History of date format
J Ahlstrom
day mon dd hh:mm:ss.xxx yyyy
e.g.
Mon Oct 01 11:17:09.123 2002
Thanks
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>
> Can anyone enlighten me with the history of the date format
>
> day mon dd hh:mm:ss.xxx yyyy
> e.g.
> Mon Oct 01 11:17:09.123 2002
Who knows. However there is no excuse for using it in new
software, when the ISO standard format is available 2002-10-01
11:17:09.123.
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Charlie Gibbs
writes:
>J Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> Can anyone enlighten me with the history of the date format
>>
>> day mon dd hh:mm:ss.xxx yyyy
>> e.g.
>> Mon Oct 01 11:17:09.123 2002
>
>Who knows.
I was always somewhat puzzled that Unix, which so often jumps
through hoops to Do The Right Thing, adopted a clunker like this.
At the very least, the year should have been immediately after
the date. I suspect that the year was tacked on as an afterthought.
> However there is no excuse for using it in new
>software, when the ISO standard format is available 2002-10-01
>11:17:09.123.
Amen. Big-endian all the way.
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Taliesin2
wrote:
>However there is no excuse for using it in new
>software, when the ISO standard format is available 2002-10-01
>11:17:09.123.
What is the ISO format & when did it become standard?
Howard S Shubs
Taliesin2 <taliesin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> What is the ISO format & when did it become standard?
8601, late 1980s, most recent revision is from 2000.
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Chris Hedley
> Can anyone enlighten me with the history of the date format
>
> day mon dd hh:mm:ss.xxx yyyy
I dunno. I never liked it much, it always struck me as being a bit
messy and not very easy to read.
Chris.
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Tim Shoppa
> >J Ahlstrom wrote:
> >
> >> Can anyone enlighten me with the history of the date format
> >>
> >> day mon dd hh:mm:ss.xxx yyyy
> >> e.g.
> >> Mon Oct 01 11:17:09.123 2002
> At the very least, the year should have been immediately after
> the date. I suspect that the year was tacked on as an afterthought.
Indeed, my copy of the V3 Unix man page for the "date" command shows
no mention at all of the year. In particular:
* DATE (I)'3/15/72'DATE (I)
*
* NAME date -- print and set the date
*
* SYNOPSIS date [ mmddhhmm ]
*
* DESCRIPTION If no argument is given, the current date is printed
* to the second.
* If an argument is given, the current date is set.
* m is the month number;
* d is the day number in the month;
* h is the hour number (24 hour system);
* m is the minute number.
* For example:
*
* date 10080045
*
* sets the date to Oct 8, 12:45 AM.
Tim.
Brian Inglis
<jahl...@cisco.com> wrote:
>Can anyone enlighten me with the history of the date format
>
> day mon dd hh:mm:ss.xxx yyyy
>e.g.
> Mon Oct 01 11:17:09.123 2002
for me:
Mon Oct 1 11:17:09 EDT 2002
format "%a %b %e %T %Z %Y" is easy to remember and type?
Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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Eugene Miya
J Ahlstrom <jahl...@cisco.com> wrote:
>Can anyone enlighten me with the history of the date format
> day mon dd hh:mm:ss.xxx yyyy
Contact the NIST.
Years ago when I visited the NBS (now Natl. Inst. of Standards and
Technology) I picked up a book on the history of time and time keeping.
It's buried in my library.
Eugene Miya
Chris Hedley <c...@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk> wrote:
>According to J Ahlstrom <jahl...@cisco.com>:
>> Can anyone enlighten me with the history of the date format
>> day mon dd hh:mm:ss.xxx yyyy
>
>I dunno. I never liked it much, it always struck me as being a bit
>messy and not very easy to read.
Could be worse.
You could have this on a punch card and need Hollerith fields
or COBOL PICTURE clauses to intepret variations of this.
Thank your stars for blanks, colonn, and decimal points.
It's just a format.
Just wait 7998 years.
Steve O'Hara-Smith
sho...@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) wrote:
TS> Indeed, my copy of the V3 Unix man page for the "date" command shows
TS> no mention at all of the year. In particular:
I think the history of ctime() may be more relevant, it is
specified quite carefully for that function and I'm pretty sure it's
always the same <invitation for counter examples now open>. I know nothing
of it before 4.3BSD other than the reference to "the time package
contributed to Berkeley by Arthur Olson" in the BSD man pages.
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Chris Hedley
> Could be worse.
> You could have this on a punch card and need Hollerith fields
> or COBOL PICTURE clauses to intepret variations of this.
> Thank your stars for blanks, colonn, and decimal points.
>
> It's just a format.
True enough, and there was plenty worse such as the old IBM (CICS?)
favourite of YYDOY. Yummy.
> Just wait 7998 years.
Of course DEC made a big thing about VMS being compliant for that
amount of time, and that the impending Y10K bug was "being looked
into."
Dennis Ritchie
"Steve O'Hara-Smith" <ste...@eircom.net> quoting
sho...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
> TS> Indeed, my copy of the V3 Unix man page for the "date" command shows
> TS> no mention at all of the year. In particular:
>
> I think the history of ctime() may be more relevant, it is
> specified quite carefully for that function and I'm pretty sure it's
> always the same <invitation for counter examples now open>. I know nothing
> of it before 4.3BSD other than the reference to "the time package
> contributed to Berkeley by Arthur Olson" in the BSD man pages.
The V3 manual (Feb 1973) is devoid of years, both for
date and ctime. The generated string for ctime is 16 characters
long, e.g. Oct 9 17:32:21\0 .
