[INFO] The alt.folklore.urban style-guide v2.0.0
Simon Slavin
Dawn: My friend Sharon's older brother knows a girl who died
'cause she choked on her boyfriend's tongue. -- _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ Quinn: You could, like, see her brain. At least that's what Tiffany heard from Doug who heard it from Brenda, whose cousin works in the emergency room. Daria: At another hospital. In Belgium. -- _Daria_ TV animation Elaine: What a story ! I can't wait to embellish it. -- _Ally McBeal_
alt.folklore.urban exists to discuss urban folklore (also
known as urban legends). Don't just post urban legends to the
group: we're not trying to collect them, we're interested in
the type of stories that are out there and in how they spread
and change in the telling. If you don't have any information
to add, please don't just post another copy to the group.
Details are important. Your version might differ in detail
from the version we know. It might have a name, address or
phone number which had been stripped-off of the versions we've
seen. It may have spread out of the area we're used to seeing
it in or made the leap from one means of distribution to
another. /That/ is the stuff we're interested in. Also, the
/type/ of thing that is conveyed by urban legends: racism,
doubt about scientific advance, caution lest you be harmed by
strangers, whatever. If you have new urban legends which are
really just moral tales about these things, please tell us.
What is an urban legend ?
-------------------------
A legend is a story which
* has been retold through links rather than spread from a
single starting point
* (perhaps because of that) exists in more than one variation
An urban legend is a legend which
* is retold as if it's true
* has potential for further spread in an urban setting
Most ghost-stories fail the third requirement: they're retold
as spooky stories, not as if they're true. Almost all
conspiracy theories fails the second requirement: there is no
difference in the 'facts' in each retelling.
AFU exists to discuss urban legends. Because it can be
difficult to tell whether a tale /is/ an urban legend or not,
it sometimes discusses things which aren't urban legends and
doesn't stop discussing them just because they've been
identified as not being legendary. There are many other places
on the internet where you can discuss other things including
groups devoted to ghost-stories and conspiracy theories.
What to post
------------
Post anything about urban legends we haven't already seen and
you find interesting. Make sure you agree with us about what an
urban legend is.
If we're having a discussion already and you can educate us or
amuse us by posting something about the subject matter, please
do.
If you encounter a story which you suspect may be untrue and
have done the obvious checking to see whether we've talked about
it already, feel free to post about it to the group.
A discussion which starts about an urban legend often drifts
into other areas. This is called 'thread drift' and comprises
much of the traffic on the group. We have no problem with such
things as long as they don't drift into banned areas. If you
try to /start/ a thread about something which is not related to
urban folklore, however, you will probably meet with an
unfriendly reception.
Places to check for things which might be urban legends
-------------------------------------------------------
"I read the FAQ and it is great!" -- Eric Dickner
The FAQ for AFU is posted at least once a month to the group.
Read it: chances are that your question has been asked
frequently. We're in a transitional period right now where both
an old FAQ (twenty years old in places) and a new FAQ are being
posted. Read either one or both.
Our archive site (which includes a search-engine) is
There are many other worthwhile web sites which feature
discussion of urban legends so try a web search. Also, if your
urban legend is about an identifiable company's product, make
sure you check that company's own web site: many companies are
aware that rumour on the internet can cost them significant
sales and have made web pages analysing and disposing of urban
legends about their products.
You can check for past discussion in the group at
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
You can restrict Google's newsgroup search engine to just one
group by putting that group's name in the 'newsgroup' field.
What not to post
----------------
"Matters of religion should never be matters of
controversy. We neither argue with a lover about
his taste, nor condemn him, if we are just, for
knowing so human a passion."
-- George Santayana
Don't post to point out obvius errors: if they're obvious to
you then they're obvious to us. We know the difference
between Australia and Austria. We can tell voracity from
veracity. Those of us who care check our spelling. You're not
contributing if you post just to correct such errors. If you
think that one person has misunderstood something, contact them
by email.
