"WHO ARE WE THE TURKS" Your nemesis.
Turcoman
Are you so ashamed of your Greek/Armenian background
that you pose as a Turk to spill your poison? Do you think that
your disguise as a 'Turk' somehow lends credibility to your
slanderous postings.
Come on you Greek/Armenian coward. Face us as who
you are, or are you so scared that people who read your
nonsense will simply skip your postings when they guess
that you are just another loser Greek/Armenian?
Your tactics are so obvious to us Turks.
Remember Izmir - and never forget it - we can look after
our own and we definitely know how to take good care
of our enemies.
You want to fight small, undeclared wars with us dont you.
But you forget what happens when the Turks patience runs out...
The PKK scum which you and your cowardly ilk use today,
to spread terror in Turkey, are just like the Armenian terrorists
and the Greek army in 1922, and the Greek terrorists in Cyprus '57 - '74.
Remember what happened to them? You think things are any different
today? I assure you they are not. The PKK is next. Then its Greece' turn.
After the scum PKKs remains are flushed out and the Greek trash is rounded
up and burned on the slag heaps, we will meet and celebrate the cleansing of
our lands, in the four corners of Cyprus.
Are you ready, coward?
KEMAL1922 wrote in message <19990320223244...@ng108.aol.com>...
>The Turks! Who are we? Where do we come from? What do we have to show in
>hundreds of years of History? Those kind of questions are being asked by the
>world at large but also but a few of us who want to think for themselves and to
>know where their roots are.
>OK. Here it is.
>We, the Ottoman Turks, first appeared in the 13th century. We proceeded to
>subjugate Christian Balkan states and in 1453… the ultimate victory: we
>captured Constantinople, the Queen of cities. In our height the Ottoman Empire
>stretched from the Persian Gulf to Western Algeria. But, the various ethnic
>groups living under our domain revolted and between the 19th and 20th centuries
>we were gradually reduced to our present borders.
>But, what did we accomplish during the hundreds of years of ultimate and
>absolute rule over some of the greatest civilizations known to man? What did
>we learn?
>We learned nothing! We accomplished nothing! Nothing worthwhile that is.
>During the 500 years we were in power we perpetrated some of the most heinous
>crimes humanity has ever seen. We denied the various ethnic and religious
>groups the right to speak, teach and communicate in their language. We denied
>them the right to freely practice their religion. We coerced a great number of
>them to convert to Islam under fear of death. We stole their children for our
>elite corps, the Jannisaries. We wrote our history in blood and torture.
>The 20th Century however was the apotheosis of our barbarism. Between 1914 and
>1922 we must have killed about 3,000,000 Christian subjects within our borders
>simply because they existed. We forced the remainder to become refugees.
>Smyrni, Armenia, Pontus all cry for justice. And they will get it. Five
>hundred years of crimes cannot and will not go unpunished. I fear for Turkey.
>My heart bleeds for Turkey. But justice must be served.
>
>
>Ne Mutlu Turkum Diyene ,Benim olumumden sonra bu seref gecersizdir
Jason
I don't know who you are and I don't really sympathize with the idea of
having to pay debts of previous generations. Can you imagine what the
German nation would have to pay for the atrocities of the SS, or your nation
for the atrocities against the Greeks or the Armenians? It would be very
unjust for me to slit your throat because your father killed a bunch of
civilians in Cyprus, only because they happened to be living in Kyrenia.
However, it would be more than fair to consider the things you say. Be
aware that there is a 78% population of Greeks in the isle you mention that
you will clean up and the total percentage of the Christian elements is 82%,
including the Armenians, the Maronites and the Frankish/Italian Latins.
What do you plan to do to them? Throw them in the sea, or maybe just execute
them and throw their dead bodies around like it happened in 74? (Here there
is evidence after the body of Mr. Kasapis who was an American citizen of
Greek origin, minor in age. He was executed by thugs and his bones were
found spread in the fields, see reports by the US govt.) After all
"Kemal1922: may have a point. What did the Turkish nation have to offer to
mankind? Coffee? This is a question you have to answer to yourself before
starting to act like a young Turk, no pun intended. Consider what you're
saying. You accuse essentially all your neighbors for doing you injustice
but that gives a bigger picture of you. If you don't get along with your
neighbors (evidently none of them) you should start looking at yourselves
rather than declaring that you will clean up Cyprus and Greece. You know
that will be a very heavy task for your armed forces anyway. Cleaning up
countries .... not even the most efficient war machine ever, that of Hitler
(your x-ally by the way .... whom you betrayed the last days of the war) did
not make it. Will you come to Cyprus and kill me because I happen to be
Greek? Actually I know you intend to do it, but to say it so openly is
another thing. You publicly admit that your plans are to eliminate us. I
wish you had the nerve and the courage to send this same message to heads of
states around the civilized world. Tell them that these are the plans you
have there in Turkey. Go ahead, at least be a man about it yourself and
assume the responsibility of your own declarations and objectives.
Jason
Turcoman <Turc...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:7d2suk$isk$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
> >subjugate Christian Balkan states and in 1453. the ultimate victory: we
Turcoman
Jason wrote in message <6y9J2.59648$YV6....@news2.giganews.com>...
>Hey Turkoman:
>
>I don't know who you are and I don't really sympathize with the idea of
>having to pay debts of previous generations. Can you imagine what the
>German nation would have to pay for the atrocities of the SS, or your nation
>for the atrocities against the Greeks or the Armenians? It would be very
>unjust for me to slit your throat because your father killed a bunch of
>civilians in Cyprus, only because they happened to be living in Kyrenia.
Your father and his generation were slitting throats of Turkish hospital
patients, unarmed civilians, children and women for decades. They got to
the point that they thought it was all over for the Turks, ENOSIS time '74 -
they miscalculated the resolve of the Turk, didnt they.
The women killers Clerides and Sampson will also pay their debts to the
Turkish martyrs of Cyprus.
Your compatriots forced out 67, 000 Turkish Cypriots between 1957 and 74
there was no war, no Turkish or Turkish Cypriot military capable of defending
the Turkish people. Do you know how many that 67,000 is? Nearly 3/5 of the
whole Turkish population of the time.
The Armenians, dont make me laugh. Todays PKK existed in Turkey
in '22 in its Armenian form. They did the same things the PKK are
doing now. They miscalculated too, as have the PKK who will be wiped
out to the last within the year. Good riddance to both.
>However, it would be more than fair to consider the things you say. Be
>aware that there is a 78% population of Greeks in the isle you mention that
>you will clean up and the total percentage of the Christian elements is 82%,
>including the Armenians, the Maronites and the Frankish/Italian Latins.
>What do you plan to do to them? Throw them in the sea, or maybe just execute
>them and throw their dead bodies around like it happened in 74?
Whatever it takes to secure peace for the comming generations.
>(Here there is evidence after the body of Mr. Kasapis who was an American
citizen of
>Greek origin, minor in age. He was executed by thugs and his bones were
>found spread in the fields, see reports by the US govt.)
Yes. Killed by the Greek Junta, along with hundreds of other Makarios
supporters. Now your administration claims they are "missing" even
though dozens have been found buried in unmarked graves on your
own side (South-Greek-Cyprus). Ask Clerides, he knows where their
bodies were hidden.
>After all "Kemal1922: may have a point. What did the Turkish nation have to
offer to
>mankind? Coffee? This is a question you have to answer to yourself before
>starting to act like a young Turk, no pun intended. Consider what you're
>saying.
And who do you attribute todays civilisation to? The Greeks!?
The golden age of Greece was buried under tons of earth for
a thousand years. When Europe was still living in the dark ages
the Turks were recording new discoveries and translating the old
into Latin, for the benefit of the Europeans. Even the works of the
Greek masters didnt pass through you to Europe, it went via the
Turks. What was Greece doing in the meantime - tending sheep.
>You accuse essentially all your neighbors for doing you injustice
>but that gives a bigger picture of you. If you don't get along with your
>neighbors (evidently none of them) you should start looking at yourselves
>rather than declaring that you will clean up Cyprus and Greece.
The Greeks are the typical 'neighbour from hell'. Leave them unchallenged
and they will steal your milk, move the garden fences to steal your land,
park in your garage or driveway and abuse your family. They only come
to their senses when they get a good smack. We're good at that.
>You know that will be a very heavy task for your armed forces anyway.
>Cleaning up countries .... not even the most efficient war machine ever, that
of Hitler
>(your x-ally by the way .... whom you betrayed the last days of the war) did
>not make it.
Is that why the Greeks keep spoiling for a fight,
relying on you neighbours to defend you?
>Will you come to Cyprus and kill me because I happen to be
>Greek?
Not unless my people are threatened.
>Actually I know you intend to do it, but to say it so openly is
>another thing. You publicly admit that your plans are to eliminate us.
Syria saw sense it not pushing their luck too far with the Turk.
Greece and South-Greek-Cyprus will too.
>I wish you had the nerve and the courage to send this same message to heads of
>states around the civilized world. Tell them that these are the plans you
>have there in Turkey. Go ahead, at least be a man about it yourself and
>assume the responsibility of your own declarations and objectives.
>Jason
Your governments went too far with Ocalan affair.
Today they train terrorists on Greek territory.
They covet the Turks land and cities.
They promote the planned death and destruction of the Turk.
So...
"Men, in a word, must necessarily be controlled either by
a power within them, or a power without them, either by the
word of God, or by the strong arm of man; either by the bible
or by the bayonet."
Robert Charles Winthrop
(1809-1894), an American legislator.
Jason
to deal with in Cyprus. I guess that by now most of the Turks are like you.
My dad never held a rifle and had many Turkish friends by the way. There
were families of Turks that were friends with us. I have the impression
that your mind is not functioning well. I mentioned the previous
generations just to show you that it is unfair to kill somebody because his
father or grandfather killed someone else's uncle etc. You took it
literally, only to prove your reasoning a fallacy.
The Kasapis case is one that president Clinton initiated and is already
resolved. The bones were found after the gathering of information from
Turkish Cypriot civilians. Don't accuse the Greek Junta. They did nothing
in comparison to the atrocities the "Mehmetcik" did. You are so unaware of
what you are saying that I really wonder how you had enough education to
keep a up a conversation on a language foreign to yours. In any case, I
have no intention to give you any more pleasure in throwing any more of your
lame, amusing material in the Greek group. Your language is far below the
level I can tolerate anyway.
, ...You see the way I see things about you is that people like you
constitute what Turkey stands for internationally. If I wish you change your
way of thinking to be a bit more civilized, then what is there going to be
left of Turkey? If Turkey has no enemy what would it stand for as a nation?
What does Turkey have to offer besides bullying everyone around and giving
military bases to the Americans? Probably not much. You need to be the way
you are. I see that the end of Turkey will be called civilization. Maybe
an affiliation with the EU with the establishment of international treaties
on human rights would be the first step toward your country's
disintegration. Just take a walk down in Kurdistan and check what your army
does to the Kurds.
Have a good day Turkoman (now don't go harass a non-Turk to do that!)
Jason
Jason
>
> yeAH , I WILL KILL THE LOT OF YOU , JUST DARE TO STEP INTO TURKEY AS
> ENEMY.
> AND THAT INCLUDES NORTHERN CYPRUS TOO, AND YOU WILL GET IT BETWEEN YOR
> EYES.
> WE FUCKED YOU EVERY TIME YOU TRIED TO STEP OUT OF LINE , AND WE WILL
> FUCK YOU AGAIN, JUST TRY IT INSTEAD OF PUSHING PKK TO THE FRONT, COME
> AND GET IT
> FUCKING GREEK SHIT HEADS . JUST TRY IT AND YOU WILL SEE YOUR HEADS
> HANGING
> FROM FLAGPOLES. FUCK OFF NOW , GO AND PLAY WITHYOURSELF.
>
>
>
>
Jason
Jason
you when you join. What you just showed is exactly what Europe tries to be!
You constitute the European ideals! You're the next members sure thing.
dctest Anonymous Remailer <nob...@dragoncon.net> wrote in message
news:1999032201...@inferno.serversystems.net...
> On Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:55:09 -0600 "Jason" <c...@alumni.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> But you forget what happens when the Turks patience runs out...
> >>
> >> The PKK scum which you and your cowardly ilk use today,
> >> to spread terror in Turkey,
>
>
Sav
Jason wrote in message ...
>How absolutely impressive! Is that the way you talk in your country?
>
>
>>
Kritifile
area. Why are Turks white? The answer is simple. At one time they were
Greeks, forcibly converted to Islam in the same way as the other
muslim Balkan countries and muslim minorities in Christian countries.
So, when Turk attacks Greek, he is attacking a long forgotten brother.
The Mongols and Arabs went. They were assimilated by the original
population, the original GREEK population, but the visciousness and
intolerance caused the people to become muslim. Now, the ancient (and
slightly more recent) past is forgotten. As it was forgotten in
Albania and Bosnia. The people became muslim because they did not want
to be wiped out. In other words, they were not as strong as those
called Greeks today.
The past is lost in Turkey, except for those legacies of the Hellenic
world that tourists come to see. Turks do not have the strength to
control themselves from within, and they are not Christian, therefore
are not guided by the Bible. All that they have is the viscious,
warlike religion of Islam, that encouraged them to form the ottoman
empire, that encourages them to regain that empire today. They care
not at all for their victims. Here I am not going back to the days of
the ottomans. I am talking about the "Modern Turkish State" How many
millions have you slaughtered this century, Turks? Armenians,
Cypriots, Greeks, Kurds...where does the list end?
Turks, there is no need to defend yourselves. Your position is
indefensible. You crow because you have the support of America and
Israel at the moment. What will you do if you lose that support.
Turn your eyes away from Greece. You caused misery for 400 years, but
you never defeated the spirit of the Greek people. Some parts of
Greece you simply...never defeated. Every Greek village remembers its
martyrs, those who fought you when you were in the greatest position
of strength. Do you think that Greece would give in to you now?
Anna
Turcoman wrote in message <7d5oef$hvb$3...@mendelevium.btinternet.com>...
Outshined
Kritifile <law...@btinternet.com> wrote in article
<7d923l$2lo$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>...
> Who are the Turks? Not the mongolian raiders who first came to the
> area. Why are Turks white? The answer is simple. At one time they were
> Greeks, forcibly converted to Islam in the same way as the other
> muslim Balkan countries and muslim minorities in Christian countries.
> So, when Turk attacks Greek, he is attacking a long forgotten brother.
This could well be true. But then by the same reckoning, when Greek
provides training, arms and financial support to a terrorist organisation
aiming to take Turkish land, he is also attacking his long lost brother.
> The past is lost in Turkey, except for those legacies of the Hellenic
> world that tourists come to see. Turks do not have the strength to
> control themselves from within, and they are not Christian, therefore
> are not guided by the Bible. All that they have is the viscious,
> warlike religion of Islam, that encouraged them to form the ottoman
> empire, that encourages them to regain that empire today.
If you posted this bullshit on an Islamic NG, you'd stand a good chance of
becoming the next Salman Rushdie. Good luck.
>They care not at all for their victims. Here I am not going back to the
days of
> the ottomans. I am talking about the "Modern Turkish State" How many
> millions have you slaughtered this century, Turks?
What, you'd like us to have a guess?
>Armenians,
Sorry, I always thought it was the OTTOMAN EMPIRE who were accused of the
Armenian genocides. Have the decency to get your facts straight.
>Cypriots
Would they be the same Cypriots who made butchering Turks a sport?
>Greeks
Again, are these Greeks you're crying over the same Greeks who committed
war crimes en masse, during their invasion of Turkey shortly after World
War 1?
>Kurds
Get it into your head that our fight has never been with "Kurds" but with
the PKK terrorist organisation. That's the same PKK who kill babies,
teachers, railway workers, civil servants, who leave bombs in crowded
public places, bombs that ruin the lives of people who's only crime was to
be caught shopping for groceries in the wrong mall at the wrong time, the
same PKK who fuck up the lives of impressionable European children via the
mass production and sale of Heroin. Ie, NOT VERY NICE PEOPLE.
>where does the list end?
We've killed a few Chickens, cows and sheep over the years too. I'm
suprised you didn't add those to your list. Flies too, Turks have killed
plenty of flies. And wasps.
> Turks, there is no need to defend yourselves. Your position is
> indefensible.
Let me translate. What Anna is saying here is "don't reply with the truth
or I'll cry".
You crow because you have the support of America and
> Israel at the moment.
For your information, we also have the support of Bulgaria and Romania.
HEAR US ROAR.
Incidentally, ten years ago we were on the brink of war with the
Bulgarians, now we consider them an ally. Funny how things turn out, no?
Friendships can be forged even between nations who once hated one another.
Let us put this hatemonging behind us and start afresh. Hey, as the song
said... "WAR.... WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR"? Ahem. Let's work toward the day when
Greeks and Turks can truly call one another "friends".*
>What will you do if you lose that support.
Are we talking about the US and Israeli support or the Bulgarian and
Romanian support?
> Turn your eyes away from Greece.
Wasn't looking in your direction in the first place. You must be paranoid,
my advice is that you stay off the pot for a while.
You caused misery for 400 years, but
> you never defeated the spirit of the Greek people.
True. They were assholes then and they're assholes now. Well, the hatebombs
like you were/are, anyhow...
Some parts of
> Greece you simply...never defeated.
We never got round to fucking any of you up the ass, if that's what you're
hinting at...
Every Greek village remembers its
> martyrs, those who fought you when you were in the greatest position
> of strength. Do you think that Greece would give in to you now?
What are you saying? Do I think that Greece will stop it's finacial aid and
military support to the PKK? No, I don't think they will. Will Greece stop
blocking EU aid packages to Turkey? Can't see it happening, to be honest.
