EVIDENCE THAT THE DEPOSITORY CARCANO WAS NOT OSWALD'S
Gil Jesus
In the ad that the Commission says Hidell/Oswald ordered his rifle
with, it was the 36 inch length MC that was offered with the scope.
http://i31.tinypic.com/2zsmag1.jpg
But the Depository Carcano is 40.2" long.
( 3 H 395 )
The Klein's employee who originated the idea of mounting a scope on
the rifle was Mitchell Westra. He told the House Select Committee on
Assassinations (HSCA) that Klein's only mounted the scope on the 36
inch MC.
(HSCA interview of Westra 2/20/78)
The man who actually mounted the scopes for Klein's was William Sharp,
their in-house gunsmith. He confirmed what Westra testified to: the
package deal with the scope and MC rifle was used by Klein's to market
the 36 inch MC.
(HSCA interview of Sharp, 2/21/78)
In addition, Robert Frazier testified that when the FBI ordered a
replica rifle to the 40.2" Depository Carcano from Klein's, they had
to tell Klein's where to position the scope on the rifle.
( 3 H 396 )
Frazier also testified that the scope mount was loose when he received
it for examination ( 3 H 411 ) and although he assumed that the scope
was removed in the search for fingerprints, no inquiry was ever made
by the WC to ascertain why the scope mount was loose.
So if Oswald ordered a 36" Carcano with a scope for $ 19.95 and paid $
1.50 for shipping, where did the Warren Commission's rifle -- a 40
inch MC with a loose scope mount -- come from?
LUCY......YOU GOT SOME SPLAININ' TO DO !!!
Gil Jesus
> PROBLEMS WITH THE SCOPE
>
> In the ad that the Commission says Hidell/Oswald ordered his rifle
> with, it was the 36 inch length MC that was offered with the scope.
>
> http://i31.tinypic.com/2zsmag1.jpg
>
> But the Depository Carcano is 40.2" long.
>
> ( 3 H 395 )
>
> The Klein's employee who originated the idea of mounting a scope on
> the rifle was Mitchell Westra. He told the House Select Committee on
> Assassinations (HSCA) that Klein's only mounted the scope on the 36
> inch MC.
>
> (HSCA interview of Westra 2/20/78)
>
> The man who actually mounted the scopes for Klein's was William Sharp,
> their in-house gunsmith. �He confirmed what Westra testified to: the
> package deal with the scope and MC rifle was used by Klein's to market
> the 36 inch MC.
>
> (HSCA interview of Sharp, 2/21/78)
>
> In addition, Robert Frazier testified that when the FBI ordered a
> replica rifle to the 40.2" Depository Carcano from Klein's, they had
> to tell Klein's where to position the scope on the rifle.
>
> ( 3 H 396 )
>
> Frazier also testified that the scope mount was loose when he received
> was removed in the search for fingerprints, no inquiry was ever made
> by the WC to ascertain why the scope mount was loose.
>
> So if Oswald ordered a 36" Carcano with a scope for $ 19.95 and paid $
> 1.50 for shipping, where did the Warren Commission's rifle -- a 40
> inch MC with a loose scope mount -- come from?
>
> LUCY......YOU GOT SOME SPLAININ' TO DO !!!
correction made in caps
aaronhi...@yahoo.com
that one of the witnesses who claimed to see LHO at the shooting range
said that the rifle LHO had looked like the butt had been sawed down.
As for the scope, it could not be attached as the radius of curvature
of the barrel and the radius of curvature of the mounting hardware
were different. A machinist welded shims to LHO's (sic) MC, and
attached the sight to the shims. But it still could not be adjusted
properly (see TLI by Fonzi for this).
Gil, this is old hat. Lone nutters have been ignoring facts like this
for years at this ng.
Aaron Hirshberg
Gil Jesus
<aaronhirshb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Gil, this is old hat. �Lone nutters have been ignoring facts like this
> for years at this ng.
>
> Aaron Hirshberg
Most of the unresolved issues are "old hat".
The point is that Klein's only mounted scopes on the 36" Carcanos, not
the 40".
The FBI told them how to mount the scope on the replica rifle then
Frazier LIED to the WC that the scopes on the Depository Carcano and
the replica rifle were mounted in the same way and that indicated they
were mounted by the same person.
bigdog
> >>> "The Klein's employee who originated the idea of mounting a scope on the rifle was Mitchell Westra. He told the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) that Klein's only mounted the scope on the 36 inch MC [Mannlicher-Carcano]." <<<
>
> This whole line of "conspiratorial" thought is just more idiotic
> claptrap and nonsense coming from CT-Kooks who are desperate to find
> ANY excuse to exonerate Mr. Oswald.
>
> The common-sense answer to this discrepancy is a simple one:
>
> Since Lee Harvey Oswald DID, in fact, order a "36-inch" rifle, but
> Klein's shipped Oswald/"Hidell" a 40-inch model,* and since Oswald's
> order specified that he wanted the scope to be included as part of his
> order as well, and since it was the police of Klein's to mount scopes
> for customers who ordered the 36-inch rifle and the scope as a
> "package" deal....then Klein's simply mounted the scope for Oswald's
> "package" order as if it were the 36-inch model of the Italian
> carbine.
>
> After all, it certainly wasn't Oswald's fault that Klein's was out of
> stock of the 36-inch rifle that he ordered. So why should he be
> penalized in this instance by NOT having the scope mounted?
>
> Quite obviously, in Oswald's case, Klein's didn't care that they
> normally didn't mount the scopes on the 40-inch models. Oswald ordered
> a 36-incher, and his "Rifle With Scope" package order was treated
> exactly the same as any other "36-inch" order. Thus, the scope was
> mounted on the 40-incher they mailed to him.
>
> The very same thing probably happened to several other Klein's
> customers who found themselves also receiving 40-inch Carcano rifles
> in the mail (instead of the 36-inch varieties they had actually
> ordered).
>
> Perhaps some of the Anybody-But-Oswald conspiracy kooks around here
> should do some additional leg work and try to find another person or
> two who purchased Carcano rifles from Klein's in 1963 and see if any
> of them ordered the 36-inch model but received a 40-incher instead.
>
> * = And the most-likely reason that Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago
> shipped Oswald a forty-inch weapon is pretty obvious too -- Klein's
> simply ran out of 36-inch Italian carbines and had to substitute a
> very similar rifle that was four inches longer; Oswald almost
> certainly never even noticed the difference and undoubtedly couldn't
> have cared less that he was sent a rifle that was four inches longer
> than the one in he ordered from the magazine ad.
>
> We know for a fact that Klein's advertised BOTH the "36-inch Italian
> carbine" AND the "40-inch Italian carbine" during the same calendar
> year of 1963 in various magazine advertisements. So it doesn't seem
> very unusual to me that a customer (in this case, Lee Oswald) could
> have possibly received a 40-inch weapon even though he actually
> ordered a 36-inch model.
>
> FEBRUARY 1963 KLEIN'S AD (ADVERTISING THE 36-INCH CARBINE):http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/122aa.+KLEIN%27S+AD+FE...
>
> NOVEMBER 1963 KLEIN'S AD (ADVERTISING THE 40-INCH CARBINE):http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/122a.+KLEIN%27S+AD+FEA...
David, another possibility would be that at the time, Klein's still
had both models in stock but the order filler simply grabbed the wrong
one. Shortly after graduating high school, I worked on the loading
dock of a discount store. Customers who bought large bulky items would
drive around to the loading dock to pick them up and one of my jobs
was to fill these orders. When I first started, I was unaware that we
had items in similar packages that weren't exactly the same. Example,
we had several types of cement. A mortar mix, sand mix, and coarse
gravel mix, all in the same style blue bags. When I first started out,
I didn't understand the difference and thought it was all the same
product. On several occassions, I would bring the wrong item to the
dock and get corrected either by my supervisor or the customer.
Now I have no way of knowing whether this is why Oswald got a
different length rifle than the one he ordered, but I think it is
quite possible that the order filler, being the low man on the totem
pole, simply grabbed a rifle from the wrong bin, not realizing there
were two different length of Carcanos in stock.
David Von Pein
>>> "The Klein's employee who originated the idea of mounting a scope on the rifle was Mitchell Westra. He told the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) that Klein's only mounted the scope on the 36-inch MC [Mannlicher-Carcano]." <<<
This whole line of "conspiratorial" thought is just more idiotic
claptrap and nonsense coming from CT-Kooks who are desperate to find
ANY excuse to exonerate Mr. Oswald.
The common-sense answer to this discrepancy is a simple one:
Since Lee Harvey Oswald DID, in fact, order a "36-inch" rifle, but
Klein's shipped Oswald/"Hidell" a 40-inch model,* and since Oswald's
order specified that he wanted the scope to be included as part of his
order as well, and since it was Klein's policy to mount scopes for
customers who ordered both the 36-inch rifle and the scope as a
"package" deal....then Klein's simply mounted the scope for Oswald's
"package" order as if it were the 36-inch model of the Italian
carbine.
After all, it certainly wasn't Oswald's fault that Klein's was out of
stock of the 36-inch rifle that he ordered. So why should he be
penalized in this instance by NOT having the scope mounted?
Quite obviously, in Oswald's case, Klein's didn't care that they
normally didn't mount the scopes on the 40-inch models. Oswald ordered
a 36-incher, and his "Rifle With Scope" package order was treated
exactly the same as any other "36-inch" order. Thus, the scope was
mounted on the 40-incher they mailed to him.
The very same thing probably happened to several other Klein's
customers who found themselves also receiving 40-inch Carcano rifles
in the mail (instead of the 36-inch varieties they had actually
ordered).
Perhaps some of the Anybody-But-Oswald conspiracy kooks around here
should do some additional leg work and try to find another person or
two who purchased Carcano rifles from Klein's in 1963 to see if any of
them ordered the 36-inch model but received a 40-incher instead.
In addition, the Warren Commission testimony of Klein's Vice-President
William Waldman indicates (in no uncertain terms) that the 4X scope
that Oswald/Hidell ordered via catalog number C20-T750 was almost
certainly mounted by Klein's on the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle (serial
#C2766) that was shipped to Lee Oswald's post-office box in Dallas,
Texas, in March 1963. Here's the pertinent testimony from Waldman in
this regard:
DAVID W. BELIN -- "Mr. Waldman, do your records show whether or not
the rifle was shipped with the scope mounted on it, or is there any
way that you know whether or not it was?"
WILLIAM J. WALDMAN -- "Our catalog number C20-T750, which was the
number indicated on the coupon prepared by A. Hidell, designates a
rifle with scope attached. And we would have so shipped it unless the
customer specifically specified that he did not wish to have it
attached. There is nothing in our records to indicate that there was
any request made by the customer, and therefore we would have every
reason to believe that it was shipped as a rifle with scope mounted."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/waldman.htm
* = And the most-likely reason that Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago
shipped Oswald a forty-inch weapon is pretty obvious too -- Klein's
simply ran out of 36-inch Italian carbines and had to substitute a
very similar rifle that was four inches longer; Oswald almost
certainly never even noticed the difference and undoubtedly couldn't
have cared less that he was sent a rifle that was four inches longer
than the one he had ordered from the magazine ad.
And we know for a fact that Klein's advertised BOTH the "36-inch
Italian carbine" AND the "40-inch Italian carbine" during the same
calendar year of 1963 in various magazine advertisements (with the 36-
inch version being advertised in February, and the 40-incher showing
up in some of Klein's ads nine months later, in November).
So it doesn't seem unusual or particularly odd to me that a customer
(in this case, Lee Oswald) could have possibly received a 40-inch
weapon even though he actually ordered a 36-inch model.
FEBRUARY 1963 KLEIN'S AD (ADVERTISING THE 36-INCH CARBINE):
NOVEMBER 1963 KLEIN'S AD (ADVERTISING THE 40-INCH CARBINE):
Walt
> PROBLEMS WITH THE SCOPE
>
In the ad that the Commission says Hidell/Oswald ordered his rifle
with, it was the 36 inch length MC that was offered with the scope.
http://i31.tinypic.com/2zsmag1.jpg
Very good....Now let's check the ad for accuracy.... First off you
should know that ALL mannlicher Carcanos have an identical
magazine.....ALL carcanos have a magazine that is 6+3/4 inches
long. Now use that information to find that the rifle in the
illustration is 40 inches long.....
Here's how.... Enlarge that picture to a nice large size. ....... Then
measure the length of the magazine on the rifle in your enlargement.
Let's say that you measure that magazine as being 1+3/4 inches
long.... So then you know that 1+3/4 is equal to 6+3/4 inches. Now
divide 6 3/4" by 1 3/4" to find that the actual rifle would be 3.857
times bigger than your picture. Now measure the length of the rifle
in your picture and find that it is 10 3/8 " long. ( my enlargement)
Then simply multiply 10 3/8" X 3.857 and find that the rifle in the
illustatration is 40.016 inches long.
But the Depository Carcano is 40.2" long.
That's correct and so was the carcano in the illustration. The ad
clearly says ....AS ILLUSATRATED... the 36 inch dimension given was
simply a device to make the rifle more appealing to those who were
looking for a very short rifle. (Hunting in heavy brush)
>
> ( 3 H 395 )
>
The Klein's employee who originated the idea of mounting a scope on
the rifle was Mitchell Westra. He told the House Select Committee on
Assassinations (HSCA) that Klein's only mounted the scope on the 36
inch MC.
This doesn't even make sense..... The reason for a scope on a rifle is
to enable the shooter to fire more accurately at longer range. A
scope enables a shooter to fire a LONG range rifle with a LONG barrel
more accurately. A 36 inch rifle obviously is a SHORT range gun. Only
a idiot unfamiliar with firearms would put a scope on a short range
brush gun.
