DAVID FERRIE AND HIS INTERVIEW WITH THE FBI ON 11/25/63
David Von Pein
www.MaryFerrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=287
I've recently been reading through portions of Warren Commission
Document #75 (CD 75), which consists of various reports relating to
the FBI's investigation of the assassination of President Kennedy, and
I have been fascinated by the lengthy and very detailed interview of
David Ferrie that was conducted by two FBI special agents on November
25, 1963 (the day of JFK's funeral).
In the multi-page FBI interview, which begins on Page 285 of CD 75
(linked above), almost every minute of David Ferrie's activities and
whereabouts on the dates of 11/22/63 through 11/25/63 are discussed
and dissected, including the names and addresses of the various motels
that he and his two companions (Al Beauboeuf and Melvin Coffee) stayed
at during Ferrie's mini-"vacation" to multiple cities in the states of
Louisiana and Texas, which was a driving trip that commenced (per
Ferrie) approximately six hours after President Kennedy had been
assassinated in Dallas. According to the FBI report, Ferrie made the
excursion to "merely relax" [CD 75; p.288].
There are still many conspiracy theorists who firmly believe that
David W. Ferrie was a key "conspirator" in the murder of President
John F. Kennedy, with some of these same conspiracists also believing
that Ferrie was murdered in order to keep him from spilling any
additional beans concerning his alleged involvement in Kennedy's
assassination. (Ferrie's death on February 22, 1967, however, was
ruled a "natural" death by the New Orleans coroner.)
But after taking a detailed look at the 11/25/63 FBI interview of
Ferrie in CD 75, a logical question immediately entered my
head....this question:
If Dave Ferrie had been involved (in any way) as a conspirator
in the assassination of President Kennedy, then why on Earth didn't he
make arrangements to GET HIMSELF OUT OF THE COUNTRY immediately after
(or even BEFORE) the assassination?
But not only did Ferrie NOT flee the country on 11/22/63, he took a
three-day driving trip with two of his friends (who would be able to
confirm Ferrie's whereabouts and activities), which was a trip that
included many different stops in several cities and towns in Louisiana
and Texas (the latter state, of course, being the very same state
where Kennedy was killed).
And during this automobile trip, Ferrie came into contact with many
additional witnesses who can verify where he was located during the
days that immediately followed JFK's assassination.
Therefore, we aren't forced to accept ONLY Ferrie's word for the
things he told the FBI on 11/25/63, which I think is an important
point to be made, particularly when the following question is asked
(mostly by conspiracy theorists who want to implicate Ferrie in a plot
to kill JFK):
Did David Ferrie really travel to Houston and go ice skating
shortly after President Kennedy's assassination?
In Oliver Stone's movie "JFK", Stone almost certainly wants people
watching his film to believe that Ferrie was a liar when he told Jim
Garrison on November 25, 1963 (the very same day of Ferrie's lengthy
interview with the FBI, by the way), that he (Ferrie) drove to Houston
in a heavy thunderstorm on the evening of 11/22/63 and then went ice
skating at a local Houston skating rink.
In Stone's motion picture, Garrison tells Ferrie that he doesn't think
Ferrie's story about driving to Houston to go ice skating is
believable, and therefore Ferrie is detained by Garrison's office for
further questioning.
But what Oliver Stone doesn't tell his movie audience (naturally) is
that Ferrie's account about travelling to Houston and going ice
skating was FULLY CORROBORATED by other people and was proven to be a
factual story.*
* = Now I will admit that Garrison, at the precise time he interviewed
Ferrie on November 25th, couldn't have known for a fact whether
Ferrie's story was the truth or not, but I think it's fairly obvious
that Oliver Stone wanted the millions of people watching his 1991 film
to believe that Ferrie wasn't telling the truth about taking a trip to
Houston (and other cities) shortly after the assassination took place.
One of the witnesses who was able to verify a major portion of
Ferrie's 1963 statement to the FBI was Rowland Charles (Chuck)
Rolland, who was the President and General Manager of the Winterland
Ice Skating Rink in Houston, Texas.
On February 12, 1969, during the New Orleans trial of Clay Shaw,
Rolland testified that Ferrie (and two companions of Ferrie's) visited
the Winterland Rink in Houston on the afternoon of November 23, 1963,
with Ferrie staying for quite some time.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/rolland.htm
The 11/25/63 FBI report states that "Ferrie said that he had been
considering for some time the feasibility and possibility of opening
an ice skating rink in New Orleans" [CD 75; p. 288].
