Frazier's Little Gem on the Bullet Fragments

[lazu...@webtv.net]

The FBI Lab's Frazier, during his WC testimony, was questioned by
Specter re: all the bullet fragments found in the Limo, two large ones
found in the front compartment, and three small found under Mrs.
Connolly's jumpseat, plus two additional fragments allegedly removed
from JFK's head at autopsy. Obviously, the Government's case depended on
all these fragments deriving from one bullet which struck JFK in the
head.

After listing the various fragments. Specter asked:

"Is it possible to state with any more certainty whether or not any of
those fragments came from the same bullet?"

Mr. Frazier. "Not definitely, no; only that they are of similar lead
composition."

"ONLY THAT THEY ARE OF SIMILAR LEAD COMPOSITION."!

Doesn't sound like they proved that all these fragments came from a
single bullet, does it? Just another weak link in the official chain of
evidence.

[David VP]

>>> "Doesn't sound like they proved that all these fragments came from a single bullet, does it? Just another weak link in the official chain of evidence." <<<

But wasn't it nice of all of those "other bullets" (i.e., the other
bullets from non-C2766 guns that CTers think were pelting JFK & JBC) to
not put in a DEFINITIVE appearance in the bodies, the hospital, or the
limousine??

IOW -- When you gather up all the fragments and whole bullets
(numbering "one" whole bullet, CE399) in the record of the case, they
add up to no more than TWO complete bullets in evidence. And every hunk
of bullet in evidence is a fragment or a whole bullet that either
positively came from Oswald's Carcano rifle or is consistent from
having come from Oswald's rifle.

Somebody tell the mere ODDS of the above occurring IF THERE HAD REALLY
BEEN MANY OTHER NON-OSWALD BULLETS PEPPERING THE VICTIMS ON NOV. 22?

The plotters just "got lucky" ... yet again. Right?

The BULLETS are the bottom-line crux of this case....and the bullet
evidence in the JFK case favors only ONE GUN (C2766) doing all of the
damage to the victims. With that one gun being found in the TSBD where
the owner of said gun was employed and would later kill a policeman.

Time for another reality check from the logical mind of Mr. Sturdivan.
Take it away, Larry.......

"The totality of reliable physical evidence, supported by eyewitness
accounts of his doing what the physical evidence shows he did, makes
the case against Lee Harvey Oswald an open and shut case. He murdered
John Kennedy and Officer Tippit and gravely wounded John Connally. The
{Mark} Lane myth of 'Oswald as Patsy' and all similar conspiracy myths
merit no serious consideration." -- L. Sturdivan

[lazu...@webtv.net]

There's no proof that any of the fragments found in the limo were
involved in the headshot. The two large fragments found in the front
compartment of the limo would have to have exited the frontal/top part
of JFK's head. There is no evidence whatsoever that there was an exit
hole in the front of JFK's head. These two fragments representing the
copper jacketing of the base end of a bullet, and the primarily lead
portion representing the nose of a bullet, are either one of three
possibilities:
1.A missed shot which struck the chrome trimming above the windshield
leaving an oval shaped dent. 2. a shot which struck JBC in the wrist
first and then hit the chrome and 3. They are plants to tie the shooting
to the MC. But even insuring that they were of "similar lead
composition" (Frazier's words), does not constitute proof that they all
came from the headshot bullet.

The three small fragments found under Nellie's jumpseat could hardly
have come fom the headshot. They were found UNDERNEATH where JBC had
been slouched. Most likely they were part of one of the strikes to JBC.
BTW, these three fragments are no longer in evidence.
Disappeared into the yawning Evidence Black Hole, along with the Harper
Fragment, the brain, tissue slides, many photos and X rays, Dr. Finck's
autopsy notes, you name it, if it has conspiracy implications, it's
gone.

The upshot is that none of these limo fragments can be tied
ballistically to the same bullet.

[David VP]

>>> "There's no proof that any of the fragments found in the limo were involved in the headshot." <<<

True. I can't deny this. But a little thing called "common sense" tells
any reasonable person that the two large front-seat fragments (and the
smaller fragments under Nellie's jump seat as well) probably came from
the fragmented bullet that hit JFK in the head.

This common-sense conclusion, of course, being based on the very, very,
very likely scenario that two and only two bullets struck any victim in
that car on 11/22.

And since CE399 is most-certainly linkable to Oswald's rifle, which was
located in the TSBD when JFK happened to drive by that building -- we
can know that that bullet was carried into Parkland via John Connally
(since Kennedy's stretcher was never in the area of the hospital where
Tomlinson found this bullet). And "planting" that bullet prior to 2 PM
CST on 11/22 is totally ludicrous from every POV, even a
Frame-The-Patsy one...and everybody should know why (but the kooks
pretend they don't).

