Lawrence and the new log..... I mean Thought!
Robert Dye
but lay something heavy on you I must. I'm not an intellectual. Okay, you
knew that already. What I meant to say was I'm a bit thick. Okay okay, you
knew that too. I've varicose veins on one testicle. You didn't know that!
Where I'm pitching, and I appreciate your patience, is that Lawrence's
appeal to me should be of no great surprise. There are many parallels with
Momus, as he explains within his new Thought, but my thinking is also of
the huge differences between them which makes them the flip sides to each
respective coin face.
You see there are various areas of discussion and documentation on Momus
and by Momus that I find difficulty to entwine with because of my own
intellectual limitations, although privately I spend many an hour examining
subjects throughout this group and at Momus HQ that you guys and gals rub
your chins to. That's great for me. A kind of on-going mature student
course for Robert Dye for which most tutors would run a mile. So thanks a
lot, it's greatly appreciated and just because I don't crash into many a
thread, it doesn't mean I'm not fascinated.
But this is where Lawrence falls in because I've always felt (really!) that
he leaves the door ajar for someone like me, who ever I should be. He
flirts with the intellect where Momus bathes in it. Both site the same
subject matters with great humour and sincerity but the results couldn't be
further apart. Grandad's False Teeth and Coming In A Girls Mouth for an
immediate example to provide to this mostly organic (now is that a strange
contradiction?) posting. Momus's appeal geographically is far, far
widespread, I'm sure we would all agree, making him one of the worlds
globalist of artists, whereas Lawrence's appeal in respect to the humour,
is often very localised, as borne out through the lack of comment here at
afm on his main stay within the new Thought.
Momus, with his upbringing and parental intellect, has almost been groomed
for the far flung, experiencing citizenship in 3, 4 different countries
before he'd spent his teens. Lawrence, very different. Birmingham bred,
where he has based most of his life. Interestingly, whilst Momus is keen to
plant himself somewhere (London for example) so he can go_out_and_kick
against struggles, which he has documented for a reason for wanting to
leave Paris as they nestled to cosy with his philosophies, Lawrence's time
on the other hand, side of coin, in Birmingham, has been spent firmly in
his own confinement with a close habitat ignoring_ the_ place he struggles
with.
And yes, they are both unlikely pop stars. Nick Currie with his mild
manners and Lawrence with the tantrums maybe, but not about rock follies
such as smashing a hotel room television set, oh no, a broken seal on his
toilet seat! I remember seeing Lawrence at the Wag club, attending a
pre-release Ping Pong karaoke show. He strolled in with bags of shopping
from the supermarket! He could so easily have been a Mark E Smith, no
discredit to the guy whose strict loyalty to his upbringing has held him in
good stead for 30 over albums, but Lawrence seemed to have fled the nest
somewhere and I don't know when but I would love to see his openness in a
way that we all can enjoy that of Momus's.
As for Takako Minekawa, I'm glad that Nick turned Lawrence on to Cloudy
Cloud Calculator because I'm sure he loved that art work alone. To think
that whilst he wrote Supermarket, in the same year Takako wrote Kraftpark
(Micro Trip Edit), must have brought a smile to his face I'm sure. Parallel
minds, where they both do a great spoof of Kraftwerk.
"Just before the new year, Lawrence came round to see me", but I wonder if
Nick let him pay a visit!
Robert
ps. regarding Lawrences attention for detail re bar-coding, look no further
than the strictest disciplines between the Felt compilations on_diifering
_lables, Absolute Classic Masterpieces on Cherry Red and Absolute Classic
Masterpieces Volume 2 on Creation. He must have had some clout and
determination
Robert Dye
> ps. regarding Lawrences attention for detail re bar-coding, look no
further
> than the strictest disciplines between the Felt compilations on_diifering
> _lables, Absolute Classic Masterpieces on Cherry Red and Absolute
Classic
> Masterpieces Volume 2 on Creation. He must have had some clout and
> determination .........
.......beyond that of Peter Saville, I meant to say.
Robert..............slightly miffed although not surprised that no one else
here wants to join in with the Lawrence thread.
la...@my-deja.com
"Robert Dye" <dyea...@easynet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Robert..............slightly miffed although not surprised that
> no one else here wants to join in with the Lawrence thread.
My hesitation would be due to my almost complete lack of knowledge
of Lawrence... I do remember him from Felt, with pretty, soaring
tunes like "Primitive Painters" (that sounded so good in the car,
too, riding around at night with my best friend who was a Felt fan)
-- I don't know his more recent work at all, but I have to say
that the recent thought devoted to him made me very much intrigued
by him as a *character*. Anybody with a fear of cheese is just all
right with me.