>
> (HSCA interview of Westra 2/20/78)
>
> The man who actually mounted the scopes for Klein's was William Sharp,
> their in-house gunsmith. He confirmed what Westra testified to: the
> package deal with the scope and MC rifle was used by Klein's to market
> the 36 inch MC.
>
> (HSCA interview of Sharp, 2/21/78)
>
> In addition, Robert Frazier testified that when the FBI ordered a
> replica rifle to the 40.2" Depository Carcano from Klein's, they had
> to tell Klein's where to position the scope on the rifle.
>
> ( 3 H 396 )
>
> Frazier also testified that the scope mount was loose when he received
> it for examination ( 3 H 411 ) and although he assumed that the scope
> was removed in the search for fingerprints, no inquiry was ever made
> by the WC to ascertain why the scope mount was loose.
>
> So if Oswald ordered a 36" Carcano with a scope for $ 19.95 and paid $
> 1.50 for shipping, where did the Warren Commission's rifle -- a 40
> inch MC with a loose scope mount -- come from?
>
> LUCY......YOU GOT SOME SPLAININ' TO DO !!!
Never Mind Lucy.... He's dizzy
Walt
> On Sep 18, 8:30 am, "aaronhirshb...@yahoo.com"
>
> <aaronhirshb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Gil, this is old hat. Lone nutters have been ignoring facts like this
> > for years at this ng.
>
> > Aaron Hirshberg
>
> Most of the unresolved issues are "old hat".
>
> The point is that Klein's only mounted scopes on the 36" Carcanos, not
> the 40".
Gil wrote:...."The point is that Klein's only mounted scopes on the
36" Carcanos, not the 40".
If you've done the math....then you KNOW that this statement simply is
NOT true.... Because the Klein illustration clearly shows a scope
mounted on a 40 inch long Mannlicher Carcano.
Walt
Oswald didn't SPECIFY .... He merely ordered the rifle illustrated.
And the rifle in the illustartion is a 40 inch long model 91/38
Mannlicher Carcano short rifle.
>
> FEBRUARY 1963 KLEIN'S AD (ADVERTISING THE 36-INCH CARBINE):http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/122aa.+KLEIN%27S+AD+FE...
>
> NOVEMBER 1963 KLEIN'S AD (ADVERTISING THE 40-INCH CARBINE):http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/122a.+KLEIN%27S+AD+FEA...
Robert
> On Sep 18, 8:30 am, "aaronhirshb...@yahoo.com"
>
> <aaronhirshb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Gil, this is old hat. Lone nutters have been ignoring facts like this
> > for years at this ng.
>
> > Aaron Hirshberg
>
> Most of the unresolved issues are "old hat".
>
> The point is that Klein's only mounted scopes on the 36" Carcanos, not
> the 40".
Great stuff Gil! The other point is Klein's ONLY had 36" Carbines in
stock at the alleged time of the order, so they had NO 40" Carcanos to
ship even "by accident" as Walt and other LNers claim.
John Armstrong did great research into this area and CJ has posted it
before.
Robert
> >>> "The Klein's employee who originated the idea of mounting a scope on the rifle was Mitchell Westra. He told the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) that Klein's only mounted the scope on the 36-inch MC [Mannlicher-Carcano]." <<<
>
> This whole line of "conspiratorial" thought is just more idiotic
> claptrap and nonsense coming from CT-Kooks who are desperate to find
> ANY excuse to exonerate Mr. Oswald.
>
> The common-sense answer to this discrepancy is a simple one:
>
> Since Lee Harvey Oswald DID, in fact, order a "36-inch" rifle, but
> Klein's shipped Oswald/"Hidell" a 40-inch model,* and since Oswald's
> order specified that he wanted the scope to be included as part of his
> order as well, and since it was Klein's policy to mount scopes for
> customers who ordered both the 36-inch rifle and the scope as a
> "package" deal....then Klein's simply mounted the scope for Oswald's
> "package" order as if it were the 36-inch model of the Italian
> carbine.
Where is your evidence/proof that a 40" Carcano was shipped to LHO and
that he took possession of it. I have asked you this many times
before, perhaps you found some since you are STATING IT LIKE IT IS A
FACT!
Explain how they could ship something they did NOT have in stock to us
David.
> After all, it certainly wasn't Oswald's fault that Klein's was out of
> stock of the 36-inch rifle that he ordered. So why should he be
> penalized in this instance by NOT having the scope mounted?
So they were out of stock of the 36" Carbines, huh? Where is your
evidence/proof for this claim?
I wish this logic worked everywhere! I could go to the Mercedes
dealership at the end of the model year and say I want a low priced
model (obviously low priced is still a lot) that I know is out of
stock and they would have to give me any OTHER HIGHER PRICED TYPE OF
MODEL FOR THE SAME PRICE based on David's (and all other LNers)
thinking!! Wouldn't life be grand IF things worked like this?
> Quite obviously, in Oswald's case, Klein's didn't care that they
> normally didn't mount the scopes on the 40-inch models.
More assumption FOR KLEIN'S BY David with NO evidence/proof to back it
up!
>Oswald ordered
> a 36-incher, and his "Rifle With Scope" package order was treated
> exactly the same as any other "36-inch" order. Thus, the scope was
> mounted on the 40-incher they mailed to him.
LOL!! I guess Dave missed the part about they ONLY MOUNTED SCOPES ON
THE 36" MODELS, huh?
> The very same thing probably happened to several other Klein's
> customers who found themselves also receiving 40-inch Carcano rifles
> in the mail (instead of the 36-inch varieties they had actually
> ordered).
Thanks for bringing this up. It is a very valid point and it could
have made this farce more credible IF the WC could have found "one of
these other customers", but to date they didn't. Have you found one?
Can you name one or more and provide the dreaded evidence/proof for
us?
> Perhaps some of the Anybody-But-Oswald conspiracy kooks around here
> should do some additional leg work and try to find another person or
> two who purchased Carcano rifles from Klein's in 1963 to see if any of
> them ordered the 36-inch model but received a 40-incher instead.
Of course NOT! IT is our job to do HIS work for him! Why does he
think we should have to do the work of the prosecutor???
It is like Ben claiming the FBI had jurisdiction for all felonies and
then making me try and disprove HIS CLAIM with cites!
It doesn't work that way Dave.
> In addition, the Warren Commission testimony of Klein's Vice-President
> William Waldman indicates (in no uncertain terms) that the 4X scope
> that Oswald/Hidell ordered via catalog number C20-T750 was almost
> certainly mounted by Klein's on the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle (serial
> #C2766) that was shipped to Lee Oswald's post-office box in Dallas,
> Texas, in March 1963. Here's the pertinent testimony from Waldman in
> this regard:
Testimony will only get you so far, the evidence shows us differently.
> DAVID W. BELIN -- "Mr. Waldman, do your records show whether or not
> the rifle was shipped with the scope mounted on it, or is there any
> way that you know whether or not it was?"
>
> WILLIAM J. WALDMAN -- "Our catalog number C20-T750, which was the
> number indicated on the coupon prepared by A. Hidell, designates a
> rifle with scope attached. And we would have so shipped it unless the
> customer specifically specified that he did not wish to have it
> attached. There is nothing in our records to indicate that there was
> any request made by the customer, and therefore we would have every
> reason to believe that it was shipped as a rifle with scope mounted."
Where does he mention they mounted a scope on a 40" Carcano and
shipped it?
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/waldman.htm
>
> * = And the most-likely reason that Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago
> shipped Oswald a forty-inch weapon is pretty obvious too -- Klein's
> simply ran out of 36-inch Italian carbines and had to substitute a
> very similar rifle that was four inches longer; Oswald almost
> certainly never even noticed the difference and undoubtedly couldn't
> have cared less that he was sent a rifle that was four inches longer
> than the one he had ordered from the magazine ad.
Any proof/evidence for this claim of yours?
See, murder trials are NOT based on speculation, but instead on
evidence and proof.
> And we know for a fact that Klein's advertised BOTH the "36-inch
> Italian carbine" AND the "40-inch Italian carbine" during the same
> calendar year of 1963 in various magazine advertisements (with the 36-
> inch version being advertised in February, and the 40-incher showing
> up in some of Klein's ads nine months later, in November).
Same calendar year???? LOL!! What does that have to do with anything.
We are ONLY concerned with the time period he allegedly ordered the
rifle in -- NOT the whole year.
> So it doesn't seem unusual or particularly odd to me that a customer
> (in this case, Lee Oswald) could have possibly received a 40-inch
> weapon even though he actually ordered a 36-inch model.
Any evidence/proof for this, or do we have to settle for your BIASED
OPINION?
> FEBRUARY 1963 KLEIN'S AD (ADVERTISING THE 36-INCH CARBINE):http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/122aa.+KLEIN%27S+AD+FE...
>
> NOVEMBER 1963 KLEIN'S AD (ADVERTISING THE 40-INCH CARBINE):http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/122a.+KLEIN%27S+AD+FEA...
Robert
> On Sep 18, 7:41 am, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 18, 8:30 am, "aaronhirshb...@yahoo.com"
>
> > <aaronhirshb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Gil, this is old hat. Lone nutters have been ignoring facts like this
> > > for years at this ng.
>
> > > Aaron Hirshberg
>
> > Most of the unresolved issues are "old hat".
>
> > The point is that Klein's only mounted scopes on the 36" Carcanos, not
> > the 40".
> Gil wrote:...."The point is that Klein's only mounted scopes on the
>
> 36" Carcanos, not the 40".
>
> If you've done the math....then you KNOW that this statement simply is
> NOT true.... Because the Klein illustration clearly shows a scope
> mounted on a 40 inch long Mannlicher Carcano.
Wow, this is another newsflash -- WALLY, the self-proclaimed CTer --
IS ON THE SIDE OF THE LNERS YET AGAIN!
Come on Wally, say it ain't so???
> > The FBI told them how to mount the scope on the replica rifle then
> > Frazier LIED to the WC that the scopes on the Depository Carcano and
> > the replica rifle were mounted in the same way and that indicated they
> > were mounted by the same person.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Robert
Any evidence/proof for this speculation? Remember this?
“Speculation in the face of a lack of citation is never a winning
combination.” (Ben Holmes to Shutterbun – 8/29/09)
Ben Holmes
Robert says...
>
>On Sep 18, 11:13=A0am, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>> On Sep 18, 9:11=A0am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > >>> "The Klein's employee who originated the idea of mounting a scope o=
>n the rifle was Mitchell Westra. He told the House Select Committee on Assa=
>ssinations (HSCA) that Klein's only mounted the scope on the 36-inch MC [Ma=
>> > shipped Oswald a forty-inch weapon is pretty obvious too -- Klein's
>> > simply ran out of 36-inch Italian carbines and had to substitute a
>> > very similar rifle that was four inches longer; Oswald almost
>> > certainly never even noticed the difference and undoubtedly couldn't
>> > have cared less that he was sent a rifle that was four inches longer
>> > than the one he had ordered from the magazine ad.
>>
>> > And we know for a fact that Klein's advertised BOTH the "36-inch
>> > Italian carbine" AND the "40-inch Italian carbine" during the same
>> > calendar year of 1963 in various magazine advertisements (with the 36-
>> > inch version being advertised in February, and the 40-incher showing
>> > up in some of Klein's ads nine months later, in November).
>>
>> =A0(in this case, Lee Oswald) could have possibly received a 40-inch
>> =A0weapon even though he actually ordered a 36-inch model.
>>
>> Oswald didn't SPECIFY .... He merely ordered the rifle illustrated.
>> And the rifle in the illustartion is a 40 inch long model 91/38
>> Mannlicher Carcano short rifle.
>
>Any evidence/proof for this speculation? Remember this?
>
>combination.=94 (Ben Holmes to Shutterbun =96 8/29/09)
I find it amusing that my Fan Club President always quotes statements from me
that he quite clearly agrees with.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com
Walt
> On Sep 18, 10:11 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > >>> "The Klein's employee who originated the idea of mounting a scope on the rifle was Mitchell Westra. He told the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) that Klein's only mounted the scope on the 36-inch MC [Mannlicher-Carcano]." <<<
>
> > This whole line of "conspiratorial" thought is just more idiotic
> > claptrap and nonsense coming from CT-Kooks who are desperate to find
> > ANY excuse to exonerate Mr. Oswald.
>
> > The common-sense answer to this discrepancy is a simple one:
>
> > Since Lee Harvey Oswald DID, in fact, order a "36-inch" rifle, but
> > Klein's shipped Oswald/"Hidell" a 40-inch model,* and since Oswald's
> > order specified that he wanted the scope to be included as part of his
> > order as well, and since it was Klein's policy to mount scopes for
> > customers who ordered both the 36-inch rifle and the scope as a
> > "package" deal....then Klein's simply mounted the scope for Oswald's
> > "package" order as if it were the 36-inch model of the Italian
> > carbine.
>
The Stupid Bastard asked:..... Where is your evidence/proof that a 40"
Carcano was shipped to LHO and that he took possession of it. I have
asked you this many times before, perhaps you found some since you are
STATING IT LIKE IT IS A FACT!
You are an illiterate idiotic liar...... IF you could comprehend what
is written you'd know that I believe a 40 inch long model 91/38
Mannlicher Carcano was sent to...AJ HIDELL at PO Box 2915 in Dallas
Texas. I"ve never ever said that the rifle was sent to LEE OSWALD nor
have I stated as in indisputable FACT that Oswald picked up the
rifle.... Learn to READ ya dumb bastard!
