New York to London starting at $190
LA to Tokyo from $484.60!
Shit, ya can go to Paris from Chicago for around $500 on Air France!
All things considered is cheaper to travel outside of the United States
(considering the savings on hotels, food and ground transport in most
places).
Michael
Please direct e-mail to both of the following addresses :
mitc...@image-link.com
mitc...@att.net
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
David Hatunen
shanihn <smullina...@sprynet.com.invalid> wrote:
>No beaches in Arizona? Hell, Arizona is just one big beach - without
>the water, of course.
Arizona's beach is conveniently located in Mexico at Puerto
Penasco.
shanihn
<mitc...@image-link.com> wrote:
> Ralph Jones wrote:
> >
> > Taiwan Beer wrote:
> >
> > > Is it true then that only 2% of US citizens have passports?
> This is a figure
> > > I have seen bandied about in discussions on this topic.
> >
> > I don't know the true figure, but 2% is eminently reasonable. It
> costs us about
> > a thousand dollars in airfare to reach a place we can't visit
> without a
> > passport.
> >
> > rj
> No friggen' way...Better get your passport...It is cheaper than you
> think.
> New York to London starting at $190
> LA to Tokyo from $484.60!
> Shit, ya can go to Paris from Chicago for around $500 on Air
> France!
That's fine is you live in NY, LA, or Chicago. It costs me well over
$500 just to GET to NY or LA!
> All things considered is cheaper to travel outside of the United
> States
> (considering the savings on hotels, food and ground transport in
> most
> places).
> Michael
> Please direct e-mail to both of the following addresses :
> mitc...@image-link.com
> mitc...@att.net
> Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Every time a flame war between the USA and EU breaks out in other
> groups, someone always quotes the figure how 60%/70%/80% of college
> educated students from the USA can't find the USA on a world map.
>
> Surely this isn't really true?
Don't know about this one in particular, but I offer the following data:
For three years I taught geology in Deep East Texas. Every semester
I would give my students outline maps of the United States with the
major rivers shown and the states outlined. I would ask them to fill in
the names of as many states as they could. Over three years I
thus collected more than 600 such maps. Not a single student out of
that 600 could name all 48 states (the map did not show Alaska or
Hawaii), and only a handful were able to guess 46 out of 48. The
average (median) student was able to label only 9 or 10 states, and
a few were able to identify only three states (Texas, Florida, and
California).
Shortly before that I encountered a Geology graduate student who,
upon returning from Hawaii, told me that most of the people in
Hawaii were foreigners. He also asked why we let so many
Puerto Ricans into the country, and when I replied that they were
American citizens he said "Since when?".
As far as I can tell, the average American is very poorly educated.
I do not necessarily fault the school systems.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
Joe Boswell
>I can actually find a flight from New Mexico to the UK cheaper than New
>Mexico to my hometown in Florida. I'm paying almost $600 for the NM-FL
>flight for Christmas. Glad I have passport.
I have in my hand a plane ticket Aberdeen to London [i.e. UK internal
flight] return, cost 300UKP, equivalent to about $500 US, flight
duration 100 minutes each way [usually]. It seems that the ticket price
bears no relation to the distance. I could easily fly to some sun-soaked
Mediterranean holiday resort and have a week's food and accommodation
thrown in for that sort of money.
--
Joe 'but where's the fun in that' Boswell
* If I cannot be free I'll be cheap
[spam block - take the micky from the address or it won't work]
Yehuda Naveh
> A factoid I use in my Waste Geotechnics course:
> A building lot 50' x 100' can hold a house suitable for a family of
> four. If you divide the province of Alberta up into such lots, with 4
> people per lot, the entire population of the earth would be accomodated
> in Alberta (back in the days when the population of the earth was 5.7
> billion).
I'm probably biased, but I like my dad's estimate better: With a
reasonably comfortable grave being 2.5x1.5 meters, you could just about
lay all 6 billion of us in the tiny State of Israel (proper!), leaving the
rest of the world free for all other creatures.
Kind of makes you think about all the volume we take by flapping our hands
and legs.
Yehuda
David Brooks
>>> Is it true then that only 2% of US citizens have passports?
A search of the State Department Web site finds a Sept. 1997 , press release
that says the Office of Passport Services had just issued its six millionth
passport since during the 1997 fiscal year.
Two percent of - what's the US populations now, anyway? 270 million? - 270
million is 5.4 million. If all 5 million of those passports were reissues of
expired passports, the 2 percent figure seems about right, but I doubt
that's the case. (Passports last 10 years.) So that seems to throw doubt on
the 2 percent figure.
The press release also says "more than 40 million Americans travel abroad
each year," although I imagine that includes day trips to Canada and Mexico.
Chad Nilep
Andrea Jones wrote in message ...
>
>Ken Nicolson wrote in message ...
>>Every time a flame war between the USA and EU breaks out in other
>>groups, someone always quotes the figure how 60%/70%/80% of college
>>educated students from the USA can't find the USA on a world map.
>>
[snip]
>I can offer some anecdotal evidence from my time in boot camp. Most of the
>recruits in my division or my brother division were not from Illinois.
>About half of them had absolutely no clue where Chicago, Illinois was in
>relation to their points of origin. The ages in the two divisions (about
>120 recruits total, by the end) ranged from 17 to 33. The recent high
>school graduates seemed to have the most difficulty realizing that they
>wouldn't be making any weekend trips home to California. If so many failed
>to have any grasp of the internal geography of their own damn country, how
>can we expect that they'd have any grasp of the external geography?