Certain types of post are banned from AFU. The test is this: do
arguments about the subject often cause people to change their
minds ? If not, then don't post argument on that topic to AFU.
This covers a lot of ground including, but not limited to,
religion, politics, abortion and gun-control. Feel free to post
ULs about these subjects to AFU (complete with source and
analysis, of course) but please don't argue the validity of the
points of view involved or assert that one side is right or
wrong.
Since argument about religion and politics rarely convinces
people to convert from one religion to another or from one
political view to another, this constitutes a ban on attacking
or supporting the tenets of any religion or political theory on
AFU.
How to fit in with AFU
----------------------
AFU has its own ways of doing things: everything from dealing
with trolls to investigating urban legends has been reduced to
a formula over the years. Many people posting to the group
have been there for years: five or six years isn't unusual.
The group has developed its own humour and culture of in-jokes.
If you're new you will occasionally see things you don't
understand but after the second or third time you'll notice a
pattern about it and will figure-out what's going on.
On AFU the shibolleths aren't compulsary: nobody will correct
you if you use a word correctly. The shibolleth isn't actually
the strange way of using or spelling a word, it's the fact that
one does not post to correct someone else's obvious mistake: if
it's obvious, it's harmless.
The secret to understanding AFU (as with any culture) is to
be quiet and observe. Nobody will sneer at you if you fail to
post a follow-up: we'll assume you're still framing your
perfectly-worded reply, or that (as I'm told happens) you
suddenly acquired a social life and have better things to do
than post to AFU.
AFU places very high values on certain things: accuracy, proof
(or documentation in the case of non-provable things), humour
and good manners. Doing any one of these four things in a post
often makes it worthwhile.
Posting style
-------------
AFU uses quotes in natural order: new text goes below old text.
If you quote someone else's text, interlace bits of their post
with bits of yours. If you have no comment about something
they've written, don't quote it: no need to make your own post
pointlessly long. If in doubt, post according to RFC1855, the
Request For Comments which sets the standard for netiquette.
AFU is a plaintext group. Do not post in HTML or MIME. Do not
try to add attachments.
Usenet is not IRC
-----------------
Don't use IRC-style handles or obviously fake names. We have
no problem with people who pick a /nom de usenet/ and keep to
it but we have no reason to listen to anyone who, by using a
'handle' or a humorous pseudo-name shows that they consider
their post a throw-away remark which they needn't worry about
afterwards.
On IRC, people are waiting for your response in real time: if
you delay long enough to get it spelt right you may have missed
those magic few seconds when it would be funny. AFU does not
have this characteristic: you may think you're being clever
tossing off a fast response but most people who read AFU read
news offline: as far as they're concerned you've had something
like 24 hours to work out what to say. Try to make it look like
you put some thought into it.
"I go online sometimes. But everyone's spelling is really
bad. It's depressing."
-- Tara from _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_
"[On AFU] at least the abuse is spelled correctly."
-- Alan Follett
Care about your spelling and about explaining your point
clearly: this takes up the time of one person (you) but saves
the time of the several hundred (often over a thousand) people
who read it. Type initialisms like 'BTW' and 'OTOH' in full or
leave them out. Carpal tunnel syndrome and similar
disabilities are acceptable excuses for minimizing the amount of
typing one does. Laziness and lack of typing-time are not.
Be prepared to support your statements
--------------------------------------
Our casual day-to-day chat on AFU often identifies
inconsistencies in news reports, proves that prestigious
encyclopaedias are in error and points out that statements
printed on five continents violate the laws of physics. A
certain amount of responsibility goes with this: we have to take
ourselves seriously or the whole group would be pointless.
"Consider the possibility that people who disagree with
you may be doing so not because they know less than you
but because they know considerably more."
-- Deborah Stevenson
You're not expected to provide documentation for every
statement but if something you write is challenged it's your job
to provide proof or documentation. If you don't your post and
possibly any future posts you make will be ignored or, on a bad
day, ridiculed. AFU attracts experts in every area including
military, medical and legal. It also has readers who have
access to many reference sources. This makes the group a great
place to check out facts and a bad place to bullshit.
