Starship Troopers: the most racist movie I have ever seen
Plain and Simple Cronan
Frederick Pagniello wrote
>The views of trekkies are so refreshing; any form of entertainment which
>show a world not of the Roddenberry-type (you know, "we are all perfect and
>peaceful and there are no bad aliens, just poor misguided ones") is to
>be scorned and disdained. As if Roddenberry's futuristic vision were
>teological! (Also, his view of two steps forward and one back is rather
>simplistic and naive.)
Do you really believe that? Do you think that I am critquing Starship
Troopers: The movie because it is not like Star Trek? Do you honestly think
that I am saying the movie is more or less racist that Star Trek?
Just curious.
>I'll let others respond to Cronan's examination of the film, those who
>wish to waste their time giving an answer to such drivel as posted here.
Wow. Not a single cogent thought contained in 23 lines. Impressice.
Plain and Simple Cronan
Matt Martinez wrote
>> We met all of 12 people in 2001.
>
>
>Some of those "12 people" we met were the leaders of the government.
And those were the Russian and American Goverments.
All of
>them were white.
Yes, and?
None of the people on the ship in the beginning (it's been
>a while since I saw it; it was when the "Blue Danube" was played) were
>anything but white. When they flashed images of the Discovery crew
members,
>they were all white. There weren't even any non-white extras whatsoever!!!
Actually, that is wrong. On the station there are several black people in
the background. 2001 was never meant to represent a world in which racial
divisons have ceased to exist. Starship Troopers does. Pay very close
attention to the fact that this supposed society without racism has few
minorities.
>Hell, let's look at another Kubrick film, THE SHINING. The only black
>character in the film is gruesomely and pointlessly killed and the only
good
>he ends up doing is leaving behind his vehicle so that the last two
>characters can escape.
As I remember everyone not those two characters died in the Shinning. Which
was one other person wasn't it?
Now let's look at Starship Troopers: In the middle of South Ameriica, not
Colorado(or wherever the hotel was) there are no borwn people. Worse yet
those characters that clearly have names that denote them as possible 'brown
people' are shifted to lighter skinned actors and actresses. Worse yet a
startling number of the white people have blue eyes and blond hair.
I'm not saying Kubrick is racist, but given these
>things, I'm surprised your not.
2001 had very few black people in the near future onboard space stations and
in top goverment and science postions. Sounds about right. Starship
Troopers, in a worldwide Federation run by its citizens, seems to have a
startlingly flipflopped population balance in every place we looked.
-- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
Wanna know how the generally obscene and seemlingly simple
place you believe to be reality is really run? No? Then go to
http://gpgod.home.mindspring.com/godfaq.htm for a brief FAQ
on the universe
Brian John Wright
Matt Martinez (mma...@bgnet.bgsu.edu) wrote:
: I'm part Hispanic. The movie didn't offend me in the slightest.
: By the way, was there anyone who wasn't white in that movie you seem to deify so
: much called 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY? Just wondering.
BWA HA HA....thankx, Matt, that was great :) Good point, I'd almost
forgotten.
--
-Brian J. Wright
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Brian John Wright
Plain and Simple Cronan (cro...@DeathsDoor.com) wrote:
: I am not kididng folks. The more I tihnk about it the more pissed off I get.
: This movie was Hitler's Wet Dream given form.
Hitler's wet dreams likely involved 12-year-old boys in tutus. I'm sure
this wouldn't have titillated him much except for the bloodshed (unless he's
too stupid to notice that it wasn't neccessarily a glorification of fascism).
: Here is a list for those you who might care:
: Blacks, Asians, Hispanics and other races represent about 3% of the global
: population
Where is this mentioned in the film?
: The token black, hispanic and aisan characters died painfully
Did they ever! Boy, did I like seeing people die painfully in this
movie. Example after example of "This is now I DON'T want to die".
: The white guy got promoted over the black guy who had been in the platoon
: longer with more experience
Did he?
: Almost all of the high ranking officials we will see are whiter than sheets
: at a KKK rally.
Yes, they were...
: White people dance with white people and black dance with black people at a
: high school in Beunos Aires that has almost no brown people
Yeah, kinda looks like today (think that might just be THE POINT?!?!?).
: The world goverment in Generva is almost entirely white
AND they can spell "Geneva"! (including the black lady given the
incompetent white guy's post after he was sacked)
: You can show white nipples but not black ones.
Didn't you watch the movie? If you did, you need glasses.
: All of the Nazi SS-looking guys in the black trenchcoats are white as are
: all the people who do important things in battle.
Also...did you miss the point?
: I tell you folks if the movie weren't so bad I'd probably start a boycott or
: something
This would imply that somebody takes you seriously, which nobody on
this or any newsgroup has done in years.
Plain and Simple Cronan
Matt Martinez wrote
>I'm part Hispanic. The movie didn't offend me in the slightest.
That would be your problem.
>By the way, was there anyone who wasn't white in that movie you seem to
deify so
>much called 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY? Just wondering.
We met all of 12 people in 2001.
-- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
Plain and Simple Cronan
Brian John Wright wrote
> Where is this mentioned in the film?
Look at the classroom, the recruitment center, the school courtyard, the
dance, the military base, etc, etc
>: The white guy got promoted over the black guy who had been in the platoon
>: longer with more experience
>
> Did he?
Missed that did you?
> Yeah, kinda looks like today (think that might just be THE POINT?!?!?).
Are you saying that the majority of the people in South Amercia today are
the Aryan Ideal
>: The world goverment in Generva is almost entirely white
>
> AND they can spell "Geneva"! (including the black lady given the
>incompetent white guy's post after he was sacked)
Wow! We got us one of them in power. Obviously that makes up for everything
else.
>: You can show white nipples but not black ones.
>
> Didn't you watch the movie? If you did, you need glasses.
Yes, I did. Co-ed shower.
>: All of the Nazi SS-looking guys in the black trenchcoats are white as are
>: all the people who do important things in battle.
>
> Also...did you miss the point?
Obviously. Provide it.
>: I tell you folks if the movie weren't so bad I'd probably start a boycott
or
>: something
>
> This would imply that somebody takes you seriously, which nobody on
>this or any newsgroup has done in years.
Well gosh. You certianly have taught me a lesson
Frederick Pagniello
In article <641t69$q...@camel21.mindspring.com>
"Plain and Simple Cronan" <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> writes:
<snip>
>-- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
>Wanna know how the generally obscene and seemlingly simple
>place you believe to be reality is really run? No? Then go to
>http://gpgod.home.mindspring.com/godfaq.htm for a brief FAQ
>on the universe
show a world not of the Roddenberry-type (you know, "we are all perfect and
peaceful and there are no bad aliens, just poor misguided ones") is to
be scorned and disdained. As if Roddenberry's futuristic vision were
teological! (Also, his view of two steps forward and one back is rather
simplistic and naive.)
wish to waste their time giving an answer to such drivel as posted here.
Frederick James Pagniello.
Brian John Wright
Plain and Simple Cronan (cro...@DeathsDoor.com) wrote:
: Actually, that is wrong. On the station there are several black people in
: the background. 2001 was never meant to represent a world in which racial
: divisons have ceased to exist. Starship Troopers does. Pay very close
: attention to the fact that this supposed society without racism has few
: minorities.
Where, oh WHERE in ST is it even remotely suggested that racial
divisions have ceased to exist?
: >Hell, let's look at another Kubrick film, THE SHINING. The only black
: >character in the film is gruesomely and pointlessly killed and the only
: good
: >he ends up doing is leaving behind his vehicle so that the last two
: >characters can escape.
: As I remember everyone not those two characters died in the Shinning. Which
: was one other person wasn't it?
Scatman Crothers' cook was the one who died. He showed up at the
end of the film and got nailed with an axe for no reason other than to have
him killed.
: Now let's look at Starship Troopers: In the middle of South Ameriica, not
: Colorado(or wherever the hotel was) there are no borwn people. Worse yet
: those characters that clearly have names that denote them as possible 'brown
: people' are shifted to lighter skinned actors and actresses. Worse yet a
: startling number of the white people have blue eyes and blond hair.
Again, you're missing the "logical-extension-of-America" point.
: 2001 had very few black people in the near future onboard space stations and
: in top goverment and science postions. Sounds about right. Starship
: Troopers, in a worldwide Federation run by its citizens, seems to have a
: startlingly flipflopped population balance in every place we looked.
And here is where your ignorance rears its head - didn't you even
see the film's (admittedly brief) meditation on the difference between
civilianhood and citizenship? Most of the citizens looked white to me...
do ya think this future society might be a little biased?
Brian John Wright
Plain and Simple Cronan (cro...@DeathsDoor.com) wrote:
: Brian John Wright wrote
: Look at the classroom, the recruitment center, the school courtyard, the
: dance, the military base, etc, etc
Lemme get this straight - you took a survey?
: Are you saying that the majority of the people in South Amercia today are
: the Aryan Ideal
You're not even addressing my point. What I'd said was that the
censoring of animal violence and the graphic depiction of human violence
was what's actually happening today, and wasn't a "flaw" in the film
by any stretch.
: Wow! We got us one of them in power. Obviously that makes up for everything
: else.
You took another survey?
: >: You can show white nipples but not black ones.
: >
: > Didn't you watch the movie? If you did, you need glasses.
: Yes, I did. Co-ed shower.
Then what are you whining about?
: >: All of the Nazi SS-looking guys in the black trenchcoats are white as are
: >: all the people who do important things in battle.
: >
: > Also...did you miss the point?
Son, your film-literacy ranks around your literacy of Egyptian
heiroglyphics.
The Federation-As-Nazi's theme wasn't exactly a subtle one. Don't
tell me that even *you* missed that.
me
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
> I am not kididng folks. The more I tihnk about it the more pissed off I get.
>
> This movie was Hitler's Wet Dream given form.
>
I must agree. All through out the movie I hoped to see elements that
would convince me that it was a commentary on the problems with such a
militaristic culture. I was disappointed in the extreme. Never once did a main
character question anything about the war. By the end Rico has seen some of the
worst a war could show him, most of his friends were killed, and yet his
response was to smile and say yippee lets kill some bugs. What I found most
disturbing and offensive was the obvious and purvasive nazi imagery. Was it
supposed to be humorous somehow? The book definitely had a right wing slant but
somehow I think RAH is spinning in his grave right now.
Plain and Simple Cronan
Brian John Wright wrote
>: Look at the classroom, the recruitment center, the school courtyard, the
>: dance, the military base, etc, etc
>
> Lemme get this straight - you took a survey?
Actually, yes.
You're not even addressing my point. What I'd said was that the
>censoring of animal violence and the graphic depiction of human violence
>was what's actually happening today, and wasn't a "flaw" in the film
>by any stretch.
