THE CIA, CUBAN EXILES, AND ASSORTED SKEWED-BY-CTers MISCELLANY
David Von Pein
>>> "He {VB} blindly accepts the word of his friends/contacts at the CIA that they had "no operational interest in LHO", when documentary evidence from the ARRB and even before them proves otherwise." <<<
And just how did the ARRB "prove" that?
Vince B. has an interesting line of thought on the CIA (one which is
really quite humorous...and forthright, IMO). Let's listen:
"Even though normally innocent they insist on acting guilty so that
conspiracy theorists will have more fodder for their charges. (They do
so because being innocent, they have no guilty conscience and continue
to be angered and shocked when they are later accused of a "cover-
up.")" -- VB
"The CIA had nothing to hide in thousands of previous documents the
agency initially refused to release voluntarily but ultimately did
release under court order. The CIA specializes in always acting
guilty, even when it is not, and always being, from a public relations
standpoint, its own worst enemy." -- VB
"To the point, arguably, of perversity, the silly spooks at Langley--
like the pathological liar who lies even when it would be to his
benefit to tell the truth--will fight Morley and his lawyer every inch
of the way, thereby helping them, every inch of the way, to convince
everyone that it has something to hide--Joannides's and perhaps its
own complicity in the assassination. .... Joannides and the CIA
conspired with Oswald to kill Kennedy as much as you and I did." -- VB
>>> "The same goes for the mob and Cuban Exiles. No matter how many times he contends that these groups had no involvement in JFK's murder, he has offered no proof whatsoever..." <<<
And what "proof" has anyone provided that links the Mob or the Exiles
to JFK's death? Or: what ironclad "proof" is there that Oswald was
"connected" in some way with the Mob?*
* = We know he was connected partially to anti-Castro Cuban
exiles....at least to the extent he was seen with Bringuier and
possibly others too. But if you read any entensive LHO biography--like
in "RH" or Jean Davison's excellent book--you can see that LHO's
"contact" with these anti-Castro exiles was almost certainly for his
OWN SOLITARY SELFISH PURPOSES....i.e., he wanted to get to Cuba, and
he didn't give a damn who he had to dupe to get there it would seem.
His flip-flopping ruse over to the "anti-Castro" side didn't work,
since he never got to Cuba via the exiles he contacted. But one
thing's for sure--there's not a speck of proof tying anti-Castro
exiles to the assassination of JFK. At the time of "Leopoldo's" call
to Odio in Sep. '63, there could not possibly have been a "plan" for
Oswald to kill Kennedy IN DALLAS.
If you think that these exiles worked with Oswald BEYOND late
September 1963, where's the evidence of this? Answer: None exists.
>>> "So, until he {VB} proves his claim that LHO was a lone assassin with no help..." <<<
That's odd (yet again)....I thought the CTers had the burden of
proving that Oswald WAS involved in a conspiracy, rather than the
reverse of LNers having to prove the negative that he was not involved
with a teammate(s).
Has the burden suddenly shifted to the LNers in this regard without my
knowing it?
BTW, where are those non-C2766 bullets? Has anyone found one yet?
David Von Pein
July 2, 2007
robcap...@netscape.com
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/d5805db4...
>
> >>> "He {VB} blindly accepts the word of his friends/contacts at the CIA that they had "no operational interest in LHO", when documentary evidence from the ARRB and even before them proves otherwise." <<<
"And just how did the ARRB "prove" that?"
What about his 201 file?
"Vince B. has an interesting line of thought on the CIA (one which is
really quite humorous...and forthright, IMO). Let's listen:"
Call Ripley's " Believe it or Not" as VB has an interesting thought.
"Even though normally innocent they insist on acting guilty so that
conspiracy theorists will have more fodder for their charges. (They do
so because being innocent, they have no guilty conscience and continue
to be angered and shocked when they are later accused of a "cover-
up.")" -- VB"
No one in their right mind blames the entire CIA for conspiracy, but
real evidence has shown there were group involved (most notably out of
the Mexico City and Far East sectors), along with the superiors in
charge of these groups, in the assassination. Do deny this is crazy
as it is fact the CIA has/had groups dedicated to assassinations.
"The CIA had nothing to hide in thousands of previous documents the
agency initially refused to release voluntarily but ultimately did
release under court order. The CIA specializes in always acting
guilty, even when it is not, and always being, from a public relations
standpoint, its own worst enemy." -- VB"
They sure did have a lot to hide. Yes, many documents have been
released but they have been sanitized so much there have been only a
small amount of nuggets found so far. Many of the real documents
needed have been destroyed long ago or hidden away for good. The CIA
is a secret organization, therefore, it is for them to deny having
anything they want to, who is going to know for sure they are lying?