Will Greece ever treat Turkey with the respect that it should show to a
fellow NATO member and, let's not forget, supposed ALLY!?!??!?!?!?!!?
I'll not be holding my breath...
* - Just after Goldilocks makes peace with the Three Bears...
Turcoman
to be oppressed by the Greeks, or letting the PKK
terrorise and devastate your society, I'll take
"barbarism" anytime.
If the Cyprus Greeks were honest to themselves,
they would realise that nothing other than war is
going to change the existing borders between, the
Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and the
Republic of South Greek Cyprus.
The Turkish Cypriot are happy with their lot,
its you expansionist Greeks who keep stirring
up trouble for everyone.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre '74, that was before - Post '74 is forevermore
North is North and South is South and never the twain shall meet.
Jason wrote in message ...
Turcoman
You took my bait and now, at last, you grace
my monitor with your poison. I am honoured.
Truly my cup runneth over...
But could you love a Turk, the humble son of
heroes, warriors & poets?
Lobby for Cyprus
You take on three typically hostile mainland Turks with one email. You are
a real hero.
What's the matter boys. Is one woman giving you so much trouble?
Lobby for Cyprus
http://www.lobbyforcyprus.org/
a non party political organisation with the aim of reuniting Cyprus
Outshined
Lobby for Cyprus <ad...@lobbyforcyprus.org> wrote in article
<7dbccd$45r$1...@newnews.global.net.uk>...
> Bravo Kritifile.
>
> You take on three typically hostile mainland Turks with one email. You
are
> a real hero.
>
> What's the matter boys. Is one woman giving you so much trouble?
Looks like the concept of equal opportunities hasn't yet reached out as far
as Cyprus...
Greek Cypriot women, REVOLT! Shatter the chains that bind you to your
kitchens!
Kritifile
Outshined wrote in message <01be762a$70fd3920$6c5dac3e@dog42>...
>
>
>Lobby for Cyprus <ad...@lobbyforcyprus.org> wrote in article
><7dbccd$45r$1...@newnews.global.net.uk>...
>> Bravo Kritifile.
>>
>> You take on three typically hostile mainland Turks with one email.
You
>are
>> a real hero.
>>
>> What's the matter boys. Is one woman giving you so much trouble?
>
>Looks like the concept of equal opportunities hasn't yet reached out
as far
>as Cyprus...
>
Oh it has, it has.
>Greek Cypriot women, REVOLT! Shatter the chains that bind you to your
>kitchens!
>
Turkish women in Cyprus, chain your husbands to the kitchens! It will
keep them out of trouble.
Turkish Cypriot women, join your Greek Cypriot sisters. Women have the
ultimate power over men.
Anna
Nevzat Akdemir
Kritifile wrote:
> Outshined wrote in message <01be762a$70fd3920$6c5dac3e@dog42>...
> >
> >
> >Lobby for Cyprus <ad...@lobbyforcyprus.org> wrote in article
> ><7dbccd$45r$1...@newnews.global.net.uk>...
> >> Bravo Kritifile.
> >>
> >> You take on three typically hostile mainland Turks with one email.
> You
> >are
> >> a real hero.
> >>
> >> What's the matter boys. Is one woman giving you so much trouble?
> >
> >Looks like the concept of equal opportunities hasn't yet reached out
> as far
> >as Cyprus...
> >
>
> Oh it has, it has.
>
> >Greek Cypriot women, REVOLT! Shatter the chains that bind you to your
> >kitchens!
> >
>
> Turkish women in Cyprus, chain your husbands to the kitchens! It will
> keep them out of trouble.
Turkish women in Cyprus, Kritifile Anna is a loony who enjoys
chopping off penises. Blood turns her on.
>
>
> Turkish Cypriot women, join your Greek Cypriot sisters. Women have the
> ultimate power over men.
>
> Anna
Actually what she wants to say is Greeks are great. (usual crap.)
nevzat
Turcoman
She loves me * She loves me not * She loves me *...
>Turkish women in Cyprus, chain your husbands to the kitchens! It will
>keep them out of trouble.
>
Kritifile
Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36F946CC...@bellsouth.net>...
>
>
>Kritifile wrote:
>
>> Outshined wrote in message <01be762a$70fd3920$6c5dac3e@dog42>...
>> >
>> >
>> >Lobby for Cyprus <ad...@lobbyforcyprus.org> wrote in article
>> ><7dbccd$45r$1...@newnews.global.net.uk>...
>> >> Bravo Kritifile.
>> >>
>> >> You take on three typically hostile mainland Turks with one
email.
>> You
>> >are
>> >> a real hero.
>> >>
>> >> What's the matter boys. Is one woman giving you so much
trouble?
>> >
>> >Looks like the concept of equal opportunities hasn't yet reached
out
>> as far
>> >as Cyprus...
>> >
>>
>> Oh it has, it has.
>>
>> >Greek Cypriot women, REVOLT! Shatter the chains that bind you to
your
>> >kitchens!
>> >
>>
will
>> keep them out of trouble.
>
>chopping off penises. Blood turns her on.
>
Typical bullshit. Why are you so obsessed with this subject, Nevzat? I
haven't mentioned it, you keep doing so. It is because I hate
bloodshed that I post what I do.
>>
>>
>> Turkish Cypriot women, join your Greek Cypriot sisters. Women have
the
>> ultimate power over men.
>>
>> Anna
>
>Actually what she wants to say is Greeks are great. (usual crap.)
>
I wouldn't describe the only culture I feel completely at home in as
crap. How many times do I have to say that I have no prejudice against
any individual because of their race. One thing that might come as a
surprise, as individuals, some Greeks are very nasty people. Same as
any other race. You can't generalize to that extent. In the same way
as I am convinced that there must be some decent Turks somewhere. They
just don't post in the Greek newsgroups, same as I don't usually post
in the Turkish ones unless I am replying to something that someone has
already put Turkish NG headers on. In that case, why should I remove
them? I'm not a censor.
Anna
>nevzat
>
>
>
Kritifile
Turcoman wrote in message <7dbisk$kk6$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>...
>Give a woman an inch and she thinks she's a ruler.
>
>She loves me * She loves me not * She loves me *...
>
That shows your opinion of women...not that of anyone living in 1999.
>
>
>>Turkish women in Cyprus, chain your husbands to the kitchens! It
will
>>keep them out of trouble.
>>
>>Turkish Cypriot women, join your Greek Cypriot sisters. Women have
the
>>ultimate power over men.
>>
>>Anna
>>
>>
>
>
Read a little Ancient Greek history and you might understand what I'm
getting at.
Anna
Nevzat Akdemir
Kritifile wrote:
> Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36F946CC...@bellsouth.net>...
> >
> >
> >Kritifile wrote:
> >
> >> Outshined wrote in message <01be762a$70fd3920$6c5dac3e@dog42>...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Lobby for Cyprus <ad...@lobbyforcyprus.org> wrote in article
> >> ><7dbccd$45r$1...@newnews.global.net.uk>...
> >> >> Bravo Kritifile.
> >> >>
> >> >> You take on three typically hostile mainland Turks with one
> email.
> >> You
> >> >are
> >> >> a real hero.
> >> >>
> >> >> What's the matter boys. Is one woman giving you so much
> trouble?
> >> >
> >> >Looks like the concept of equal opportunities hasn't yet reached
> out
> >> as far
> >> >as Cyprus...
> >> >
> >>
> >> Oh it has, it has.
> >>
> >> >Greek Cypriot women, REVOLT! Shatter the chains that bind you to
> your
> >> >kitchens!
> >> >
> >>
> >> Turkish women in Cyprus, chain your husbands to the kitchens! It
> will
> >> keep them out of trouble.
> >
> >Turkish women in Cyprus, Kritifile Anna is a loony who enjoys
> >chopping off penises. Blood turns her on.
> >
>
> Typical bullshit. Why are you so obsessed with this subject, Nevzat?
Who? Me?
> I
> haven't mentioned it, you keep doing so. It is because I hate
> bloodshed that I post what I do.
What you do? You invented a new bloodless, surgery technic?
Laser perhaps? That makes you a high-tech penis chopper, did
you know that?
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> Turkish Cypriot women, join your Greek Cypriot sisters. Women have
> the
> >> ultimate power over men.
> >>
> >> Anna
> >
> >Actually what she wants to say is Greeks are great. (usual crap.)
> >
>
> I wouldn't describe the only culture I feel completely at home in as
> crap. How many times do I have to say that I have no prejudice against
> any individual because of their race.
A complete bull so far. But I'll read the rest.
> One thing that might come as a
> surprise, as individuals, some Greeks are very nasty people. Same as
> any other race. You can't generalize to that extent. In the same way
> as I am convinced that there must be some decent Turks somewhere.
That's right. Some Greeks (a few of them are nasty) and some Turks
a few of them are decent) and you are not racist. There you go. You
ain't racist, how can you be a racist if you say something like this!
> They
> just don't post in the Greek newsgroups, same as I don't usually post
> in the Turkish ones unless I am replying to something that someone has
> already put Turkish NG headers on. In that case, why should I remove
> them? I'm not a censor.
>
> Anna
That is right. You are not a censor. You are a sensor. You feel the
temprature for the fashists in the Greek Government. How much do
they pay you?
>
>
> >nevzat
> >
> >
> >
Turcoman
Albe Guyon
Anna
I hope this doesn't mean its over between us.
How will I have the motivation to come to the NGs
if your bile isn't there to stick to my monitor?
What will replace your stinging words to my race?
Who will bring Hellenese propaganda to my life?
Where will my heart be without a Hellene cat to claw it?
Who will respond when I say Clerides is a transvestite?
Woe is me, woe, woe, woe...
Kritifile wrote in message <7dd5hk$8f0$3...@plutonium.btinternet.com>...
>
>Turcoman wrote in message <7dbisk$kk6$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>...
>>Give a woman an inch and she thinks she's a ruler.
>>
>>She loves me * She loves me not * She loves me *...
>>
>
>That shows your opinion of women...not that of anyone living in 1999.
>
>>
>>
>>>Turkish women in Cyprus, chain your husbands to the kitchens! It
>will
>>>keep them out of trouble.
>>>
>>>Turkish Cypriot women, join your Greek Cypriot sisters. Women have
>the
>>>ultimate power over men.
>>>
>>>Anna
>>>
>>>
>
dakar
would not be any Greek culture or language left in the world today. It took
the Spanish only 100 years to assimilate the entire South America. If Greece
had been invaded by the Spanish for 400 years, you poor souls would all be
catholics and speaking Spanish today. Instead, the Ottomans just collected
their tax and left you alone. So stop being a cry baby.....
Orhan
Kritifile wrote in message <7d923l$2lo$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>...
Kritifile
Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36FA2C0F...@bellsouth.net>...
>> will
>> >> keep them out of trouble.
>> >
>> >chopping off penises. Blood turns her on.
>> >
>>
>> Typical bullshit. Why are you so obsessed with this subject,
Nevzat?
>
>Who? Me?
>
Who else?
>> I
>> haven't mentioned it, you keep doing so. It is because I hate
>> bloodshed that I post what I do.
>
>What you do? You invented a new bloodless, surgery technic?
>Laser perhaps? That makes you a high-tech penis chopper, did
>you know that?
>
You mentioned it again! Something on your mind, Nevzat? :)
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Turkish Cypriot women, join your Greek Cypriot sisters. Women
have
>> the
>> >> ultimate power over men.
>> >>
>> >> Anna
>> >
>> >Actually what she wants to say is Greeks are great. (usual crap.)
>> >
>>
>> I wouldn't describe the only culture I feel completely at home in
as
>> crap. How many times do I have to say that I have no prejudice
against
>> any individual because of their race.
>
>A complete bull so far. But I'll read the rest.
>
Not bull, truth.
>> One thing that might come as a
>> surprise, as individuals, some Greeks are very nasty people. Same
as
>> any other race. You can't generalize to that extent. In the same
way
>> as I am convinced that there must be some decent Turks somewhere.
>
>That's right. Some Greeks (a few of them are nasty) and some Turks
>a few of them are decent) and you are not racist. There you go. You
>ain't racist, how can you be a racist if you say something like this!
>
I didn't say that a few Turks are decent. I said that you can't
generalize about any race. Individuals are just that. I have a very
small experience of Turks, very large experience of Greeks. So I can
give my opinions on Greeks, not Turks. I would only consider making
broad generalizations on a people I knew personally. I'm not talking
politics, I'm talking people.
>> They
>> just don't post in the Greek newsgroups, same as I don't usually
post
>> in the Turkish ones unless I am replying to something that someone
has
>> already put Turkish NG headers on. In that case, why should I
remove
>> them? I'm not a censor.
>>
>> Anna
>
>That is right. You are not a censor. You are a sensor. You feel the
>temprature for the fashists in the Greek Government. How much do
>they pay you?
>
That's a load of bull, and you know it. BTW what type of sensor do you
think I am, mechanical, electro-mechanical, electronic...?
Anna
>>
>>
>> >nevzat
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
Nevzat Akdemir
Nevzat Akdemir
Kritifile wrote:
You?
>
>
> >> I
> >> haven't mentioned it, you keep doing so. It is because I hate
> >> bloodshed that I post what I do.
> >
> >What you do? You invented a new bloodless, surgery technic?
> >Laser perhaps? That makes you a high-tech penis chopper, did
> >you know that?
> >
>
> You mentioned it again! Something on your mind, Nevzat? :)
You wanna little Turkish baby?
>
> >>
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Turkish Cypriot women, join your Greek Cypriot sisters. Women
> have
> >> the
> >> >> ultimate power over men.
> >> >>
> >> >> Anna
> >> >
> >> >Actually what she wants to say is Greeks are great. (usual crap.)
> >> >
> >>
> >> I wouldn't describe the only culture I feel completely at home in
> as
> >> crap. How many times do I have to say that I have no prejudice
> against
> >> any individual because of their race.
> >
> >A complete bull so far. But I'll read the rest.
> >
>
> Not bull, truth.
A total bull.
>
>
> >> One thing that might come as a
> >> surprise, as individuals, some Greeks are very nasty people. Same
> as
> >> any other race. You can't generalize to that extent. In the same
> way
> >> as I am convinced that there must be some decent Turks somewhere.
> >
> >That's right. Some Greeks (a few of them are nasty) and some Turks
> >a few of them are decent) and you are not racist. There you go. You
> >ain't racist, how can you be a racist if you say something like this!
> >
>
> I didn't say that a few Turks are decent.
Yes. You did.
> I said that you can't
> generalize about any race.
No. You can generalize about Turks.
> Individuals are just that.
It is only you and few others.
> I have a very
> small experience of Turks, very large experience of Greeks. So I can
> give my opinions on Greeks, not Turks.
So you can stop your bull.
> I would only consider making
> broad generalizations on a people I knew personally. I'm not talking
> politics, I'm talking people.
You can't talk about anything. You can only push Greek propaganda.
>
>
> >> They
> >> just don't post in the Greek newsgroups, same as I don't usually
> post
> >> in the Turkish ones unless I am replying to something that someone
> has
> >> already put Turkish NG headers on. In that case, why should I
> remove
> >> them? I'm not a censor.
> >>
> >> Anna
> >
> >That is right. You are not a censor. You are a sensor. You feel the
> >temprature for the fashists in the Greek Government. How much do
> >they pay you?
> >
>
> That's a load of bull, and you know it.
Bull shit!
> BTW what type of sensor do you
> think I am, mechanical, electro-mechanical, electronic...?
Get real.
>
>
> Anna
>
> >>
> >>
> >> >nevzat
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
Kritifile
Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36FA8E0A...@bellsouth.net>...
Is that whats on your mind! ;-))
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Turkish Cypriot women, join your Greek Cypriot sisters. Women
>> have
>> >> the
>> >> >> ultimate power over men.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Anna
>> >> >
>> >> >Actually what she wants to say is Greeks are great. (usual
crap.)
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I wouldn't describe the only culture I feel completely at home
in
>> as
>> >> crap. How many times do I have to say that I have no prejudice
>> against
>> >> any individual because of their race.
>> >
>> >A complete bull so far. But I'll read the rest.
>> >
>>
>> Not bull, truth.
>
>A total bull.
>
No bullshit from me!
>>
>>
>> >> One thing that might come as a
>> >> surprise, as individuals, some Greeks are very nasty people.
Same
>> as
>> >> any other race. You can't generalize to that extent. In the same
>> way
>> >> as I am convinced that there must be some decent Turks
somewhere.
>> >
>> >That's right. Some Greeks (a few of them are nasty) and some Turks
>> >a few of them are decent) and you are not racist. There you go.
You
>> >ain't racist, how can you be a racist if you say something like
this!
>> >
>>
>> I didn't say that a few Turks are decent.
>
>Yes. You did.
>
How can I know from experience. I've met one. That's all. Some Turkish
Cypriots who live here. All fine. Nice people.
>> I said that you can't
>> generalize about any race.
>
>No. You can generalize about Turks.
>
How can I? There is a difference between politics and ordinary
humanity. There is to me, anyway. People can't always have the
government that would be best for them. Often they don't have. When
that happens, people suffer, anywhere. I include Turkey.
>> Individuals are just that.
>
>It is only you and few others.
>
Only a few people are individuals? Is that what you're saying? What a
dull world if everyone were the same.
>> I have a very
>> small experience of Turks, very large experience of Greeks. So I
can
>> give my opinions on Greeks, not Turks.
>
>So you can stop your bull.
>
I repeat, truth.
I can still say what I think about a GOVERNMENT and the way it treats
its own citizens as well as its foreign policy. Haven't you noticed,
the criticism of the Turkish government includes that governments
treatment of its own people. In Turkey there is no true free speech. I
don't have to go there to know that. Not only is it documented (check
Amnesty International) but I've spoken to people who have experienced
life in Turkey. I wonder why there are so many Turkish men who want to
marry women tourists, especially from EC countries. Britain is high on
the list.