Give an example of this happening today.
>: Wow! We got us one of them in power. Obviously that makes up for
everything
>: else.
>
> You took another survey?
Of what? The number of people grossly offended by this movie? No.
>: Yes, I did. Co-ed shower.
>
> Then what are you whining about?
Since the point has gone past you allow me to explain: obviously it was
perfectly okay to show the nipples several white recruits, some of whom
happened to be shorter than that black females yet, with some strange camera
work, they managed to often the chest of almost every white lady in the
scene.
> Son, your film-literacy ranks around your literacy of Egyptian
>heiroglyphics.
> The Federation-As-Nazi's theme wasn't exactly a subtle one. Don't
>tell me that even *you* missed that.
I got it rather plainly. That is why I started this thread.
The Nazi characteristics of the society were not only gratutious but in
direct contradiction with the spriit of the plot
Plain and Simple Cronan
Brian John Wright wrote
> Where, oh WHERE in ST is it even remotely suggested that racial
>divisions have ceased to exist?
They don't. The movie seems to indicate that all raical bickering was
stopped by wiping out the trouble makers.
> Again, you're missing the "logical-extension-of-America" point.
Which is?
>
>: 2001 had very few black people in the near future onboard space stations
and
>: in top goverment and science postions. Sounds about right. Starship
>: Troopers, in a worldwide Federation run by its citizens, seems to have a
>: startlingly flipflopped population balance in every place we looked.
>
> And here is where your ignorance rears its head - didn't you even
>see the film's (admittedly brief) meditation on the difference between
>civilianhood and citizenship?
Yes I did. I di not say run by its civilians I sain run by its citizens. Now
what you tell me what I am to see when only white people are in power.
Most of the citizens looked white to me...
>do ya think this future society might be a little biased?
Yes. And this was intentionally done and the complete opposite of the book.
Parody is just a valid reeason for completing reversing the most simple of
principles.
Matt Martinez
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
> Give an example of this happening today.
Think about this, if you show an animal get killed by a person in a brutal (not
necessarily gory) way on a TV show, you're gonna get all sorts of people on your
ass. Show a person get brutally murdered and nobody cares.
> The Nazi characteristics of the society were not only gratutious but in
> direct contradiction with the spriit of the plot
The spirit of the plot was that it was supposed to reminiscent of a WWII film.
The characters in those types of films (especially the ones which came out
during the war) were usually about the same types we saw in STARSHIP TROOPERS:
the red-blooded, all-American white boy.
--
Matt Martinez <mma...@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
Rokkit
On Sat, 8 Nov 1997 09:34:41 -0500, "Plain and Simple Cronan"
<cro...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote:
>I am not kididng folks. The more I tihnk about it the more pissed off I get.
>
>This movie was Hitler's Wet Dream given form.
>
This is the sort of thing you have to go in looking for. I'm willing
to bet almost every other movie in the theater you saw ST in, hell,
maybe almost every movie played there in the last year was severly
lacking in minorities.
Let me guess: your a big fan of the book.
Rokkit
mspe...@arkansas.net
YOU are the rascist, chump.
GET off your high horse because WE don't buy it anymore.
YOU controlled the media too long
YOU brainwashed the children for decades with your UNION THUGS
YOU are the mind-controlling FASCIST
You want MORE affirmative action to control the content of films
BUT
AFFIRMATIVE ACTION = RASCISM
Brian John Wright
Distribution:
Plain and Simple Cronan (cro...@DeathsDoor.com) wrote:
: They don't. The movie seems to indicate that all raical bickering was
: stopped by wiping out the trouble makers.
There! Great! You've just made an *insight*. Now, how long
is it going to take you to realize that this was satire (how can anybody
miss satire this blatant?)?
: > Again, you're missing the "logical-extension-of-America" point.
: Which is?
America is the imperialist country which most wants not only the
rest of the world, but wants the rest of the world to be just like it is...
and a big part of that right now is white. The earth Federation in ST
is an extension of America, which is why Buenos Aries was as lily-white
as any American state.
: Yes I did. I di not say run by its civilians I sain run by its citizens. Now
: what you tell me what I am to see when only white people are in power.
: Most of the citizens looked white to me...
: >do ya think this future society might be a little biased?
Yeesh, I already answered your question right here.
mspe...@arkansas.net
YOU are the racist. YOU have controlled the media and the classrooms
too long. WE don't buy it anymore. YOU do not want a COLOR BLIND
society YOU want a FASCIST BIG BROTHER society based on MIND CONTROL
and FEAR.
Face it. It's over for YOU.
Brian John Wright
Plain and Simple Cronan (cro...@DeathsDoor.com) wrote:
: You're not even addressing my point. What I'd said was that the
: >censoring of animal violence and the graphic depiction of human violence
: >was what's actually happening today, and wasn't a "flaw" in the film
: >by any stretch.
: Give an example of this happening today.
Violence - enacted by humans against humans - is rampant in every
medium we have. And only when it's "excessive" is it objected to. Violence
against animals, even in the smallest quantities, is always deemed
to be of "questionable" content, and thus we get a PG rating or whatever.
It's not like animals have more rights than humans here (bwa ha ha, that's
a laugh) but I assure you, it's more "okay" to portray violence against
people than violence against animals.
: >: Wow! We got us one of them in power. Obviously that makes up for
: everything
: >: else.
: >
: > You took another survey?
: Of what? The number of people grossly offended by this movie? No.
No, of the people in power who we saw from the back and quite
a distance.
: >: Yes, I did. Co-ed shower.
: >
: > Then what are you whining about?
: Since the point has gone past you allow me to explain: obviously it was
: perfectly okay to show the nipples several white recruits, some of whom
: happened to be shorter than that black females yet, with some strange camera
: work, they managed to often the chest of almost every white lady in the
: scene.
There was more than one black woman in the scene?
: > Son, your film-literacy ranks around your literacy of Egyptian
: >heiroglyphics.
: > The Federation-As-Nazi's theme wasn't exactly a subtle one. Don't
: >tell me that even *you* missed that.
: I got it rather plainly. That is why I started this thread.
: The Nazi characteristics of the society were not only gratutious but in
: direct contradiction with the spriit of the plot
You don't even know what satire is, do you?
mspe...@arkansas.net
Oh! Jesus! No black nipples!
1) Serious hate crime. Call Rosa Parks. Organize protest.
2) Buy new glasses.
Sorry about the Supreme Court thing, man.
Plain and Simple Cronan
Matt Martinez wrote
>Think about this, if you show an animal get killed by a person in a brutal
(not
>necessarily gory) way on a TV show, you're gonna get all sorts of people on
your
>ass. Show a person get brutally murdered and nobody cares.
Wrong. Ever hear of the TV Ratings system? Hear of the Parent's For Quality
TV? Ever seen some of the Far Right's literature on TV?
>The spirit of the plot was that it was supposed to reminiscent of a WWII
film.
One in which the NAzi's won and established a world oligarchy perhaps.
>The characters in those types of films (especially the ones which came out
>during the war) were usually about the same types we saw in STARSHIP
TROOPERS:
>the red-blooded, all-American white boy.
From South America?
Kevin Bratager
In article <64262o$euo$1...@news.nyu.edu>
pls...@is.nyu.edu (Peter L. Sullivan) writes:
> What about when the black guy whips Johnny Rico during training, literally?
I think it's making D. W. Griffith, KKK member and director of "Birth
of a Nation", spin in his grave. :-)
If this is the most racist film Cronan has ever seen, I'd conclude he
hasn't had a film history course in college yet.
--Kevin
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Brian John Wright
Plain and Simple Cronan (cro...@DeathsDoor.com) wrote:
: Uh-huh. Exactly what planet are you on? Violence against animals has been
: seen in several *CHILDREN'S* movies. Any violence agaisnt a person that is
: not animated is likely to get the exact same rating.
Not as much as we see violence against people. Not *nearly* as much.
: > You don't even know what satire is, do you?
: Yes, this was not it.
You may as well say then that it is not a film. If your stupidity -
intentional or otherwise - extends to far as to actually claim that the
satire here does not exist, I shan't waste energy trying to enlighten you.
GunFighter
Get a grip man, not everyone lives in their skin-tone. The few that do are
the ones dumb enough to make a movie this bad (or as bad as Passenger 57)
or the ones dumb enough to be offended by it.
I'm African but I'm certainly not black, and you dont see me bitching
about the lack of positive representation of Afrikaaners in movies do you?
Relax and pound this peice of crap film in a more "racially-harmonious"
way.
(*%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%*)
The Ministrel Boy to the war has gone
In the ranks of death you shall find him
His father's sword he hath girded on
And his wild harp slung behind him
Land of songs sang the Warrior Bard
Though all the world betrays thee
One sword at least thy rights shall guard
One faithfull harp shall praise thee
-12th Century Scottish Fighting tune
(*%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%*)
Kevin Johnson
>>: perfectly okay to show the nipples several white recruits, some of whom
OH YEAHH!!!!! BABY!!!!!!
christian d. ninsananda
Kimberly Rochelle Edwards wrote:
>
> Why do we do this? A movie is suppose to be for entertainment,
> right?
>
> Someone along the way decided to throw a message into it, now
> people are looking for hidden messages in everything.
>
> I haven't even seen the movie, nor will I. The plot, as a movie,
> is laughable. As a book, I'm sure Heinlein meant something totally
> different.
Why comment on something you haven't seen?
> As for the people in the movie, the actors, they were some
> Hollywood exec's idea of how the characters should appear.
>
> That's wrong with us today: focusing on dumb stuff (like movies)
> when important stuff (like voting, homelessness and AIDS) should be
> focused on.
If you read above, this is cross posted from
rec.art.movies.current-films & rec.arts.sf.movies. In those groups we
talk about movies, but some numbskull thought they post it in
alt.culture.african.american.issues, I guess cause he/she thought it was
racist.
> IT'S JUST A MOVIE. DON'T OVER ANALYZING A WORK OF FICTION.
christian d. ninsananda
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
>
> >Think about this, if you show an animal get killed by a person in a brutal
> (not
> >necessarily gory) way on a TV show, you're gonna get all sorts of people on
> your
> >ass. Show a person get brutally murdered and nobody cares.
>
> Wrong. Ever hear of the TV Ratings system? Hear of the Parent's For Quality
> TV? Ever seen some of the Far Right's literature on TV?
I'll have to agree with Matt Martinez on this one, the animal rights
activists have a lot of clout. All the TV Rating system is going to do
is give something an M rating, ever watch BROKLYN SOUTH, NYPD BLUE,
HOMICIDE? People are shown to be brutally murdered all the time,
granted it's only make-believe, but it's rare that you see any
make-believe violence against animals. Ever watch them Fox specials?