Later the same day (11/23/63), Ferrie visited another ice-skating rink
in the Houston area--the Bellaire Skating Rink--where Ferrie said he
stayed for "approximately 45 minutes to 1 hour" [CD 75; p.289].
Now, I suppose the conspiracy believers might be asking this: Well, so
what? What do Ferrie's actions and movements AFTER the assassination
have to do with whether or not he participated in a plot to kill
Kennedy?
But in response to the above question, I'd then pose the following
question to the conspiracy theorists who believe that David Ferrie was
part of a sinister plot to kill JFK in November 1963:
If Dave Ferrie had played a part in a conspiracy to murder John
F. Kennedy, what is the likelihood that he would have had a desire to
drive to Texas on the evening of 11/22/63 (the same day that such a
conspiracy to kill JFK was successfully accomplished in Dallas) in
order for Ferrie to visit a couple of ice-skating rinks in Houston?
Now, yes, I suppose it's POSSIBLE that a person who had just been
involved in a secretive plan to assassinate the President of the
United States MIGHT want to jump into his car and make tracks toward
the VERY SAME STATE in which the assassination had just taken place in
order to engage in a pleasurable activity such as ice skating.
But, in my opinion, if Mr. Ferrie had been involved (in even the
tiniest way) in a plot to kill Kennedy, taking such a trip to visit
two ice skating establishments in Houston at that particular point in
time is something that simply does not make any sense whatsoever.
Because at that particular point in time on November 22-25, 1963, if
he had been a behind-the-scenes conspirator in JFK's killing, Ferrie
would most certainly have been totally consumed with thoughts about
the Presidential assassination he had helped orchestrate, in addition
to the efforts he most certainly would have been making at that time
to ensure his future safety and freedom (while trying to avoid capture
for what he had done).
I ask: If David Ferrie was a guilty plotter, do his known actions
during the period of November 22-25, 1963, make any logical sense at
all? I say they do not.
In fact, if Ferrie had been guilty of conspiracy to murder JFK, it
really makes no sense at all for him to have still been anywhere
within the UNITED STATES at any point in time on the dates of November
22-25, 1963 (since Ferrie, himself, was certainly not one of the
actual "gunmen" in Dallas; and I know of no conspiracy theorist who
has ever alleged that Ferrie, himself, was one of the supposed
shooters in Dealey Plaza).
Ferrie would have very likely been thousands of miles from the scene
of President Kennedy's murder by the time the first shot was even
fired in Dealey Plaza if he had been involved in any kind of a plot to
assassinate Kennedy. And, being a pilot himself, he would probably
also have arranged for his "getaway" to be accomplished at an altitude
of several thousand feet.
Another point that I think is worth mentioning when talking about Dave
Ferrie is this:
On February 18, 1967, four days before he died, Ferrie was interviewed
in his apartment by Andrew Sciambra and Lou Ivon of the New Orleans
District Attorney's office. At one point during the interview,
Sciambra asked Ferrie, "Dave, who shot the President?" Ferrie's answer
was: "Well, that's an interesting question and I've got my own
thoughts about it."
Quoting directly from Vincent Bugliosi's book, "Reclaiming History":
"Ferrie then proceeded to sit up and draw a sketch of Dealey
Plaza and the Texas School Book Depository Building and [per the
memorandum of the interview supplied to Jim Garrison by Sciambra and
Ivon] "went into a long spiel about the trajectory of bullets in
relation to the height and distance." He then gave a "lecture on
anatomy and pathology [and] named every bone in the human body and
every hard and soft muscle area" and concluded that one bullet could
not have caused all the damage the Warren Commission claimed it did."
-- "Reclaiming History"; Page 1400
Now, I think a logical question to ask after reading the above
paragraph is: Why would Ferrie, if he was guilty of being part of a
conspiracy, have wanted to say ANYTHING at all of a derogatory nature
about the Warren Commission's investigation (which was, after all, an
investigation that ended with the determination that Oswald had acted
alone in killing JFK)?