This shouldn't scare you off posting: you can distinguish
between stuff you know and stuff you read somewhere or, and this
is the big secret, you can apologise. People are wrong all the
time. Posting something wrong, then apologising when someone
points out an error is considered a sign that you can learn from
your mistakes.
We'll do your homework as long as you've done your homework
-----------------------------------------------------------
Sometimes literally: several universities have courses in urban
legends and we're happy to work with professionals. However,
whether you're doing homework or not, if you're asking a
question show us that you've made some sort of effort before you
decided to take up our valuable time. Here's the worst sort of
post:
From: Osama Bin Laden <nutz...@my.house>
Subject: urban legend
does anyone know anything about a man giving somone
a lift in their car and then they turn round and
their not there anymore? please email responses by
friday to sam...@hotmail.com because i don't read
this group. thanks
And here's the same thing done properly:
From: Sam York <sammi99.no.ju...@hotmail.com>
Subject: hitchiker who disappears
I'm doing some coursework on an old urban legend
about giving a stranger a lift in your car and then
finding out that the stranger wasn't real. I've
looked in www.urbanlegends.com and in www.snopes.com
and found some useful stuff. I also found a book
called The Vanishing Hitchhiker. I'm looking for
any really early reports of this, perhaps in the
horse and cart days. I'm also interested in any
particular roads that this has been reported about.
I'll carry on reading this group until my deadline
(which is Friday morning) or you can email them to
me.
Amuse us. And yourself. But we're more important.
---------------------------------------------------
"We're here for the dialogue, the byplay, the sights and the scenery (and an occasional duel out in the courtyard)." -- TMOliver
Few of us read AFU because it relates to our job; we're doing it
to relax at the end of the day, or to have a laugh, or to cheer
ourselves up. Threads which turn into long flamewars are
tiresome. If you realise that you've reduced the thread to an
argument between two people it might be best to take it to email.
"Many of AFU's group standards seem arbitrary and
inexplicable, but they do cleverly serve a very important
purpose: they filter out the bozos efficiently."
-- Joseph Nebus
Abbreviations
-------------
"BOP: It's a ban on boring, fucking stupid, inane arguments." -- dooglefish "A smiley adds nothing except an assumed lack of faith in your own discourse or condescension for your readership." -- Don Whittington
Adding 'Just kidding.' doesn't make it okay to insult the
Principal.
-- blackboard cut-scene from _The Simpsons_
"Speak softly and carry a big dic.."
-- TMOliver
Your post should be understandable by people outside your area
of specialization: few AFU readers have served in your branch of
the military, write computer programs, are active in your area
of politics and manufacture or deal in psychoactive drugs. If
you use an abbreviation or term that the average AFU reader
won't know, please define it. This is known as the Ban On
Acronyms.
It's okay to use any word or acronym defined in this document,
inside your post, earlier in the thread, or in most single-
volume dictionaries of the English language. It's acceptable
to expect a reader to consult an English dictionary if they are
to understand your post but don't extend this to the OED: if
your word isn't in most big dictionaries, please define it.
I've listed a few of AFU's commonly-used abbreviations below to
bring you up to speed. If someone uses one which you can't
find the definition to, feel free to ask them what it means.
AFU - alt.folklore.urban
BOA - Ban On using unexplained Acronyms
BOE - Ban On using Emoticons
BOR - Ban On arguing about Religion
BOMP - Ban On posting bits of Monty Python
BOP - Ban On arguing about Politics
F - false
Fb - believed false, but ...
FAQ - a list of Frequently Asked Questions
FOAF - friend of a friend (sometimes seen as 'FOAFOAF', etc.)