> >The spirit of the plot was that it was supposed to reminiscent of a WWII
> film.
>
> One in which the NAzi's won and established a world oligarchy perhaps.
I'm sure that there are plenty of military run facist governments still
left.
> >The characters in those types of films (especially the ones which came out
> >during the war) were usually about the same types we saw in STARSHIP
> TROOPERS:
> >the red-blooded, all-American white boy.
>
> From South America?
Wherever? Maybe if he was from Nebraska you wouldn't have a problem
with it.
Brian John Wright
christian d. ninsananda (f...@leo.infi.net) wrote:
: I don't remember seeing any Asians in the film after two viewings.
Of course not - it's an American movie. And quite frankly, America
would just as soon pretend that Asians don't exist. As far as America is
concerned, racial diversity extends no further than whites, blacks, and
the occasional Hispanic.
: Sorry can't commit on the rest of the government, didn't see the racial
: make-up.
And neither did Cronan.
: I agree, she looked to have the best breasts in the shower scene, but
: they never panned low enough. And they didn't even show Carmen's at
: all. :-(
Yes, I was very disappointed that Carmen's breasts were never
shown. Ah, well.
: As for the school dance, all the black people there were dancing with a
: white partner with one exception, one black couple. True there were
: alot more whites than blacks.
I actually didn't even look at anyone other than the leads during
the dance...but I will look around the next time I see it.
: The one black guy did save all the white guys butts when he sacrificed
: himself and Rico did get his ten lashes from a black man.
That's kind of an old cliche of disaster movies, if not sci-fi
movies....the black guy always dies in service to the others ;)
: I know all the main stars are quite white, but this is the way of most
: movies; either predominantly white (FACE/OFF, GATTICA, STAR WARS, etc.)
: or predominantly black (SET IT OFF, GET ON THE BUS, BOYS IN THE HOOD,
: etc.) and every now and then you have a PULP FICTION or LETHAL WEAPON.
: But I wouldn't say any of these movies are racist even though is
: probably only one Asian total in all the afore mentioned movies.
Like I said before - Asian (or Native Indian, East Indian, or
any more of a slew of other ethnicities) representation in American
films is zilch.
: And a little off the subject, anybody catch the trailer for THE
: REPLACEMENT KILLERS? Chow Yun Fat coming to America to kick some
: American butt and, hopefully, get some American booty (Mira Sorvino).
WOOHOO!
Catherine Law
Since blacks make up 10 percent of the U.S. population, the race
concious should be satisfied at seeing even 1 character of the top ten
in a movie.
If we had seen 3 black girls breasts and 2 white, the PCers would cry
foul that it showed black women more wanton and less worthy of covering.
How can one have any hope of enjoying a movie experience when the race
quota count is in the forefront of your mind?
Now I'm going over to the regular movie newsgroup to protest that Snipes
presence in Too Wong Foo caused a quota underrepresentation of whites in
the main characters.
Plain and Simple Cronan
christian d. ninsananda wrote
>> Wrong. Ever hear of the TV Ratings system? Hear of the Parent's For
Quality
>> TV? Ever seen some of the Far Right's literature on TV?
>
>I'll have to agree with Matt Martinez on this one, the animal rights
>activists have a lot of clout. All the TV Rating system is going to do
>is give something an M rating, ever watch BROKLYN SOUTH, NYPD BLUE,
>HOMICIDE? People are shown to be brutally murdered all the time,
>granted it's only make-believe, but it's rare that you see any
>make-believe violence against animals. Ever watch them Fox specials?
No. You don't see make believe violence against animals. You get to see the
real thing. There is the Animal Attacks series on Fox which has shown the
brutal death of at least one large, intelligent mammal. And shall we forget
the Discovery Channel which shows animals dying by slow suffocation?
>I'm sure that there are plenty of military run facist governments still
>left.
In predominantly white nations?
>> From South America?
>
>Wherever? Maybe if he was from Nebraska you wouldn't have a problem
>with it.
I wouldn't. There are four black people in Nebraska. All of them are living
in the same house armed to the teeth.
-- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
"Oh, you know. [Rainbows] crawl up your leg and bite you on the
inside of your ass and you scream, HEY! STOP BITING THE INSIDE
OF MY ASS!" - Eric Cartman, South Park
http://gpgod.home.mindspring.com/review/
Plain and Simple Cronan
Brian John Wright wrote
> Of course not - it's an American movie. And quite frankly, America
>would just as soon pretend that Asians don't exist. As far as America is
>concerned, racial diversity extends no further than whites, blacks, and
>the occasional Hispanic.
And this(point coming; watch out) is what makes it racist. I still don't get
how you can make statements that speak of the inherent racism of American
culture which were enchanced and seemingly idealized by this movie and still
insist it is not racsit.
>: Sorry can't commit on the rest of the government, didn't see the racial
>: make-up.
>
> And neither did Cronan.
Geneva. That was stated to be the world goverment. I saw the audience. In
fact I saw them quite clearly as they started with an above shot and moved
to a 3/4 angle.
> That's kind of an old cliche of disaster movies, if not sci-fi
>movies....the black guy always dies in service to the others ;)
And this makes it right? How bloody charming.
christian d. ninsananda
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
>
>
> > Where is this mentioned in the film?
I don't remember seeing any Asians in the film after two viewings.
> Look at the classroom, the recruitment center, the school courtyard, the
> dance, the military base, etc, etc
>
> >: The white guy got promoted over the black guy who had been in the platoon
> >: longer with more experience
> >
> > Did he?
>
> Missed that did you?
That was mainly because of his gung-ho heriocs, he knew the lieutenant,
and he was the star. He did replace a black female.
> > Yeah, kinda looks like today (think that might just be THE POINT?!?!?).
>
> Are you saying that the majority of the people in South Amercia today are
> the Aryan Ideal
>
> >: The world goverment in Generva is almost entirely white
> >
> > AND they can spell "Geneva"! (including the black lady given the
> >incompetent white guy's post after he was sacked)
>
> Wow! We got us one of them in power. Obviously that makes up for everything
> else.
Sorry can't commit on the rest of the government, didn't see the racial
make-up.
> >: You can show white nipples but not black ones.
> >
> > Didn't you watch the movie? If you did, you need glasses.
>
> Yes, I did. Co-ed shower.
I agree, she looked to have the best breasts in the shower scene, but
they never panned low enough. And they didn't even show Carmen's at
all. :-(
> >: All of the Nazi SS-looking guys in the black trenchcoats are white as are
> >: all the people who do important things in battle.
> >
> > Also...did you miss the point?
>
> Obviously. Provide it.
Reminds me of a Nick Nolte movie I saw recently, MOTHER NIGHT, and in
one scene you had a black man dressed in a SS uniform. I'm sorry but
anyone who dresses in an SS uniform looks ludicrous, but to have anybody
other than a white male in an SS uniform is laughable. Which is maybe a
good argument for PV to do it in his movie, guess he missed a good
opportunity.
> >: I tell you folks if the movie weren't so bad I'd probably start a boycott
> or
> >: something
> >
> > This would imply that somebody takes you seriously, which nobody on
> >this or any newsgroup has done in years.
>
> Well gosh. You certianly have taught me a lesson
As for the school dance, all the black people there were dancing with a
white partner with one exception, one black couple. True there were
alot more whites than blacks.
As for the blacks, asians (where were they?), and hispanics dying
terribly. Everybody who died in this movie died terribly.
The one black guy did save all the white guys butts when he sacrificed
himself and Rico did get his ten lashes from a black man.
I know all the main stars are quite white, but this is the way of most
movies; either predominantly white (FACE/OFF, GATTICA, STAR WARS, etc.)
or predominantly black (SET IT OFF, GET ON THE BUS, BOYS IN THE HOOD,
etc.) and every now and then you have a PULP FICTION or LETHAL WEAPON.
But I wouldn't say any of these movies are racist even though is
probably only one Asian total in all the afore mentioned movies.
And a little off the subject, anybody catch the trailer for THE
REPLACEMENT KILLERS? Chow Yun Fat coming to America to kick some
American butt and, hopefully, get some American booty (Mira Sorvino).
> -- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
christian d. ninsananda
Frederick Pagniello wrote:
>
> In article <641t69$q...@camel21.mindspring.com>
> "Plain and Simple Cronan" <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> writes:
>
> <snip>
>
> >-- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
> >Wanna know how the generally obscene and seemlingly simple
> >place you believe to be reality is really run? No? Then go to
> >http://gpgod.home.mindspring.com/godfaq.htm for a brief FAQ
> >on the universe
>
> show a world not of the Roddenberry-type (you know, "we are all perfect and
> peaceful and there are no bad aliens, just poor misguided ones") is to
> be scorned and disdained. As if Roddenberry's futuristic vision were
> teological! (Also, his view of two steps forward and one back is rather
> simplistic and naive.)
I never miss an episode of ST:DS9 or ST:V and I loved the movie. I
think you need to get your generalities straight.
Brian John Wright
Plain and Simple Cronan (cro...@DeathsDoor.com) wrote:
: And this(point coming; watch out) is what makes it racist. I still don't get
: how you can make statements that speak of the inherent racism of American
: culture which were enchanced and seemingly idealized by this movie and still
: insist it is not racsit.
Because it's an illustration of a society as the kind of whitened
entity the media shows us. Enhanced by this movie? Yes. Idealized? Only
if you refuse to acknowledge it as satire.
: > That's kind of an old cliche of disaster movies, if not sci-fi
: >movies....the black guy always dies in service to the others ;)
: And this makes it right? How bloody charming.
Not right, not wrong, merely an observation. I'd rather not have
had anyone in such a position, myself...it seems there's always just one guy
who dies to set off "the big one"...
Stephen McLeod
> >|The token black, hispanic and aisan characters died painfully
> >
> >Gee, guess what, so did white people. Equal rights and affirmative action
> >and all that, right?
>
> Funny how even though they are in the minority they manage to die the most
> gruesomely.
>
I guess being burned is worse than being ripped to pieces while still alive by
the bugs? Or having both your legs torn off? Most the deaths in the movie were
grisly. Imho, grisly is grisly. One grisly death is not more grisly than
another one. I think you are discounting non-minority deaths to match your own
predudices.
Stephen
> >|The white guy got promoted over the black guy who had been in the platoon
> >|longer with more experience
>
The "white" guy was the protagonist. They usually tend to do better in movies.
He was also promoted in the book where he was filipino.
> >Yeah, even the highest-ranking grand sky marshal! Wait, that was a black
> >woman.
>
> Token niggers will never impress we. That is EXACTLY like when you hear, "I
> like Collin Powell/Tiger Woods so I am not racist."
