KODT and Furry: Part the 1st - The Original Letter
Gabriel Gentile
<spook...@earthlink.net> to Knights of the Dinner Table Magazine
<mai...@kenzerco.com> on the date of April 9, 2002, entitled "For "BACK
ROOM AT THE GAMES PIT"", which was later printed in the "Back Room At The
Games Pit" section of "Knights of the Dinner Table" Magazine (issue #67, May
2002 "Stand By Your Clan") as "On Furry-Bashing":
> Every gamer who has been around long enough to have experienced it has some
> sad, bitter memories of the "Great Gamer Scare". Those days where, due to
> misinformed and slanderous publicity, you were afraid to reveal to anyone but
> each other that you were a gamer out of fear that you would be branded a
> Satanist, demon worshiper, or worse. Fortunately, those days have, for the
> most part, subsided, and the beloved hobby has not only survived, but gone on
> to become bigger than anyone ever could have imagined. All those involved have
> every right in the world to be both relieved and very proud of themselves for
> this.
>
> Alas, I come here today to not only heap praise, but to plead for help, for at
> this very moment, there is another group that is facing the very same problem.
>
> A short while ago, a nation-wide television network broadcast and exposé on a
> group of people known as "furries". To have this network tell it, "furries"
> are a bunch of yahoos and deviants who like to "do the deed" with animals,
> stuffed toys, and each other while dressed in sports mascot type costumes.
>
> As a genuine member of the "furry" community, I myself can say, honestly and
> without pretense, that the truth of the matter is much more sublime.
>
> "Furries" are, for the most part, a community of intelligent, rational,
> relatively well-behaved human beings who share a particular fondness for
> different forms of media (books, movies, television, games, etc.) that feature
> animal or animal-like characters in prominent roles.
>
> True, like any community, including gamers, there is always a "lunatic fringe"
> that behave in a manner as portrayed in the exposé. But in relation to the
> many people who make up the whole of the furry community, these people (and I
> use the term loosely) make up about 10%, TOPS.
>
> Alas, the stone has been cast, and the damage has been done. We are, at this
> very moment, facing the repercussions of the exposé, and a great amount of
> turmoil has arisen in our community. As a result, we are left to ask ourselves
> a very important question;
>
> "What can we do?"
>
> In hopes that I may find some answers to this question, I have decided that
> there is a group that we may turn to for advice. A group that has both faced
> and triumphed over just such a difficulty. A group that, I'm proud to say,
> I've been a part of for nearly two decades.
>
> That group is YOU, my fellow gamers.
>
> I graciously invite all those who would be willing to offer whatever advice or
> encouragement they can, to do so. I am sure that if the many ideas and
> thoughts I have read in this forum throughout my years of reading KODT is any
> indication, I can expect excellent results to my plea for help.
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
> Gabriel Gentile
> Chicago, Illinois
Gabriel Gentile
appeared in the "Back Room At The Games Pit" section of "Knights of the
Dinner Table" Magazine (issue #67, May 2002 "Stand By Your Clan").
Please note that some sections of the responses have been slightly modified
for the sake of maintaining the anonyminity of concerned parties to spare
them from repercussion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. As posted on the Kenzer & Company online discussion forum on June 15th,
2002, and later reprinted in the "Back Room At The Games Pit" section of
"Knights of the Dinner Table" Magazine (issue #70, August 2002 "I Know What
You Role-Played Last Summer") entitled "Let The FUR Fly"
> This post is both a response to Gabriel's letter as well as a short lecture on
> the furry fandom for those unfamiliar with the term.
> In response to the letter, I do have one comment to make on the whole
> furry-bashing topic, but I find it highly doubtful that any furries will like
> it: start acting maturely in public or when reporters are around. now, before
> anyone misinterprets this as a flame, let me assure you that I, myself am an
> antropomorphic artist--I prefer not to use the title "furry" due to the
> attatched sexual connotations many people now have--and despise how the media
> twists and exagerates our behavior just as much as you. However, as you most
> certainly know, there are still people who do the sort of outrageous sexual
> acts reported in [NAMES OF VARIOUS COMPANIES WITHELD] and numerous other
> publications (see [NAME OF WEB ARCHIVE WITHELD] for a complete listing of
> such events as well as numerous essays, websites, etc. on the subject), and
> are often perfectly okay, if not outright supportive of how non-furries see
> them, playing "freak the mundanes" at conventions and when the media are
> around, promoting the very sort of image that so many furries, such as
> yourself, are trying to eliminate from the public's eye.
> Unfortunately, many furries tend to be overly sensitive and will lash out at
> anyone attempting to alter their behavior, a good example being what happened
> to the [GROUP NAME WITHELD], a group of furries who were so fed up with the
> irresponsible behavior of their peers thst they formed a group to try and stop
> it. Needless to say, they were all but flamed into oblivion by their tenacious
> opponents; they called nazis, facists, communists and all sorts of other
> endearing names, harassed, mailbombed, etc..
> Personally, I find the future of the furry fandom very bleak, given the large
> influx of furries who joined the fandom for the sole purpose of fulfiling
> their sexual kinks and fetishes, and the fact that the few who seem to care
> tend to either get ignored, flamed, or so exasperated that they leave (if I'm
> not mistaken, I believe both founders of [GROUP NAME WITHELD] have left the
> fandom). Anyway, since it's unlikely that anyone will follow the advise that
> has been given, our only hope seemes to be that some other subculture attracts
> the media's attention enough that we might be forgotten while they rip into
> the other unfourtunate group like a pack of wild dogs into a wounded deer.
>
> -Anonymous
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2. As Posted on the Kenzer & Company online discussion forum on July 8, 2002
> Ok This forum does take some getting used to, I acidentaly posed with out
> loging in and it poped up as anonymous because I thought I already was. since
> there has been so much goffy things said about anonymous posts I thougt I
> should repost it under my own name.
>
> Ok I Have to start out by saying that I have actualy meet Gabriel, or as he is
> refered to in my game group as the "Infamous Gabriel". I could bore and
> disgust every one with the litany of non-furry grevences that we have against
> him, but that would be rude and weaken what I have to say. I think that there
> should definalty be a separation of the differnt fandoms. The people that like
> anthoporphic art and fiction should be considered a diferent catergory from
> the perverts. There is no reason that a RPG gamer should have to pay to suprt
> anime events and vice versa. This goes double for Furries I don't want to go
> to a con if I know there are going to be furries there. I'm not a hateful
> person, but I have never meet a furry that I liked (incuding Gab). Gamer are
> pretty tolerant people but there are many insidences of hostilities and out
> right violence between the two groups. For instance, my father had to punch
> out a furry that kept on bothering my step-mother. Now my father never goes to
> mixed conventions it's Star Trek only from now on for him. More than the
> general population the gamer community can be justifed in not likeing furries.
> Not that we hate all people who like anthroporphic art, just because of the
> like the art. What we do hate are jerks. I guy in a fur suit dry humping
> strangers is the same think as a regularly dressed guy doing the same thing.
> So my advice is for all the normal people to leave furry fandom or kick the
> perverts out. Personaly I resent Gabriel for asking Gamers for help seeing
> that jerks in fur suits has ruined so many convetions.
>
>
> MEOW
> Edited by [NAME DELETED] (07/08/02 12:06 AM)
[SIC]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. As posted on the Kenzer & Company online discussion forum on August 14,
2002
> Gabriel, you wanted a solution to the problems facing furry fandom? It
> honestly isn't that easy, and this is coming from someone who has been
> involved in gaming since the days of Chainmail and furry and anime fandom
> since the late 70s. I've personally been through the "devil worshipping"
> nonsense, watched when gamers were considered nerds who couldn't get a date to
> save their lives. I went through the stage in anime fandom when we were all
> thought of as teenage perverts who drooled after pre-teen topless girls with
> big eyes. And I watched furry fandom go from something fun and harmless to
> it's current state where people are considered sex-crazed losers, only too
> happy to go after the family dog.
> What happened in all three cases? In gaming and anime, nothing. It was all a
> misperception by an ignorant public and generally ignored by gamers and anime
> fans. It blew over and the truth was eventually known. Today there are major
> conventions dedicated to gaming and anime, and you can't find a general
> convention anywhere that doesn't have both gaming and anime tracks.