When Ferrie told Sciambra and Ivon that, in essence, he didn't think
the Single-Bullet Theory was true, that was pretty much the same thing
as Ferrie saying a conspiracy did, in fact, exist in the murder of
John Kennedy.
And why would ONE OF THE CONSPIRATORS WHO HAD KENNEDY KILLED want to
say anything at all (to Jim Garrison's investigators, no less!) of a
negative or critical nature concerning the Warren Commission's "lone
assassin" conclusion?
In my opinion, that would have been a crazy and illogical thing for
Ferrie to do IF Ferrie had really played a role in some kind of a plot
to murder President Kennedy.
But, since it's fairly obvious that there isn't a scrap of evidence to
link David Ferrie to any JFK conspiracy plot, then Ferrie's anti-SBT
comments that he made to Sciambra and Ivon in February 1967 do not
really fall into the "crazy" or "illogical" categories at all. But
they certainly would belong in those two categories if Ferrie had been
guilty of conspiracy to murder John F. Kennedy.
David Von Pein
September 17, 2009
====================================================
ADDENDUM:
Author Vincent Bugliosi, in his 2007 book "RECLAIMING HISTORY",
devotes 90 pages in the main text of the book (and an additional 129
pages of endnotes) to the subjects of Jim Garrison's New Orleans
investigation into JFK's assassination and Oliver Stone's 1991 movie,
"JFK".
During the course of those 219 pages, of course, the name David Ferrie
surfaces quite a number of times. The quotes shown below are some of
my favorites from Mr. Bugliosi's book relating to the topic of David
W. Ferrie:
"Former assistant Warren Commission counsel Wesley Liebeler, who
helped conduct the New Orleans phase of the investigation into
Kennedy's death, told the New York Times on the day of Ferrie's death
in 1967 that Edward Voebel, a high school classmate of Oswald's, told
local and federal investigators on the day of the assassination back
in 1963 that he thought Oswald had served briefly in a New Orleans
Civil Air Patrol unit commanded by Ferrie, and three days later they
received reports that Ferrie had made a trip to Texas on the day of
the assassination.
"[Quoting Liebeler:] "We checked all of this out, and it just
did not lead anywhere. .... The FBI did a very substantial piece of
work on Ferrie. It was so clear that he was not involved that we
didn't mention it in the [Warren] Report. Garrison has a
responsibility to indicate just why he thinks Ferrie might have been
involved, and so far as I can determine he has given no reason." [End
Liebeler quote.]
"But Garrison did not do this because he could not do this. All
he could say to the media in a formal statement he issued to the press
later on the day of Ferrie's death [February 22, 1967] was that
"evidence developed by our office had long since confirmed that he was
involved in events culminating in the assassination of President
Kennedy."
"But what could that evidence have been, particularly
since...Perry Russo had not yet surfaced with his totally discredited
story about Ferrie conspiring with Shaw and Oswald?" -- Vincent
Bugliosi; Pages 1401-1402 of "Reclaiming History: The Assassination Of
President John F. Kennedy" (©2007)
=================================
"In fairness to Oliver Stone, just as the New Orleans coroner's
medical conclusion that Ferrie died from a ruptured blood vessel in
the brain virtually forecloses his having been murdered, if, indeed,
the two notes found in his room were suicide notes, they would
likewise virtually foreclose his having died, as the coroner said,
from a ruptured aneurysm in the brain.
"Whether the notes were, in fact, suicide notes is not
completely clear, though the "To leave this life" one obviously goes
in that direction. Of course, Ferrie was in very ill health at the
time of his death, and he may very well have written the subject notes
at some earlier time in possible contemplation of impending death.
"In any event, there is absolutely no evidence that David Ferrie
was murdered. But in Oliver Stone's fine hands, there is no question
that he was. Stone shows Ferrie being murdered (which, as we've seen,
even Stone's hero, Garrison, didn't believe), obviously to silence him
before he elaborated on his incriminating statements to Garrison,
statements we know he never made." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 1402 of
"Reclaiming History"
=================================
"No credible evidence has ever emerged that Lee Harvey Oswald or
David Ferrie was associated in any way with the CIA or any other U.S.
intelligence agency. And the only connection Clay Shaw had with the
CIA was not as an agent or operative, but as one of well over 100,000
prominent Americans who traveled regularly in foreign countries (as
Shaw did as the managing director of the New Orleans International
Trade Mart) and who, upon their return to the states, furnished
information about these countries to the Domestic Contact Service
(DCS) of the CIA, a nonclandestine operation. As the HSCA said, “Such
acts of cooperation should not be confused with an actual Agency [CIA]
relationship” (HSCA Report, p.218)." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Pages
808-809 of "Reclaiming History" (Endnotes)
=================================
"The Garrison devotees have apparently never been troubled by
the question of why Shaw and Ferrie would select Oswald, of all
people, as their hit man...or patsy when they had no way of knowing
that the president would even come back to New Orleans, where Oswald
lived at the time.