>
Blacks make up about 12% of the population. Given three major black supporting
characters plus the sky marshall, I think they are adequately represented.
However, I agree that buenos ares didn't reflect this. I've read that the
director did this on purpose to play up the fascism. Supposedly he was making
an anti racist statement by selecting all caucasions. Too subtle for me.
The black characters were competant, heroic, and intelligent. More importantly,
they were characters who happened to be black. They were not "black"
characters. The other characters were blind to the difference in race which is
a lot better than I can say for our society. Though you dismiss her as "token",
the black skymarshall is equivalent to "President" of the United States. V is
saying that this is a society where anyone, regardless of race or sex can rise
to the highest position of authority based on their abilities and drive.
I think you are letting your reaction to the start of the movie color your
perception of the last 80% of it with regard to its treatment of minorities.
> >I seem to recall a black man dancing with Dizzy on that bug planet. Gee,
> >that must of have been a mistake.
>
> Was that not to make Johnny angry? Sure looked that way.
>
Nope. Johnny wasn't interested in Dizzy at a conscious level yet. He isn't
upset with who she dances with. He is still upset that she is coming on to him
because she used to back in highschool when he already had a girlfriend. It
isn't until raczac gives his advice that Johnny reconsiders.
If anyone was shorted it would be the Asians and Indians. They comprise 60% of
the worlds population and so were grossly underrepresented.
Stephen
Belinda Bates
Catherine Law wrote:
>
> Since blacks make up 10 percent of the U.S. population, the race
> concious should be satisfied at seeing even 1 character of the top ten
> in a movie.
The most recent census has shown that African-Americans comprise 12.7%
of America's population, with concentrations in some areas up to 96.7%
(Tuskegee, AL), so please don't tell me what I should be satisfied with.
> If we had seen 3 black girls breasts and 2 white, the PCers would cry
> foul that it showed black women more wanton and less worthy of covering.
No, I think I would cry foul because I didn't get to see as many men
disrobe during the movie.
> How can one have any hope of enjoying a movie experience when the race
> quota count is in the forefront of your mind?
My mindset while watching a film is the same mindset I have going
through my life. If I see my race underrepresented, I notice it.
> Now I'm going over to the regular movie newsgroup to protest that Snipes
> presence in Too Wong Foo caused a quota underrepresentation of whites in
> the main characters.
I have never seen "To Wong Foo" but I can guarantee that there were more
white people in the film than there were people of color. And while
you're there, you should also protest the fact that straight men were
underrepresented in Wong Foo as well.
The casting of Starship Troopers is laughable because in a global war
less than 22% of the people engaged in that war would be of Europen
descent. The is just based on current populations and not taking into
account the population growth that continues in Asia and Africa.
Current numbers would dictate that the cast should have been at least
55% Asian and 16% African with less than 5% of the cast as American.
I'm not idealistic, and I understand that true representation is not
seen as viable in a racist Hollywood system, but neither can anyone
claim that the exclusion of these statistics when casting took place is
anything less than a slap in the face to people of color.
bb
Scott K. Stafford
In article <3471DB...@aed.org>, bba...@aed.org says...
> No, I think I would cry foul because I didn't get to see as many men
> disrobe during the movie.
Yes, you did.
You're just part of this sexist society that feels that seeing a woman's
breasts amounts to "disrobed," while seeing a man's chest is "non-
disrobed." If you saw the same scene I did, you saw male and female
chests, and no genital organs whatsoever.
> The casting of Starship Troopers is laughable because in a global war
> less than 22% of the people engaged in that war would be of Europen
> descent. The is just based on current populations and not taking into
> account the population growth that continues in Asia and Africa.
> Current numbers would dictate that the cast should have been at least
> 55% Asian and 16% African with less than 5% of the cast as American.
Exactly.
This appropriate representation would have been *far* more in keeping
with the spirit - and letter - of Heinlein's book, which was somewhat
ahead of its time in eschewing the "white male Americans are the only
race who will exist in the future" nonsense ...
--
Scott K. Stafford <sco...@together.net>
***************************************
Rinji news o moshiagemasu!
Gojira ga Ginza hoomen e mukatte imasu!
Daishkyu hinan shite kudasai!
Squeegee Foot
Plain and Simple Cronan <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote in article
<64lpaq$t...@camel18.mindspring.com>...
>
> christian d. ninsananda wrote
>
> >I'm sure that there are plenty of military run facist governments still
> >left.
>
> In predominantly white nations?
Depends on what you mean by "white." Are Syrians "white?" Are Iraqis? Are
Algerians? How about Bosnian Serbs? Chechnyans? Would you consider Iranians
and Afghans to be "white?" How "white" do you have to be? Are Guatemalans
sufficiently "white?"
Squeegee Foot
Plain and Simple Cronan <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote in article
<64lp40$v...@camel18.mindspring.com>...
>
> How bloody charming.
Cronan's a Brit?
Ishmael Shelton II
I must agree that it was stretching to call it the most racist movie,
but it may very well be the most racist move that he has seen. Your
justification of the of the casting of the movie was just as big of a
stretch.
While black men may make up only 12 percent of the population they
constiturte atleast 30 % of the military and even a much larger
percentage of combat forces.
As far as the role of the sky marshall is concerned, its typical
hollywood tokenism. It seem as if in every movie and TV show made in
the last ten year, every judge is a black woman and every police chief
is a black man. Even if there are no other blacks in the entire movie.
Evidently, this satisfies you!
Frtom sticking Billy D. Wiliams in space to compensate for the total
lack of blacks in the Universe, and Richard Prior in Metropolis to add
a little color, Hollywood places the race game. Both played the role
of "The Hollywood Nigger", coniving, shiftless and unfaithful.
Movies like The Color Purple, Waiting to Exhale and Soul Food can only
be made because they portray black men in the way that white america
aka Hollywood wants them to be portrayed. Unfornately black women need
very little encouragement before they jump on the brother bashing band
wagon. From book, to movies to talk shows, its a national craze.
As far the so-called actresses are concerned, it seems that you can
only be successful if you're totally devoid of african-american
features. In other words, the whiter you look the more acceptable you
are to whites as well as blacks. No acting ability is required. When
it come time to play the role of the old matriach, the fatter and
blacker, the better!
As a race in general, the meager gains made in the last 30 years are
dwarfted by the good things that we've lost in the last 60. Is there
nothing but "soul food" that others find acceptable in our culture?
When a Californian has to invent Kwanza,a holiday for us to celebrate
our culture, its very likely that it doesn't extend beyond Norfolk,
Charleston, or Savannah. I'd rather take my 7 dollars and eat at a
chinese buffet!
Ishmael Shelton
Cecil Whittaker
If you don't like the way Hollywood movies portray various groups, I
suggest that you use your own creative talents to produce better films.
Why waste time condemning the works of others when you aren't producing
anything yourself?
BILL KENT
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
> I am not kididng folks. The more I tihnk about it the more pissed off I get.
>
> This movie was Hitler's Wet Dream given form.
>
> Here is a list for those you who might care:
>
> Blacks, Asians, Hispanics and other races represent about 3% of the global
> population
>
> The token black, hispanic and aisan characters died painfully
>
> The white guy got promoted over the black guy who had been in the platoon
> longer with more experience
>
> Almost all of the high ranking officials we will see are whiter than sheets
> at a KKK rally.
>
> White people dance with white people and black dance with black people at a
> high school in Beunos Aires that has almost no brown people
>
> The world goverment in Generva is almost entirely white
>
> You can show white nipples but not black ones.
>
> All of the Nazi SS-looking guys in the black trenchcoats are white as are
> all the people who do important things in battle.
>
> I tell you folks if the movie weren't so bad I'd probably start a boycott or
> something
>
> Say what you will about Independance Day but it wasn't wasn't racist. Not
> because the star was black or the co-star was jewish or the computer
> scientists at Okam's base were black but because nowhere in that movie did
> they hace hispanic characters played by white actors, asian characters
> played by hispanic actors, etc
>
> -- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
> Wanna know how the generally obscene and seemlingly simple
> place you believe to be reality is really run? No? Then go to
> http://gpgod.home.mindspring.com/godfaq.htm for a brief FAQ
> on the universe
everyone knows that niggers are bullet sponges. that is why we have them in
the armed services anyway. it sure isn't for all those brains you freaks got
running around up there. if it was my movie right before the moment of death
all niggers would see their life flash before their eyes: standing in the
welfare line with good old mom, stealing that first car stereo and selling it
for a "dime rock", and picking up that first block of government cheese. you
know all the good stuff that niggers do in life. so quit whining at least they
let you in the theater to see the movie.
BIG"DON'T DROP THE
COTTON IN THE MUD, NIGGER."DADDY
JC Payne
>>I'm sure that there are plenty of military run facist governments still
>>left.
>
>In predominantly white nations?
>
>>
>>Wherever? Maybe if he was from Nebraska you wouldn't have a problem
>>with it.
>
>I wouldn't. There are four black people in Nebraska. All of them are living
>in the same house armed to the teeth.
Huh?
Patrick Dolan
>Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
>
>> I am not kididng folks. The more I tihnk about it the more pissed off I
get.
>>
>> This movie was Hitler's Wet Dream given form.
>>
>> Here is a list for those you who might care:
>>
>> Blacks, Asians, Hispanics and other races represent about 3% of the
global
>> population
>>
>> The token black, hispanic and aisan characters died painfully
>>
As did truckloads of characters of every other racial category, including
white.
>> The white guy got promoted over the black guy who had been in the platoon
>> longer with more experience
>>
Apparantly, he proved himself to be the more capable soldier. He _is_ the
one who took out the tanker bug with a rather nutso piece of bravauda.
>> Almost all of the high ranking officials we will see are whiter than
sheets
>> at a KKK rally.
>>
??? The Sky Marshall herself (the new one) is black, as were quite a few of
the folks I saw in the assembly.
>> White people dance with white people and black dance with black people at
a
>> high school in Beunos Aires that has almost no brown people
>>
Hmm, didn't notice this I'll admit.
>> The world goverment in Generva is almost entirely white
>>
Not from what I saw. And again, the new Sky Marshall is black.
>> You can show white nipples but not black ones.
>>
I dunno about you, but _I_ saw a few black nipples... Granted, I probably
spent more effort ogling boobs in the shower scene than most 30 year
olds(I'm getting a head start on being a dirty old man...Practice makes
perfect you know...:)....).
>> All of the Nazi SS-looking guys in the black trenchcoats are white as are
>> all the people who do important things in battle.
>>
Eh, didn't pay enough attention to the SS guys, although as creepy as they
came off, I'm not sure I'd want to be one of 'em.
