Burger cheese debate--who really cares?

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

The news media has been buzzing about the positioning of cheese
on an emoji.

Who cares? Why does it matter?

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/30/technology/google-cheeseburger-emoji/index.html


(Personally, I like a good cheeseburger, but had to stop eating
them for health reasons; too much saturated fat.)

[JimP]

Once they started using Cheese Food for the cheese on cheese burgers
the food became yuck. Cheese food is what you feed your cheese.

[Joe Pfeiffer]

A real burger joint will be able to put cheddar on your burger (even if
they don't have sliced cheddar -- they'll have shredded cheddar).

And this "controversy" is all just misdirection to attempt to keep us
from noticing the real problem, which is that it doesn't have green
chile on it.

[Dan Espen]

Don't know what you're complaining about but Velvetta makes the
best cheese burgers. No contest.

--
Dan Espen

[Joe Pfeiffer]

For some odd definition of "best" that includes "ewwww".

[Mike Spencer]

Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:

> A real burger joint will be able to put cheddar on your burger (even if
> they don't have sliced cheddar -- they'll have shredded cheddar).

Gruyere for me.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

[Mike Spencer]

JimP <solo...@gmail.com> writes:

> Once they started using Cheese Food for the cheese on cheese burgers
> the food became yuck. Cheese food is what you feed your cheese.

I worked at McDonald's in 1959 when they were proud of having sold
"more that 1,000,000" burgers. Cheeseburgers were made with squares
of Edible Dairy Product and cost 19 cents. (Plain burgers were 15
cents.) Cheeseburger, shake, fries and a penny back out of a 4 bit
piece.

[Dave Garland]

Eh, I'd argue "commodity cheese" (in my economic strata, we dont get
brand names like that, but the difference between Bongard's and
Velveeta is subtle). Actually, while they make great mac&cheese and
other dishes where the cheese must be completely melted, for dishes
where you want actual cheese, not so much.

[Peter Flass]

Spoken like a true New Mexican!

--
Pete

[Scott Lurndal]

hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>The news media has been buzzing about the positioning of cheese
>on an emoji.
>
>Who cares? Why does it matter?
>

If you don't care, why are you bringing it up?

[Gareth's Downstairs Computer]

When foodstuffs are under discussion the phrase, "bringing it up"
is somewhat of an unfortunate choice :-)

[JimP]

On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 22:13:25 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1...@gmail.com>
wrote:

That Velveeta stuff is gross. But then I belonged to The Cheese
Lovers' Club back in the 1970s. Actual cheese, not the stuff that
pretends to be cheese.

[Scott Lurndal]

I grew up in Wisconsin. 15-year-aged chedder is the only cheese,
although curds aren't bad.

[jmfbahciv]

<grin> I didn't have "real" cheese until after I went to college.

/BAH

[Peter Flass]

Something like velveeta is probably useful in making cheese dip, with the
addition of salsa and some green chiles. I haven't been able to doctor up
real cheese enough to keep it from setting up in a few minutes.

--
Pete

[Peter Flass]

The best cheese I ever had was "government" cheese. At one point the
gum'mint gave out surplus food instead of food stamps. Wife's grandparents
got a huge block, which they couldn't have eaten in a year, so they gave
out chunks to the family. I wish I could buy cheese that good.

--
Pete

[Dan Espen]

Your loss.
Excellent on burgers.
For Mac and Cheese, follow directions on Velvetta box but triple
the amount of milk. The best mac and cheese there is.

--
Dan Espen

[Joe Pfeiffer]

I've heard adding a little Velveeta to chile con queso helps a lot; you
can add enough to help the melt long before you can taste it.

[Gareth's Downstairs Computer]

There's a rumour that MacDonalds are to introduce a burger
especially for vegetarians called The Big Mac, so called
because there isn't any real meat in it :-)

(Talking of cheesey jokes :-) )

[Gareth's Downstairs Computer]

The best cheese from our point of view in Brit is Pilgrim's Choice
Extra Mature Cheddar, which knocks that brand claiming to be
really strong cheese into a cocked hat.

