David Von Pein's "Trivia".

[Ben Holmes]

> Despite the fact that conspiracy theorists have knowledge of Secret
> Service Agent John Howlett's reconstruction times of 78 seconds and 74
> seconds, how many times have conspiracy believers nevertheless asserted
> (incorrectly) that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't have enough time to make the
> journey from the sixth floor to the second floor of the Book Depository in
> order to encounter Dallas policeman Marrion L. Baker in the lunchroom
> approximately 90 seconds after the assassination of President Kennedy?

The answer would be, every single time the topic comes up.

You see, John Howlett calmly *WALKED* the distance, but we KNOW FOR A FACT (because we have video of the event) that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE.

You also know that the recreations didn't take into account eyewitness statements that put the assassin at the window as long as 15 seconds or so AFTER the assassination.

These facts won't be pointed out in the censored forum - which explains why so many believers hang out there... they won't have their lies pointed out.

[Mark Ulrik]

Den mandag den 8. maj 2017 kl. 16.02.35 UTC+2 skrev Ben Holmes:
> > Despite the fact that conspiracy theorists have knowledge of Secret
> > Service Agent John Howlett's reconstruction times of 78 seconds and 74
> > seconds, how many times have conspiracy believers nevertheless asserted
> > (incorrectly) that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't have enough time to make the
> > journey from the sixth floor to the second floor of the Book Depository in
> > order to encounter Dallas policeman Marrion L. Baker in the lunchroom
> > approximately 90 seconds after the assassination of President Kennedy?
>
> The answer would be, every single time the topic comes up.
>
> You see, John Howlett calmly *WALKED* the distance, but we KNOW FOR A FACT (because we have video of the event) that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE.

The old perv is clueless.

[Ben Holmes]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 7:15:09 AM UTC-7, Mark Ulrik wrote:
> Den mandag den 8. maj 2017 kl. 16.02.35 UTC+2 skrev Ben Holmes:
>>> Despite the fact that conspiracy theorists have knowledge of Secret
>>> Service Agent John Howlett's reconstruction times of 78 seconds and
>>> 74 seconds, how many times have conspiracy believers nevertheless
>>> asserted (incorrectly) that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't have enough time
>>> to make the journey from the sixth floor to the second floor of the
>>> Book Depository in order to encounter Dallas policeman Marrion L.
>>> Baker in the lunchroom approximately 90 seconds after the
>>> assassination of President Kennedy?
>>
>> The answer would be, every single time the topic comes up.
>>
>> You see, John Howlett calmly *WALKED* the distance, but we KNOW FOR A
>> FACT (because we have video of the event) that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE.
>
> The old perv is clueless.

Ad hominem is merely an admission on your part that you have no evidence to refute the statement that the Warren Commission's test was dishonest.

They intentionally kept Howlett's speed low, and intentionally sped up the assassin's speed, in order to get them to meet.

An *HONEST* test would have provided Oswald with an alibi. They couldn't do that.

You lost!

[Mark Ulrik]

Den mandag den 8. maj 2017 kl. 16.23.14 UTC+2 skrev Ben Holmes:
> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 7:15:09 AM UTC-7, Mark Ulrik wrote:
> > Den mandag den 8. maj 2017 kl. 16.02.35 UTC+2 skrev Ben Holmes:
> >>> Despite the fact that conspiracy theorists have knowledge of Secret
> >>> Service Agent John Howlett's reconstruction times of 78 seconds and
> >>> 74 seconds, how many times have conspiracy believers nevertheless
> >>> asserted (incorrectly) that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't have enough time
> >>> to make the journey from the sixth floor to the second floor of the
> >>> Book Depository in order to encounter Dallas policeman Marrion L.
> >>> Baker in the lunchroom approximately 90 seconds after the
> >>> assassination of President Kennedy?
> >>
> >> The answer would be, every single time the topic comes up.
> >>
> >> You see, John Howlett calmly *WALKED* the distance, but we KNOW FOR A
> >> FACT (because we have video of the event) that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE.
> >
> > The old perv is clueless.
>
>
> Ad hominem is merely an admission on your part that you have no evidence to refute the statement that the Warren Commission's test was dishonest.
>
> They intentionally kept Howlett's speed low, and intentionally sped up the assassin's speed, in order to get them to meet.
>
> An *HONEST* test would have provided Oswald with an alibi. They couldn't do that.
>
> You lost!

No, you lost when you made that meaningless comparison.

[Ben Holmes]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 7:30:17 AM UTC-7, Mark Ulrik wrote:
> Den mandag den 8. maj 2017 kl. 16.23.14 UTC+2 skrev Ben Holmes:
> > On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 7:15:09 AM UTC-7, Mark Ulrik wrote:
> > > Den mandag den 8. maj 2017 kl. 16.02.35 UTC+2 skrev Ben Holmes:
> > >>> Despite the fact that conspiracy theorists have knowledge of Secret
> > >>> Service Agent John Howlett's reconstruction times of 78 seconds and
> > >>> 74 seconds, how many times have conspiracy believers nevertheless
> > >>> asserted (incorrectly) that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't have enough time
> > >>> to make the journey from the sixth floor to the second floor of the
> > >>> Book Depository in order to encounter Dallas policeman Marrion L.
> > >>> Baker in the lunchroom approximately 90 seconds after the
> > >>> assassination of President Kennedy?
> > >>
> > >> The answer would be, every single time the topic comes up.
> > >>
> > >> You see, John Howlett calmly *WALKED* the distance, but we KNOW FOR A
> > >> FACT (because we have video of the event) that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE.
> > >
> > > The old perv is clueless.
> >
> >
> > Ad hominem is merely an admission on your part that you have no evidence to refute the statement that the Warren Commission's test was dishonest.
> >
> > They intentionally kept Howlett's speed low, and intentionally sped up the assassin's speed, in order to get them to meet.
> >
> > An *HONEST* test would have provided Oswald with an alibi. They couldn't do that.
> >
> > You lost!
>
> No, you lost when you made that meaningless comparison.

I provided FACTS... and I can easily cite for them.

You provided merely ad hominem.

You lost.

[Mark Ulrik]

Who did Howlett stand in for? Baker or Oswald? Will you continue lying about it, or (for once in your life) man up and admit that you goofed?

[Ben Holmes]

He stood in for the alleged assassin. It's true that I was reading Baker's testimony and missed it. Although I've correctly posted this in the past, I certainly missed it this time. I don't have a problem correcting *MY* errors... but for a believer to admit he lied is virtually impossible.

But I've long known you to be a moron, you've illustrated it with this post... you ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to publicly acknowledge the fact that the Warren Commission intentionally gamed the "recreation" to make it work.

Now, do you have the courage to admit that there is witness testimony putting the assassin at the window for up to 15 seconds?

Do you have the courage to admit that Baker **WALKED** in the recreation? (And, to be correct, "trotted" in the second attempt.)

Do you have any courage at all?

Do you have any honesty at all?

Or are you a moron?

[David Von Pein]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:02:35 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > Despite the fact that conspiracy theorists have knowledge of Secret
> > Service Agent John Howlett's reconstruction times of 78 seconds and 74
> > seconds, how many times have conspiracy believers nevertheless asserted
> > (incorrectly) that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't have enough time to make the
> > journey from the sixth floor to the second floor of the Book Depository in
> > order to encounter Dallas policeman Marrion L. Baker in the lunchroom
> > approximately 90 seconds after the assassination of President Kennedy?
>
> The answer would be, every single time the topic comes up.
>
> You see, John Howlett calmly *WALKED* the distance, but we KNOW FOR A FACT (because we have video of the event) that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE.
>

Right. Which means that the Warren Commission (and John Howlett) were bending over backwards to give Oswald the benefit of every doubt --- i.e., they only had Howlett WALKING the distance between the 6th and 2nd floors, even though the WC likely knew that Oswald was actually moving MUSCH FASTER than just a "walking" or a "fast walking" speed.