>
I don't think that it naturally follows, however, that volken with poor
understanding of geography "can't find the USA on a world map." While
someone from California may be unable to find Illinois on a map of North
America, this same someone, being an USAn, may be able to find the USA on a
world map.
Chad "but how many Earthlings can find our solar system on a map of the
galaxy?" Nilep
---------------------
"I can't be quite sure what you're asking, since I did not see the original
post. However, I will hazard a guess.." --KD, who may or may not be
reading this
Erich
<dado...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Charles Wm. Dimmick" wrote:
>
> > Shortly before that I encountered a Geology graduate student who,
> > upon returning from Hawaii, told me that most of the people in
> > Hawaii were foreigners. He also asked why we let so many
> > Puerto Ricans into the country, and when I replied that they were
> > American citizens he said "Since when?".
>
> ObScrabble: if Hawaii is a state, how can "aloha" be a foreign word?....
>
> R H "I got 'yatahey' on a triple-word score" Draney
Be sure to get a Visa before going to New Mexico. A Mastercard will also work.
... Erich "Do you need reservations to visit one?" Oetting
--
Remove the .spambegone in my address to send email.
Lara Hopkins
>Germans are always surprised when I tell them that my home province of
>Alberta has less than 5% of the German population, but twice the surface
>area.
Feh, send 'em down here.
Lara "2% of the German population, seven times the surface area" Hokpins
David Hatunen
>In article <Pine.GSU.4.05.991117...@garcia.efn.org>,
> Dr H <hiaw...@efn.org> wrote:
>
>> (graduating seniors):
>>
>> #1: "I'm going to stay with my boyfriend on the East Coast
>> for Thanksgiving."
>>
>> #2: "Really? Where on the East Coast?"
>>
>> #1: "Chicago."
>>
>> #2: "Cool!"
>>
>Maybe she meant the East Coast of Lake Michigan?
>
><Runs for cover>
Sigh...
Please tell me that was a troll and you weren't really showing off
your own geographic ignorance.
McCaffertA
writes:
>It was still true as of the 1990 U.S. census (but I doubt it
>is true now) that the population density of the Commonwealth
>of Massachusetts was a bit greater than that of India.
>
>Lee "ask me about the Black Hole of Worcester" Rudolph
Is this a Gladstone joke?
Dan Evans
wrote:
>Taiwan Beer wrote:
>
>> Is it true then that only 2% of US citizens have passports? This is a figure
>> I have seen bandied about in discussions on this topic.
>
>I don't know the true figure, but 2% is eminently reasonable. It costs us about
>a thousand dollars in airfare to reach a place we can't visit without a
>passport.
The last few times I have flown into and out of the US, US Customs
have demanded passports, even though the destinations were Canada or
Mexico.
**Dan Evans
**I am not your lawyer unless
**you have sent me a check.
R H Draney
> dr...@panix.com wrote:
> : A friend from Holland once remarked, on a drive from Nashville to
> : Indiana "We'd be in France by now if we'd left from my hometown
> : in Holland. We can drive through several countries in one day."
>
> "Europe is a place where 100 miles is a long distance.
> The USA is a place where 100 years is a long time."
West of Tucson there is a small "town" that was constructed in 1940 to film
movies (the first being "Arizona" starring Jean Arthur and introducing a young
William Holden)...this movie-studio-pretending-to-be-an-old-west-town is
called "Old Tucson", and when they're not actually filming, it doubles as a
theme park....
They used to run ads on the radio describing the experience as "five miles and
a hundred years away from town"...this has to seem somewhat ludicrous to
Europeans....r
--
"God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the Courage to change the things I can, and the Wisdom to know
the difference...oh, and a pony!"
R H Draney
Thomas Prufer
<dim...@ccsu.edu> wrote:
>Over three years I
>thus collected more than 600 such maps. Not a single student out of
>that 600 could name all 48 states (the map did not show Alaska or
>Hawaii), and only a handful were able to guess 46 out of 48. The
>average (median) student was able to label only 9 or 10 states, and
>a few were able to identify only three states (Texas, Florida, and
>California).
>
>As far as I can tell, the average American is very poorly educated.
>I do not necessarily fault the school systems.
>
I was talking to fellow when the converstion drifted to this topic,
and it turned out he knew the names and capitals of all the states of
the US. Not as a product of the school system: his parents had
promised him a penny (nickle?) for every state with capital capital he
could remember while the dentist went at it.
Thomas "stick and carrot" Prufer
Ken Nicolson
<dim...@ccsu.edu> wrote:
>Ken Nicolson wrote:
>
>> Every time a flame war between the USA and EU breaks out in other
>> groups, someone always quotes the figure how 60%/70%/80% of college
>> educated students from the USA can't find the USA on a world map.
>>
>> Surely this isn't really true?
>
>Don't know about this one in particular, but I offer the following data:
>For three years I taught geology in Deep East Texas. Every semester
>I would give my students outline maps of the United States with the
>major rivers shown and the states outlined. I would ask them to fill in
>the names of as many states as they could. Over three years I
>thus collected more than 600 such maps. Not a single student out of
>that 600 could name all 48 states (the map did not show Alaska or
>Hawaii), and only a handful were able to guess 46 out of 48. The
>average (median) student was able to label only 9 or 10 states, and
>a few were able to identify only three states (Texas, Florida, and
>California).