>
> Explain how they could ship something they did NOT have in stock to us
> David.
>
> > After all, it certainly wasn't Oswald's fault that Klein's was out of
> > stock of the 36-inch rifle that he ordered. So why should he be
> > penalized in this instance by NOT having the scope mounted?
Jesus H.Christ on a skateboard!!..... There are invoices and a Bill of
lading that show that Kleins DID DID have the 40 inch Model 91/38 in
stock at the time.
>
> So they were out of stock of the 36" Carbines, huh? Where is your
> evidence/proof for this claim?
>
> I wish this logic worked everywhere! I could go to the Mercedes
> dealership at the end of the model year and say I want a low priced
> model (obviously low priced is still a lot) that I know is out of
> stock and they would have to give me any OTHER HIGHER PRICED TYPE OF
> MODEL FOR THE SAME PRICE based on David's (and all other LNers)
> thinking!! Wouldn't life be grand IF things worked like this?
>
> > Quite obviously, in Oswald's case, Klein's didn't care that they
> > normally didn't mount the scopes on the 40-inch models.
>
> More assumption FOR KLEIN'S BY David with NO evidence/proof to back it
> up!
>
> >Oswald ordered
> > a 36-incher, and his "Rifle With Scope" package order was treated
> > exactly the same as any other "36-inch" order. Thus, the scope was
> > mounted on the 40-incher they mailed to him.
>
> LOL!! I guess Dave missed the part about they ONLY MOUNTED SCOPES ON
> THE 36" MODELS, huh?
Mathematics PROVE that you are a LIAR, Caprio....( or whatever your
true name is)
> > NOVEMBER 1963 KLEIN'S AD (ADVERTISING THE 40-INCH CARBINE):http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/122a.+KLEIN%27S+AD+FEA...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Walt
> In article <acad681c-3d15-4a49-98f2-dd0ca1308...@j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
Yes it demonstrates just how really STUPID this liar who calls himself
"Rob Caprio" is. He quotes you as an authority when he wants to
attack me but then turns right around and says that you're a liar.
If the Stupid Bastard knew how to scale a picture he would know that
the model 91/38 Carcano shown in the Klein illustration is a 40 inch
long rifle.
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ben Holmes
> Learn to Make Money with a Website -http://www.burningknife.com- Hide quoted text -
tomnln
rifle because they were "Out of Stock"???
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fa7c74ea-e457-473b...@r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
>>> "The Klein's employee who originated the idea of mounting a scope on the
>>> rifle was Mitchell Westra. He told the House Select Committee on
>>> Assassinations (HSCA) that Klein's only mounted the scope on the 36 inch
>>> MC [Mannlicher-Carcano]." <<<
This whole line of "conspiratorial" thought is just more idiotic
claptrap and nonsense coming from CT-Kooks who are desperate to find
ANY excuse to exonerate Mr. Oswald.
The common-sense answer to this discrepancy is a simple one:
Since Lee Harvey Oswald DID, in fact, order a "36-inch" rifle, but
Klein's shipped Oswald/"Hidell" a 40-inch model,* and since Oswald's
order specified that he wanted the scope to be included as part of his
order as well, and since it was the police of Klein's to mount scopes
for customers who ordered the 36-inch rifle and the scope as a
"package" deal....then Klein's simply mounted the scope for Oswald's
"package" order as if it were the 36-inch model of the Italian
carbine.
After all, it certainly wasn't Oswald's fault that Klein's was out of
stock of the 36-inch rifle that he ordered. So why should he be
penalized in this instance by NOT having the scope mounted?
Quite obviously, in Oswald's case, Klein's didn't care that they
normally didn't mount the scopes on the 40-inch models. Oswald ordered
a 36-incher, and his "Rifle With Scope" package order was treated
exactly the same as any other "36-inch" order. Thus, the scope was
mounted on the 40-incher they mailed to him.
The very same thing probably happened to several other Klein's
customers who found themselves also receiving 40-inch Carcano rifles
in the mail (instead of the 36-inch varieties they had actually
ordered).
Perhaps some of the Anybody-But-Oswald conspiracy kooks around here
should do some additional leg work and try to find another person or
two who purchased Carcano rifles from Klein's in 1963 and see if any
of them ordered the 36-inch model but received a 40-incher instead.
* = And the most-likely reason that Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago
shipped Oswald a forty-inch weapon is pretty obvious too -- Klein's
simply ran out of 36-inch Italian carbines and had to substitute a
very similar rifle that was four inches longer; Oswald almost
certainly never even noticed the difference and undoubtedly couldn't
have cared less that he was sent a rifle that was four inches longer
than the one in he ordered from the magazine ad.
We know for a fact that Klein's advertised BOTH the "36-inch Italian
carbine" AND the "40-inch Italian carbine" during the same calendar
year of 1963 in various magazine advertisements. So it doesn't seem
very unusual to me that a customer (in this case, Lee Oswald) could
have possibly received a 40-inch weapon even though he actually
ordered a 36-inch model.
FEBRUARY 1963 KLEIN'S AD (ADVERTISING THE 36-INCH CARBINE):
http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/122aa.+KLEIN%27S+AD+FEATURING+OSWALD%27S+RIFLE+(FEBRUARY+1963)?gda=C7SQ23QAAADaPnAtlvPjxRWfhTgppBLhgHcg9drGi2AseS4ljk9-FrspEB7aYnuU4Cpr495aenyn1zW2ZhTMJEAvXx7_RkmH7WdDsoY68MBGFpJD8IcqyviRMxjfheMgbenv6FQDuklV6u9SiETdg0Q2ffAyHU-dzc4BZkLnSFWX59nr5BxGqA
NOVEMBER 1963 KLEIN'S AD (ADVERTISING THE 40-INCH CARBINE):
Robert
> In article <acad681c-3d15-4a49-98f2-dd0ca1308...@j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
I find it amusing that once again Walt is lying and speculating WITH
NO cites and YOU have NO problem with that!
YOU wish you had a "Fan Club" for someone to be President of -- but
the closest you get is the bunch you made friends with while serving
time for your child molestation crimes.
Like Wally, they seem to be "fans" of your butt!
Robert
> On Sep 18, 10:29 am, Robert <robcap...@netscape.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 18, 10:11 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > >>> "The Klein's employee who originated the idea of mounting a scope on the rifle was Mitchell Westra. He told the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) that Klein's only mounted the scope on the 36-inch MC [Mannlicher-Carcano]." <<<
>
> > > This whole line of "conspiratorial" thought is just more idiotic
> > > claptrap and nonsense coming from CT-Kooks who are desperate to find
> > > ANY excuse to exonerate Mr. Oswald.
>
> > > The common-sense answer to this discrepancy is a simple one:
>
> > > Since Lee Harvey Oswald DID, in fact, order a "36-inch" rifle, but
> > > Klein's shipped Oswald/"Hidell" a 40-inch model,* and since Oswald's
> > > order specified that he wanted the scope to be included as part of his
> > > order as well, and since it was Klein's policy to mount scopes for
> > > customers who ordered both the 36-inch rifle and the scope as a
> > > "package" deal....then Klein's simply mounted the scope for Oswald's
> > > "package" order as if it were the 36-inch model of the Italian
> > > carbine.
>
> The Stupid Bastard asked:..... Where is your evidence/proof that a 40"
> Carcano was shipped to LHO and that he took possession of it. I have
> asked you this many times before, perhaps you found some since you are
> STATING IT LIKE IT IS A FACT!
>
> You are an illiterate idiotic liar...... IF you could comprehend what
> is written you'd know that I believe a 40 inch long model 91/38
> Mannlicher Carcano was sent to...AJ HIDELL at PO Box 2915 in Dallas
> Texas.
Cite the evidence that shows this to be true! I don't care about your
opinion or lies, I want the evidence. Show us when the P.O. got a
package for LHO under the name "Hidell".
> I"ve never ever said that the rifle was sent to LEE OSWALD nor
> have I stated as in indisputable FACT that Oswald picked up the
> rifle.... Learn to READ ya dumb bastard!
Then what are you saying moron? YOUR point is a lie no matter how you
slice it as there is NO evidence showing a package was sent to LHO's
box. NONE. Nada. Zippo!
It was all made up and you are too willing to believe it all, aren't
you?
Because you are a WC shill.
> > Explain how they could ship something they did NOT have in stock to us
> > David.
>
> > > After all, it certainly wasn't Oswald's fault that Klein's was out of
> > > stock of the 36-inch rifle that he ordered. So why should he be
> > > penalized in this instance by NOT having the scope mounted?
>
> Jesus H.Christ on a skateboard!!..... There are invoices and a Bill of
> lading that show that Kleins DID DID have the 40 inch Model 91/38 in
> stock at the time.
Liar, aren't you? I find it funny once again Walt is DEFENDING A LNER
-- DVP! DON'T YOU ALL?
Why is a supposed CTer ALWAYS AGREEING WITH THE LNERS?
> > So they were out of stock of the 36" Carbines, huh? Where is your
> > evidence/proof for this claim?
>
> > I wish this logic worked everywhere! I could go to the Mercedes
> > dealership at the end of the model year and say I want a low priced
> > model (obviously low priced is still a lot) that I know is out of
> > stock and they would have to give me any OTHER HIGHER PRICED TYPE OF
> > MODEL FOR THE SAME PRICE based on David's (and all other LNers)
> > thinking!! Wouldn't life be grand IF things worked like this?
>
> > > Quite obviously, in Oswald's case, Klein's didn't care that they
> > > normally didn't mount the scopes on the 40-inch models.
>
> > More assumption FOR KLEIN'S BY David with NO evidence/proof to back it
> > up!
>
> > >Oswald ordered
> > > a 36-incher, and his "Rifle With Scope" package order was treated
> > > exactly the same as any other "36-inch" order. Thus, the scope was
> > > mounted on the 40-incher they mailed to him.
>
> > LOL!! I guess Dave missed the part about they ONLY MOUNTED SCOPES ON
> > THE 36" MODELS, huh?
>
> Mathematics PROVE that you are a LIAR, Caprio....( or whatever your
> true name is)
Prove it liar. Show us YOUR MATHEMATICS, okay? The last time you did
we all saw what a liar you were.
Is DVP part of your group now too?
Robert
Hey, I'm am who I say I am. I find it interesting that I have these
three shills on the run so much they are NOW using my words. LOL!!
> He quotes you as an authority when he wants to
> attack me but then turns right around and says that you're a liar.
I am quoting your lover Ben to show the double standards you two WC
shills have been practicing for a long time. Ben attacks real CTers
(and once in a while an actual LNer) for the things he lets YOU get
away with. I am using his words to show everyone what a liar and
hypocrite he is -- certainly NOT as an "expert."
The only thing I can think of that he is an "expert" of I have NO
interest in -- GAY SEX!
> If the Stupid Bastard knew how to scale a picture he would know that
> the model 91/38 Carcano shown in the Klein illustration is a 40 inch
> long rifle.
This moronic shill thinks people look at a picture in a catalog but
write down the number of ANOTHER item but they know to send them the
"Pictured" item instead. How dumb is this guy?
More to the point -- how dumb does he think we are?
tomnln
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:99222933-b891-4829...@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:f1f97349-b75b-49e8...@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
Yes it demonstrates just how really STUPID this liar who calls himself
"Rob Caprio" is. He quotes you as an authority when he wants to
attack me but then turns right around and says that you're a liar.
Strange comment coming from one who has used Multiple screenames ! ! !
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
If the Stupid Bastard knew how to scale a picture he would know that
the model 91/38 Carcano shown in the Klein illustration is a 40 inch
long rifle.
Is that true for BOTH ads Wally???
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm
They BOTH show a scope.
They BOTH show "DIFFERENT" Prices ! ! !
tomnln
"Robert" <robc...@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:f436816e-5781-4bd0...@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
Walt
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
>
> news:53f1b5ae-8cad-4ee2...@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> Yes it demonstrates just how really STUPID this liar who calls himself
> "Rob Caprio" is. He quotes you as an authority when he wants to
> attack me but then turns right around and says that you're a liar.
>
> Strange comment coming from one who has used Multiple screenames ! ! !
>
> SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
>
> If the Stupid Bastard knew how to scale a picture he would know that
> the model 91/38 Carcano shown in the Klein illustration is a 40 inch
> long rifle.
>
> Is that true for BOTH ads Wally???
Duh!! .. ya dumb bastard....you can find the unknown length of an
object in any photograph by simply knowing the length of some part of
that object. So yes, the same method can be used on the rifle
illustrated in both ads.
>
> SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm
>
They BOTH show a scope.
WOW!....What an astute observation!!
>
> They BOTH show "DIFFERENT" Prices ! ! !
Duh!! They came from different issues of different magazines.....
Klein's simply changed the price from month to month.
Walt
> When advertising in Mass media, Photos are generic TEXT is Explicit ! ! !
>
The Stupid Bastard asked:....." how dumb does he think we are?"
I thought I'd made that clear......I think you're a "STUPID
BASTARD"..... Is there a degree of stupidity below that??
tomnln
WOW!....What an astute observation!!
AGAIN;
NO OFFICIAL CITATION FROM WALLY WORLD;
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
WCR SHILL ! ! ! !
tomnln
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm
36 inch rifle $12.88
40 inch rifle $12.78
2 Different rifles, 2 Different prices.
SEE the real Wally World Lies HERE>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:7c60993b-3b84-4afc...@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
Gil Jesus
>
> If the Stupid Bastard knew how to scale a picture he would know that
> the model 91/38 Carcano shown in the Klein illustration is a 40 inch
> long rifle.