Therefore, Oswald was given a BREAK as far as those re-enactments by Howlett were concerned. And yet Howlett STILL managed to get to the second floor in less than 80 seconds each time --- even though I still hear CTers to this day telling me that Oswald didn't have a prayer of making it down to the lunchroom in even NINETY seconds.

But, quite obviously, given the results of Agent Howlett's tests, even if LHO was WALKING the whole distance, he still could easily have gotten to the 2nd floor in well under 90 seconds, thereby beating Officer Baker to the lunchroom.

[David Von Pein]

BEN HOLMES SAID:

...we KNOW FOR A FACT (because we have video of the event) that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

There's no video of Marrion Baker's re-enactment (that I'm aware of). Provide a link to it---if there is one (which I'm pretty sure there isn't).

[Ben Holmes]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 11:33:43 AM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:02:35 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>>> Despite the fact that conspiracy theorists have knowledge of Secret
>>> Service Agent John Howlett's reconstruction times of 78 seconds and 74
>>> seconds, how many times have conspiracy believers nevertheless asserted
>>> (incorrectly) that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't have enough time to make the
>>> journey from the sixth floor to the second floor of the Book Depository
>>> in order to encounter Dallas policeman Marrion L. Baker in the lunchroom
>>> approximately 90 seconds after the assassination of President Kennedy?
>>
>> The answer would be, every single time the topic comes up.
>>
>> You see, John Howlett calmly *WALKED* the distance, but we KNOW FOR A
> FACT (because we have video of the event) that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE.
>>
>
> Right. Which means that the Warren Commission (and John Howlett) were
> bending over backwards to give Oswald the benefit of every doubt ---
> i.e., they only had Howlett WALKING the distance between the 6th and
> 2nd floors, even though the WC likely knew that Oswald was actually
> moving MUSCH FASTER than just a "walking" or a "fast walking" speed.

YOU'RE A DESPICABLE LIAR - DAVID VON PEIN!!!

If an *HONEST* person wanted to give "Oswald" the benefit of doubt, they would have had Howlett stand at the window for 15 seconds, then carefully place the rifle BENEATH the boxes (you know, and I know that he merely walked past and waved his arms as if he were tossing a rifle...)

HOWLETT WOULD HAVE MOVED **SLOWER** - NOT FASTER!!!

Then BAKER would have **RUN** as he was videotaped doing on 11/22. (Not slower, as he did in the recreation.)

**THAT** would have given "Oswald" the benefit of doubt.

Instead, everything was precisely the opposite... Howlett moved quickly, and BAKER SIMPLY WALKED. (Or "trotted" ... which is not a run...)

SO YOU'RE EITHER INCREDIBLY *STUPID* AND UNABLE TO FOLLOW SIMPLE LOGIC, OR YOU'RE A DESPICABLE LIAR...

Which is it David?

You can't follow that "giving Oswald the benefit" would be PRECISELY OPPOSITE TO WHAT WAS DONE IN THE RECREATION - or you *do* understand it and simply lied?

Which is it, David? Liar or Stupid?

> Therefore, Oswald was given a BREAK as far as those re-enactments by
> Howlett were concerned.

I DARE YOU to defend this ridiculous claim. I DEFY YOU TO MAKE A LOGICAL ARGUMENT THAT IT WAS TO OSWALD'S BENEFIT TO HAVE HOWLETT MOVE FAST AND BAKER TO MOVE SLOW.

You're a GUTLESS LIAR (or incredibly stupid.)


If *I* wanted to "save" Oswald - and I were conducting the "recreation" - I would have forced Howlett to move *SLOWER* (since we have EVIDENCE THAT THE ASSASSIN *DID* MOVE SLOWER), and I would force Baker to RUN THE SAME AS HE DID ON 11/22/63.

*THAT* would have resulted in no meeting...

If the Warren Commission wanted to fry Oswald - they would have Howlett move as quickly as he could - WHICH HE PROVABLY DID - at least insofar as the waiting at the window goes... and I would have slowed Baker down as much as possible - so Howlett could arrive earlier.

WHICH BAKER PROVABLY **DID** (with his "walk" or "trot")


IF YOU WERE AN HONEST MAN, DAVID VON PEIN, YOU'D REFUTE WHAT I JUST STATED, AND GIVE **YOUR** LOGICAL EXPLANATION...

But you won't.

> And yet Howlett STILL managed to get to the second floor in less than 80
> seconds each time --- even though I still hear CTers to this day telling
> me that Oswald didn't have a prayer of making it down to the lunchroom
> in even NINETY seconds.
>
> But, quite obviously, given the results of Agent Howlett's tests, even
> if LHO was WALKING the whole distance, he still could easily have gotten
> to the 2nd floor in well under 90 seconds, thereby beating Officer Baker
> to the lunchroom.

Minus the 15 seconds at the window, minus the *REAL* time of hiding the rifle.

Do you suppose *EVERYONE* is as stupid as your fellow believers who won't point these facts out?

"Conan," for example, who pretends to be a critic, yet he's not correcting you on these facts.

>> You also know that the recreations didn't take into account eyewitness
>> statements that put the assassin at the window as long as 15 seconds
>> or so AFTER the assassination.

Dead silence...

>> These facts won't be pointed out in the censored forum - which explains
>> why so many believers hang out there... they won't have their lies
>> pointed out.

Crickets...

[Ben Holmes]

We know for a fact that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE on 11/22/63.

Let me guess... you didn't know this.

If you did, you wouldn't have confused it with a nonexistent video of the recreation.

Did you really think that anyone wanted a video record of what Baker and Howlett actually did???

[David Von Pein]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 6:18:38 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 11:33:43 AM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> > On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:02:35 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> >>> Despite the fact that conspiracy theorists have knowledge of Secret
> >>> Service Agent John Howlett's reconstruction times of 78 seconds and 74
> >>> seconds, how many times have conspiracy believers nevertheless asserted
> >>> (incorrectly) that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't have enough time to make the
> >>> journey from the sixth floor to the second floor of the Book Depository
> >>> in order to encounter Dallas policeman Marrion L. Baker in the lunchroom
> >>> approximately 90 seconds after the assassination of President Kennedy?
> >>
> >> The answer would be, every single time the topic comes up.
> >>
> >> You see, John Howlett calmly *WALKED* the distance, but we KNOW FOR A
> > FACT (because we have video of the event) that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE.
> >>
> >
> > Right. Which means that the Warren Commission (and John Howlett) were
> > bending over backwards to give Oswald the benefit of every doubt ---
> > i.e., they only had Howlett WALKING the distance between the 6th and
> > 2nd floors, even though the WC likely knew that Oswald was actually
> > moving MUSCH FASTER than just a "walking" or a "fast walking" speed.
>
>
> YOU'RE A DESPICABLE LIAR - DAVID VON PEIN!!!
>
> If an *HONEST* person wanted to give "Oswald" the benefit of doubt, they would have had Howlett stand at the window for 15 seconds, then carefully place the rifle BENEATH the boxes (you know, and I know that he merely walked past and waved his arms as if he were tossing a rifle...)
>
> HOWLETT WOULD HAVE MOVED **SLOWER** - NOT FASTER!!!
>

LOL.

> Then BAKER would have **RUN** as he was videotaped doing on 11/22. (Not slower, as he did in the recreation.)
>

Yeah, I knew Holmes was lying his ass off when he said this earlier....