"To the point, arguably, of perversity, the silly spooks at Langley--
like the pathological liar who lies even when it would be to his
benefit to tell the truth--will fight Morley and his lawyer every inch
of the way, thereby helping them, every inch of the way, to convince
everyone that it has something to hide--Joannides's and perhaps its
own complicity in the assassination. .... Joannides and the CIA
conspired with Oswald to kill Kennedy as much as you and I did." --
VB"
The groups involved in JFK's assassination in no way conspired with
LHO, he was a peon, he was told to do this or that and then set-up to
take the fall.
> >>> "The same goes for the mob and Cuban Exiles. No matter how many times he contends that these groups had no involvement in JFK's murder, he has offered no proof whatsoever..." <<<
"And what "proof" has anyone provided that links the Mob or the Exiles
to JFK's death? Or: what ironclad "proof" is there that Oswald was
"connected" in some way with the Mob?*"
His uncle worked for Carlos Marcello in New Orleans, coincidence? The
mob has said they were involved, why don't you and big mouth VB call
them liars?
"* = We know he was connected partially to anti-Castro Cuban
exiles....at least to the extent he was seen with Bringuier and
possibly others too. But if you read any entensive LHO biography--like
in "RH" or Jean Davison's excellent book--you can see that LHO's
"contact" with these anti-Castro exiles was almost certainly for his
OWN SOLITARY SELFISH PURPOSES....i.e., he wanted to get to Cuba, and
he didn't give a damn who he had to dupe to get there it would seem."
We also know the CIA was using this group through Alpha 66, Operation
40, AM/LASH, JM/WAVE and "Operation Mongoose" to assassinate Castro
and other pesky leaders, so why could they not be used on JFK?
"His flip-flopping ruse over to the "anti-Castro" side didn't work,
since he never got to Cuba via the exiles he contacted. But one
thing's for sure--there's not a speck of proof tying anti-Castro
exiles to the assassination of JFK. At the time of "Leopoldo's" call
to Odio in Sep. '63, there could not possibly have been a "plan" for
Oswald to kill Kennedy IN DALLAS."
There is strong proof, but VB is paid to ignore it.
"If you think that these exiles worked with Oswald BEYOND late
September 1963, where's the evidence of this? Answer: None exists."
He worked with people who were in charge of the exiles, like
Bannister, Ferrie, et. al.
> >>> "So, until he {VB} proves his claim that LHO was a lone assassin with no help..." <<<
"That's odd (yet again)....I thought the CTers had the burden of
proving that Oswald WAS involved in a conspiracy, rather than the
reverse of LNers having to prove the negative that he was not involved
with a teammate(s)."
No, our job is to show that the WC did NOT met their burden of proof
that LHO was guilty, let alone that he did it with no help.
"Has the burden suddenly shifted to the LNers in this regard without
my knowing it?"
The burden has always been on the LNers since you support a theory
that asserts someone is guilty. The prosecutor side has the burden of
proof, not the defense side. You have failed miserably in your
assertions by the way.
"BTW, where are those non-C2766 bullets? Has anyone found one yet?"
I'm already gave you four specimans that were found and given to the
FBI and HSCA, yet no one felt they were worth investigating, how
come? Oh, that is right, NONE came from a Mannlicher-Carcano.
David Von Pein
>>> "What about his {Oz's} 201 file?" <<<
A 201 file doesn't indicate that Oswald was EMPLOYED by the CIA.
Nothing of the kind is indicated by the mere presence of a 201 file.
All defectors to a hostile nation (or would-be defectors, like LHO)
had a 201 file opened on them. Oswald was no different.
If anybody thinks the existence of a 201 file on Oswald signifies his
"involvement" with the CIA, they're as daffy as Jim Garrison was.
tomnln
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:233ba632-c240-4bc8...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
robcap...@netscape.com
You are right, but Helms testified under oath that when someone had
one they were an employee 80% of the time. Combine this with Hoover's
knowledge of LHO in 1961 and it seems to me he was part of the CIA.
Just look at who he was around, they were almost all CIA.
tomnln
http://whokilledjfk.net/spy.htm
"robcap...@netscape.com" <robc...@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:82648951-e2ac-472e...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
tims...@gmail.com
Robcap,
A guy like Oswald had a CIA 201 file on him and an extensive FBI file
on him prior to the assassination precisely BECAUSE of what he was; a
leftist malcontent and agitator.
That's why you have security services, robcap, to monitor kooks and
traitors like that.