Let's look at the Ad and see if there's a "40" in it:
http://i31.tinypic.com/2zsmag1.jpg
Oswald ordered a 36" rifle with bottom sling mounts and a scope
mounted from Klein's.
36" Carcano with scope ----- $ 19,95
Shipping ----------------------- 1.50
______________________________
total $ 21.45
How much was that Oswald money order for ?
$ 21.45
IN OTHER WORDS, OSWALD ORDERED A 36" CARCANO NOT A 40" WEAPON
The Depository Carcano was a 40" rifle with side sling mounts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq25loEpBro
Scale the pictures all you want.
Scaling the pictures do not change the price.
Scaling the pictures do not change the sling mounts.
Scaling the pictures do not explain why the FBI had to tell Klein's
how to mount the scope on the 40" rifle, something they should have
had experience doing.
Keep scaling and keep SPECULATING.
The rifle in evidence is NOT the rifle Oswald ordered.
And NO amount of speculation can change that.
tomnln
Wally World has "SCALES" ! ! !
Wally World believes that BOTH exhibits are "copper jacketed">>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
Wally World believes that seasoned DPD detectives would believe BOTH of
these exhibits are steel jacketed.
SEE them HERE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
Wally World is a Warren Commission SHILL ! ! !
"Gil Jesus" <gjj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3355d85e-bcd8-4790...@z28g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
Walt
> On Sep 18, 12:34 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > If the Stupid Bastard knew how to scale a picture he would know that
> > the model 91/38 Carcano shown in the Klein illustration is a 40 inch
> > long rifle.
>
> Let's look at the Ad and see if there's a "40" in it:
>
> http://i31.tinypic.com/2zsmag1.jpg
>
> Oswald ordered a 36" rifle with bottom sling mounts and a scope
> mounted from Klein's.
Wrong!!.... AJ Hidell ordered the rifle "AS ILLUSTRATED"..... An
illustration that shows a 40 inch long MODEL 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano
with BOTTOM sling swivels and a scope..
>
> 36" Carcano with scope ----- $ 19,95
>
> Shipping ----------------------- 1.50
> ______________________________
>
> total $ 21.45
>
> How much was that Oswald money order for ?
I belive you're confused....The name was AJ Hidell......
>
> $ 21.45
>
> IN OTHER WORDS, OSWALD ORDERED A 36" CARCANO NOT A 40" WEAPON
Nonsense.... AJ hidell ordered the rifle ILLUSTRATED....
>
> The Depository Carcano was a 40" rifle with side sling mounts.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq25loEpBro
>
> Scale the pictures all you want.
>
> Scaling the pictures do not change the price.
>
> Scaling the pictures do not change the sling mounts.
>
> Scaling the pictures do not explain why the FBI had to tell Klein's
> how to mount the scope on the 40" rifle, something they should have
> had experience doing.
>
> Keep scaling and keep SPECULATING.
>
> The rifle in evidence is NOT the rifle Oswald ordered.
The rifle sent to AJ Hidell at PO Box 2915 had the serial number
C2766.... What is the serial number of the rifle found in the TSBD??
tomnln
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:88325ed0-aa4c-4ed8...@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wally World wrote;
The rifle sent to AJ Hidell at PO Box 2915 had the serial number
C2766.... What is the serial number of the rifle found in the TSBD??
I write;
WRONG AGAIN;
That rifle with serial number C2766 was Owned by Dr. (Urologist) Jahn
Lattimer.
Lattimer claimed that in his book Lincoln and Kennedy oage 250 >>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/Lattimer.htm
Your Lies are HERE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
David Von Pein
>>> "Explain how they [Klein's Sporting Goods] could ship something they did NOT have in stock. .... So they were out of stock of the 36" Carbines, huh? Where is your evidence/proof for this claim?" <<<
I see the conspiracy-loving kooks are busy as beavers once again
today, as those kooks try every way they can to take Rifle C2766 out
of the hands of Lee Harvey Oswald.
There seems to be no limits to a kook's willingness to avoid the
obvious (and to avoid utilizing even the smallest granule of COMMON
SENSE when it comes to ANYTHING having to do with JFK's
assassination).
My original post in this thread regarding this "36-inch Vs. 40-inch"
controversy speaks for itself (and that post is loaded with common
sense and logic, things that CTers can never seem to exhibit). Here's
that original post again:
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/101826a03f71e098
As an addendum to what I wrote in the above post, I'll copy and paste
an e-mail I received on September 18, 2009, from Gary Mack of the
Sixth Floor Museum At Dealey Plaza. His remarks to me in this e-mail
correspond nicely with the very similar comments I made in my Internet
post linked above, with Mr. Mack adding one important detail--the fact
that Klein's did not place an advertisement in the March 1963 edition
of "American Rifleman" magazine, but did put one in the April 1963
edition, with the April ad showing a 40-inch rifle for sale, replacing
the 36-inch variety from its MOST-RECENT ad from just two months
earlier:
=================================================
Date: 9/18/2009 11:43:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Gary Mack
To: David Von Pein
--------------------------
Dave,
The rifle answer is even simpler than that. The Sixth Floor Museum
has a complete set of American Rifleman magazines for 1963. Klein’s
advertised the 36” Carcano in January and February, the month from
which Oswald ordered, but they had no ad for March.
Beginning in April, Klein’s monthly ads featured the 40” Carcano. So
what must have happened is that the company was out of stock at the
time it received Oswald’s 36” rifle order and also failed to get their
updated ad to American Rifleman in time for publication. Then, to
save the sale, Klein’s would likely have substituted the 40” gun they
stocked and added the scope per Oswald’s request.
Gary Mack
=================================================
Gary Mack's remarks to me on 9/18/09 are, indeed, almost identical to
these comments that I made earlier the same day here on the Internet:
"The common-sense answer to this discrepancy is a simple one:
Since Lee Harvey Oswald DID, in fact, order a "36-inch" rifle, but
Klein's shipped Oswald/"Hidell" a 40-inch model, and since Oswald's
order specified that he wanted the scope to be included as part of his
order as well, and since it was Klein's policy to mount scopes for
customers who ordered both the 36-inch rifle and the scope as a
"package" deal....then Klein's simply mounted the scope for Oswald's
"package" order as if it were the 36-inch model of the Italian
carbine.
"After all, it certainly wasn't Oswald's fault that Klein's was
out of stock of the 36-inch rifle that he ordered. So why should he be
penalized in this instance by NOT having the scope mounted? ....
Oswald ordered a 36-incher, and his "Rifle With Scope" package order
was treated exactly the same as any other "36-inch" order. Thus, the
scope was mounted on the 40-incher they mailed to him.
"The very same thing probably happened to several other Klein's
customers who found themselves also receiving 40-inch Carcano rifles
in the mail (instead of the 36-inch varieties they had actually
ordered). ....
"And the most-likely reason that Klein's Sporting Goods in
Chicago shipped Oswald a forty-inch weapon is pretty obvious too --
Klein's simply ran out of 36-inch Italian carbines and had to
substitute a very similar rifle that was four inches longer. ....
"And we know for a fact that Klein's advertised BOTH the "36-
inch Italian carbine" AND the "40-inch Italian carbine" during the
same calendar year of 1963 in various magazine advertisements (with
the 36-inch version being advertised in February, and the 40-incher
showing up in some of Klein's ads nine months later, in November) [AND
GARY MACK HAS CONFIRMED, VIA HIS 9/18/09 E-MAIL TO DVP, THAT KLEIN'S
ACTUALLY BEGAN ADVERTISING THE 40-INCH RIFLE MUCH EARLIER THAN
NOVEMBER, WITH KLEIN'S ADS FOR THE 40-INCH MODEL OF THE ITALIAN
CARBINE SHOWING UP IN MAGAZINE ADS IN APRIL 1963].
"So it doesn't seem unusual or particularly odd to me that a
customer (in this case, Lee Oswald) could have possibly received a 40-
inch weapon even though he actually ordered a 36-inch model." -- David
Von Pein; September 18, 2009
Gil Jesus
Looks like someone is quoting himself again.
Did you know that when people are hired at the Sixth Floor Museum that
one of the conditions is that they support the WC version of events ?
www.blackopradio.com/black433a.ram
Let's see the letter they sent Oswald explaining that they ran out of
36" rifles and sent him a 40" rifle instead.
Robert
Obviously you do, BUT THE SAD PART FOR YOU IS WE ARE NOT THAT STUPID!
We see that you are WC shill as you LIE ABOUT WHAT YOUR OWN EVIDENCE
SAYS!
Walt
Gary Mack
Whoa hold on there Mr Mack..... Perhaps you should check the gun
magazines for 1962, including the American rifleman.
The Same Klein ad appears in many gun magazines for months in 1962.
They ALL show the 40 inch long Mannlicher Carcano in the illustration,
and so do the all the monthly issue for 1963.
Though some ads refer to a 36 inch carbine and some refer to a 40 inch
carbine.....ALL of the ads illustrate a 40 inch Mannlicher Carcano
model 91/38 Short Rifle.
Robert
That has been my point all along on this topic. This is the WHOLE
case as IF they can't prove he owned the rifle in question to start
with they are dead in the water.
Both Walt and Ben have called me a liar when in fact I AM REPRESENTING
THE EVIDENCE THE WC GAVE US, and they are lying about it like all
LNers do!
IF he ordered a rifle (and I have questions about that too) he would
have ordered a 36" Carbine. They can lie all they want but that can't
change the evidence the WC gave us. They also have the issue of NO
evidence showing LHO ever received any rifle in the mail.
I am stunned constantly by how many published CT authors just skip
over this part and accept the WC claims about the rifle order. This
shows me they are more interested in "their theory" than the truth
since the WC gave us NO evidence that shows a 40" Carcano was ordered
and delivered to LHO.
David Von Pein
>>> "Let's see the letter they [Klein's Sporting Goods Co. of Chicago, Ill.] sent Oswald explaining that they ran out of 36" rifles and sent him a 40" rifle instead." <<<
Why would Klein's feel the need to send Oswald a letter like that, Mr.
Kook?
Oswald undoubtedly never even noticed the (four-inch) difference.
In fact, he got MORE bang for his buck (er, $21.45). He got a 40-inch
rifle for the price of a 36-incher. (Not that he cared, as I said.)*
* = Although, yes, it's true that by November 1963, Klein's had
actually reduced the price of the 40-inch Carcano by a dime (from
$12.88 in February to $12.78 in November), but the price Oswald would
have paid would have been identical in both instances, because the
"rifle with scope" price was $19.95 (plus S&H) in both February and
November.
I'm not sure what the prices were for the months between February and
November, however. But Gary Mack could easily tell us. (And he
probably will tell me, via e-mail, after he reads this post.)
;)
Footnote---
The $12.78 and $12.88 prices that Klein's used in the 1963 magazine
ads were prices that aligned themselves with almost every other
product in those particular advertisements. That is, almost every item
being sold via those ads had price points that ended in "78 cents" (in
November) and "88 cents" (in February).
That fact doesn't really mean anything important; I just thought I'd
point it out.
THE TWO KLEIN'S 1963 ADS:
Robert
> On Sep 18, 11:28 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 18, 12:34 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
> > > If the Stupid Bastard knew how to scale a picture he would know that
> > > the model 91/38 Carcano shown in the Klein illustration is a 40 inch
> > > long rifle.
>
> > Let's look at the Ad and see if there's a "40" in it:
>
> >http://i31.tinypic.com/2zsmag1.jpg
>
> > Oswald ordered a 36" rifle with bottom sling mounts and a scope
> > mounted from Klein's.
>
> Wrong!!.... AJ Hidell ordered the rifle "AS ILLUSTRATED"..... An
> illustration that shows a 40 inch long MODEL 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano
> with BOTTOM sling swivels and a scope..
Where are the words "as illustrated" on the order form Wally?
> > 36" Carcano with scope ----- $ 19,95
>
> > Shipping ----------------------- 1.50
> > ______________________________
>
> > total $ 21.45
>
> > How much was that Oswald money order for ?
>
> I belive you're confused....The name was AJ Hidell......
I woud like to say you are the ONE confused, but exeperience has
taught me you know what you are saying. YOU are a WC shill!
> > $ 21.45
>
> > IN OTHER WORDS, OSWALD ORDERED A 36" CARCANO NOT A 40" WEAPON
>
> Nonsense.... AJ hidell ordered the rifle ILLUSTRATED....
Prove it. Show us where it says "as illustrated" on the order form.
I will NOT wait long before adding this to your unsupported claims
list either as I don't expect you to provide any such evidence.
> > The Depository Carcano was a 40" rifle with side sling mounts.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq25loEpBro
>
> > Scale the pictures all you want.
>
> > Scaling the pictures do not change the price.
>
> > Scaling the pictures do not change the sling mounts.
>
> > Scaling the pictures do not explain why the FBI had to tell Klein's
> > how to mount the scope on the 40" rifle, something they should have
> > had experience doing.
>
> > Keep scaling and keep SPECULATING.
>
> > The rifle in evidence is NOT the rifle Oswald ordered.
>
> The rifle sent to AJ Hidell at PO Box 2915 had the serial number
> C2766.... What is the serial number of the rifle found in the TSBD??
>
>
>
>
>
> > And NO amount of speculation can change that.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Robert
> >>> "Explain how they [Klein's Sporting Goods] could ship something they did NOT have in stock. .... So they were out of stock of the 36" Carbines, huh? Where is your evidence/proof for this claim?" <<<
>
> I see the conspiracy-loving kooks are busy as beavers once again
> today, as those kooks try every way they can to take Rifle C2766 out
> of the hands of Lee Harvey Oswald.