>> I would only consider making
>> broad generalizations on a people I knew personally. I'm not
talking
>> politics, I'm talking people.
>
>You can't talk about anything. You can only push Greek propaganda.
>
I don't push any propaganda. You don't believe me, but I would say
nothing that I did not feel to be right.
>>
>>
>> >> They
>> >> just don't post in the Greek newsgroups, same as I don't usually
>> post
>> >> in the Turkish ones unless I am replying to something that
someone
>> has
>> >> already put Turkish NG headers on. In that case, why should I
>> remove
>> >> them? I'm not a censor.
>> >>
>> >> Anna
>> >
>> >That is right. You are not a censor. You are a sensor. You feel
the
>> >temprature for the fashists in the Greek Government. How much do
>> >they pay you?
>> >
>>
>> That's a load of bull, and you know it.
>
>Bull shit!
>
You said it. I merely stated the truth.
>> BTW what type of sensor do you
>> think I am, mechanical, electro-mechanical, electronic...?
>
>Get real.
>
I thought you were making a joke. I was just trying to reply in kind.
Anna
>>
>>
>> Anna
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >nevzat
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>
Kritifile
dakar wrote in message <36fa5...@alpha2.superonline.com>...
>If the Ottoman Empire was as oppressive as you say for 400 years,
than there
>would not be any Greek culture or language left in the world today.
It took
>the Spanish only 100 years to assimilate the entire South America. If
Greece
>had been invaded by the Spanish for 400 years, you poor souls would
all be
>catholics and speaking Spanish today. Instead, the Ottomans just
collected
>their tax and left you alone. So stop being a cry baby.....
>
>Orhan
>
Some peoples did give in. Albania, Bosnia, a small part of Greece.
Throughout the Balkan region there were many who were forced to
convert and now have to live in Turkey. There are some muslims still
in Orthodox countries. Some Greeks became muslim, true, but the
majority kept there culture and religion. They never gave up the dream
of freedom. They were the first people to win their freedom. At least
the ottomans did not force language change, but even in South America
today there are people who speak there old language and their old
religion lives on, with a "catholic" veneer.
Anna
>
>
>Kritifile wrote in message <7d923l$2lo$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>...
>>
Jason
coming from Mongolia? Probably not. You know why? Because you are
descendant of a series of other ethnicities that were assimilated by the
Ottomans. All these, Greeks, Armenians, Catholic Latins, Arabs, Slavs etc
were subjected to such terror that they turned to islam and became "Turks."
So here's the answer to your question. But why should the Turks collect
taxes anyway? Who are they to demand taxes from other people?
Jason
dakar <pgr...@superonline.com> wrote in message
news:36fa5...@alpha2.superonline.com...
> If the Ottoman Empire was as oppressive as you say for 400 years, than
there
> would not be any Greek culture or language left in the world today. It
took
> the Spanish only 100 years to assimilate the entire South America. If
Greece
> had been invaded by the Spanish for 400 years, you poor souls would all be
> catholics and speaking Spanish today. Instead, the Ottomans just collected
> their tax and left you alone. So stop being a cry baby.....
>
> Orhan
>
>
>
> Kritifile wrote in message <7d923l$2lo$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>...
> >
Nevzat Akdemir
Kritifile wrote:
Well, if you adopt one, It might clean your soul from racisim. :-))
>
>
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Turkish Cypriot women, join your Greek Cypriot sisters. Women
> >> have
> >> >> the
> >> >> >> ultimate power over men.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Anna
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Actually what she wants to say is Greeks are great. (usual
> crap.)
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> I wouldn't describe the only culture I feel completely at home
> in
> >> as
> >> >> crap. How many times do I have to say that I have no prejudice
> >> against
> >> >> any individual because of their race.
> >> >
> >> >A complete bull so far. But I'll read the rest.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Not bull, truth.
> >
> >A total bull.
> >
>
> No bullshit from me!
another bull.
>
> >>
> >>
> >> >> One thing that might come as a
> >> >> surprise, as individuals, some Greeks are very nasty people.
> Same
> >> as
> >> >> any other race. You can't generalize to that extent. In the same
> >> way
> >> >> as I am convinced that there must be some decent Turks
> somewhere.
> >> >
> >> >That's right. Some Greeks (a few of them are nasty) and some Turks
> >> >a few of them are decent) and you are not racist. There you go.
> You
> >> >ain't racist, how can you be a racist if you say something like
> this!
> >> >
> >>
> >> I didn't say that a few Turks are decent.
> >
> >Yes. You did.
> >
>
> How can I know from experience. I've met one. That's all. Some Turkish
> Cypriots who live here. All fine. Nice people.
Hmm. What do you think about Turcoman?
>
>
> >> I said that you can't
> >> generalize about any race.
> >
> >No. You can generalize about Turks.
> >
>
> How can I? There is a difference between politics and ordinary
> humanity. There is to me, anyway. People can't always have the
> government that would be best for them. Often they don't have. When
> that happens, people suffer, anywhere. I include Turkey.
You also can say "Turks are worse than child molesters." What else?
>
>
> >> Individuals are just that.
> >
> >It is only you and few others.
> >
>
> Only a few people are individuals? Is that what you're saying? What a
> dull world if everyone were the same.
No. I did not understand what you were saying. So, I threw something like
blah blah. That was all. I don't ask directions when I get lost. I don't
care.
>
>
> >> I have a very
> >> small experience of Turks, very large experience of Greeks. So I
> can
> >> give my opinions on Greeks, not Turks.
> >
> >So you can stop your bull.
> >
> I repeat, truth.
>
> I can still say what I think about a GOVERNMENT and the way it treats
> its own citizens as well as its foreign policy. Haven't you noticed,
> the criticism of the Turkish government includes that governments
> treatment of its own people. In Turkey there is no true free speech. I
> don't have to go there to know that. Not only is it documented (check
> Amnesty International) but I've spoken to people who have experienced
> life in Turkey. I wonder why there are so many Turkish men who want to
> marry women tourists, especially from EC countries. Britain is high on
> the list.
I had an article about this free speech in Turkey issue, I can't locate
it.
But I'll tell you what is left in my mind. If a man comes up and starts
giving speaches in England like: "Our Church towers our weapons/ Our
Church domes our shields/Our believers are the soldiers/ etc. etc."
does not mean anything and It is a free speech. Yes. But if someone
in Istanbul starts talking to citizens : "Our minarets are our sabres/ our
mosque domes are our shields/ our believers(fanatic moslems) are our
soldiers/ etc. etc." it is a felony. The man in England cannot harm the
country by his words but the one in Turkey can harm the country. So
every Brrrritish learning this starts thinking there is no free speach in
Turkey.
But, on the other hand a KKK parade in Istanbul is just a curiosity for
the
Turks. (Westerners are very racist. Turks are not.) So, you see, It all
depends on
what do you mean by free speech. ( I have a terrible cold. Perhaps I am
not
explaining myself well. But stick with me.) Try to give some time to work
out the differences. On the other hand you cannot say that you agree with
me
because you will be ousted from scg by some bigots, I know that too.
Why Turkish men do get marry with tourists, do they? I don't know. Even if
I
know they do, I couldn't answer you. The relation between the man and the
woman is so complex, phisically, mentally and I am not that great thinker.
(Yes I am great but this one is out of my league. heh) Millions of Greek
ended
up in New World, why? I can count you a whole bunch of reasons but at the
end I consider myself almost zero. There could be thousands of reasons.
>
>
> >> I would only consider making
> >> broad generalizations on a people I knew personally. I'm not
> talking
> >> politics, I'm talking people.
> >
> >You can't talk about anything. You can only push Greek propaganda.
> >
>
> I don't push any propaganda. You don't believe me, but I would say
> nothing that I did not feel to be right.
But you do. For various reasons you repeat the same lines with the
Greek Government and its fashist members. All the time. I never see
you writing about Turks in Thrace. They are in the AI reports too.
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> >> They
> >> >> just don't post in the Greek newsgroups, same as I don't usually
> >> post
> >> >> in the Turkish ones unless I am replying to something that
> someone
> >> has
> >> >> already put Turkish NG headers on. In that case, why should I
> >> remove
> >> >> them? I'm not a censor.
> >> >>
> >> >> Anna
> >> >
> >> >That is right. You are not a censor. You are a sensor. You feel
> the
> >> >temprature for the fashists in the Greek Government. How much do
> >> >they pay you?
> >> >
> >>
> >> That's a load of bull, and you know it.
> >
> >Bull shit!
> >
>
> You said it. I merely stated the truth.
Mine is truth also.
>
>
> >> BTW what type of sensor do you
> >> think I am, mechanical, electro-mechanical, electronic...?
> >
> >Get real.
> >
>
> I thought you were making a joke. I was just trying to reply in kind.
I meant "I made a stupid joke, let it go." That was all.
>
>
> Anna
>
> >>
> >>
> >> Anna
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >nevzat
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >
Kritifile
Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36FB4CD2...@bellsouth.net>...
>
>
>Kritifile wrote:
>
>> Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message
<36FA8E0A...@bellsouth.net>...
>> >
>> >
>> >Kritifile wrote:
>> >
>> >> Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message
>> <36FA2C0F...@bellsouth.net>...
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Kritifile wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message
>> >> <36F946CC...@bellsouth.net>...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Kritifile wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Outshined wrote in message
>> <01be762a$70fd3920$6c5dac3e@dog42>...
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Lobby for Cyprus <ad...@lobbyforcyprus.org> wrote in
article
>> >> >> >> ><7dbccd$45r$1...@newnews.global.net.uk>...
(Snipped)
>> >You wanna little Turkish baby?
>> >
>>
>> Is that whats on your mind! ;-))
>
>Well, if you adopt one, It might clean your soul from racisim. :-))
>
If I wanted to adopt a baby I probably would adopt one that was
unlikely to find a family due to the race or color of the child.
>> No bullshit from me!
>
>another bull.
>
Wrong again!
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >> One thing that might come as a
>> >> >> surprise, as individuals, some Greeks are very nasty people.
>> Same
>> >> as
>> >> >> any other race. You can't generalize to that extent. In the
same
>> >> way
>> >> >> as I am convinced that there must be some decent Turks
>> somewhere.
>> >> >
>> >> >That's right. Some Greeks (a few of them are nasty) and some
Turks
>> >> >a few of them are decent) and you are not racist. There you go.
>> You
>> >> >ain't racist, how can you be a racist if you say something like
>> this!
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I didn't say that a few Turks are decent.
>> >
>> >Yes. You did.
>> >
>>
>> How can I know from experience. I've met one. That's all. Some
Turkish
>> Cypriots who live here. All fine. Nice people.
>
>Hmm. What do you think about Turcoman?
>
At least he is capable of making a joke.
>>
>>
>> >> I said that you can't
>> >> generalize about any race.
>> >
>> >No. You can generalize about Turks.
>> >
>>
>> How can I? There is a difference between politics and ordinary
>> humanity. There is to me, anyway. People can't always have the
>> government that would be best for them. Often they don't have. When
>> that happens, people suffer, anywhere. I include Turkey.
>
>You also can say "Turks are worse than child molesters." What else?
>
Does every one always say exactly what they think on Usenet? Is
everything black and white?
>>
>>
>> >> Individuals are just that.
>> >
>> >It is only you and few others.
>> >
>>
>> Only a few people are individuals? Is that what you're saying? What
a
>> dull world if everyone were the same.
>
>No. I did not understand what you were saying. So, I threw something
like
>blah blah. That was all. I don't ask directions when I get lost. I
don't
>care.
>
That is the big difference. I do ask for directions. I do care that I
get my facts right.
Nobody would say anything like that in England. They don't think that
way. The closest I can think of is "Onward Christian Soldiers" but
that is about upholding moral values.
Yes. But if someone
>in Istanbul starts talking to citizens : "Our minarets are our
sabres/ our
>
>mosque domes are our shields/ our believers(fanatic moslems) are our
>soldiers/ etc. etc." it is a felony. The man in England cannot harm
the
>country by his words but the one in Turkey can harm the country. So
>every Brrrritish learning this starts thinking there is no free
speach in
>Turkey.
How can someone harm their country by words, if that country is not at
war? A government that does not permit that is a frightened
government. In Britain you can shout from the rooftops, publish in
newspapers, such things as "overthrow the government if they don't do
what I want. The government is facist/communist". No prosecutions.
That is Free Speech.
>But, on the other hand a KKK parade in Istanbul is just a curiosity
for
>the
>Turks. (Westerners are very racist. Turks are not.)
You have KKK in Turkey? Not in Britain. There is the lunatic fringe,
such as the British National Party. They are rascist. They have little
support. In the ordinary population there is some racism, mainly fear
of jobs taken by immigrants causing it. No mixed race country has no
racism.
So, you see, It
all
>depends on
>what do you mean by free speech.
We seem to have different definitions.
( I have a terrible cold. Perhaps I
am
>not
>explaining myself well. But stick with me.)
I hope you get over your cold quickly. I'd send you some Mountain Tea,
but you'd be over it by the time it arrived.
Try to give some time to
work
>out the differences. On the other hand you cannot say that you agree
with
>me
>because you will be ousted from scg by some bigots, I know that too.
>
I have sometimes said things that others disagree with. I don't care
if they do or not. It just happens that I think the same way as most
Greeks in the NG. Not all, though.
>Why Turkish men do get marry with tourists, do they? I don't know.
Even if
>I
>know they do, I couldn't answer you. The relation between the man and
the
>woman is so complex, phisically, mentally and I am not that great
thinker.
>
Many reasons, but the ones we hear about are to obtain an EU passport
and leave Turkey as the citizen of another country.
>(Yes I am great but this one is out of my league. heh) Millions of
Greek
>ended
>up in New World, why?
Two main reasons. The early immigrants, the Ottoman Empire, the later
ones, escape from poverty, later still, more opportunity, especially
for the well-educated. The same reasons as
why there are more Irish outside Ireland.
I can count you a whole bunch of reasons but at
the
>end I consider myself almost zero. There could be thousands of
reasons.
>
There are thousands of reasons. That is true for anyone who chooses to
emigrate.
>
>>
>>
>> >> I would only consider making
>> >> broad generalizations on a people I knew personally. I'm not
>> talking
>> >> politics, I'm talking people.
>> >
>> >You can't talk about anything. You can only push Greek propaganda.
>> >
>>
>> I don't push any propaganda. You don't believe me, but I would say
>> nothing that I did not feel to be right.
>
>But you do. For various reasons you repeat the same lines with the
>Greek Government and its fashist members. All the time. I never see
>you writing about Turks in Thrace. They are in the AI reports too.
>
I've never been to Thrace and know nobody from Thrace. I require more
information than I can obtain from a book or a web site to give an
opinion about any part of Greece. From what I have read, there is a
lot of Turkish propaganda and a few extremists in Thrace.
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >> They
>> >> >> just don't post in the Greek newsgroups, same as I don't
usually
>> >> post
>> >> >> in the Turkish ones unless I am replying to something that
>> someone
>> >> has
>> >> >> already put Turkish NG headers on. In that case, why should I
>> >> remove
>> >> >> them? I'm not a censor.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Anna
>> >> >
>> >> >That is right. You are not a censor. You are a sensor. You feel
>> the
>> >> >temprature for the fashists in the Greek Government. How much
do
>> >> >they pay you?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> That's a load of bull, and you know it.
>> >
>> >Bull shit!
>> >
>>
>> You said it. I merely stated the truth.
>
>Mine is truth also.
>
Can there be two truths, equally true but opposite?
>>
>>
>> >> BTW what type of sensor do you
>> >> think I am, mechanical, electro-mechanical, electronic...?
>> >
>> >Get real.
>> >
>>
>> I thought you were making a joke. I was just trying to reply in
kind.
>
>I meant "I made a stupid joke, let it go." That was all.
>
OK. I understand now.
Anna
>
>>
>>
>> Anna
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Anna
>> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >nevzat
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>
Outshined
Kritifile <law...@btinternet.com> wrote in article
<7diov3$lp3$1...@mendelevium.btinternet.com>...
Kritifile
Turcoman wrote in message <7dddbh$5pq$1...@mendelevium.btinternet.com>...
>"Hell is paved with womens tongues."
>Albe Guyon
>
I'll add to that.
"Women's tongues are used with gentility. Beware a woman who is
angry."
>Anna
>I hope this doesn't mean its over between us.
>
How could I leave you alone for long?
>How will I have the motivation to come to the NGs
>if your bile isn't there to stick to my monitor?
>What will replace your stinging words to my race?
>Who will bring Hellenese propaganda to my life?
>Where will my heart be without a Hellene cat to claw it?
>Who will respond when I say Clerides is a transvestite?
>
>Woe is me, woe, woe, woe...
>
Is that a compliment? I'll take it as such.
I'm sure there are plenty who would say the same. Of course they are
men, therefore much weaker than women.
Anna
>
>Kritifile wrote in message <7dd5hk$8f0$3...@plutonium.btinternet.com>...
>>
>>Turcoman wrote in message <7dbisk$kk6$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>...
>>>Give a woman an inch and she thinks she's a ruler.
>>>
>>>She loves me * She loves me not * She loves me *...
>>>
>>
>>That shows your opinion of women...not that of anyone living in
1999.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Turkish women in Cyprus, chain your husbands to the kitchens! It
>>will
>>>>keep them out of trouble.
>>>>
>>>>Turkish Cypriot women, join your Greek Cypriot sisters. Women have
>>the
>>>>ultimate power over men.