[Charles Richmond]

"Things are not always what they seem
Skim milk masquerades as cream."

--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

[JimP]

We had actual cheddar cheese when I was growing up. The local
supermarket didn't carry Velveeta until late 1950s. Red wax on the
sides and large end. Now that is even done so it imitates such cheese.

[Whiskers]

We couldn't afford processed cheese when I was a kid; we had to make do
with genuine 'mousetrap' bulk-manufactured cheddar-type stuff made from
the Milk Marketing Board pool milk and sold in strange rindless
rectangular blocks which the grocer sliced into lumps as required.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 10:13:26 PM UTC-4, Dan Espen wrote:

> Don't know what you're complaining about but Velvetta makes the
> best cheese burgers. No contest.

Here's a 1939 ad for Velvetta:

https://books.google.com/books?id=8EEEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA58-IA1&dq=life%20velveeta&pg=PA58-IA1#v=onepage&q&f=false

[JimP]

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 23:09:41 +0000, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com>
wrote:

It could be from a moive... but I sort of remember going to the store
with my grandmother in the early 1950s and her buying a couple of
pounds of chedder cheese. The person behind the counter cut it off a
large block.

[Dan Espen]

Aha, that reminds me, Velvetta is also the number one cheese for
grilled cheese. Crisco on the bread of course.

Sure if you want to snob it out with wine and cheese go for something
else. Otherwise, go for what tastes best. All things in moderation.

--
Dan Espen

[Joe Pfeiffer]

No, you make it with cheddar so it tastes good. You make it with
Velveeta if you just want a sort of mucilage to glue the sandwich
together.

[Joe Makowiec]

On 02 Nov 2017 in alt.folklore.computers, Dan Espen wrote:

> Aha, that reminds me, Velvetta is also the number one cheese for
> grilled cheese. Crisco on the bread of course.

I'm not going to get into the cheese argument, but try mayo on the bread.
Mayo is mostly oil, and does a fine job browning and crisping the bread.

--
Joe Makowiec
http://makowiec.org/
Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

[jmfbahciv]

How odd. We couldn't afford real cheese so Mom bought Velveeta.

/BAH

>

[Whiskers]

I don't think 'Velveeta' as such was sold here at all. We did have
'processed cheese' but it seemed to be significantly more expensive than
cheap real cheese. We also had 'cheese spread', also not cheap. I
think that's still true - we do still have some very cheap real
'cheddar', now sold as supermarket economy own-brand. Some of it still
has the ability to turn rock-hard and dry and dark yellow or brown, if
left long enough. I don't know why it became associated with mouse
traps, as mice don't seem to be attracted much by cheese (but they do
like yoghourt, no matter how it's spelt).

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Thursday, November 2, 2017 at 8:41:08 PM UTC-4, Dan Espen wrote:

> > Here's a 1939 ad for Velveeta:
> >
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=8EEEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA58-IA1&dq=life%20velveeta&pg=PA58-IA1#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> Aha, that reminds me, Velveeta is also the number one cheese for

> grilled cheese. Crisco on the bread of course.
>
> Sure if you want to snob it out with wine and cheese go for something
> else. Otherwise, go for what tastes best. All things in moderation.

I didn't realize Velveeta went back that far.

I thought cheddar was the basic cheese, and many processed cheeses
came out of that.

Here's a 1942 ad for Kraft products (two pages). Kraft says they
meet U.S. Government nutrition guidelines (a frequent claim of
advertisers during the war years.)
https://books.google.com/books?id=J1AEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA43&dq=life%20velveeta&pg=PA42#v=onepage&q&f=false

Here's a 1971 ad from Ebony:
https://books.google.com/books?id=59oDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA28&dq=life%20velveeta&pg=PA29#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Scott Lurndal]

hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>On Thursday, November 2, 2017 at 8:41:08 PM UTC-4, Dan Espen wrote:
>
>> > Here's a 1939 ad for Velveeta:
>> >
>> > https://books.google.com/books?id=8EEEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA58-IA1&dq=life%20velveeta&pg=PA58-IA1#v=onepage&q&f=false
>>
>> Aha, that reminds me, Velveeta is also the number one cheese for
>> grilled cheese. Crisco on the bread of course.
>>
>> Sure if you want to snob it out with wine and cheese go for something
>> else. Otherwise, go for what tastes best. All things in moderation.
>
>I didn't realize Velveeta went back that far.

