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Re: Again: Elm Street was circuit

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Lone

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May 23, 2008, 11:02:34 AM5/23/08
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On 23 Mai, 16:26, Lone <amseikci...@gmail.com> wrote:
> created for the assassins.
> The easiest way to go on Stemmons is...
> [IMG]http://i26.tinypic.com/2a80pi9.jpg[/IMG]

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David Von Pein

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May 23, 2008, 11:25:50 AM5/23/08
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>>> "Elm Street was circuit created for the assassins. The easiest way to go on Stemmons is....http://i26.tinypic.com/2a80pi9.jpg." <<<

Lone, you must be nuts.

Your proposed route onto Stemmons directly from Main is stupid. It
would require a bunch of lane-hopping and would also require the
motorcade vehicles to travel WEST in the EAST-bound lanes of Main
Street for a short period before making a severe hairpin turn to get
onto the Stemmons ramp (much sharper than the Houston-to-Elm turn).

Plus: The freeway ramp you're talking about is a ramp that is designed
only for EAST-bound traffic on Main.

Can you imagine the three press busses making this impossible turn to
get onto this ramp?:

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=32.7774652&lon=-96.8105257&z=19&l=0&m=a&v=2

Lone

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May 23, 2008, 11:38:13 AM5/23/08
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There are no obstacles between Main and Commerce after the triple
underpass. For a presidental motorcade it is no problem to go west on
an east bound lane for a short while, note: the traffic was
compelled,,,And yes: you have to make a 120 degree turn. They same
turn, the motorcade made, when it get from Huston onto Elm. That
proves: a press bus is able to make such a turn.
Your problems with my route are none.

David Von Pein

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May 23, 2008, 11:46:37 AM5/23/08
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Lone is totally nuts (as usual).

The turn onto Elm was much less sharp than the idiotic one proposed by
Lone (which has the President's motorcade violating all kinds of
traffic laws, to boot).

In fact, Lone's stupid proposed turn is pretty close to a full 180-
degree turn. Again, just imagine the heavy busses maneuvering this
hairpin shown here:


http://wikimapia.org/#lat=32.7775283&lon=-96.8107322&z=19&l=0&m=a&v=2

Lone

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May 23, 2008, 12:51:46 PM5/23/08
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Iit would be an easy turn for a skilled busdriver. Check this one:
[IMG]http://i26.tinypic.com/34obxx0.jpg[/IMG]

Lone

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May 23, 2008, 12:56:21 PM5/23/08
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The Dallas Press Bus was about 12 meters long.
Get over it van Pein. This turn is easy to do...

David Von Pein

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May 23, 2008, 12:57:50 PM5/23/08
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I'm not saying it would have been physically impossible to make the
hairpin turn that you (Lone) so stupidly propose....I'm saying that
that turn is certainly sharper than the Elm turn....and I'm also
saying that your alternate route is certainly no better than the route
actually taken on 11/22/63.

And such a hairpin turn onto the Stemmons ramp would certainly be
slowing JFK's car down even MORE than it slowed at Elm & Houston.
Obviously it would have slowed more. And isn't that always one of the
big gripes of CTers in this "motorcade route" regard -- i.e., the car
slowed down below the supposed USSS minimum of "44 MPH", etc.?

Can you see SS-100-X taking that hairpin Stemmons ramp turn at 44
MPH?? (On two wheels maybe.)

Lone

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May 23, 2008, 1:04:42 PM5/23/08
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The point is: there are no buildings (with open windows)surrounding
this turn, therefor this turn is much saver, than the Huston- Elm
turn.

David Von Pein

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May 23, 2008, 1:06:02 PM5/23/08
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DVP Correction (before I'm jumped on by a CTer)........

I want to change this earlier comment that I made within this thread:

"Can you imagine the three press busses making this impossible

turn to get onto this ramp?..."

I want to amend the above sentence, to this:

Can you imagine the three press busses making this very tight turn to
get onto this ramp?

David Von Pein

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May 23, 2008, 1:29:15 PM5/23/08
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>>> "The point is: there are no buildings (with open windows) surrounding this turn, [therefore] this turn is much [safer], than the [Houston]-Elm turn." <<<


Okay. Point taken about the lack of buildings right near the freeway
ramps.

But lots of additional maneuvering and illegal lane-changing of the
motorcade vehicles would need to be done in order to accommodate the
funky route onto Stemmons that you advocate.

Yes, it was possible to have done it the way you propose....but from
the pre-assassination type of mindset that guided the Secret Service
at the time when the Dallas motorcade was mapped out, such a drastic
and (at times) technically-illegal route would probably not be
considered an appropriate one.

Now, looking at the whole matter in hindsight--from a POST-
assassination viewpoint--then I suppose it might have been wiser to
avoid a tight turn onto Elm in front a bunch of tall buildings.

But also keep in mind that Kennedy's car stopped COMPLETELY on a
couple of occasions during the Dallas motorcade. So the Secret
Service, quite obviously, was under no obligation whatsoever to adhere
to any type of rigid "44 MPH" rule. If that rule was on the SS books
in '63, they obviously broke the rule on several occasions.


But, then too, EVERYTHING regarding Presidential security in
motorcades changed after November 22nd. The biggest overall change, I
suppose, is the fact that no President has ridden in an open-topped
limousine since John Kennedy.

Lone

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May 23, 2008, 1:31:57 PM5/23/08
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Once again. for a skilled bus- driver it is a easy turn to do...

Lone

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May 23, 2008, 2:47:35 PM5/23/08
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"All quiet on the western front?" Seems that somebody has lost a
battle.
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David Von Pein

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May 23, 2008, 3:34:34 PM5/23/08
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>>> "Seems that somebody has lost a battle." <<<

Why on Earth would you say that, Lone?

You haven't proved a damn thing regarding your proposed "easiest way"
motorcade route.

In fact, your "easiest way to go on Stemmons" is not the "easiest" at
all. The easiest (and best, and by-the-book) way is just exactly the
route that was taken by the motorcade vehicles on 11/22/63 -- i.e.,
Main to Houston to Elm.

tomnln

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May 23, 2008, 4:22:23 PM5/23/08
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"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0f91a9af-a2c7-424f...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...


David puts his foot in his mouth AGAIN>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/you_asked_for_it.htm

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