Male Aes Seadi
James Healy
Why do all the Asha'man seem stronger than the Aes Seadi in Crown of
Swords? I thought they were only stronger with fire and Earth?
ABYSS
Wolf
I remember someone saying that men were usually stronger in the power
(except compared to the forsaken). I think it was when Rand asked Asmodeus
about linking. Asmodeus said that maybe the reason women could link without
a man was to make up for men usually being stronger.
James Healy <ab...@axs.com.au> wrote in article
<33A5F7...@axs.com.au>...
Grey
The men were, comparitive to their other powers, stronger in fire and
erath, while women were generally better suited to water and air. Men,
however, seem to be stronger than women in all the powers.
Steve
Wolf <n194...@student.fit.qut.edu.au> wrote in article
<01bc7b12$704180a0$c5d6...@beaches.bayside.net.au>...
> I remember someone saying that men were usually stronger in the power
> (except compared to the forsaken). I think it was when Rand asked
Asmodeus
> about linking. Asmodeus said that maybe the reason women could link
without
> a man was to make up for men usually being stronger.
>
> James Healy <ab...@axs.com.au> wrote in article
> <33A5F7...@axs.com.au>...
> > Why do all the Asha'man seem stronger than the Aes Seadi in Crown of
> > Swords? I thought they were only stronger with fire and Earth?
> >
There is actually a very good description of why men are stronger than
women in one of the books. I can't remember which people were discussing
this... I somehow keep thinking Egwene... but the idea was that on the
whole, male channelers are stronger than women channelers, sort of like how
men are physically larger than women on the whole, but there are instances
where women are actually stronger than men...
There is also mention that men are stronger with fire and earth, while
women are stronger with air, and water, but what one can do with one weave,
the other can do in like.
For example in tSR, when Rand describes how he put out the fire by taking
in the heat, and spreading it into the stones of the fireplace, Elayne
cradles her arm in memory of the blisters she got when she tried putting
out a candle that way. Aes Sedai have burst into flame by taking heat into
themselves.
Marc Staniford
I was wondering why if men are stronger in fire does it seem that the
one trick even the most weak novice can do is light a candle. Isn't
that the first thing that Moi taught Eg to do in EotW? I would think
that the women would start with something like moving a book with air.
-marc
Unknown
>I was wondering why if men are stronger in fire does it seem that the
>one trick even the most weak novice can do is light a candle. Isn't
>that the first thing that Moi taught Eg to do in EotW?
Actually no. The first thing Moi taught Eg to do was make a little
light glimmer in Moi's focus stone. Eg was bad and lit a fire once on
her own (I guess cuz she really needed to), but she was unable to
repeat it. She was also able to influence the size of a flame in the
beginning of TGH at Fal Dara. Also, wasn't there some mention
somewhere that Eg is one of the few women who was strong in Earth and
Fire? }-]
Brian K. Miller
Draktar wrote in article <33a7d72...@news.mindspring.com>...
Yes, this is clearly stated in The Great Hunt and is one of the reasons
the Seanchan wanted to return with her to Seandar. They wanted to use her
strength in Earth and Fire to locate metal ores.
Balls of light seem to be the first trick that Elayne and Egwene both
manage any real compentency in. <See The Great Hunt, page 357> I suppose
it is safe to assume that similar lessons are the starting point for most
novices and Egwene's experiments with Fire are unusual, to say the least.
The one thing I am not sure of is how they generate the balls of light
without Fire. Spirit and Air, I suppose, but I for one would really like
to see more two or three line descriptions of what weaves they are
actually using when they channel. The half-formed concept of magic is one
of the few weaknesses that occasionally bother me. True, it's a step
above the usual 'so-and-so did not know how they did something, they just
did it', but only a small one.
greyhawk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.crisscross.com/users/greyhawk/manor.htm
Drop by sometime and read a few lines.