1918

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velveeta

[Bob Eager]

Never tried it. Real Cheddar (preferably *from* Cheddar or thereabouts)
is what I mostly eat.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

[Dan Espen]

I got a couple of mice a while back with that cheese like stuff...
Velvetta. It's good for lots of stuff including killing mice.
I know bacon is better but all I had was Velvetta. Worked quite well.

--
Dan Espen

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 17:47:10 +0000
Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:

> I don't know why it became associated with mouse
> traps, as mice don't seem to be attracted much by cheese (but they do
> like yoghourt, no matter how it's spelt).

I came across a study someone had done to find the food mice liked
best, cheese came way down the list the top two where chocolate and
cocaine - I was more than a little surprised that the latter had been tried
at all and I don't think mice on coke is a good idea.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

[Mike Spencer]

JimP <solo...@gmail.com> writes:

> It could be from a moive... but I sort of remember going to the store
> with my grandmother in the early 1950s and her buying a couple of
> pounds of chedder cheese. The person behind the counter cut it off a
> large block.

There was a general store here until about 1980 when the elderly
storekeeper retired. He bought whole wheels of cheddar and sut
slices or wedges on demand. Our moderny supermarkets do have some
good cheeses (Gruyere, that English blue) but nothing like what he
sold.

The store became a cabinet shop, then a boat shop, then burned and is
a little corner picnic park today. Sic transit gloria mundi.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

[Gareth's Downstairs Computer]

On 04/11/2017 01:08, Dan Espen wrote:
>
> I got a couple of mice a while back with that cheese like stuff...
> Velvetta. It's good for lots of stuff including killing mice.
> I know bacon is better but all I had was Velvetta. Worked quite well.
>

Chocolate cake in the mouse trap catches one every day!

[ma...@mail.com]

Peanut butter


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man

[Gareth's Downstairs Computer]

On 04/11/2017 12:12, ma...@mail.com wrote:
> On 2017-11-04, Gareth's Downstairs Computer <headstone255.but.n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 04/11/2017 01:08, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>
>>> I got a couple of mice a while back with that cheese like stuff...
>>> Velvetta. It's good for lots of stuff including killing mice.
>>> I know bacon is better but all I had was Velvetta. Worked quite well.
>>>
>>
>> Chocolate cake in the mouse trap catches one every day!
>>
>
> Peanut butter
>
>

Actually, the simplest mousetrap can be made by setting
a razor blade on edge in a small piece of wood.

The mouse comes along, and resting his neck on the blade,
shakes his head from side to side searching for the cheese :-)

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 9:08:22 PM UTC-4, Dan Espen wrote:

> I got a couple of mice a while back with that cheese like stuff...
> Velvetta. It's good for lots of stuff including killing mice.
> I know bacon is better but all I had was Velvetta. Worked quite well.

They were renovating the unit on the other side of the wall, and I
got mice. But the cat did a good job of nailing them. (When the
renovation was completed, the mice stopped).

Some cats, however, do not dispatch the mice, but rather bring the
live one to their human as a present. An older cat was outside and
brought a live mouse home to me. Fortunately, I caught him before
he came into the house and made him drop the mouse and let it go. The
cat seemed surprised and disappointed. The mouse was happy and ran off.

I once worked on the 14th floor of an office building. We had mice.
I don't know how they got up there, but they did. Food stored in a
cardboard box was broken into.

[Mike Spencer]

Excellent! And each morning one must think of something to do with the
remaining 99.95% of the cake.

But wait: It takes me about 3 hours to make a chocolate layer cake.
Would brownies, which I can knock off in 20 minutes, work as well?

Maybe I'll just stick with peanut butter for the meeses.