We CAN'T something out his hands WHEN IT WAS NEVER PUT THERE IN THE
FIRST PLACE! Where is your evidence/proof it was ever in LHO's hands?
> There seems to be no limits to a kook's willingness to avoid the
> obvious (and to avoid utilizing even the smallest granule of COMMON
> SENSE when it comes to ANYTHING having to do with JFK's
> assassination).
More gibberish instead of dealing with the request for evidence/
proof. Don't worry, Wally is defending you.
> My original post in this thread regarding this "36-inch Vs. 40-inch"
> controversy speaks for itself (and that post is loaded with common
> sense and logic, things that CTers can never seem to exhibit). Here's
> that original post again:
Common sense and logic play a role in a court case, but THEY ARE A
DISTANT SECOND TO EVIDENCE AND PROOF! Do you have any of this stuff
for your claim?
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/101826a03f71e098
Oh, so you mentioned evidence/proof in this link?? NO, because I
responded and saw NONE as usual.
Where is the evidence/proof for your claims Dave?
David Von Pein
>>> "Though some ads refer to a 36 inch carbine and some refer to a 40 inch carbine.....ALL of the ads illustrate a 40 inch Mannlicher Carcano model 91/38 Short Rifle." <<<
This is hilarious (and absurd)! (Typical for a kook like Walt
Cakebread, of course.)
Walt The Kook thinks that the small "silhouette"-like picture of a
rifle in the various ads can be expressly determined to be of an EXACT
length and model number.
Just how does Walt determine these details?
And even if Walt is correct....who gives a shit? I'm sure Lee Harvey
Oswald didn't, that's for sure. He got what he ordered -- a rifle with
which to commit political assassinations. That's all he cared about.
David Von Pein
Gil has been on a "Black Op [Retard] Radio" kick of late, I see.
And Gil is also apparently on a "Let's Believe Everything We Hear On
Black Op [Retard] Radio, No Matter How Stupid It Is" kick too.
You're a stitch, Gilbert. Did you know that?
www.google.com/group/reclaiming-history/browse_thread/thread/4de239e56e02f210
David Von Pein
Keep trying to take that rifle out of Oswald's hands, Robcap. Such
activity on your part continues to illustrate how utterly insane you
are.
mucher1
It would, of course, be the ultimate thrill for you (and other members
of the LHO fan club) to work there, but, unfortunately, it's not the
purpose of the museum to provide those kinds of thrills.
tomnln
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:032901dd-21b8-436f...@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
>
> Gil has been on a "Black Op [Retard] Radio" kick of late, I see.
>
> And Gil is also apparently on a "Let's Believe Everything We Hear On
>
> You're a stitch, Gilbert. Did you know that?
>
> www.google.com/group/reclaiming-history/browse_thread/thread/4de239e56e02f210
The only thing that can compare to BlackOp Radio is Gil's Youtube account
with all those witnesses on video ! ! !
btw;
Aren't you the guy who RAN from a radio debate ! ! !
Your position is NOT very Defensible is it David ! ! !
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tomnln
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:4c051dd1-e089-4136...@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> has a complete set of American Rifleman magazines for 1963. Klein�s
> advertised the 36� Carcano in January and February, the month from
> which Oswald ordered, but they had no ad for March.
>
> Beginning in April, Klein�s monthly ads featured the 40� Carcano. So
> what must have happened is that the company was out of stock at the
> time it received Oswald�s 36� rifle order and also failed to get their
> updated ad to American Rifleman in time for publication. Then, to
> save the sale, Klein�s would likely have substituted the 40� gun they
> stocked and added the scope per Oswald�s request.
>
> Gary Mack
>
=================================================================================
Wally World wrote;
The rifle answer is even simpler than that. The Sixth Floor Museum
has a complete set of American Rifleman magazines for 1963. Klein�s
advertised the 36� Carcano in January and February, the month from
which Oswald ordered, but they had no ad for March.
Beginning in April, Klein�s monthly ads featured the 40� Carcano. So
what must have happened is that the company was out of stock at the
time it received Oswald�s 36� rifle order and also failed to get
their
updated ad to American Rifleman in time for publication. Then, to
save the sale, Klein�s would likely have substituted the 40� gun they
stocked and added the scope per Oswald�s request.
Gary Mack
Whoa hold on there Mr Mack..... Perhaps you should check the gun
magazines for 1962, including the American rifleman.
The Same Klein ad appears in many gun magazines for months in 1962.
They ALL show the 40 inch long Mannlicher Carcano in the illustration,
and so do the all the monthly issue for 1963.
Though some ads refer to a 36 inch carbine and some refer to a 40 inch
carbine.....ALL of the ads illustrate a 40 inch Mannlicher Carcano
model 91/38 Short Rifle.
I write;
Looks like Wally World is in bed with Another LN'e Gary Mack ! ! !
SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm
Just a Thought ! ! !
How come ALL of Wally World's "QUOTES" are 2nd, 3rd, 4th Hand?
Is it so that when he's Caught as a WCR SHILL he can claim that it all came
frome Someone ELSE???
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tomnln
Did he REALLY say that???
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Please post his LIST of "Wild Ass Lying Sppeculations" again so I won't have
to ???
"Robert" <robc...@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:49285d87-fea5-4fb9...@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
Photos and, EXPLICIT TEXT ! ! !
WCR SHILLS are "Unteachable" because they are PAID to think ONE Way! ! !
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
David Von Pain(in the ass) has a Very Expensive Ouija Board that allows him
to know what Oswald's thoughts were ! ! !
Matter of fact, I Embarrassed David a while back>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/frick.htm
(scroll
down to subject #8. He wasn't that Important)
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:cfcf5ef6-120a-43c8...@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
>
> Keep trying to take that rifle out of Oswald's hands, Robcap. Such
> activity on your part continues to illustrate how utterly insane you
> are.
It can NOT be taken OUT of anybody's hands until it has been put INTO
someone's hands.
When facts can NOT be supported with testimony/evidence they are no longer
Facts ! ! !
(they aere charges/claims)
tomnln
"mucher1" <muc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eea94e6e-53f6-429f...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> > has a complete set of American Rifleman magazines for 1963. Klein�s
> > advertised the 36� Carcano in January and February, the month from
> > which Oswald ordered, but they had no ad for March.
>
> > Beginning in April, Klein�s monthly ads featured the 40� Carcano. So
> > what must have happened is that the company was out of stock at the
> > time it received Oswald�s 36� rifle order and also failed to get their
> > updated ad to American Rifleman in time for publication. Then, to
> > save the sale, Klein�s would likely have substituted the 40� gun they
> > stocked and added the scope per Oswald�s request.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Stupid as You are, Even you realize that there is a "Controversy" over
10% LN'r, 90% CT'r.
With the Truckloads of material for SALE at the 6th floor museum, NOT a
single piece of paper pertaining to Conspiracy.
GREAT "SNUB' to the American People ! ! !
General Goebbels would be Proud of them ! ! !
You seem to condone that sort of thing ! ! !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walt
Ha,ha,ha,ha..hee,hee,hee......ROTFLMAO.... How stupid are you??
Only a idiot blinded by his desire for revenge would ask such a stupid
question!! Anybody can see the ad for themselve on Tomnln website,
( click the link http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm ) and read the
words on that ad...
" C20-T750 carbine with brand new good quality 4X scope 3/4" diameter,
as illustrated...$19.95"
AS ILLUSTRATED.... I know that you will attempt to wiggle and sqiurm
like a maggot exposed to the light and try to deny what the ad clearly
says...so go for it, prove once again what a liar you are.
Walt
> >>> "Though some ads refer to a 36 inch carbine and some refer to a 40 inch carbine.....ALL of the ads illustrate a 40 inch Mannlicher Carcano model 91/38 Short Rifle." <<<
>
> This is hilarious (and absurd)! (Typical for a kook like Walt
> Cakebread, of course.)
>
> Walt The Kook thinks that the small "silhouette"-like picture of a
> rifle in the various ads can be expressly determined to be of an EXACT
> length and model number.
>
> Just how does Walt determine these details?
>
> And even if Walt is correct....who gives a shit?
My, my Mr.Von Pea Brain... It's readily apparent that you know that
I'm right..... "even if walt is correct...who gives a shit?.. It
really pisses you off to have mathematically proven FACTS shoved up
your nose, doesn't it.
You know that by enlarging the pictue and scaling the rifle in the
picture the length of the rifle can be accertained. ha,ha,ha,
ROTFLMAO, I love it when you are forced to eat shit.
Walt
> Did Wally World REALLY say the add read>>>"AS ILLUSTRATED"???
>
> Did he REALLY say that???
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The laughing lunatic giggled......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... And in his
insanity he quired: Did Wally World REALLY say the add read AS
ILLUSTRATED"???
Did he REALLY say that???
But the lunatic gagged when Walt posted the link to the lunatic's own
website ( http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm ) where he has posted the
ad in question. Apparently the old pervert can't see so well with his
head up his ass, because the ad clearly reads.... Quote... "C20-T750
Carbine with brand new good quality 4 X scope 3/4" diameter , as
illustrated." ...unquote
What part of "AS ILLUSTRATED" can't you comprehend ??
>
> Please post his LIST of "Wild Ass Lying Sppeculations" again so I won't have
> to ???
>
> "Robert" <robcap...@netscape.com> wrote in message
tomnln
You just gotta study your Colors MORE>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:9442646e-0efd-4422...@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
timstter
> On Sep 18, 12:34 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > If the Stupid Bastard knew how to scale a picture he would know that
> > the model 91/38 Carcano shown in the Klein illustration is a 40 inch
> > long rifle.
>
> Let's look at the Ad and see if there's a "40" in it:
>
> http://i31.tinypic.com/2zsmag1.jpg
>
> Oswald ordered a 36" rifle with bottom sling mounts and a scope
> mounted from Klein's.
>
>
> Shipping ----------------------- 1.50
> ______________________________
>
> total $ 21.45
>
> How much was that Oswald money order for ?
>
>
> IN OTHER WORDS, OSWALD ORDERED A 36" CARCANO NOT A 40" WEAPON
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq25loEpBro
>
> Scale the pictures all you want.
>
> Scaling the pictures do not change the price.
>
> Scaling the pictures do not change the sling mounts.
>
> Scaling the pictures do not explain why the FBI had to tell Klein's
> how to mount the scope on the 40" rifle, something they should have
> had experience doing.
>
> Keep scaling and keep SPECULATING.
>
> The rifle in evidence is NOT the rifle Oswald ordered.
>
Hey Gil,
Didn't you steal some of Walt Cakebread's research in making your
stupid video?
Now you side with tomnln against him.
BTW, looks like you didn't allow my comments for your lying video to
stand.
How precious are you, LOL!
Why did you only use only one of the three backyard photos when you
made your lying, misleading video with stolen information to dupe weak
minds, Gil?
Looks to me like you broke a slew of commandments in one fell swoop,
Mr Christian.
KUTGW, Gilly!
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
Walt
It's OK.... Tom and his Gang of Goofies use some of my discoveries all
the time and don't even know where the information that they use
originated.
I don't give a damn... Facts are facts.... And Gil is the only one of
the gang that has a little sense.
I'm sure that Gil is the only one of the gang that knows that the
method I showed for finding the length of the rifle in the Klein ad is
a valid way to prove that the rifle illustrated is a 40 inch long
model 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano Short Rifle. I told Gil that the
Cuban exiles being trained by the CIA were using Mannlicher carcanos
with ammo that was supplied by the CIA. He's got the videos which
show the Cubans with the Carcanos. Knowing that this bit of
information is a FACT... gives credence to the idea that Oswald didn't
just randomly select a Mannlicher Carcano. I believe someone told him
that he should order a Mannlicher carcano because they could supply
him with all the ammo he could use for such a rifle.
>
> BTW, looks like you didn't allow my comments for your lying video to
> stand.
>
> How precious are you, LOL!
>
> Why did you only use only one of the three backyard photos when you
> made your lying, misleading video with stolen information to dupe weak
> minds, Gil?
>
> Looks to me like you broke a slew of commandments in one fell swoop,
> Mr Christian.
>
> KUTGW, Gilly!
>
> Regards,
>
> Tim Brennan
> Sydney, Australia
> *Newsgroup(s) Commentator*- Hide quoted text -
Gil Jesus
> Well, ya got me on "as illustrated" in that TINY print ! ! !
>
> You just gotta study your Colors MORE>>>
> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
I'm sorry but I don't see how "as illustrated" means the same as "to
scale".
I mean, it seems to me that they're just describing the rifle with the
scope, not commenting on it's length.
Gil Jesus
> > are.
>
> It can NOT be taken �OUT of anybody's hands until it has been put INTO
> someone's hands.
>
> When facts can NOT be supported with testimony/evidence they are no longer
> Facts ! ! !
> � � � � � � � � � � � � � �(they aere charges/claims)
What is Walt arguing ?
Is he saying that Oswald ordered a 36" rifle with bottom sling mounts
but got a 40" rifle with side sling mounts for the same price because
they ran out of the 36's ?
Are we still looking of the documentation on that ?
Did they notify Oswald of that fact or was it just a pleasant
surprise ?
Am I the only one interested in seeing documentation that shows that
"Hidell" received the weapon and who the clerk was who handed it to
him ?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Weren't Klein's and Seaport Traders both under investigation by the
government for illegal arms sales ?
Weren't those investgations headed by Johnson's pal Sen Tom Dodd ?
Under those conditions, do you think they'd "cooperate" with the USG ?
Don't believe their "records".
tomnln
HAHAHAHA
"timstter" <tims...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5821bd8c-1f37-4911...@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
Walt never
proved that the rifle in CE-133A had "Dual Sling Mounts".