"...but we KNOW FOR A FACT (because we have video of the event) that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE." -- B. Holmes

Holmes thinks the Darnell video footage showing Baker running toward the TSBD is the same as having a video of the "event" showing Baker running all the up to the second-floor lunchroom---even though Darnell's (and/or Couch's) videos only show Officer Baker for a couple of seconds (and BEFORE Baker even reached the entrance of the Book Depository Building).

Ergo, Ben just flat-out lied. (What a surprise.)

> **THAT** would have given "Oswald" the benefit of doubt.
>
> Instead, everything was precisely the opposite... Howlett moved quickly, and BAKER SIMPLY WALKED. (Or "trotted" ... which is not a run...)
>
> SO YOU'RE EITHER INCREDIBLY *STUPID* AND UNABLE TO FOLLOW SIMPLE LOGIC, OR YOU'RE A DESPICABLE LIAR...
>
> Which is it David?
>
> You can't follow that "giving Oswald the benefit" would be PRECISELY OPPOSITE TO WHAT WAS DONE IN THE RECREATION - or you *do* understand it and simply lied?
>

You're nuts. The WC definitely gave Oswald (Howlett) MORE time than was needed. And in my book, I'd call that giving someone the "benefit of the doubt"/ And your extra "15 seconds" isn't a time that has been verified (nor could it be). Brennan did say that Oswald stood and admired his feat for a few seconds, but that's hardly "15 seconds". And it sure as heck doesn't take any time at all to drop a gun into a stack of book cartons. CTers like Walt Cakebread want to make this task sound arduous and time-consuming, and it just is not at all.

> Which is it, David? Liar or Stupid?
>

Which is it, Ben -- are you goofy or retarded? I can't figure out which anymore.

>
> > Therefore, Oswald was given a BREAK as far as those re-enactments by
> > Howlett were concerned.
>
>
> I DARE YOU to defend this ridiculous claim. I DEFY YOU TO MAKE A LOGICAL ARGUMENT THAT IT WAS TO OSWALD'S BENEFIT TO HAVE HOWLETT MOVE FAST AND BAKER TO MOVE SLOW.
>

The kook named Holmes has lost me completely here. He now seems to be implying something that I never said or implied at all. If Howlett moves FASTER (which he should have done, IMO, to simulate a reasonable speed of Oswald on Nov. 22), then of course that's NOT giving LHO any "benefit of the doubt". It's only a "benefit" for LHO if Howlett moves SLOWER---which he did in his March 20, 1964, re-enactments. He was only utilizing two WALKING speeds --- a "normal walking pace" and a "fast walk". Oswald was undoubtedly moving faster than two two speeds. And yet Howlett still beat Baker's time to the lunchroom. And Baker specifically said his 3/20/64 times were "minimum" times. I.E., he probably took LONGER than 90 seconds to get to the lunchroom on Nov. 22.

Any way you slice it (with or without any "benefit of the doubt" being given to Lee Oswald).....the re-enactments show that Oswald beats Baker to the second floor, which is exactly what really did happen, of course, on 11/22/63.

[Bud]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 6:18:38 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 11:33:43 AM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> > On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:02:35 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> >>> Despite the fact that conspiracy theorists have knowledge of Secret
> >>> Service Agent John Howlett's reconstruction times of 78 seconds and 74
> >>> seconds, how many times have conspiracy believers nevertheless asserted
> >>> (incorrectly) that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't have enough time to make the
> >>> journey from the sixth floor to the second floor of the Book Depository
> >>> in order to encounter Dallas policeman Marrion L. Baker in the lunchroom
> >>> approximately 90 seconds after the assassination of President Kennedy?
> >>
> >> The answer would be, every single time the topic comes up.
> >>
> >> You see, John Howlett calmly *WALKED* the distance, but we KNOW FOR A
> > FACT (because we have video of the event) that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE.
> >>
> >
> > Right. Which means that the Warren Commission (and John Howlett) were
> > bending over backwards to give Oswald the benefit of every doubt ---
> > i.e., they only had Howlett WALKING the distance between the 6th and
> > 2nd floors, even though the WC likely knew that Oswald was actually
> > moving MUSCH FASTER than just a "walking" or a "fast walking" speed.
>
>
> YOU'RE A DESPICABLE LIAR - DAVID VON PEIN!!!
>
> If an *HONEST* person wanted to give "Oswald" the benefit of doubt, they would have had Howlett stand at the window for 15 seconds,

Where does this "15 seconds" come from? Brennan said Oswald paused at the window "a moment".

> then carefully place the rifle BENEATH the boxes (you know, and I know that he merely walked past and waved his arms as if he were tossing a rifle...)
>
> HOWLETT WOULD HAVE MOVED **SLOWER** - NOT FASTER!!!
>
> Then BAKER would have **RUN** as he was videotaped doing on 11/22. (Not slower, as he did in the recreation.)

Did he stop and talk with people in the entrance of the TSBD in the recreation like he said he did the day of the assassination?

> **THAT** would have given "Oswald" the benefit of doubt.
>
> Instead, everything was precisely the opposite... Howlett moved quickly, and BAKER SIMPLY WALKED. (Or "trotted" ... which is not a run...)
>
> SO YOU'RE EITHER INCREDIBLY *STUPID* AND UNABLE TO FOLLOW SIMPLE LOGIC, OR YOU'RE A DESPICABLE LIAR...
>
> Which is it David?
>
> You can't follow that "giving Oswald the benefit" would be PRECISELY OPPOSITE TO WHAT WAS DONE IN THE RECREATION - or you *do* understand it and simply lied?
>
> Which is it, David? Liar or Stupid?

The only real questions is "How quickly could Oswald done the things he needed to do and gotten to the 2nd floor lunchroom". Do you have an answer to that question, Ben?

[Ben Holmes]

Laughing at being caught lying?

Or being caught *stupid*?

Clearly one or the other... since you ABSOLUTELY REFUSED to defend
your lie, or refute my logical argument given below.

>> Then BAKER would have **RUN** as he was videotaped doing on 11/22.
>> (Not slower, as he did in the recreation.)
>>
>
> Yeah, I knew Holmes was lying his ass off when he said this earlier....
>
> "...but we KNOW FOR A FACT (because we have video of the event) that
> Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE." -- B. Holmes

And yet, that's EXACTLY what we know... He was FILMED running to the
TSBD, yet in the recreation he merely "walked" or "trotted."

So who's the liar here?

You pretended not to even *know* about that film!!!

> Holmes thinks the Darnell video footage showing Baker running toward
> the TSBD is the same as having a video of the "event" showing Baker
> running all the up to the second-floor lunchroom---even though
> Darnell's (and/or Couch's) videos only show Officer Baker for a
> couple of seconds (and BEFORE Baker even reached the entrance of
> the Book Depository Building).

You've just created a strawman, then beat it to death.

But you're just molesting the neighborhood children again if you're
trying to claim that *I* said any such thing.

Can you *QUOTE* me making any such claim?

Will you stop molesting the neighborhood children long enough to
produce a quote of me saying what you just claimed I said?

> Ergo, Ben just flat-out lied. (What a surprise.)

Actually, you just did.

Because you'll *NEVER* quote me saying what you just claimed.