[Rob Morley]

On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 04:41:31 +0000
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 17:47:10 +0000
> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't know why it became associated with mouse
> > traps, as mice don't seem to be attracted much by cheese (but they
> > do like yoghourt, no matter how it's spelt).
>
> I came across a study someone had done to find the food mice
> liked best, cheese came way down the list the top two where chocolate
> and cocaine - I was more than a little surprised that the latter had
> been tried at all and I don't think mice on coke is a good idea.
>

I found that bits of chocolate chip cookie are effective bait in humane
mousetraps, the only problem being that I eat them all and have none
left when a trap needs resetting ...

[Joy Beeson]

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:00:10 -0400, Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> The best cheese I ever had was "government" cheese. At one point the
> gum'mint gave out surplus food instead of food stamps. Wife's grandparents
> got a huge block, which they couldn't have eaten in a year, so they gave
> out chunks to the family. I wish I could buy cheese that good.

I got some at summer camp. It was quite a revelation that process
cheese could be good! They were making the "cheese" to get rid of
milk, so they put in as much milk as they could.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

[Joy Beeson]

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:00:10 -0400, Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Something like velveeta is probably useful in making cheese dip, with the
> addition of salsa and some green chiles. I haven't been able to doctor up
> real cheese enough to keep it from setting up in a few minutes.

Had to go back to my 2015 diary to find how I make cheese dip:

----
I checked this morning, and the candle warmer I use for the cheese
dip is in the cupboard, second place I looked. I bought a pound of
extra-sharp cheddar last week, and plan to use half of it.

I believe the recipe is "melt altogether too much butter in the little
iron saucepan, stir in an eighth of a cup of whole-grain white-wheat
flour, stir in a cup of milk, add half a pound of cut-up cheese, stir
until blended.

Shouldn't there be salt in there somewhere? Well, the butter is
salted.
-----

The white sauce must be boiled, but the dip must *not* boil after the
cheese is added. I was careless and overheated the cheese this year,
and the dip was dreadful.

I make it in a small iron pan after the guests arrive, and set the pan
on a candle warmer to serve. Half a stick of butter (a quarter cup)
is enough.

[Joe Pfeiffer]

I find peanut butter has pretty much an ideal blend of attracting them
and being easy to stick to stuff. I'll also mention that my favorite
traps are the electronic ones that electrocute them -- easy, clean, and
(near as I can tell) humane.

[Charles Richmond]

On 11/4/2017 2:42 AM, Mike Spencer wrote:
> JimP <solo...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> It could be from a moive... but I sort of remember going to the store
>> with my grandmother in the early 1950s and her buying a couple of

>> pounds of cheddar cheese. The person behind the counter cut it off a

>> large block.
>
> There was a general store here until about 1980 when the elderly
> storekeeper retired. He bought whole wheels of cheddar and sut
> slices or wedges on demand. Our moderny supermarkets do have some
> good cheeses (Gruyere, that English blue) but nothing like what he
> sold.
>
> The store became a cabinet shop, then a boat shop, then burned and is
> a little corner picnic park today. Sic transit gloria mundi.
>

Don't worry... soon the park will be leveled and a McDonalds will be
built there!!!

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote in
news:slrnovpasu.1...@ID-107770.user.individual.net:
[] trimmed a bit

>
> I don't think 'Velveeta' as such was sold here at all. We did have
> 'processed cheese' but it seemed to be significantly more expensive

Don't forget Dairylea "cheese" wedges of paste.
https://www.dairylea.co.uk/~/media/Dairylea/uk/Images/timeline/psh-1955

[Whiskers]

I think you've invented 'Fondue'.

[jmfbahciv]

hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 9:08:22 PM UTC-4, Dan Espen wrote:
>
>> I got a couple of mice a while back with that cheese like stuff...
>> Velvetta. It's good for lots of stuff including killing mice.
>> I know bacon is better but all I had was Velvetta. Worked quite well.
>
> They were renovating the unit on the other side of the wall, and I
> got mice. But the cat did a good job of nailing them. (When the
> renovation was completed, the mice stopped).
>
> Some cats, however, do not dispatch the mice, but rather bring the
> live one to their human as a present. An older cat was outside and
> brought a live mouse home to me. Fortunately, I caught him before
> he came into the house and made him drop the mouse and let it go. The
> cat seemed surprised and disappointed. The mouse was happy and ran off.