Layna (former vegan, cheese my downfall)
--
Reply to layn...@worldnet.att.net
(but first let the cat out)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Robin Carmody
flu, rampaging through Britain to make me feel even more removed from Momism
than usual. Anyway, Robert wrote:
> But this is where Lawrence falls in because I've always felt (really!)
that
> he leaves the door ajar for someone like me, who ever I should be.
Although I'd say that Jarvis Cocker provided a taste of Momism for many
people who would *never* have listened to the real thing ...
He
> flirts with the intellect where Momus bathes in it. Both site the same
> subject matters with great humour and sincerity but the results couldn't
be
> further apart. Grandad's False Teeth and Coming In A Girls Mouth for an
> immediate example to provide to this mostly organic (now is that a strange
> contradiction?) posting. Momus's appeal geographically is far, far
> widespread, I'm sure we would all agree, making him one of the worlds
> globalist of artists, whereas Lawrence's appeal in respect to the humour,
> is often very localised, as borne out through the lack of comment here at
> afm on his main stay within the new Thought.
Exactly ... while Momus's work has a profoundly globalist spread of
reference points, Lawrence's work with Denim referred back to any number of
things ("Robin's Nest", the Glitter Band, I could go on) which would
probably mean absolutely nothing to most people here, but would have quite a
powerful resonance for anyone who experienced Britain in the 70s.
> Momus, with his upbringing and parental intellect, has almost been groomed
> for the far flung, experiencing citizenship in 3, 4 different countries
> before he'd spent his teens. Lawrence, very different. Birmingham bred,
> where he has based most of his life.
True ... the parochial British experience of the 70s quite simply never
happened for Momus, and if it had his music would be a long way from what it
is. Their lives were just so different ... you can say the same about other
Momus-like British songwriters. Think of Jarvis, recalling a low-rent 70s
northern English fantasy of the year 2000, with the futurism desperately
trying to escape the poverty of expectation, and portraying the tedium and
ennui of Sheffield's Meadowhall shopping centre on a grey Sunday afternoon.
Think of Belle & Sebastian's Stuart Murdoch, fixated with unfulfilled lives,
a sense of failure, Glasgow at its rainiest and most threatening. You can
hardly compare the experiences, they were so different.
Interestingly, whilst Momus is keen to
> plant himself somewhere (London for example) so he can go_out_and_kick
> against struggles, which he has documented for a reason for wanting to
> leave Paris as they nestled to cosy with his philosophies,
Yes, I get the impression that Momus is now at his happiest when he *does*
have to fight battles, because it inspires him to kick against the confines
of his surroundings ... he's said that living in Paris made him almost too
self-satisfied ("There weren't any battles to fight. My references were all
mainstream thinking.") and he takes this perverse pleasure from being up
against it ("I find it quite inspiring to live in this country and be
opposed to so many things that it stands for.").
Lawrence's time
> on the other hand, side of coin, in Birmingham, has been spent firmly in
> his own confinement with a close habitat ignoring_ the_ place he struggles
> with.
And, of course, there's a flavour of a decayed 70s vision about Birmingham
and its surrounds, from the area's football teams (most of which are less
successful now than they were then, living off their past glories) to the
shopping centres and tower blocks which Momus refers to. I'm *very*
impressed by the reference to Martin Parr's "Boring Postcards", and I'm
intrigued that this Thought appears just after I published my thoughts on
Plone (which is temporarily offline) referring to Birmingham's "abandoned
cities-in-the-sky". No wonder so much retro-utopianism has originated from
the West Midlands recently ... when you go there, its echoes surround you.
> And yes, they are both unlikely pop stars. Nick Currie with his mild
> manners and Lawrence with the tantrums maybe, but not about rock follies
> such as smashing a hotel room television set, oh no, a broken seal on his
> toilet seat! I remember seeing Lawrence at the Wag club, attending a
> pre-release Ping Pong karaoke show. He strolled in with bags of shopping
> from the supermarket! He could so easily have been a Mark E Smith, no
> discredit to the guy whose strict loyalty to his upbringing has held him
in
> good stead for 30 over albums, but Lawrence seemed to have fled the nest
> somewhere and I don't know when but I would love to see his openness in a
> way that we all can enjoy that of Momus's.
See what you mean about Mark E.'s "strict loyalty to his upbringing", his
defiant Mancunianism and turning himself almost into a self-parody (as Momus
said of Morrissey, I find his interviews often more entertaining than his
music). But I can say this ... as soon as the flu relents enough for me to
leave these confines, I'll be getting hold of "Instant Wigwam and Igloo
Mixture". And I am convinced that I will love it ...