>>>>
>>>>Anna
>>>>
>>>>
>>
Kritifile
Outshined wrote in message <01be7861$f6800b20$383d63c3@dog42>...
>Umm... remind me, how the hell did all this bullshit start again?
>
I think I made a comparison between Greek and Turk, thereby insulting
Turks.
Anna
Nevzat Akdemir
>
> >But I'll tell you what is left in my mind. If a man comes up and
> starts
> >giving speaches in England like: "Our Church towers our weapons/ Our
> >Church domes our shields/Our believers are the soldiers/ etc. etc."
> >does not mean anything and It is a free speech.
> Nobody would say anything like that in England. They don't think that
> way. The closest I can think of is "Onward Christian Soldiers" but
> that is about upholding moral values.
>
> Yes. But if someone
> >in Istanbul starts talking to citizens : "Our minarets are our
> sabres/ our
> >
> >mosque domes are our shields/ our believers(fanatic moslems) are our
> >soldiers/ etc. etc." it is a felony. The man in England cannot harm
> the
> >country by his words but the one in Turkey can harm the country. So
> >every Brrrritish learning this starts thinking there is no free
> speach in
> >Turkey.
>
> How can someone harm their country by words, if that country is not at
> war? A government that does not permit that is a frightened
> government. In Britain you can shout from the rooftops, publish in
> newspapers, such things as "overthrow the government if they don't do
> what I want. The government is facist/communist". No prosecutions.
> That is Free Speech.
First of all the issue here is not the government but the state.
Governments
come and go. You can find a lot of nonsense talk (cursing, bad mouthing,
etc) about ministers or president of the republic and noone will do or say
anything
about it. I don't know much about England but at some other Western
countries you can open your mouth and if, if and if, some groups, some
establishments find out you are doing this systematically, on purpose,
seriously, then, they will cook your butt. No doubt about it. I have
the proof taken from daily newspapers. I am sure you read them too. There
is
no such thing as absolute, utopic free speech. There are nuanses.
In Turkey seperatism is a crime punishable by law. If an able politician
reads a
poem as such, it is felony. Since the citizens suppose to know the law of
the
land beforehand (especially a politician in his caliber), they are found
guilty
for reading this certain poem to the masses. He is openly pushing
seperatism.
Anyway he got 8 months in jail term and will be out in 4 months. They did
not
drop a napalm bomb on his residency and burned him up with his family
like happened in some "civilized" Western countries.
But Anna is still screaming about free speech. Wonder why?
>
>
> >But, on the other hand a KKK parade in Istanbul is just a curiosity
> for
> >the
> >Turks. (Westerners are very racist. Turks are not.)
>
> You have KKK in Turkey? Not in Britain. There is the lunatic fringe,
> such as the British National Party. They are rascist. They have little
> support. In the ordinary population there is some racism, mainly fear
> of jobs taken by immigrants causing it. No mixed race country has no
> racism.
No. They don't have KKK in Turkey. What I am saying is "IF" there was
a KKK parade and/or cross burning in Istanbul (which is form of free
speech), Turks wouldn't care, even tho they are not racist at all.
I am just trying to explain how societies understand the free speech.
Some issues are ok in England to talk about and maybe ok even you
push propaganda about seperatism. That is not true for Turkey. They even
laws against it. Burning the American Flag is a form of free speech in the
US.,
burning the Turkish Flag is a NO NO in Turkey.
If you do not like the laws then change them. You need the majority in the
house. NOT Greek provided missiles over the mountains. Or you can leave.
In a democracy, you have to obey what majority says. Well, not exactly
obey
but definitely you have to accept it.
>
>
> So, you see, It
> all
> >depends on
> >what do you mean by free speech.
>
> We seem to have different definitions.
Free speech is different, varies among most of the societies.
In Turkey, a seperatist publishes a book in Kurdish, pushing his agenda
and
he finds himself in jail. Then here comes Anna from England, thinking free
speech should be just like in England or Belgium or what ever, starts
raising
hell: there is no freedom in Turkey. This is totally wrong.
Kritifile
Nick Krinis
Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
> Free speech is different, varies among most of the societies.
> In Turkey, a seperatist publishes a book in Kurdish, pushing his agenda
> and
> he finds himself in jail. Then here comes Anna from England, thinking free
>
> speech should be just like in England or Belgium or what ever, starts
> raising
> hell: there is no freedom in Turkey. This is totally wrong.
Anna, what were you thinking?:-) Turkey is a fine example of "home
grown" democracy (actually Nevrat is probably enjoying some as we speak, hehe).
You see, in a backwards society such as Turkey, free speech is
unnecessary and is considered as another element of "Western
Corruption"! Oooooooooo....
For a more in depth view of what a fine job the military is doing in
Toorkey, read Amnesty.International.org. Great stuff!
Nicolas Krinis
Nevzat Akdemir
I know you are lying because you do not know
what to say. :-)
Take a hike. Little pimp.
nevzat
Kritifile
Nick Krinis wrote in message <36FF01F5...@nospamnbnet.nb.ca>...
>
>
>Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
>
>> Free speech is different, varies among most of the societies.
>> In Turkey, a seperatist publishes a book in Kurdish, pushing his
agenda
>> and
>> he finds himself in jail. Then here comes Anna from England,
thinking free
>>
>> speech should be just like in England or Belgium or what ever,
starts
>> raising
>> hell: there is no freedom in Turkey. This is totally wrong.
>
>Anna, what were you thinking?:-) Turkey is a fine example of "home
>grown" democracy (actually Nevrat is probably enjoying some as we
speak, hehe).
>You see, in a backwards society such as Turkey, free speech is
>unnecessary and is considered as another element of "Western
>Corruption"! Oooooooooo....
>For a more in depth view of what a fine job the military is doing in
>Toorkey, read Amnesty.International.org. Great stuff!
>
>Nicolas Krinis
It does make interesting reading. Pity Nevzat has never read it.
Anna
Kritifile
grown democracy" is not democracy. There is no such thing as freedom
of speech in Turkey.
Anna
Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36FF13ED...@bellsouth.net>...
>Whenever I see you use those quote marks
>I know you are lying because you do not know
>what to say. :-)
>
>Take a hike. Little pimp.
>
>nevzat
>
>
>
>
>Nick Krinis wrote:
>
Nevzat Akdemir
Of course there is freedom of speech in Turkey.
You can even curse at the president, as long as
you don't try to divide the country.
Kritifile you are mad at me, ok.
nevzat
Nevzat Akdemir
track. He even talks about my English. I respond
in English as much as I can. If he does not like it
we can converse in Turkish.
It just show you how small he is.
nevzat
Kritifile wrote:
> Nick Krinis wrote in message <36FF01F5...@nospamnbnet.nb.ca>...
> >
> >
> >Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
> >
> >> Free speech is different, varies among most of the societies.
> >> In Turkey, a seperatist publishes a book in Kurdish, pushing his
> agenda
> >> and
> >> he finds himself in jail. Then here comes Anna from England,
> thinking free
> >>
> >> speech should be just like in England or Belgium or what ever,
> starts
> >> raising
> >> hell: there is no freedom in Turkey. This is totally wrong.
> >
> >Anna, what were you thinking?:-) Turkey is a fine example of "home
> >grown" democracy (actually Nevrat is probably enjoying some as we
> speak, hehe).
> >You see, in a backwards society such as Turkey, free speech is
> >unnecessary and is considered as another element of "Western
> >Corruption"! Oooooooooo....
> >For a more in depth view of what a fine job the military is doing in
> >Toorkey, read Amnesty.International.org. Great stuff!
> >
> >Nicolas Krinis
>
dimos psorofillias
Emir Nevzat, don't tell us stories,
if you curse the president you would have go to jail, because you offended
the
'Kemalistic System' which is a subject for punishment in turkey.
Used quite often, for poeple who opend their mouth to wide.
Your english is very well, don't get bothered from the comments of the
others.
Demosthenes
Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
> What is going on? Are you also Nicolas Krinis?
> Of course there is freedom of speech in Turkey.
> You can even curse at the president, as long as
> you don't try to divide the country.
> Kritifile you are mad at me, ok.
>
> nevzat
>
> Kritifile wrote:
>
> > Those quote marks, Nevrat, mean exactly what they say. Turkish "home
> > grown democracy" is not democracy. There is no such thing as freedom
> > of speech in Turkey.
> >
> > Anna
> >
> > Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36FF13ED...@bellsouth.net>...
> > >Whenever I see you use those quote marks
> > >I know you are lying because you do not know
> > >what to say. :-)
> > >
> > >Take a hike. Little pimp.
> > >
> > >nevzat
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Nick Krinis wrote:
> > >
Nevzat Akdemir
I think you have some obscure sources about your information
about Turks. Than again, what else? You are a Greek, aren't you?
Please don't worry about my English. I've seen worse. :-)
nevzat
Kritifile
Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36FF57D1...@bellsouth.net>...
>What is going on? Are you also Nicolas Krinis?
>Of course there is freedom of speech in Turkey.
>You can even curse at the president, as long as
>you don't try to divide the country.
>Kritifile you are mad at me, ok.
>
>nevzat
>
I am me, nobody else. I posted something, someone else replied while I
was offline. That does not mean that I can't say what I think, even if
I agree with the other person.
Me! Mad at you? Why should I be? :-)
Anna
>
>
>Kritifile wrote:
>
>> Those quote marks, Nevrat, mean exactly what they say. Turkish
"home
>> grown democracy" is not democracy. There is no such thing as
freedom
>> of speech in Turkey.
>>
>> Anna
>>
>> Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message
Kritifile
Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36FF738D...@bellsouth.net>...
>What I say is the truth.
>I think you have some obscure sources about your information
>about Turks. Than again, what else? You are a Greek, aren't you?
>
>Please don't worry about my English. I've seen worse. :-)
>
>
>nevzat
>
>
Can't you accept a compliment when you get one, Nevzat? I suppose,
coming from a Greek, you don't see it as such. The same as you see
everything that doesn't follow the Kemalist line as anti-Turkish. I
assume you have family in Turkey. If that is true, I need say no more
on the subject.
Anna
>
>
>
>dimos psorofillias wrote:
>
>> Emir Nevzat, don't tell us stories,
>> if you curse the president you would have go to jail, because you
offended
>> the
>> 'Kemalistic System' which is a subject for punishment in turkey.
>> Used quite often, for poeple who opend their mouth to wide.
>>
>> Your english is very well, don't get bothered from the comments of
the
>> others.
>>
>> Demosthenes
>>
>> Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
>>
>> > What is going on? Are you also Nicolas Krinis?
>> > Of course there is freedom of speech in Turkey.
>> > You can even curse at the president, as long as
>> > you don't try to divide the country.
>> > Kritifile you are mad at me, ok.
>> >
>> > nevzat
>> >
>> > Kritifile wrote:
>> >
>> > > Those quote marks, Nevrat, mean exactly what they say. Turkish
"home
>> > > grown democracy" is not democracy. There is no such thing as
freedom
>> > > of speech in Turkey.
>> > >
>> > > Anna
>> > >
>> > > Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message
dimos psorofillias
There are some obcure laws in turkey which make me say things like
this ?
Tomorrow i can give you the paragraph and the laws text.
Don't get aaaaaaangry man we discuss, arcadas.
How was kurban?
Demosthenes
Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
> What I say is the truth.
> I think you have some obscure sources about your information
> about Turks. Than again, what else? You are a Greek, aren't you?
>
> Please don't worry about my English. I've seen worse. :-)
>
> nevzat
>
> dimos psorofillias wrote:
>
> > Emir Nevzat, don't tell us stories,
> > if you curse the president you would have go to jail, because you offended
> > the
> > 'Kemalistic System' which is a subject for punishment in turkey.
> > Used quite often, for poeple who opend their mouth to wide.
> >
> > Your english is very well, don't get bothered from the comments of the
> > others.
> >
> > Demosthenes
> >
> > Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
> >
> > > What is going on? Are you also Nicolas Krinis?
> > > Of course there is freedom of speech in Turkey.
> > > You can even curse at the president, as long as
> > > you don't try to divide the country.
> > > Kritifile you are mad at me, ok.
> > >
> > > nevzat
> > >
> > > Kritifile wrote:
> > >
> > > > Those quote marks, Nevrat, mean exactly what they say. Turkish "home
> > > > grown democracy" is not democracy. There is no such thing as freedom
> > > > of speech in Turkey.
> > > >
> > > > Anna
> > > >
> > > > Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36FF13ED...@bellsouth.net>...
Kritifile
Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36FF588C...@bellsouth.net>...
>Nicolas is nothing but a gas in the intestinal
>track. He even talks about my English. I respond
>in English as much as I can. If he does not like it
>we can converse in Turkish.
>It just show you how small he is.
>
>nevzat
>
>
Be fair. If you want to converse in another language I would suggest
neither Greek or Turkish. How about French or Italian?
Anna
>
>Kritifile wrote:
>
>> Nick Krinis wrote in message
<36FF01F5...@nospamnbnet.nb.ca>...
>> >
>> >
>> >Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
>> >
>> >> Free speech is different, varies among most of the societies.
>> >> In Turkey, a seperatist publishes a book in Kurdish, pushing his
>> agenda
>> >> and
>> >> he finds himself in jail. Then here comes Anna from England,
>> thinking free
>> >>
>> >> speech should be just like in England or Belgium or what ever,
>> starts
>> >> raising
>> >> hell: there is no freedom in Turkey. This is totally wrong.
>> >
>> >Anna, what were you thinking?:-) Turkey is a fine example of "home
>> >grown" democracy (actually Nevrat is probably enjoying some as we
>> speak, hehe).
>> >You see, in a backwards society such as Turkey, free speech is
>> >unnecessary and is considered as another element of "Western
>> >Corruption"! Oooooooooo....
>> >For a more in depth view of what a fine job the military is doing
in
>> >Toorkey, read Amnesty.International.org. Great stuff!
>> >
>> >Nicolas Krinis
>>
Nevzat Akdemir
Please don't start that manupilation line, like I have a family in Turkey.
They (My family in Turkey and I can say anything we want) As long as
we do not gather ten thousand people after a Friday moslem prayers and
read a poem like: Our shields are the domes/ Our sabres are the minarets/
Oh muslims unite/ And topple this state. etc., etc...
I wouldn't do that in any country. Not only in Turkey. You do that in some
countries that I have lived, they may not do or say openly but trust me
you'd
better leave that area. One way or the other they'll get back at you.
Besides
stupid who read those lines was a politician, good at his job and he only
got
eight months in jail, he is out in four months.
If I were a judge I would have kept him in the bird cage about five years,
at least. If he wants to do a revolution better be calculating
consequences
very carefully. No body can be that dumb.
As far as compliment business goes, sorry, I lost my trust in Greeks for
a while now. Especially after that 13 people burned in Istanbul. Forget
it.
I do not trust anyone of you. This is the truth. But I know It wont'
bother
you all.
nevzat
Kritifile wrote:
> Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36FF738D...@bellsouth.net>...
> >What I say is the truth.
> >I think you have some obscure sources about your information
> >about Turks. Than again, what else? You are a Greek, aren't you?
> >
> >Please don't worry about my English. I've seen worse. :-)
> >
> >
> >nevzat
> >
> >
>
> Can't you accept a compliment when you get one, Nevzat? I suppose,
> coming from a Greek, you don't see it as such. The same as you see
> everything that doesn't follow the Kemalist line as anti-Turkish. I
> assume you have family in Turkey. If that is true, I need say no more
> on the subject.
>
> Anna
>
> >
> >
> >
> >> > > Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message
> <36FF13ED...@bellsouth.net>...
> >> > > >Whenever I see you use those quote marks
> >> > > >I know you are lying because you do not know
> >> > > >what to say. :-)
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Take a hike. Little pimp.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >nevzat
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Nick Krinis wrote:
> >> > > >
Nevzat Akdemir
English and the native tongue of that newsgroup.
nevzat
Kritifile wrote:
> Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36FF588C...@bellsouth.net>...
> >Nicolas is nothing but a gas in the intestinal
> >track. He even talks about my English. I respond
> >in English as much as I can. If he does not like it
> >we can converse in Turkish.
> >It just show you how small he is.
> >
> >nevzat
> >
> >
>
> Be fair. If you want to converse in another language I would suggest
> neither Greek or Turkish. How about French or Italian?
>
> Anna
>
> >
> >Kritifile wrote:
> >
> >> Nick Krinis wrote in message
> <36FF01F5...@nospamnbnet.nb.ca>...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Free speech is different, varies among most of the societies.
> >> >> In Turkey, a seperatist publishes a book in Kurdish, pushing his
> >> agenda
> >> >> and
> >> >> he finds himself in jail. Then here comes Anna from England,
> >> thinking free
> >> >>
> >> >> speech should be just like in England or Belgium or what ever,
> >> starts
> >> >> raising
> >> >> hell: there is no freedom in Turkey. This is totally wrong.
> >> >
> >> >Anna, what were you thinking?:-) Turkey is a fine example of "home
> >> >grown" democracy (actually Nevrat is probably enjoying some as we
> >> speak, hehe).
> >> >You see, in a backwards society such as Turkey, free speech is
> >> >unnecessary and is considered as another element of "Western
> >> >Corruption"! Oooooooooo....
> >> >For a more in depth view of what a fine job the military is doing
> in
> >> >Toorkey, read Amnesty.International.org. Great stuff!
> >> >
> >> >Nicolas Krinis
> >>
dimos psorofillias
led me remind you the incident, when 34 greek tourist burned in a tourist bus
in istanbul, due to a molotow cocktail thrown by a extremist islamist about 5
years
ago.
What should we say???, stop talking to turks forever????
Demosthenes
Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
> > >> > > Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message
> > <36FF13ED...@bellsouth.net>...