"Or were they planning to finance Oswald as he traveled, Carcano
in his violin case, all around the country stalking Kennedy for a good
opportunity to kill him or be the patsy for someone else who would? If
the latter, aren’t they troubled by the fact that we know, from
Oswald’s known whereabouts, that he never did travel around the
country?" -- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 847 of "Reclaiming
History" (Endnotes)
=================================
"For all intents and purposes, Garrison’s entire case had...been
built around [Perry] Russo, specifically Russo’s testimony at the
[Clay Shaw] trial that on one occasion at a party in Ferrie’s home in
September of 1963, he heard Ferrie, Shaw, and Oswald conspire to
murder Kennedy.
"Not only was Russo himself, as we have seen, devoid of all
credibility, but also Garrison, during the trial, was unable to come
up with one single witness to corroborate Russo’s fable.
"Indeed...Garrison learned BEFORE the trial that one witness who
Russo said was at Ferrie’s house on the day in question, Lefty
Peterson, said that Shaw and Oswald were not at the party, and Sandra
Moffett, Russo’s one-time girlfriend, who he said accompanied him to
the party at Ferrie’s home, said that was impossible because she never
met Ferrie until 1965.
"The reader should know by now how conspiracy authors handle
inconvenient witnesses like Peterson and Moffett. It’s really very
simple...they simply don’t mention Peterson and Moffett.
"If we are to believe the conspiracy theorists who still cling
to Russo’s fable, apparently Russo needed truth serum and hypnosis to
recall hearing three people plot to murder President Kennedy. Without
truth serum and hypnosis, the twenty-five-year-old insurance salesman
had so many other things going on in his life that being witness to a
plot to murder the president of the United States just wasn’t
important enough to remember." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Pages 850-851 of
"Reclaiming History" (Endnotes)
=================================
www.ReclaimingHistory.blogspot.com
www.Vincent-Bugliosi.blogspot.com
www.Garrison-Carson.blogspot.com
=================================
lazu...@webtv.net
The fact that he knew Oswald, and the fact that Ruby knew Oswald,( way
way too many witnesses from all aspects for this not to be true) and the
fact that Shaw lied about his employer and his relationship with Oswald
and Ferrie, and Banister ties together the mob,white supremacists, Cuban
Exiles and Intelligence...all out of 544 Camp Street Lou... about as
subtle as a cockroach crawlin' across a white rug.
tomnln
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:f1b99643-a381-435b...@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
www.MaryFerrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=287
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/rolland.htm
====================================================
ADDENDUM:
President John F. Kennedy" (�2007)
=================================
=================================
(DCS) of the CIA, a nonclandestine operation. As the HSCA said, �Such
acts of cooperation should not be confused with an actual Agency [CIA]
relationship� (HSCA Report, p.218)." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Pages
808-809 of "Reclaiming History" (Endnotes)
=================================
"The Garrison devotees have apparently never been troubled by
the question of why Shaw and Ferrie would select Oswald, of all
people, as their hit man...or patsy when they had no way of knowing
that the president would even come back to New Orleans, where Oswald
lived at the time.
"Or were they planning to finance Oswald as he traveled, Carcano
in his violin case, all around the country stalking Kennedy for a good
opportunity to kill him or be the patsy for someone else who would? If
the latter, aren�t they troubled by the fact that we know, from
Oswald�s known whereabouts, that he never did travel around the
country?" -- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 847 of "Reclaiming
History" (Endnotes)
=================================
"For all intents and purposes, Garrison�s entire case had...been
built around [Perry] Russo, specifically Russo�s testimony at the
[Clay Shaw] trial that on one occasion at a party in Ferrie�s home in
September of 1963, he heard Ferrie, Shaw, and Oswald conspire to
murder Kennedy.