I don't kno if that's a fair comparison - I'm sure if someone marked
out just the British - or even just the Scottish regions, I doubt if
you'd find many natives who could name them all. I certainly couldn't.
Mind you we keep getting regional reorganisation every 10 or so years,
so places keep disappearing and reappearing.
However, I have a lot of confidence (but no figures) that most British
could find themselves on a map.
>Charles Wm. Dimmick
Ken
Nick Spalding
> As far as I can tell, the average American is very poorly educated.
> I do not necessarily fault the school systems.
Who then?
--
Nick Spalding
Eiley
Ken Nicolson wrote in message ...
Aussie kids can find us on a map from a very early age. But then, we're a
humungous land mass all by ourselves (other than a few itty bitty land mass
neighbours) at the bottom of the world in an interesting shape, so I guess
that's not all that fair a comparison either.
eiley of oz
Bossman
shanihn wrote:
>
> In article <383469C6...@image-link.com>, Bossman
> <mitc...@image-link.com> wrote:
> > New York to London starting at $190
> > LA to Tokyo from $484.60!
> > Shit, ya can go to Paris from Chicago for around $500 on Air
> > France!
>
> That's fine is you live in NY, LA, or Chicago. It costs me well over
> $500 just to GET to NY or LA!
You need some travel lessons. I don't know where you live, but it does
not cost $500 'more' to get to a international gateway. I maintain my
claim that if you shop and prepare, you can get out of the U.S. from
anywhere in the U.S. for under $500.
One doesn't (shouldn't) buy a ticket to the gateway (the departure city
to another continent) separately from the transcontinental portion of
the ticket---That portion of the fair is added on to the base fare and
is usually negligible.
Though not relevent to your case as I don't know where you live...most
people in the U.S. live quite near an international gateway---there are
several on each coast, several in the Mid-West and South----I would
guess that 90% of U.S.ers are within a two hour drive to an
international gateway.
The cost of 'getting there' has not been a limiting factor for over
twenty years. Jeeze, tens of millions of poor students have gotten to
Europe since the 70's!
Further, the total costs involved in spending a week in any country
(other than the U.S.) is likely to be less than a week in the U.S. Think
about it: If you save $50 a day over (U.S. food costs), lodging and
transportation, a two week vacation buys you a free ticket.
Example: The Royal Hotel in Bangkok is a fine hotel, expect to pay 3-4
times more for a similar room in a major U.S. city
Rooms: 300 A/C, Ensuite private bathroom.
Facilities: Swimming pool, IDD phones, TV, mini-bar Videoteque,
conference/banquet rooms for 20-450 persons, & gift shops.
Dining & Entertainment: Western, Chinese/Thai, American style 24 hour
coffee shop and lobby bar with pianist.
Location: Adjacent to the Grand Palace, near boat jetty, allowing easy
access to the city's main attractions and nightlife,
All that for less than US$30 a night! I can spend a week in Asia for
less than a weekend in NY City.
As for the 2% figure (U.S. citizens who hold passports), it has to be
low. In one year ('98), over 21,000,000 people went overseas [1]
Here are overseas departure totals from the US for the last 10 years:
OVERSEAS (Travel to Canada/Mexico are not included)
14,443,000 14,791,000 15,990,000 14,521,000 15,965,000 17,102,000
18,149,000 19,059,000 19,786,000 20,494,000 21,117,000
Michael
Mark W. Schumann
Dan Evans <d...@evans-legal.com> wrote:
>The last few times I have flown into and out of the US, US Customs
>have demanded passports, even though the destinations were Canada or
>Mexico.
And if you don't have one?
shanihn
Here it also depends on departure and arrival locations. If I flew
from Dallas, Texas, to Atlanta, Georgia, (approx. 800miles) it would
cost a little of $100. Now, flying from Albuquerque, New Mexico, to
San Antonio, Texas (approx. 800miles, as well), it would cost almost
twice as much. The difference being that Dallas and Atlanta are huge
metropolitan areas, and Albuquerque and San Antonio are not. My
hometown in FL is little podunk place where the airport has two
terminals: outgoing, and incoming. I think 5 airlines fly in and out.
Bossman
shanihn wrote:
> Here it also depends on departure and arrival locations. If I flew
> from Dallas, Texas, to Atlanta, Georgia, (approx. 800miles) it would
> cost a little of $100. Now, flying from Albuquerque, New Mexico, to
> San Antonio, Texas (approx. 800miles, as well), it would cost almost
> twice as much. The difference being that Dallas and Atlanta are huge
> metropolitan areas, and Albuquerque and San Antonio are not. My
> hometown in FL is little podunk place where the airport has two
> terminals: outgoing, and incoming. I think 5 airlines fly in and out.
This is news?
Since deregulation, air fares have nothing/little to do with the
distance between two points. Jeeze, fares on the same flight are not the
same!
(They don't take the cost of fuel and divide it between the passengers.)
A fun trick is to pass a clipboard around a full flight and have each
person write down the price they paid for their ticket...it ain't like a
grocery cart leaving a store.
Sorry, I seem to get aggressive on Friday's.
shanihn
<mitc...@image-link.com> wrote:
> This is news?
> Since deregulation, air fares have nothing/little to do with the
> distance between two points. Jeeze, fares on the same flight are
> not the
> same!
> (They don't take the cost of fuel and divide it between the
> passengers.)