> > >> > > >Whenever I see you use those quote marks
> > >> > > >I know you are lying because you do not know
> > >> > > >what to say. :-)
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >Take a hike. Little pimp.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >nevzat
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >Nick Krinis wrote:
> > >> > > >
Kritifile
Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36FD57E3...@bellsouth.net>...
>> Most of the bs is cut.....
>
>>
>Governments
>come and go. You can find a lot of nonsense talk (cursing, bad
mouthing,
>etc) about ministers or president of the republic and noone will do
or say
>anything
>about it. I don't know much about England but at some other Western
>countries you can open your mouth and if, if and if, some groups,
some
>establishments find out you are doing this systematically, on
purpose,
>seriously, then, they will cook your butt. No doubt about it. I have
>the proof taken from daily newspapers. I am sure you read them too.
>is
>no such thing as absolute, utopic free speech. There are nuanses.
>
Not in the UK unless one is giving away state secrets or the country
is at war. This is true for all free countries. Of course the security
of the state comes first when it is at risk. The question is, how
secure is the state? How safe does it feel? Can it survive without
repression?
>In Turkey seperatism is a crime punishable by law.
In democratic countries it is only a felony if the separatists take up
arms and resort to violence against the state. This has happened in
Britain, in Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
If an able politician
>reads a
>poem as such, it is felony. Since the citizens suppose to know the
law of
>the
>land beforehand (especially a politician in his caliber), they are
found
>guilty
>for reading this certain poem to the masses. He is openly pushing
>seperatism.
>
Free speech means that one can make statements, form political
parties, stand for government, in order to promote the seperatist
movement. As long as the methods are peaceful and non-vioplent, only a
totalitarian regime would make that illegal.
>Anyway he got 8 months in jail term and will be out in 4 months. They
did
>not
>drop a napalm bomb on his residency and burned him up with his family
>like happened in some "civilized" Western countries.
>
That does not happen in civilized countries. There is always a lunatic
fringe, but that is not representative of the state. In fact, the
opposite is true, to do that would be a felony.
>
>But Anna is still screaming about free speech. Wonder why?
>
See above.
>>
>>
>> >But, on the other hand a KKK parade in Istanbul is just a
curiosity
>> for
>> >the
>> >Turks. (Westerners are very racist. Turks are not.)
>>
>> You have KKK in Turkey? Not in Britain. There is the lunatic
fringe,
>> such as the British National Party. They are rascist. They have
little
>> support. In the ordinary population there is some racism, mainly
fear
>> of jobs taken by immigrants causing it. No mixed race country has
no
>> racism.
>
>No. They don't have KKK in Turkey. What I am saying is "IF" there was
>a KKK parade and/or cross burning in Istanbul (which is form of free
>speech), Turks wouldn't care, even tho they are not racist at all.
>I am just trying to explain how societies understand the free speech.
>
>Some issues are ok in England to talk about and maybe ok even you
>push propaganda about seperatism. That is not true for Turkey. They
even
>laws against it. Burning the American Flag is a form of free speech
in the
>US.,
>burning the Turkish Flag is a NO NO in Turkey.
>
Burning of the flag is a big no no in most countries. Not in Britain
though. I guess there is just more freedom here.
>If you do not like the laws then change them. You need the majority
in the
>
>house. NOT Greek provided missiles over the mountains. Or you can
leave.
>In a democracy, you have to obey what majority says. Well, not
exactly
>obey
>but definitely you have to accept it.
>
What about Turkish missiles, Turkish warplanes invading Greek
airspace, threats made against Greece. Is that alright for Turkey, but
Greece should not feel threatened by it?
True, in a democracy, if you disagree with the majority party you can
change it. But what if the democracy is a veneer over a military
dictatorship. You can only change that by revolution.
>>
>>
>> So, you see, It
>> all
>> >depends on
>> >what do you mean by free speech.
>>
>> We seem to have different definitions.
>
>Free speech is different, varies among most of the societies.
>In Turkey, a seperatist publishes a book in Kurdish, pushing his
agenda
>and
>he finds himself in jail. Then here comes Anna from England, thinking
free
>
>speech should be just like in England or Belgium or what ever, starts
>raising
>hell: there is no freedom in Turkey. This is totally wrong.
>
Free speech is free speech, wherever in the world one happens to be.
If free speech is not allowed in Turkey (which you have just
confirmed, Nevzat, with your example of a politicion and a poem) then
people get desperate and you find yourselves with such problems as the
PKK.
Anna
Nevzat Akdemir
Kritifile wrote:.......
> >the proof taken from daily newspapers. I am sure you read them too.
> There
> >is
> >no such thing as absolute, utopic free speech. There are nuanses.
> >
>
> Not in the UK unless one is giving away state secrets or the country
> is at war. This is true for all free countries. Of course the security
> of the state comes first when it is at risk. The question is, how
> secure is the state? How safe does it feel? Can it survive without
> repression?
I am sure in the UK also Anna. Some does it openly some does it
under the table. Also England feels much more secure than Turkey
itself, having all the modern technology to built modern weapons.
Look at Greece, what happened that woman with apo gave a speech
about lame side of the Greek Government, a lot of people pulled back
their support for PKK. So, Greeks were not feeling pretty secure that
day were they? Imagine the constant fight, exploding bombs in Turkey,
how do you think they should feel? Secure?
>
>
> >In Turkey seperatism is a crime punishable by law.
>
> In democratic countries it is only a felony if the separatists take up
> arms and resort to violence against the state. This has happened in
> Britain, in Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
It is a felony in Turkey too. They did not apply the capital punishment
since early 1980s. All they are getting is jail terms. Btw. one of the
woman terrorists, while in jail, applied for a sex change to be a man.
They moved her (him right now I guess) close to a city which has an
univ. hospital and the Turkish Government took up the costs. (The law
requires that any medical expenses will be paid by the state.) Eh,
wouldn't
you call this, at least, being very close to a perfect democratic state?
Those in the government in Turkey are not monsters as much as some
circles like to label them.
>
>
> If an able politician
> >reads a
> >poem as such, it is felony. Since the citizens suppose to know the
> law of
> >the
> >land beforehand (especially a politician in his caliber), they are
> found
> >guilty
> >for reading this certain poem to the masses. He is openly pushing
> >seperatism.
> >
>
> Free speech means that one can make statements, form political
> parties, stand for government, in order to promote the seperatist
> movement. As long as the methods are peaceful and non-vioplent, only a
> totalitarian regime would make that illegal.
On this guy's speech, you are talking about a split second the things to
get
exteremely violent. As a politician he knows that. And also he knows what
he is doing is against the law of the land. You cannot use your freedom of
speech for hurting others, cursing, advising them to take arms against the
state, etc.
Like I said, I am not pretty sure about England, but in some countries
this is
a very much crime. If the laws won't permit, they do it under the table to
him.
That is all I know.
>
>
> >Anyway he got 8 months in jail term and will be out in 4 months. They
> did
> >not
> >drop a napalm bomb on his residency and burned him up with his family
> >like happened in some "civilized" Western countries.
> >
>
> That does not happen in civilized countries. There is always a lunatic
> fringe, but that is not representative of the state. In fact, the
> opposite is true, to do that would be a felony.
Well I have seen an incident like that in one of the civilized countries.
A chopper dropped a mini napalm bomb thru the smoke stack and
about 40 people got killed, including children and women.
I rather not to give the name of that country or make any more remarks
about it. But this was happened in the past and it was a state operation.
You are talking in broad terms, I am saying I saw it. Think about that.
>
>
> >
> >But Anna is still screaming about free speech. Wonder why?
> >
>
> See above.
Ok. now it is your turn. see above.
Wait a minute then. So you accept the nuanses on freedom of speech.
Because you can easily blame those countries by being not so democratic.
If you say England is more democratic than Turkey I say, you are correct,
in this case. And what I am saying never means that Turkey is not a
democratic country.
>
>
> >If you do not like the laws then change them. You need the majority
> in the
> >
> >house. NOT Greek provided missiles over the mountains. Or you can
> leave.
> >In a democracy, you have to obey what majority says. Well, not
> exactly
> >obey
> >but definitely you have to accept it.
> >
>
> What about Turkish missiles, Turkish warplanes invading Greek
> airspace, threats made against Greece. Is that alright for Turkey, but
> Greece should not feel threatened by it?
Of course it is not ok. But there is an issue. Infamous 12 mile.
Most of the problems coming out of this point. If Greece accepts the
12 miles, then, Turkish airplanes invading the Greek airspace. But Turks
are saying that it is only 6 miles on Aegean, and their planes are within
the limtis. I don't think they will ever permit that 12 mile because of
the
special geography on Aegean Costs.
>
> True, in a democracy, if you disagree with the majority party you can
> change it. But what if the democracy is a veneer over a military
> dictatorship. You can only change that by revolution.
If you want to bring Islamic Fundamentalism in Turkey, yes, Turkey
is a military dictatorship. If you don't, It is as democratic as any other
country. This is the way it is. We consider the armed forces protect the
country from outside forces as well as inside ones. Anyone wouldn't like
it can go somewhere else.
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> So, you see, It
> >> all
> >> >depends on
> >> >what do you mean by free speech.
> >>
> >> We seem to have different definitions.
> >
> >Free speech is different, varies among most of the societies.
> >In Turkey, a seperatist publishes a book in Kurdish, pushing his
> agenda
> >and
> >he finds himself in jail. Then here comes Anna from England, thinking
> free
> >
> >speech should be just like in England or Belgium or what ever, starts
> >raising
> >hell: there is no freedom in Turkey. This is totally wrong.
> >
>
> Free speech is free speech, wherever in the world one happens to be.
> If free speech is not allowed in Turkey (which you have just
> confirmed, Nevzat, with your example of a politicion and a poem) then
> people get desperate and you find yourselves with such problems as the
> PKK.
>
> Anna
No. Free speech is not free speech. It is not an absolute idem. You gave
the
example flag burning is ok. in your country but it is not in a lot of
countries.
This does not mean that other countries wouldn't have freedom of speech.
PKK and fundamentalists are the end result of some outside powers working
on Turkey.
I KNOW the reason for this, It is very simple, but I rather not to discuss
it
on the Internet or anywhere else.
nevzat
Nick Krinis
Nevrat you pooor Tooork:
From AI, AI annual report entry 1998:
Hundreds of people were detained because of their non-violent political
activities; most
were released after a short period of police detention but others were
sentenced to terms of
imprisonment. Torture continued to be widespread and systematic in
police stations and
gendarmeries, although new legislation on detention procedures had some
impact. There
were at least six reported deaths in custody. At least nine people
reportedly &disappeared.
in security force custody and at least 20 people were killed in
circumstances suggesting that
they had been extrajudicially executed. There were no judicial
executions, although courts
continued to pass death sentences. Armed opposition groups committed
deliberate and
arbitrary killings of prisoners and civilians.</b><p>
The government headed by Necmettin Erbakan of the Islamist Welfare Party
in coalition with the
right-wing True Path Party ended with his resignation in June, largely
as a result of pressure from
the armed forces. Later that month, a new coalition headed by Motherland
Party leader Mesut
Y.lmaz was formed together with the Democratic Left Party and Democratic
Turkey Party. State
of emergency legislation was lifted in three provinces in October, but
remained in force in six
provinces of the southeast, where the 13-year conflict between
government forces and armed
members of the Kurdish Workers' Party (PKK) claimed the lives of 6,000
people, including
civilians, during the year.
Trade unionists, students and demonstrators were frequently taken into
custody at peaceful public
meetings or at their organizations' offices, and were held in police
detention for hours or days
because of their non-violent political activities. <p>
The trial under Article 8 of the Anti-Terror Law, which outlaws any
advocacy of “separatism”, of
184 members of Turkey's literary and cultural elite for publishing a
book entitled <i>Freedom of
Thought (see Amnesty International Report 1997) was halted in October
under the terms of a law
which suspended judicial proceedings against editors for three years.
Other articles of the Turkish Penal Code (TPC) were also used against
writers, journalists and
political activists whose statements criticized the Turkish state. In
June the writer and lawyer
Ahmet Zeki Okçuo©lu was imprisoned under Article 159 of the
TPC for “insulting the institutions
of the state”, after the Supreme Court upheld a 10-month sentence
handed down in 1993 by
Istanbul Criminal Court No. 2 for his article published in the newspaper
<i>Azadi</i> (Freedom). He was
released in October. The trials under Article 159 continued against
Münir Ceylan, a trade
unionist; Ercan Kanar, president of the Istanbul branch of the Turkish
Human Rights Association
(HRA); and Óanar Yurdatapan, spokesperson for the Together for
Peace initiative (see Amnesty
International Report 1997</i>). They had publicly accused the Chief of
General Staff of covering up
the Güçlükonak massacre, in which state forces allegedly
detained and killed 11 civilians and
village guards. The security forces presented the killings as having
been committed by the PKK.
Prisoners of conscience Hatip Dicle, Orhan Do©an, Selim Sadak and
Leyla Zana, former
parliamentary deputies for the Democracy Party, continued to serve
15-year sentences, imposed
in 1994 for alleged membership of the PKK, at Ankara Closed Prison. No
conclusive evidence was
presented to support the charges against them during the course of a
blatantly unfair trial and they
appeared to have been imprisoned because of their criticism of state
policy in the predominantly
Kurdish southeastern provinces. <p>
People expressing political beliefs from an Islamic point of view were
also held as prisoners of
conscience. Former parliamentary deputy Hasan Mezarc. was serving an
18-month sentence
imposed in 1996 under Law 5816 for insulting Mustafa Kemal Atatürk,
founder of the Turkish
Republic. He was released in October. In April members of the Aczmendi
religious order
detained in October 1996 were sentenced to prison terms by Ankara State
Security Court (SSC)
for appearing in public in Ankara in turbans and cloaks _ garments which
contravened the Dress
and Hat Laws instituted by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. Ilyas Eldi, Yakup
AkkuÒ, Ahmet Arslan,
Ömer Faruk, Bülent Baykal, and Servet Dündar were
sentenced to four years' imprisonment after
conviction under Article 7/1 of the Anti-Terror Law for “membership
of an organization founded
to transform the Republic by means of intimidation or threats.” In
fact, the Aczmendi order does
not advocate violence. Another 110 Aczmendi defendants received
sentences of three years'
imprisonment.
The HRA was subjected to intense harassment. Three branches were shut
down including the
Diyarbak.r branch, which was closed on the grounds that “its
activities threaten the unity of the
state.” Aziz Durmaz, president of the Óanl.urfa branch, was
detained and reportedly tortured in
June. He was committed to prison on apparently bogus charges of
membership of an armed
organization. He was a prisoner of conscience. Aziz Durmaz was released
in November.<p>
Turkey does not recognize the right of conscientious objection to
military service and there is no
provision for alternative civilian service. In January the General Staff
Military Court in Ankara
sentenced Osman Murat Ülke, chairperson of the Izmir War Resisters'
Association (ISKD) (see
Amnesty International Report), to six months' imprisonment and a fine
for “alienating the
public from the institution of military service” by publicly
declaring his conscientious objection
and burning his call-up papers in 1995. In February the General Staff
Military Court opened a
new trial against Osman Murat Ülke and a further 11 defendants from
the HRA and ISKD on
charges of alienating the public from the institution of military
service” in speeches that they had
given during Human Rights Week in 1995. Osman Murat Ülke was
conditionally released in
May, but was rearrested in October at EskiÒehir Military Court
after being convicted of
persistent insubordination, for which he received a five-month prison
sentence, and desertion
for which he received a further five-month sentence. <p>
In March detention procedures were amended for people held under the
Anti-Terror Law (which
includes non-violent offences). The Turkish Government announced this as
a measure to combat
torture. The new law shortened the maximum terms of police detention
from 30 to 10 days in
provinces under state of emergency legislation, and from 14 to seven
days throughout the rest of
the country. The new provisions were a substantial <p>
improvement but still failed to meet international standards. The law
provides for four days'
incommunicado detention, described by the European Committee for the
Prevention of Torture
and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment as
“unacceptable”. Incommunicado
detention is widely recognized as being conducive to torture.<p>
The revised detention procedures appeared to have some inhibiting effect
on the practice of
torture. Nevertheless, there were many well-documented reports of
torture by police and
gendarmes (soldiers carrying out police duties, mainly in rural areas)
in many parts of the
country. Male and female detainees frequently complained that they were
sexually assaulted. The
victims included those detained for common criminal offences as well as
for offences under the
Anti-Terror Law. Children and juveniles were again among the victims.
Sixteen-year-old Murat
Yi©it reported that he was tortured at a police station in Ankara
while detained in January. He
stated that he was blindfolded and stripped naked, drenched with cold
water, beaten on the soles
of his feet and given electric shocks to his penis and feet by police
officers who wanted him to
sign a confession to a series of burglaries. He was later released
without charge. A medical report
issued by Ankara Forensic Medicine Institute recorded injuries
consistent with his statement. <p>
Hatun Temuzalp, a reporter for a left-wing journal, stated that she was
tortured while held for
interrogation at Istanbul Police Headquarters for seven days during
March. Police officers
insulted and threatened her, and pulled some of her clothes off. Her<i>
</i>arms were tightly bound to a
wooden bar and two people grabbed her, lifted her onto a chair, hung her
up, and pulled the chair
away. This happened repeatedly. After a period of intense pain she
started to lose consciousness.
A radiography report indicated a fractured shoulder blade. When brought
before a judge, Hatun
Temuzalp made a complaint of torture. She was released, but her
interrogators were not
prosecuted.