And since only two bullets hit any victims, and since (obviously) CE399
is one of these two bullets; and since CE399 could clearly not have
produced those limo fragments....then it becomes clear that either a
"missed" shot produced the limo fragments or the head shot produced
them.

The "missed shot" theory is pretty far-fetched, due to the fact that a
full-velocity hit to that chrome strip or the windshield would have
almost certainly resulted in the bullet completely penetrating either
the chrome or the window glass...which did not happen. (Per Bob
Frazier's WC testimony; I suppose he's one of the evil cover-up
"agents" too, right?)

The Tague wounding tends to rule out the "missed shot hit the chrome"
theory as well (IMO anyway).

>>> "1. A missed shot which struck the chrome trimming above the windshield leaving an oval shaped dent." <<<

Couldn't have happened (as described above). A shot at full velocity
would not have left merely a dent in the chrome.

>>> "2. A shot which struck JBC in the wrist first and then hit the chrome." <<<

Extremely unlikely (esp. if you're purporting that a FULL-VELOCITY shot
hit JBC's wrist without going through either JBC or JFK first). Because
that scenario would have done more damage to Connally's wrist than was
done. That's in the WR too. But, naturally, it has to be disregarded,
because of the kooks' aversion to anything within it.

>>> "3. They are plants to tie the shooting to the MC." <<<

Which means that some plotter had to fire a bullet from Oswald's rifle
into something (?) to fragment the bullet pretty badly, and then place
these fragments into the limo before Robert Frazier's detailed
examination of the car late on the night of 11/22.

Impossible?? Well, I suppose not. Esp. if you reside in CT-ville, where
EVERY piece of Oswald-incriminating evidence is questioned. But is
there ANY hard evidence to back up the notion that these fragments were
"planted"?

Answer -- No. Of course not.

But just the accusation is enough to make it a viable alternate
solution for certain CT-Kooks. I'd love to see Vince B. dive into such
unsupportable theories. He'd be in 7th heaven!

>>> "The three small fragments found under Nellie's jumpseat could hardly have come fom the headshot. They were found UNDERNEATH where JBC had been slouched." <<<

But who's to say that's where these tiny fragments STARTED OUT. They
could have easily been kicked inadverently under the jump seat. The car
wasn't frozen in time just after the head shot. The fragments could
have easily moved from where they first hit.

Reasonably-speaking, I see no reason to think head-shot fragments
couldn't have ended up almost anywhere inside the limo, given the fact
that blood and brain tissue was, in fact, all over the inside and
outside of the vehicle.

>>> "The upshot is that none of these limo fragments can be tied ballistically to the same bullet." <<<

And, naturally, per the stringent CT-Kook rule, which reads as follows
--- "Every Single Thing Must Be Proven To A Kook's Satisfaction Or Else
Something 'Conspiratorial' Has To Be Believed" --- if the bullet
fragments in the car can't positively be tied to just one single
bullet, this MUST mean that multiple bullets caused these fragments.
(Even though the two largest portions came positively from Oswald's
gun.)

Kook Logic. That explains the CT mindset the best I think.

The very same type of CT-leaning logic exists, of course, in the Tippit
case (per many CTers) -- i.e., the bullets taken from Tippit couldn't
be tied to Oswald's revolver "to the exclusion" (except via Mr.
Nichols' analysis, however, re. 1 of the bullets), therefore this opens
the CT floodgates for all kinds of other weapons (and gunmen) to be
involved in the Tippit murder.

The kook will ignore the 99 things that say "Oswald Killed Tippit", in
order to cling to the impossible idea that another gunman (or gunmen)
killed the officer.

Also -- It's very, very likely (per NAA analysis) that the two larger
limo fragments were from the same bullet. And even without the NAA
analysis, just ordinary common sense tells us that those two front-seat
fragments are from the same bullet --- one portion was a nose portion
of a WCC/MC bullet that positively came from the barrel of Oswald's
C2766 rifle; the other was the base of a WCC/MC bullet that positively
came from the barrel of that very same gun (Oswald's C2766 MC rifle).

[Anthony Marsh]

lazu...@webtv.net wrote:
> There's no proof that any of the fragments found in the limo were
> involved in the headshot. The two large fragments found in the front

I agree with that. Could be, but no proof they had to be from the head shot.

> compartment of the limo would have to have exited the frontal/top part
> of JFK's head. There is no evidence whatsoever that there was an exit
> hole in the front of JFK's head. These two fragments representing the

I agree with that, but some WC defenders think the semi-circular defect
in the frontal bone is an exit wound.