The V4 manual (Nov 1973) advanced considerably.
The date command doesn't say whether it prints the year, but it
does accept a year for setting the date. ctime(3) by then generated
Sun Sep 16 01:03:52 1973\n\0
and also by then had somewhat parameterized Summer (DST) time,
albeit in a compiled-in table. (This also was the year of the "nixonflg").
Dennis
Tim Shoppa
> On 2 Oct 2002 06:11:16 -0700
> sho...@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) wrote:
>
> TS> Indeed, my copy of the V3 Unix man page for the "date" command shows
> TS> no mention at all of the year. In particular:
>
> I think the history of ctime() may be more relevant, it is
> specified quite carefully for that function and I'm pretty sure it's
> always the same <invitation for counter examples now open>.
The V3 Unix man page for CTIME indicates that it is clearly from the
era when everything had to be rebuilt because the epoch was rolled
forward every year. e.g. time was stored in a 32-bit int in
terms of sixtieths of a second since the beginning of the year.
See the accompanying man page for time(2):
'CTIME (III)'1/15/73'CTIME (III)'
NAME ctime -- convert date and time to ASCII
SYNOPSIS sys time
mov $buffer,r2
jsr pc,ctime
DESCRIPTION The output buffer
is 16 characters long and
the time has the format
Oct 9 17:32:24\0
The input time must be in the r0 and r1 registers in the form
returned by sys time.
FILES kept in /lib/liba.a
SEE ALSO ptime(III), time(II)
DIAGNOSTICS --
BUGS The routine must be reassembled for leap year.
Dec 31 is followed by Dec 32 and so on.
'TIME (II)'3/15/72'TIME (II)'
NAME time -- get time of year
SYNOPSIS sys time / time = 13.
(time r0-r1)
DESCRIPTION time
returns the time since 00:00:00, Jan. 1, 1972, measured
in sixtieths of a second.
The high order word is in the r0 register and the low order
is in the r1.
SEE ALSO date(I), mdate(II)
DIAGNOSTICS --
BUGS The time
is stored in 32 bits.
This guarantees a crisis every
2.26 years.
jmfb...@aol.com
c...@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) wrote:
>According to Eugene Miya <eug...@cse.ucsc.edu>:
>> Could be worse.
>> You could have this on a punch card and need Hollerith fields
>> or COBOL PICTURE clauses to intepret variations of this.
>> Thank your stars for blanks, colonn, and decimal points.
>>
>> It's just a format.
>
>True enough, and there was plenty worse such as the old IBM (CICS?)
>favourite of YYDOY. Yummy.
>
>> Just wait 7998 years.
>
>Of course DEC made a big thing about VMS being compliant for that
>amount of time, and that the impending Y10K bug was "being looked
>into."
That's because some of the guys in charge had already dealt with
TOPS-10's DATE75 bug. :-) It took a long time to "convert"
date formats. I remember typing up the DATE72.RND file for
[holey shit..how could I not recall that guy's name??!!!!] when
I first started working for DEC. That means that the functional
spec was written in 1971. So it took 4 years to get it right.
Pete Conklin bore a lot of the headaches in that project; he
had a lot of influence on VMS.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
Steve O'Hara-Smith
"Dennis Ritchie" <d...@bell-labs.com> wrote:
DR> (This also was the year of the "nixonflg").
It pauses syslogd ?
Seriously I'll bite, what did the nixonflg do ?
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Steve O'Hara-Smith <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
>On 2 Oct 2002 06:11:16 -0700
>sho...@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) wrote:
>
>TS> Indeed, my copy of the V3 Unix man page for the "date" command shows
>TS> no mention at all of the year. In particular:
>
> I think the history of ctime() may be more relevant, it is
>specified quite carefully for that function and I'm pretty sure it's
>always the same <invitation for counter examples now open>. I know nothing
>of it before 4.3BSD other than the reference to "the time package
>contributed to Berkeley by Arthur Olson" in the BSD man pages.
>
I never minded date, but I think every single time I used ctime(),
I cursed the embedded newline. How in the world did _that_ happen?
Ted
Dennis Ritchie
"Steve O'Hara-Smith" <ste...@eircom.net> asked
> DR> (This also was the year of the "nixonflg").
>
> It pauses syslogd ?
>
> Seriously I'll bite, what did the nixonflg do ?
1973-74 was the period not only of the heating up of Watergate,
but also a wide spreadspread energy (particularly gasoline) crisis.
"On 4 January 1974, Nixon signed into law the Daylight Saving Time Energy
Act of 1973. Then, beginning on 6 January 1974, implementing the
Daylight Saving Time Energy Act, clocks were set ahead for a
fifteen-month
period through 27 April 1975."
So the nixonflg insisted on DST adjusment in the local version of ctime(3),
even in the winter.
Eventually arguments involving kids waiting for schoolbuses in the morning
dark prevailed over the energy arguments.
Dennis
Steve O'Hara-Smith
"Dennis Ritchie" <d...@bell-labs.com> wrote:
DR> 1973-74 was the period not only of the heating up of Watergate,
DR> but also a wide spreadspread energy (particularly gasoline) crisis.
Right, also rampant infalation in right pondia. Then it stopped,
petrol didn't get any cheaper but everyone stopped crying crisis. As
a fourteen year old I found it most perplexing.
DR> Eventually arguments involving kids waiting for schoolbuses in the
DR> morning dark prevailed over the energy arguments.
Sheesh, you had that sort of madness too.
Thanks for the explanation.