In a judgment in September the European Court of Human Rights found that
Turkish security
forces had tortured Óükran Ayd.n while she was detained at
Derik Gendarmerie Headquarters in
Mardin in 1993. She was 17 years old at the time. The Court found that
Óükran Ayd.n had been
raped, paraded naked in humiliating circumstances and beaten, and that
the Turkish authorities
had failed to conduct an adequate investigation into her complaint. The
Court ordered the Turkish
Government to pay kran Ayd.n compensation of approximately US$41,000
There were at least six deaths in custody apparently as a result of
torture. Fettah Kaya died at
Aksaray Police Station in May, after being detained by vice-squad
officers at the music hall
where he worked. Police authorities reportedly claimed that the
23-year-old man had died of a
heart attack, but a detainee who was in custody with him stated that
both of them had been
tortured by police, who struck them with sandbags. <p>
At least nine people were reported to have “disappeared” in
the custody of police or soldiers. In
February witnesses saw four armed men, apparently plainclothes police
officers, stop Fikri zgen
outside his house in Diyarbak.r, check his identity and drive him away.
His family made inquiries
with all the relevant authorities, who denied that he was detained. In
common with several other
victims of disappearance&, Fikrizgen had relatives reported to have PKK connections.
At least 20 people were reported to be victims of political killings,
many of which may have been
extrajudicial executions. In January Murat Akman was killed during a
house raid in Savur,
Mardin province, shortly after two security force officers had been
killed by the PKK. According
to a family member who witnessed the killing, members of the Special
Operations Team (a
special heavily armed police force unit) came to the door, asking for
Murat Akman. When he
appeared and showed his identity card, they opened fire, killing him
instantly. The family made
an official complaint, but by the end of the year those responsible for
the killing had not been
brought to justice.
The forcible return to their country of origin of recognized refugees
and asylum-seekers,
including Iraqi and Iranian nationals, continued throughout the year. On
several occasions,
Amnesty International expressed grave concern to the Turkish Government
about these
<i>refoulements</i>. No response was received.<p>
For the 13th consecutive year there were no judicial executions,
although courts continued to pass
death sentences.
Armed separatist, leftist and Islamist organizations were responsible
for at least 13 deliberate and
arbitrary killings of civilians and prisoners. Armed members of the PKK
were allegedly
responsible for at least 10 of the killings. According to reports, in
July PKK members killed
Mehmet zdemir at village, near Eruh in Siirt province, and also abducted Abdullah
TeymurtaÒ from the same village before killing him. In October
Merka Akay was taken from her
home in Nusaybin, Mardin province, and strangled by PKK members. The
Turkish Workers and
Peasants' Army (TIKKO) reportedly claimed responsibility for the killing
in June of Devrim
Yasemin Ïld.rten and Behzat Y.ld.r.m in Istanbul, claiming that
they were “traitors and
collaborators”. The Islamic Raiders of the Great East_Front claimed
responsibility for the
bombing of a sewage treatment plant in Istanbul in June. Mehmet
Óahin Duran, a worker at the
plant, was wounded in the blast and subsequently died of his injuries.
Amnesty International
condemned these grave abuses and publicly called on armed opposition
groups to ensure that
their members were instructed to respect international humanitarian law
and human rights
standards.
Throughout the year Amnesty International appealed for the release of
prisoners of conscience
and urged the government to initiate prompt and independent
investigations into allegations of
torture, extrajudicial executions and “disappearances”.
Reports published during the year
included <i>Turkey: Refoulement of non-European refugees _ a protection crisis.</i><p>
Amnesty International delegates observed several trial hearings,
including the January hearing in
the trial at Izmir SSC of a group of juveniles who had been tortured at
Manisa Police Headquarters
in 1996 and subsequently accused of membership of an armed organization,
and the final hearing
in May of a trial at Adana Primary Court in which Dr Tufan Köse, an
employee of a rehabilitation
centre for torture victims, was sentenced to a fine for refusing to give
officials access to treatment
records.
The irresponsibility of the Turkish authorities created the climate for
the shooting on 12 May of Ak2n Birdal, President of the Turkish Human
Rights Association (HRA) Ak2n Birdal was wounded by six bullets from the
guns of two assailants who entered the headquarters of the association
in Ankara.
The authorities have not only consistently failed to investigate
or condemn earlier fatal attacks on officials of the association, but
the judicial authorities had apparently contrived to leak spurious but
highly dangerous allegations about Ak2n Birdal. These were contained in
confessions alleged to have been made by a former military commander of
the Kurdish Workers’ Party (PKK) recently taken prisoner by the security
forces. Although Turkish law provides that evidence collected during
preliminary investigation is secret, these statements, which cited Ak2n
Birdal as well as numerous other prominent personalities critical of the
government as being implicated as having actively supported the PKK,
were given enormous publicity.
While Ak2n Birdal was struggling very close to death the Prime
Minister Mesut Yilmaz compounded the offence by describing the attack as
an "internal dispute" among people connected with the PKK. In fact,
seven men close to right wing political groups -- one of them a
gendarmerie officer -- were shortly afterwards arrested and charged with
planning and carrying out the attempted killing.
This report is an extract from the Amnesty International
Report 1998 and is copyright (c) Amnesty International Publications.
You may not alter
this information, repost or sell it without the permission of Amnesty
International. The
complete edition of the Report, covering more than 140 countries and
territories,is published in
several languages and is available from aisect/contactsAmnesty
International sections </a>or, in case of difficulty, from the
International Secretariat.
Additional places where you can purchase copies of the Annual Report can
be found
here
Satisfied you Tooooorko?
Nicolas Krinis
Nevzat Akdemir
do you expect?
nevzat
Nick Krinis
Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
>
> The head AI man is a Greek, what
> do you expect?
>
> nevzat
What, are you disputing these claims?
You are the personification of dense.
Nicolas Krinis
Nevzat Akdemir
Get lost Olive Oil!
PopeEye --More spinach to Turks and All Others.
Nick Krinis wrote:
> Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
> >
> > The head AI man is a Greek, what
> > do you expect?
> >
> > nevzat
>
Kritifile
Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36FFE350...@bellsouth.net>...
>
>
>Kritifile wrote:.......
>
>
>> >the proof taken from daily newspapers. I am sure you read them
too.
>> There
>> >is
>> >no such thing as absolute, utopic free speech. There are nuanses.
>> >
>>
>> Not in the UK unless one is giving away state secrets or the
country
>> is at war. This is true for all free countries. Of course the
security
>> of the state comes first when it is at risk. The question is, how
>> secure is the state? How safe does it feel? Can it survive without
>> repression?
>
>I am sure in the UK also Anna. Some does it openly some does it
>under the table. Also England feels much more secure than Turkey
>itself, having all the modern technology to built modern weapons.
>Look at Greece, what happened that woman with apo gave a speech
>about lame side of the Greek Government, a lot of people pulled back
>their support for PKK. So, Greeks were not feeling pretty secure that
>day were they? Imagine the constant fight, exploding bombs in Turkey,
>how do you think they should feel? Secure?
>
In Britain the average person feels more secure than he did a year
ago, when a bomb could explode anywhere. The IRA planted very big
bombs in places to produce the largest number of civilian casualties.
Go to any public place, especially in a city, and you could get blown
up. Officially that is over now, no more bombs in England, only a few
killings in Ireland. But, as always, there are two sides, divided by
race and religion. Thanks to the British government going to the
negotiating table and being prepared to reach a political settlement,
things have improved greatly. Certainly better than when British
special forces killed terrorists and civilians were killed in
retaliation (does that sound familiar). Of course there are sections
of every state that does not abide by the rules. That section is
probably smaller here than in many countries, in spit of having no
legal bill of rights. Britain having all that technology to build
weapons? The most expensive, most complicated and most powerful are
American, same as in Turkey. Greece cannot feel secure when being
threatened by Turkey. How can any country feel secure when under
constant threat from another?
>>
>>
>> >In Turkey seperatism is a crime punishable by law.
>>
>> In democratic countries it is only a felony if the separatists take
up
>> arms and resort to violence against the state. This has happened in
>> Britain, in Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
>
>It is a felony in Turkey too. They did not apply the capital
punishment
>since early 1980s. All they are getting is jail terms. Btw. one of
the
>woman terrorists, while in jail, applied for a sex change to be a
man.
>They moved her (him right now I guess) close to a city which has an
>univ. hospital and the Turkish Government took up the costs. (The law
>requires that any medical expenses will be paid by the state.) Eh,
>wouldn't
>you call this, at least, being very close to a perfect democratic
state?
>Those in the government in Turkey are not monsters as much as some
>circles like to label them.
>
One of the worst punishments is imprisonment. As for the sex change,
what has that to do with it? Trying to show that Turkey gives
prisoners the same rights as Britain and America? I'm sure that not
all in the Turkish government are monsters, but I have this nasty
feeling that the best are either dead or imprisoned. Do not forget the
power of the military.
What exactly did he say? I would require proof of that to be able to
comment on differrences in treatment.
>>
>>
>> >Anyway he got 8 months in jail term and will be out in 4 months.
They
>> did
>> >not
>> >drop a napalm bomb on his residency and burned him up with his
family
>> >like happened in some "civilized" Western countries.
>> >
>>
>> That does not happen in civilized countries. There is always a
lunatic
>> fringe, but that is not representative of the state. In fact, the
>> opposite is true, to do that would be a felony.
>
>Well I have seen an incident like that in one of the civilized
countries.
>A chopper dropped a mini napalm bomb thru the smoke stack and
>about 40 people got killed, including children and women.
>I rather not to give the name of that country or make any more
remarks
>about it. But this was happened in the past and it was a state
operation.
>
I'll ask nothing about that then.
>You are talking in broad terms, I am saying I saw it. Think about
that.
>
I'm inclined to believe you. That is why I will say no more.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >But Anna is still screaming about free speech. Wonder why?
>> >
>>
>> See above.
>
>Ok. now it is your turn. see above.
>
I've had my turn. Sorry it is short. I've run out of time for now.
Anna
Nevzat Akdemir
Kritifile wrote:
Britain and Turkey two different cultures. I have been trying to tell
you this expecting you would understand one day.
You wouldn't want every country be exact copy of each other, would you?
PKK and IRA two different background organizations. Their motives are
different.
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> >In Turkey seperatism is a crime punishable by law.
> >>
> >> In democratic countries it is only a felony if the separatists take
> up
> >> arms and resort to violence against the state. This has happened in
> >> Britain, in Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
> >
> >It is a felony in Turkey too. They did not apply the capital
> punishment
> >since early 1980s. All they are getting is jail terms. Btw. one of
> the
> >woman terrorists, while in jail, applied for a sex change to be a
> man.
> >They moved her (him right now I guess) close to a city which has an
> >univ. hospital and the Turkish Government took up the costs. (The law
> >requires that any medical expenses will be paid by the state.) Eh,
> >wouldn't
> >you call this, at least, being very close to a perfect democratic
> state?
> >Those in the government in Turkey are not monsters as much as some
> >circles like to label them.
> >
>
> One of the worst punishments is imprisonment.
To you perhaps.
> As for the sex change,
> what has that to do with it? Trying to show that Turkey gives
> prisoners the same rights as Britain and America?
Noone trying to show anything. Why do you always see the glass
half full instead of half empty when it comes to Turkey?
Being a Greek living in England doesn't give you that right, you know.
> I'm sure that not
> all in the Turkish government are monsters, but I have this nasty
> feeling that the best are either dead or imprisoned. Do not forget the
> power of the military.
Your feelings are always nasty.
Because you are a nasty person!
That is what he said. Exactly.
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> >Anyway he got 8 months in jail term and will be out in 4 months.
> They
> >> did
> >> >not
> >> >drop a napalm bomb on his residency and burned him up with his
> family
> >> >like happened in some "civilized" Western countries.
> >> >
> >>
> >> That does not happen in civilized countries. There is always a
> lunatic
> >> fringe, but that is not representative of the state. In fact, the
> >> opposite is true, to do that would be a felony.
> >
> >Well I have seen an incident like that in one of the civilized
> countries.
> >A chopper dropped a mini napalm bomb thru the smoke stack and
> >about 40 people got killed, including children and women.
> >I rather not to give the name of that country or make any more
> remarks
> >about it. But this was happened in the past and it was a state
> operation.
> >
>
> I'll ask nothing about that then.
>
> >You are talking in broad terms, I am saying I saw it. Think about
> that.
> >
>
> I'm inclined to believe you. That is why I will say no more.
Ok. I always say you are good, sometimes.
ozanthebozan
WHAT ARE YOU GUYS TRYING TO DO? YOU THINK ONE SIDE IS GOING TO OVERCOME IN
THE END? STOP REWRITING HISTORY FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW AND ADMIT THE FACT
THAT:
-ANATOLIA DOESNT BELONG TO ONE OF THESE NATIONS. IT DOESNT MATTER WHO THE
HELL RULES THE LAND NOW. ANATOLIA IS STILL GREEK. ANATOLIA IS STILL ROMAN.
ANATOLIA IS STILL TURK. ANATOLIAN CULTURE IS A MIXTURE OF ALL THE CULTURES
THAT ONCE LIVED ON IT.
-AEGEAN SEA DOESNT BELONG TO GREECE ONLY AND IT DOESNT BELONG TO TURKEY
ONLY. BOTH COUNTRIES HAVE RIGHT ON THE SEA. NOBODY OWNES THE SEA. THE SEA IS
NATURE. NOBODY CAN SAY THE SEA IS HIS PROPERTY. IF THIS GOES ON LIKE THAT,
THEN UNITED STATES AND RUSSIA WILL OWN ALL THE SPACE ABOVE EARTH BECAUSE
THEY HAVE FUCKING SPACESHIPS! BULLSHIT! DO YOU OWN THE AIR ABOVE YOUR HOUSE?
DO YOU OWN THE SEA IN FRONT OF YOUR VILLA?
-GREEKS ARE NOT TURKISH-ORIGINED AND VICE VERSA. OF COURSE THERE IS GOING TO
BE PEOPLE WITH BOTH BLOODS, BOTH NATIONS HAVE BEEN LIVING ON THIS LAND FOR
CENTURIES.
-GENOCIDES IN THE PAST WERE NEVER ONE SIDED. TURKS KILLED GREEKS IN 74 JUST
LIKE MAKARIOS LED THE GREEKS TO KILL THE TURKS BEFORE. AND TWO SIDED
GENOCIDE STILL GOES ON. AND A NOTE ABOUT THE ARMENIANS: THEY WERE FORCED OUT
OF ANATOLIA AND SOME OF THEM WERE KILLED BECAUSE THEY WERE TERRORIZING THE
REGION.
-BOTH STATES HAVE TO CHANGE THEIR POLICIES AND STOP BEING ENEMIES. FORGET
ABDULLAH OCALAN AND FORGET EVERYTHING. I DONT THINK ANY GREEK BROTHER WOULD
SUPPORT HIM IF HE HAD SEEN WHAT OCALAN HAD DONE. WE DONT KNOW EACH OTHER
WELL.. YET..
FINALLY YOU ALL ARE FOOLS BECAUSE YOU ARE PLAYING THIS GAME WITH THE
POLITICIANS' RULES. THEY WANT YOU TO FIGHT BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THEY ARE GOING
TO GET VOTES! YOU STUPIDS! WHY ARE YOU KEEPING THIS SHIT GOING ON? THE NEXT
MILLENIUM HAS ALMOST COME AND YOU GUYS ARE STILL BLAMING EACH OTHER! ONE
SAYS TURKS WERE RAIDERS FROM MONGOLIA ASSIMILATED BY GREEKS, THE OTHER
MENTIONS MAKARIOS, THEN IT COMES TO 74, THEN IT COMES TO ARMENIANS, AND THIS
FUCKING LOOP GOES ON!
WHO WINS, FOR GOD'S SAKE?
STOP IT!
STOP BEING FASCISTS!
STOP TRYING TO OVERCOME ON THIS NEVERENDING FIGHT!
STOP THIS WAR!
WE MUST BE BROTHERS! THINK ABOUT HOW CLOSE THE TWO CULTURES ARE! THE TWO
NATIONS CAN BE REAL CLOSE FRIENDS IF THEY CAN OVERCOME THIS STUPID FIGHT!
STOP LOOKING AT THE MAP OF AEGEAN SEA AND DREAMING OF RULING THE OPPOSITE
SIDE! LOOK AT EUROPE, LOOK AT THE WORLD AND THEN LOOK AT THE PLANET AS
AWHOLE! HOW DIFFERENT CAN WE BE?
IF YOU KEEP THIS STUPID GODDAM FIGHT GOING ON IT IS YOUR SONS WHO ARE GOING
TO GET KILLED IN THE NEXT WAR! YOUR DAUGHTER IS GOING TO BE RAPED, PERHAPS
YOUR WIFE, OR MOTHER! STOP IT! STOP BEING ENEMIES!
I AM A TURK AND I LOVE GREEKS! AND I AM SURE IF WE OVERCOME THIS STUPID SHIT
WE ARE GOING TO BE PERFECT FRIENDS!
OZAN
ISTANBUL
A VARTAN MAMIKONIAN
How many people think like you in turkey ? 10 % ?
There is 90 % of nationalists who think exactly the contrary of you.
How do you want greeks, kurds, syrians, russians, armenians, iraqians to
feel love for turkey ?
It would be possible if people like you represented 60 to 70 %. Meanwhile,
we must try to avoid others Cypruses.
ozanthebozan <ozanth...@pemail.net> a écrit dans l'article
<37028...@alpha2.superonline.com>...
Elias Mavrommati
would and could be friends with anybody and everybody, including me.
But............
Unfortunatly you are a minority.
You see , we are used to reading the postings from the likes of Turcoman
(Probably Denktash or one of his cronies !) or have experienced the wrath of
the Turkish Airforce in 74 (personally, as a 10 year old) and consequently
find it difficult to form a good opinion about Turkey. Although most of the
Turkish people I have met I get on extremely well with just like most of the
Greek people I have met.