He was EXACTLY the sort of person they were required to keep tabs on.
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
On Apr 5, 10:37 am, "robcap...@netscape.com" <robcap...@netscape.com>
wrote:
aeffects
> TOP POST
>
> Robcap,
>
> A guy like Oswald had a CIA 201 file on him and an extensive FBI file
> on him prior to the assassination precisely BECAUSE of what he was; a
> leftist malcontent and agitator.
>
> That's why you have security services, robcap, to monitor kooks and
> traitors like that.
>
> He was EXACTLY the sort of person they were required to keep tabs on.
>
> Regards,
go throw anoth'a shrimp on the babie, asshole....
tims...@gmail.com
Anoth'a shrimp on the babie??
Your (sic) getting more and more incoherent, Toots-E-Roll.
Howsabout you sober up, K toots?
Concerned Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
> > > Just look at who he was around, they were almost all CIA.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
aeffects
> TOP POST
>
> Anoth'a shrimp on the babie??
>
> Your (sic) getting more and more incoherent, Toots-E-Roll.
>
you're from Australia? You fucking liar..... How many times were those
5 words mentioned in film? 400?
tims...@gmail.com
What <snicker> film was that then, Toots-E-Roll?
I must say, Mr Healy, your responses are getting more and more heated
and even less coherent since your little hiatus.
Didn't the holiday do you good, Toots?
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
aeffects
ROTFLMFAO.... you wannabe .john wanker-rite... What-a-fucking idiot!
Take up drinking asshole -- Paul Hogan, forget about'em?
aeffects
>
> I must say, Mr Healy, your responses are getting more and more heated
> and even less coherent since your little hiatus.
don't get nervous son..... when you show a measure of knowledge
concerning the JFK case, cease displaying your dexterity in the use of
kneepads... I'll be kinder, till then toots-e-roll, you're a useless
piece of troll-shit, a dime a dozen here...
And *ALL* the lurkers understand WHY? So keep posting numb-nuts
tims...@gmail.com
No, Toots, it's *another shrimp on the barbie*, Toots-E-Roll.
Nothing about a <snicker> *babie*, Toots-E-Roll.
A barbie is Aussie shorthand for a BBQ, you foul mouthed JFK-CT cretin
and clown.
Howsabout you cobble together a coherent post for once, Healy? Even a
coherent sentence would do. Stop bludging and start typing, you
talentless, psycho-babbling Fresno Freak.
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
> > > 5 words mentioned in film? 400?- Hide quoted text -
tims...@gmail.com
Hi Toots,
Say, how come you STILL haven't answered a single question I've raised
about Z film alteration, Toots-E-Roll?
Aren't you a Z film alteration expert, Toots-E-Roll?
You're not, well, a bit scared to address the issues are you, Mr
Healy?
Good! Well go and get your <snicker> galley proof copy of the book
Four Days, Dave ol' fella, and turn to page fourteen.
Now, Dave, how many street lights do you see on Main at Dealey in that
photo? I see three myself, in a straight line. How 'bout you, Toots?
Helpful Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
> > > 5 words mentioned in film? 400?- Hide quoted text -
robcap...@netscape.com
> TOP POST
"Robcap,
"A guy like Oswald had a CIA 201 file on him and an extensive FBI file
on him prior to the assassination precisely BECAUSE of what he was; a
leftist malcontent and agitator."
Agitator? Where was he an agitator beyond New Orleans? Why did they
NOT throw him in the brig after he defected and then returned to the
US? They didn't even question him? Some pamphlets does not make a
man an agitator? Where is your motive again? A 201 file is NOT
created because someone is an agitator.
"That's why you have security services, robcap, to monitor kooks and
traitors like that."
Except you are forgetting one thing, or maybe don't know sincy you are
an Australian, but the CIA is NOT allowed to monitor US citizens by
law, they are strictly an international agency. Obviously 9/11 has
changed this a bit, but in 1963 the FBI handled all domest issues.
"He was EXACTLY the sort of person they were required to keep tabs
on."
Tabs on? Why was he not questioned or jailed for defecting and
possibly giving away top secret information?
>
> Regards,
>
> Tim Brennan
> Sydney, Australia
> *Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> On Apr 5, 10:37 am, "robcap...@netscape.com" <robcap...@netscape.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 4, 3:42 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > >>> "What about his {Oz's} 201 file?" <<<
>
> > "A 201 file doesn't indicate that Oswald was EMPLOYED by the CIA.
> > Nothing of the kind is indicated by the mere presence of a 201 file.
> > All defectors to a hostile nation (or would-be defectors, like LHO)
> > had a 201 file opened on them. Oswald was no different.