"Not only was Russo himself, as we have seen, devoid of all
credibility, but also Garrison, during the trial, was unable to come
up with one single witness to corroborate Russo�s fable.
"Indeed...Garrison learned BEFORE the trial that one witness who
Russo said was at Ferrie�s house on the day in question, Lefty
Peterson, said that Shaw and Oswald were not at the party, and Sandra
Moffett, Russo�s one-time girlfriend, who he said accompanied him to
the party at Ferrie�s home, said that was impossible because she never
met Ferrie until 1965.
"The reader should know by now how conspiracy authors handle
inconvenient witnesses like Peterson and Moffett. It�s really very
simple...they simply don�t mention Peterson and Moffett.
"If we are to believe the conspiracy theorists who still cling
to Russo�s fable, apparently Russo needed truth serum and hypnosis to
recall hearing three people plot to murder President Kennedy. Without
truth serum and hypnosis, the twenty-five-year-old insurance salesman
had so many other things going on in his life that being witness to a
plot to murder the president of the United States just wasn�t
Robert Harris
David, you need to read Waldron's book, "Legacy of Secrecy". He has
documents from the FBI stating that Marcello not only confessed to
setting up the assassination, but that he said Ferrie helped him set it
up, and introduced him to Oswald.
But if you believe Ferrie, then you must believe that it was a
coincidence that he and Oswald were in CAP together and you must believe
that it was a coincidence that Oswald chose the address of one building
out of thousands, where Ferrie worked, to put on his flyers.
And you must believe it was a coincidence that the HSCA concluded that
Ferrie called the apartments where people lived who met with Jack Ruby
on the eve of the assassination.
And that it was a coincidence that Ferrie worked out of the same floor
of the same building where Jim Braden worked - another guy who was with
Ruby at that Cabana hotel on 11/21/63, and whom I would stake everything
I own, on him being one of the shooters.
And you must explain why several people, including Banister's
secretary/mistress recalled Oswald being in their office.
And when Ferrie was told that Oswald had his library card, he didn't
just laugh it off. He raced out to Oswald's neighborhood and grilled the
neighbors and his landlady about it.
Why did he do that unless he believed Oswald could have had it David?
Ferrie took no active part in the assassination. He made a few phone
calls to recruit people and connected Oswald with Marcello -
undoubtedly, because he hoped that the attack could be blamed on Castro,
something Marcello probably didn't care one way or the other about.
As for his ice skating tour, I have no idea. But this guy worked for
somebody who was responsible for numerous murders and countless other
violent crimes. Ferrie was also a convicted pedophile.
I would trust his word on something like that about as much as any other
criminal.
Ferrie hated Kennedy almost as much as Marcello did, though for
different reasons. He was forced from the podium when he spoke before a
veterans group, for screaming out that Kennedy should be killed for
failing to support the Bay of Pigs invasion.
Robert Harris
In article
<f1b99643-a381-435b...@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
David Von Pein
>>> "Ferrie took no active part in the assassination. He made a few phone calls to recruit people and connected Oswald with Marcello..." <<<
Dave Ferrie would have been thousands of miles from Dallas (in a
different country) BEFORE 12:30 ever arrived on 11/22/63 if he had
been involved (in ANY way) in a conspiracy plot to murder John F.
Kennedy.
Don't you agree, Robert Harris, that the above statement I just made
makes a good deal of sense (vs. Ferrie travelling TO Texas to go ice
skating six hours after the assassination)?
As for Lee Oswald and "544 Camp St." -- the 544 Camp building was only
one block away from a place where Oswald worked in the summer of 1963--
the Reily Coffee Company.
Plus: There's not a speck of evidence to show that Oswald ever rented
an office at 544 Camp either. He merely stamped the address on one of
his FPCC handbills.
The "Ferrie-Marcello" angle was a pure coincidence...yes. Ferrie was
working with Attorney Wray Gill on a legal case involving Marcello.
Nothing more than that.
Some CTers, however, apparently want to think that Ferrie and Marcello
"plotted" JFK's murder together. But I'd like to see Jim DiEugenio (or
any other Garrison supporter or any other conspiracy theorist, period)
come within 100 miles of PROVING that Ferrie and Marcello (either one)
had a single thing to do with JFK's assassination.