ISP - organization which provides connection to the Internet
JHB - author of some books on ULs -- see the FAQ
L - roughly that date (e.g. 1970s L == sometime in 1965-1985)
OED - Oxford English Dictionary (with supplements if you wish)
OED2 - the second edition of the OED
PPQ - Polite Persistent Questioning
T - true
Tb - believed true, but ...
TAFKAC - www.urbanlegends.com
TWIAVBP - "This may happen differently in other parts of the world."
UKoGBaNI - United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
UL - urban legend
URL - Uniform Resource Locator (usually a web page)
BO<something>:
The fact that the BOA, BOE and BOMP are mentioned above does
not mean that all mention of, for example, religion, is banned.
However, posts which violate these bans will meet with an
unfriendly reception. The BOE is encoded in the FAQ for the
group. An early Ban On Acronyms post can be found at
<http://www.urbanlegends.com/afu/guides/afu_boa.html> .
BOMP:
We've all seen the Python stuff too often. Not only don't we
need to see it retold, but
"Most people here can see a joke at 10 postings. No need
to remind them what humor is."
-- George Cayro
If, in a thread about weights or coconuts you see a reference
to a Swallow, that's enough to let us get the joke: we don't
need it expanded. Similarly, 'uphill both ways' is all we
need of that sketch. Don't labour the point.
L: Lasnerian
A reference to a certain Mr. Lasner who exhibited an
inaccurate grasp of the calendar. While the inspiration for
the term involved precision but inaccuracy, current use means
that the user considers the number(s) or date(s) given
imprecise.
TAFKAC: The Archive Formerly Known As Cathouse
The archives for materials found useful on AFU used to be kept
on an FTP server called 'cathouse.org'. Many posters wish to
commemorate and perpetuate this name in gratitude to those who
maintained this site and in memory of its excellence. Although
the archives are now accessible as www.urbanlegends.com, some
people use the name TAFKAC to refer to the archive site.
TWIAVBP: The World Is A Very Big Place
Derek Tearne claims to have devised this term (but not the
acronym for it) in 1992 Lasnerian.
"CAESAR: Pardon him, Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and
thinks that the customs of his tribe and
island are the laws of nature."
-- George Bernard Shaw,
_Caesar & Cleopatra_
Don't assume that things are done all over the world the way
they're done in your town/country/school/police-force/legal
system. If you're relating something that isn't universal,
please tell us the background. For example:
> I should mention that in Arizona these crimes are
> prosecuted as mail-fraud, since that covers anything
> that uses the US mail, even though they're actually
> perfectly normal confidence tricks and could be
> handled by State police.
Tim McDaniel
Simon Slavin <slavins.delete....@hearsay.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>alt.folklore.urban style-guide version 2.0.0^M^M
>Dawn: My friend Sharon's older brother knows a girl who^M died
>'cause she choked on her boyfriend's tongue.^M
>-- _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_^M^M Quinn: You could, like, see her
>brain. At least that's what^M Tiffany heard from Doug who
>heard it from Brenda,^M whose cousin works in the emergency
>room. ^M Daria: At another hospital. In Belgium.^M
>-- _Daria_ TV animation^M^M Elaine: What a story ! I can't wait to
>embellish it.^M -- _Ally
>McBeal_
And lots of other ^Ms embedded in lines, including
> "[On AFU] at least the abuse is spelled correctly."^M
>-- Alan Follett^M^MCare about your spelling and about explaining your
>point
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
TeaLady (Mari C.)
news:c9lksk$m98$1...@reader2.panix.com:
> In article <c9lk8e$gdh$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk>,
> Simon Slavin
> <slavins.delete....@hearsay.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>alt.folklore.urban style-guide version
>>2.0.0^M^M Dawn: My friend Sharon's older brother knows a
>>girl who^M died 'cause she choked on her
>>boyfriend's tongue.^M -- _Buffy
>>the Vampire Slayer_^M^M Quinn: You could, like, see her
>>brain. At least that's what^M Tiffany heard from
>>Doug who heard it from Brenda,^M whose cousin
>>works in the emergency room. ^M Daria: At another
>>hospital. In Belgium.^M -- _Daria_ TV
>>animation^M^M Elaine: What a story ! I can't wait to
>>embellish it.^M
>> -- _Ally McBeal_
>
> And lots of other ^Ms embedded in lines, including
>
>> "[On AFU] at least the abuse is spelled correctly."^M
>>
I didn't see any ^Ms. Maybe your reader is broke ? Or mine is.