Robin
Robert Dye
la...@my-deja.com wrote in article <85ld4p$hev$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> My hesitation would be due to my almost complete lack of knowledge
> of Lawrence... I do remember him from Felt, with pretty, soaring
> tunes like "Primitive Painters" (that sounded so good in the car,
> too, riding around at night with my best friend who was a Felt fan)
> -- I don't know his more recent work at all, but I have to say
> that the recent thought devoted to him made me very much intrigued
> by him as a *character*. Anybody with a fear of cheese is just all
> right with me.
>
> Layna (former vegan, cheese my downfall)
Howdie Layne!
Well I'm a pescatarian who also lurves cheese as blue as my varicose veins.
Mind you, Liz Fraiser dueting with Lawrence is the only time I've known her
not to sing gobbledeegook. Lawrence probably said 'no crap'. Droll. This
one could run and run.
Robert
Mark Gallacher
at university many years ago played me Grey Streets from Forever Breathes
the Lonely Word. I went out religiously after thought and bought every album
from the uncompromising (and now to be honest quite tedious) Crumbling the
Antisceptic Beauty throught the varied delights enhanced by Duffy's Hammond
and on to Me and my Monkey on the Moon then onto Denim's erm moments. Anyway
his new band Go Kart Mozart, any good? Yip I loved Felt.
----- Original Message -----
Robin Carmody <ro...@elidor.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:85llth$m5o$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
Robert Dye
Robin Carmody <ro...@elidor.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in article
<85llth$m5o$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> Although I'd say that Jarvis Cocker provided a taste of Momism for many
> people who would *never* have listened to the real thing ...
Well I'm not so sure Robin. It seems to me that Jarvis has targeted an
audience with ghastly irony, as I think he really loathes The Sun reader
but easily jumps into bed with them. A quick step into Top Of The Pops.
> > He flirts with the intellect where Momus bathes in it. Both site the
same
> > subject matters with great humour and sincerity but the results
couldn't
> > be further apart. Grandad's False Teeth and Coming In A Girls Mouth for
an
> > immediate example to provide to this mostly organic (now is that a
strange
> > contradiction?) posting. Momus's appeal geographically is far, far
> > widespread, I'm sure we would all agree, making him one of the worlds
> > globalist of artists, whereas Lawrence's appeal in respect to the
humour,
> > is often very localised, as borne out through the lack of comment here
at
> > afm on his main stay within the new Thought.
>
> Exactly ... while Momus's work has a profoundly globalist spread of
> reference points, Lawrence's work with Denim referred back to any number
of
> things ("Robin's Nest", the Glitter Band, I could go on) which would
> probably mean absolutely nothing to most people here, but would have
quite a
> powerful resonance for anyone who experienced Britain in the 70s.
Yes, Lawrences pesona allows him to gatecrash very droll affairs, to which
I feel he does pill off better than Jarvis to agree on your previous point
Robin.
> > Momus, with his upbringing and parental intellect, has almost been
groomed
> > for the far flung, experiencing citizenship in 3, 4 different countries
> > before he'd spent his teens. Lawrence, very different. Birmingham bred,
> > where he has based most of his life.
>
> True ... the parochial British experience of the 70s quite simply never
> happened for Momus, and if it had his music would be a long way from what
it
> is. Their lives were just so different ... you can say the same about
other
> Momus-like British songwriters. Think of Jarvis, recalling a low-rent
70s
> northern English fantasy of the year 2000, with the futurism desperately
> trying to escape the poverty of expectation, and portraying the tedium
and
> ennui of Sheffield's Meadowhall shopping centre on a grey Sunday
afternoon.
> Think of Belle & Sebastian's Stuart Murdoch, fixated with unfulfilled
lives,
> a sense of failure, Glasgow at its rainiest and most threatening. You
can
> hardly compare the experiences, they were so different.
Nice broadslide Robin!
> But I can say this ... as soon as the flu relents enough for me to
> leave these confines, I'll be getting hold of "Instant Wigwam and Igloo
> Mixture". And I am convinced that I will love it ...
Try not to clog up a bed at The West Dorset County Hospital Robin, if
that's my way of wishing you a speedy fix-up!
But talking of Gate Keepers, that McGee has told Lawrence no more Cilla
Black songs, so I think Lawrence has made another novelty Denim album here
for sure. I can see the speeded up vocals of Mrs Back To Front for example
will grate with many although I think it's a bit of a take on of Bohemian
Rhapsody. I'm very impressed that most of the tracks are really short,
dispossing of an idea quickly and moving on, Drinkin 'Um Bongo being the
best example. This album could easily of been a twelve tracker of 4-6
minute songs like Back In Denim, which would have given Lawrence a better
time with the media, but I like the effect it has of the mix that On Ice
gave, with a slice and twice as nice.