> So what's furry's problem? Simple, it isn't a misperception, furry's problems
> are real. That's not to say that *ALL* furry fans are perverts, but the
> loudest, rudest and most annoying segment of them are. And if you want to know
> what started it all, I'd be happy to tell you.
> [EVENT NAME WITHELD] was the first furry convention. It was not only a place
> for furs from across the country to meet, but it was extremely influential on
> the entire fandom. What was seen and sold and talked about there pretty much
> shaped the face of the fandom in the days before the Internet. The first few
> conventions were wonderful, extremely little 'adult' content, not because it
> wasn't allowed, but because artists and writers simply weren't interested.
> However, at [EVENT NAME WITHELD], the founders of the convention decided it
> would be a wonderful idea to start advertising for memberships in 'alternate
> lifestyle' magazines. This brought a slew of new blood into the fandom, people
> who were there strictly for sex and had no clue why all these people who liked
> anthropomorphics were there. They showed up for a porn convention. Suddenly,
> you had people in drag and leathergear running around a convention that had
> previously been family-acceptable. As time has gone on, these and many other
> perverts have come to adopt the fandom as their home, mostly because they have
> been run out of every other fandom on the planet.
> And why do they come to furry fandom, you ask? This absolutely ridulous
> concept of 'tolerance'. Tolerance isn't bad, you say? You're right, in
> perspective, but this is tolerance beyond reason. Basically, intolerance of
> anything for any reason is shouted down in furry fandom. You're expected to
> respect the pedophiles and the bestialists and the age-players and the
> snuff/vore crowd and anyone else that comes along. "Accept my perversion and
> I'll put up with yours" is the catch phrase in furry fandom.
> Every fandom has their lunatic fringe. Gaming has the people who think they
> really *ARE* their characters. Anime has the people who dye their hair blue
> and want to pilot mecha. Star Trek has the people who dress as Klingons for
> job interviews. However in furry fandom, the lunatics have taken over the
> asylum, driving out most of the good people and giving those few that remain a
> horrible reputation.
> Now, you asked for a solution. There isn't one. Until the decent fur fans
> stand up and demand, in force, that the idiots and perverts get out of their
> fandom, things will just get worse and worse until furry fandom is once again
> just a fringe fandom, hated by just about everyone.
> Gaming survived it's challenge by fire. So did anime. So has just about every
> fandom on the planet, but I see little or no hope for furry fandom until the
> decent people stand up and say enough is enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. As published in the "Back Room At The Games Pit" section of "Knights of
the Dinner Table" Magazine (issue #69, July 2002 "For Those About To Hack)
entitled "FURther Details On Furry"
> A recent letter to your publication from Gabriel Gentile (aka SpookyBunny) is
> being passed around among the furry community. Ironically, his letter was
> quoted to the [GROUP NAME WITHELD] mailing list immediately on the tail of a
> discussion about sexual fetishes, and why certain ones (zoophilia,
> transgenderedness, age-play and vore) seem to be commonplace in the furry
> fandom, while being rare outside of it. Equally ironically, a discussion about
> how to put working sheaths and strategically placed holes in fursuits popped
> up at about the same time on [GROUP NAME WITHELD], a usenet group for the
> furry fandom.
> I've been a fursuiter for some seven or so years. I know the people in the
> [COMPANY NAME WITHELD] documentary, as well as the fellow who produced it, and
> I'm intimately familiar with the fursuiting scene. I've built fursuits,
> performed in them, and won awards for them. The program was shallow (and the
> fast cut editing quite distracting) but on the whole it was accurate, as far
> as it went.
> [NAME WITHELD] spent several years attending cons, befriending furs, and doing
> his research, and it shows. The only real fault I can find with it was the
> comment that "it's all about sex". There's quite a bit more to furriness than
> sex, but sex is currently a major component of furridom.
> A quick perusal of the two premier furry art sights [WEB ADDRESS WITHELD] and
> [WEB ADDRESS WITHELD] should make the point.
>
> -[NAME WITHELD]
> Columbus, Ohio
> via e-mail
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5. As published in the "Back Room At The Games Pit" section of "Knights of
the Dinner Table" Magazine (issue #69, July 2002 "For Those About To Hack)
entitled "Ruffled Fur"
> I am writing in response to Gabriel Gentile's heartfelt plea for understanding
> in the Back Room of issue 67, concerning the recent bad press and general
> prejudice experienced by members of the Furry Community as a result of an
> injurious television broadcast. He likes this to the experiences of gamers in
> earlier times, when exposés of RPGs resulted in accusations of devil-worship
> and witchcraft.
> As the saying goes, some of my best friends are Furry, and I can also speak of
> the hurt that many of them feel when falsely accused of deviancy and
> fetishism. Furries are creative, humorous people who get together to share
> their common interest exactly the same way as do fans of science fiction,
> fantasy, gaming, comic books, what-have-you.
> However, I would like to point out a distinction between the current
> predicament of Furries and that experienced by Gamers; and it is that the
> accusations against Gamers were wholly and completely without merit. The
> actual number of Satanic [PRODUCT NAME WITHELD] groups was exactly zero, while
> by Gabriel's own admission 10% of the Furry community does behave themselves
> in a way consistent with their bad press.
> I will assert tat the "undesirable element" among Furries is probably much
> smaller than this, and I certainly would fight to uphold the value that
> Furries bring to Fandom. Let's face it, animals are fun and their inclusion in
> gaming, media, costuming, etc., is enriching and marvelous. I am glad that
> this newly emerged area of our shared (sub-) culture is gaining prominence and
> recognition.
> But the fact is that there does exist a "lunatic fringe" whose behavior is far
> from wholesome. I am not a prude, and I am not someone who believes in forcing
> my own codes of behavior on others. But I have met Furries who openly state
> the sexual nature of their hobby, and I find it disturbing that adults with
> such inclinations are drawn to a venue that particularly appeals to children
> and adolescents.
> So, what to do? Let me suggest we use a different model to think about the
> "Furry Predicament" than the one Gabriel introduced: when I was in college, I
> gamed practically every day, and a certain percentage of people who gamed also
> enjoyed taking illegal drugs. Over time the behavior of this minority
> threatened our access to public gaming spaces, so as a community we instituted
> a zero-tolerance for it.
> Frankly, we loved gaming more than we loved the company of folks who got high.
> For many, the choice was not easy, but it forced out the people who saw gaming
> generally only as an excuse to get high. We did lose some good gamers, but as
> a whole, our community was more healthy, and people learned that some behavior
> was better pursued elsewhere than at the gaming table.
> Can Gabriel and other like-minded Furries do the same with their community? I
> suppose it's a matter of will, and the enforcement of behavior codes at Furry
> events. You may lose community members who only look at Furry events as an
> opportunity to "hook-up". but perhaps it'll be a more family-friendly
> environment overall.
> Assuming that's your goal, of course. I for one wish them all good luck! and
> keep the faith; you have allies among the dice-slingers.
>
> -[NAME WITHELD]
> Orlando, Florida
> via e-mail
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6. As published in the "Back Room At The Games Pit" section of "Knights of
the Dinner Table" Magazine (issue #70, August 2002 "I Know What You
Role-Played Last Summer") entitled "Strange Worlds"
> I've been reading KODT since the beginning and have watched it grow over the
> years. This is the first time I've written. Up until now, I've been content to
> lurk and enjoy the magazine but I felt it was time to finally throw my two
> cents into the fray.
> First off, I think you guys are doing a wonderful job. If it weren't for KODT,
> I'd be lost as far as what's going on in the gaming world. There are no game
> stores in my area and my gaming group dispersed years ago. My only link to the
> hobby I love so much is your magazine. The strips make me laugh and remember
> old friends long gone. But the extra content keeps me in tune with what's
> going on in the world of gaming. It also feeds the hope that one day I will
> get motivated and pick up those dice again (I just bought over 100 bucks worth
> of [PRODUCT NAME WITHELD] figures online, so perhaps I'm not lost after all).
> The real reason I'm writing is that I was astonished to learn of the world of
> "furry" in issue 67 and 68's Back room section. I was convinced it was a joke.
> Something fabricated by your fertile imaginations to spoof the anti [PRODUCT
> NAME WITHELD] antics of certain fringe groups of the 70's/80's. Imagine my
> astonishment when I recently stumbled across a "furry" site.
> Good lord. It was true. An entire hidden world I never knew existed.