Your cat was trying to teach you how to survive.

>
> I once worked on the 14th floor of an office building. We had mice.
> I don't know how they got up there, but they did. Food stored in a
> cardboard box was broken into.

Mice and computers should never occupy the same space.

/BAH

[William Pechter]

In article <PM00055D3...@aca40c9d.ipt.aol.com>,

jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:

>Mice and computers should never occupy the same space.
>
>/BAH

I was working at IBM in Dayton, NJ doing sysadmin and after a Christmas
break one of my coworkers came to mention that there's a mouse problem
on his computer.

Handed him my spare to use while I figured I'd check out his mouse.
He then pointed to my chair. When I finally looked down there was a
field mouse that promptly ran from the room.

I looked in my drawer to find the emergency oatmeal packets and stuff I
kept for the "stuck on site overnight" days was trashed and they managed
to relieve themselves as well. The entire group's offices all showed
sign of the rodent invasion.

I really keep my food and stuff away from the computers. Not just a
drink spill hazard. Sometimes I break the rule for coffee. Caffeine is a
necessity.

It's much easier to deal with since I'm home full time now.

Bill

--
Digital had it then. Don't you wish you could buy it now!
pechter-at-gmail.com http://xkcd.com/705/

[Bob Eager]

On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 16:28:27 +0000, William Pechter wrote:

> I really keep my food and stuff away from the computers. Not just a
> drink spill hazard. Sometimes I break the rule for coffee. Caffeine is
> a necessity.

We've always had a rule that no food or drink is allowed in the 'office'
at home. Ever.

When my sons were born and could move by themselves, they learned
straight away. They would leave their drinks (bottles of formula, even)
at the door of the office before crawling/walking in.

They still obey the rules 20-odd years on.

[Charles Richmond]

On 11/5/2017 10:04 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
> hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>> On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 9:08:22 PM UTC-4, Dan Espen wrote:
>>
>>> I got a couple of mice a while back with that cheese like stuff...
>>> Velvetta. It's good for lots of stuff including killing mice.
>>> I know bacon is better but all I had was Velvetta. Worked quite well.
>>
>> They were renovating the unit on the other side of the wall, and I
>> got mice. But the cat did a good job of nailing them. (When the
>> renovation was completed, the mice stopped).
>>
>> Some cats, however, do not dispatch the mice, but rather bring the
>> live one to their human as a present. An older cat was outside and
>> brought a live mouse home to me. Fortunately, I caught him before
>> he came into the house and made him drop the mouse and let it go. The
>> cat seemed surprised and disappointed. The mouse was happy and ran off.
>
> Your cat was trying to teach you how to survive.
>

"A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no
other way." -- Mark Twain

[Bob Martin]

in 689408 20171105 163410 Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 16:28:27 +0000, William Pechter wrote:
>
>> I really keep my food and stuff away from the computers. Not just a
>> drink spill hazard. Sometimes I break the rule for coffee. Caffeine is
>> a necessity.
>
>We've always had a rule that no food or drink is allowed in the 'office'
>at home. Ever.
>

No working lunches, then?

[jmfbahciv]

Joy's recipe is too thick for fondue. I've never used white wheat
flour to make a roux. I'm assuming it would be thicker than
plain white flour.

/BAH

[Whiskers]

In my understanding, "whole-grain white-wheat flour" /is/ "plain white
flour". If you want a runnier sauce, use less flour (&/or less cheese).

[Joe Pfeiffer]

It's not. Plain white flour is bleached (and I believe is also refined,
ie degermed); white wheat flour is a different species that is white
without bleaching (and, near as I can tell, is also a whole wheat
flour).

[Joy Beeson]

On 6 Nov 2017 13:23:23 GMT, jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:

> Joy's recipe is too thick for fondue. I've never used white wheat
> flour to make a roux. I'm assuming it would be thicker than
> plain white flour.

It isn't any thicker than white flour -- it just has some bran and
germ in it.