Brian K. Miller
Cryptangelus <shb...@york.ac.uk> wrote in article
<5o65m3$d2v$5...@netty.york.ac.uk>...
> Ysgrifennodd James Healy (ab...@axs.com.au):
> : Why do all the Asha'man seem stronger than the Aes Seadi in Crown of
> : Swords? I thought they were only stronger with fire and Earth?
>
> were much stronger than the AS forces overall.
>
> The Asha'man are just that, warriors of the OP. It might be more
accurate
> to say that they are weapons rather than warriors; they are trained for
> war and trained hard. Fire and Earth are the most useful in mage-storm
> battles (the Asha'man trick of blowing apart someone's head is not
> something any AS can manage, AFAIK) and the Asha'man had a better
tactical
> position in any case.
>
> My point is that effective strength is not the same as OP strength;
> remember that if it comes down to it, the Asha'man carry swords as well,
> and Red sisters don't have warders. This gives them an immeasurable
> advantage in combat, since all they really need to do is hold off the AS
> with the OP while using the sword.
>
> In addition, the tactical and strategic potential of Gateways is immense
-
> almost nowhere is safe against a SWAT team of Asha'man.
>
> <Says he, speaking from a position of ten years of fantasy roleplay
> specializing in the tactical use of wizards>
>
For what it's worth, I agree completely.
greyhawk
faf...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
James Healy (ab...@axs.com.au) wrote:
: Why do all the Asha'man seem stronger than the Aes Seadi in Crown of
: Swords? I thought they were only stronger with fire and Earth?
: ABYSS
Here's a thought. The One Power seems to be a great pool of energy that
Aes Sedai tap into. All Aes Sedai (and Wisewomen and Windfinders and
Damane) tap into the same source.
All fifty or so Ashaman tap into the equally large but male half of the
true source.
Are we making some connections here?
--
A wonderful world it is that has
stupid green dragons in't!
email: faf...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
James E. Blundell
Nights wrote:
>
> The men seem to be stronger because they have none of the restrictions
> placed upon them like the Aes Sedai do about 'burning out' etc. etc. Plus,
> do not forget that all the men who can channel are the probably the
> descendants of the strongest band of male channelers ever. That was the
> only way that male channeling could have survived for so long since the
> Dark One put his taint on Saidin. Anyway, that's my theory.
> --
> "Understand the Darkness that exists within your soul
> and only then will you trully be enlightened"
>
> Nights
> nig...@mariahc.com
> > Swords? I thought they were only stronger with fire and Earth?
> >
> > ABYSS
> >
I still have to give the *nod* to Asmodean's little explanation...men
are just stronger than women for the most part. There are exceptional
occasions but that's just the way it is. And as far as the restrictions
go, that's only placed on AS learning "too fast", they are encouraged to
be as strong as they can be with time. That's probably one of the
reasons it takes them so dang long to become full AS, they're still
maturing in the OP as well as learning all the diplomatic/social skills
necessary to be ambassador types. Asha'man just kill things. That
makes it fairly simple.
Victoria Van syckle
don't forget that the Asha'man know they are fighting. The Aes Sedai 1)
don't know the Asa'man are there and 2) can't sense them channeling. This
does give the Asa'man a powerful advantage. Don't you think?
Vikki
"Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time, may learn the truth too late."
Cyberbilly Deathtrooper
Nights wrote in article <01bc7e54$a02ba9e0$bda121cb@pentiumpro>...
>The men seem to be stronger because they have none of the restrictions
>placed upon them like the Aes Sedai do about 'burning out' etc. etc.
Plus,
>do not forget that all the men who can channel are the probably the
>descendants of the strongest band of male channelers ever. That was the
>only way that male channeling could have survived for so long since the
>Dark One put his taint on Saidin. Anyway, that's my theory.
>>
>
Nonsense. it's for the same reason that most men are physically stronger
than the average woman. nature just made us that way, that's all.