>> I tell you folks if the movie weren't so bad I'd probably start a boycott
or
>> something
>>
I don't see anything like the problem you do. If anything, I found it to be
almost by the book PC in some ways.
>> Say what you will about Independance Day but it wasn't wasn't racist. Not
>> because the star was black or the co-star was jewish or the computer
>> scientists at Okam's base were black but because nowhere in that movie
did
>> they hace hispanic characters played by white actors, asian characters
>> played by hispanic actors, etc
>>
I guess I didn't see that in ST either.
Plain and Simple Cronan
Patrick Dolan wrote:
>
> As did truckloads of characters of every other racial category, including
> white.
Interestingly enough EVERY character who wasn't white and got more than
one spoken line died painfully in der service of da Faverland
> Apparantly, he proved himself to be the more capable soldier. He _is_ the
> one who took out the tanker bug with a rather nutso piece of bravauda.
True I suppose. I mean just because he blew up a single tanker bug he of
course deserved the promotion to lt. Simply because he hadn't proven
himself capable of command shouldn't mean a thing right?
> >> Almost all of the high ranking officials we will see are whiter than
> sheets
> >> at a KKK rally.
> >>
>
> ??? The Sky Marshall herself (the new one) is black, as were quite a few of
> the folks I saw in the assembly.
Ever heard the expression token nigger? I hope so 'cause that is the one
that applies. If Verhoveen had been going for satire as so many have
suggested why on Earth did he insist on using a horribly unbalanced cast
to portray a world goverment and then insist on focusing our attention
on the few black characters to scream, "No we ain't racist... look!
There's one of'em there."
> >> The world goverment in Generva is almost entirely white
> >>
>
> Not from what I saw. And again, the new Sky Marshall is black.
Big whoop. I know I feel much better now. I am represented!
> I dunno about you, but _I_ saw a few black nipples... Granted, I probably
> spent more effort ogling boobs in the shower scene than most 30 year
> olds(I'm getting a head start on being a dirty old man...Practice makes
> perfect you know...:)....).
I think I got this one wrong....
> I don't see anything like the problem you do. If anything, I found it to be
> almost by the book PC in some ways.
And poltical correctness is an extremely racist in concept and practice
P&SC
mspe...@arkansas.net
P&SC, you are worst than a racist. You are a professional racist. Go
post over in alt.culture.african.american.nipples with this crap. And
keep on accusing absolutely everyone of being racist; that's a good
tactic. Be militant, man. That's how blacks are gonna survive and
prosper in this country, is by being arrogant and antagonizing
everyone with petty crap like black nipples. And when the guilt
babies throw you a little representation in a film or in government,
bitch about how it isn't enough. Cry, bitch, and moan until even the
guilt babies are sick and tired of you and really don't care about you
or your people or your problems at all.
What do you suppose will happen then?
spectre
No, PissingSC is no professional racist. I think he is younger than 20,
probably hasn't paid enough taxes to support a welfare recipient!
WORK HARDER, AMERICAN!
MILLIONS ON WELFARE DEPEND ON YOU!
mspe...@arkansas.net wrote in article
<3481688f...@news.arkansas.net>...
Plain and Simple Cronan
I am a professional asshole. There is a difference.
Go
> post over in alt.culture.african.american.nipples with this crap.
No such group.
And
> keep on accusing absolutely everyone of being racist; that's a good
> tactic.
who have I accused of being racist? MAny have disagreed with my take on
this film yet I have yet to even imply that they are racist in the
slightest. PErhaps you can provide a single solitary quote of me saying,
"You didn't see it? Your racist!"
Be militant, man. That's how blacks are gonna survive and
> prosper in this country, is by being arrogant and antagonizing
> everyone with petty crap like black nipples.
That was among the most minor of points. Since you choose to focus upon
that I must wonder about your seemingly fascination with the word
nipples. IS it that easy to type with your fingers wrapped tightly
around Woody?
And when the guilt
> babies throw you a little representation in a film or in government,
> bitch about how it isn't enough.
If it were goverment of the US I wouldn't have had a problem. If it were
a representation Western Oligarchy I wouldn't have a problem. Since it
was a WORLD GOVERMENT yet it was predominantly white I do have a
problem.
Cry, bitch, and moan until even the
> guilt babies are sick and tired of you and really don't care about you
> or your people or your problems at all.
I don't have a people outside of those who share my nationality. I am,
first and foremost, an American. To imply that I call this movie racist
out of implied Liberal sensibilites is more than slightly slanderous and
less than cogent. I believe that although the first post didn't give the
amount of detail it should have as to why I found the movie racist
subsequent clarfications have.
> What do you suppose will happen then?
I suppose that if and when people cease to be guilted into allowing the
stupid to remain capable of reproduction you shall be forced to
relinquish your testicles... for the good of the human race.
Boyd Campbell
Apparantly the poster missed out entirely on the satirical nature
of this film. Maybe I can help. The film is a satirical look
at fascism. Fascism is generally racist. ergo--you can figure
out the rest.
Don't feel bad though. Millions of people missed this (pretty
obvious) aspect of the film. Oh well, what do you expect in a
world where Bay Watch is the most watched series in the history
of television.
--
Brian John Wright
Plain and Simple Cronan (cro...@deathsdoor.com) wrote:
: If it were goverment of the US I wouldn't have had a problem. If it were
: a representation Western Oligarchy I wouldn't have a problem. Since it
: was a WORLD GOVERMENT yet it was predominantly white I do have a
: problem.
This World Government looked an awful lot like the U.S. Check
that - it *was* the U.S., expanded over the globe, with a different name.
How else did Buenos Aires look so, well, American?
--
-Brian J. Wright
************************************************************************
"Would a God invent something like death? Plainly speaking, *
it's a lousy idea. It isn't popular, Father. It isn't a hit. It's *
not a winner." *
"Don't be dumb. You wouldn't want to live forever," said Dyer.*
"Yes, I would." *
"You'd get bored," said the priest. *
"I have hobbies." *
*
- William Peter Blatty's _Legion_ *
************************************************************************
Brian John Wright
: Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
: > Blacks, Asians, Hispanics and other races represent about 3% of the global
: > population
: > White people dance with white people and black dance with black people at a
: > high school in Beunos Aires that has almost no brown people
Whatever debate might rage about the rest of your points, this is
factually incorrect. Watch this movie, especially the high-school scenes
(in particular the dance). Not only is it more racially diverse than the U.S.,
it's probably more racially diverse than, well, any country in existence today
(really, the U.S. and Canada are the only real contenders today)...and yes,
there was (gasp!) interracial dancing. *Lots* of it. Not token interracial
couples. Lots and lots of 'em.
Moff
IT IS A FILM < IT IS FICTIONAL > IT IS NOT REAL.
get it, yeah so what if everything is americsn. It's turning out that way.
Brian John Wright wrote in message <65tq96$c...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>...
>Plain and Simple Cronan (cro...@deathsdoor.com) wrote:
>: If it were goverment of the US I wouldn't have had a problem. If it were
>: a representation Western Oligarchy I wouldn't have a problem. Since it
>: was a WORLD GOVERMENT yet it was predominantly white I do have a
>: problem.
>
> This World Government looked an awful lot like the U.S. Check
>that - it *was* the U.S., expanded over the globe, with a different name.
>How else did Buenos Aires look so, well, American?
>
spectre
Moff <adam.s...@virgin.net> wrote in article
<65v4lp$66d$1...@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net>...
> IT IS A FILM < IT IS FICTIONAL > IT IS NOT REAL.
Understand that these people have no sense of reality. They can believe in
anything.
Plain and Simple Cronan
Boyd Campbell wrote:
>
> Apparantly the poster missed out entirely on the satirical nature
> of this film. Maybe I can help. The film is a satirical look
> at fascism. Fascism is generally racist. ergo--you can figure
> out the rest.
I hate to tell you this but: this movie was not satire. It was Hollywood
filmmaking at its very worst. You can apply a subtext that certain isn't
there but that doesn't change that any satirical content certainly
wasn't intentional.
> Don't feel bad though. Millions of people missed this (pretty
> obvious) aspect of the film. Oh well, what do you expect in a
> world where Bay Watch is the most watched series in the history
> of television.
Have you considered that the subtext you are so happily a proponent of
is indeed non-existent. I believe the case for this movie being a satire
has fallen dredfully short of being substantive. The points that support
the statement, "It was just plain DUMB!" are more readily made without
convoluted reasoning. If you wish for us to hash it out again I am
willing but I doubt either of us will 'see the light'.
P&SC
Roger Christie
Boyd Campbell wrote:
>
> Apparantly the poster missed out entirely on the satirical nature
> of this film. Maybe I can help. The film is a satirical look
> at fascism. Fascism is generally racist. ergo--you can figure
> out the rest.
>
> obvious) aspect of the film. Oh well, what do you expect in a
> world where Bay Watch is the most watched series in the history
> of television.
>
Snort. Right. It was too deep for us.
Paul G. Barnes
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message
<34855B2C...@deathsdoor.com>...
> I believe the case for this movie being a satire
>has fallen dredfully short of being substantive. The points that support
>the statement, "It was just plain DUMB!" are more readily made without
>convoluted reasoning. If you wish for us to hash it out again I am
>willing but I doubt either of us will 'see the light'.
The case for satire is as follows:
a) This is a bad movie. Cheesey sets, juvenile dialog, improbable plot, flat
acting, etc
b) (Insert reason here - it doesn't matter - Paul Verhoven is a genius, they
had $100 million, Neumier and Verhoven have made good movies before, Denise
Richards is so beautiful - whatever), so it is impossible to make a bad
movie.
c) If it is impossible for ST to be a bad movie, it must be good.
d) If it is a good movie that looks like a bad movie, it MUST be a satire,
or a parody, or a parodic satire, or a satirical parody.
QED
--
Paul G. Barnes
pba...@imatrex.com is not my email address - it's spam-bait
paul dot barnes at mmcs dot org is my email address
Roger Christie
Paul G. Barnes wrote:
>
> Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message
> <34855B2C...@deathsdoor.com>...
>
> > I believe the case for this movie being a satire
> >has fallen dredfully short of being substantive. The points that support
> >the statement, "It was just plain DUMB!" are more readily made without
> >convoluted reasoning. If you wish for us to hash it out again I am
> >willing but I doubt either of us will 'see the light'.
>
> The case for satire is as follows:
>
> a) This is a bad movie. Cheesey sets, juvenile dialog, improbable plot, flat
> acting, etc
> b) (Insert reason here - it doesn't matter - Paul Verhoven is a genius, they
> had $100 million, Neumier and Verhoven have made good movies before, Denise
> Richards is so beautiful - whatever), so it is impossible to make a bad
> movie.