> I have mixed feelings about the furries. On one hand, it seems strange and
> silly- even disturbing. On the other hand it's obvious that those involved are
> part of a tight-nit community and having a great time doing something they
> love.
> So I'm taking the stance that even though it's not my cup of tea, to each his
> (or her) own. I have no idea if the [COMPANY NAME WITHELD] piece was unfair.
> (I didn't see it). But the fact that so many furries were so upset by the
> documentary tells me that it probably was unfair and put a spin an an easy
> target. Something we as gamers should all be able to relate to.
> That's all I wanted to say. Thank you for expanding the format of the comic to
> include thought provoking and informative content.
>
> -[NAME WITHELD]
> via e-mail
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Please note that the thoughts and opinions expressed in the above
reprintings are those of the individual authors, and do not necessarily
reflect those of Mr. Gabriel Gentile himself.
Akai
"Gabriel Gentile" <spook...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B9804ED7.19689%spook...@earthlink.net...
> The following is a series of reprinted responses to "On Furry-Bashing" as
> appeared in the "Back Room At The Games Pit" section of "Knights of the
> Dinner Table" Magazine (issue #67, May 2002 "Stand By Your Clan").
>
> Please note that some sections of the responses have been slightly
modified
> for the sake of maintaining the anonyminity of concerned parties to spare
> them from repercussion.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Good selection of responses there...very telling. I do have to say that the
KODT magazine is pretty fair overall....I recall months ago that they gave a
pretty positive review of Ironclaw.
Gabriel Gentile
> KODT magazine is pretty fair overall....I recall months ago that they gave a
> pretty positive review of Ironclaw.
Of course they did, it's a good game. Why, were there negative reviews
elsewhere?
Blackberry
>
>The following is a series of reprinted responses to "On Furry-Bashing" as
>appeared in the "Back Room At The Games Pit" section of "Knights of the
>Dinner Table" Magazine (issue #67, May 2002 "Stand By Your Clan").
Eh. They're generally more legible than standard anti-furry writings, but they
don't contain any new information.
And I'm pretty sure that just as many gamers are "perverts".
--
"Blackberry is better looking and easier to use." -- Google
Rann Aridorn
Twins doing a poledance that they wrote:
> And I'm pretty sure that just as many gamers are "perverts".
Yeah. And then one must take into account the "generalized image".
Generalized Image of Furries: Weird people who like to have sex while
wearing mascot uniforms.
Generalized Image of Gamers: Mass murderers waiting to happen.
Now, let's seeeeee... which image is worse? Hmmmmmm...
--
-Rann Aridorn
==========================================================
"Now, Diggers, let's... not lose our temper... violence is NOT the
answer!"
"You're right, Gothwrain. It's not the answer. Violence is a question...
the -answer- is YES!"
-Gold Digger #4
Cerulean
>Generalized Image of Furries: Weird people who like to have sex while
>wearing mascot uniforms.
>
>Generalized Image of Gamers: Mass murderers waiting to happen.
>
>Now, let's seeeeee... which image is worse? Hmmmmmm...
The former. Puritan America is still so conflicted about sex that
there is nothing more scandalous than a sex scandal.
"Excuse me! I've just killed someone! And I did it ON PURPOSE!"
--The villain in Last Action Hero discovering reality
--
___vvz /( Cerulean = Kevin Pease http://cerulean.st/
<__,` Z / ( DC2.~D GmAL~W-R+++Ac~J+S+Fr++IH$M-V+++Cbl,spu
`~~~) )Z) ( FDDmp4adwsA+++$C+D+HM+P-RT+++WZSm#
/ (7 ( hJJaLd-,,hemhue 6u!ua+s!7 s! auo-ou 'a)edS uI,,
Gabriel Gentile
> Generalized Image of Gamers: Mass murderers waiting to happen.
I'm sorry, I must have missed that one. As far as I can tell, the whole
"Demonically possessed psycho" image was dismissed as hysterical rubbish by
all but the most maniacal religious groups a long while ago.
It has since been replaced by the "Quite likely to die a virgin" image.
Rann Aridorn
Puma Twins doing a poledance that they wrote:
>
>> Generalized Image of Gamers: Mass murderers waiting to happen.
>
> I'm sorry, I must have missed that one. As far as I can tell, the
> whole "Demonically possessed psycho" image was dismissed as hysterical
> rubbish by all but the most maniacal religious groups a long while
> ago.
You must get even less news than I do, then, because some "expert" even
tried to blame the 9/11 attacks on video games. Video games are one of
the "Evil Three" that the media and parental groups of many stripes
continue to blame their lousy kids on.
1. Violent video games.
2. Loud rock music.
3. Violent movies and TV shows.
All three are still quite gleefully pounced upon and pointed to by
almost any media outlet, via only making MENTION that "So-and-so teen
gunman listened to Marilyn Manson", but why mention it if they weren't
coyly fueling the flames? (The guy's an asshole, true, but I hardly
think you can blame your kids taking out a high school on him.)
Now... worship the cute!
--
-Rann Aridorn
========
You WILL worship the cuteness!
http://www.hamtaro.com
Little hamsters, big adventures.
Hamtaro... anime hamsters, providing some giggles, some smiles, and a
good deal of aural prozac with their theme music.
Hamtaro: The cure for flamewars.
Put this in your hampsterdance and click it!
Gabriel Gentile
rann...@attbi.com wrote on 8/15/02 3:46 PM:
> Gabriel Gentile <spook...@earthlink.net> was so distracted by the
> Puma Twins doing a poledance that they wrote:
>
>>
>>> Generalized Image of Gamers: Mass murderers waiting to happen.
>>
>> I'm sorry, I must have missed that one. As far as I can tell, the
>> whole "Demonically possessed psycho" image was dismissed as hysterical
>> rubbish by all but the most maniacal religious groups a long while
>> ago.
>
> You must get even less news than I do, then, because some "expert" even
> tried to blame the 9/11 attacks on video games. Video games are one of
> the "Evil Three" that the media and parental groups of many stripes
> continue to blame their lousy kids on.
> 1. Violent video games.
> 2. Loud rock music.
> 3. Violent movies and TV shows.
Oh, well, then it's a case of miscommunication. Y'see, when I say "gamers",
I mean "people who are heavily into the hobby of playing role-playing games
such as Dungeons & Dragons or collectible card games such as Magic: The
Gathering". Not necessarily "anyone who plays any kinds of games anywhere at
any time".
Gabriel Gentile
2002
> *Warning, contains some sections which may be considered inappropriate. Tried
> to make as nice as possible, but still contains sexual references. If you mods
> feel this is too much, feel free to delete*
> Furries are an easy target for bashing, simply because saying "Furry" brings
> up images of the extreme. Now, the thing is, most people don't care about the
> furry fandom who draw non-porn, and sit around roleplaying wolves on AOL
> instead of something else. Most non-furry geeks consider them a lower level of
> geek, yes, but generally, we don't care. The scary furries, however, combine
> the easiest things to make fun of on the internet. Just like [NAME WITHELD],
> the furry most think of is living a bit too much into the fantasy. Now, I've
> seen normal furry art, softcore furry porn(still disgusting, but somewhat
> erotic), and then the horrible stuff. Hopefully you guys know what I'm talking
> about, cause I won't describe it. Stuff that make grown men's eyes bleed. This
> is what people make fun of,because it is horribly sad.
> Now, like I've said above, most furry-bashers don't care about the guy who's a
> furry because he likes to play [PRODUCT NAME WITHELD], or anything like that.
> But the internet holds horrible things, and one of those things is hardcore
> furries. The types who go to furry conventions, and have other furries look
> down upon them. Those who make living selling pictures of multi-membered
> horses having sex with hermaphroditic lions that have sexual organs twenty
> times bigger then their bodies. The people aroused by things like that, people
> with major psychological issues. This being the internet, you don't see the
> sad person behind the drawings, simply the drawings, and you associate furries
> with those disgusting pictures. When I think of furries, and refer to them on
> the internet, I'm thinking of the ones with strategically placed holes on
> their fox-suits, going and meeting other people with holes strategically
> placed on their bear-suits.