Randall Judd
> I believe you would be hard pressed to prove men were more powerful than
> women in AOL. I don't think that's so. Quote 'em if you got 'em, punk.
>
> --
> A wonderful world it is that has
> stupid green dragons in't!
> email: faf...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Asmodean seams to think so. It's too long to quote but the last two
paragraphs
of page 75 (over to page 76) (hardcover) in TFoH chapter Pale Shadows
Asmodean
speaks to the relative strength of men and women and states that in
general men
are stronger.
Also on page 27 of TFoH in the prologue there is the paragraph
'"Is he really so strong?" Rahvin asked quietly. "This Rand al'Thor.
Could he have overwhelmed you, face-to-face?" Not the he himself could
not, if it came to it, or Sammael, though Graendal would likely link
with Lanfear if either of the men tried.'
So Rahvin thinks that he and Sammael are both stronger than Graendal and
Lanfear indicating that in general men are stronger.
It is also evident from the number of women who are capable of making a
gateway
compared to the number of men who seem able.
There is more to it than strength though. A lot seems to have to do
with skill
and talent. There is the relative weak Wise Woman in Ebou Dar who
shields Nynaeve
and states that this was always a talent with here and that she could
shield
one of the forsaken. (This is in ACoS)
Of course none of this is PROOF. These Forsaken were probably lying to
us
for some unknown reason. But it suffices for me.
Randy Judd
BEMORUD
Here Here! What a nice post!
One little detail you left out when refering to the AS, though.
As far as has been speculated and pondered by Semihrage, the Oath Rod not
only
binds oaths into the user, it also shortens the lifespan and lessens the
power available
to the AS.
Ordieth
Steve Woodward
How about this excerpt of a conversation between Asmodean and Rand, Fires
of Heaven pgs. 75-76 (hardcover):
Asmodean: " '...Perhaps in the grand scheme of the Pattern, it's a balance
for men being stronger. ...'
Rand was sure he had caught a lie, this time. Moirane said that in the Age
of Legends men and women had been equally strong in the Power, and she
could not lie. He said as much, ...
Asmodean: '... it is also true that what a man can do with one, a woman can
also. In kind, at least. But that has nothing to do with men being
stronger. What Moiraine believes to be truth, she tells as truth whether
or not it is; one of a thousand weaknesses in those fool Oaths. ... Some
women have stronger arms than some men, but in general it is the other way
around. The same holds with strength in the Power, and in about the same
proportion.'
Since Asmodean lived in the AoL, I guess that makes him the "expert".
Sorry, fafnir.
Steve
faf...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote in article
<5opcs2$i20$1...@news.sas.ab.ca>...
> Sos (can...@york.ac.uk) wrote:
> : On 20 Jun 1997 faf...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
> (my stuff)
>
> : >
> : No we're not men have ALWAYS been stronger than women in the OP on
average
> : even in the AOL. The OP is not like a big pool with people dipping
water
> : out - it can't be emptied. BTW there are a couple hundred (at least)
> : asha'man
GaidinJT
The theory that all male Aes Seadi are descendents of the strongest
Males of the "Age of legend" May not necessarily be true. Through out
the series of books Jordan makes not that "Wilders" are a common place
accurance. And since it hasn't been established that "Wilders" are
sterile I would assume it is possible for a Female "Wilder" to have a
male who can channel.
chri...@peraspera.se
In 24 Jun 1997 21:06:10 GMT, faf...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () wrote:
>Sos (can...@york.ac.uk) wrote:
>: On 20 Jun 1997 faf...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
>(my stuff)
>
>: >
>: No we're not men have ALWAYS been stronger than women in the OP on average
>: even in the AOL. The OP is not like a big pool with people dipping water
>: out - it can't be emptied. BTW there are a couple hundred (at least)
>: asha'man
>
>: _____ ____ _____
>: / ____|/ __ \ / ____| Carl Norris | Real science - the kind
>: | (___ | | | | (___ 3rd Year Electronics | you can use to give
>: \___ \| | | |\___ \ University of York | something 3 extra legs
>: ____) | |__| |____) | can...@york.ac.uk | and then blow it up
>: |_____/ \____/ _____/ | - Terry Pratchett FOC
>
>
>Why did you feel it necessary to email me this as well?