> A fun trick is to pass a clipboard around a full flight and have
> each
> person write down the price they paid for their ticket...it ain't
> like a
> grocery cart leaving a store.
> Sorry, I seem to get aggressive on Friday's.
> Michael
> Please direct e-mail to both of the following addresses :
> mitc...@image-link.com
> mitc...@att.net
> Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
I know fares aren't the same. I don't do the clipboard trick, because
I'm afraid I'll find someone who got a lower fare than me, and get
pissed off. Which would really be a tragedy, since I tend to get
extremely irritable when I fly.
Paolo Trinchieri
Michigan as Maine - Florida (Tampa side excluded) is on the East coast
to the Atlantic. I think the mistake is in the perspective, not the
geography. In other words:
New York is on the East Coast of the USA, but it is on the West Coast of
the Atlantic Ocean. Likewise, Chicago is on the East Coast of Illinois
relative to Lake Michigan, but on the west coast of Lake Michigan.
-Paolo "I depends on where you are standing" Trinchieri
David Hatunen wrote:
>
> In article <811q31$cfq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <jeff...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >Maybe she meant the East Coast of Lake Michigan?
> >
> Sigh...
>
> Please tell me that was a troll and you weren't really showing off
> your own geographic ignorance.
>
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
Lee
I don't like to generalize about "average Americans", but one very
common fault is the inability to assign responsibility appropriately.
The ultimate responsibility for the education of children lies in
the same hands as the responsibility for protecting them from
injury, providing medical care, and monitoring the sorts of things
they see on TV and in video games.
Lee "that's why we pay taxes" Boyle
Richard Tobin
Lara Hopkins <wa...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>Lara "2% of the German population, seven times the surface area" Hokpins
No wonder they annexed you in 1938.
-- Richard
--
Spam filter: to mail me from a .com/.net site, put my surname in the headers.
"The Internet is really just a series of bottlenecks joined by high
speed networks." - Sam Wilson
yu...@my-deja.com
spal...@iol.ie wrote:
> Charles Wm. Dimmick wrote:
>
> > As far as I can tell, the average American is very poorly educated.
> > I do not necessarily fault the school systems.
>
> Who then?
> Nick Spalding
>
I can speak to this at least anecdotally. My wife taught social studies
in parochial schools for many years, and we had three sons who have gone
through them also. WHen I was in school, we had at least three years
of both history and geography in grammar school. (but the legends on
the maps were in cuneiform then, so that may not count} The first time
my wife started teaching, late 60's, early seventies, they were
alternating semesters between history, geography, and civics/government
and calling it social studies. The time spent on geography at the
school my kids attended also decreased from the late 70's for the
oldest, to the early ninities for the youngest. By the time my wife
left teaching 3 years ago, they were down to one semester of geography
full time, and maps and things integrated into the history texts. I
recently had occasion to leaf through the last text she used and while
it did emphasize the effects of geography on the events of the world,
there was no real overview that would give one the background to locate
a random place.
Please don't twist the thread on this. I only mentioned parochial
schools to emphasize that these weren't schools in the bottom quartile
fo academic ratings.
There is considerably less emphasis on geography in the curricula here
than there was when you and I went to school, Charles.
Joe Yuska
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bossman
shanihn wrote:
> I know fares aren't the same. I don't do the clipboard trick, because
> I'm afraid I'll find someone who got a lower fare than me, and get
> pissed off. Which would really be a tragedy, since I tend to get
> extremely irritable when I fly.
There's and old saying that people lie about how 'much' they paid for
their house and how 'little' they paid for their car...
As for your mood on the flight? Valium.
Richard Tobin
Ken Nicolson <kenn...@gol.com> wrote:
>I don't kno if that's a fair comparison - I'm sure if someone marked
>out just the British - or even just the Scottish regions, I doubt if
>you'd find many natives who could name them all.
I wouldn't be surprised if many Scots didn't know which region they
lived in - or even that Scotland was divided into regions. It's
hardly a subject that comes up conversation.
barbara_n
wrote:
>In article <FLD5r...@news.boeing.com>, Chip Taylor <ch...@xwb.com> wrote:
>
>>Chip "and "down South ain't California neither" Taylor
>
>It is to me. LA to be specific.
Where I live, which is NORTH of LA, the local people speak of going
"up" to LA. (I suppose because of the 4,000 ft. climb, but you still
have to come down on the other side.)
Barbara N.
K. D.
Eiley wrote in message ...
>Aussie kids can find us on a map from a very early age. But then, we're a
>humungous land mass all by ourselves (other than a few itty bitty land mass
>neighbours) at the bottom of the world in an interesting shape, so I guess
>that's not all that fair a comparison either.
Gee, I thought "you guys" (Northern for "y'all") used those funny looking
maps that had Australia in the upper half of the globe and the rest of us
"down under". That style sure does result in a lot more water in the upper
half, and a lot more land in the lower half than the Euro- and USA-centric
style.
shanihn
<mitc...@image-link.com> wrote:
> shanihn wrote:
> > I know fares aren't the same. I don't do the clipboard trick,
> because
> > I'm afraid I'll find someone who got a lower fare than me, and
> get
> > pissed off. Which would really be a tragedy, since I tend to get
> > extremely irritable when I fly.
> There's and old saying that people lie about how 'much' they paid
> for
> their house and how 'little' they paid for their car...
> As for your mood on the flight? Valium.
Great! Are you going to write the prescription for me? (Forgive me,
I'm getting irritable just thinking about getting on a plane the day
before Thanksgiving).