>> **THAT** would have given "Oswald" the benefit of doubt.
>>
>> Instead, everything was precisely the opposite... Howlett moved
>> quickly, and BAKER SIMPLY WALKED. (Or "trotted" ... which is not
>> a run...)
>>
>> SO YOU'RE EITHER INCREDIBLY *STUPID* AND UNABLE TO FOLLOW SIMPLE
>> LOGIC, OR YOU'RE A DESPICABLE LIAR...
>>
>> Which is it David?
>>
>> You can't follow that "giving Oswald the benefit" would be PRECISELY
>> OPPOSITE TO WHAT WAS DONE IN THE RECREATION - or you *do* understand
>> it and simply lied?
>>
>
> You're nuts. The WC definitely gave Oswald (Howlett) MORE time than
> was needed.

Then simply cite where he remained at the window for 15 seconds as was
described by a witness.

But you won't.


Describe how he placed the rifle *UNDER* some boxes...

But you won't.

> And in my book, I'd call that giving someone the "benefit of the doubt"/

You're a DISGUSTING liar...

The "benefit" for "Oswald" would have been to move *SLOWER*, not
faster...

> And your extra "15 seconds" isn't a time that has been verified (nor
> could it be). Brennan did say that Oswald stood and admired his feat
> for a few seconds, but that's hardly "15 seconds". And it sure as heck
> doesn't take any time at all to drop a gun into a stack of book cartons.

You're lying again, David.

Of course, I've not even seriously touched on this topic, since we
know that Truly was running ahead of Baker by at least half a floor on
the stairs, and so time must be ADDED to Howlett's time to allow him
down the stairs AHEAD OF TRULY, not just Baker.

We also know that Baker was artificially started later... you can read
a good synopsis of this evidence in "Presumed Guilty" - available
online.

> CTers like Walt Cakebread want to make this task sound arduous and
> time-consuming, and it just is not at all.

You can't even accurately describe what was done.

>> Which is it, David? Liar or Stupid?
>>
>
> Which is it, Ben -- are you goofy or retarded? I can't figure out
> which anymore.

As predicted, you ran.

You can't defend your STUPID claim ... one that's PRECISELY the
opposite from the truth.

>>> Therefore, Oswald was given a BREAK as far as those re-enactments by
>>> Howlett were concerned.
>>
>>
>> I DARE YOU to defend this ridiculous claim. I DEFY YOU TO MAKE A LOGICAL
>> ARGUMENT THAT IT WAS TO OSWALD'S BENEFIT TO HAVE HOWLETT MOVE FAST AND
>> BAKER TO MOVE SLOW.
>>
>
> The kook named Holmes has lost me completely here. He now seems to
> be implying something that I never said or implied at all. If Howlett
> moves FASTER (which he should have done, IMO, to simulate a reasonable
> speed of Oswald on Nov. 22), then of course that's NOT giving LHO any
> "benefit of the doubt".

Which is, of course, what happened.

> It's only a "benefit" for LHO if Howlett moves SLOWER---which he did
> in his March 20, 1964, re-enactments.

This *IS* what I stated, moron!!!

And *NO*, he did *NOT* move "slower" - you can't cite any evidence at
all for this lie on your part!

> He was only utilizing two WALKING speeds --- a "normal walking pace" and
> a "fast walk". Oswald was undoubtedly moving faster than two two speeds.
> And yet Howlett still beat Baker's time to the lunchroom. And Baker
> specifically said his 3/20/64 times were "minimum" times. I.E., he
> probably took LONGER than 90 seconds to get to the lunchroom on Nov. 22.

Nope... once again, you're a liar.

Even a MORON LIKE YOU should be able to figure out that someone
"walking" or "trotting" isn't going to get you somewhere FASTER than
running.

Even *YOU* admit that Baker was provably running on 11/22/63.

So tell us why he "walked" and "trotted" during his recreation...

Or run like the yellow coward you are yet again...

> Any way you slice it (with or without any "benefit of the doubt" being
> given to Lee Oswald).....the re-enactments show that Oswald beats Baker
> to the second floor, which is exactly what really did happen, of
> course, on 11/22/63.

You clearly *REFUSED* to defend your lie.

You had NOTHING to refute my clear and obvious logic that "Oswald" did
*NOT* receive any "benefit" from the speed of Howlett, and the
slowness of Baker.

YOU WERE TRYING TO PAWN OFF THE PRECISE OPPOSITE!!!

>> You're a GUTLESS LIAR (or incredibly stupid.)
>>
>>
>> If *I* wanted to "save" Oswald - and I were conducting the "recreation"
>> - I would have forced Howlett to move *SLOWER* (since we have EVIDENCE
>> THAT THE ASSASSIN *DID* MOVE SLOWER), and I would force Baker to RUN
>> THE SAME AS HE DID ON 11/22/63.

Other reasons for moving slower was navigating boxes that were no
longer there when Howlett did the recreation... cycling the weapon,
which took 2.3 seconds...

>> *THAT* would have resulted in no meeting...
>>
>> If the Warren Commission wanted to fry Oswald - they would have Howlett
>> move as quickly as he could - WHICH HE PROVABLY DID - at least insofar
>> as the waiting at the window goes... and I would have slowed Baker
>> down as much as possible - so Howlett could arrive earlier.
>>
>> WHICH BAKER PROVABLY **DID** (with his "walk" or "trot")
>>
>>
>> IF YOU WERE AN HONEST MAN, DAVID VON PEIN, YOU'D REFUTE WHAT I JUST
>> STATED, AND GIVE **YOUR** LOGICAL EXPLANATION...
>>
>> But you won't.

The gutless child molester stays silent... just as I predicted...

>>> And yet Howlett STILL managed to get to the second floor in less than 80
>>> seconds each time --- even though I still hear CTers to this day telling
>>> me that Oswald didn't have a prayer of making it down to the lunchroom
>>> in even NINETY seconds.
>>>
>>> But, quite obviously, given the results of Agent Howlett's tests, even
>>> if LHO was WALKING the whole distance, he still could easily have gotten
>>> to the 2nd floor in well under 90 seconds, thereby beating Officer Baker
>>> to the lunchroom.
>>
>> Minus the 15 seconds at the window, minus the *REAL* time of hiding
>> the rifle.

And the time to cycle the bolt... plus the time to navigate the boxes
that were no longer there.

>> Do you suppose *EVERYONE* is as stupid as your fellow believers who
>> won't point these facts out?
>>
>> "Conan," for example, who pretends to be a critic, yet he's not
>> correcting you on these facts.

Did I hit the nail on the head, or not?

>>>> You also know that the recreations didn't take into account eyewitness
>>>> statements that put the assassin at the window as long as 15 seconds
>>>> or so AFTER the assassination.
>>
>> Dead silence...
>>
>>
>>>> These facts won't be pointed out in the censored forum - which explains
>>>> why so many believers hang out there... they won't have their lies
>>>> pointed out.
>>
>> Crickets...

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

[Ben Holmes]

On Mon, 8 May 2017 16:37:18 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>

wrote:

>On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 6:18:38 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>>
>> Which is it David?
>>
>> You can't follow that "giving Oswald the benefit" would be PRECISELY OPPOSITE TO WHAT WAS DONE IN THE RECREATION - or you *do* understand it and simply lied?
>>
>> Which is it, David? Liar or Stupid?
>
> The only real questions is "How quickly could Oswald done the things he needed to do and gotten to the 2nd floor lunchroom". Do you have an answer to that question, Ben?

Looks like you agree that David is either a liar or stupid. But why
don't you pick one?

Then ANSWER THE QUESTION if you want answers to your questions.

[David Von Pein]

BUD SAID:

Where does this "15 seconds" come from? Brennan said Oswald paused at the window "a moment".

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Yes, Bud, in the 1964 CBS interview below, Howard Brennan did say that Oswald paused for only "a moment". In his Warren Commission testimony, Brennan said this [at 3 H 144]:

DAVID BELIN -- "Would you describe just exactly what you saw when you saw him this last time?"