You could paly the first two Denim albums to anyone really, particulary the
first, but I wouldn't bully anyone into listening to IWAIM, which for me,
makes it all the more special.
Don't buy this album. Okay, go on then!
Robert
Robert Dye
Mark Gallacher <ma...@vanhaddock.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in article
<85lp18$9if$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> Well Robert, Im a fan of Mr Lawrence Hayward myself since a friend of
mine
> at university many years ago played me Grey Streets from Forever Breathes
> the Lonely Word.
Yes, that Sale Of The Century Runaway Organ is as funny as it is brilliant.
How did they do that!?
> from the uncompromising (and now to be honest quite tedious) Crumbling
the
> Antisceptic Beauty
Well for me, the last quarter saves it, so yes, I agree with you Mark.
> his new band Go Kart Mozart, any good? Yip I loved Felt.
If you struggle with Denim Mark, I think Go-Kart Mozart, being more of the
recent Denim will wind you up.
But hey, the sleeve notes I'd read to anyone!
Robert
Pansie Cola in yr group
>Black songs, so I think Lawrence has made another novelty Denim album here
>for sure.
No more Cilla Black songs?! Cilla's musical heritage is richer than
McGee thinks. Her 1967 film 'Work is a 4 letter word' has a trip
sequence with electronic music by the wonderful and possibly legendary
Delia Derbyshire. And if that wasn't enough, Delia also did some
squelchy stuff for Cilla and Frankie Howard's show at London's
Piccadilly Theatre. OK, so Miss Cilla didn't caterwaul along to the
dities, but they accompanied her fake-scouse exploits all the same.
"I've never met the girl in my life", protests Delia, quite reasonably.
Markie Cola
http://www.pansiecola.demon.co.uk
Robert Dye
> No more Cilla Black songs?! Cilla's musical heritage is richer than
> McGee thinks. Her 1967 film 'Work is a 4 letter word' has a trip
> sequence with electronic music by the wonderful and possibly legendary
> Delia Derbyshire. And if that wasn't enough, Delia also did some
> squelchy stuff for Cilla and Frankie Howard's show at London's
> Piccadilly Theatre. OK, so Miss Cilla didn't caterwaul along to the
> dities, but they accompanied her fake-scouse exploits all the same.
> "I've never met the girl in my life", protests Delia, quite reasonably.
>
> Markie Cola
> http://www.pansiecola.demon.co.uk
Markie, I'm just browsing your incredible web site. I've only hit two
icons, David cassidy and and amazing tube culture map!
Bookmark this site now readers!
MCgee? More like McGoo, with dropping 18 Wheeler and Momus.
Robert
CountV
the Usenet, for all the world to see, the following:
> Drunk on the
> flukish success of Oasis, he completely lost his taste threshold. I mean,
> Hurricane #1? Mishka? One Lady Owner?
Three Colors Red?
--
JohnT/CountV
"Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this." - Tony Soprano
Design by Coercion - New Years update, with image manipulation section;
http://www.m-ideas.com/coercion/index.htm
Robin Carmody
> > Although I'd say that Jarvis Cocker provided a taste of Momism for many
> > people who would *never* have listened to the real thing ...
Robert wrote:
> Well I'm not so sure Robin. It seems to me that Jarvis has targeted an
> audience with ghastly irony, as I think he really loathes The Sun reader
> but easily jumps into bed with them. A quick step into Top Of The Pops.
See what you mean about Jarvis circa 1995 jumping into bed with the people
he actually despised, but he was the only remotely Momus-like person that
mid-90s Britpop audiences went for. I knew a lot of people back then who
basically listened to Oasis and their imitators, and the only band they
liked I was interested in was Pulp. Maybe he did get a lot of people
moshing to "Mis-Shapes" without listening to the lyrics, but if he was
disgusted with that misappropriation he showed it with This Is Hardcore,
IMHO.