> copper jacketing of the base end of a bullet, and the primarily lead
> portion representing the nose of a bullet, are either one of three
> possibilities:
> 1.A missed shot which struck the chrome trimming above the windshield

Do you think it could be a direct hit? Cutler does. Fuhrman thinks it
was the bullet which exited Kennedy's throat.

> leaving an oval shaped dent. 2. a shot which struck JBC in the wrist
> first and then hit the chrome and 3. They are plants to tie the shooting

That's what I think.

> to the MC. But even insuring that they were of "similar lead

Hard to see how they could have been planted.

> composition" (Frazier's words), does not constitute proof that they all
> came from the headshot bullet.
>
> The three small fragments found under Nellie's jumpseat could hardly
> have come fom the headshot. They were found UNDERNEATH where JBC had

In fact they were found underneath the jump seat after it had been
lifted up. One possible mechanism is that both Connallys had been
sprayed with spent fragments which landed on their cloths and the roses.
Then when they got up and folded up the jump seats to get out of the
limousine at Parkland the spent fragments could fall off their clothing
or the roses.

> been slouched. Most likely they were part of one of the strikes to JBC.

Most likely, but it seems less likely that the three tiny fragments came
from the two large fragments found in the front seat.

> BTW, these three fragments are no longer in evidence.
> Disappeared into the yawning Evidence Black Hole, along with the Harper
> Fragment, the brain, tissue slides, many photos and X rays, Dr. Finck's
> autopsy notes, you name it, if it has conspiracy implications, it's
> gone.
>
> The upshot is that none of these limo fragments can be tied
> ballistically to the same bullet.
>

Excellent summary.

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Anthony Marsh wrote:
> lazu...@webtv.net wrote:
> > There's no proof that any of the fragments found in the limo were
> > involved in the headshot. The two large fragments found in the front
>
> I agree with that. Could be, but no proof they had to be from the head shot.
>
> > compartment of the limo would have to have exited the frontal/top part
> > of JFK's head. There is no evidence whatsoever that there was an exit
> > hole in the front of JFK's head. These two fragments representing the
>
> I agree with that, but some WC defenders think the semi-circular defect
> in the frontal bone is an exit wound.

Only becasue some forensic pathologists believe that as well, and they
are very qualified to have that opinion.

>
> > copper jacketing of the base end of a bullet, and the primarily lead
> > portion representing the nose of a bullet, are either one of three
> > possibilities:
> > 1.A missed shot which struck the chrome trimming above the windshield
>
> Do you think it could be a direct hit? Cutler does. Fuhrman thinks it
> was the bullet which exited Kennedy's throat.

Not enough damage for a direct hit.

>
> > leaving an oval shaped dent. 2. a shot which struck JBC in the wrist
> > first and then hit the chrome and 3. They are plants to tie the shooting
>
> That's what I think.

The amount of damage to Connally's wirst, both soft tissue and bony
damage, argue strongly against his wrist being the first hit of a
bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2160 fps. There's just not enough
damage. All one has to do is look at the xrays of the test shooting at
cadavar wrists, or the photographs of the same.

>
> > to the MC. But even insuring that they were of "similar lead
>
> Hard to see how they could have been planted.
>
> > composition" (Frazier's words), does not constitute proof that they all
> > came from the headshot bullet.
> >
> > The three small fragments found under Nellie's jumpseat could hardly
> > have come fom the headshot. They were found UNDERNEATH where JBC had
>
> In fact they were found underneath the jump seat after it had been
> lifted up. One possible mechanism is that both Connallys had been
> sprayed with spent fragments which landed on their cloths and the roses.
> Then when they got up and folded up the jump seats to get out of the
> limousine at Parkland the spent fragments could fall off their clothing
> or the roses.

Very possible.

In fact, I think the fragments were actually found in the inboard track
(floor mounted track the seat slides on) of the left jumpseat. The
tracks are exposed when the seats are folded up and forward.

The fragments could also have deflected into that location rather
easily.

>
> > been slouched. Most likely they were part of one of the strikes to JBC.
>
> Most likely, but it seems less likely that the three tiny fragments came
> from the two large fragments found in the front seat.
>
> > BTW, these three fragments are no longer in evidence.
> > Disappeared into the yawning Evidence Black Hole, along with the Harper
> > Fragment, the brain, tissue slides, many photos and X rays, Dr. Finck's
> > autopsy notes, you name it, if it has conspiracy implications, it's
> > gone.
> >
> > The upshot is that none of these limo fragments can be tied
> > ballistically to the same bullet.
> >
>
>
> Excellent summary.

Hardly.

[David VP]

When examining the limo bullet evidence, there's not one single thing
that leads a reasonable researcher AWAY from the idea that Lee Harvey
Oswald's MC rifle accounted for all the fragments and limo damage and
bodily damage to victims that exists in limo X-100 on 11/22/63.