--
TeaLady / mari conroy
"The adjectivisation of our nounal units will be greeted with
disconcertion by elders" Simon on the status of English as she
is spake.
Forget the clue by 4. I want an iron :
http://codesmiths.com/shed/things/clueiron/
Tim McDaniel
TeaLady (Mari C.) <spres...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I didn't see any ^Ms. Maybe your reader is broke ? Or mine is.
trn4 running directly on shell.panix.com
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
David Winsemius
> In article <Xns94FCC87...@130.133.1.4>,
> TeaLady (Mari C.) <spres...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>I didn't see any ^Ms. Maybe your reader is broke ? Or mine is.
>
> trn4 running directly on shell.panix.com
>
Looks pretty standard on Xnews on a Windoze machine.
David Winsemius
> alt.folklore.urban style-guide version 2.0.0
snip
> TAFKAC - www.urbanlegends.com
Simon; I think we need a version 2.0.1
TWFKAUL.C - www.tafkac.com
Karen J. Cravens
news:Xns94FBCF1C5DD...@204.127.204.17:
> Looks pretty standard on Xnews on a Windoze machine.
Same here, but that doesn't mean it's standard. XNews is awfully
forgiving of encoding errors.
--
Karen J. Cravens
Alan J. Wylie
> tm...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) wrote in
> news:c9lksk$m98$1...@reader2.panix.com:
>> In article <c9lk8e$gdh$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk>, Simon Slavin
>> <slavins.delete....@hearsay.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> alt.folklore.urban style-guide version 2.0.0^M^M Dawn: My friend
>>> Sharon's older brother knows a girl who^M died 'cause she choked
>>> on her boyfriend's tongue.^M -- _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_^M^M
>>> Quinn: You could, like, see her brain. At least that's what^M
>>> Tiffany heard from Doug who heard it from Brenda,^M whose cousin
>>> works in the emergency room. ^M Daria: At another hospital. In
>>> Belgium.^M -- _Daria_ TV animation^M^M Elaine: What a story ! I
>>> can't wait to embellish it.^M -- _Ally McBeal_
>> And lots of other ^Ms embedded in lines, including
>>
>>> "[On AFU] at least the abuse is spelled correctly."^M
>>>
> I didn't see any ^Ms. Maybe your reader is broke ? Or mine is.
The ^Ms are definitely there. Fetching the article without using a
newsreader at all:
$ nntpget news.zen.co.uk > /var/tmp/afu1
<c9lk8e$gdh$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk>
$ ls -l /var/tmp/afu1
-rw-r--r-- 1 news news 17658 Jun 3 07:30 /var/tmp/afu1
$ od -c /var/tmp/afu1
0001540 t . n e t ) \n \n a l t . f o l k
0001560 l o r e . u r b a n s t y l e
0001600 - g u i d e
0001620 v e r s
0001640 i o n 2 . 0 . 0 \r \r \n
0001660 D a w n : M y f r i e n d
0001700 S h a r o n ' s o l d e r b
0001720 r o t h e r k n o w s a g
0001740 i r l w h o \r
0001760 d i e d \n ' c a u s e s
Note "\r" - ( 0D - carriage return - ^M) rather than "\n" - (0A -
newline - "^J"), and also the large number of spaces (in the blank
lines at 1620 and 1740).