Walt never
proved that LHO worked for RFK.
Walt never proved that General Walker
called Germany.
Walt never proved
Mike Paine gave the DPD a copy of the CE-133A photo
on
11/22/63.
Walt never proved the wallet was found "INSIDE" the owner's
car
(allegedly LHO's).
Walt never proved Michael Paine had
same model rifle as LHO (Carcano
40").
Walt never proved
General Walker believed LHO shot at him in 4/63.
Walt never proved that
Capt. O A Jones said LHO shot AT General Walker
in 4/63.
Walt
never proved LHO received a 40" Carcano rifle.
Walt never proved that
the bill of lading proved a 40" Carcano was
ordered by
LHO.
Walt never proved his claim that LHO shot at General Walker in
4/63.
Walt never proved that LHO ordered a 40" Carcano
rifle.
Walt never proved his claim that LHO altered his OWN chin in
CE-133A.
Walt never proved his claim that a 6.5mm was fired from a
"sabot".
Walt never proved his claim that the CIA was going to "rescue
LHO."
Walt never proved there was a clip inside the Carcano when it
was
found at the TSBD.
Walt never proved LHO ordered a rifle
that was easily traceable so he
could shoot at Gen. Walker with
it.
Walt never proved Marcello was a "payroll runner" for
RFK.
Walt never proved that Truly held a "roll call" and LHO was the
ONLY
one missing.
Walt never proved the casings found at the
TSBD (6.5mm ammo) came from a
Marine Corps order for the
CIA.
Walt never proved DeMohrenschildt actually owned the 40"
Carcano
allegedly ordered from Klein's.
Walt never proved that
the bullet recovered from Walker shooting
was
copper-jacketed.
Walt never proved 133A (deMohrenschildt
BY photo) came from the SAME
negative as CE-133A.
Walt never
proved LHO went to Mexico
City in Sept./Oct. 1963.
Walt never proved his
claim that the DPD showed Weitzman a Mauser on
11/22/63.
Walt
never proved that George DeMohrenschildt purchased the money
order used
allegedly for the Carcano rifle order.
Walt never proved Marina did in fact take
CE-133A (backyard photo),
and it is AUTHENTIC.
Walt never
proved Fritz was just sloppy when timing the arrest report
ELEVEN
minutes BEFORE LHO was arrested.
Walt never proved the weight listed on
the "Bill of lading" was TARE
weight.
Walt never proved the
weight of the 40" Carcano is 7.5LBS when the ad
the WC used says
7.0LBS.
Walt never proved a "signed affadavit with a notary seal"
signed by
the LHO saying he was going to hijack a plane and make the
pilot fly
him to Cuba EVER existed.
Walt never proved the
rifle found on the roof was a DPD shotgun and
NOT a Mauser as the
Mentesana film shows.
Walt said Mausers are NOT stamped on the
barrel.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ø
Saaaaaaaaaaaaay, Aren't you the guy who said Marina had a "folded" photo of
Walker's back Yard hidden in her Shoe???
Walt said Oswald was LBJ’s Puppet. (No Citation here either)
OSWALD POSED WITH PAINE’S M C RIFLE
Brennan was NOT lying on 11/22/63.....
He became a liar to protect
himself and his family, after being threatened by
the FBI .....
Wally wrote;
Dear Mr. Runt....You could not be
more full of sh.....Yourself.....I would
NEVER want anybody to
accept something I say without checking the
facts...Since you are
an egotist and a liar, I doubt that you will admit it ...but
you have to know that I always give reference to check against my
posts.....And even if you won't admit it most lurkers know that this
is a fact...
Find out HERE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
Yes he did admit that he drove the car....because it's a lot easier to
be excused for an accident of driving off the road that it is for causing a
death by an overdose of drugs.
9-16-09
-Duh!.... The FBI said that the "Magic
Bullet" (CE 399) was
manufactured by Western Cartridge Company, and there are
letters from
officials at WCC that acknowledge that the WCC did in fact
manufacture
CE 399. So it is a FACT that WCC manufacturered the
"magic
bullet" ( for the CIA by the
way)
tomnln
"Gil Jesus" <gjj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:9f1bcf4a-9348-4f0d...@r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
One add says 40 inch Rifle. 7 pounds
The one they say Oswald ordered says 36 inch Rifle. 5 1/2 pounds
Walt
> "Gil Jesus" <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9f1bcf4a-9348-4f0d...@r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 19, 8:17 pm, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Well, ya got me on "as illustrated" in that TINY print ! ! !
>
> > You just gotta study your Colors MORE>>>
> >http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
>
> I'm sorry but I don't see how "as illustrated" means the same as "to
> scale".
>
> I mean, it seems to me that they're just describing the rifle with the
> scope, not commenting on it's length.
it seems to me that they're just describing the rifle with the scope,
not commenting on it's length.
You're right...by printing "as illustrated " in the ad they are saying
that the buyer gets the rifle with the scope as illustrated....and the
rifle illustrated is a 40 inch long Model 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano
Short Rifle, with BOTTOM sling swivels. I doubt that anybody would
have noticed or cared if they received a 40 inch rifle when the ad
gave the lenghth as 36 inches. Some nutty CT's have made way to much
out of an inaccurate ad. AJ Hidell merely ordered the rifle in the
picture, and though I believe that Lee Oswald used the name AJ hidell
when he ordered the rifle I sincerely doubt that he really cared what
length the rifle was....he was told to order the rifle and leave a
easy to uncover trail so when the FBI go after him for shooting at
General Walker. By ordering the rifle from a catalog there would be a
definite trail and a link between Oswald and the rifle. The walker
incident was a comedy of errors and miscalculations....... De
Morhenschildt had calculated that the cops would be in pursuit of
Oswald after the alarned Marina called Ruth Paine and told her about
the alarming note that Lee had left. De morhenschildt had told Oswald
to leave the rifle in a place where police dogs could find it , then
the FBI could have traced it to Oswald through Klein's records. Of
course Marina screwed up the plot by failing to call Ruth paine, and
the cops never even searched the area for a weapon. The whole silly
scheme fell apart and Lee went and retrieved the rifle a couple of
days later.
mucher1
> BOTTOM POST;
>
> "mucher1" <much...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > which Oswald ordered, but they had no ad for March.
>
> > > what must have happened is that the company was out of stock at the
> > > updated ad to American Rifleman in time for publication. Then, to
> > > stocked and added the scope per Oswald’s request.
Can we have an "official citation" for this, please?
> With the Truckloads of material for SALE at the 6th floor museum, NOT a
> single piece of paper pertaining to Conspiracy.
>
> GREAT "SNUB' to the American People ! ! !
You don't have to feel sorry for Groden and his ilk. They'll find
other places to peddle their smut.
> General Goebbels would be Proud of them ! ! !
"General" Goebbels?! Don't tell me you're also a "serious student" of
the Third Reich?
> You seem to condone that sort of thing ! ! !
Nope. You and your partners in crime are the ones that are employing
his Große Lüge technique. The main difference is that you're blaming
the DPD, FBI, SS, CIA, ONI, WC, etc., instead of the Jews.
Gil Jesus
> The rifle sent to AJ Hidell at PO Box 2915 had the serial number
> C2766.... �What is the serial number of the rifle found in the TSBD??
Looks like Walt didn't know that there were at least TWO MC rifles
with the serial number C2766.
The one photographed for the WC had a different "font" than the one
photographed by LIFE magazine in 1983:
TWO 91/38 RIFLES, SAME SERIAL NUMBER, DIFFERENT SCRIPT
http://i35.tinypic.com/24w7ouf.jpg
Was there more than one rifle with the serial number C2766, or was the
"C" added to the second rifle to frame Oswald ?
Gil Jesus
> The angle of the two pictures plays a part in the "different"-looking
> "C" on the rifle. And the lighting too.
ROFLMAO
Compare the complete serial numbers side-by-side and tell me how the
"angle" and "lighting" can effect ONLY the bottom serif of the first
character and no other part of the serial number.
http://i35.tinypic.com/24w7ouf.jpg
You are so F.O.S. Von Pein, no wonder everyone thinks you're a "Kook".
ROFLMAO
David Von Pein
http://i35.tinypic.com/24w7ouf.jpg
To believe that the two pictures above are depicting two different
rifles is ridiculous. It's more nit-picking by conspiracy mongers who
want Oswald to be innocent. Simple as that.
The angle of the two pictures plays a part in the "different"-looking
"C" on the rifle. And the lighting too.
For one thing, in the "WC" photo, the serial number looks silvery (I
would guess this is from the camera's flash), while the C2766 number
is dark in the "Life" photo.
But the key (IMO) in proving that the two pictures are depicting the
exact same rifle (in addition to the common-sense reason to know that
the two pics are showing the same weapon, since there are most
certainly NOT two Carcano rifles in existence with the exact same five-
digit serial number, including the prefix) is the positioning of the
two "sixes" in the serial number in both photographs.
The two "sixes" are positioned exactly the same in both pictures,
being located further apart from one another than are the first three
numbers ("276"). And the second "6" is situated HIGHER than the other
numbers in BOTH pictures.
Do conspiracy theorists think that there were TWO different MC 91/38
rifles with the numbers "2766" stamped on them that were stamped on
these guns in just exactly the same way, with the second "6" being
placed slightly higher on the gun than the other numbers?
And if so, then this would have probably been done at DIFFERENT
manufacturing plants, since even CTers who believe in the silly
nonsense about there being two Carcanos with the same C2766 number on
them also believe that if this almost-impossible occurrence did
happen, it likely would have been a case where one of the weapons was
made at the Terni plant (that was Oswald's, of course), while the
other (never-seen) rifle would have been made at a different Carcano
manufacturing plant altogether.
David Von Pein
>>> "Compare the complete serial numbers side-by-side and tell me how the "angle" and "lighting" can effect ONLY the bottom serif of the first character and no other part of the serial number." <<<
Beats me, kook. But that very thing obviously did happen in this
instance, and that's because only a total idiot could possibly believe
the stupid shit about a SECOND Mannlicher-Carcano 91/38 rifle being
stamped with the exact same serial number....and then having BOTH of
these "C2766" weapons ending up being "connected" in some way to the
JFK case. (Of course, as we know, the second "connection" in this
regard is merely taking place in the fevered minds of retards like Gil
Jesus and Thomas H. Purvis.)
BTW, my "C2766" challenge from March of this year has never been
accepted by any conspiracy theorist (to date).
My challenge was this (yes, Gil, I'm going to quote myself again, so
there's no need to dash to your keyboard to berate me for it this
time):
"Here's a challenge for all conspiracy-happy kooks --- Come up
with ANY RIFLE (or ANY MANUFACTURED ITEM, PERIOD, whether it be a
rifle or a handgun or a toaster or a refrigerator or a DVD player or a
hair dryer) that has the exact same serial number stamped on it as Lee
Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle -- i.e., the serial number
"C2766". I'd wager that nobody on this planet can come up with a
single product of ANY KIND (a Carcano rifle or otherwise) that is
stamped with that exact serial number. Good luck." -- DVP; March 19,
2009
=================================================
FULL POST FROM 03/19/09 (WITH LOTS MORE KOOK-BASHING FUN IN IT):
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/04c8bbfd431e58b9
=================================================
tomnln
On Sep 19, 11:12�pm, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> One add says 40 inch Rifle. 7 pounds
>
> The one they say Oswald ordered says 36 inch Rifle. �5 1/2 pounds
>
> SEE>>> �http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm
Tom:
Does Walt say that Oswald only paid for the shipping on a 5.5 lbs
weapon instead of the 7 lbs. weapon ?
Did the US Post Office give him a break on their rate also, or did
Klein's absorb that additional cost as well ?
I'd like to see the documentation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You're asking
Wally World for "documentation" ! ! ! !
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
tomnln
Find out HERE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
Yes he did admit that he drove the car....because it's a lot easier to
be excused for an accident of driving off the road that it is for causing a
death by an overdose of drugs.
tomnln
ANOTHER "Anti-Semantic" ! ! ! !
"mucher1" <muc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2a9f00a5-f0ec-4db0...@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> > > has a complete set of American Rifleman magazines for 1963. Klein�s
> > > advertised the 36� Carcano in January and February, the month from
> > > which Oswald ordered, but they had no ad for March.
>
> > > Beginning in April, Klein�s monthly ads featured the 40� Carcano. So
> > > what must have happened is that the company was out of stock at the
> > > time it received Oswald�s 36� rifle order and also failed to get their
> > > updated ad to American Rifleman in time for publication. Then, to
> > > save the sale, Klein�s would likely have substituted the 40� gun they
> > > stocked and added the scope per Oswald�s request.
his Gro�e L�ge technique. The main difference is that you're blaming
tomnln
"tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote in message news:...
> AAAAAAAAAAH
>
> ANOTHER "Anti-Semantic" ! ! ! !
AND, HE'S ANTI-SEMETIC TOO ! ! !
mucher1
Huh? Anti-Tomnln is more like it.
> > > > has a complete set of American Rifleman magazines for 1963. Klein’s
> > > > advertised the 36” Carcano in January and February, the month from
> > > > which Oswald ordered, but they had no ad for March.
>
> > > > Beginning in April, Klein’s monthly ads featured the 40” Carcano. So
> > > > what must have happened is that the company was out of stock at the
> > > > time it received Oswald’s 36” rifle order and also failed to get their
> > > > updated ad to American Rifleman in time for publication. Then, to
> > > > save the sale, Klein’s would likely have substituted the 40” gun they
> > > > stocked and added the scope per Oswald’s request.