CTers will place their spin on this perfectly-acceptable "It Was All
Oswald" evidence to paint the usual conspiratorial picture -- but when
you look at all of those fragments, and the vehicle damage, and the
damage to the victims themselves -- every scrap of it could have been
caused by Lee Oswald and his one MC weapon found on the 6th Floor.

And the LACK of any definitive, PROOF-POSITIVE ballistics evidence that
positively debunks the notion that all of those fragments are from
Oswald's gun is a fairly key point not to be dismissed as well.

For, exactly how likely is it that SEVERAL gunmen sprayed that car with
bullets and, at the end of the day, what we find is ONLY stuff that
either conclusively leads back to Oswald's weapon or is evidence that
is consistent with doing that same thing?

Are we to just accept as fact that all of those other bullets and
fragments got "swept under the carpet" and "eliminated" by plotters? I
guess the plotters must have done just that....if you live in Kook
Town, that is. Either that, or those "other gunmen" were the lousiest
shooters in Texas.

[lazu...@webtv.net]

If you guys weren't such persistent lone nutters, you would see the NAA
means nothing now, so there is no solid connection regarding the limo
fragments, or JBC fragments to the MC.

[lazu...@webtv.net]

Also, don't you lone nutters find it just a little bit curious that the
main Doctors who saw JFK at Parkland-Dr. Clark,Perry, McClelland,
Carrico, Peters-none of them saw any gaping exit wound in the front of
the head, let alone the massive damage as seen in the Z Film to this
area. There was a small entrance wound near the hairline high in temple
area as seen by Dr. Crenshaw, James Jenkins & X-Ray Tech Jerrol Custer
at bethesda and Dennis David from suppressed pictures, but the
afforementioned Parkland Experts only saw a gaping wound in the
occipital, far too large for an entrance.

[tomnln]

WRONG WRONG WRONG;

See John Lattimer's book "Lincoln & Kennedy".

Page 250 specifically states thatb THAT Rifle belonged to Lattimer.

See alt.binaries.pictures for photo of that page.

Thread will be "Lattimer".

"David VP" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1155579224.3...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

[tomnln]

Entrance to Right Temple also reported by 4 others.

Douglas Kiker.
Seth Kantor.
Malcolm Kilduff.
Hurchel Jacks.

<lazu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1467-44E...@storefull-3235.bay.webtv.net...

[Todd W. Vaughan]

tomnln wrote:
> Entrance to Right Temple also reported by 4 others.
>
> Douglas Kiker.
> Seth Kantor.
> Malcolm Kilduff.
> Hurchel Jacks.

Ever talk to Kantor or Kilduff, Tomnln, and see what they had to
sayabout this?

Ever discuss "evidence and testimony"with them?

Or are you just an "armchair" researcher?

[lazu...@webtv.net]

Thank you, Tony, for your endorsement of my summary re: the limo
fragments. Nice to occasionally get some appreciation for one's efforts
among the maelstrom of programmed assaults, based, not on the physical
evidence itself, but on biased opinions, assumptions and general LN
predispostion, regardless of contrary evidence, and unfortuately, often
presented with revolting and unnecessary nastiness.

[tomnln]

TOAD;
Are you Denying those people reported what I said they reported???
Want me to Prove ANOTHER Lie by you???

Confirm or, deny.

"Todd W. Vaughan" <twvaug...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1155584355.7...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

[tomnln]

Are you Denying they reported "Enter Right Temple"???

Go here for MORE toad vaughan LIES.

http://whokilledjfk.net/

"Todd W. Vaughan" <twvaug...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1155584355.7...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>

[Anthony Marsh]

David VP wrote:
>>>> "Doesn't sound like they proved that all these fragments came from a single bullet, does it? Just another weak link in the official chain of evidence." <<<
>
>
> But wasn't it nice of all of those "other bullets" (i.e., the other
> bullets from non-C2766 guns that CTers think were pelting JFK & JBC) to
> not put in a DEFINITIVE appearance in the bodies, the hospital, or the
> limousine??
>

You won't expect to find bullets of that type in the bodies.

> IOW -- When you gather up all the fragments and whole bullets
> (numbering "one" whole bullet, CE399) in the record of the case, they
> add up to no more than TWO complete bullets in evidence. And every hunk
> of bullet in evidence is a fragment or a whole bullet that either
> positively came from Oswald's Carcano rifle or is consistent from
> having come from Oswald's rifle.
>

You are talking about weight. Another important factor is the number of
wounds caused. Another important factor is chemical composition of
fragments. And you haven't even addressed how much lead remains in
Connally's body.