$ xxd /var/tmp/afu1
0000360: 742e 6e65 7429 0a0a 616c 742e 666f 6c6b t.net)..alt.folk
0000370: 6c6f 7265 2e75 7262 616e 2073 7479 6c65 lore.urban style
0000380: 2d67 7569 6465 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 -guide
0000390: 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 7665 7273 vers
00003a0: 696f 6e20 322e 302e 300d 0d20 2020 200a ion 2.0.0.. .
00003b0: 4461 776e 3a20 4d79 2066 7269 656e 6420 Dawn: My friend
--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/
"Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,
but rather when there is nothing left to take away."
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Simon Slavin
<c9lk8e$gdh$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk>:
> TAFKAC - www.urbanlegends.com
As David quite rightly points out, this is out of date. The
archive site has since moved and all references to the above
URL should be redirected to www.tafkac.com .
Thanks to David for pointing this out. I will make the
appropriate change in time for next month.
Simon.
--
Using pre-release version of newsreader.
Please tell me if it does weird things.
Mary Shafer
This is from Agent 1.93 running on W2K. No special characters but
some really odd spacing.
Mary "sorry about that"
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 20:01:42 +0100, Simon Slavin
<slavins.delete....@hearsay.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> alt.folklore.urban style-guide version 2.0.0
> Dawn: My friend Sharon's older brother knows a girl who died
> 'cause she choked on her boyfriend's tongue. -- _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ Quinn: You could, like, see her brain. At least that's what Tiffany heard from Doug who heard it from Brenda, whose cousin works in the emergency room. Daria: At another hospital. In Belgium. -- _Daria_ TV animation Elaine: What a story ! I can't wait to embellish it. -- _Ally McBeal_
[snip]
> find the definition to, feel free to ask them what it means. AFU - alt.folklore.urban BOA - Ban On using unexplained Acronyms BOE - Ban On using Emoticons BOR - Ban On arguing about Religion BOMP - Ban On posting bits of Monty Python BOP - Ban On arguing about Politics F - false Fb - believed false, but ... FAQ - a list of Frequently Asked Questions FOAF - friend of a friend (sometimes seen as 'FOAFOAF', etc.) ISP - organization which provides connection to the Internet JHB - author of some books on ULs -- see the FAQ L - roughly that date (e.g. 1970s L == sometime in 1965-1985) OED - Oxford English Dictionary (with supplements if you wish) OED2 - the second edition of the OED PPQ - Polite Persistent Questioning T - true Tb - believed true, but ... TAFKAC - www.urbanlegends.com TWIAVBP - "This may happen differently in other parts of the world."UKoGBaNI - United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern
Ireland
> UL - urban legend URL - Uniform Resource Locator (usually a web page)
> BO<something>: The fact that the BOA, BOE and BOMP are mentioned above does not mean that all mention of, for example, religion, is banned.
> However, posts which violate these bans will meet with an
> unfriendly reception. The BOE is encoded in the FAQ for the
> group. An early Ban On Acronyms post can be found at <http://www.urbanlegends.com/afu/guides/afu_boa.html> .BOMP: We've all seen the Python stuff too often. Not only don't we need to see it retold, but "Most people here can see a joke at 10 postings. No need to remind them what humor is." -- George Cayro If, in a thread about weights or coconuts you see a reference to a Swallow, that's enough to let us get the joke: we don't need it expanded. Similarly, 'uphill both ways' is all we need of that sketch. Don't labour the point.L: Lasnerian A reference to a certain Mr. Lasner who exhibited an
> inaccurate grasp of the calendar. While the inspiration for
> the term involved precision but inaccuracy, current use means
> that the user considers the number(s) or date(s) given
> imprecise.TAFKAC: The Archive Formerly Known As Cathouse The archives for materials found useful on AFU used to be kept on an FTP server called 'cathouse.org'. Many posters wish to commemorate and perpetuate this name in gratitude to those who maintained this site and in memory of its excellence. Although the archives are now accessible as www.urbanlegends.com, some people use the name TAFKAC to refer to the archive site.TWIAVBP: The World Is A Very Big Place Derek Tearne claims to have devised this term (but not the acronym for it) in 1992 Lasnerian. "CAESAR: Pardon him, Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature." -- George Bernard Shaw, _Caesar & Cleopatra_ Don't assume that things are done all over the world the way they're done in your town/country/school/police-force/legal
> system. If you're relating something that isn't universal, please tell us the background. For example: > I should mention that in Arizona these crimes are > prosecuted as mail-fraud, since that covers anything > that uses the US mail, even though they're actually > perfectly normal confidence tricks and could be > handled by State police.