In an ideal world, everybody should get on with everybody, but that wouldn't
be profitable for some people, like the USA for instance !!!
Also, You are right about the fact that genocides were not exclusive to one
side only. Its the side with the might that does the most killing though.
The Greeks were the side with the might for a very brief amount of time (for
as long as the Western European superpowers of the day allowed) in the early
part of this century, and did their fair share of killing! Without wishing
to condone such activity, its probably due to the fact that in their
fervour, in shaking off the represive occupation regime of the previous 400
or so years, they wrongly took it out on the population. However, Turkey was
powerfull for a much longer period and hence did much more killing!
In any case, from a personal point of view, I would find it much easier to
forgive, forget and even to love, if I was able to return to my home which I
was forcibly removed from some 25 years ago.
So you see , as long as the problem exists, our peoples will forever be
"playing in the hands of the politicians".
And so will our sons, our daughters, our grandchildren, our whole
families....... for ever!
How do we "overcome this stupid shit" ? Easy. Denktash (aka Turcoman) and
the Turkish military should stop brainwashing the Turkish population about
how nasty and expansionist their Greek neighbours are and sit down at the
negotiating table and negotiate peace!!! For our part ? We are a simple
people with simple values. All we want is La Dolce Vita, our homes ,good
neighbours and peace. Not a peace of Turkey! Then we could really enjoy and
appreciate each others friendship.
Best regards
Elias
ozanthebozan wrote in message <37028...@alpha2.superonline.com>...
The rest was snipped.
Christos
Turky is the country that asks border changes in Eagean sea not Greece.
By the way if USA wants borders change than HALF EUROPE AND ASIA Belongs to
GREECE (Alexander the great's Country)
Ο ozanthebozan έγραψε στο μήνυμα <37028...@alpha2.superonline.com>...
ok...@yahoo.com
"Elias Mavrommati" <el...@fairview25.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Couldn't agree with you more Ozan. You sound like tha kind of person that
> would and could be friends with anybody and everybody, including me.
> But............
>
> Unfortunatly you are a minority.
How you say that? Minority? Maybe yes! But those extremists are also minority.
The rest, majority are just simple people trying to live on. Is there any
difference in Greece, or in the world?
>
> You see , we are used to reading the postings from the likes of Turcoman
He is minority too, unfortunately those that are full of hatred always sound
louder.
> (Probably Denktash or one of his cronies !) or have experienced the wrath of
> the Turkish Airforce in 74 (personally, as a 10 year old) and consequently
> find it difficult to form a good opinion about Turkey. Although most of the
You are simply supporting Ozan here. I am deeply sorry for your experience,
however there are lots of Cypriot Turks feel the same way you do (you sound
like a man knowing a bit of history). Somebody wanted a conflict, and that
was achieved. Lots of innocent people suffered. Is it any difference if Turks
or Greeks had to suffer?
> Turkish people I have met I get on extremely well with just like most of the
> Greek people I have met.
> In an ideal world, everybody should get on with everybody, but that wouldn't
> be profitable for some people, like the USA for instance !!!
Quite right! Apart from those living peacefully in Istanbul, I've met only two
Greeks, one from Cyprus, we quickly became good friends.
>
> Also, You are right about the fact that genocides were not exclusive to one
> side only. Its the side with the might that does the most killing though.
> The Greeks were the side with the might for a very brief amount of time (for
> as long as the Western European superpowers of the day allowed) in the early
> part of this century, and did their fair share of killing! Without wishing
> to condone such activity, its probably due to the fact that in their
> fervour, in shaking off the represive occupation regime of the previous 400
> or so years, they wrongly took it out on the population. However, Turkey was
> powerfull for a much longer period and hence did much more killing!
Does that make a difference?
>
> In any case, from a personal point of view, I would find it much easier to
> forgive, forget and even to love, if I was able to return to my home which I
> was forcibly removed from some 25 years ago.
Are you accusing "just" Turks here? You (we) have a much bigger problem than
Denktash here preventing you to go back home.
>
> So you see , as long as the problem exists, our peoples will forever be
> "playing in the hands of the politicians".
> And so will our sons, our daughters, our grandchildren, our whole
> families....... for ever!
>
> How do we "overcome this stupid shit" ? Easy. Denktash (aka Turcoman) and
> the Turkish military should stop brainwashing the Turkish population about
> how nasty and expansionist their Greek neighbours are and sit down at the
> negotiating table and negotiate peace!!! For our part ? We are a simple
Let me tell you a story: A friend of mine and his wife (a Turk family) spent
their honeymoon on a Greek island a couple of years ago. Somewhere they met
an ordinary Greek woman to have a chat, and when they said they were coming
from Turkey, the woman (luckily) misunderstood them as being from Europe and
having visited Turkey just before coming to Greece. And she (an ordinary
Greek woman) told them horrorfull stories about barbaric Turkish people,
saying that they were lucky to escape without getting hurt. It was the time
my friends decided not to tell anyone they are Turk. The moral of the story?
Not just genocide but everything is a two way street, including brainwashing.
I am watching this ng for over a year, I always wanted to post something like
Ozan's, but I feared it would be lost in the midst of all that fury. Maybe
we're all making a mistake here, leaving the ground to others letting them
sound loud.
Final word: If you promise me to find that Greek woman and tell her most of
the Turks are actually nice and peaceful, I promise to help you to go back
home.
Okan
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Abdullah
very few people. If these people hate each other, it's their misery, and they've
got the right to be miserable. But they just don't have the right to pollute and
exploit what they share with everybody: the usenet. I personally am not fond of
Greeks, nor do I hate them. It's more or less equally valid for any nation. I
think it should be equally valid for an ordinary Greek person. But, because of
those hate-machines, ordinary people do not visit here so much. This is (also
Greek groups) a channel between us and other people around the world, and we are
allowing a minority to render it useless for nothing. Bravo!
8 years ago I was touring around Italy and Greece by bicycle, and I was able to
meet quite a few people there. Yes, I would agree that there must be _some_
brainwashing by Greek government, because most of the people I have met was
really warm and reasonable ones till I say that I was coming from Turkey. Then,
some of them was showing outright hatred to me, with whom they were getting along
quite well just a few seconds before. One of them asked me..
- So you are strong? (meaning my cycling around)
I said "No why, it's fun!"
He said "I think you are bist" (meaning a beast)
Another time I was staying at a hotel run by an old lady, who was unfortunate
enough to accept me before seeing my passport. At check-out time she was waiting
for me, her face in an agitation of hatred, mouth twitching, saying
some-not-very-nice-things that I don't understand. She was being stopped from
what she was supposed to do, by two other people also working there.
There are quite a few more examples. These are what I usually had to receive from
Greek people.
But there were others too. Some -albeit not as mush as others- of them were
especially warmer and more friendly when they learn that I'm a Turk.
To the best of my knowledge no one would be shown that kind of explicit and
undisguiseable hatred in Turkey when they say they are Greek. I don't get
offended. But it shows me that governments should stop selling hate and fear for
votes. It is a filthy kind of commerce! And it produces those few miserable
puppets who pollute their own life with hatred themselves, and pollute here.
Afterburner
dejanews.com>:
>- So you are strong? (meaning my cycling around)
>I said "No why, it's fun!"
>He said "I think you are bist" (meaning a beast)
Is this serious? You talked to someone who could barely speak English and
had such a profound dialogue?
>To the best of my knowledge no one would be shown that kind of explicit
and
>undisguiseable hatred in Turkey when they say they are Greek.
They just did some ethnic cleansing in 1955.
A. Sinan Tuzun
Christos <zoubouli-@hotmail-.com-> wrote in message
news:7efffs$ctb$1...@ns1.otenet.gr...
> Let's clear something out:
> Turky is the country that asks border changes in Eagean sea not Greece.
Listen mate , YOUR politicians lies to YOU!!! Turkey doesn't want any
changes in Aegean, all we want to keep the borders and situation like NOW.
Your politicians tries to change Greek borders and water rights in Aegean.
First 6 miles of the sea from its shore is belongs that country and at the
moment Greece has right over %50 over Aegean, roughly %5 Turkey and the rest
is international. WE WANT TO KEEP IT LIKE THAT but your politicians wants 12
mile so %91 of Aegean will be Greek waters and just %7 for Turkey and 2% for
international! Come on tell me; is this fair? A 10 million population
country has more than %50 of a sea compare with 5% of a 65 million country
and thinks it is not enough and wants more!!!!
Listen mate we Turks are not like you; we DO NOT HATE FROM OUR GREEK
NEIGHBOURS BUT YOU SHOULD CONTROL YOUR OWN POLITICIANS. They don't have any
new ideas or politics, they are trying to get your votes with lots of bull
shit like Turks want to kill us or Turkey will attacks us etc... WE DID NOT
OR WILL NOT ATTACK TO ANY OUR NEIGHBOURS TILL THEY MESS WITH US. Please use
your logic and think just a bit ; if Turkey wants to occupy Greece it takes
only couple of days! It is not a Turkish propaganda or threat but it is pure
reality, it is just a size matter! Turkey's population is 6,5 TIMES more
that Greece, Army is roughly 10 TIMES (with lots of war experience and
training), economy is about same. WE ALL WANT TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOUR NOT A
DEADLY ENEMY . IT IS ALL YOUR CHOICE HOW DO YOU WANT TO SEE TURKEY ; A GOOD
FRIEND OR A DEADLY ENEMY!
Afterburner
<7er23u$slg$1...@newnews.global.net.uk>:
>
> Christos <zoubouli-@hotmail-.com-> wrote in message
> news:7efffs$ctb$1...@ns1.otenet.gr...
> > Let's clear something out:
> > Turky is the country that asks border changes in Eagean sea not Greece.
>
> Listen mate , YOUR politicians lies to YOU!!!
And what makes you think that Turkish politicians are better? Or that
American or British or whatever politicians are better?
Theodore
A. Sinan Tuzun wrote in message >
>Your politicians tries to change Greek borders and water rights in Aegean.
>First 6 miles of the sea from its shore is belongs that country and at the
>moment Greece has right over %50 over Aegean, roughly %5 Turkey and the
rest
>is international. WE WANT TO KEEP IT LIKE THAT but your politicians wants
12
>mile so %91 of Aegean will be Greek waters and just %7 for Turkey and 2%
for
>international! Come on tell me; is this fair?
Of course this is fair!! We have the right to do that! International laws
give us that right!
A 10 million population
>country has more than %50 of a sea compare with 5% of a 65 million country
>and thinks it is not enough and wants more!!!!
Do we owe anything to turks?? Do you think that we should just divide all
the Aegean Sea just because it will be then "fair"??? Are you serious??? We
used to own all the west Turkish shore some years ago!! (I don't think that
we should take it back of course!) But it shows that when a sea exists
between two countries that doesn't mean that these countries should divide
this to equal pieces!!Aegean Sea is ours because that's the way it is!
if Turkey wants to occupy Greece it takes
>only couple of days!
I DON;T THINK YOU ARE SERIOUS NOW! Damage to your country in case of an
attack will be A LOT greater than ours! I can explain why.
>training), economy is about same.
SAME?????? WITH 40% INFLATION YOU HAVE COMPARED TO OUR 5%???? HAHAHAHA!!
Ash
miles.
So its not your opinion that counts but the intrnational law. And by they way .
If you think you are right why
you don not accept the greek proposal to solve the case by the International Law
in Den Haag. Its clear
that even the turkish lawyers know they you will loose the case.
Even now your threateing to occupy Greece in couple of days. May I asked you
something . What bloody turkish
name are you going to give to the city of Athens after the occupation ?
"A. Sinan Tuzun" wrote:
> Christos <zoubouli-@hotmail-.com-> wrote in message
> news:7efffs$ctb$1...@ns1.otenet.gr...
> > Let's clear something out:
> > Turky is the country that asks border changes in Eagean sea not Greece.
>
> Listen mate , YOUR politicians lies to YOU!!! Turkey doesn't want any
> changes in Aegean, all we want to keep the borders and situation like NOW.
> Your politicians tries to change Greek borders and water rights in Aegean.
> First 6 miles of the sea from its shore is belongs that country and at the
> moment Greece has right over %50 over Aegean, roughly %5 Turkey and the rest
> is international. WE WANT TO KEEP IT LIKE THAT but your politicians wants 12
> mile so %91 of Aegean will be Greek waters and just %7 for Turkey and 2% for
> international! Come on tell me; is this fair? A 10 million population
> country has more than %50 of a sea compare with 5% of a 65 million country
> and thinks it is not enough and wants more!!!!
dimos psorofillias
this would not mean that everywhere would be a 12 mile zone
exitsting.
It's not in greece interest to bloc turkish industial centers from the access to
international waters, nor the court will decide in this direction.
A probable decision would be connected with compromises on both sides,
where there would be 12 mile zone for greece and of course for turkey
as it is in black sea and the meditarenian, but some greek island will
remain at the status quo, it is easily to see on a map which islands
are meant.
The shouldn't be to much fear from 'Den Hague', but as turkey hasn't
recognised to court as giving and finding rights institution until now,
it's up to turkey to do this.
However, it is not only the agean case which scares turkey to do so,
but the expected other international trials which would follow,
mightly on the disadvantage of turkey and turkey would have been
obliged to obbey the courts decisions.
Demosthenes
ellas69
with IMIA ?!
Perhaps the 160 islands that your government claimed belonged to turkey ?
WAS THAT NOT TURKSIH ATTEMPT FOR EXPANSION !?
REGARDS
ELLAS69
A. Sinan Tuzun <stu...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7er23u$slg$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
Nick Servos
> only couple of days! It is not a Turkish propaganda or threat but it is pure
> reality, it is just a size matter! Turkey's population is 6,5 TIMES more
> that Greece, Army is roughly 10 TIMES (with lots of war experience and
> training), economy is about same. WE ALL WANT TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOUR NOT A
> DEADLY ENEMY . IT IS ALL YOUR CHOICE HOW DO YOU WANT TO SEE TURKEY ; A GOOD
> FRIEND OR A DEADLY ENEMY!
turkey needs its military to guard many miles of hostile borders and it needs to
supress its own population. I would not go over extending myself, now. mountain
fighting is a bitch.
god save the serbs
niko
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
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Theodore
Ash wrote in message <3711B99...@euronet.nl>...
What bloody turkish
>name are you going to give to the city of Athens after the occupation ?
"Athenabul" maybe? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Einai entelws ilithioi oi Tourkalades telika! H mallon "BOUNTALADES"!! Einai
isws h monh leksh h opoia mporei na prosdiorisei ena ethnos
amfimonoshmanta!!!!!
Elias Mavrommati
ok...@yahoo.com wrote in message <7egbke$jed$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <7e66l2$mcr$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> "Elias Mavrommati" <el...@fairview25.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> Couldn't agree with you more Ozan. You sound like tha kind of person that
>> would and could be friends with anybody and everybody, including me.
>> But............
>>
>> Unfortunatly you are a minority.
>
>How you say that? Minority? Maybe yes! But those extremists are also
minority.
>The rest, majority are just simple people trying to live on. Is there any
>difference in Greece, or in the world?
There probably aren't any differences between the silent majorities in
Greece or anywhere in the world but it wasn't in Greece or anywhere in the
world that 300,000 Cypriots (200,000 Greeks + 100,000 Turks) lost their
homes. The Greeks fled their homes from the onslaought of the Turkish Army
and the Turks fled north from the fright of what might happen to them if
they stayed, beleiving their leaders calls of forming a Turkish Utopia.
>> You see , we are used to reading the postings from the likes of Turcoman
>
>He is minority too, unfortunately those that are full of hatred always
sound
>louder.
Yes, but people tend to hear the ones that make the most noise and rightly
or wrongly form their opinions from that.
>> (Probably Denktash or one of his cronies !) or have experienced the wrath
of
>> the Turkish Airforce in 74 (personally, as a 10 year old) and
consequently
>> find it difficult to form a good opinion about Turkey. Although most of
the
>
>You are simply supporting Ozan here. I am deeply sorry for your experience,
>however there are lots of Cypriot Turks feel the same way you do (you sound
>like a man knowing a bit of history). Somebody wanted a conflict, and that
>was achieved. Lots of innocent people suffered. Is it any difference if
Turks
>or Greeks had to suffer?
Absolutely no difference whatsoever, but as I explained before, it is from a
personal point of view that said that.
>Quite right! Apart from those living peacefully in Istanbul, I've met only
two
>Greeks, one from Cyprus, we quickly became good friends.
That is because you and your Cypriot friend are intelligent enough to make
up your own minds,
and have not been blinded by brainwashing.
>> Also, You are right about the fact that genocides were not exclusive to
one
>> side only. Its the side with the might that does the most killing though.
>> The Greeks were the side with the might for a very brief amount of time
(for
>> as long as the Western European superpowers of the day allowed) in the
early
>> part of this century, and did their fair share of killing! Without
wishing
>> to condone such activity, its probably due to the fact that in their
>> fervour, in shaking off the represive occupation regime of the previous
400
>> or so years, they wrongly took it out on the population. However, Turkey
was
>> powerfull for a much longer period and hence did much more killing!
>
>Does that make a difference?
No, not in the sense that you think. What I was trying to say was that if
(just an example) the Greeks killed 5000 Turks and the Turks killed 200000
Greeks there are bound to be many more Greeks who have in some way, directly
or indirectly, suffered and therefore view the Turks as barbarians or
murderers or whatever.
However, what I was trying to explain to Ozan was why people always bring up
the past.