> Michael
> Please direct e-mail to both of the following addresses :
> mitc...@image-link.com
> mitc...@att.net
> Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
Paolo Trinchieri
> Gee, I thought "you guys" (Northern for "y'all") used those funny looking
> maps that had Australia in the upper half of the globe and the rest of us
> "down under". That style sure does result in a lot more water in the upper
> half, and a lot more land in the lower half than the Euro- and USA-centric
> style.
I had a map like that once, but the printer must have made a mistake.
All the names and labels were printed up-side down.
Phil Edwards
wrote:
>They used to run ads on the radio describing the experience as "five miles and
>a hundred years away from town"...this has to seem somewhat ludicrous to
>Europeans....r
Heh. Let me tell you about the New Orleans tour guide.
Phil "on second thoughts, don't" Edwards
--
Phil Edwards http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/amroth/
"There was no hammer and sickle."
- Andrea Jones shaves the hamster
Phil Edwards
<dim...@ccsu.edu> wrote:
>Every semester
>I would give my students outline maps of the United States with the
>major rivers shown and the states outlined. I would ask them to fill in
>the names of as many states as they could. Over three years I
>thus collected more than 600 such maps. Not a single student out of
>that 600 could name all 48 states (the map did not show Alaska or
>Hawaii), and only a handful were able to guess 46 out of 48.
Did they miss the same two?
>The
>average (median) student was able to label only 9 or 10 states, and
>a few were able to identify only three states (Texas, Florida, and
>California).
I'll go to four. The square one in the middle is Kansas. (A good place
to start the revolution, according to a Maoist I once knew.)
Phil "we were young, we were stupid, we were ideologically sound"
Colleen M Sullivan
> Gerald Belton <gbe...@interpath.com> wrote:
>
> > Frankly, I'm surprised it's even that high. The United States is a
> > Very Big Place. Travel inside the US, or to our nearest neighbors,
> > does not require a passport. An American who must have a passport is
> > going on a very long journey indeed.
>
>
> M3 T00.
>
> One thing that always surprises me when I take foreign students places
> in the US is thir reaction when we drive for 4 or 5 days and
> are still in the US. They always know it intellectually, but
> the reality is still a surprise.
Parts of the US itself are like that, too. For instance, from where I grew
up in New England, a northbound drive of 6-8 hours, depending on traffic,
would plant you frimly in Canada. A southbound drive of about 8 hours or
more would transverse several states, and was an obect of debate in terms
of wasting vacation time sitting in the car vs. the expense of flying.
However, for a close friend of mine who grew up in the San Joaquim Valley
(sp?) of California, a six hour drive to go to San Francisco for the day
was thought nothing of. The fact that it takes more than a day to drive
across texas kinda boggles my mind.
cms - but mebbe I'm jus' provincial
shanihn
Oh yes. I drove across Texas (East to West) this summer. It is not a
fun drive. It is Hell. Really.
Mike Holmans
link.com> decided to impart
>All things considered is cheaper to travel outside of the United States
>(considering the savings on hotels, food and ground transport in most
>places).
As long as "most places" does not include Europe, that is.
Mike "and you don't let the garishly-coloured money confuse you about
the currency's real value" Holmans
--
"brain meltdown" - K. D.'s flash of self-knowledge
http://www.urbanlegends.com is essential to the understanding of AFU
Lee Rudolph
>to start the revolution, according to a Maoist I once knew.)
>
>Phil "we were young, we were stupid, we were ideologically sound"
>Edwards
But you spelled "evolution" with an "r".
Lee "no oysters in Kansas" Rudolph
Bossman
Mike Holmans wrote:
>
> In article <383469C6...@image-link.com>, Bossman <mitchvis@image-
> link.com> decided to impart
> >All things considered is cheaper to travel outside of the United States
> >(considering the savings on hotels, food and ground transport in most
> >places).
>
> As long as "most places" does not include Europe, that is.
>
> Mike "and you don't let the garishly-coloured money confuse you about
> the currency's real value" Holmans
> --
> "brain meltdown" - K. D.'s flash of self-knowledge
Gee, who am I to argue with jackalope.demon.co.uk ? But, you're scarin'
people!
I would include Europe and The UK but they are not as 'cheap' as Asia!.
First, ya can use public tranportation there---how many cities here
allow travel without a car (plus the railpasses are a great deal).
Second, there is moderate lodging at moderate prices---Yeah, London and
Paris are higher than Norwich or Quimper but ya still get a better deal
than in New York City or San Fran*. In Urban America a lower priced
hotel means trouble or at least rougher neighborhood. Food? Yes, even
the British have better food (though a vindaloo is at the top of my
list) than the states.
No, ya don't have to back-pack in Europe or Britain to save bucks,
however if U.S.n's don't expect a hotel to be a cruise ship they'll be
fine. Sure it takes a bit of planning...the Frommer guides, Lonely
Planet and even Let's Go! offer some great advice. Or write me...
I simply meant that 'cost' is not the reason U.S.n's do not travel.
Sorry you haven't found it more affordable...maybe you know 'tooo
much'! (You would probably never stay in Bayswater, eh?...)
Simon Slavin
Paolo Trinchieri <mep...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Brian Cooke wrote:
>
> > A building lot 50' x 100' can hold a house suitable for a family of
> > four. If you divide the province of Alberta up into such lots, with 4
> > people per lot, the entire population of the earth would be accomodated
> > in Alberta (back in the days when the population of the earth was 5.7
> > billion).