>
>I believe you would be hard pressed to prove men were more powerful than
>women in AOL. I don't think that's so. Quote 'em if you got 'em, punk.
>
>
>--
>A wonderful world it is that has
> stupid green dragons in't!
>email: faf...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
>
I don't remeber where I read it but one of the books states that men
are stronger in two of the powers and females in two others
and both sexes were about the same strenght in spirit
--
Mandarb (The greatest horse ever)
Check "http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/8660/"
doug lucas
the one power.
Lee Garrett
On Sat, 28 Jun 1997 19:38:49 -0400, GaidinJT <Gaid...@concentric.net>
wrote:
Hello
This is the first involvement in a thread that I have posted
so forgive me my mistakes/regurgitations.
Would it not be reasonable to assume that the pattern would
ready each side for the inevitable Tarmon Gai'don (The wheel weaves
etc......), hence bolstering in areas lacking and maybe handicapping
or "preening" in others. If this is the case then the apparant
strength differences between male and female channelers could be a
temporary thing. Sure, Asmo said that males were naturally stronger
than females but this could be a negligible difference when compared
to the power inbalance between an aes sedai of the last major war and
one of the third age. For example , Verin Sedai, (who was born long
before the DR and before the stirs of the DO),and Nynaeve, who is of
the same genaration as Rand and two other Ta'veren. This would tie in
well with the discovery of 20+ powerful channelers from the Two Rivers
(in LoC) and also the skills of Elayne and Egwene as angreal worker
and dreamwalker.In summary, I suppose what I am trying to say is that
maybe powerful channelers only appear when the pattern deems it
nescessary, and the reason all the men seem stronger is because they
are all "pattern enhanced" wheras regular Aes Sedai are not.
I'm sure there will be a lot of posts dissproving my theory
but I thought it was a good first try.
Yours hoping for not to big a hammering
Lee
S.L. Atkinson
chri...@peraspera.se wrote:
> >
> >I believe you would be hard pressed to prove men were more powerful than
> >women in AOL. I don't think that's so. Quote 'em if you got 'em, punk.
> >
> >
> >--
> >A wonderful world it is that has
> > stupid green dragons in't!
> >email: faf...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
> >
> I don't remeber where I read it but one of the books states that men
> are stronger in two of the powers and females in two others
> and both sexes were about the same strenght in spirit
> --
> Mandarb (The greatest horse ever)
> Check "http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/8660/"
I'm only on book 5, The Fires of Heaven, (for the first time).
In chapter 3, Pale Shadows, Asmodean/Natael is talking to Rand about women
being able to link their powers, which men cannot do without the aid of women.
I quote:
'... Perhaps in the grand scheme of the Pattern, it's a balance for men being
stronger. We cannot link without them, but they can without us.' etc.
Stuart.
James R
Lee Garrett <l...@the-annexe.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
: Would it not be reasonable to assume that the pattern would
: ready each side for the inevitable Tarmon Gai'don (The wheel weaves
: etc......), hence bolstering in areas lacking and maybe handicapping
Yes, that's a fine theory. It made me wonder about something. Isn't the
Dark One supposed to be outside the Pattern ? How then do all the
prophecies etc. about him arise ? Or are the prophecies about mortals, and
therefore connected to the pattern ? Just wondering.
--
*
Q. What happened then ?
A. He says " I have to kill you because you can identify me."
Q. Did he kill you ?
ja...@snakebite.com
Lee Garrett
Maybe the DO planted the prophecies himself in an attempt to bend the
outcome of TG to his own design before actually winning. Having said
that the last battle itself was prophecised, so maybe he didn't.
any more ideas????
Lee