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
mil...@qnet.com
Nick Spalding
> Top posting so the message doesn't get lost in the included text.
>
> This is from Agent 1.93 running on W2K. No special characters but
> some really odd spacing.
>
> Mary "sorry about that"
Something weird going on at your end or on the way to you, it reads
perfectly here in Agent 1.93 or 2.0.
--
Nick Spalding
Keith Willis
wrote:
FWIW, I'm using Agent 2.0 and I got exactly the same strangeness as
Mary.
--
http://www.bytebrothers.co.uk
PGP key ID 0xEB7180EC
Alan J. Wylie
>>> This is from Agent 1.93 running on W2K. No special characters but
>>> some really odd spacing.
>>>
>> Something weird going on at your end or on the way to you, it
>> reads perfectly here in Agent 1.93 or 2.0.
> FWIW, I'm using Agent 2.0 and I got exactly the same strangeness as
> Mary.
See my previous posting in this thread, with Message-ID
<uf1xkx5...@wylie.me.uk>
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=uf1xkx5elb.fsf%40wylie.me.uk>
Looking at the raw bytes in the message, without using any newsreader,
the message contains erroneous carriage return characters and long
strings of spaces.
Alan "telnet is the one true newsreader" Wylie.
Nick Spalding
> On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 08:13:59 +0100, Keith Willis <m...@privacy.net> said:
>
> >>> This is from Agent 1.93 running on W2K. No special characters but
> >>> some really odd spacing.
> >>>
> >> Something weird going on at your end or on the way to you, it
> >> reads perfectly here in Agent 1.93 or 2.0.
>
> > FWIW, I'm using Agent 2.0 and I got exactly the same strangeness as
> > Mary.
>
> See my previous posting in this thread, with Message-ID
> <uf1xkx5...@wylie.me.uk>
>
> <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=uf1xkx5elb.fsf%40wylie.me.uk>
>
> Looking at the raw bytes in the message, without using any newsreader,
> the message contains erroneous carriage return characters and long
> strings of spaces.
>
> Alan "telnet is the one true newsreader" Wylie.
Something is corrupting it on its way to you, and others. Perhaps you
should compare Path headers with other sufferers. Here the raw message
contains nothing odd at all - there are genuine strings of spaces in
there and normal x'0D0A' crlfs.
Path on Simon's message:
>sn-us!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-08!supernews.com!border2.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!border1.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsrout1.ntli.net!news-in.ntli.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!not-for-mail
--
Nick Spalding
Alan J. Wylie
> Something is corrupting it on its way to you, and others. Perhaps
> you should compare Path headers with other sufferers. Here the raw
> message contains nothing odd at all - there are genuine strings of
> spaces in there and normal x'0D0A' crlfs.
> Path on Simon's message:
>> sn-us!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-08!supernews.com!border2.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!border1.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsrout1.ntli.net!news-in.ntli.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!not-for-mail
my path (corrupted)
Path: news.zen.co.uk!fuller.zen.co.uk!zen.net.uk!hamilton.zen.co.uk!newsr2.u-net.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!not-for-mail
news.individual.net (corrupted)
Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!not-for-mail
Common path: demon -> fjserv -> icl
R H Draney
>
>Something is corrupting it on its way to you, and others. Perhaps you
>should compare Path headers with other sufferers. Here the raw message
>contains nothing odd at all - there are genuine strings of spaces in
>there and normal x'0D0A' crlfs.