>
> That is very interesting. But where would they work and/or shop?
Ohio.
Simon.
--
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk | John Peel:
No junk email please. | [My daughter] has modelled herself on you.
| Courtney Love:
| Oh, I'm so sorry.
David Hatunen
Phil Edwards <amr...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:06:52 -0500, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
><dim...@ccsu.edu> wrote:
>
>>Every semester
>>I would give my students outline maps of the United States with the
>>major rivers shown and the states outlined. I would ask them to fill in
>>the names of as many states as they could. Over three years I
>>thus collected more than 600 such maps. Not a single student out of
>>that 600 could name all 48 states (the map did not show Alaska or
>>Hawaii), and only a handful were able to guess 46 out of 48.
>
>Did they miss the same two?
>
>>The
>>average (median) student was able to label only 9 or 10 states, and
>>a few were able to identify only three states (Texas, Florida, and
>>California).
>
>to start the revolution, according to a Maoist I once knew.)
Uh. Kansas ain't square [1]. But Colorado is rectangular.
[1] Geometrically/geographically speaking, that is.
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@sonic.net) ***********
* Daly City California *
******* My typos are intentional copyright traps ******
Nina Neudorfer
Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie> wrote
> Charles Wm. Dimmick wrote:
>
> > As far as I can tell, the average American is very poorly educated.
> > I do not necessarily fault the school systems.
>
> Who then?
Well, I recently saw a news segment where a general information quiz was
given to a group of USAan elementary school teachers. Several could not
identify European countries, one thought that Brazil was a province of
China.
Wandering slightly afield... When I was unemployed seven years ago, I went
to a temporary agency, where I was given several timed tests. One was a
hundred basic arithmatic problems, adding columns of numbers, percentages,
fractions, etc. The woman giving the tests was surprised by me, noone had
answered every problem correctly before.
--
Nina "and yes, they *had* been in business longer than a week "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Ninth Grade Proficeincy Tests 10/30"
----marquee at South High School, Cleveland, OH
Steve Jones
>
> In article <38346101...@yahoo.com>,
> Paolo Trinchieri <mep...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Brian Cooke wrote:
> >
> > > A building lot 50' x 100' can hold a house suitable for a family of
> > > four. If you divide the province of Alberta up into such lots, with 4
> > > people per lot, the entire population of the earth would be accomodated
> > > in Alberta (back in the days when the population of the earth was 5.7
> > > billion).
> >
> > That is very interesting. But where would they work and/or shop?
>
> Ohio.
>
If I have to live in Alberta, I think I'd rather shop in Saskatchewan.
Steve "or maybe B.C." Jones
Paolo Trinchieri
>
> In article <383469C6...@image-link.com>, Bossman <mitchvis@image-
> link.com> decided to impart
> >All things considered is cheaper to travel outside of the United States
> >(considering the savings on hotels, food and ground transport in most
> >places).
>
> As long as "most places" does not include Europe, that is.
If you shop around, you can do Europe also. Last March I took my wife
to Paris for her birthday. We left Thursday and flew back on Monday.
Roundtrip air for the two of us, $650 (taxes incld). Four nights stay
in a hotel near Sorbonne (easy walk to Notre Dame, Louvre, etc...)
$180. Basically, transportation and lodging alone was $830 for the two
of us. However, if you want to try that during peak season, I wish you
good luck.
-Paolo "Eurpope on $10 (give or take $100) a day" Trinchieri
shanihn
<mitc...@image-link.com> wrote:
> Mike Holmans wrote:
> >
> > In article <383469C6...@image-link.com>, Bossman
> <mitchvis@image-
> > link.com> decided to impart
> > >All things considered is cheaper to travel outside of the
> United States
> > >(considering the savings on hotels, food and ground transport
> in most
> > >places).
> >
> > As long as "most places" does not include Europe, that is.
> >
> about
> > the currency's real value" Holmans
> > --
> > "brain meltdown" - K. D.'s flash of self-knowledge
> Gee, who am I to argue with jackalope.demon.co.uk ? But, you're
> scarin'
> people!
> I would include Europe and The UK but they are not as 'cheap' as
> Asia!.
> First, ya can use public tranportation there---how many cities here
> allow travel without a car (plus the railpasses are a great deal).
> Second, there is moderate lodging at moderate prices---Yeah,
> London and
> Paris are higher than Norwich or Quimper but ya still get a better
> deal
> than in New York City or San Fran*. In Urban America a lower priced
> hotel means trouble or at least rougher neighborhood. Food? Yes,
> even
> the British have better food (though a vindaloo is at the top of my
> list) than the states.
Where in the US have you been eating? The US has a fantastic array of
foods (yes, most are ethnic varieties from elsewhere). I have not
found most British food appealing. It seems to lack in flavor.
> No, ya don't have to back-pack in Europe or Britain to save bucks,
> however if U.S.n's don't expect a hotel to be a cruise ship
> they'll be
> fine. Sure it takes a bit of planning...the Frommer guides, Lonely
> Planet and even Let's Go! offer some great advice. Or write me...
> I simply meant that 'cost' is not the reason U.S.n's do not travel.
> Sorry you haven't found it more affordable...maybe you know 'tooo
> much'! (You would probably never stay in Bayswater, eh?...)