HOWARD BRENNAN -- "Well, as it appeared to me he was standing up and resting against the left window sill, with gun shouldered to his right shoulder, holding the gun with his left hand and taking positive aim and fired his last shot. As I calculate a couple of seconds. He drew the gun back from the window as though he was drawing it back to his side and maybe paused for another second as though to assure hisself that he hit his mark, and then he disappeared."

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0KFei3W7bGORC0xTldlOXVVckE/view

As we can see, there's not much difference between Brennan's WC testimony and the CBS video. In neither instance does it add up to any "15 seconds". So I guess Ben Holmes must have another witness (or witnesses) in mind when he says the assassin remained at the sixth-floor window for "15 seconds". Because Howard Brennan certainly didn't state any such thing.

[Jason Burke]

Dang! You mean Holmie-boy is full of shit? Who'd'a thunk it!

[Ben Holmes]

Nope... nor did I state it was Brennan.

But why are you afraid to acknowledge the facts I listed, David?

WHY DID YOU BLATANTLY LIE AND CLAIM THAT THE WARREN COMMISSION DID THE RECREATION IN A WAY THAT WOULD "BENEFIT" OSWALD - WHEN PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE IS THE TRUTH?

Why the cowardice, David?

If you have the facts on your side, WHY IS IT THAT **YOU** KEEP RUNNING FROM THE EVIDENCE I BRING TO THE TABLE?

And where's your retraction for claiming something I never said about Baker?

[David Von Pein]

You are (of course). Just as I said.

Let me walk Holmes through it very gingerly....

When you, Kook Holmes, said this....

"we KNOW FOR A FACT (because we have video of the event) that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE."

....you were implying (i.e., lying) that a VIDEO existed of Baker having travelled "THAT DISTANCE", with "that distance", of course, being the distance from Baker's motorcycle to the second-floor lunchroom. What other "distance" could Holmes possibly be referring to?

There is no such video, of course, despite Holmes saying "WE HAVE A VIDEO OF THE EVENT".

The fuller quote (i.e., lie) by Holmes makes it quite clear that Holmes was trying to imply that a VIDEO existed of Marrion L. Baker performing one or both of his re-creations for the WC on 3/20/64, which I knew immediately was an outright lie:

"John Howlett calmly *WALKED* the distance [from the Sniper's Nest to the second-floor lunchroom], but we KNOW FOR A FACT (because we have video of the event) that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE."

Holmes was clearly implying that VIDEO existed of Baker RUNNING ALL THE WAY UP TO THE LUNCHROOM.

[David Von Pein]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:09:49 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 6:59:20 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> > BUD SAID:
> >
> > Where does this "15 seconds" come from? Brennan said Oswald paused at the window "a moment".
> >
> >
> > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> >
> > Yes, Bud, in the 1964 CBS interview below, Howard Brennan did say that Oswald paused for only "a moment". In his Warren Commission testimony, Brennan said this [at 3 H 144]:
> >
> > DAVID BELIN -- "Would you describe just exactly what you saw when you saw him this last time?"
> >
> > HOWARD BRENNAN -- "Well, as it appeared to me he was standing up and resting against the left window sill, with gun shouldered to his right shoulder, holding the gun with his left hand and taking positive aim and fired his last shot. As I calculate a couple of seconds. He drew the gun back from the window as though he was drawing it back to his side and maybe paused for another second as though to assure hisself that he hit his mark, and then he disappeared."
> >
> > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0KFei3W7bGORC0xTldlOXVVckE/view
> >
> > As we can see, there's not much difference between Brennan's WC testimony and the CBS video. In neither instance does it add up to any "15 seconds". So I guess Ben Holmes must have another witness (or witnesses) in mind when he says the assassin remained at the sixth-floor window for "15 seconds". Because Howard Brennan certainly didn't state any such thing.
>
> Nope... nor did I state it was Brennan.
>
> But why are you afraid to acknowledge the facts I listed, David?
>
> WHY DID YOU BLATANTLY LIE AND CLAIM THAT THE WARREN COMMISSION DID THE RECREATION IN A WAY THAT WOULD "BENEFIT" OSWALD - WHEN PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE IS THE TRUTH?
>

Because they did. They had Howlett moving at a snail's ("walking") pace, when they should have had him run as fast as he could. That was to the "benefit" of Oswald possibly NOT being able to make it to the lunchroom ahead of Baker.

But as it turned out, it didn't matter. Because even if Oswald had WALKED all the way (as Howlett did), he (Oswald) still would have beaten Baker to the second floor---as the reconstructions firmly prove for all time, even though nearly all CTers on the planet totally IGNORE Howlett's timed re-enactments and ignore WCR Page 152.

[Ben Holmes]

On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:18:59 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
<davev...@aol.com> wrote:

>On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:09:49 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 6:59:20 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
>> > BUD SAID:
>> >
>> > Where does this "15 seconds" come from? Brennan said Oswald paused at the window "a moment".
>> >
>> >
>> > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>> >
>> > Yes, Bud, in the 1964 CBS interview below, Howard Brennan did say that Oswald paused for only "a moment". In his Warren Commission testimony, Brennan said this [at 3 H 144]:
>> >
>> > DAVID BELIN -- "Would you describe just exactly what you saw when you saw him this last time?"
>> >
>> > HOWARD BRENNAN -- "Well, as it appeared to me he was standing up and resting against the left window sill, with gun shouldered to his right shoulder, holding the gun with his left hand and taking positive aim and fired his last shot. As I calculate a couple of seconds. He drew the gun back from the window as though he was drawing it back to his side and maybe paused for another second as though to assure hisself that he hit his mark, and then he disappeared."
>> >
>> > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0KFei3W7bGORC0xTldlOXVVckE/view
>> >
>> > As we can see, there's not much difference between Brennan's WC testimony and the CBS video. In neither instance does it add up to any "15 seconds". So I guess Ben Holmes must have another witness (or witnesses) in mind when he says the assassin remained at the sixth-floor window for "15 seconds". Because Howard Brennan certainly didn't state any such thing.
>>
>> Nope... nor did I state it was Brennan.
>>
>> But why are you afraid to acknowledge the facts I listed, David?
>>
>> WHY DID YOU BLATANTLY LIE AND CLAIM THAT THE WARREN COMMISSION DID THE RECREATION IN A WAY THAT WOULD "BENEFIT" OSWALD - WHEN PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE IS THE TRUTH?
>>
>
>Because they did. They had Howlett moving at a snail's ("walking") pace, when they should have had him run as fast as he could. That was to the "benefit" of Oswald possibly NOT being able to make it to the lunchroom ahead of Baker.

But you're lying, David.

They DID NOT have Howlett accurately recreate the alleged Oswald's
movements.

I've already pointed to the recycling of the rifle, the necessity to
squeeze between boxes that were no longer there, and the fact that the
assassin did *NOT* merely 'toss' the rifle.

Nor did they account for the fact that Truly was ahead of Baker...
Oswald MUST HAVE BEATEN TRULY as well - which would add another 5 or
10 seconds to the mix.

It's even *MORE* obvious in Baker's movements... where he ADMITS to
"walking" - when walking should never have even been considered.

So this was *NOT* a recreation in "Oswald's" favor... one that was
done accurately WOULD HAVE PROVIDED OSWALD WITH AN ALIBI.

You can't even publicly acknowledge all these points... you simply
pretend I've never posted them.

What a coward!