> Somebody tell the mere ODDS of the above occurring IF THERE HAD REALLY
> BEEN MANY OTHER NON-OSWALD BULLETS PEPPERING THE VICTIMS ON NOV. 22?
>
> The plotters just "got lucky" ... yet again. Right?
>
> The BULLETS are the bottom-line crux of this case....and the bullet
> evidence in the JFK case favors only ONE GUN (C2766) doing all of the
> damage to the victims. With that one gun being found in the TSBD where
> the owner of said gun was employed and would later kill a policeman.
>

No. How can C2766 fire the fatal shot from the grassy knoll when it is
in the TSBD?

[David VP]

>>> "If you guys weren't such persistent lone nutters, you would see the NAA means nothing now, so there is no solid connection regarding the limo fragments, or JBC fragments to the MC." <<<

You're cracked in the head!

Are you DENYING the fact that both front-seat fragments were tied to
C2766 conclusively and "to the exclusion"??

If you deny this....you're double-cracked in the cranium!

Plus -- COMMON SENSE ALONE ties those fragments to the head shot (and,
of course, to Oswald's rifle). But, on top of the CS&L, there's also
the verifiable ballistics link of the two large fragments to C2766.

I didn't think even the kookiest of the kooks actually denied the
linkability of those two front-seat fragments to Oswald's MC. But,
there's always a first time for every kooky theory.

Plus -- Only a rabid anti-LNer would say the "NAA means nothing now"
--- as if the NAA analysis, in both '64 and '78, is completely
destroyed by newer technology.

IOW -- To a CT-Kook, the slate is now suddenly completely clean again
re. virtually ALL of the bullets and fragments in this case....with the
NAA analysis not even to be CONSIDERED as "potentially" accurate (even
though it was deemed VERY accurate, circa 1960s/1970s).

But, now, suddenly (according to some CTers in the "Anybody But Oswald"
clique), it seems that the bullets aren't even to be considered
COMPATIBLE with Oswald's rifle in any fashion at all.

Kooky logic there. Always has been.

[David VP]

>>> "How can C2766 fire the fatal shot from the grassy knoll when it is in the TSBD?" <<<

Yes. Exactly. Of course. 10-4. Wilco. Duh.

Which is the whole point of this essay below re. the idiocy of a
"Multi-Gun, One-Patsy" pre-arranged assassination plot (which so many
CTers have embraced to their bosoms)....

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/606503e4d63e74ad

[tomnln]

OPINIONS? You offer OPINIONS?

While my website produces Official Records.

Are you Serious?

"David VP" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:1155615239.5...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

[Todd W. Vaughan]

tomnln wrote:
> TOAD;
> Are you Denying those people reported what I said they reported???

No, I am not, nor did I say I was, you blubbering idiot.

I asked you if you had "Ever talked) to Kantor or Kilduff, Tomnln, and

see what they had to say about this?"

I'm not sure Kantor "reported" that (i.e. that he had it published as
part of a story), but it was in his notes. I interviewed Kantor in the
mid 1990, just before he died. He didn't arrive at Parkland until well
after JFK was taken in, so he certainly didn't see the wound - he
probably got his description from his watching Kilduff point to his
right temple at the press conference.

Same for Kiker. I didn't interview him, but he was on the same Press
Bus as Kantor so without a doubt he arrived after JFK was taken inside.
A photograph in POP shows him taking notes outside of Parkland in the
emergency room parking lot.

The funny thing about Kilduff is, and you would know this if you had
done your research, Kilduff thinks the head wound was on the LEFT side
of the head (see High Treason 2, I think). So how reliable of a witness
does that make him? Also, when I interviewed him in the mid 1990's, he
said the entire LEFT forehead/side of the head looked like "ground
hamburger" and that it was a large wound. I asked him if he saw a entry
wound in the right temple, and he said no. He was sure the wound was on
the left side of the head.

So much for the 3 Ks (Kantor, Kiker, and Kilduff).

As for Hurchel Jacks, I'd have to check, but I don't think he said he
saw a specific entry wound, just a wound. If you have something
different, post it.

[tomnln]

I give proven Liars Nothing, until you make a Committment.

Accept or DENY what I said about,
Kiker
Kilduff
Kantor
And Jacks

As for your claim that you spoke to these men, I never take the word of a
Proven Liar. YOU.

As in Bowers seeing 3 men climb onto a freight train.
As in frames 314-315 transposed in Volume XVIII.

As for Hurchel Jacks, I'll post it in alt.binaries.pictures under "For Liar
toad vaughan".

"Todd W. Vaughan" <twvaug...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1155649964.4...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

[Todd W. Vaughan]

tomnln wrote:
> I give proven Liars Nothing, until you make a Committment.
>
> Accept or DENY what I said about,
> Kiker
> Kilduff
> Kantor
> And Jacks

I already addressed the issue.