> But talking of Gate Keepers, that McGee
That column would've been stronger if a few digs at Grand Poobah Al had
replaced Nick's rather tasteless (IMO) comparisons of himself to Stephen
Lawrence (though I appreciate that was only a means of relating it to the
inquiry which had just been published at the time). Expect more anti-McGee
vitriol in approx. 3 minutes ...
has told Lawrence no more Cilla
> Black songs, so I think Lawrence has made another novelty Denim album here
> for sure. I can see the speeded up vocals of Mrs Back To Front for example
> will grate with many although I think it's a bit of a take on of Bohemian
> Rhapsody. I'm very impressed that most of the tracks are really short,
> dispossing of an idea quickly and moving on, Drinkin 'Um Bongo being the
> best example. This album could easily of been a twelve tracker of 4-6
> minute songs like Back In Denim, which would have given Lawrence a better
> time with the media, but I like the effect it has of the mix that On Ice
> gave, with a slice and twice as nice.
>
> You could paly the first two Denim albums to anyone really, particulary
the
> first, but I wouldn't bully anyone into listening to IWAIM, which for me,
> makes it all the more special.
>
> Don't buy this album. Okay, go on then!
Oooh, yes ...
Robin
Robin Carmody
> vitriol in approx. 3 minutes ...
Erm, sorry it took me 22 minutes:).
Robin
Robin Carmody
> Markie, I'm just browsing your incredible web site. I've only hit two
> icons, David cassidy and and amazing tube culture map!
>
> Bookmark this site now readers!
Robert, you latecomer!
I first visited this site in March 1999!
And it has been on Momus's links page for the best part of a year!
But yes, a wonderful site. And I don't just say that because "Robin Cola"
is me:).
> MCgee? More like McGoo, with dropping 18 Wheeler and Momus.
For me it wasn't so much who he dropped (although getting rid of Momus was a
shameful act, which seems to have made him feel like he would *never* be
accepted in Britain) but who he *signed* in the later years. Drunk on the
flukish success of Oasis, he completely lost his taste threshold. I mean,
Hurricane #1? Mishka? One Lady Owner? Who did he think he was fooling?
Not us. Some of us remember "Tender Pervert", "Loveless", "Screamadelica"
and the rest, and he lost himself on retro-mania.
Not that I particularly admired the man even then. His "Rebellious Jukebox"
in a 1994 Melody Maker was an act of unintentional comedy, staggeringly
funny but at the same time somewhat disturbing. "Waterloo Sunset" was
"everything I think is beautiful ... how I wish England still was" (even
Damon Albarn would never have worshipped so much at the altar of Ray
Davies), "What's Goin' On" was the greatest album ever made. The Stones
were the greatest rock band ever. And so on. Ad infinitum. Ad nauseam.
Maybe, like Duglas Stewart, the man had another side which the MM and NME
hid. But somehow I don't think so. This gatekeeper just about let Momus in
... but he was happier to throw him out.
Oh yes, and the best band in the world, Robert:).
Robin
Robert Dye
> Robert wrote:
>
> > Markie, I'm just browsing your incredible web site. I've only hit two
> > icons, David cassidy and and amazing tube culture map!
> >
> > Bookmark this site now readers!
>
> Robert, you latecomer!
So am I.
> I first visited this site in March 1999!
I had no idea sitting at the back here. I must pay more attention.
> And it has been on Momus's links page for the best part of a year!
> But yes, a wonderful site. And I don't just say that because "Robin
Cola"
> is me:).
Hah!! You sly 'ol fox you! Fantastic, Robin. Most excellent indeed. I'm
gonna surf it a-plenty tonight.
Robert
Mark Gallacher
CountV <co...@REMOVETHISm-ideas.com> wrote in message
news:B4A7F033.D08E%co...@REMOVETHISm-ideas.com...
> On 00/01/16 21:40, Robin Carmody <ro...@elidor.freeserve.co.uk> uploaded
to
> the Usenet, for all the world to see, the following:
>
> > flukish success of Oasis, he completely lost his taste threshold. I
mean,
> > Hurricane #1? Mishka? One Lady Owner?
>
Pansie Cola in yr group
>
>Markie, I'm just browsing your incredible web site. I've only hit two
>icons, David cassidy and and amazing tube culture map!
Why, thank you everso. It isn't really MY site (there's a few
collaborators, including Robin), but I guess I'm the one who pays the
phone bill to upload it all. So I'll take credit for the donkey work.
>
>Bookmark this site now readers!
>
>MCgee? More like McGoo, with dropping 18 Wheeler and Momus.
It appears Steve Sutherland has packed his guitar-shaped ashtray into
his Beatles backpack and left the NME. Any more myopic gatekeepers
catching the rock bus outa town?
Robin Carmody
> his Beatles backpack and left the NME.
I have heard this elsewhere ... the inbred masonry of this urban hamlet will
ensure he is succeeded from within.
Any more myopic gatekeepers
> catching the rock bus outa town?
Ah, Mr Lamacq, here's your P45 ...
Robin