Naturally, since Oswald killed Kennedy by himself, nobody on Earth can
possibly prove such a thing regarding David Ferrie and Carlos
Marcello. All the CTers have is their collective imaginations.
==================================================
DAVID FERRIE AND HIS 11/25/63 INTERVIEW WITH THE FBI:
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/1a102b6ef1929ad3
==================================================
Robert Harris
<102a3b50-bfe0-4bb5...@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "Ferrie took no active part in the assassination. He made a few phone
> >>> calls to recruit people and connected Oswald with Marcello..." <<<
>
>
>
> Dave Ferrie would have been thousands of miles from Dallas (in a
> different country) BEFORE 12:30 ever arrived on 11/22/63 if he had
> been involved (in ANY way) in a conspiracy plot to murder John F.
> Kennedy.
>
> Don't you agree, Robert Harris, that the above statement I just made
> makes a good deal of sense (vs. Ferrie travelling TO Texas to go ice
> skating six hours after the assassination)?
David, I am at a loss as to how to deal with what has to be the lamest
argument I have heard in the last ten years. And David, I have heard
some pretty lame arguments during that time.
Don't be gullible David. When you deal with thugs like this, you believe
about 1% of what they tell you, if that.
Look up Ferrie on Wikipedia David. You will seen that he lied to the FBI
when he said he was scouting out rinks.
"(In fact, Ferrie and two friends drove 350 miles (560 km) to the
Winterland Skating Rink in Houston, about 240 miles (390 km) from
Dallas, that evening.) Ferrie said that '...he had been considering for
some time the feasibility and possibility of opening an ice skating rink
in New Orleans" and wanted to gather information on the ice rink
business.'
He stated that he introduced himself to [rink manager] Chuck Rolland and
spoke with him at length concerning the cost of installation and
operation of the rink."[22] However, Rolland said that he never spoke to
Ferrie about running an ice rink. Rolland said that Ferrie had spent his
time at the rink's pay phone, making and receiving calls.)"
If we must speculate, then I think it makes infinitely more sense, that
Ferrie left town after learning that Oswald was still alive, Friday
evening. His greatest fear was that Oswald would name him.
He was constantly on the phone, because he was monitoring what was going
on in Dallas. If he had been told that Oswald named him, he would have
continued going west, hoping to make Mexico.
But after Oswald was killed, he turned around and went back to New
Orleans.
>
> As for Lee Oswald and "544 Camp St." -- the 544 Camp building was only
> one block away from a place where Oswald worked in the summer of 1963--
> the Reily Coffee Company.
Yes, LOTS of buildings were within a one block radius of his employer.
But you still haven't explained why he used that address?
>
> Plus: There's not a speck of evidence to show that Oswald ever rented
> an office at 544 Camp either.
Yes, and he never did.
But he was almost certainly told that he would get an office there,
which is why he told VT Lee that he was going to move into one soon.
That building was mostly vacant and there were many unrented offices
there going for cheap.
What likely happened was, that Banister vetoed the idea.
> He merely stamped the address on one of
> his FPCC handbills.
No, he stamped them on ALL the flyers he had at that time.
Funny isn't it, that "communist" Oswald would be directing aspiring
young lefties to a building where they would run into the most fanatical
right wing nutcases around:-)
>
> The "Ferrie-Marcello" angle was a pure coincidence...yes. Ferrie was
> working with Attorney Wray Gill on a legal case involving Marcello.
> Nothing more than that.
Nonsense.
Ferrie also flew to Guatemala to rescue Marcello after he was dumped
there by Bobby Kennedy's people.
And Marcello confirmed that Ferrie helped him setup the assassination,
per documented FBI records that you can read about in Waldron's new book.
>
> Some CTers, however, apparently want to think that Ferrie and Marcello
> "plotted" JFK's murder together. But I'd like to see Jim DiEugenio (or
> any other Garrison supporter or any other conspiracy theorist, period)
> come within 100 miles of PROVING that Ferrie and Marcello (either one)
> had a single thing to do with JFK's assassination.
ROFLMAO!!
Marcello admitted it, David.
And this was not a kook who went around trying to impress people. In
fact, I don't think he is known to have ever confessed to ANYTHING prior
to telling his cellmate (an FBI informant) that he set the crime up.