Of COURSE he's a genius. He did ROBOCOP didn't he???? :)
Not to mention Showgirls.
spectre
Roger Christie
Actually, grade school boy, I've been out of college since
the mid-1970's.
I guess you're too stupid to see that I wasn't posting from
an .edu address.
>
> --
> spe...@value.net
spectre
And I guess, old man, that you're even more stupid to think that I should
give a shit about the domain in your email address.
Go read DNS and BIND, or TCP/IP Administration from O'Reilly, luser!
And if you can't hack those, try Internet for Dummies--I hear that liberal
arts majors love that book 'cause its got lots of words and pretty
pictures.
Roger Christie
If you'd read the domain name...if you could read, you'd see that it
says xlogics. Which is part of Bay Networks. Go look up what
Bay Networks does and sells. I'll even make it easy for you.
You can look at http://www.baynetworks.com/.
I'll let you bask in your own profund stupity now.
wal...@dnvn.com
In article <34855B2C...@deathsdoor.com>, Plain and Simple Cronan
<cro...@deathsdoor.com> wrote:
> Boyd Campbell wrote:
> >
> > Apparantly the poster missed out entirely on the satirical nature
> > of this film. Maybe I can help. The film is a satirical look
> > at fascism. Fascism is generally racist. ergo--you can figure
> > out the rest.
>
> I hate to tell you this but: this movie was not satire. It was Hollywood
> filmmaking at its very worst. You can apply a subtext that certain isn't
> there but that doesn't change that any satirical content certainly
> wasn't intentional.
>
> > Don't feel bad though. Millions of people missed this (pretty
> > obvious) aspect of the film. Oh well, what do you expect in a
> > world where Bay Watch is the most watched series in the history
> > of television.
>
> Have you considered that the subtext you are so happily a proponent of
> is indeed non-existent. I believe the case for this movie being a satire
> has fallen dredfully short of being substantive. The points that support
> the statement, "It was just plain DUMB!" are more readily made without
> convoluted reasoning. If you wish for us to hash it out again I am
> willing but I doubt either of us will 'see the light'.
>
> P&SC
I don't know. That big 'might makes right' speech at the top of the movie
seemed like a dead giveaway to me. You thought it was NOT satire?
k
spectre
UGH!!!
Look, you Novell admin, do you understand what I was saying?! Did your mind
suffer a buffer overflow or something? I don't give a shit where you come
from---that is irrelevant. I don't have the time to check the header, boy!
I don't care if you live down the street, or if your domain was
penthouse.com. Hell, I don't even know what you were responding to. You
care about this shit? I don't!
Oh, I know something about what "Bay Networks does and sells". Being a Unix
admin for a heterogenous 300+ host site, I get to know a lot of vendors.
And I live 5 minutes from their headquarters in Santa Clara. Nice building.
Too bad Great America is nearby. Kinda spoils the view.
Now please, sir, go run along to your little NT network before it gets a
virus or something.
Roger Christie <rchr...@spinach.xylogics.com> wrote in article
<3485BF...@spinach.xylogics.com>...
Roger Christie
spectre wrote:
>
> UGH!!!
>
> Look, you Novell admin, do you understand what I was saying?! Did your mind
> suffer a buffer overflow or something? I don't give a shit where you come
> from---that is irrelevant. I don't have the time to check the header, boy!
> I don't care if you live down the street, or if your domain was
> penthouse.com. Hell, I don't even know what you were responding to. You
> care about this shit? I don't!
>
> Oh, I know something about what "Bay Networks does and sells". Being a Unix
> admin for a heterogenous 300+ host site, I get to know a lot of vendors.
> And I live 5 minutes from their headquarters in Santa Clara. Nice building.
> Too bad Great America is nearby. Kinda spoils the view.
>
I'm surprised you managed to spell heterogenous. Since you're incoherent
most of the time, I probably don't understand what you were saying. If
you
were trying to say anything at all, rather than just froth at the mouth.
I've never used Novell. I don't believe Novell is in use anywhere here.
I
suspect you don't really know much at all about Bay.
I'm in Billerica, just about as far as I can get from your sad sorry
ass.
Fortunately.
I run unix systems, both here at work, and at home, and I've been in
this
business I expect since long before you were out of school, boy.
> Now please, sir, go run along to your little NT network before it gets a
> virus or something.
I'm not hanging out with you, so I probably won't catch a virus.
spectre
On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Roger Christie wrote:
>
> I've never used Novell. I don't believe Novell is in use anywhere here.
> I
> suspect you don't really know much at all about Bay.
>
Listen to yourself, man. You, sir, are freaking out! Compose yourself. You
are taking these postings on usenet way too seriously.
But I was right though, you do use NT. :(
Roger Christie
You spell NT u-n-i-x? Or l-i-n-u-x?
I use a lot of systems, for a lot of purposes. The bulk of
them are either a unix variant, or are dual-boot.
Deal with it boy.
Boyd Campbell
Roger Christie wrote:
>
> Boyd Campbell wrote:
> >
> > Apparantly the poster missed out entirely on the satirical nature
> > of this film. Maybe I can help. The film is a satirical look
> > at fascism. Fascism is generally racist. ergo--you can figure
> > out the rest.
> >
> > obvious) aspect of the film. Oh well, what do you expect in a
> > world where Bay Watch is the most watched series in the history
> > of television.
> >
>
> Snort. Right. It was too deep for us.
It would only have been too deep if what he was trying to do
actually came together and worked the way he thought it would.
If it had worked there would be little doubt about what he
was trying to accomplish. As for Showgirls, I don't know what
he was thinking, except that maybe it was a lot of money and
lots of naked women. It too, I think, tried to be saterical and
biting but fell way short of the mark.
Paul Adams
Boyd Campbell wrote in article <348184...@mail.netdoor.com>...
> Don't feel bad though. Millions of people missed this (pretty
> obvious) aspect of the film. Oh well, what do you expect in a
> world where Bay Watch is the most watched series in the history
> of television.
Normally I would laugh right along with any joke made at the expense of
Bay Watch, except that in this case we're discussing a film which is
hardly better in terms of quality of character, scripting, acting, etc.
The main difference is that instead offering us babes to oggle on the
beach, the filmmakers are giving us dismembered corpses and violent
confrontation on an alien planet. The violence and gore were very well
done, and the effects are very slick, but that's all there is to recommend
this film. The characters, plot, dialogue, etc. serve as nothing but an
irritant which spoil almost all of the enjoyment which you might otherwise
get from the action.
This film has been described by some as a satire. I say that it's satire
on the level of _Sorority Babes at the Slimeball Bowl-a-rama_. Except
that few fans of _Sorority Babes_ would claim that it was a sophisticated
satire, or berate that film's detractors for failing to see the satirical
elements.
I'm sure that the _Starship Troopers_ filmmakers were aware that what they
were doing was trashy. They probably justified their efforts to
themselves with the same attitudes adopted by the film's fans, along the
lines of "who cares if it doesn't make sense, it's just a farce anyway,
and no one expects realism in a sci-fi movie."
But if it was satire they were after, then they fell into the usual trap
which catches most "campy" filmmakers. In the process of imitating a bad
movie, while maintaining a tounge-in-cheek attitude, they produce films
which are genuinely bad, and their belief that what they are doing is
satire serves as nothing more than a defense mechanism to prevent them
from confronting the horrible truth: they are responsible for making a
film worse than the films they hope to spoof. They imagine that what
they've made is perhaps "so bad it's funny," when in reality they've made
a film that's "so bad it's not funny at all, it's just terrible."
Boyd Campbell
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
>
> Boyd Campbell wrote:
> >
> > Apparantly the poster missed out entirely on the satirical nature
> > of this film. Maybe I can help. The film is a satirical look
> > at fascism. Fascism is generally racist. ergo--you can figure
> > out the rest.
>
> Hollywood filmmaking at its very worst. You can apply a subtext that
> certain isn't there but that doesn't change that any satirical content
> certainly wasn't intentional.
No that's just not true. Compare SST to his earlier film ROBOCOP.
I'll be the first to admit that this film doesn't work as well as
Robocop and that he certianly seems to have "gone Hollywood" but
the saterical elements are still plainly there even if they don't
work as well.
--
A. Boyd Campbell, II
Email:Cam...@netdoor.com
King Kong
http://www2.netdoor.com/~campbab/kong.html
Willis O'Brien
http://www2.netdoor.com/~campbab/Obie.html
Plain and Simple Cronan
wal...@dnvn.com wrote:
> I don't know. That big 'might makes right' speech at the top of the movie
> seemed like a dead giveaway to me. You thought it was NOT satire?
What might makes right speech? If you mean Razneck's then I must ask
where you heard might makes right in his schpiel? I heard violence
settles conflicts... which is true. IT was the only part that adhered to
the book in the slightest.
P&SC
hen...@ibm.net
Does anybody realize that this was a book?
jsa...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
hen...@ibm.net wrote:
: Does anybody realize that this was a book?
Yes, I've even read it.
: On Fri, 05 Dec 1997 05:08:24 -0800, Boyd Campbell
: <cam...@mail.netdoor.com> wrote:
: >Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
: >> Boyd Campbell wrote:
: >> > Apparantly the poster missed out entirely on the satirical nature
: >> > of this film. Maybe I can help. The film is a satirical look
: >> > at fascism. Fascism is generally racist. ergo--you can figure
: >> > out the rest.
The movie is based on a book, and the book was *definitely* not satire.
That doesn't mean that what it advocated was fascism, even if it wasn't
really democracy either.
: >> I hate to tell you this but: this movie was not satire. It was
: >> Hollywood filmmaking at its very worst. You can apply a subtext that
: >> certain isn't there but that doesn't change that any satirical content
: >> certainly wasn't intentional.
Again, since it *was* a book, Hollywood decided not to totally erase the
book. I haven't seen the film yet, but I'm pretty sure it must have been
much milder than the book.
: > No that's just not true. Compare SST to his earlier film ROBOCOP.
: > I'll be the first to admit that this film doesn't work as well as
: > Robocop and that he certianly seems to have "gone Hollywood" but
: > the saterical elements are still plainly there even if they don't
: > work as well.
Of course, I suppose it's possible that the director, not happy with the
book, decided to put a satirical spin on it, but I'm doubtful.
Of course, if its fascist to suggest that one gives priority to dealing
with a threat to survival over political correctness and democratic
perfection, then you may find an awful lot of fascists running around
loose - thank heavens.
John Savard
Mitch
hen...@ibm.net wrote:
>Does anybody realize that this was a book?
Yes, and the movie didn't follow most of the book.
--
Mitch
No unsolicited e-mail accepted.