I have nothing to add on the technical side here, but wouldn't "the x'0D0A
crlfs" make a great name for a punk rock band?...r
JoAnne Schmitz
>Something is corrupting it on its way to you, and others. Perhaps you
>should compare Path headers with other sufferers. Here the raw message
>contains nothing odd at all - there are genuine strings of spaces in
>there and normal x'0D0A' crlfs.
>
>Path on Simon's message:
>>sn-us!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-08!supernews.com!border2.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!border1.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsrout1.ntli.net!news-in.ntli.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!not-for-mail
I get the screwed-up version. My path:
Path:
news1.newsguy.com!lois.pathlink.com!rex!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!border1.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsrout1.ntli.net!news-in.ntli.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!not-for-mail
No fjserv in mine.
JoAnne "looks like it's somewhere after giganews" Schmitz
--
The new Urban Legends website is <http://www.tafkac.org>
That's TAFKAC.ORG
Do not accept lame imitations at previously okay URLs
Alan J. Wylie
> I get the screwed-up version. My path:
> Path: news1.newsguy.com!lois.pathlink.com!rex!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!border1.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsrout1.ntli.net!news-in.ntli.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!not-for-mail
my path (corrupted)
Path: news.zen.co.uk!fuller.zen.co.uk!zen.net.uk!hamilton.zen.co.uk!newsr2.u-net.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!not-for-mail
Nothing in common after demon.
Simon Slavin
> I have nothing to add on the technical side here, but wouldn't "the
> x'0D0A crlfs" make a great name for a punk rock band?...r
Reminds me of <http://www.bash.org/?15910> :
<funkymonkey> My band is called Imation CDR 74m 650 MB....have you seen
our CD's?
Peter of the Norse
<SNIP layout problems>
> Note "\r" - ( 0D - carriage return - ^M) rather than "\n" - (0A -
> newline - "^J"), and also the large number of spaces (in the blank
> lines at 1620 and 1740).
This is a common problem on Mac OS X.[1] The traditional EOL for Macs is
CR, but when they moved to a UNIX sub-system, they changed it to LF.[2]
So if you you use TextEdit on an old text document, it doesn't replace
the CRs, but will insert new LFs. The resulting jumble confuses some
programs.
[1] I don't think that Simon's using it though. It would make "died"
appear on a line by itself.
[2] I might have that backwards. Please feel free to correct me.
--
Peter of the Norse
Choose a .sig from the following:
http://www.unbf.ca/eng/civil/cooke/casady.html
Dr H
On Wed, 3 Jun 2004, Alan J. Wylie vociferated:
}On 2 Jun 2004 23:42:32 GMT, "TeaLady (Mari C.)" <spres...@yahoo.com> said:
}
}> tm...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) wrote in
}> news:c9lksk$m98$1...@reader2.panix.com:
}
}>> In article <c9lk8e$gdh$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk>, Simon Slavin
}>> <slavins.delete....@hearsay.demon.co.uk> wrote:
}>>> alt.folklore.urban style-guide version 2.0.0^M^M Dawn: My friend
}>>> Sharon's older brother knows a girl who^M died 'cause she choked
}>>> on her boyfriend's tongue.^M -- _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_^M^M
}>>> Quinn: You could, like, see her brain. At least that's what^M
}>>> Tiffany heard from Doug who heard it from Brenda,^M whose cousin
}>>> works in the emergency room. ^M Daria: At another hospital. In
}>>> Belgium.^M -- _Daria_ TV animation^M^M Elaine: What a story ! I
}>>> can't wait to embellish it.^M -- _Ally McBeal_
}>> And lots of other ^Ms embedded in lines, including
}>>
}>>> "[On AFU] at least the abuse is spelled correctly."^M
}>>>
}
}> I didn't see any ^Ms. Maybe your reader is broke ? Or mine is.
}
}The ^Ms are definitely there.
So there're extraneous symbols in the Style Guide and they're /not/
emoticons?
I, for one, am shocked.
;-)
Dr H