David, this guy said he was going to have JFK killed, before the
assassination. He ran the mob for the entire Southeast. All he had to do
was pickup the phone and give the order. Not only could he find willing
and eager shooters, but he could rest assured that they would NEVER rat
on him if they were caught - except Oswald of course.
Bobby Kennedy humiliated him like he had never been humiliated in his
life. Remember his "kill the dog and the tail stops wagging" statement?
Or his Sicilian version of "take this stone from my shoe".
These people took that kind of thing seriously David. It would have been
an incredible miracle if he HADN'T had JFK killed.
Robert Harris
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/d1ba90d712dde231
Let's bask in the Pot & Kettle nature of Robert Harris' last post
(regarding "thugs"):
"When you deal with thugs like this, you believe about 1% of
what they tell you, if that." -- Bob Harris; 9/19/09
And then, just seconds later, Bob Harris tells us this:
"Marcello admitted it [plotting JFK's murder], David." -- Bob
Harris; 9/19/09
LOL.
So, it appears that early in the post, Robert Harris doesn't think
it's wise at all to believe much of anything that "thugs" like David
Ferrie have to say. But a few seconds later we find Mr. Harris ready
and eager to believe another "thug" (i.e., a mobster) named Carlos
Marcello when Marcello apparently confessed to being part of a plot to
assassinate JFK.
I guess Marcello doesn't qualify as a "thug", is that it Robert?
Since Marcello was well ABOVE Ferrie's lowly station and class, Harris
wants to BELIEVE Marcello was telling the gospel truth, but he'll
throw Ferrie under the bus.
Nice logic, Bob. The way you get to pick and choose which scumbag/
crook/plotter/mobster/"thug" should be believed and which one should
be fed to the wolves is quite illuminating. (Not to mention
hilarious.)
Also:
Evidently Bob Harris doesn't think it was unusual at all for David
Ferrie (whom Mr. Harris thinks was involved in a conspiracy to murder
the President) to travel for many hours by automobile with two of his
friends from New Orleans to Houston, Texas, just so Ferrie can use the
telephone at some ICE-SKATING RINK in Houston (presumably so that
Ferrie could make contact with other "conspirators" in Dallas).
Apparently the only telephone available to Ferrie was at Chuck
Rolland's ice-skating rink in Houston.
Time for another one of these ---> LOL!
To repeat the obvious --- If David Ferrie (OR CARLOS MARCELLO) had
been part of a plot to kill President Kennedy, both of those "thugs"
would have been thousands of miles from Texas (and out of the country)
by the time the first shot was even fired in Dallas' Dealey Plaza on
11/22/63.
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/aa46bb25b340b13b
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/d3d3b320a769b2dd
>>> "Ferrie was not a mastermind. Only the mastermind need not be on the scene. Everyone else involved must be on the scene." <<<
LOL. Tony Marsh thinks that JFK was shot in NEW ORLEANS evidently.
Brilliant, Tony.
I guess "on the scene" to Marsh means hundreds of miles away in a
different state (like Ferrie was).*
* = Although, as I've mentioned before, Ferrie (even though he was
hundreds of miles from Dallas on 11/22/63) wouldn't have been even
that close to the scene of the crime on November 22nd, IMO, IF he had
really been involved in a plot to murder Kennedy that day. He would
have flown out of the United States (probably days earlier).
>>> "[Ferrie need not flee the country...] If his job was to fly the team out of Texas." <<<
So, let me try to get a handle on this idiocy you are suggesting here:
David Ferrie is supposedly the getaway pilot for the assassination
"team" (a team which was in DALLAS). So, what does Ferrie do? He
decides he'll stay in NEW ORLEANS until 6:30 PM on the day of the "big
hit". (Brilliant!)
Is that about the size of it, Tony??
Ferrie is desperately needed in DALLAS at 12:31 PM on 11/22/63, so he
stays in New Orleans until about 6:30 PM, and only then does he start
to drive to Texas (and then, he doesn't drive to DALLAS--he drives to
HOUSTON, 200 miles from Dallas).
Brilliant!
Maybe Ferrie got lost, huh? He didn't have the right road map perhaps?
Conspiracy-seeking people are always a howl. And Tony Marsh is no
exception.