> I can beleive people in the furry fandom non-sexually are fine, and I'm sure
> it could be interesting if you liked animals that much. But the sexual
> furries, even those without such exotic tastes, just aren't right. You can
> justify the roleplaying to me, hell, I play a game with Pixie-Faeries. But you
> will have a hard time convincing me that sexual things involving animals,
> suits, et cetera, are normal fetishes. If someone is attracted to cartoon
> animals, theres gotta be physcological damage. Theres not really even a
> physical aspect to it. With homosexuality, you could still find another
> man/woman attractive, and love them, but to find pictures of [COMPANY NAME
> WITHELD] characters sexy is just wrong.
> I'm going to continue making fun of furries when the subject comes up on the
> internet, but to those furries who don't partake in deviant sexual practices,
> don't be offended if someone makes fun of furries. They're talking about the
> realled horrible ones. But, if you're one who does take part in such things,
> don't delude yourself into thinking it's completely normal. I can't stop you
> from doing those things, but chances are there is a greater psychological
> problem.
> Well, hopefully I haven't offended too many people with this one. Again, keep
> in mind these are just my opinions on the subject, and don't really have any
> psychological data to base any claims on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. As posted on the Kenzer & Company online discussion forum on August 15th,
2002
> That's rather unfair though, don't you think? People are people, and there are
> just as many nutballs per capita in gaming circles as there are in furry
> fandom. Yes, the Internet has made it possible to see as many hermaphrodite
> big-breasted vixens as you might ever care to look at, but it's done the same
> for most things. The Internet is a bastion of free speach and free expression,
> and in general that's a very good thing.
> Most furries are not perverts, they simply enjoy what they enjoy. [CHARACTER
> NAME WITHELD] is furry. [CHARACTER NAME WITHELD] is furry. Heck, if you want
> to be serious, [PRODUCT NAME WITHELD] can be considered furry, as many of it's
> monsters are derived from real life animals.
> There are tons of RPGs that are based on animals as well, from [PRODUCT NAME
> WITHELD] to [PRODUCT NAME WITHELD] to [PRODUCT NAME WITHELD], etc. None of
> these have anything whatsoever to do with sex.
> Yes, there is a problem with perverted furry fanboys, just as there is with
> perverted gaming fanboys (ever see a game with a bunch of 13 year olds trying
> to sleep with all the female NPCs? It's not pretty). Just don't generalize the
> whole of the fandom based on a few bad seeds.
Brian Henderson
<spook...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Oh, well, then it's a case of miscommunication. Y'see, when I say "gamers",
>I mean "people who are heavily into the hobby of playing role-playing games
>such as Dungeons & Dragons or collectible card games such as Magic: The
>Gathering". Not necessarily "anyone who plays any kinds of games anywhere at
>any time".
You mean fanatics? Fanaticism in anything, be it gaming or anime or
furries is inherently unhealthy. All three are just a HOBBY!
Akai
No. I was just happy that they did not dismiss it outright because of its
content.
DishRoom1
>Gabriel wrote:
>>
>>The following is a series of reprinted responses to "On Furry-Bashing" as
>>appeared in the "Back Room At The Games Pit" section of "Knights of the
>>Dinner Table" Magazine (issue #67, May 2002 "Stand By Your Clan").
>>[...]
>
>Eh. They're generally more legible than standard anti-furry writings, but
>they
>don't contain any new information.
>
>And I'm pretty sure that just as many gamers are "perverts".
>
And I don't understand what one writer wrote that unlike furry, gamers and
anime had nothing to themselves to get the sterotypes. I mean, come on, there's
the guys who dress in Salior Moon outfits in anime.
And it makes me angry that there was a suggestion that all tolerated the
fur-verts, that oh woe-is-us they're taking over the fandom. And there's that
pesimisstic furry artist that plays that cowardly game of renaming "furry" as
"anthropomorpic".
John Shughart
bluecollie55 at Yahoo
DishRoom1
Hmmmm, I've seen furry porn and enjoyed furry erotic. I'm not psycological
damaged, (checks inside my skull for damage) Nope, not none.)
John Shughart
bluecollie55 at Yahoo
Gabriel Gentile
>> Oh, well, then it's a case of miscommunication. Y'see, when I say "gamers",
>> I mean "people who are heavily into the hobby of playing role-playing games
>> such as Dungeons & Dragons or collectible card games such as Magic: The
>> Gathering". Not necessarily "anyone who plays any kinds of games anywhere at
>> any time".
>
> You mean fanatics?
No, just people who are focused on a particular subject that serves as a
component for a greater area.
Brian Henderson
In other words, fanatics. A hobby is something you do for enjoyment
in your spare time. When it starts being something that interferes
with your life, or with things that you SHOULD be doing in your life,
then you're a fanatic.
I have no interest or compassion in fanatics.
Brian Henderson
>And I don't understand what one writer wrote that unlike furry, gamers and
>anime had nothing to themselves to get the sterotypes. I mean, come on, there's
>the guys who dress in Salior Moon outfits in anime.
Yes, and as the person who wrote that, I stand by it. Sure, anime has
it's share of nutballs and freaks, but you don't see people dressing
up as Sailor Moon and screwing each other in public, do you? In fact,
when was the last time you saw an anime costume that featured a
phallus anyhow?
>And it makes me angry that there was a suggestion that all tolerated the
>fur-verts, that oh woe-is-us they're taking over the fandom. And there's that
>pesimisstic furry artist that plays that cowardly game of renaming "furry" as
>"anthropomorpic".
Although things are getting better on the con circuit, in comics and
online it's still the same old hermaphroditic, massive-breasted vixens
in heat. While no one ever said that 'everyone tolerated the
fur-verts', try suggesting to *ANY* of them that their perversions are
not welcome in furrydom and they'll start calling you names. Hell,
there was a WAR when FurryMUCK decided to pull the 'pedophile' flag
out of their WIXXX. What does that tell you?
Rann Aridorn
Puma Twins doing a poledance that they wrote:
> fur-verts', try suggesting to *ANY* of them that their perversions are
> not welcome in furrydom and they'll start calling you names. Hell,
Who, exactly, is it that gets to decide which perversions, what
perversions, and who is allowed in or welcome in the fandom? Who,
exactly, has been unanimously declared the God of Furry?
> there was a WAR when FurryMUCK decided to pull the 'pedophile' flag
> out of their WIXXX. What does that tell you?
Somehow, I highly doubt anything that happens online could be referred
to as a war in the serious tone that you're applying it.
SilverJain
online it's still the same old hermaphroditic, massive-breasted vixens
in heat. >>
I return from beyond the grave to call bullshit. ^_^
Online, yes, there's more porn than you can shake a stick at. But that's true
for everything. There's way too much porn online in every fandom. Heck, people
are already drawing and posting naked pictures of Kim Possible.
But as pretty much the only remaining pro publisher of adult furry comics, I
gotta tell you the same thing I've been telling people for eight freaking years
now:
THERE ARE NOT THAT MANY ADULT FURRY COMICS.
Never have been. The clean furry comics outnumber the adult furry comics on a
scale of something like 15 to 1. (It's been a while since I counted everything
up.) Outside of Genus, there aren't even many adult furry comics that are on a
regular schedule- most are one-shots or specials. Fantagraphics/Eros alone
produces at least 6 to 8 non-furry porn comics every month. (That's an average
of 84 porn comics a year from Fantagraphics.)
Really, there isn't that much furry comic porn. I swear.
And now, once again, I'm outta here.
--Elin Winkler at Radio Comix
Selling my collections! Always different stuff! Check out the deals here:
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/silverjain/
Radio Comix Online:
http://www.radiocomix.com
artist
<cep...@directvinternet.com> say...
> On 16 Aug 2002 09:36:36 GMT, dish...@aol.com (DishRoom1) wrote:
>
>
>>And I don't understand what one writer wrote that unlike furry, gamers
>>and anime had nothing to themselves to get the sterotypes. I mean,
>>come on, there's the guys who dress in Salior Moon outfits in anime.
>
> Yes, and as the person who wrote that, I stand by it. Sure, anime has
> it's share of nutballs and freaks, but you don't see people dressing
> up as Sailor Moon and screwing each other in public, do you? In fact,
> when was the last time you saw an anime costume that featured a
> phallus anyhow?
Ummmm.... Er... *looks around nervously* Your kidding, right O_o?
Have you even seen any of the (generally bad) Cosplay sites out there
o_O?