>
> > If anybody thinks the existence of a 201 file on Oswald signifies his
> > "involvement" with the CIA, they're as daffy as Jim Garrison was."
>
> > You are right, but Helms testified under oath that when someone had
> > one they were an employee 80% of the time. Combine this with Hoover's
> > knowledge of LHO in 1961 and it seems to me he was part of the CIA.
> > Just look at who he was around, they were almost all CIA.- Hide quoted text -
tims...@gmail.com
Robcap, they opened a 201 file on him when he defected in 1959. He was
still attempting to defect to hostile Communist nations in 1963 when
he tried to reach Cuba, while his request to return to the USSR was
being considered.
He himself described himself as an agitator. Keep in mind he had
already tried to kill the right wing Walker before he got to New
Orleans.
You seem to like questions, Robcap. Why don't you try one. If this
guy, Oswald, worked for the CIA, as you seem to assume, why did he
practically have to beg the US to get him out of the USSR when he
wanted to return?
Wouldn't they have treated one of their operatives a little better
than that, Robcap?
Concerned Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
On Apr 6, 7:43 am, "robcap...@netscape.com" <robcap...@netscape.com>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
aeffects
> still attempting to defect to hostile Communist nations in 1963 when
> he tried to reach Cuba, while his request to return to the USSR was
> being considered.
>
> He himself described himself as an agitator. Keep in mind he had
> already tried to kill the right wing Walker before he got to New
> Orleans.
>
> You seem to like questions, Robcap. Why don't you try one. If this
> guy, Oswald, worked for the CIA, as you seem to assume, why did he
> practically have to beg the US to get him out of the USSR when he
> wanted to return?
>
> Wouldn't they have treated one of their operatives a little better
> than that, Robcap?
dance sweetheart, dance.... turn up that music maestro, Brennan found
his dancing shoes.... flashback time, questions from 10 years ago....
ROFLMFAO! Perhaps he ought to throw his laces over the rafters and
hang from them...... maestro up 10db..... oh-wee..... the Nutter's are
in complete disarray..... little music, they shit!
tomnln
<tims...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c2099432-c755-463f...@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
TOP POST
Robcap, they opened a 201 file on him when he defected in 1959. He was
still attempting to defect to hostile Communist nations in 1963 when
he tried to reach Cuba, while his request to return to the USSR was
being considered.
He himself described himself as an agitator. Keep in mind he had
already tried to kill the right wing Walker before he got to New
Orleans.
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/Walker.htm
You seem to like questions, Robcap. Why don't you try one. If this
guy, Oswald, worked for the CIA, as you seem to assume, why did he
practically have to beg the US to get him out of the USSR when he
wanted to return?
Wouldn't they have treated one of their operatives a little better
than that, Robcap?
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/spy.htm
robcap...@netscape.com
> TOP POST
"Robcap, they opened a 201 file on him when he defected in 1959. He
was still attempting to defect to hostile Communist nations in 1963
when he tried to reach Cuba, while his request to return to the USSR
was being considered."
You are assuming this is when they started the 201 file, but you can't
prove it. As for him trying to go to Cuba there is no proof of the
real LHO trying to do this either.
"He himself described himself as an agitator. Keep in mind he had
already tried to kill the right wing Walker before he got to New
Orleans."
He was playing a part. If he was a pro-communist and the right-
wingers called JFK a communist sympathizer, why would he assassinate
him?
"You seem to like questions, Robcap. Why don't you try one. If this
guy, Oswald, worked for the CIA, as you seem to assume, why did he
practically have to beg the US to get him out of the USSR when he
wanted to return?"
I ask questions because many LNers NEVER answer any, so you have to
move on. He had no trouble leaving the USSR, in fact, the government
paid for his trip home.
"Wouldn't they have treated one of their operatives a little better
than that, Robcap?"
They treated him great, paid for his trip home, did not detain him or
question him in the least. He also stayed at a swank Times Square
hotel with his bride when he came back as Marina testified to this.
How much better should they have treated an alleged "defector" who had
Top Secret information to give to our mortal enemy?
tims...@gmail.com
Hi Toots,
I think *Yellow Legs* would like a dance, Toots-E-Roll.
Why don't you take her for a dance around Dealey Plaza, under the lamp
posts there?
The lamp posts that prove your theory of Z film alteration wrong,
Toots-E-Roll.