>
> As for your claim that you spoke to these men, I never take the word of a
> Proven Liar. YOU.

I don't care if you believe me or not. I tape recorded these
interviews. Kantor even sent me some documents.

You're a loon.

>
> As in Bowers seeing 3 men climb onto a freight train.

Where does Bowers himslef say that.

All you have is hearsay, which, as you know, isopt admissable in court.

> As in frames 314-315 transposed in Volume XVIII.

Addressed.

>
> As for Hurchel Jacks, I'll post it in alt.binaries.pictures under "For Liar
> toad vaughan".

Why don't you just quote him, idiot?

[tomnln]

BUSTED LIAR.

Why don't you make those tapes available on your website?
I put audios on my website.

Lying Again???

"Todd W. Vaughan" <twvaug...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1155660251....@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

>
> tomnln wrote:
>> I give proven Liars Nothing, until you make a Committment.
>>
>> Accept or DENY what I said about,
>> Kiker
>> Kilduff
>> Kantor
>> And Jacks
>

===============================================================

> I already addressed the issue.

Sure toad Sure.
You're askin me to take the word of a Proven Liar on Multiple issues.
=================================================================

>> As for your claim that you spoke to these men, I never take the word of
>> a
>> Proven Liar. YOU.
>
> I don't care if you believe me or not. I tape recorded these
> interviews. Kantor even sent me some documents.

Put them on a website?

> You're a loon.

You're a Proven Liar on Multiple Issues.
====================================================================

>>
>> As in Bowers seeing 3 men climb onto a freight train.

> Where does Bowers himslef say that.

> All you have is hearsay, which, as you know, isopt admissable in court.

NOW, you're calling the DPD/FBI Liars???
===================================================================

>> As in frames 314-315 transposed in Volume XVIII.
>
> Addressed.

You SURE Did. You Denied they were Transposed.
I Posted an Admittance by Hoover. So, you look like a LIAR Again.
======================================================================

>> As for Hurchel Jacks, I'll post it in alt.binaries.pictures under "For
>> Liar
>> toad vaughan".
>
> Why don't you just quote him, idiot?

Because when I post Official Records Everyone but You can see what a LIAR
you are.
It's called Credibility. Something you're Unfamiliar with.

It also make you look like the Criminal that you ARE. THAT's WHY.
========================================================================

[Todd W. Vaughan]

tomnln wrote:
> BUSTED LIAR.
>
> Why don't you make those tapes available on your website?

What website?

Are you claiming now that I have a website?

> I put audios on my website.
>

Good for you.

[tomnln]

Ooooooh Darn It.

Now we have to take toad's word for everything he calims. NOT!

Folks, you don't have to take ANYONE's word for Anything.

The "Official Records" for Everything I say can be found HERE>>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/

toad don't even "promise" his words are true.

I Prove they are NOT.

See toad's Resume' HERE>>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/frick.htm

"Todd W. Vaughan" <twvaug...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1155661842.2...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

[Todd W. Vaughan]

tomnln wrote:
> Ooooooh Darn It.
>
> Now we have to take toad's word for everything he calims. NOT!
>
> Folks, you don't have to take ANYONE's word for Anything.
>
> The "Official Records" for Everything I say can be found HERE>>>>
> http://whokilledjfk.net/
>
>
> toad don't even "promise" his words are true.
>
> I Prove they are NOT.
>
> See toad's Resume' HERE>>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/frick.htm
>

You're a Nutcase, Tom.

[tomnln]

YOU are the NUTCASE toad;

If you think anyone would take your word for Anything.

You can post any exhibits of evidence you want on alt.binaries.pictures just
like I do.
You can probably post them on McAdams group.

He never Censors Felon Supporters.

http://whokilledjfk.net/

"Todd W. Vaughan" <twvaug...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1155665500.7...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

[tomnln]

TOAD;

By "Your" Standards, you will have to PROVE you >> Ever discuss "evidence
and testimony"with them?

I'll Bet one of the farms you CAN"T

"tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote in message news:...

> Are you Denying they reported "Enter Right Temple"???
>
> Go here for MORE toad vaughan LIES.
>

> http://whokilledjfk.net/
>
>
>
> "Todd W. Vaughan" <twvaug...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

[garag...@gmail.com]

Did someone say bullet evidence?

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/15321194.htm

Posted on Sun, Aug. 20, 2006

Challenge to lone gunman theory

By Betsy Mason
CONTRA COSTA TIMES

LIVERMORE - More than four decades after his death, John F. Kennedy's
assassination remains the hottest cold case in U.S. history, and the
clues continue to trickle in. Now Lawrence Livermore Laboratory
scientists say a key piece of evidence supporting the lone gunman
theory should be thrown out.