"White wheat" is beige, while "red wheat" is brown. Most wheat
produced is "red wheat".

There's a preserved mill in a park north of here that, in May through
October, grinds both soft and hard varieties of both red and white
wheat. Whole-grain red-wheat flour works just as well to make white
sauce, but has a stronger wheat flavor.

With either the sauce is really speckled, but "white sauce" is the
name I learned for milk thickened with flour and butter when I learned
to cook in the early fifties. Nowadays they call it "bechamel", with
an accent over the first "e". I don't consider "be'chamel" a good
name because it can also refer to a variation of veal veloute'. Of
course, veal veloute' is white and a sauce, but I don't think it's
ever called "white sauce".

[jmfbahciv]

Joy Beeson wrote:
> On 6 Nov 2017 13:23:23 GMT, jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Joy's recipe is too thick for fondue. I've never used white wheat
>> flour to make a roux. I'm assuming it would be thicker than
>> plain white flour.
>
> It isn't any thicker than white flour -- it just has some bran and
> germ in it.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the term thicker. Heavier?

>
> "White wheat" is beige, while "red wheat" is brown. Most wheat
> produced is "red wheat".
>
> There's a preserved mill in a park north of here that, in May through
> October, grinds both soft and hard varieties of both red and white
> wheat. Whole-grain red-wheat flour works just as well to make white
> sauce, but has a stronger wheat flavor.
>
> With either the sauce is really speckled, but "white sauce" is the
> name I learned for milk thickened with flour and butter when I learned
> to cook in the early fifties.

That's called white sauce in my recipe books. One starts with a roux;
if milk is added, it's a white sauce. If meat juices are added, it's
a gravy.

> Nowadays they call it "bechamel", with
> an accent over the first "e". I don't consider "be'chamel" a good
> name because it can also refer to a variation of veal veloute'. Of
> course, veal veloute' is white and a sauce, but I don't think it's
> ever called "white sauce".

I wonder if that term is local.

/BAH

>

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 11:28:28 AM UTC-5, William Pechter wrote:


> I was working at IBM in Dayton, NJ doing sysadmin and after a Christmas
> break one of my coworkers came to mention that there's a mouse problem
> on his computer.

I was there once, a long time ago. Don't remember what it
was for or why, but we took a trip out to that location.

I'm surprised an IBM office would have mice. It's just not something
I think about when it comes to IBM. They were always so 'proper'
and neat and orderly.

[Peter Flass]

Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> On 6 Nov 2017 13:23:23 GMT, jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Joy's recipe is too thick for fondue. I've never used white wheat
>> flour to make a roux. I'm assuming it would be thicker than
>> plain white flour.
>
> It isn't any thicker than white flour -- it just has some bran and
> germ in it.
>
> "White wheat" is beige, while "red wheat" is brown. Most wheat
> produced is "red wheat".
>
> There's a preserved mill in a park north of here that, in May through
> October, grinds both soft and hard varieties of both red and white
> wheat. Whole-grain red-wheat flour works just as well to make white
> sauce, but has a stronger wheat flavor.
>
> With either the sauce is really speckled, but "white sauce" is the
> name I learned for milk thickened with flour and butter when I learned
> to cook in the early fifties. Nowadays they call it "bechamel", with
> an accent over the first "e".

Still "white sauce," i believe. We have (or had) a cookbook that gave
three different proportions for different thicknesses.

> I don't consider "be'chamel" a good
> name because it can also refer to a variation of veal veloute'. Of
> course, veal veloute' is white and a sauce, but I don't think it's
> ever called "white sauce".
>



--

Pete

[William Pechter]

In article <3ae4c1ac-fe5a-4bcc...@googlegroups.com>,

<hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 11:28:28 AM UTC-5, William Pechter wrote:
>
>
>> I was working at IBM in Dayton, NJ doing sysadmin and after a Christmas
>> break one of my coworkers came to mention that there's a mouse problem
>> on his computer.
>
>I was there once, a long time ago. Don't remember what it
>was for or why, but we took a trip out to that location.
>
>I'm surprised an IBM office would have mice. It's just not something
>I think about when it comes to IBM. They were always so 'proper'
>and neat and orderly.
>
>

Well, this was post Gerstner and they went from 13 buildings in the
Princeton Area to 1/2 of this one which was mostly empty spaces.
The site was pretty devastated and used to be where the NJ Turnpike
Toll punch cards were printed. (And they had the requisite polution
issue caused by press cleaning with solvents...)