Robert Harris
<e06c3adf-d0c2-4007...@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/d1ba90d712dde231
>
>
> Let's bask in the Pot & Kettle nature of Robert Harris' last post
> (regarding "thugs"):
>
>
>
> "When you deal with thugs like this, you believe about 1% of
> what they tell you, if that." -- Bob Harris; 9/19/09
>
>
> And then, just seconds later, Bob Harris tells us this:
>
>
>
> "Marcello admitted it [plotting JFK's murder], David." -- Bob
> Harris; 9/19/09
Poor David - lamer and lamer and lamer.
Ferrie was talking to the FBI. Marcello believed he was talking to a
fellow mafioso.
Is it really possible that you don't understand the difference??
And David, why do you continue to evade the evidence and facts? Why do
you delete the questions that you can't handle.
You will only get to the truth, by tackling the toughest arguments - not
by running from them.
Let's put the data back in that you deleted and give you another chance
to make an honest reply.
(reposted)
David, I am at a loss as to how to deal with what has to be the lamest
argument I have heard in the last ten years. And David, I have heard
some pretty lame arguments during that time.
Don't be gullible David. When you deal with thugs like this, you believe
about 1% of what they tell you, if that.
Look up Ferrie on Wikipedia David. You will seen that he lied to the FBI
Nonsense.
ROFLMAO!!
Marcello admitted it, David.
Robert Harris
>
>
David Von Pein
>>> "Ferrie was talking to the FBI. Marcello believed he was talking to a fellow mafioso." <<<
Too bad you don't have a speck of evidence connecting Marcello (or
Ferrie) to JFK's death.
Poor Bob Harris. He's forced to put his faith in a "thug".
Robert Harris
<c9e292e6-49d7-46ea...@o21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "Ferrie was talking to the FBI. Marcello believed he was talking to a
> >>> fellow mafioso." <<<
>
> Too bad you don't have a speck of evidence connecting Marcello (or
> Ferrie) to JFK's death.
Marcello's recorded statements about working with Ferrie, as well as his
admission that he ordered the assassination, would be admissible
evidence in any court - as would his earlier statements, that he
intended to have Kennedy killed.
Tell me David, would you have the same attitude if you had proof that
Oswald said he was going to shoot JFK, or a confession that he did??
Of course you wouldn't, because you are NOT about learning the truth.
You are only a pitchman who couldn't care less about the reality of what
happened.
How could you possibly be this involved in the case, but care so little
about getting it right?
How could you be so totally closed-minded and unwilling to evaluate
evidence objectively?
Don't get me wrong, David. I realize that most of the folks around here
are just as closed-minded as you are. What I don't understand is, why??
Why would anyone NOT want to know what happened?
Robert Harris
lazu...@webtv.net
total waste of time to debate a lone nutter except maybe live in a
public venue. Lurkers don't want to read insults,I don't know why
regulars would unless they have a argumentative personality, IOW- you
are forced into an combative situation on this board, and everybody that
posts regularly knows how most everyone is going to respond on any
topic...if only the cter's had banded together and put all this effort
into gettng a few allies in the media it would have been a much better
use of time...and I got precious little of it...
David Von Pein
>>> "Marcello's recorded statements about working with Ferrie, as well as his admission that he ordered the assassination, would be admissible evidence in any court - as would his earlier statements, that he intended to have Kennedy killed." <<<
Possibly. But so what? The jury, via the prosecution's ironclad case
that Oswald acted ALONE, would be convinced that Marcello was nothing
more than a blowhard and would easily be able to determine that
Marcello (regardless of what he said either before or after 11/22/63)
played no part whatsoever in the murder of JFK.
You see, a confession is MEANINGLESS without at least a tiny bit of
what they call EVIDENCE to back up the confession. And Marcello's
"confession" is indeed worthless, because there's no solid evidence to
back up his crackpot boasts. Why can't you admit this fact, Bob?
BTW, Bob, how do you feel about Jim Garrison's theory -- i.e., THE CIA
KILLED KENNEDY?
Do you think Carlos Marcello was with the CIA too? And was David
Ferrie "CIA" as well?
aeffects
focus shithead....
> Do you think Carlos Marcello was with the CIA too? And was David
> Ferrie "CIA" as well?
focus shithead --
methinks you panic when your back is to the wall moron!