A new look at clues gleaned from studies of crime-scene bullet
fragments shows they may have been misinterpreted.

"It basically shatters what some people call the best physical evidence
around," said chemist Pat Grant, director of the lab's Forensic Science
Center.

Grant and Livermore Lab metallurgist Erik Randich found that the
chemical "fingerprints" used to identify which bullets the fragments
came from are actually more like run-of-the-mill tire tracks than
one-of-a-kind fingerprints.

"I've spoken with people on both sides of the conspiracy divide and
there's no question but that (Randich and Grant's) work is going to be
very difficult, if not outright impossible, to refute," said Gary
Aguilar, a San Francisco ophthalmologist and single-bullet skeptic who
has studied the Kennedy assassination for more than a decade. "It looks
impregnable."

The government's claim that Lee Harvey Oswald alone killed Kennedy
spawned a vitriolic debate between conspiracy theorists and lone gunman
supporters that rages to this day.

In 1964, the Warren Commission, established by President Lyndon B.
Johnson to investigate the assassination, concluded that Oswald fired
just three shots from the Texas School Book Depository in Dallas: The
first missed entirely. The second passed through the president's neck,
into Texas Governor John Connally's body under his right arm, out
through his chest and then splintered his wrist and wounded his left
thigh. The third fatally hit Kennedy in the head.

Single-bullet theory

Even though three bullets were involved, this scenario became known as
the "single-bullet theory" because it requires the second bullet to
account for all the nonfatal injuries to both Kennedy and Connally.

The injuries to Kennedy's neck and to Connally happened within a split
second of each other. So either the injuries to both men came from a
single bullet from Oswald or from at least two bullets from more than
one shooter. Oswald's rifle couldn't have fired two shots in such rapid
succession.

So in order for Oswald to be the lone gunman, it had to be a single
bullet.

Skeptics and believers alike say the bullets amount to the most
important piece of physical evidence for the single-bullet theory.
Throwing it out is like removing a leg from a four-legged table.

"Warren Commission defenders consider this evidence central to the
single-bullet theory," Aguilar said.

But Grant and Randich say the bullet lead analysis was faulty. Both
Randich and Grant are forensic scientists at Livermore Lab but
researched the JFK case on their own time. Their work is the latest
chapter in an ongoing saga.

Lead impurities

In the immediate aftermath of the assassination, the FBI analyzed five
bullet fragments recovered from the limousine, the governor's wrist,
the president's brain and from a hospital stretcher.

The FBI used a technique known as "neutron activation" analysis to find
the precise composition of the fragments. By determining the exact
amounts of impurities in the lead, such as antimony and silver, they
hoped to be able to tell which fragments came from the same bullet. But
the FBI decided it couldn't draw any conclusions from the results.

In 1976, the U.S. House of Representatives formed an assassination
committee to investigate the deaths of JFK and Martin Luther King Jr.
The move was largely a response to hundreds of books, documentaries and
magazine pieces questioning the government's version of the JFK
assassination, as well as public outcry following the first airing of
Abraham Zapruder's home movie of the assassination on the television
show, "Good Night America."

The committee called in nuclear chemist Vincent Guinn, one of the
world's foremost experts on neutron activation, to reanalyze the bits
of bullet lead.

Unlike the FBI, Guinn drew a very clear conclusion. He said the
antimony in the fragments clearly showed they all came from two, and
only two, bullets of the type used by Oswald's gun, which supports the
Warren Commission's lone gunman theory.

According to Guinn, one set of fragments from the president's brain and
the limousine in front of the president had around .06 percent
antimony, and all came from the bullet that killed JFK. The other set
of fragments from the governor's wrist and a nearly intact bullet found
on a stretcher at the hospital had closer to .08 percent antimony and
were pieces of the infamous "single bullet."

Based on evidence including the bullet lead, the committee concluded in
1979 that both shots had come from Oswald's gun.

They did not, however, rule out the possibility of a conspiracy. In
fact, they strongly suspected a second shooter was present that day,
but based on Guinn's data, any second shooter had missed the target.

Or maybe not.

"It turns out that if you really analyze the results correctly, then
the results are wrong," said Grant.

Fatal flaw

Randich and Grant's study grew out of work Randich did in 2002 that
exposed a fatal flaw in the FBI's use of bullet-lead evidence to
connect suspects with crime scenes in thousands of criminal cases
during the past three decades.