>But as it turned out, it didn't matter. Because even if Oswald had WALKED all the way (as Howlett did), he (Oswald) still would have beaten Baker to the second floor---as the reconstructions firmly prove for all time, even though nearly all CTers on the planet totally IGNORE Howlett's timed re-enactments and ignore WCR Page 152.

You're lying again, David.

Indeed, you've simply IGNORED all the points I raised.



>> Why the cowardice, David?

Dead silence...

>> If you have the facts on your side, WHY IS IT THAT **YOU** KEEP RUNNING FROM THE EVIDENCE I BRING TO THE TABLE?

More dead silence...

>> And where's your retraction for claiming something I never said about Baker?

Gutless coward...

[Ben Holmes]

No, I want you to QUOTE ME SAYING WHAT YOU CLAIMED I SAID.

Not your 'interpretation'...

>When you, Kook Holmes, said this....
>
>"we KNOW FOR A FACT (because we have video of the event) that Baker RAN THAT DISTANCE."
>
>....you were implying (i.e., lying) that a VIDEO existed of Baker having travelled "THAT DISTANCE",

But you know for a fact that there *IS* a video of Baker running that
distance.

And what is, "that distance"... are you honest enough to state?

> with "that distance", of course, being the distance from Baker's motorcycle to the second-floor lunchroom.

Oh?

Can you provide that video?

OR ARE YOU SIMPLY LYING LIKE THE CHILD MOLESTER YOU ARE?

> What other "distance" could Holmes possibly be referring to?

The distance shown in the film, of course.

>There is no such video, of course, despite Holmes saying "WE HAVE A VIDEO OF THE EVENT".

You're lying again, David.

You even referred to the film... so you *KNOW* it exists.

Indeed, *anyone* can look at it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2ahvtRnjKQ

Now, what distance can you see Officer Baker running?

Why are you claiming you can see him running inside the TSBD?

ANSWER THE QUESTION, PERVERT!!!

[David Von Pein]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:39:32 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:18:59 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
> <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:09:49 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> >> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 6:59:20 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> >> > BUD SAID:
> >> >
> >> > Where does this "15 seconds" come from? Brennan said Oswald paused at the window "a moment".
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> >> >
> >> > Yes, Bud, in the 1964 CBS interview below, Howard Brennan did say that Oswald paused for only "a moment". In his Warren Commission testimony, Brennan said this [at 3 H 144]:
> >> >
> >> > DAVID BELIN -- "Would you describe just exactly what you saw when you saw him this last time?"
> >> >
> >> > HOWARD BRENNAN -- "Well, as it appeared to me he was standing up and resting against the left window sill, with gun shouldered to his right shoulder, holding the gun with his left hand and taking positive aim and fired his last shot. As I calculate a couple of seconds. He drew the gun back from the window as though he was drawing it back to his side and maybe paused for another second as though to assure hisself that he hit his mark, and then he disappeared."
> >> >
> >> > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0KFei3W7bGORC0xTldlOXVVckE/view
> >> >
> >> > As we can see, there's not much difference between Brennan's WC testimony and the CBS video. In neither instance does it add up to any "15 seconds". So I guess Ben Holmes must have another witness (or witnesses) in mind when he says the assassin remained at the sixth-floor window for "15 seconds". Because Howard Brennan certainly didn't state any such thing.
> >>
> >> Nope... nor did I state it was Brennan.
> >>
> >> But why are you afraid to acknowledge the facts I listed, David?
> >>
> >> WHY DID YOU BLATANTLY LIE AND CLAIM THAT THE WARREN COMMISSION DID THE RECREATION IN A WAY THAT WOULD "BENEFIT" OSWALD - WHEN PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE IS THE TRUTH?
> >>
> >
> >Because they did. They had Howlett moving at a snail's ("walking") pace, when they should have had him run as fast as he could. That was to the "benefit" of Oswald possibly NOT being able to make it to the lunchroom ahead of Baker.
>
> But you're lying, David.
>
> They DID NOT have Howlett accurately recreate the alleged Oswald's
> movements.
>
> I've already pointed to the recycling of the rifle, the necessity to
> squeeze between boxes that were no longer there, and the fact that the
> assassin did *NOT* merely 'toss' the rifle.
>

What makes you think Howlett just "tossed" the rifle into the book stack? Where did you get that from?

Inm the 1963 "SS Film" version of John Howlett's re-creation (in the video below), we can see Howlett (moving at a snail's pace, as I said) hide a simulated rifle (stick) behind some book cartons just before he descends the stairs. He doesn't TOSS the rifle. He neatly places it down on the floor. (And I have no reason to think that Howlett did it differently when he re-created LHO's movements a few months later for the WC in March '64. The video below, however, does NOT show the same "re-enactment" that Howlett did for the WC in March. This video was shot by the SS in late November of '63 (Nov. 27th, IIRC). Howlett's hilarious "Michael Myers" like slow re-enactment begins at about the 22-minute mark...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9E6ed_4-hx6ZERoZFp2Q2puTlU/view

> Nor did they account for the fact that Truly was ahead of Baker...
> Oswald MUST HAVE BEATEN TRULY as well - which would add another 5 or
> 10 seconds to the mix.
>
> It's even *MORE* obvious in Baker's movements... where he ADMITS to
> "walking" - when walking should never have even been considered.
>

But you're totally ignoring these comments made by Baker (and this is REGARDLESS of how fast or slow he performed his re-creations for the WC)....

MARRION L. BAKER -- "We simulated the shots and by the time we got there, we did everything that I did that day, and this would be the minimum, because I am sure that I, you know, it took me a little longer.

Therefore, the WC should have SLOWED DOWN BAKER EVEN MORE (not speed him up in any way) in order to simulate more accurately the things Baker did on 11/22/63.

You're cooked, Ben. Admit it. Because any way you cut it, Oswald is going to beat Baker to that lunchroom, especially when we consider the fact that Howlett was certainly moving TOO SLOW and, per the above testimony, Baker was moving TOO FAST during his two re-enactments.

Adjusting for those two things, Oswald has plenty of time to beat Baker to the lunchroom.

[David Von Pein]

You think there's video of Baker running into the lunchroom?

> And what is, "that distance"... are you honest enough to state?
>

Given the context of your quote (where you had just gotten through talking about Howlett covering a certain "DISTANCE" (which was all the way to the lunchroom, of course), the only "DISTANCE" you could be talking about there would be a "distance" equivalent to that which Howlett had travelled---i.e., all the way into the lunchroom. (What else could it be??)

>
> > with "that distance", of course, being the distance from Baker's motorcycle to the second-floor lunchroom.
>
> Oh?
>
> Can you provide that video?
>
> OR ARE YOU SIMPLY LYING LIKE THE CHILD MOLESTER YOU ARE?
>

Boy, are you a mixed up kook. YOU are the one who IMPLIED a "Video" existed. I didn't. (Geez, what a mixed-up nutcase you are.)

>
> > What other "distance" could Holmes possibly be referring to?
>
>
> The distance shown in the film, of course.
>

Therefore, you can't possibly know how fast Baker was moving during his entire trip to the second floor. Yet you seem to KNOW just that.

>
> >There is no such video, of course, despite Holmes saying "WE HAVE A VIDEO OF THE EVENT".
>
>
> You're lying again, David.
>
> You even referred to the film... so you *KNOW* it exists.
>

But it doesn't show all the stuff you implied it shows. You should be more careful with the words you use.

> Indeed, *anyone* can look at it:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2ahvtRnjKQ
>
> Now, what distance can you see Officer Baker running?
>
> Why are you claiming you can see him running inside the TSBD?
>

Huh??? You think *I* have implied any such thing??

Take a break from this, Holmes. Because you're one mixed-up kook right now.