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
tims...@gmail.com
On Apr 6, 11:29 am, "robcap...@netscape.com" <robcap...@netscape.com>
wrote:
> On Apr 5, 8:02 pm, timst...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > TOP POST
>
> "Robcap, they opened a 201 file on him when he defected in 1959. He
> was still attempting to defect to hostile Communist nations in 1963
> when he tried to reach Cuba, while his request to return to the USSR
> was being considered."
>
> You are assuming this is when they started the 201 file, but you can't
> prove it. As for him trying to go to Cuba there is no proof of the
> real LHO trying to do this either.
Well what is your theory as to when they started his 201 file? The
first documents in his file relate to his defection.
And how do you explain Oswald's application for a transit visa to
Cuba, with his signature and photo on it?
>
> "He himself described himself as an agitator. Keep in mind he had
> already tried to kill the right wing Walker before he got to New
> Orleans."
>
> He was playing a part. If he was a pro-communist and the right-
> wingers called JFK a communist sympathizer, why would he assassinate
> him?
Because he liked Fidel Castro a lot more than he liked John F Kennedy.
>
> "You seem to like questions, Robcap. Why don't you try one. If this
> guy, Oswald, worked for the CIA, as you seem to assume, why did he
> practically have to beg the US to get him out of the USSR when he
> wanted to return?"
>
> I ask questions because many LNers NEVER answer any, so you have to
> move on. He had no trouble leaving the USSR, in fact, the government
> paid for his trip home.
>
> "Wouldn't they have treated one of their operatives a little better
> than that, Robcap?"
>
> They treated him great, paid for his trip home, did not detain him or
> question him in the least. He also stayed at a swank Times Square
He was questioned by the FBI.
> hotel with his bride when he came back as Marina testified to this.
> How much better should they have treated an alleged "defector" who had
> Top Secret information to give to our mortal enemy?
>
Do CIA operatives normally have to pay of a travel loan after they
come back from behind the Iron Curtain?
You obviously have a very tenuous grip on the evidence about Oswald,
Robcap. Old Ozzie was as left wing as they come, LOL!
aeffects
music loud enough for you, paddy?
LMFAO!
tomnln
<tims...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1b346968-22e7-4a42...@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
TOP POST
Hi Toots,
I think *Yellow Legs* would like a dance, Toots-E-Roll.
Why don't you take her for a dance around Dealey Plaza, under the lamp
posts there?
The lamp posts that prove your theory of Z film alteration wrong,
Toots-E-Roll.
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
It appears that when one gives Timmy Official Citations, he Refuses to look
at them anyway.
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/zapruder%20film.htm
tims...@gmail.com
Don't forget your dance with Ms Yellow Legs, Toots-E-Roll. She's been
askin' about ya! :-)
Aww, whadda matta toots? Don't wanna dance no Z film alteration boogie
no more?
Concerned Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
> > *Newsgroup(s) Commentator*- Hide quoted text -
Walt
> still attempting to defect to hostile Communist nations in 1963 when
> he tried to reach Cuba, while his request to return to the USSR was
> being considered.
>
> He himself described himself as an agitator. Keep in mind he had
> already tried to kill the right wing Walker before he got to New
> Orleans.
>
You seem to like questions, Robcap. Why don't you try one. If this
guy, Oswald, worked for the CIA, as you seem to assume, why did he
practically have to beg the US to get him out of the USSR when he
wanted to return?
Wouldn't they have treated one of their operatives a little better
than that, Robcap?
This stupid question reveals an unthinking brain.
Oswald was a US intelligence agent in Russia. Do you think the State
Department would have ACTED like they wanted him out of the USSR?
Even if they really did want him to return to the U.S., they would
have stalled and acted like they had no real interest in him. It's
highly likely that they really didn't want him to return so soon....He
was sending back useful intelligence and had married a Russian girl,
so he had set himself up nicely as a trusted citizen of the USSR.
The State Department hated to see that go down the tubes.
aeffects
> askin' about ya! :-)
>
> Aww, whadda matta toots? Don't wanna dance no Z film alteration boogie
> no more?
hey douche-bag before any of that, you gotta tell us if your boffing
Slamming Sammy Brown's MD Surgeon room-mate, be careful down there
Melbourne way, them perv's can get VI-O-LENT
Concerned regards Affect[s]ionately yours..... LMFAO!
maestro, the music, up 10db
tims...@gmail.com
That's pretty rich coming from YOU, tomnln.
CE 2121 anyone?
LMFAO @ the little tomnln fella! :-)
Amused Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
On Apr 6, 2:47 pm, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> <timst...@gmail.com> wrote in message
tomnln
Is this from the HSCA Volumes Timmy????
<tims...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:45d3eed1-bcaa-4c9e...@1g2000prf.googlegroups.com...