A lot of empty loading dock and storage space filled with old machines
from projects and staff gone over time.

Most service and facilities folks there were retired or were outsourced
ex-IBMers who took a package, whether they wanted to or not.

Not your usual IBM office -- but it must've been nice 30+ years before
when it appeared to be built...

I thought it was from the Kennedy Administration timeframe and I was
correct.

https://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/supplies/supplies_5404PH08.html

Pretty much the last building occupied in the site.

[Joe Pfeiffer]

> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>> On 6 Nov 2017 13:23:23 GMT, jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Joy's recipe is too thick for fondue. I've never used white wheat
>>> flour to make a roux. I'm assuming it would be thicker than
>>> plain white flour.
>>
>> It isn't any thicker than white flour -- it just has some bran and
>> germ in it.
>>
>> "White wheat" is beige, while "red wheat" is brown. Most wheat
>> produced is "red wheat".
>>
>> There's a preserved mill in a park north of here that, in May through
>> October, grinds both soft and hard varieties of both red and white
>> wheat. Whole-grain red-wheat flour works just as well to make white
>> sauce, but has a stronger wheat flavor.

After all the bread, buns, sauces, and everything else I've had over the
last 60 years -- I've got no idea what a wheat flavor is.

[Joy Beeson]

On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 21:17:39 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer
<pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:

> After all the bread, buns, sauces, and everything else I've had over the
> last 60 years -- I've got no idea what a wheat flavor is.

I've eaten wheat right off the plant. If it's hard wheat, it turns
into a pretty good chewing gum. I imagine that one could have a
similar experience by soaking half a teaspoon of health-food store
"wheat berries" overnight.

Or eat a pinch of whole-grain wheat flour. Umm . . . it will probably
taste rancid, if it hasn't been kept chilled ever since it was ground.
I keep mine in the freezer.

Bran flakes will give you a clue -- mentally subtract the sugar.

Or try a pinch of wheat bran -- it's the germ that goes rancid.
But I haven't bought any bran in years, and that once, I bought
it from a walk-in cooler, so I don't know how shelf-stable bran
is.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 07 Nov 2017 22:21:21 -0400
Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

> With either the sauce is really speckled, but "white sauce" is the
> name I learned for milk thickened with flour and butter when I learned

That's a white sauce.

> to cook in the early fifties. Nowadays they call it "bechamel", with
> an accent over the first "e".

A Bechamel sauce is a white sauce made with seasoned milk - full
blown recipes involve boiling the milk with carrots, onions, some herbs
and spices all of which gets strained before using the milk to make a white
sauce, lazy cooks like me use a vegetable stock cube. The main use for a
good Bechamel is in a proper beef Lasagne.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

[Charlie Gibbs]

Speaking of bran, has anyone else noticed the disappearance of the
original Kellogg's All-Bran? Our local Safeway hasn't had it for
about a month now, although they have all the variants: bran flakes,
bran buds, bran with strawberry bits, etc. I haven't been able to
find it in other local stores either. Has Kellogg's pulled the plug?

I've found an equivalent by Post that should fill the gap, though.

--
/~\ cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

[Whiskers]