> ANSWER THE QUESTION, PERVERT!!!
>

Asshole!

[Ben Holmes]

On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:53:45 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein

YOU GUTLESS LYING COWARD!!!

YOU KNOW THAT THERE WAS A BOX **ON TOP** OF WHERE THE RIFLE WAS FOUND!

YOU"VE JUST **PROVEN** THAT HOWLETT CHEATED!!!

http://conspiracyjfkforum.com/images/hiddenrifle.png

LET'S HEAR YOU PUBLICLY ADMIT THAT JOHN HOWLETT, AS SHOWN IN **YOUR**
CITATION - WAS MOVING ***FASTER*** THAN WAS POSSIBLE FOR THE REAL
ASSASSIN.

>https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9E6ed_4-hx6ZERoZFp2Q2puTlU/view
>
>> Nor did they account for the fact that Truly was ahead of Baker...
>> Oswald MUST HAVE BEATEN TRULY as well - which would add another 5 or
>> 10 seconds to the mix.
>>
>> It's even *MORE* obvious in Baker's movements... where he ADMITS to
>> "walking" - when walking should never have even been considered.
>>
>
>But you're totally ignoring these comments made by Baker (and this is REGARDLESS of how fast or slow he performed his re-creations for the WC)....
>
>MARRION L. BAKER -- "We simulated the shots and by the time we got there, we did everything that I did that day, and this would be the minimum, because I am sure that I, you know, it took me a little longer.

How could it have taken longer???

HE ASSERTED THAT HE **WALKED**

Does it look like he was walking in the film you deny exists??? How is
running **SLOWER** than walking or "trotting?"

ANSWER THE QUESTION, YOU COWARD!!!

>Therefore, the WC should have SLOWED DOWN BAKER EVEN MORE (not speed him up in any way) in order to simulate more accurately the things Baker did on 11/22/63.

YOU"RE A GUTLESS LITTLE LIAR, DAVID!!!

>You're cooked, Ben. Admit it. Because any way you cut it, Oswald is going to beat Baker to that lunchroom, especially when we consider the fact that Howlett was certainly moving TOO SLOW and, per the above testimony, Baker was moving TOO FAST during his two re-enactments.
>
>Adjusting for those two things, Oswald has plenty of time to beat Baker to the lunchroom.

Adjusting it correctly AND HONESTLY would never have allowed "Oswald"
to beat Baker.

[Ben Holmes]

On Mon, 8 May 2017 20:08:08 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein

STOP MOLESTING LITTLE BOYS, YOU PERVERT!!!

[David Von Pein]

Did you see Howlett "TOSS" the rifle in the book stack?

No, you didn't.

> LET'S HEAR YOU PUBLICLY ADMIT THAT JOHN HOWLETT, AS SHOWN IN **YOUR**
> CITATION - WAS MOVING ***FASTER*** THAN WAS POSSIBLE FOR THE REAL
> ASSASSIN.
>

"FASTER"??? Are you for real?? You think Howlett's Michael Myers' imitation was FASTER than the assassin really moved across that floor on Nov. 22??

LOL.

(Holmes needs a long vacation.)

>
> >https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9E6ed_4-hx6ZERoZFp2Q2puTlU/view
> >
> >> Nor did they account for the fact that Truly was ahead of Baker...
> >> Oswald MUST HAVE BEATEN TRULY as well - which would add another 5 or
> >> 10 seconds to the mix.
> >>
> >> It's even *MORE* obvious in Baker's movements... where he ADMITS to
> >> "walking" - when walking should never have even been considered.
> >>
> >
> >But you're totally ignoring these comments made by Baker (and this is REGARDLESS of how fast or slow he performed his re-creations for the WC)....
> >
> >MARRION L. BAKER -- "We simulated the shots and by the time we got there, we did everything that I did that day, and this would be the minimum, because I am sure that I, you know, it took me a little longer.
>
>
> How could it have taken longer???
>
> HE ASSERTED THAT HE **WALKED**
>

Go gripe to Baker about it then. He's the one who gave that testimony. I didn't. I merely quoted him.

> Does it look like he was walking in the film you deny exists??? How is
> running **SLOWER** than walking or "trotting?"
>
> ANSWER THE QUESTION, YOU COWARD!!!
>
>
> >Therefore, the WC should have SLOWED DOWN BAKER EVEN MORE (not speed him up in any way) in order to simulate more accurately the things Baker did on 11/22/63.
>
>
> YOU"RE A GUTLESS LITTLE LIAR, DAVID!!!
>

You're an asshole, Ben.

>
> >You're cooked, Ben. Admit it. Because any way you cut it, Oswald is going to beat Baker to that lunchroom, especially when we consider the fact that Howlett was certainly moving TOO SLOW and, per the above testimony, Baker was moving TOO FAST during his two re-enactments.
> >
> >Adjusting for those two things, Oswald has plenty of time to beat Baker to the lunchroom.
>
>
> Adjusting it correctly AND HONESTLY would never have allowed "Oswald"
> to beat Baker.
>

And yet Oswald still beat Baker to the lunchroom. Amazing, huh??

[Jason Burke]

Let's all watch as ol' Bennie-boy becomes a bit more than a tad unhinged.

Sad.

[Bud]

I gave you the correct question to ask. Conspiracy hobbyists insist on looking at the wrong things, and they look at those wrong things incorrectly.

[Bud]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:39:32 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:18:59 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
> <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:09:49 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> >> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 6:59:20 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> >> > BUD SAID:
> >> >
> >> > Where does this "15 seconds" come from? Brennan said Oswald paused at the window "a moment".
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> >> >
> >> > Yes, Bud, in the 1964 CBS interview below, Howard Brennan did say that Oswald paused for only "a moment". In his Warren Commission testimony, Brennan said this [at 3 H 144]:
> >> >
> >> > DAVID BELIN -- "Would you describe just exactly what you saw when you saw him this last time?"
> >> >
> >> > HOWARD BRENNAN -- "Well, as it appeared to me he was standing up and resting against the left window sill, with gun shouldered to his right shoulder, holding the gun with his left hand and taking positive aim and fired his last shot. As I calculate a couple of seconds. He drew the gun back from the window as though he was drawing it back to his side and maybe paused for another second as though to assure hisself that he hit his mark, and then he disappeared."
> >> >
> >> > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0KFei3W7bGORC0xTldlOXVVckE/view
> >> >
> >> > As we can see, there's not much difference between Brennan's WC testimony and the CBS video. In neither instance does it add up to any "15 seconds". So I guess Ben Holmes must have another witness (or witnesses) in mind when he says the assassin remained at the sixth-floor window for "15 seconds". Because Howard Brennan certainly didn't state any such thing.
> >>
> >> Nope... nor did I state it was Brennan.
> >>
> >> But why are you afraid to acknowledge the facts I listed, David?
> >>
> >> WHY DID YOU BLATANTLY LIE AND CLAIM THAT THE WARREN COMMISSION DID THE RECREATION IN A WAY THAT WOULD "BENEFIT" OSWALD - WHEN PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE IS THE TRUTH?
> >>
> >
> >Because they did. They had Howlett moving at a snail's ("walking") pace, when they should have had him run as fast as he could. That was to the "benefit" of Oswald possibly NOT being able to make it to the lunchroom ahead of Baker.
>
> But you're lying, David.
>
> They DID NOT have Howlett accurately recreate the alleged Oswald's
> movements.

They didn`t know how fast Oswald traveled to get to the 2nd floor, stupid. You are pretending you have information you do not.

> I've already pointed to the recycling of the rifle, the necessity to
> squeeze between boxes that were no longer there, and the fact that the
> assassin did *NOT* merely 'toss' the rifle.