<snip>
--
ICQ UIN# 106922763
AIM: GCCFurryBoy
Yahoo!Messenger: Okime_Kun
mell...@yahoo.com
http://www.practialdesigns.com/
"Neither hope no fear" -- Isabella d'Este
"For to do either is to fall to the beast" -- Joseph Richmond
Felyne32k
silve...@aol.comspampie says...
> << Although things are getting better on the con circuit, in comics and
> online it's still the same old hermaphroditic, massive-breasted vixens
> in heat. >>
>
>
> I return from beyond the grave to call bullshit. ^_^
>
> Online, yes, there's more porn than you can shake a stick at. But that's true
> for everything. There's way too much porn online in every fandom. Heck, people
> are already drawing and posting naked pictures of Kim Possible.
>
> But as pretty much the only remaining pro publisher of adult furry comics, I
> gotta tell you the same thing I've been telling people for eight freaking years
> now:
>
> THERE ARE NOT THAT MANY ADULT FURRY COMICS.
>
anyone's bothered to tell me (yon ZineSIL maintainer). I count four NC-
17 'zines (plus one that has an NC-17 issue once per year) and about as
many that'll take R material, out of twenty-six listed publications.
Hardly fifteen to one, but still not as bad as people might think.
--
-Felyne32k, supposed "English Major"
http://www.tigerden.com/infopage/furry/zines.txt
Cerulean
>Yes, and as the person who wrote that, I stand by it. Sure, anime has
>it's share of nutballs and freaks, but you don't see people dressing
>up as Sailor Moon and screwing each other in public, do you?
Do you see furries screwing each other in public? No, do you really?
Not hugging and backrubs, not casual sex in closed hotel rooms, not
jizz you found on the floor of an elevator. Let's hear your first-hand
account of furry freaks having sex in public. "EVERYBODY KNOWS it
happens all the time" is NOT an acceptable answer.
DishRoom1
><< Although things are getting better on the con circuit, in comics and
>online it's still the same old hermaphroditic, massive-breasted vixens
>in heat. >>
>
>I return from beyond the grave to call bullshit. ^_^
>
>Online, yes, there's more porn than you can shake a stick at. But that's true
>for everything. There's way too much porn online in every fandom. Heck,
>people
>are already drawing and posting naked pictures of Kim Possible.
>
>But as pretty much the only remaining pro publisher of adult furry comics, I
>gotta tell you the same thing I've been telling people for eight freaking
>years
>now:
>
>THERE ARE NOT THAT MANY ADULT FURRY COMICS.
>
>Never have been. The clean furry comics outnumber the adult furry comics on a
>scale of something like 15 to 1. (It's been a while since I counted
>everything
>up.) Outside of Genus, there aren't even many adult furry comics that are on
>a
>regular schedule- most are one-shots or specials. Fantagraphics/Eros alone
>produces at least 6 to 8 non-furry porn comics every month. (That's an
>average
>of 84 porn comics a year from Fantagraphics.)
>
>Really, there isn't that much furry comic porn. I swear.
>
>And now, once again, I'm outta here.
>
Furthmore, You don't too many herm vixens in heat in comic books and fan zines.
Maybe on some many online, but not often in print comics and fanzines, as far
as I can see.
And besides, doesn't anime/manga have its own X or NC-17 rated stuff, too? Like
Echhi?
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen
>Do you see furries screwing each other in public?
far far far far far far far far far far far far more often than I've actually
seen furries screwing in public, and I've been going to furry conventions for
nearly a decade now.
OTOH, Brian might just have been exaggerating to make some sort of point, but
that would raise the question of whether his point could stand on its own
merits instead of him making a mountain out of a Melville to make it seem more
important. Maybe he said "screwing each other in public" but what he meant was
something relatively benign like "scritching each other in public" or "making
animal noises" or "using the term 'furry'" or something.
Personally, I think if Brian's so worried about what other people think of us,
he should start putting some pants on when he leaves the convention hotel.
--
_________________________________________________
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen / Xydexx Squeakypony, KSC
"When I left the hotel, everything came off
except my con badge." ---Brian Henderson, 1997
Rann Aridorn
a poledance that they wrote:
> And besides, doesn't anime/manga have its own X or NC-17 rated stuff,
> too? Like Echhi?
Yeah, it's just not as big a deal because there's not so many people
running around screaming "It's ruining the fandom! It's ruining the
fandom!"
Hardly any, actually.
Brian Henderson
wrote:
>Who, exactly, is it that gets to decide which perversions, what
>perversions, and who is allowed in or welcome in the fandom? Who,
>exactly, has been unanimously declared the God of Furry?
Anything which casts an unfavorable light on others or is socially
unacceptable is a perversion. Simple enough.
>Somehow, I highly doubt anything that happens online could be referred
>to as a war in the serious tone that you're applying it.
They certainly took it seriously, so much so that the original WIXXX
program was removed by the author, who INSISTED that the pedophile
flag remain, and it was replaced by another program, sans flag.
Brian Henderson
wrote:
>THERE ARE NOT THAT MANY ADULT FURRY COMICS.
Um, Elin, there aren't that many furry comics period in the scheme of
things.
Brian Henderson
>Quoth Brian Henderson:
>
>>Yes, and as the person who wrote that, I stand by it. Sure, anime has
>>it's share of nutballs and freaks, but you don't see people dressing
>>up as Sailor Moon and screwing each other in public, do you?
>
>Do you see furries screwing each other in public? No, do you really?
>Not hugging and backrubs, not casual sex in closed hotel rooms, not
>jizz you found on the floor of an elevator. Let's hear your first-hand
>account of furry freaks having sex in public. "EVERYBODY KNOWS it
>happens all the time" is NOT an acceptable answer.
Actually, it has happened, and there certainly have been members of
the furry community who have made it their job to freak the mundanes.
Although I haven't seen it happen in a while, I've witnessed gay
couples sitting at the entrance to a hotel, WAITING for a mundane to
walk in the door so they can grope each other like there's no
tomorrow. And yes, I have seen people in fursuits bent over the
railings, humping each other. And fursuits with operating genitalia.
And people carrying their favorite stained lovetoy with the hole in
the backside...
Kory Anders
<cep...@directvinternet.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:23:24 GMT, Rann Aridorn <rann...@attbi.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Who, exactly, is it that gets to decide which perversions, what
>>perversions, and who is allowed in or welcome in the fandom? Who,
>>exactly, has been unanimously declared the God of Furry?
>
>Anything which casts an unfavorable light on others or is socially
>unacceptable is a perversion. Simple enough.
You do know that 'socially unacceptable' describes such things as
interracial or interfaith marriages in some parts of the US today?
no one in particular
"Kory Anders" <kori...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hcdulu01ng8hv8tt9...@4ax.com...
Yes, but on the positive and uplifting side it also covers any further
movies made by Yahoo Serious, the possibility of the reproduction of any man
with a Charisma of better than 15 with Brittney Spears, and further attempts
at making projectile vomiting a profitable group sport.
-Wayd Wolf
"Please wear the welder's goggles provided as Ms. Spears appears with her
newborn. Remember, do not stare directly into the baby. Anyone doing so must
succesfully save as if against a Charm spell or be forever reduced to a
cooing yutz."
Rann Aridorn
>>Who, exactly, is it that gets to decide which perversions, what
>>perversions, and who is allowed in or welcome in the fandom? Who,
>>exactly, has been unanimously declared the God of Furry?
>
> Anything which casts an unfavorable light on others or is socially
> unacceptable is a perversion. Simple enough.
Well, you're casting an unfavorable light on others, in my opinion, with
how you're carrying on. Guess you're perverted.
And which society shall we make ourselves acceptable to, exactly?
Somehow, I imagine that most of us have long ago become unacceptable to
most of society even without the "giant herms". No matter what, we are
different, and not everyone will accept us. You should learn to deal
with it instead of turning your anger at it on others.
>>Somehow, I highly doubt anything that happens online could be referred
>>to as a war in the serious tone that you're applying it.
>
> They certainly took it seriously, so much so that the original WIXXX
> program was removed by the author, who INSISTED that the pedophile
> flag remain, and it was replaced by another program, sans flag.
Well, that's the programmer's prerogative, just as it would be an
artist's prerogative to pull a pic from an archive rather than to have
it altered by others to make it "accepted".
no one in particular
"Rann Aridorn" <rann...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns926EB9D2EBAE...@204.127.202.16...