Quote from Ozan "ONE SAYS TURKS WERE RAIDERS FROM MONGOLIA ASSIMILATED BY
GREEKS, THE OTHER MENTIONS MAKARIOS, THEN IT COMES TO 74, THEN IT COMES TO
ARMENIANS, AND THIS FUCKING LOOP GOES ON!"
How sad !!
>Are you accusing "just" Turks here? You (we) have a much bigger problem
than
>Denktash here preventing you to go back home.
Yes we do have a much bigger problem but I merly mentioned him as he is one
of the main protagonists of my problem and well known for being totally
anti-Greek. Admittedly it is not one sided as there are those from the
Greeks who blindly hate anything to do with Turks. Unfortunately, there will
always be those extremists from both sides who are too ignorant and not
intelligent enough so as to not allow themselves to be manipulated by the
politicians or other forces.
>> How do we "overcome this stupid shit" ? Easy. Denktash (aka Turcoman) and
>> the Turkish military should stop brainwashing the Turkish population
about
>> how nasty and expansionist their Greek neighbours are and sit down at the
>> negotiating table and negotiate peace!!! For our part ? We are a simple
>
>Let me tell you a story: A friend of mine and his wife (a Turk family)
spent
>their honeymoon on a Greek island a couple of years ago. Somewhere they met
>an ordinary Greek woman to have a chat, and when they said they were coming
>from Turkey, the woman (luckily) misunderstood them as being from Europe
and
>having visited Turkey just before coming to Greece. And she (an ordinary
>Greek woman) told them horrorfull stories about barbaric Turkish people,
>saying that they were lucky to escape without getting hurt. It was the time
>my friends decided not to tell anyone they are Turk. The moral of the
story?
>Not just genocide but everything is a two way street, including
brainwashing.
She may well have been brainwashed and wrongly believed that Turks are
barbarians or she could have been talking of her personal experiences,
whatever the reason it was very ignorant of her to voice her hate to an
inocent tourist. My sympathy to your friend.
>I am watching this ng for over a year, I always wanted to post something
like
>Ozan's, but I feared it would be lost in the midst of all that fury. Maybe
>we're all making a mistake here, leaving the ground to others letting them
>sound loud.
I urge everybody who feels like you to voice their feelings and let the
ignorant assholes(you know who you are) shout from the rooftops. Just treat
them with the contemt that they deserve and ignore them, maybe they'll go
away!!!
>Final word: If you promise me to find that Greek woman and tell her most of
>the Turks are actually nice and peaceful, I promise to help you to go back
>home.
I appreciate your gesture but I think that you have set me an impossible
task (as I don't know who she is), but what I will promise you is that I
personally try my best to explain to people that they should judge a person
as a person and not as a Turk or a Greek or whatever.
Regards
Elias.
TRUTH
dimos psorofillias schrieb:
> > something . What bloody turkish
> > name are you going to give to the city of Athens after the occupation ?
> >
> > "A. Sinan Tuzun" wrote:
> >
> > > Christos <zoubouli-@hotmail-.com-> wrote in message
> > > news:7efffs$ctb$1...@ns1.otenet.gr...
> > > > Let's clear something out:
> > > > Turky is the country that asks border changes in Eagean sea not Greece.
> > >
> > > Listen mate , YOUR politicians lies to YOU!!! Turkey doesn't want any
> > > changes in Aegean, all we want to keep the borders and situation like NOW.
> > > Your politicians tries to change Greek borders and water rights in Aegean.
> > > First 6 miles of the sea from its shore is belongs that country and at the
> > > moment Greece has right over %50 over Aegean, roughly %5 Turkey and the rest
> > > is international. WE WANT TO KEEP IT LIKE THAT but your politicians wants 12
> > > mile so %91 of Aegean will be Greek waters and just %7 for Turkey and 2% for
> > > international! Come on tell me; is this fair? A 10 million population
> > > country has more than %50 of a sea compare with 5% of a 65 million country
> > > and thinks it is not enough and wants more!!!!
> > > Listen mate we Turks are not like you; we DO NOT HATE FROM OUR GREEK
> > > NEIGHBOURS BUT YOU SHOULD CONTROL YOUR OWN POLITICIANS. They don't have any
> > > new ideas or politics, they are trying to get your votes with lots of bull
> > > shit like Turks want to kill us or Turkey will attacks us etc... WE DID NOT
> > > OR WILL NOT ATTACK TO ANY OUR NEIGHBOURS TILL THEY MESS WITH US. Please use
> > > your logic and think just a bit ; if Turkey wants to occupy Greece it takes
TRUTH
dimos psorofillias
Theodore
TRUTH wrote in message <371404AD...@satan.com>...
>BLA BLA BLA - 6 MILES ONLY OR THE WAR!
GO FUCK YOURSELF IDIOT!!! DECLARE A WAR TO US IF YOU DARE TURKISH SLUTS!!
A. Haluk Oztiryaki
for it. We payed for everything we have with our blood. Therefore if Greeks
want it so much, they will pay for it. It is very expensive in this
millenium. How much costs greek blood? Do you have enough blood to pay for
things you want?
Stay in piece
Blood is very precious, even if it is greek
Ahmet Haluk Öztiryaki
dimos psorofillias
Demosthenes
"A. Haluk Oztiryaki" wrote:
> Ahmet Haluk Φztiryaki
Idirect News
will go to war and die for a few fucking miles of water and Goat islands.
I have better things to do in life.
John_ Toronto Canada
A. Sinan Tuzun <stu...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7er23u$slg$1...@newnews.global.net.uk...
>
Ali Sinan Tuzun
Idirect News <a...@def.com> wrote in message
news:371b...@nemo.idirect.com...
Ali Sinan Tuzun
LOL...HE SAYS "DARE"!!!...LOL...If we do that you will run away to America
in the second minute probobly you VERY BRAVE greek mate...oh, ofcourse your
brave army will follow you...:)))))))))
Theodore
Ali Sinan Tuzun wrote in message <7flsqt$o5l$1...@gxsn.com>...
>LOL...HE SAYS "DARE"!!!...LOL...If we do that you will run away to America
>in the second minute probobly you VERY BRAVE greek mate...oh, ofcourse your
>brave army will follow you...:)))))))))
Our brave army has a different opinion I think! Just go a short trip to our
borders in Kipi.You will see for yourself how your "brave" Turkish soldiers
get in panic when Greek soldiers are just testing their guns shoting in the
air! It's a real comedy...There is an alert for Turks even when a Greek
soldier farts!You are really funny!...and ridicilus...
Nevzat Akdemir
Theodore wrote:
Yes there is such alert. But not only Turks. For every nation.
Too much olive oil and feta cheese won't agree with your sand-nigger bowels.
Result is a form of atropic methane gas that requires everyone (except greeks)
within 200 km. diameter to put on GAS MASKS!...
I know it is ridiculous. But "to be or not to be", that is the question.
Have a nice day, sucker!
nevzat
jt...@hotmail.com
Anti-Turkish hatred is a national religion in Greece, a Greek barbaric
paganism.
In article <7flst4$o8u$1...@gxsn.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
jt...@hotmail.com
Anti-Turkish hatred is a national religion in Greece, a barbaric Greek
paganism.
In article <7flsqt$o5l$1...@gxsn.com>,
"Ali Sinan Tuzun" <stu...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > GO FUCK YOURSELF IDIOT!!! DECLARE A WAR TO US IF YOU DARE TURKISH SLUTS!!
>
> LOL...HE SAYS "DARE"!!!...LOL...If we do that you will run away to America
> in the second minute probobly you VERY BRAVE greek mate...oh, ofcourse your
> brave army will follow you...:)))))))))
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Vasilis
Vasilis
TSIBUKI FOR A DOLLAR NOW I GIVE YOU 2 DOLLARS FOR YOUR ASS
Kritifile
jt...@hotmail.com wrote in message
<7ft6bk$iie$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>
>Anti-Turkish hatred is a national religion in Greece, a
>paganism.
>
Really? In that case why is it that Turkey has anti-Greek
statements as a part of its constitution?
>In article <7flst4$o8u$1...@gxsn.com>,
> "Ali Sinan Tuzun" <stu...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Well done John...Someone should wake up our Greek
mates...:)
>>
>> Idirect News <a...@def.com> wrote in message
>> news:371b...@nemo.idirect.com...
>> > I will have to agree with Sinan here. There is NO WAY
IN HELL I
>> > will go to war and die for a few fucking miles of water
and Goat islands.
>> > I have better things to do in life.
>> >
>> > John_ Toronto Canada
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
Greywolf
practice in Istanbul.
They were practising how to beat Turks in a possible Turkish - Greek war in
the Aegean Sea.
So there were two parts, one pretended to be Turkish and was to be beaten,
the second, the real Greeks, the national heroes who were to beat the no:1
enemies.
The results were interesting:
I cannot keep myself from saying that Turks won, at once.
The Greek tanks, caused natural disasters, by shooting forests and starting
fires.
This resulted in a bigger practice of how to fight with fires in forests.
There were several ships, torpedo ships and cruvasors hitting the rocks
because of false manoeuvres, several ships got damaged.
Also because of the smoke out of these ships, the f-series fighter jets,
none of them were able to hit their targets.
Of course, just like the Apachi helicopters.
Probably much more happened, that we don't know, they should be military
secrets.
Finally, the Turkish Greeks HAD to win the battle!!
Don't get angry at me. If the Greek media is making fun of this, I have 100
times more rights to do so.
Constantine Zissiadis
description and I keep my eye on our exercises and yours. As for the
scenario, it is true that the "turks" are beaten every time by the friendly
units, there was some debate wether or not they should change the scenario
and let the "turks" win.
As for you Greywolf they should use cocksuckers like you as live targets.
Watching you fry would be an interesting specticle.
Costs
Greywolf wrote in message ...
Afterburner
subhuman barbarian action can be seen at
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/7360/fonos_1.jpg
Greywolf <grey...@freeuk.com> wrote in
<JLKV2.665$V11....@nnrp3.clara.net>:
Ash
Constantine Zissiadis wrote:
> Be precise, which exercise was this. I have never heard such ludicrous
> description and I keep my eye on our exercises and yours. As for the
> scenario, it is true that the "turks" are beaten every time by the friendly
> units, there was some debate wether or not they should change the scenario
> and let the "turks" win.
>
> As for you Greywolf they should use cocksuckers like you as live targets.
> Watching you fry would be an interesting specticle.
>
> Costs
>
> Greywolf wrote in message ...
Afterburner
> > Everyone knows that Grey Wolves are a Turkish terrorist organization
>
> Who is everyone??????
> Another typical Greek ; they know nothing but they think their dreams are
> TRUTH!!!
> GREYWOLF is a nickname comes from very old Turks and maybe 2000 years
old,
Turks are not 2000 years old
> nothingelse...
> There are no official, legal ,illegal or terrorist organization called
> Greywolfs if you ask to INTERPOL or any other anti-crime organization!
Susurluk car accident. That says it all.
But
> ofcourse you don't want to investigate what I say couse you are a greek ;
> you don't want to learn and accept realities , you prefer to live in
> DREAMS...:)))
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/7360/fonos_1.jpg
>
>
> Afterburner <after...@afterburner.org> wrote in message
> news:8DB75731...@news.sae.gr...
Ali Sinan Tuzun
he says Turks are not 2000 years old. ok ; here is a very simple and common
example ; have you efver heard someone called ATTILA THE HUN ??? oh sure you
did. Your hero(!) cypriot greek soldiers were calling Turkish soldiers as
"ATTILA is coming" while they are running away...:)
Do you know when did he live? Of course not! I wont tell it in here because
I prefer you go and check it but I'll help you and give you an URL ;
http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/History/scholarship/attila.art
It is not in Turkish or a Turkish site. It is Mississippi State University's
site!!!
Oh BTW even Attila was not the first TURK in the wold...:)))))
I spent just half of a minute to find this site, so please my Greek friend,
DO NOT BE TOO MUCH GREEK AND BEFORE SAYING OR WRITING something THINK(if
you can) AND RESEARCH, RATHER THAN READING YOUR DREAMY GREEK GOV. SCHOOL
BOOKS!news:8DBA171C...@news.sae.gr...
Ali Sinan Tuzun
one of them) but as I said before it is NOT a legal or illegal organization
sweetheart...:)
Kritifile <law...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:7gf2qk$1rj$1...@uranium.btinternet.com...
>
> Ali Sinan Tuzun <stu...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:7gf11j$109$1...@gxsn.com...
> > > Everyone knows that Grey Wolves are a Turkish terrorist
> organization
> >
> > Who is everyone??????
> > Another typical Greek ; they know nothing but they think
> their dreams are
> > TRUTH!!!
> > GREYWOLF is a nickname comes from very old Turks and maybe
> 2000 years old,
> > There are no official, legal ,illegal or terrorist
> organization called
> > Greywolfs if you ask to INTERPOL or any other anti-crime
> > ofcourse you don't want to investigate what I say couse
> you are a greek ;
> > you don't want to learn and accept realities , you prefer
> to live in
> > DREAMS...:)))
> >
>
> the imagination?
>
>
> --
> Anna
Afterburner
earth. How interesting.
By the way, what happened to the Osmanli Turks? (The answer is very very
interesting...)
Ali Sinan Tuzun <stu...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in <7gtdig$8ah$1...@gxsn.com>:
>Ah here it is; a typical greek he thinks he knows everything but the
truth!
>he says Turks are not 2000 years old. ok ; here is a very simple and
common
>example ; have you efver heard someone called ATTILA THE HUN ??? oh sure
you
>did. Your hero(!) cypriot greek soldiers were calling Turkish soldiers as
>"ATTILA is coming" while they are running away...:)
>Do you know when did he live? Of course not! I wont tell it in here
because
>I prefer you go and check it but I'll help you and give you an URL ;
>http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/History/scholarship/attila.art
>It is not in Turkish or a Turkish site. It is Mississippi State
University's
>site!!!
"ATTILA THE HUN AND THE BATTLE OF CHALONS
by Arther Ferrill
No one represents the unbridled fury and savagery of bar-
barism as much as Attila the Hun. Even in the twentieth cen-
tury one of the worst names that could be found for the Germans
was to call them Huns. Attila, as the greatest Hun leader,
is the stereotypical sacker of cities and killer of babies. "
now I am convinced, though the author doesn't mention the Turks.
>Oh BTW even Attila was not the first TURK in the wold...:)))))
>I spent just half of a minute to find this site, so please my Greek
friend,
>DO NOT BE TOO MUCH GREEK AND BEFORE SAYING OR WRITING something THINK(if
>you can) AND RESEARCH, RATHER THAN READING YOUR DREAMY GREEK GOV. SCHOOL
>BOOKS!
>Afterburner <after...@afterburner.org> wrote in message
>news:8DBA171C...@news.sae.gr...
>> Ali Sinan Tuzun <stu...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in
<7gf11j$109$1...@gxsn.com>:
>>
>> > > Everyone knows that Grey Wolves are a Turkish terrorist organization
>> >
>> > Who is everyone??????
>> > Another typical Greek ; they know nothing but they think their dreams
>are
>> > TRUTH!!!
>> > GREYWOLF is a nickname comes from very old Turks and maybe 2000 years
>> old,
>>
>> Turks are not 2000 years old
>>
>> > nothingelse...
>> > There are no official, legal ,illegal or terrorist organization called
>> > Greywolfs if you ask to INTERPOL or any other anti-crime organization!
>>
>> Susurluk car accident. That says it all.
>>
>> But
>> > ofcourse you don't want to investigate what I say couse you are a
greek
>;
>> > you don't want to learn and accept realities , you prefer to live in
>> > DREAMS...:)))
>>
>> http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/7360/fonos_1.jpg
Ali Sinan Tuzun
genocided 6 million people but they are not barbarian, Greeks killed a lot
in Cyprus, same, Serbs are civilised, Spaniards killed all the Muslims and
Jews in 1400's and also genocided all the south American nations but they
are also civilised! Because all these nations done this in the goodness of
Christian religion so we can not accept them are barbars, isn't it? but if
you read history(or simply just look your own country) where ever Turks are
gone, let the people keep their own religion and language, that is why Turks
are barbarian! You are absulutelly right!
I couldn't understand your second questiopn mate? what do you mean whey you
ask "what is happened Osmanli Turks"??????news:8DBF3342...@news.sae.gr...
Kritifile
Ali Sinan Tuzun <stu...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7gtdmc$279$1...@gxsn.com...
> well Anna, as I said before some people call themself as
Greywolf(and I am
> one of them) but as I said before it is NOT a legal or illegal
organization
> sweetheart...:)
The Grey Wolves are a well known Turkish terror organisation. I'm sure
that they are legal in Turkey, but morally they are 100% wrong, along
with the stupid "Everyone in Turkey is a Turk" idea. That idea should
have gone the way of the ottomans.
--
Anna
> Kritifile <law...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:7gf2qk$1rj$1...@uranium.btinternet.com...
> >
> > Ali Sinan Tuzun <stu...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:7gf11j$109$1...@gxsn.com...
> > > > Everyone knows that Grey Wolves are a Turkish terrorist
> > organization
> > >
> > > Who is everyone??????
> > > Another typical Greek ; they know nothing but they think
> > their dreams are
> > > TRUTH!!!
> > > GREYWOLF is a nickname comes from very old Turks and maybe
> > 2000 years old,
> > > nothingelse...
> > > There are no official, legal ,illegal or terrorist
> > organization called
> > > Greywolfs if you ask to INTERPOL or any other anti-crime
> > organization! But
> > > ofcourse you don't want to investigate what I say couse
> > you are a greek ;
> > > you don't want to learn and accept realities , you prefer
> > to live in
> > > DREAMS...:)))
> > >
> >
> > So what about Grey Wolves in Cyprus and Turkey? Figments of
> > the imagination?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Anna
> >
> > >