Kevin Jones
Maybe I don't understand what the problem is.... But as a memeber of the
armed forces the movie made total sense to me. No I haven't read the book,
but to me it demonstrated the basic childishness and brainwashing that goes
on in the minds of the future soldier..... Less we forget the lessions
learned during Vietman. The Vietman Vet (the ones who survived) for the
most part were the children who vaguely remember of WWII and kinda heard of
Korea. Sure there were other vets still in the service, but they were not
readily used to lead these poor souls. We even learned how the media could
make or brake the moral of the country if they went unchecked.... Sure I am
treading and the First Amendment, but at the same the media blackout of
Desert Shield/Desert Storm helped out greatly..... So to those that didn't
like the movie... To each's own... But please do remember it was very close
to the truth in the eyes of a service member.
hen...@ibm.net wrote:
> Does anybody realize that this was a book?
>
> On Fri, 05 Dec 1997 05:08:24 -0800, Boyd Campbell
> <cam...@mail.netdoor.com> wrote:
>
> >Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
> >>
> >> Boyd Campbell wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Apparantly the poster missed out entirely on the satirical nature
> >> > of this film. Maybe I can help. The film is a satirical look
> >> > at fascism. Fascism is generally racist. ergo--you can figure
> >> > out the rest.
> >>
> >> I hate to tell you this but: this movie was not satire. It was
> >> Hollywood filmmaking at its very worst. You can apply a subtext that
> >> certain isn't there but that doesn't change that any satirical content
> >> certainly wasn't intentional.
> >
> > No that's just not true. Compare SST to his earlier film ROBOCOP.
> > I'll be the first to admit that this film doesn't work as well as
> > Robocop and that he certianly seems to have "gone Hollywood" but
> > the saterical elements are still plainly there even if they don't
> > work as well.
> >
> >
> >
Peter L. Sullivan
What about when the black guy whips Johnny Rico during training, literally?
spectre
Plain and Simple Cronan <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote in article
<641t69$q...@camel21.mindspring.com>...
> I am not kididng folks. The more I tihnk about it the more pissed off I
get.
>
> This movie was Hitler's Wet Dream given form.
That was one of the purposes of the film, to get us to think if we really
want this kind of future society at all.
>
> Here is a list for those you who might care:
>
> Blacks, Asians, Hispanics and other races represent about 3% of the
global
> population
How did ST present this data?
>
> The token black, hispanic and aisan characters died painfully
They died just like the whites did. The black guy died in the best way way
a soldier can die, too.
>
> The white guy got promoted over the black guy who had been in the platoon
> longer with more experience
There is no affirmative action in the future. Rico might not have the years
of experience, but he was a better fighter and leader. Ability winning over
experience is a fact of life everywhere, in the military and civilian
world.
> Almost all of the high ranking officials we will see are whiter than
sheets
> at a KKK rally.
Actually, they were as white as the driven snow, ;-)
>
> White people dance with white people and black dance with black people at
a
> high school in Beunos Aires that has almost no brown people
Maybe the brown people moved elsewhere. In the future, the planet will
probably have a mobile population.
>
> The world goverment in Generva is almost entirely white
Until they fired the white Sky Marshal and replaced him with a black female
Sky Marshal who was determined to win the war another way.
>
> You can show white nipples but not black ones.
>
> All of the Nazi SS-looking guys in the black trenchcoats are white as are
> all the people who do important things in battle.
Maybe all the non-white nations of the world will do us all a big favor and
stop watching American films and cooperate to make their own Starship
Troopers chocked full of browns, yellows, blacks, whatever.
> I tell you folks if the movie weren't so bad I'd probably start a boycott
or
> something
>
> Say what you will about Independance Day but it wasn't wasn't racist. Not
> because the star was black or the co-star was jewish or the computer
> scientists at Okam's base were black but because nowhere in that movie
did
> they hace hispanic characters played by white actors, asian characters
> played by hispanic actors, etc
>
> -- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
> Wanna know how the generally obscene and seemlingly simple
> place you believe to be reality is really run? No? Then go to
> http://gpgod.home.mindspring.com/godfaq.htm for a brief FAQ
> on the universe
>
>
>
As a member of a racial minority here in the U.S., I would like to add that
I didn't find the movie racist at all. I was very happy that there was no
politically correct bullshit like you see in post-Original Series Star
Trek.
Bob
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
> You can show white nipples but not black ones.
After years of the National Geographic double standard where the reverse
was true, that's certainly a change.
zedd
On Sat, 8 Nov 1997, Losman wrote:
> Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
>
> > I am not kididng folks. The more I tihnk about it the more pissed off I get.
> >
> > This movie was Hitler's Wet Dream given form.
> >
>
> Actually Heinlein's and Verhoeven's....
No, Verhoeven's. Heinlein was not a facist and the main characters in the
book (Rico, Jelal in particular) are not "white".
>
>
> Losman
>
>
>
zedd
--
==============>MY ADDRESS:zeddATaracnetDOTcom<============================
Never appeal to a man's "better-nature". He may not have one.
Invoking his self-interest gives you more leverage.
- L. Long
<*>
zedd
On 8 Nov 1997, spectre wrote:
[Snip - snip - snip]
> As a member of a racial minority here in the U.S., I would like to add that
> I didn't find the movie racist at all. I was very happy that there was no
> politically correct bullshit like you see in post-Original Series Star
> Trek.
Heinlein did it in the book without pointing it out like Star Drek does.
And he did it in 1959 before the term was invented. Read the book, it is
worth it. Ya know, flogging might do some good....just a thought :)
zedd
--
Carlos DaSilva
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message
<641t69$q...@camel21.mindspring.com>...
|I am not kididng folks. The more I tihnk about it the more pissed off I
get.
|
|This movie was Hitler's Wet Dream given form.
|
|
|Blacks, Asians, Hispanics and other races represent about 3% of the global
|population
Uh huh. I know of town with no black residents. Extrapolating from that
data, I can assume that no black people live on the planet, right? Where in
the film does it say that non-white races constitute 3% of the global
population?
|The token black, hispanic and aisan characters died painfully
Gee, guess what, so did white people. Equal rights and affirmative action
and all that, right?
|The white guy got promoted over the black guy who had been in the platoon
|longer with more experience
The white guy did something heroic. Usually doing things above and beyond
the call of duty gets you promotions over guys who are there a long time
doing nothing.
|Almost all of the high ranking officials we will see are whiter than sheets
|at a KKK rally.
Yeah, even the highest-ranking grand sky marshal! Wait, that was a black
woman.
|White people dance with white people and black dance with black people at a
|high school in Beunos Aires that has almost no brown people
I seem to recall a black man dancing with Dizzy on that bug planet. Gee,
that must of have been a mistake.
|The world goverment in Generva is almost entirely white
Gee, so is our government, and you know what, in predominately black areas,
their government is predominately black. And in predominately hispanic
areas, their government is predominately hispanic. Notice the trend?
|You can show white nipples but not black ones.
I'm sure that was more of the actress's choice than the director
purposefully guiding the cameraman.
|All of the Nazi SS-looking guys in the black trenchcoats are white as are
|all the people who do important things in battle.
I think the Nazi looking clothes was just a nudge to show you that the
Federation isn't all nice.
|I tell you folks if the movie weren't so bad I'd probably start a boycott
or
|something
Then go ahead, at least it will keep you off this newsgroup.
|Say what you will about Independance Day but it wasn't wasn't racist. Not
|because the star was black or the co-star was jewish or the computer
|scientists at Okam's base were black but because nowhere in that movie did
|they hace hispanic characters played by white actors, asian characters
|played by hispanic actors, etc
|
|-- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
|Wanna know how the generally obscene and seemlingly simple
|place you believe to be reality is really run? No? Then go to
|http://gpgod.home.mindspring.com/godfaq.htm for a brief FAQ
|on the universe
CJD
Plain and Simple Cronan
I am not kididng folks. The more I tihnk about it the more pissed off I get.
This movie was Hitler's Wet Dream given form.
Here is a list for those you who might care:
Blacks, Asians, Hispanics and other races represent about 3% of the global
population
The token black, hispanic and aisan characters died painfully
The white guy got promoted over the black guy who had been in the platoon
longer with more experience
Almost all of the high ranking officials we will see are whiter than sheets
at a KKK rally.
White people dance with white people and black dance with black people at a
high school in Beunos Aires that has almost no brown people
The world goverment in Generva is almost entirely white
You can show white nipples but not black ones.
All of the Nazi SS-looking guys in the black trenchcoats are white as are
all the people who do important things in battle.
I tell you folks if the movie weren't so bad I'd probably start a boycott or
something
Say what you will about Independance Day but it wasn't wasn't racist. Not
spectre
Hee hee hee! 2001: A Space Odyssey--The WHITEST movie of all time! ;-)
Oh gosh, such inaccuracies about the future!
Matt Martinez <mma...@bgnet.bgsu.edu> wrote in article
<3465702E...@bgnet.bgsu.edu>...
> I'm part Hispanic. The movie didn't offend me in the slightest.
>
> By the way, was there anyone who wasn't white in that movie you seem to
deify so
> much called 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY? Just wondering.
>
> Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
>
> > I am not kididng folks. The more I tihnk about it the more pissed off I
get.
> >
> > [blah blah blah...]
>
> --
>
> Matt Martinez <mma...@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
>
>
>
Matt Martinez
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
> >By the way, was there anyone who wasn't white in that movie you seem to
> deify so
> >much called 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY? Just wondering.
>
> We met all of 12 people in 2001.
Some of those "12 people" we met were the leaders of the government. All of
them were white. None of the people on the ship in the beginning (it's been
a while since I saw it; it was when the "Blue Danube" was played) were
anything but white. When they flashed images of the Discovery crew members,
they were all white. There weren't even any non-white extras whatsoever!!!
Hell, let's look at another Kubrick film, THE SHINING. The only black
character in the film is gruesomely and pointlessly killed and the only good
he ends up doing is leaving behind his vehicle so that the last two
characters can escape. I'm not saying Kubrick is racist, but given these
things, I'm surprised your not.
--
Matt Martinez <mma...@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
Plain and Simple Cronan
Losman wrote
>Actually Heinlein's and Verhoeven's....
Nope. This is NOTHING like Heinlein's book.
>> Blacks, Asians, Hispanics and other races represent about 3% of the
global
>> population
>>
>
>Where did they mention this stat...... We only saw one major city.Notice
that
>the charachters had Hispanic names...... (Rico, Ibanez,Flores)
In case you didn't notice they were all white as sheets. Look at the troops,
the gathering in the recruitment center, the classroom and you will see what
I mean.
>> The token black, hispanic and aisan characters died painfully
>
>so did many white people and hundreds of bugs.