> Brian Henderson <cep...@directvinternet.com> was so distracted by the
> Puma Twins doing a poledance that they wrote:
>
> >>Who, exactly, is it that gets to decide which perversions, what
> >>perversions, and who is allowed in or welcome in the fandom? Who,
> >>exactly, has been unanimously declared the God of Furry?
A ninety-foot tall herm skunk with a leather fetish declared itself the
god of furry and has threatened to rain firey white liquid down on our
office buildings if we do not worship and contribute heavily to Doug Winger.
Personally, I'm not ready to fight back as I cannot find my rain coat.
-Wayd Wolf
Brian Henderson
wrote:
>You do know that 'socially unacceptable' describes such things as
>interracial or interfaith marriages in some parts of the US today?
To some fanatics, it describes letting blacks live, but I think that
most of us can see that extreme views are just that: extreme.
Rann Aridorn
>>You do know that 'socially unacceptable' describes such things as
>>interracial or interfaith marriages in some parts of the US today?
>
> To some fanatics, it describes letting blacks live, but I think that
> most of us can see that extreme views are just that: extreme.
Well, maybe you need to become a member of "most of us".
Daniel Cougar
(DishRoom1) writes:
>And besides, doesn't anime/manga have its own X or NC-17 rated stuff, too?
>Like Echhi?
Lemon is the usual name for it, based on the original "naughty" anime series
"Creamy Lemon."
Dan Cougar
I am of Mountain Lion, what I hunt, I find.
Furry Code:
FFMcm3arw A--- C- D-- H- M P- R++ T++ W Z- Sm- RLAT a+ ca++$ d-- e f- h i+$ j+
p+ sm-
Rann Aridorn
Puma Twins doing a poledance that they wrote:
>>And besides, doesn't anime/manga have its own X or NC-17 rated stuff,
>>too? Like Echhi?
>
> Lemon is the usual name for it, based on the original "naughty" anime
> series "Creamy Lemon."
"Lemon" is usually reserved for fanfiction. Pics, movies, etc. are
usually called hentai, which is literally "pervert" in Japanese.
Ben Raccoon
> Actually, it has happened, and there certainly have been members of
> the furry community who have made it their job to freak the mundanes.
> Although I haven't seen it happen in a while, I've witnessed gay
> couples sitting at the entrance to a hotel, WAITING for a mundane to
> walk in the door so they can grope each other like there's no
> tomorrow. And yes, I have seen people in fursuits bent over the
> railings, humping each other. And fursuits with operating genitalia.
> And people carrying their favorite stained lovetoy with the hole in
> the backside...
Do tell, when was the last time you saw this? I have yet to see or hear of
any of the aforementioned behavior ~actually~ happening in a public space.
Sure, there's always rumors of this person's friend's cousin's uncle might
have seen something that looked like it... five years ago.
--
-- Ben Raccoon
http://www.furnation.com/ben_raccoon
Brian Henderson
<ben_racco...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Do tell, when was the last time you saw this? I have yet to see or hear of
>any of the aforementioned behavior ~actually~ happening in a public space.
>Sure, there's always rumors of this person's friend's cousin's uncle might
>have seen something that looked like it... five years ago.
Last time I saw ALL of it at the same con was at ConFurence 5 or 6.
Last time I saw people freaking the mundanes was last year at SDCC. I
don't attend furry cons anymore, hence I don't see much of this, but
from people who do attend, they tell me that although it is better, it
still exists.
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen
>I don't attend furry cons anymore, hence I don't see much of this, but
>from people who do attend, they tell me that although it is better, it
>still exists.
I heard from a friend of a friend that someone might have done something at
a furry convention somewhere once. Clearly, we should all be vigilant and
make sure something like this never happens again.
--
_________________________________________________
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen / Xydexx Squeakypony, KSC
Anthrofurry Infocenter:
http://www.xydexx.com/anthrofurry
(Dr.-Cat-Style-Disclaimer: Something is always happening somewhere. It
happens here a lot more often, though.)
Gabriel Gentile
2002
> And as I just said, furry-bashers don't care about them. They make broad
> generalizations about all furries, when they mean only the perverted and
> deluded furries. If furriedom is just a hobby for you, you shouldn't care what
> the furry hatahs' are saying, they aren't talking about you. It's just easier
> to type "furry" than "the type of furrie who scares nearby pets". Sure, it is
> unjust to group people who are just roleplaying in there, but theres not much
> of a way to stop it, and so far as I know now, theres no one trying to put any
> anti-furry legislation into play. Right now, people have the right to be
> furries of all kinds, just as people who find the lifestyle funny have the
> right to talk about it. No one is threatening you right to do that(anyone who
> would care that much about furries is also a good target for internet humor),
> so my best advice would be to just ignore anyone making fun of furries. They
> don't pose you any harm, and trying to change anyone's mind on the internet is
> nigh-impossible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. As posted on the Kenzer & Company online discussion forum on August 15th,
2002
> That's true, but the actions of all, be they furries or gamers, reflect on
> everyone else in the genre. If I'm a gamer, there are those who are going to
> think I'm a mass murderer waiting to snap, or whatever, even if I'm the most
> well-adjusted person around. If I'm a furry, then people are going to assume
> that I go after small barnyard animals, even if it's completely untrue.
> And for some of us, our reputations matter to us. In fact, to some people, a
> good reputation is necessary for them to maintain their jobs. Is it fair for
> them to be denied their enjoyment simply because of the actions of some very
> loud and obnoxious bad eggs? It's driven some of the most creative minds from
> furry fandom so far.
> Further, as someone who has done plenty of work on conventions of all sorts,
> from gaming to furry to SF, the reputation of the fandom *DOES* have a serious
> impact on the ability to find a location to even hold a convention. Furry
> conventions have had hotels tell them to take a flying leap, simply on the
> basis of the bad reputation that the fandom has gathered. How would gamers
> like it if no hotel would rent space to [ORGANIZATION NAME WITHELD] because
> gamers had a bad rep? Oh well, no more [ORGANIZATION NAME WITHELD], but
> everyone has a right to act how they like, right?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. As posted on the Kenzer & Company online discussion forum on August 18th,
2002
> Well, I can't argue the fact that furry-bashing hurts the reputations of all
> furries. However, I will say that people like these fursuitters damage the
> reputation of furs just as much. Those photos are hilarious, and quite easy to
> make fun of. If people enjoy dressing up in wacky costumes, and pretending to
> be animals, then posting poictures for all to see, they can. But if you make
> availible, on the internet, pictures of you prancing about as a fox, there is
> little you can do to combat the negative image. Just as people bash
> roleplayers, goths, emo kids, ravers, et cetera, for how stupid they act, so
> will others make fun of furries.
> Now, I'm not saying it's right, nor could the bashing of anyone be ethically
> justified. However, people who find the furrie lifestyle funny should be free
> to discuss how funny it is amongst themeslves. I don't mind if people make fun
> of things I enjoy, as long as it isn't damaging. So, if you're on a non-furry
> forum and someone makes a furry joke, don't be so quick to bring it up(not
> using this forum as an example, by the way), it'll just start a flame war and
> bring more attention to furries, good and bad.
> The bigger problem seems to be damaging attacks on furries. Those spread by
> various media outlets (all furries have sex in fursuits), or when enough
> people somewhere on the internet deceide to DOS a furry message board, or
> something similar. Attacks such as these are almost as damaging to furry
> reputation as the percentage of highly visible 'hardcore" furries and
> fursuiters, but are more likely to hurt furry pride. what you must realize,
> though, is that until furries work to distance themselves from the fursuitters
> engaging in fetish sex, selling furrie porn on eBay, or generally acting
> depraved, everyone will associate the moderate furries with the obsessed ones.
> Aside from burned furs, I notice very little attempt to do this. The only
> action I see taken to give furries a better name is when on a messageboard, a
> topic such as this will come up, and one or two furries will try and save
> their images while dozens around them make fun of whatever other source of
> furry amusement has taken stage(such as the above website). There are too many
> obsessive furries out there, making webpages and getting their artwork or so
> forth out, that as long as both they and moderate furries are known by the
> same name, there is bound to be a connection.
> Well, that was long, and I didn't have much point to all of that, so I'll try
> and summerize. Thousands of furries are out there making bad names for the
> collective group, and until action is taken to make a point of having seperate
> groups of furries to the internet as a whole, you will likely change nothing.
> And that most everyone on this website is dressed in a comical manner.