> Please direct e-mail to both of the following addresses :
> mitc...@image-link.com
> mitc...@att.net
> Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> "Charles Wm. Dimmick"<dim...@ccsu.edu> wrote:
> >. Not a single student out of
> >that 600 could name all 48 states (the map did not show Alaska or
> >Hawaii), and only a handful were able to guess 46 out of 48.
>
> Did they miss the same two?
You know, this was back around 1967-1970. I don't remember
for sure, but the most common error for the better students was
to reverse Vermont and New Hampshire. Second most common
was to reverse Kansas and Nebraska. Third most common was
to be unable to identify Delaware and/or Rhode Island.
> >average (median) student was able to label only 9 or 10 states, and
> >a few were able to identify only three states (Texas, Florida, and
> >California).
>
> I'll go to four. The square one in the middle is Kansas.
If by "square" you mean having four sides meeting at right
angles the only two that qualify are the almost perfectly
rectangular Colorado and Wyoming ("almost" because
a close look at the survey lines will show that even with
these two the sides are not perfectly straight).
Charles
"And some rin up hill and down dale, knapping
the chucky stanes to pieces wi' hammers, like
sae mony road-makers run daft -- they say it is
to see how the warld was made!"
Chris W.
"Mark W. Schumann" wrote:
>
> In article <jMc0OBF8T97qR7...@4ax.com>,
> Dan Evans <d...@evans-legal.com> wrote:
> >The last few times I have flown into and out of the US, US Customs
> >have demanded passports, even though the destinations were Canada or
> >Mexico.
>
> And if you don't have one?
In Canada a birth certificate plus a state or federal issued ID will
suffice. Not sure about *internal* Mexico but within the free tourist
zones a drivers licence plus B.C. will do.
I don't have a passport from any of those countries and pass into each
on a regular basis.
Chris Webb
R H Draney
> You know, this was back around 1967-1970. I don't remember
> for sure, but the most common error for the better students was
> to reverse Vermont and New Hampshire. Second most common
> was to reverse Kansas and Nebraska. Third most common was
> to be unable to identify Delaware and/or Rhode Island.
VT/NH is one of my two weak spots too...the other is Tennessee/Kentucky
for some reason...I wonder how many insisted on trying to give two
different names to Michigan....
> > I'll go to four. The square one in the middle is Kansas.
>
> If by "square" you mean having four sides meeting at right
> angles the only two that qualify are the almost perfectly
> rectangular Colorado and Wyoming ("almost" because
> a close look at the survey lines will show that even with
> these two the sides are not perfectly straight).
Add Utah and you have the only three states whose boundaries are made
entirely of geometric (rather than geographic) lines...(the parts that are
not "straight" are nonetheless made up of such artificial things as
township and range boundaries)...once you establish this for an observer,
ask them to find out what states have NO geometric lines in their
silhouettes....
R H "isn't there a demographic shorthand that refers to 'big square
states'?" Draney
David Hatunen
Mike Holmans <pos...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <383469C6...@image-link.com>, Bossman <mitchvis@image-
>link.com> decided to impart
>>All things considered is cheaper to travel outside of the United States
>>(considering the savings on hotels, food and ground transport in most
>>places).
>
>As long as "most places" does not include Europe, that is.
>
>Mike "and you don't let the garishly-coloured money confuse you
>about the currency's real value" Holmans
Nor the toy-like coins, some of which are worth considerably more
than a quarter, or a silver dollar for that matter.
David Martin
>
> "Charles Wm. Dimmick" wrote:
> > If by "square" you mean having four sides meeting at right
> > angles the only two that qualify are the almost perfectly
> > rectangular Colorado and Wyoming ("almost" because
> > a close look at the survey lines will show that even with
> > these two the sides are not perfectly straight).
>
> Add Utah and you have the only three states whose boundaries are made
> entirely of geometric (rather than geographic) lines...(the parts that are
> not "straight" are nonetheless made up of such artificial things as
> township and range boundaries)...
What about New Mexico? On my cheapass atlas it looks like its
borders are all geometric, but I can't see the detail at
the Texas border near El Paso. Does it follow the Rio Grande
there?
> once you establish this for an observer,
> ask them to find out what states have NO geometric lines in their
> silhouettes....
Other than Hawaii? My atlas makes it look like the borders
of all of the states in the continental US have at least
some segments that are not geographic lines.
David " gotta get a new atlas" Martin
Dr H
On Thu, 18 Nov 1999, nancy g. wrote:
}I was halfway through my surprised remarks about how generous the
}Commonwealth of Virginia must be to actually put the officers up
}in a motel overnight instead of having them travel back and forth
}each day, as would be likely to happen in my state, before I noticed --
}and then it took me *far* longer than it should have to interpret --
}the way he was looking at me, first in puzzlement and then in amusement.
}
}TUSIAVBP too. And book-smart doesn't mean common-sense-smart.
}I still can't quite comprehend that the sun can rise and set at
}different times in the same state.
}
}nancy "Massachusetts, roughly 150 miles across" g.
Indeed. The first time I drove east-to-west across the country
I marveled at the fact that in the first day I left New York, drove
through Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and stopped in Iowa.
The second day I drove through Iowa and /most/ of Nebraska.
They makes them states bigger out west, fer sure.
Dr H
Dr H
On 18 Nov 1999, Dennis `68 wrote:
}On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:36:50 -0800, in article
}<Pine.GSU.4.05.99111...@garcia.efn.org>, Dr H stated:
[...]