Funny that. With a proportionally fewer representatives they managed to die
more often. Every black person who went into combat died.
>> The white guy got promoted over the black guy who had been in the platoon
>> longer with more experience
>
>Rico had more initiative...
How is that?
>> White people dance with white people and black dance with black people at
a
>> high school in Beunos Aires that has almost no brown people
>>
>
>This is not the only example of this, look at any show on TV.Is it racists
to
>have whites dancing with whites and blacks with blacks?
Yes, It is. It is extremely racsit to assume that black people whould only
be with black people and white people should only be with white people.
>btw- Who are the brown people.... I am hispanic and not brown......
Ever been to South America? Hell, ever seen a picture of seen a picture?
Where, exactly, did all those brown people go?
>> The world goverment in Generva is almost entirely white
>
>When did they show this part?
Sky Marshall speaking
>> You can show white nipples but not black ones.
>
>Now we are getting really picky..........
No, I am stating a fact.
>> All of the Nazi SS-looking guys in the black trenchcoats are white as are
>> all the people who do important things in battle.
>
>We only saw a small part of whole battle, yes the intellegence types were
mostly
>white but this is a movie....
And it was racist. How hard would it have been to get more extras with tans?
> Did you forget the scene where the "White Sky Marshall" was replaced by a
>black woman Sky Marshall.......
Token niggers never impress me.
>Come on, this is a film and say that it is racists is silly. I saw the same
film
>and the fascist overtones did not bother me as mucg because it is FICTION!
So is Mein Kampf.
>You want a racist film try watching Birth of a Nation or any film made
before
>1965.
And this is a valid excuse?
Plain and Simple Cronan
Carlos DaSilva wrote
>Uh huh. I know of town with no black residents. Extrapolating from that
>data, I can assume that no black people live on the planet, right? Where in
>the film does it say that non-white races constitute 3% of the global
>population?
Let's think REALLY hard about this. I don't mean to stretch you but: We saw
a high school in the middle of South America, A huge recruiting center, a
military base and two gigantic invasion forces yet we saw about 12 people
who were not white. Problem? I tihnk so
>|The token black, hispanic and aisan characters died painfully
>
>Gee, guess what, so did white people. Equal rights and affirmative action
>and all that, right?
Funny how even though they are in the minority they manage to die the most
gruesomely.
>|The white guy got promoted over the black guy who had been in the platoon
>|longer with more experience
>
>The white guy did something heroic. Usually doing things above and beyond
>the call of duty gets you promotions over guys who are there a long time
>doing nothing.
What exactly was this? Show his CO? Had a friend in the SS? What was this
heroic action by Rico that earned him a promotion to lt?
>|Almost all of the high ranking officials we will see are whiter than
sheets
>|at a KKK rally.
>
>Yeah, even the highest-ranking grand sky marshal! Wait, that was a black
>woman.
Tokken niggers will never impress we. That is EXACTLY like when you hear, "I
like Collin Powell/Tiger Woods so I am not racist."
>I seem to recall a black man dancing with Dizzy on that bug planet. Gee,
>that must of have been a mistake.
Was that not to make Johnny angry? Sure looked that way.
>|The world goverment in Generva is almost entirely white
>
>Gee, so is our government, and you know what, in predominately black areas,
>their government is predominately black. And in predominately hispanic
>areas, their government is predominately hispanic. Notice the trend?
DING, DING! you are the winner. So in order for the *WORLD GOVERMENT* to be
almost entirely white you need to have a clear majority of white people
AROUND THE GLOBE.
>|You can show white nipples but not black ones.
>
>I'm sure that was more of the actress's choice than the director
>purposefully guiding the cameraman.
Sure.
<<snipped>>
>I think the Nazi looking clothes was just a nudge to show you that the
>Federation isn't all nice.
So the Terran Federation is racist?
>|I tell you folks if the movie weren't so bad I'd probably start a boycott
>or
>|something
>
>Then go ahead, at least it will keep you off this newsgroup.
Nah. I have just begun
Scott K. Stafford
In article <6451bu$3...@camel19.mindspring.com>, cro...@DeathsDoor.com
says...
> Let's think REALLY hard about this. I don't mean to stretch you but: We saw
> a high school in the middle of South America, A huge recruiting center, a
> military base and two gigantic invasion forces yet we saw about 12 people
> who were not white. Problem? I tihnk so
You mean as opposed to Argentina's kick-ass space program in reality?
--
Scott K. Stafford <sco...@together.net>
***************************************
Rinji news o moshiagemasu!
Gojira ga Ginza hoomen e mukatte imasu!
Daishkyu hinan shite kudasai!
spectre
Yeah, way to go Matt!
Brian John Wright <bjwr...@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca> wrote in article
<6446ig$e...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>...
> Matt Martinez (mma...@bgnet.bgsu.edu) wrote:
> : I'm part Hispanic. The movie didn't offend me in the slightest.
>
> : By the way, was there anyone who wasn't white in that movie you seem to
deify so
> : much called 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY? Just wondering.
>
> BWA HA HA....thankx, Matt, that was great :) Good point, I'd almost
> forgotten.
>
> --
>
> -Brian J. Wright
>
> *********************************************************************
> "Every species can smell its own extinction, and the last ones left *
> won't have a pretty time with it. In ten years, maybe less, the *
> human race will just be a bedtime story for their children...a myth,*
> nothing more." *
> -John Trent, _In the Mouth of Madness_ *
> *********************************************************************
> Come visit my little corner of the web, my website, at *
> http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/3957/brian.html *
> *********************************************************************
>
>
Brandon Ray
Troll alert! Troll alert!
In note <641t69$q...@camel21.mindspring.com>, "Plain and Simple Cronan"
writes:
>I am not kididng folks. The more I tihnk about it the more pissed off I get.
>
>This movie was Hitler's Wet Dream given form.
>
>Here is a list for those you who might care:
>
Tendentioius nonsense deleted....
>
>-- Plain and Simple Cronan, Captain of the USS Megadittos <*>
>Wanna know how the generally obscene and seemlingly simple
>place you believe to be reality is really run? No? Then go to
>http://gpgod.home.mindspring.com/godfaq.htm for a brief FAQ
>on the universe
>
>
---
******************************************************************************
"The message is clear: on THE X-FILES, a woman who is co-opted by the
patriarchal order gets turned into a puddle of goo."
--Rhonda Wilcox & J.P. Williams
"'What Do You Think?': The X-Files,
Liminality, and Gender Pleasure"
******************************************************************************
Plain and Simple Cronan
Peter L. Sullivan wrote
>What about when the black guy whips Johnny Rico during training, literally?
I forgot that entirely!
That makes it all better.
Matt Martinez
I'm part Hispanic. The movie didn't offend me in the slightest.
By the way, was there anyone who wasn't white in that movie you seem to deify so
much called 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY? Just wondering.
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
> I am not kididng folks. The more I tihnk about it the more pissed off I get.
>
karl.e.l...@gmail.com
The book in contrast was quite racially inclusive. The Main character Rico is from the Philippines, Sargent Zim is a black man, the list goes on and on. It is not a book that promotes fascism. In fact it pokes fun as fascism.
Topaz
wrote:
>The movie was quite racist. Remember though that it was created by an extreme leftists that has a poor and highly critical view on matters. I might also add misguided.
>
> The book in contrast was quite racially inclusive. The Main character Rico is from the Philippines, Sargent Zim is a black man, the list goes on and on. It is not a book that promotes fascism. In fact it pokes fun as fascism.
By James Miller, PhD
Fascism is an economic system in which a nation's government plays a
central role in monitoring all banking, trade, production, and labor
activity which takes place within the nation. Such monitoring is done
for the sole purpose of safeguarding & advancing the nation and its
people. Under Fascism, the government will not approve of any business
activity unless that business has a positive impact on the nation as a
whole and the people of the nation - this is the axiom which
determines everything under Fascism.
In other words, the government asks, "Is XYZ Enterprises good for our
nation and our people?" If yes, it's approved. If no, it's not
approved. When they ask, "Is it good?", they mean, "Is XYZ Enterprises
good for the workers, do they pay a fair wage, do they produce a
product or provide a service which advances our nation & our people
technologically, morally, spiritually, health-wise, etc???" For
example, a pornography company would not be allowed because
pornography corrupts people generally and exploits & degrades women
particularly. Also, "free" trade agreements (such as what the U.S. has
with China) would never be allowed because such trade agreements
result in companies sending jobs overseas (where labor is dirt cheap).
Such an activity, of course, would undermine a nation's labor class.
This is entirely unnacceptable and thus not allowed under a Fascist
economic model.
Fascism is based on free enterprise - but with constraints (the
primary constraint being, "Is the particular economic activity in
question good for our nation?"). Also, a businessman can become
wealthy in a Fascist country, and the government has no objection to
this (this is in stark contrast to Communism). Fascism also encourages
private ownership of property (again, in stark contrast to Communism
where private property is not allowed).
In a nutshell, Fascism basically tells entrepreneurs, "Go ahead and
start a business, earn a lot of money, be successful, but don't
produce any products or services which damage our nation and our
nation's people... and make sure you treat your workers fair and pay
them a living wage. If you don't do these things, we'll shut you
down."
The above is the economic aspect of Fascism. There is also a
cultural/social aspect to Fascism as well. Under Fascism, government
plays a key role in monitoring: film, theatre, art, literature, music,
education, etc in order to maintain a high moral standard, keep things
clean and respectable, promote a strong sense of patriotism and honor,
and prevent the dissemination of depraved filth which corrupts
society.
A few other things to mention. Fascism encourages respect for the
enviroment as Fascists understand that nature is the giver of life and
thus must be preserved. Contrast this environmental view with that of
Capitalism which too often takes the short term view and foolishly
believes that pollution is a necessary byproduct of profit.
Also, under Fascism, if a person doesn't like things, he/she can leave
the country. Contrast this with Communism where if you don't like
things, you better keep your mouth shut. And, of course, there is no
option to leave the country. You will submit or else be sent to a
re-education camp where you'll be brainwashed to accept the Communist
system. And if you still resist, you'll probably be killed. Again,
there is no leaving. Submit or suffer the consequences.
Lastly, Fascism holds women in very high regard. Women are the
carriers of new life. They are expected to be educated, worldly, and
well read. Women are encouraged to pursue their interests and have a
career but only if a career won't interfere with her family's needs;
family comes first, always. Women are encouraged to be strong yet
feminine.
In Germany, the NSDAP essentially followed the above described Fascist
system.
###
For SERIOUS conservative writing, please visit my website:
http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com
www.tomatobubble.com www.ihr.org http://nationalvanguard.org
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