> Also, don't take any of this too harshly. I'm trying not to start a flamewar
> here, so hopefully none of this sounded too insulting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. As posted on the Kenzer & Company online discussion forum on August 18th,
2002
> I've got no problem with fursuiters, they are no different than gamers who
> dress up in costume (and we all know the LARP crowd does it regularly). People
> who dress up in costume don't hurt the fandom in any way, unless they try to
> make it something sexual or deviant and that's when it crosses the line.
> I also don't see a problem with 'furry bashing' as it's not bashing when it's
> true. I don't blame Loaded or [COMPANY NAME WITHELD] or [COMPANY NAME WITHELD]
> when they find some of these freaks who are only too happy to talk about their
> sexual kinks (and demonstrate!) on camera. Granted, most of the big media
> isn't all that responsible, but that's no different whether they're reporting
> celebrities or furries or gamers, so you can't say they have anything in
> particular against the fandom. They just report (and sometimes invent) the
> news. The real problem is that there are so many of these seeming morons who
> are only to happy to trot out their particular perversions for the world to
> see and declaring them 'furry'. It's like having goth LARPers in black
> lipstick and fangs going on national TV and telling the world that they
> represent gamers. In a perfect world, the media would present a balanced view,
> but they are after ratings, not truth.
> I only wish the obsessed wouldn't be courted by the media, or that the media
> would have a little common sense and decency, but we know that doesn't sell,
> does it?
> By and large you're right though, most people don't bother trying to 'better'
> the fandom. Most people don't care about anything but their own selfish
> interests and if you talk to people who organize conventions, as I have,
> they'll tell you that trying to get anyone to volunteer for anything is like
> pulling teeth. So long as the fan is getting whatever they want out of the
> fandom, the rest can burn for all they care. That's true in furry, anime,
> gaming, [FRANCHISE NAME WITHELD]... you name it and it's unfortunate. If more
> people cared half as much about the fandom in general as they do about their
> own enjoyment, we could really go places.
Blackberry
>
>On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:23:24 GMT, Rann Aridorn <rann...@attbi.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Who, exactly, is it that gets to decide which perversions, what
>>perversions, and who is allowed in or welcome in the fandom? Who,
>>exactly, has been unanimously declared the God of Furry?
>
>Anything which casts an unfavorable light on others or is socially
>unacceptable is a perversion. Simple enough.
Many things are "socially unacceptable" in some places but perfectly acceptable
in other places. For instance, in some parts of the U.S. South, oral sex with a
consenting partner of "socially-acceptable" gender is unacceptable.
Who gets to decide?
--
"...only the government would call a half cup a reasonable serving of ice
cream."
- Consumer Reports
Blackberry
>
>Last time I saw ALL of it at the same con was at ConFurence 5 or 6.
You do realize that such events are what we call "in the past", right?
>Last time I saw people freaking the mundanes was last year at SDCC.
Comics fans like to freak mundanes, therefore furry fans have sex in public?
Elaborate.
>I don't attend furry cons anymore, hence I don't see much of this, but
>from people who do attend, they tell me that although it is better, it
>still exists.
What did your friends tell you happened at Anthrocons 99-2002? I've been to all
of those and didn't see anything of the sort.
Brian Henderson
<le...@NOanthrobunnySPAM.com> wrote:
>Many things are "socially unacceptable" in some places but perfectly acceptable
>in other places. For instance, in some parts of the U.S. South, oral sex with a
>consenting partner of "socially-acceptable" gender is unacceptable.
Oh, it might be on the books as illegal, but how many people get
arrested for it? Blue laws like that exist, but aren't taken
seriously. And I think you can get a blow job in the south just fine.
Brian Henderson
<le...@NOanthrobunnySPAM.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:43:01 -0700, Brian wrote:
>>
>>Last time I saw ALL of it at the same con was at ConFurence 5 or 6.
>
>You do realize that such events are what we call "in the past", right?
Something that happened 2 minutes ago is "in the past" too.
>>Last time I saw people freaking the mundanes was last year at SDCC.
>
>Comics fans like to freak mundanes, therefore furry fans have sex in public?
>Elaborate.
Actually, it was furs that were doing it. Furs do attend comic
conventions, you know.
Atara
<76r2mu0lu6jkijh2o...@4ax.com>:
> And I think you can get a blow job in the south just fine.
But ya can't sell vibrators.
--
Atara
"Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus."
http://www.FurNation.com/Atara/
***What doesn't fit in my email addy? NADA.***
Brian Henderson
<le...@NOanthrobunnySPAM.com> wrote:
>Many things are "socially unacceptable" in some places but perfectly acceptable
>in other places. For instance, in some parts of the U.S. South, oral sex with a
>consenting partner of "socially-acceptable" gender is unacceptable.
Oh, it might be on the books as illegal, but how many people get
arrested for it? Blue laws like that exist, but aren't taken
seriously. And I think you can get a blow job in the south just fine.
Brian Henderson
<le...@NOanthrobunnySPAM.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:43:01 -0700, Brian wrote:
>>
>>Last time I saw ALL of it at the same con was at ConFurence 5 or 6.
>
>You do realize that such events are what we call "in the past", right?
Something that happened 2 minutes ago is "in the past" too.
>>Last time I saw people freaking the mundanes was last year at SDCC.
>
>Comics fans like to freak mundanes, therefore furry fans have sex in public?
>Elaborate.
Actually, it was furs that were doing it. Furs do attend comic
conventions, you know.
sola...@don'tmesswithtexas.net
>cep...@directvinternet.com (Brian Henderson) wrote in
><76r2mu0lu6jkijh2o...@4ax.com>:
>
>> And I think you can get a blow job in the south just fine.
>
>But ya can't sell vibrators.
Wanna bet? Here in Texas, such devices are supposedly covered by blue
laws (not sure if it's a county-by-county thing, or if it's statewide), but
they're not at all hard to come by.... er, I mean, hard to - er, I mean,
DIFFICULT to obtain... :D
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"For the children" - the phrase politicians use to justify a course of action
so irrational it cannot be justified in any other way.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
solarfox@DON'TMESSWITHtexas.net (Gary Akins jr.)
http://lonestar.texas.net/~solarfox
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
no one in particular
"Dennis Lee Bieber" <wulf...@dm.net> wrote in message
news:q7q0musc8rh8mn6ch...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 Aug 2002 13:33:48 -0400, "no one in particular"
> <wayd...@nothotmail.com> (no one in particular) left the following spoor
> in alt.fan.furry:
>
> > Personally, I'm not ready to fight back as I cannot find my rain
coat.
>
(boggles)
I didn't even consider that reference. Yup, ya nailed me good Dennis.
(lol)
Let me rephrase...
-Wayd Wolf
no one in particular
"Blackberry" <le...@NOanthrobunnySPAM.com> wrote in message
news:ajr2h...@drn.newsguy.com...
(snip)
> Many things are "socially unacceptable" in some places but perfectly
acceptable
> in other places. For instance, in some parts of the U.S. South, oral sex
with a
> consenting partner of "socially-acceptable" gender is unacceptable.
>
> Who gets to decide?
Gabriel Gentile, Rann Aridorn, Michael Hirtes, and Bard Cat. Winners
will get to do something special with Bard Cat and the losers will get to...
do something special with Bard Cat.
-Wayd Wolf, still coughing over the audacity of the auction...
no one in particular
"Atara" <at...@mb.sympatico.caNADA> wrote in message
news:926FB140Ca...@66.120.4.171...
> cep...@directvinternet.com (Brian Henderson) wrote in
> <76r2mu0lu6jkijh2o...@4ax.com>:
>
> > And I think you can get a blow job in the south just fine.
>
> But ya can't sell vibrators.
> Atara
That's what a saddle horn is for. Godiva wasn't just riding for lower
taxes.
-Wayd Wolf
Rann Aridorn
the Puma Twins doing a poledance that they wrote:
> Gabriel Gentile, Rann Aridorn, Michael Hirtes, and Bard Cat.
You left yourself out of your little list, O Arrogant and Condescending
One.
no one in particular
> "no one in particular" <wayd...@nothotmail.com> was so distracted by
> the Puma Twins doing a poledance that they wrote:
>
> > Gabriel Gentile, Rann Aridorn, Michael Hirtes, and Bard Cat.
>
> You left yourself out of your little list, O Arrogant and Condescending
> One.