How long would those things take?

>
> Nor did they account for the fact that Truly was ahead of Baker...
> Oswald MUST HAVE BEATEN TRULY as well - which would add another 5 or
> 10 seconds to the mix.

More unknowns to add to the previous unknowns.

> It's even *MORE* obvious in Baker's movements... where he ADMITS to
> "walking" - when walking should never have even been considered.
>
> So this was *NOT* a recreation in "Oswald's" favor... one that was
> done accurately WOULD HAVE PROVIDED OSWALD WITH AN ALIBI.

There is nothing to support that claim.

[Mark Ulrik]

Thank you for finally admitting your goofy mistake. I'm sure it must have been painful (but a perv like you might actually enjoy that). Seeing that you already have your hands full with DVP and Bud, there is little point in my commenting further on your inanities.

[Ben Holmes]

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 8:59:36 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 11:12:17 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:53:45 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein

> > >Inm the 1963 "SS Film" version of John Howlett's re-creation (in the video below), we can see Howlett (moving at a snail's pace, as I said) hide a simulated rifle (stick) behind some book cartons just before he descends the stairs. He doesn't TOSS the rifle. He neatly places it down on the floor. (And I have no reason to think that Howlett did it differently when he re-created LHO's movements a few months later for the WC in March '64. The video below, however, does NOT show the same "re-enactment" that Howlett did for the WC in March. This video was shot by the SS in late November of '63 (Nov. 27th, IIRC). Howlett's hilarious "Michael Myers" like slow re-enactment begins at about the 22-minute mark...
> >
> >
> > YOU GUTLESS LYING COWARD!!!
> >
> > YOU KNOW THAT THERE WAS A BOX **ON TOP** OF WHERE THE RIFLE WAS FOUND!
> >
> > YOU"VE JUST **PROVEN** THAT HOWLETT CHEATED!!!
> >
> > http://conspiracyjfkforum.com/images/hiddenrifle.png
> >
>
> Did you see Howlett "TOSS" the rifle in the book stack?
>
> No, you didn't.

Quite the dishonest little coward, aren't you David?

You've evaded every FACT that I've posted.

You ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to post the truth.

And that makes you DESPICABLE.

[Ben Holmes]

The fact that you cover for a fellow believer says all that needs to be said about your ethics.

[Ben Holmes]

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 2:42:45 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:39:32 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:18:59 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
> > <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:09:49 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > >> On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 6:59:20 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> > >> > BUD SAID:
> > >> >
> > >> > Where does this "15 seconds" come from? Brennan said Oswald paused at the window "a moment".
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> > >> >
> > >> > Yes, Bud, in the 1964 CBS interview below, Howard Brennan did say that Oswald paused for only "a moment". In his Warren Commission testimony, Brennan said this [at 3 H 144]:
> > >> >
> > >> > DAVID BELIN -- "Would you describe just exactly what you saw when you saw him this last time?"
> > >> >
> > >> > HOWARD BRENNAN -- "Well, as it appeared to me he was standing up and resting against the left window sill, with gun shouldered to his right shoulder, holding the gun with his left hand and taking positive aim and fired his last shot. As I calculate a couple of seconds. He drew the gun back from the window as though he was drawing it back to his side and maybe paused for another second as though to assure hisself that he hit his mark, and then he disappeared."
> > >> >
> > >> > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0KFei3W7bGORC0xTldlOXVVckE/view
> > >> >
> > >> > As we can see, there's not much difference between Brennan's WC testimony and the CBS video. In neither instance does it add up to any "15 seconds". So I guess Ben Holmes must have another witness (or witnesses) in mind when he says the assassin remained at the sixth-floor window for "15 seconds". Because Howard Brennan certainly didn't state any such thing.
> > >>
> > >> Nope... nor did I state it was Brennan.
> > >>
> > >> But why are you afraid to acknowledge the facts I listed, David?
> > >>
> > >> WHY DID YOU BLATANTLY LIE AND CLAIM THAT THE WARREN COMMISSION DID THE RECREATION IN A WAY THAT WOULD "BENEFIT" OSWALD - WHEN PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE IS THE TRUTH?
> > >>
> > >
> > >Because they did. They had Howlett moving at a snail's ("walking") pace, when they should have had him run as fast as he could. That was to the "benefit" of Oswald possibly NOT being able to make it to the lunchroom ahead of Baker.
> >
> > But you're lying, David.
> >
> > They DID NOT have Howlett accurately recreate the alleged Oswald's
> > movements.
>
> They didn`t know how fast Oswald traveled to get to the 2nd floor, stupid. You are pretending you have information you do not.

They PROVABLY knew that the assassin didn't place the rifle the way that David Von Pein is claiming that it was placed in the recreation.

Tell us "Bud," why are you defending a provably false "recreation?"

[Ben Holmes]

You're lying again...

[Bud]

I`m not, stupid. I supplied you with the correct question....

"How quickly could Oswald have done the things he needed to do and gotten to the 2nd floor lunchroom?"

But that question is of no use to the silly games you enjoy playing about the deaths of these men.

[Ben Holmes]

Then you should be able to publicly agree that Howlett did not do what any assassin *MUST* have done

But it seems you're too dishonest to be able to do so...

[Bud]

I don`t use the "recreation" in support of any ideas. It is all guesswork and estimates. Tell me Ben, when Baker came in from outside, how long did he stop and talk with the people there? How long did he wait for the elevator? How long would it have taken Oswald to put the rifle in as it was found? These are questions someone who was actually interested in what occurred might ask, and find the answers unattainable. But for a retard playing silly games with the deaths of these men, this is pure gold, speculation and supposition where facts are needed.

[Bud]

The recreation I saw was worthless.

[David Von Pein]

Indeed it is. No way Oswald was moving that slowly.

Here's another SS film (with narration this time), showing the same Nov. '63 slow-as-molasses re-creation, with Howlett's March '64 WC re-enactment times being mentioned (and for CTers to totally ignore or forget about, of course)....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9E6ed_4-hx6clV0SHhkN1dESHM/view

[Ben Holmes]

It matters not at all.

You *KNOW FOR A FACT* that Howlett's recreation was incorrect - yet you're afraid to publicly state that.

That simply shows your lack of honesty.

[Ben Holmes]

[Bud]

Shoot Kennedy?

[Ben Holmes]

Gutless coward that you are, you *STILL* refuse to acknowledge that your cited film shows that Howlett did *NOT* recreate the alleged assassin's movements.

Why does the defense of the Warren Commission's theory require lies?

[Bud]

Why are you such an intellectual coward that you ran from all the points I made? Why does actually applying common sense to information frighten you so much? is it because it would interfere in the silly games you play with the deaths of these men?

> That simply shows your lack of honesty.

I ran across that reenactment a few months back. It took about 10 seconds to determine it was shit. See, since I`m not retarded I don`t obsess over things after I determine they have no value.

[Ben Holmes]

[Bud]

What film did I cite? Are you talking about the Dirty Harry clip?

> Why does the defense of the Warren Commission's theory require lies?

I don`t defend the reenactment. They should have had a young guy hustle through the motions, see how quick he could do them and get down to the 2nd floor. The fastest it could be done was something that could be reasonably determined.

[Bud]

I demand that you focus on all the wrong things and then look at the wrong things incorrectly. Be sure not to disappoint me.

[Ben Holmes]

Not only a coward, but a liar too!

[Ben Holmes]

> I demand ...

Run coward... RUN!!!

[Bud]

I command you to look at all the wrong things, and look at them incorrectly. You must, you can`t resist.