}
}> I think it's a matter of education: there are people who think
}> that Southern California is the whole of the "West Coast;" though
}> I never have. And when people ask where I grew up I still find
}> myself stressing *upstate* New York, lest they assume (as they often
}> have) that New York = New York City.
}
}So you grew in Albany ? Seriously, I have noticed many of the upstaters I have
}met stress that.
Heh, thus pointing out that the meaning of "upstate" can vary as well.
Binghamton, actually, though I lived in the Albany/Troy area before
migrating west.
Dr H
Dr H
On Fri, 19 Nov 1999, R H Draney wrote:
}ObScrabble: if Hawaii is a state, how can "aloha" be a foreign word?....
Who says it is? Do you consider words in Navajo foreign?
Non-english, certainly, but ...
Dr H
Mike Holmans
link.com> decided to impart
>Mike Holmans wrote:
>> In article <383469C6...@image-link.com>, Bossman <mitchvis@image-
>> link.com> decided to impart
>> >All things considered is cheaper to travel outside of the United States
>> >(considering the savings on hotels, food and ground transport in most
>> >places).
>>
>> As long as "most places" does not include Europe, that is.
>
>people!
I have a name, you know. If you want to argue with our hostname, you're
welcome to try, though.
>
>I would include Europe and The UK but they are not as 'cheap' as Asia!.
>First, ya can use public tranportation there---how many cities here
>allow travel without a car (plus the railpasses are a great deal).
True enough.
>Second, there is moderate lodging at moderate prices---Yeah, London and
>Paris are higher than Norwich or Quimper but ya still get a better deal
>than in New York City or San Fran*. In Urban America a lower priced
>hotel means trouble or at least rougher neighborhood.
I beg to differ. A couple of years ago I stayed in San Fran for USD45 a
night in a hotel whose location and facilities were very similar to the
part of Central London where I live. The similar hotels around here are
at least USD100 a night. In Texas and Oklahoma, Lizz and I have been
paying about USD55 a night in Super 8 hotels; for that kind of price in
a small town in England, you'd be in accommodation with worse facilities
(although the people who run the bed-and-breakfast joint may be more
charming than the Super 8 staff).
>Food? Yes, even
>the British have better food (though a vindaloo is at the top of my
>list) than the states.
Yes, if you're prepared to believe in an exchange rate of USD1 = GBP1.
Like-for-like in terms of quality, you'll pay a fair bit more in
UKoGBaNI than in the USA using the real exchange rate. The price list in
Pizza Hut is almost identical on both sides of the Atlantic, except that
there are pound signs on our menus and dollar signs on yours.
>
>No, ya don't have to back-pack in Europe or Britain to save bucks,
>however if U.S.n's don't expect a hotel to be a cruise ship they'll be
>fine. Sure it takes a bit of planning...the Frommer guides, Lonely
>Planet and even Let's Go! offer some great advice. Or write me...
>
>I simply meant that 'cost' is not the reason U.S.n's do not travel.
>Sorry you haven't found it more affordable...maybe you know 'tooo
>much'! (You would probably never stay in Bayswater, eh?...)
I wouldn't stay in Bayswater, no. We're the other side of Hyde Park, and
I'm not in the habit of staying in hotels a mile or two from home. I
used to live there, though.
I was merely saying that Europe is not cheaper than the USA, overall. My
experience of travelling on both sides of the pond is that the US is
rather less expensive for the same standard of food and comfort. Not
hugely, but enough to notice.
The dollar equals local unit of currency formula works in favour of
merkins who go to Austria, though, because the prices are numerically
the same while the Austrian dollar is only worth about 70c in merkin.
But then transpacific flights tend to cost quite a lot more than
transatlantic ones.
Mike "soon to go bussed" Holmans
--
"brain meltdown" - K. D.'s flash of self-knowledge
http://www.urbanlegends.com is essential to the understanding of AFU
Ralph Jones
> In article <383354B1...@qwestinternet.net>,
> Ralph Jones <faf...@qwestinternet.net> wrote:
> >Taiwan Beer wrote:
> >
> >> Is it true then that only 2% of US citizens have passports? This
> >> is a figure I have seen bandied about in discussions on this
> >> topic.
> >
> >I don't know the true figure, but 2% is eminently reasonable. It
> >costs us about a thousand dollars in airfare to reach a place we
> >can't visit without a passport.
>
> I don't know where you are, but I fly to the UK and Finland from
> San Francisco from time to time and have never paid more than about
> $800 even in high season. In off-season I can do much better.
> British airways currently has a deal where I can fly roundtrip to
> the UK and get three nights in a Russell Square area hotel for $579.
>
> Maybe you need a new travel agent.
Wow, I'm sure hearing from a lot of single guys.
rj
Alice Faber
<ei...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> Aussie kids can find us on a map from a very early age. But then, we're a
> humungous land mass all by ourselves (other than a few itty bitty land mass
> neighbours) at the bottom of the world in an interesting shape, so I guess
> that's not all that fair a comparison either.
But can they find Perth?
Alice "----->" Faber
--
"Would Jerry Springer sell ad space if he had Charles Dimmick as a typical
guest?" Madeleine Page analyzes popular culture and afu
I don't read crossposts...
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jonathan miller
> Chad "but how many Earthlings can find our solar system on a map of the
> galaxy?" Nilep
I know I can't.
Especially if you change perspective.
Jon "actually, in every map I've ever seen, our solar system is right at the tip
of the arrow" Miller