>
> --
> -Rann Aridorn
Oh please, Rann. And I was making you a cake. Just sit down in your high
chair at the kids' table and I'll be right along with it.
-Wayd Wolf
P.S.
Thhhhhbbbbbpppptttt!!!
no one in particular
"no one in particular" <wayd...@nothotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ajsdan$h8r$1...@raccoon.fur.com...
I almost forgot to mention that if you want to be acknowledged by me as
a fearful opponent for whose presence I was glad, you need a tougher name
like Fluffy or Sally Yellow-Feathers. So far, I've had a Rann, a Solarfox,
and a... gurgle... Doug.
Something like, Rann the Avenging Spirit of Gynotopia and Defender of
Public Virtue Against Fan Boys and Other Pathetic Threats. Or even just Rann
The Quilter which would make me flinch as to what you might do with a square
of scrap cordouroy. The suspense.
I'm almost tingly.
-Wayd Wolf, known variously as Court Jester of the Breakdance, Line Dances
With Wolves, or Shirley Whose Fingernails Scratch Razor Stubble...
P.S.
I can skip into the 43rd dimension of nonsense any time, so how am I
taking myself too seriously?
Brian Henderson
>cep...@directvinternet.com (Brian Henderson) wrote in
><76r2mu0lu6jkijh2o...@4ax.com>:
>
>> And I think you can get a blow job in the south just fine.
>
>But ya can't sell vibrators.
They sure don't seem to have a problem getting them.
DishRoom1
Blackberry wrote --
Brian wrote --
>>>Last time I saw ALL of it at the same con was at ConFurence 5 or 6.
>>
>>You do realize that such events are what we call "in the past", right?
>
>Something that happened 2 minutes ago is "in the past" too.
>
>>>Last time I saw people freaking the mundanes was last year at SDCC.
>>
>>Comics fans like to freak mundanes, therefore furry fans have sex in public?
>
>>Elaborate.
>
>Actually, it was furs that were doing it. Furs do attend comic
>conventions, you know.
You're not being elborative enough. You sure it was furry fans?
Gabriel Gentile
> Something like, Rann the Avenging Spirit of Gynotopia
Gynotopia, where all good yeast infections go when they die.
Blackberry
>
>On 19 Aug 2002 08:38:54 -0700, Blackberry
><le...@NOanthrobunnySPAM.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:43:01 -0700, Brian wrote:
>>>
>>>Last time I saw ALL of it at the same con was at ConFurence 5 or 6.
>>
>>You do realize that such events are what we call "in the past", right?
>
>Something that happened 2 minutes ago is "in the past" too.
Yes, but there seems to have been quite a change in the nature of the fandom
since Mark Merlino's sex party conventions.
>>>Last time I saw people freaking the mundanes was last year at SDCC.
>>
>>Comics fans like to freak mundanes, therefore furry fans have sex in public?
>>Elaborate.
>
>Actually, it was furs that were doing it. Furs do attend comic
>conventions, you know.
Okay. What were they doing?
Blackberry
So, as long as you can get something somewhere, even if it's illegal, it's
morally acceptable?
Rann Aridorn
>> Something like, Rann the Avenging Spirit of Gynotopia
>
> Gynotopia, where all good yeast infections go when they die.
Riiight. Whatever. It's rare misogynists that are actually able to
insult women who aren't women in real life.
Felyne32k
ch...@attbi.com says...
> dandan...@aol.com.net.org (Daniel Cougar) was so distracted by the
> Puma Twins doing a poledance that they wrote:
>
> >>And besides, doesn't anime/manga have its own X or NC-17 rated stuff,
> >>too? Like Echhi?
> >
> > Lemon is the usual name for it, based on the original "naughty" anime
> > series "Creamy Lemon."
>
> "Lemon" is usually reserved for fanfiction. Pics, movies, etc. are
> usually called hentai, which is literally "pervert" in Japanese.
>
etymologies; I talked to a half-Japanese friend of mine, who said that
it literally meant "hermaphrodite" (which is part, I guess, of why you
see a lot of them in the genre) and is colloquially used as just
"wierdo" or something similar. She did say that she'd never seen it used
in a sexual connotation until she ran into the anime fandom.
--
-Felyne32k, supposed "English Major"
Go Bears!
Brian Henderson
<le...@NOanthrobunnySPAM.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:10:57 -0700, Brian wrote:
>>Oh, it might be on the books as illegal, but how many people get
>>arrested for it? Blue laws like that exist, but aren't taken
>>seriously. And I think you can get a blow job in the south just fine.
>
>So, as long as you can get something somewhere, even if it's illegal, it's
>morally acceptable?
You can pass a law that says you can't carry a duck on Sunday, doesn't
mean anyone is bound to follow it. In fact, if it's found that the
majority of people disregard a law without harm to themselves or
others, then the law is widely seen as being non-existent.
Brian Henderson
<le...@NOanthrobunnySPAM.com> wrote:
>Yes, but there seems to have been quite a change in the nature of the fandom
>since Mark Merlino's sex party conventions.
In the nature of the conventions, absolutely. They don't exist for
gay preteen sex anymore.
Rann Aridorn
>> "Lemon" is usually reserved for fanfiction. Pics, movies, etc. are
>> usually called hentai, which is literally "pervert" in Japanese.
>>
> Does it? I think that that's one of those silly fandom-myth-
> etymologies; I talked to a half-Japanese friend of mine, who said that
> it literally meant "hermaphrodite" (which is part, I guess, of why you
> see a lot of them in the genre) and is colloquially used as just
> "wierdo" or something similar. She did say that she'd never seen it used
> in a sexual connotation until she ran into the anime fandom.
My English-Japanese dictionary defines hentai as "Abnormality".
"Perversion" could just as easily be a word for the same; when not applied
sexually, perverted means something has been twisted, IE, made abnormal.
I have no clue why your friend would have thought it meant hermaphrodite,
other than that they saw the word "hentai" on a page they were looking at
with pics of herms. n.n;
Felyne32k
ch...@attbi.com says...
> Fely...@softhome.net (Felyne32k) was so distracted by the Puma Twins
> doing a poledance that they wrote:
>
> >> "Lemon" is usually reserved for fanfiction. Pics, movies, etc. are
> >> usually called hentai, which is literally "pervert" in Japanese.
> >>
> > Does it? I think that that's one of those silly fandom-myth-
> > etymologies; I talked to a half-Japanese friend of mine, who said that
> > it literally meant "hermaphrodite" (which is part, I guess, of why you
> > see a lot of them in the genre) and is colloquially used as just
> > "wierdo" or something similar. She did say that she'd never seen it used
> > in a sexual connotation until she ran into the anime fandom.
>
> My English-Japanese dictionary defines hentai as "Abnormality".
> "Perversion" could just as easily be a word for the same; when not applied
> sexually, perverted means something has been twisted, IE, made abnormal.
> I have no clue why your friend would have thought it meant hermaphrodite,
> other than that they saw the word "hentai" on a page they were looking at
> with pics of herms. n.n;
>
--
-Felyne32k, supposed "English Major"
and appropriately sleep-deprived.
Blackberry
>
>>So, as long as you can get something somewhere, even if it's illegal, it's
>>morally acceptable?
>
>You can pass a law that says you can't carry a duck on Sunday, doesn't
>mean anyone is bound to follow it. In fact, if it's found that the
>majority of people disregard a law without harm to themselves or
>others, then the law is widely seen as being non-existent.
I'm just not sure where you're going with this. How do you figure out who is
the arbiter of what is "good" and "bad"? Local law? Some religion? You?
Brian Henderson
<le...@NOanthrobunnySPAM.com> wrote:
>I'm just not sure where you're going with this. How do you figure out who is
>the arbiter of what is "good" and "bad"? Local law? Some religion? You?
The only arbiter of what is legal and illegal (good and bad, right and
wrong are subjective and personal definitions) are the local people
and their government.
Felyne32k
says...
> Yet, as has been shown by myriad cases involving internet sites --
> "local" is becoming anyplace one can find a culture who would object...
>
> Cases such as Germany (or was it France) objecting to certain
> articles put up on eBay; the very old case of some Tennessee (or
Both. France had some issues with one thing or another, and Germany has
laws regarding WWII memorabilia. Even parts of www.castlewolfenstein.com
are illegal in Germany.
o.o