> his Große Lüge technique. The main difference is that you're blaming
Walt
> http://i35.tinypic.com/24w7ouf.jpg
>
> To believe that the two pictures above are depicting two different
> rifles is ridiculous. It's more nit-picking by conspiracy mongers who
> want Oswald to be innocent. Simple as that.
Hey Von Pea Brain.... You know that I think that you're a lying
asshole, so It pains me to have to agree with you on this point. Even
a totally blind man could feel the numerals and know that the two
photos show the same rifle.
tomnln
Huh? Anti-Tomnln is more like it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOT REALLY;
You RUN from debate on radio/my chat room
You RUN from evidence/testimony>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/CASE%20DISMISSED.htm
Your just another Asshole hiding behind an alias !
You were probably a gaurd at Dachau !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > has a complete set of American Rifleman magazines for 1963. Klein�s
> > > > advertised the 36� Carcano in January and February, the month from
> > > > which Oswald ordered, but they had no ad for March.
>
> > > > Beginning in April, Klein�s monthly ads featured the 40� Carcano. So
> > > > what must have happened is that the company was out of stock at the
> > > > time it received Oswald�s 36� rifle order and also failed to get
> > > > their
> > > > updated ad to American Rifleman in time for publication. Then, to
> > > > save the sale, Klein�s would likely have substituted the 40� gun
> > > > they
> > > > stocked and added the scope per Oswald�s request.
> his Gro�e L�ge technique. The main difference is that you're blaming
tomnln
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:0cf531fc-bc74-4df7...@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
Walt
> The SHILL shows his colors AGAIN ! ! !
Well I'll be damned, The old shriveled brained pervert got one
right!!...... I in fact did show my colors..TRUE BLUE...True to the
FACTS..... I don't give a damn if a jerk says he's a CT or a LNer..If
he's an idiotic fool, I'll traet him like the fool he is.
>
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
> > manufacturing plant altogether.- Hide quoted text -
mucher1
> "mucher1" <much...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> On 20 Sep., 17:51, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > AAAAAAAAAAH
>
> > ANOTHER "Anti-Semantic" ! ! ! !
>
> Huh? Anti-Tomnln is more like it.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> NOT REALLY;
>
> You RUN from debate on radio/my chat room
>
> You RUN from evidence/testimony>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/CASE%20DISMISSED.htm
>
> Your just another Asshole hiding behind an alias !
No. I'm one of the good guys. Unlike you.
> You were probably a gaurd at Dachau !
You need new material. Nazi crimes are nothing to joke about.
> > > > > has a complete set of American Rifleman magazines for 1963. Klein’s
> > > > > advertised the 36” Carcano in January and February, the month from
> > > > > which Oswald ordered, but they had no ad for March.
>
> > > > > Beginning in April, Klein’s monthly ads featured the 40” Carcano. So
> > > > > what must have happened is that the company was out of stock at the
> > > > > time it received Oswald’s 36” rifle order and also failed to get
> > > > > their
> > > > > updated ad to American Rifleman in time for publication. Then, to
> > > > > save the sale, Klein’s would likely have substituted the 40” gun
> > > > > they
> > > > > stocked and added the scope per Oswald’s request.
> > his Große Lüge technique. The main difference is that you're blaming
Gil Jesus
> The SHILL shows his colors AGAIN ! ! !
Anyone with eyes can see that the "C" in one photo is not the same as
the "C" in the other.
The flat earth society can deny it all they want.
The pictures speak for themselves.
tomnln
Well I'll be damned, The old shriveled brained pervert got one
right!!...... I in fact did show my colors..TRUE BLUE...True to the
FACTS..... I don't give a damn if a jerk says he's a CT or a LNer..If
he's an idiotic fool, I'll traet him like the fool he is.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know the difference between Steel Jacketed AND, Copper Jacketed !
! !
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/marsh.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tomnln
On 20 Sep., 18:36, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> "mucher1" <much...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:01eb9e50-509c-4afc...@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On 20 Sep., 17:51, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > AAAAAAAAAAH
>
> > ANOTHER "Anti-Semantic" ! ! ! !
>
> Huh? Anti-Tomnln is more like it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> NOT REALLY;
>
> You RUN from debate on radio/my chat room
>
> You RUN from evidence/testimony>>>
> http://whokilledjfk.net/CASE%20DISMISSED.htm
>
> Your just another Asshole hiding behind an alias !
No. I'm one of the good guys. Unlike you.
> You were probably a gaurd at Dachau !
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mucher wrote;
You need new material. Nazi crimes are nothing to joke about.
I write;
Your parents Learned that the Hard Way at the Nuerenburg Trials ! ! !
Wanna tell HOW the cops showed CE-133-a BEFORE it was found??
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > has a complete set of American Rifleman magazines for 1963. Klein�s
> > > > > advertised the 36� Carcano in January and February, the month from
> > > > > which Oswald ordered, but they had no ad for March.
>
> > > > > Beginning in April, Klein�s monthly ads featured the 40� Carcano.
> > > > > So
> > > > > what must have happened is that the company was out of stock at
> > > > > the
> > > > > time it received Oswald�s 36� rifle order and also failed to get
> > > > > their
> > > > > updated ad to American Rifleman in time for publication. Then, to
> > > > > save the sale, Klein�s would likely have substituted the 40� gun
> > > > > they
> > > > > stocked and added the scope per Oswald�s request.
> > his Gro�e L�ge technique. The main difference is that you're blaming
David Von Pein
>>> "Anyone with eyes can see that the "C" in one photo [of Oswald's rifle] is not the same as the "C" in the other. .... The pictures speak for themselves." <<<
Any idea WHERE the kooks (like Gil) can go with this stupid argument
about there supposedly being TWO different rifles with "C2766" on
them?
Does Gil want to believe that a SECOND rifle (with the exact same
serial number on it) somehow managed to REPLACE the FIRST "C2766"
rifle in the National Archives?
If the Warren boys ALREADY HAD a rifle with which to "frame" Mr.
Oswald (and they did, i.e.: CE139), then why would they need to
introduce a SECOND rifle with the same serial number on it at any
point in time in the future?
So, Gil, just WHERE are you going with the silly theory about two
different "C2766" Carcano rifles?
Please spell it out, Mr. Kook.
aeffects
you're waning shithead...... get your shit together, you forget who
your talking too? What-a-moron!
tomnln
with the Same Serial Number !
From his Own book>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/Lattimer.htm
And, He's "on YOUR side" ! ! ! !
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:17c4da07-db36-4ff4...@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
>
> Any idea WHERE the kooks (like Gil) can go with this stupid argument
> about there supposedly being TWO different rifles with "C2766" on
> them?
>
> Does Gil want to believe that a SECOND rifle (with the exact same
> serial number on it) somehow managed to REPLACE the FIRST "C2766"
> rigle in the National Archives?
>
> If the Warren boys ALREADY HAD a rifle with which to "frame" Mr.
> Oswald (and they did, i.e.: CE139), then why would they need to
> introduce a SECOND rifle with the same serial number on it at any
> point in time in the future?
>
> So, Gil, just WHERE are you going with the silly theory about two
> different "C2766" Carcano rifles?
>
> Please spell it out for this dumb-cluck LNer, Mr. Kook.
Walt
> On Sep 20, 12:38 pm, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > The SHILL shows his colors AGAIN ! ! !
>
> Anyone with eyes can see that the "C" in one photo is not the same as
> the "C" in the other.
Gil
, I agree that the "C" does "appear" to be different in the two
photos..... You'll notice that I said "appear" to be different. but
the rest of the numerals are EXACTLY the same. They are on an
irregular line and irregular spacing.... Do you realize how difficult
it would be to reproduce the EXACT same irregularities on another
rifle?? Now c'mon your too smart to present stuff like this that
makes you appear to be as dumb as Caprio.
Walt
> Dr. John Lattimer (Urologist),s Rifle makes it THREE (3) of the Same Rifle
> with the Same Serial Number !
Hey you shriveled brain old pervert..... Is there a photo of Latimer's
rifle's serial number???
>
> From his Own book>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/Lattimer.htm
>
> And, He's "on YOUR side" ! ! ! !
>
> "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:17c4da07-db36-4ff4...@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Any idea WHERE the kooks (like Gil) can go with this stupid argument
> > about there supposedly being TWO different rifles with "C2766" on
> > them?
>
> > Does Gil want to believe that a SECOND rifle (with the exact same
> > serial number on it) somehow managed to REPLACE the FIRST "C2766"
> > rigle in the National Archives?
>
> > If the Warren boys ALREADY HAD a rifle with which to "frame" Mr.
> > Oswald (and they did, i.e.: CE139), then why would they need to
> > introduce a SECOND rifle with the same serial number on it at any
> > point in time in the future?
>
> > So, Gil, just WHERE are you going with the silly theory about two
> > different "C2766" Carcano rifles?
>
> > Please spell it out for this dumb-cluck LNer, Mr. Kook.- Hide quoted text -
Robert
> Keep trying to take that rifle out of Oswald's hands, Robcap. Such
> activity on your part continues to illustrate how utterly insane you
> are.
Keep lying about the rifle EVER BEING IN HIS HANDS Dave Von Con -- but
the TRUTH is your own beloved WC FAILED to back you up with evidence
that shows this beyond any doubt!
LOL!! (Cue the Doctor Evil laugh!)
Robert
> Did Wally World REALLY say the add read>>>"AS ILLUSTRATED"???
>
> Did he REALLY say that???
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
He said this to Gil:
Quote on
Wrong!!.... AJ Hidell ordered the rifle "AS ILLUSTRATED"..... An
illustration that shows a 40 inch long MODEL 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano
with BOTTOM sling swivels and a scope..
Quote off
I then said show us where he wrote "as illustrated" on the order form
because the ONLY other option is that Klein's staff was CLAIRVOYANT!
See, he wrote the catalog number for the 36" version, and he made the
order out in the amount the 36" version w/scope cost including S&H, so
HOW WOULD THEY KNOW HE WANTED THE ONE IN THE PICTURE INSTEAD???
This is the most ridiculous lie!
I'll add it to the list now and post it below this stuff!
> Please post his LIST of "Wild Ass Lying Sppeculations" again so I won't have
> to ???
>
> "Robert" <robcap...@netscape.com> wrote in message
>
> news:49285d87-fea5-4fb9...@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 19, 12:44 am, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 18, 11:28 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 18, 12:34 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
> > > > If the Stupid Bastard knew how to scale a picture he would know that
> > > > the model 91/38 Carcano shown in the Klein illustration is a 40 inch
> > > > long rifle.
>
> > > Let's look at the Ad and see if there's a "40" in it:
>
> > >http://i31.tinypic.com/2zsmag1.jpg
>
> > > Oswald ordered a 36" rifle with bottom sling mounts and a scope
> > > mounted from Klein's.
>
> > Wrong!!.... AJ Hidell ordered the rifle "AS ILLUSTRATED"..... An
> > illustration that shows a 40 inch long MODEL 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano
> > with BOTTOM sling swivels and a scope..
>
> Where are the words "as illustrated" on the order form Wally?
>
> > > 36" Carcano with scope ----- $ 19,95
>
> > > Shipping ----------------------- 1.50
> > > ______________________________
>
> > > total $ 21.45
>
> > > How much was that Oswald money order for ?
>
> > I belive you're confused....The name was AJ Hidell......
>
> I woud like to say you are the ONE confused, but exeperience has
> taught me you know what you are saying. YOU are a WC shill!
>
> > > $ 21.45
>
> > > IN OTHER WORDS, OSWALD ORDERED A 36" CARCANO NOT A 40" WEAPON
>
> > Nonsense.... AJ hidell ordered the rifle ILLUSTRATED....
>
> Prove it. Show us where it says "as illustrated" on the order form.
>
> I will NOT wait long before adding this to your unsupported claims
> list either as I don't expect you to provide any such evidence.
>
>
>
> > > The Depository Carcano was a 40" rifle with side sling mounts.
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq25loEpBro
>
> > > Scale the pictures all you want.
>
> > > Scaling the pictures do not change the price.
>
> > > Scaling the pictures do not change the sling mounts.
>
> > > Scaling the pictures do not explain why the FBI had to tell Klein's
> > > how to mount the scope on the 40" rifle, something they should have
> > > had experience doing.
>
> > > Keep scaling and keep SPECULATING.
>
> > > The rifle in evidence is NOT the rifle Oswald ordered.
>
> > The rifle sent to AJ Hidell at PO Box 2915 had the serial number
> > C2766.... What is the serial number of the rifle found in the TSBD??
>
> > > And NO amount of speculation can change that.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The new, updated Wally World list of UNSUPPORTED speculations!
**New -- Walt never proved his claim that LHO wanted the 40” Carcano
because it was “illustrated” in the ad when he made the money order
out for the 36” Carbine w/scope. (The catalog number and the dolloar
amount matched this weapon – NOT the 40” Carcano that Klein’s did NOT
have in stock at the time.)**
Walt never proved his claim that the rifle in CE-133A had "Dual Sling
Mounts".
Walt never proved his claim that LHO worked for RFK.
Walt never proved his claim that General Walker called Germany.
Walt never proved his claim that Mike Paine gave the DPD a copy of the
CE-133A photo on 11/22/63.
Walt never proved his claim that the wallet was found "INSIDE" the
owner's car (allegedly LHO’s).
Walt never proved his claim that Michael Paine had the same model
rifle as LHO (Carcano 40”).
Walt never proved his claim that General Walker believed LHO shot at
him in 4/63.
Walt never proved his claim that LHO shot at General Walker on
4/10/63.
Walt never proved his claim that Capt. O A Jones said LHO shot AT
General Walker in 4/63.