The FBI claimed that like a fingerprint, each batch of lead has a
unique chemical signature, so the specific amounts of impurities in a
lead bullet could match it with other bullets from the same batch. For
example, if bullets at a suspect's house were found to have the same
impurity signature as a bullet or fragment found at a murder scene, it
was treated as evidence tying the suspect to the crime.

Randich's training as a metallurgist told him there was something wrong
with this reasoning.

"I realized these people could put my sons in jail with bogus science,"
he said. "I thought I ought to do something about it."

By analyzing years of data kept by lead smelters, Randich found that
batches are not unique, and bullets from different batches of bullets
poured months or years apart could have the same chemical signature.
And bullets poured from the start of a batch could differ slightly, but
measurably, from those at the end.

He has testified in about a dozen cases. Because of his work, courts
now reject bullet-lead analysis and the FBI no longer uses it as
evidence.

JFK case problems

The JFK case has similar problems.

According to Guinn, the type of bullets used by Oswald happened to have
highly variable amounts of antimony.

Guinn said the variation between bullets of this type was so great that
he could use it to tell individual bullets apart, even from the same
batch of lead.

Randich and Grant say that assumption is dead wrong.

They analyzed the same type of bullets and showed that within a single
bullet, there is a significant variation in impurities on a microscopic
scale. The range of concentrations of impurities in each bullet is
large enough to make small fragments from different parts of the same
bullet have very different chemical fingerprints.

Some of the fragments in the JFK case are so small that the differences
in antimony could be explained entirely by this microscopic variation,
instead of by differences between bullets, they said. Randich and
Grant's study was published in July in the Journal of Forensic
Sciences.

One to five bullets

"We don't know if there were two bullets," said Randich. "There could
have been two bullets, but the lead composition data shows there could
be anywhere from one to five bullets."

The bullet found on the stretcher is missing some lead, but not enough
to account for all the other fragments. So there had to be more than
one bullet. But Grant and Randich say there is no way to tell how many
more, at least from the bullet lead.

Losing Guinn's bullet-lead evidence is a major blow to the
single-bullet theory.

That evidence "knits together the core physical evidence into an
airtight case against Lee Oswald," according to a 2004 paper by Larry
Sturdivan and Ken Rahn in an issue of Journal of Radioanalytical and
Nuclear Chemistry that celebrated Vincent Guinn after his death. "It
is, thus, the key to resolving the major controversies in the JFK
assassination and putting the matter to rest," the paper said.

Rahn, an atmospheric chemist recently retired from the University of
Rhode Island, stands by this statement and Guinn's research despite
Randich and Grant's study.

He says he believes it is possible that microscopic variation occurs
within bullets of this type, but Grant and Randich can't say for sure
whether it happened in the JFK bullets because they didn't analyze
those particular fragments.

Rahn thinks it is far more likely the fragments fell into two distinct
groups, one with .06 percent antimony and the other with .08 percent,
because they came from two distinct bullets.

This fits the Warren Commission's conclusion that Oswald was the lone
shooter, and two of the three bullets he shot hit the occupants of the
president's limousine, Rahn said.

Grant counters that the two groups of bullet fragments might not
actually be that distinct. The margin of error associated with the
antimony analysis means that, statistically, the concentrations are too
close to separate into groups.

Although Randich and Grant's research doesn't solve the Kennedy
assassination, it certainly does weaken the case for a lone gunman.

"In recent years, the (bullet) fragment evidence has become one of the
key struts supporting the single-bullet theory," Aguilar said. "Randich
and Grant have knocked this slat out from under the theory."

David VP wrote:
> >>> "Doesn't sound like they proved that all these fragments came from a single bullet, does it? Just another weak link in the official chain of evidence." <<<
>
>
> But wasn't it nice of all of those "other bullets" (i.e., the other
> bullets from non-C2766 guns that CTers think were pelting JFK & JBC) to
> not put in a DEFINITIVE appearance in the bodies, the hospital, or the
> limousine??
>

> IOW -- When you gather up all the fragments and whole bullets
> (numbering "one" whole bullet, CE399) in the record of the case, they
> add up to no more than TWO complete bullets in evidence. And every hunk
> of bullet in evidence is a fragment or a whole bullet that either
> positively came from Oswald's Carcano rifle or is consistent from
> having come from Oswald's rifle.
>

> Somebody tell the mere ODDS of the above occurring IF THERE HAD REALLY
> BEEN MANY OTHER NON-OSWALD BULLETS PEPPERING THE VICTIMS ON NOV. 22?
>
> The plotters just "got lucky" ... yet again. Right?
>
> The BULLETS are the bottom-line crux of this case....and the bullet
> evidence in the JFK case favors only ONE GUN (C2766) doing all of the
> damage to the victims. With that one gun being found in the TSBD where
> the owner of said gun was employed and would later kill a policeman.
>