On 2017-11-09, Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2017-11-09, Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 21:17:39 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer
>> <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> After all the bread, buns, sauces, and everything else I've had over
>>> the last 60 years -- I've got no idea what a wheat flavor is.
>>
>> I've eaten wheat right off the plant. If it's hard wheat, it turns
>> into a pretty good chewing gum. I imagine that one could have a
>> similar experience by soaking half a teaspoon of health-food store
>> "wheat berries" overnight.
>>
>> Or eat a pinch of whole-grain wheat flour. Umm . . . it will
>> probably taste rancid, if it hasn't been kept chilled ever since it
>> was ground. I keep mine in the freezer.
>>
>> Bran flakes will give you a clue -- mentally subtract the sugar.
>>
>> Or try a pinch of wheat bran -- it's the germ that goes rancid. But
>> I haven't bought any bran in years, and that once, I bought it from a
>> walk-in cooler, so I don't know how shelf-stable bran is.
>
> Speaking of bran, has anyone else noticed the disappearance of the
> original Kellogg's All-Bran? Our local Safeway hasn't had it for
> about a month now, although they have all the variants: bran flakes,
> bran buds, bran with strawberry bits, etc. I haven't been able to
> find it in other local stores either. Has Kellogg's pulled the plug?
>
> I've found an equivalent by Post that should fill the gap, though.

Sainsbury's on-line seem to be offering it still
<https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchDisplayView?msg=&catalogId=10123&langId=44&storeId=10151&krypto=rV9UxA7cF3nfD%2BwPY%2FvsRQ%2BR8FTo6Sl2CUMh8uzXyR2apr4p8ffbq3L9HCH9K3XDfRw9o4fEJuyVayWs7AjPFWXyJgAC2ZfO7uuDYDnBHL8dL1wnbz2lgJOresWUgx%2BZQWXyvCE4OwifUWFl02xNu6apZdtbFwJI84ad3KlPAfsiw9rPILOP80vInZmHEVzeeMW6jlRhdgAqLPfWHb7lEzlnjwTRQKkOkuxGyKekUDE%2Fq0mpgA1IRSKoTHC%2FbeblKn%2F9pwvqF%2BCgMfSQwlzlMA%3D%3D#langId=44&storeId=10151&catalogId=10123&categoryId=&parent_category_rn=&top_category=&pageSize=36&orderBy=&searchTerm=all%20bran&beginIndex=0&hideFilters=true&categoryFacetId1=>
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/y8eepgl5>

[jmfbahciv]

Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2017-11-09, Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 21:17:39 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer
>> <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> After all the bread, buns, sauces, and everything else I've had over the
>>> last 60 years -- I've got no idea what a wheat flavor is.
>>
>> I've eaten wheat right off the plant. If it's hard wheat, it turns
>> into a pretty good chewing gum. I imagine that one could have a
>> similar experience by soaking half a teaspoon of health-food store
>> "wheat berries" overnight.
>>
>> Or eat a pinch of whole-grain wheat flour. Umm . . . it will probably
>> taste rancid, if it hasn't been kept chilled ever since it was ground.
>> I keep mine in the freezer.
>>
>> Bran flakes will give you a clue -- mentally subtract the sugar.
>>
>> Or try a pinch of wheat bran -- it's the germ that goes rancid.
>> But I haven't bought any bran in years, and that once, I bought
>> it from a walk-in cooler, so I don't know how shelf-stable bran
>> is.
>
> Speaking of bran, has anyone else noticed the disappearance of the
> original Kellogg's All-Bran? Our local Safeway hasn't had it for
> about a month now, although they have all the variants: bran flakes,
> bran buds, bran with strawberry bits, etc. I haven't been able to
> find it in other local stores either. Has Kellogg's pulled the plug?
>
> I've found an equivalent by Post that should fill the gap, though.
>

Check Kellogg's web site to see if it's still a product. That's what
I did when Joy dishwashing detergent disappeared. A local discount
store was selling it, cheaply, so I bought 20 bottles; hopefully,
that will be a life-time supply.

/BAH

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 10:00:07 PM UTC-5, William Pechter wrote:

> The site was pretty devastated and used to be where the NJ Turnpike
> Toll punch cards were printed. (And they had the requisite polution
> issue caused by press cleaning with solvents...)

FWIW, here is the IBM writeup on their toll collection system:
https://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/specialprod1/specialprod1_8.html

As an aside, the bondholders are very fussy about revenue stream,
and keep a sharp eye on turnpike operations. There are usually
convenants in the bond documents with lots of protections for
the bondholders. Caro touches on that stuff in his bio of Robert Moses.

Some turnpikes treat their toll collectors as a paramilitary operation.