Walt never proved his claim that LHO RECEIVED a 40” Carcano rifle.
Walt never proved his claim that the bill of lading proved a 40"
Carcano was ordered by LHO.
Walt never proved his claim that LHO ORDERED a 40” Carcano rifle.
Walt never proved his claim that LHO altered his OWN chin in CE-133A.
Walt never proved his claim that the CIA was going to "rescue LHO."
Walt never proved his claim that a 6.5mm was fired from a "sabot".
Walt never proved his claim that the weapon found on the roof was a
DPD shotgun.
Walt never proved his claim that Lt. Day performed a “lift” off of the
Carcano on 11/22/63.
Walt never proved his claim that there was a “smudged print” on the
wooden foregrip of CE139 when found.
Walt never proved his claim that there was a clip inside the Carcano
when it was found at the TSBD.
Walt never proved his claim that Marcello was a "payroll runner" for
RFK.
Walt never proved his claim that Truly held a “roll call” and LHO was
the ONLY one missing.
Walt never proved his claim that DeMohrenschildt actually owned the
40” Carcano allegedly ordered from Klein’s.
Walt never proved Marina did in fact take CE-133A (backyard photo),
and it is AUTHENTIC.
Walt never proved his claim that LHO went to Mexico City in Sept./Oct.
1963.
Walt never proved his claim that the DPD showed Weitzman a Mauser on
11/22/63.
Walt never proved his claim that the weight listed on the “Bill of
lading” was TARE weight.
Walt never proved his claim that the weight of the 40” Carcano is
7.5LBS when the ad the WC used says 7.0LBS.
Walt never proved his claim that the bullet recovered from Walker
shooting was copper-jacketed.
Walt never proved his claim that LHO ordered a rifle that was easily
traceable so he could shoot at Gen. Walker with it.
Walt never proved his claim that the casings found at the TSBD (6.5mm
ammo) came from a Marine Corps order for the CIA.
Walt never proved his claim that BY photo 133A (deMohrenschildt BY
photo) came from the SAME negative as CE-133A.
Walt never proved his claim that George DeMohrenschildt purchased the
money order used allegedly for the Carcano rifle order.
Walt never proved his claim Fritz was just sloppy when timing the
arrest report ELEVEN minutes BEFORE LHO was arrested.
Walt never proved his claim of a “signed affadavit with a notary seal”
signed by the LHO saying he was going to hijack a plane and make the
pilot fly him to Cuba EVER existed.
Walt never proved his claim that LHO was part of a plot to kill Castro
(probably claims he was going to be the “trigger man” too).
Walt never proved his claim that a reporter lied because he was “bent
on hyperbole”, and said the bullet found at Walker’s was a .30.06
caliber instead of a 6.5mm bullet as Walt and the WC claim.
Walt never proved his claim that CE573 was the bullet actually fired
at Gen. Walker on 4/10/63.Walt/Ben never proved his claim that the
rifle in CE-133A had "Dual Sling Mounts".
Walt never proved his claim that there was a “bullet pock mark on the
concrete ledge beneath the SE corner window on the sixth floor.”
Robert
> Only a idiot blinded by his desire for revenge would ask such a stupid
> question!! Anybody can see the ad for themselve on Tomnln website,
> ( click the link http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm) and read the
> words on that ad...
I ask to give YOU a chance to admit you are wrong, and you snub me.
See, the ONLY other option for you is the folks at Klein's were
CLAIRVOYANT!
He listed a catalog number for the 36" Carbine w/scope, and he wrote
in the amount for this model with S&H -- he wrote NOTHING that would
lead anyone to believe he wanted a 40" Carcano they did NOT have in
stock at the time.
YOUR claim is the picture was of a 40" Carcano so he wanted that one
-- so tell us HOW THEY WOULD KNOW THIS FROM THE INFO HE GAVE US MORON!
> " C20-T750 carbine with brand new good quality 4X scope 3/4" diameter,
> as illustrated...$19.95"
This is the 36" Carbine CATALOG NUMBER! YOUR lies won't save you
Wally the WC shill. I think that is why this Shill picked "Walt
Cakebread" as his MADE UP name as the initials are WC too!
> AS ILLUSTRATED.... I know that you will attempt to wiggle and sqiurm
> like a maggot exposed to the light and try to deny what the ad clearly
> says...so go for it, prove once again what a liar you are.
Too bad for you I am familiar with the ad, and I'm familiar with what
he wrote so I know you are a stinking, lying WC shill!
Your claim that they KNEW he wanted a 40" Carcano because it is
illustrated when he wrote all the information for a 36" Carbine (and
sent the correct amount allegedly for this model type too) is the MOST
RIDICULOUS LIE YOU HAVE EVER TOLD AND THAT IS SAYING A LOT!
How would they KNOW THIS Wally?
Robert
See the NEW, updated list with more wild speculations by Wally WITH NO
CITES!
Too bad Ben is a liar and doesn't stick to his words to others about
Wally, huh? I mean he has said this to others:
“Speculation in the face of a lack of citation is never a winning
combination.” (Ben Holmes to Shutterbun – 8/29/09)
And this:
”You see, anyone can spout off anything they want... it has to
withstand the
facts that can be thrown at it” (Ben Holmes – 1/18/07)
And this:
“But don't worry, Rob - I'll *still* be around to correct any errors
of fact that I see... regardless of where it comes from.” (Ben Holmes
– 9/23/08)
And this:
“When people refuse to support their own assertions, I merely point
it out.” (Ben Holmes – 7/9/09)
YOU get the point! I guess he lied as he DOESN'T DO ANY OF THIS STUFF
WHEN HIS FELLOW WC SHILL -- WALLY -- COMMITS ALL THESE GAFFS!
On Sep 19, 11:09 pm, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> HAHAHAHA
>
> Wally World & rob/tim/Azcue/justme/HUGO are in Bed TOGETHER ! ! ! !
>
> Wally World NEVER supplied Anyone with anything but Bullshit !
>
> And, YOU'RE the ONLY one Stupid enough to swallow it.
>
> Walt never proved that the rifle in CE-133A had "Dual Sling Mounts".
> Walt never proved that LHO worked for RFK.
> Walt never proved that General Walker called Germany.
> Walt never proved Mike Paine gave the DPD a copy of the CE-133A photo
> on 11/22/63.
> Walt never proved the wallet was found "INSIDE" the owner's car
> (allegedly LHO's).
> Walt never proved Michael Paine had same model rifle as LHO (Carcano
> 40").
> Walt never proved General Walker believed LHO shot at him in 4/63.
> Walt never proved that Capt. O A Jones said LHO shot AT General Walker
> in 4/63.
> Walt never proved LHO received a 40" Carcano rifle.
> Walt never proved that the bill of lading proved a 40" Carcano was
> ordered by LHO.
> Walt never proved his claim that LHO shot at General Walker in 4/63.
> Walt never proved that LHO ordered a 40" Carcano rifle.
> Walt never proved his claim that LHO altered his OWN chin in CE-133A.
> Walt never proved his claim that a 6.5mm was fired from a "sabot".
> Walt never proved his claim that the CIA was going to "rescue LHO."
> Walt never proved there was a clip inside the Carcano when it was
> found at the TSBD.
> Walt never proved LHO ordered a rifle that was easily traceable so he
> could shoot at Gen. Walker with it.
> Walt never proved Marcello was a "payroll runner" for RFK.
> Walt never proved that Truly held a "roll call" and LHO was the ONLY
> one missing.
> Walt never proved the casings found at the TSBD (6.5mm ammo) came from a
> Marine Corps order for the CIA.
> Walt never proved DeMohrenschildt actually owned the 40" Carcano
> allegedly ordered from Klein's.
> Walt never proved that the bullet recovered from Walker shooting was
> copper-jacketed.
> Walt never proved 133A (deMohrenschildt BY photo) came from the SAME
> negative as CE-133A.
> Walt never proved LHO went to Mexico City in Sept./Oct. 1963.
> Walt never proved his claim that the DPD showed Weitzman a Mauser on
> 11/22/63.
> Walt never proved that George DeMohrenschildt purchased the money
> order used allegedly for the Carcano rifle order.
> Walt never proved Marina did in fact take CE-133A (backyard photo),
> and it is AUTHENTIC.
> Walt never proved Fritz was just sloppy when timing the arrest report
> ELEVEN minutes BEFORE LHO was arrested.
> Walt never proved the weight listed on the "Bill of lading" was TARE
> weight.
> Walt never proved the weight of the 40" Carcano is 7.5LBS when the ad
> the WC used says 7.0LBS.
> Walt never proved a "signed affadavit with a notary seal" signed by
> the LHO saying he was going to hijack a plane and make the pilot fly
> him to Cuba EVER existed.
> Walt never proved the rifle found on the roof was a DPD shotgun and
> NOT a Mauser as the Mentesana film shows.
> Walt said Mausers are NOT stamped on the barrel.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ø Saaaaaaaaaaaaay, Aren't you the guy who said Marina had a "folded" photo of Walker's back Yard hidden in her Shoe???
>
> Walt said Oswald was LBJ's Puppet. (No Citation here either)
>
> OSWALD POSED WITH PAINE'S M C RIFLE
>
> Brennan was NOT lying on 11/22/63..... He became a liar to protect
> himself and his family, after being threatened by the FBI .....
>
> Wally wrote;
>
> Dear Mr. Runt....You could not be more full of sh.....Yourself.....I would
> NEVER want anybody to accept something I say without checking the
> facts...Since you are an egotist and a liar, I doubt that you will admit it ...but you have to know that I always give reference to check against my posts.....And even if you won't admit it most lurkers know that this is a fact...
>
> Find out HERE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
>
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
>
> Yes he did admit that he drove the car....because it's a lot easier to be excused for an accident of driving off the road that it is for causing a death by an overdose of drugs.
>
> 9-16-09
>
> -Duh!.... The FBI said that the "Magic Bullet" (CE 399) was
> manufactured by Western Cartridge Company, and there are letters from
> officials at WCC that acknowledge that the WCC did in fact manufacture
> CE 399. So it is a FACT that WCC manufacturered the "magic
> bullet" ( for the CIA by the way)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in messagenews:c12415f5-58fc-4b58...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Sep 19, 7:46 pm, timstter <timst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 19, 2:28 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 18, 12:34 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
> > > > If the Stupid Bastard knew how to scale a picture he would know that
> > > > the model 91/38 Carcano shown in the Klein illustration is a 40 inch
> > > > long rifle.
>
> > > Let's look at the Ad and see if there's a "40" in it:
>
> > >http://i31.tinypic.com/2zsmag1.jpg
>
> > > Oswald ordered a 36" rifle with bottom sling mounts and a scope
> > > mounted from Klein's.
>
> > > 36" Carcano with scope ----- $ 19,95
>
> > > Shipping ----------------------- 1.50
> > > ______________________________
>
> > > total $ 21.45
>
> > > How much was that Oswald money order for ?
>
> > > $ 21.45
>
> > > IN OTHER WORDS, OSWALD ORDERED A 36" CARCANO NOT A 40" WEAPON
>
> > > The Depository Carcano was a 40" rifle with side sling mounts.
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq25loEpBro
>
> > > Scale the pictures all you want.
>
> > > Scaling the pictures do not change the price.
>
> > > Scaling the pictures do not change the sling mounts.
>
> > > Scaling the pictures do not explain why the FBI had to tell Klein's
> > > how to mount the scope on the 40" rifle, something they should have
> > > had experience doing.
>
> > > Keep scaling and keep SPECULATING.
>
> > > The rifle in evidence is NOT the rifle Oswald ordered.
>
> > > And NO amount of speculation can change that.
>
> > Hey Gil,
>
> > Didn't you steal some of Walt Cakebread's research in making your
> > stupid video?
>
> > Now you side with tomnln against him.
>
> It's OK.... Tom and his Gang of Goofies use some of my discoveries all
> the time and don't even know where the information that they use
> originated.
>
> I don't give a damn... Facts are facts.... And Gil is the only one of
> the gang that has a little sense.
>
> I'm sure that Gil is the only one of the gang that knows that the
> method I showed for finding the length of the rifle in the Klein ad is
> a valid way to prove that the rifle illustrated is a 40 inch long
> model 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano Short Rifle. I told Gil that the
> Cuban exiles being trained by the CIA were using Mannlicher carcanos
> with ammo that was supplied by the CIA. He's got the videos which
> show the Cubans with the Carcanos. Knowing that this bit of
> information is a FACT... gives credence to the idea that Oswald didn't
> just randomly select a Mannlicher Carcano. I believe someone told him
> that he should order a Mannlicher carcano because they could supply
> him with all the ammo he could use for such a rifle.
>
>
>
>
>
> > BTW, looks like you didn't allow my comments for your lying video to
> > stand.
>
> > How precious are you, LOL!
>
> > Why did you only use only one of the three backyard photos when you
> > made your lying, misleading video with stolen information to dupe weak
> > minds, Gil?
>
> > Looks to me like you broke a slew of commandments in one fell swoop,
> > Mr Christian.
>
> > KUTGW, Gilly!
>
> > Regards,
>
> > Tim Brennan
> > Sydney, Australia
> > *Newsgroup(s) Commentator*- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
New list of UNSUPPORTED CLAIMS by Wally!
**New – Walt never proved his claim that LHO posed with Mike Paine’s
“MC” in the one and only BY photo he claims is authentic! (Of course
he NEVER proved the photo is authentic either!)**
** New – Walt never proved his claim that Marina “folded a BY photo
and put it in her shoe to hide it!”**
**New – Walt never proved his claim that LHO was LBJ’s “puppet!”**