Provable Lies of the Warren Commission (#7)
Ben Holmes
As normal when I post this series, the trolls whine, but no-one explains why the
WC simply lied. On to the next lie...
**********************************************************************
Important Note for Lurkers - there are many trolls on this forum who's only
purpose is to obstruct debate, deny the evidence, and attempt to change message
threads from discussing the evidence, to personal insults and attacks.
These trolls include (but are not limited to):
Baldoni
Balds...@gmail.com
Bigdog
Bill
Brokedad
Bud
Burlyguard
Cdddraftsman
Chuck Schuyler
David Von Pein
Grizzlie Antagonist
Justme1952
JGL
Marty Baughman
Miss Rita
Muc...@Gmail.com
Sam Brown
Steve sahi...@yahoo.com
Tara Lachat
Tims...@Gmail.com
Todd W. Vaughan
YoHarvey
The names change from time to time as they create new aliases, but they can be
recognized by their refusal to address the evidence, and their frequent use of
ad hominem attacks.
Please beware when seeing their responses, and note that they will simply deny
the facts I mention, demand citations that I've provided before, or simply run
with insults. These trolls are only good material for the killfiles.
**********************************************************************
"... but there is no evidence that an "A. J. Hidell" existed." (WCR 292)
"Because Oswald's use of this pseudonym became known quickly after the
assassination, investigations were conducted with regard to persons using the
name Hidell or names similar to it." (WCR 313)
"Hidell was a favorite alias used by Oswald on a number of occasions. Diligent
search has failed to reveal any person in Dallas or New Orleans by that name."
(WCR 645)
But the actual evidence shows otherwise:
"I, John Rene Heindel, 812 Belleville Street, New Orleans, Louisiana, being
first duly sworn, depose and say: ...While in the Marine Corps, I was often
referred to as "Hidell"--pronounced so as to rhyme with "Rydell" rather than
"Fidel." This was a nickname and not merely an inadvertent mispronounciation. It
is possible that Oswald might have heard me being called by this name; indeed he
may himself have called me "Hidell." However, I have no specific recollection of
his either using or hearing this name." (8H 318)
If a LNT'er wishes to argue that the staff was unaware of this deposition,
they'll need to face this:
Mr. JENNER. Do you remember a marine by the name of John Heindel?
Mr. POWERS. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Sometimes called Hidell? This is Atsugi now.
Mr. POWERS. No. (8H 288)
The WCR once again, simply lied. And although John R. Heindel was known from a
Secret Service investigation conducted in New Orleans from 22Nov - 2Dec; (See
CE3119 pg 12) no other research has been presented... presumably, the FBI,
Secret Service, and WC simply declined to investigate Heindel.
Interestingly enough, the Dallas Police list of property seized on Nov 23rd at
the Paine residence includes the following: "four 3 x 5 cards bearing
respectively names G. Hall; A.J. Hidell; B. Davis; and V.T. Lee" (CE 2003 pg
269)
Gus Hall, Benjamin Davis, and Vincent T. Lee are real people of prominence in
the leftist political movement. If A. J. Hidell is a fake name invented by
Oswald, the subtlety of preparing an index card for Hidell, and putting it in
with known real people was certainly nothing less than brilliant. (to paraphrase
Silvia Meagher)
Anyone care to defend the WCR in it's obvious lie here?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com
mucher1
> As normal when I post this series, the trolls whine, but no-one explains why the
> WC simply lied. On to the next lie...
>
>
> "Because Oswald's use of this pseudonym became known quickly after the
> assassination, investigations were conducted with regard to persons using the
> name Hidell or names similar to it." (WCR 313)
>
> "Hidell was a favorite alias used by Oswald on a number of occasions. Diligent
> search has failed to reveal any person in Dallas or New Orleans by that name."
> (WCR 645)
>
> But the actual evidence shows otherwise:
>
> "I, John Rene Heindel, 812 Belleville Street, New Orleans, Louisiana, being
> first duly sworn, depose and say: ...While in the Marine Corps, I was often
> referred to as "Hidell"--pronounced so as to rhyme with "Rydell" rather than
> "Fidel." This was a nickname and not merely an inadvertent mispronounciation. It
> is possible that Oswald might have heard me being called by this name; indeed he
> may himself have called me "Hidell." However, I have no specific recollection of
> his either using or hearing this name." (8H 318)
How does this show that a person named "Hidell" lived in Dallas or New
Orleans? You don't seem to understand the difference between a
nickname and an actual name.
> If a LNT'er wishes to argue that the staff was unaware of this deposition,
> they'll need to face this:
>
> Mr. JENNER. Do you remember a marine by the name of John Heindel?
> Mr. POWERS. No, sir.
> Mr. JENNER. Sometimes called Hidell? This is Atsugi now.
> Mr. POWERS. No. (8H 288)
>
> The WCR once again, simply lied. And although John R. Heindel was known from a
> Secret Service investigation conducted in New Orleans from 22Nov - 2Dec; (See
> CE3119 pg 12) no other research has been presented... presumably, the FBI,
> Secret Service, and WC simply declined to investigate Heindel.
I see no evidence above to connect Heindel with Oswald beyond Atsugi,
or to suggest that Heindel ever used the alias "A. J. Hidell". If you
needed an alias for clandestine purposes, wouldn't it be rather
foolish to (a) pick one this similar to your real name, and (b)
mention your "nickname" in your WC affidavit?
> Interestingly enough, the Dallas Police list of property seized on Nov 23rd at
> the Paine residence includes the following: "four 3 x 5 cards bearing
> respectively names G. Hall; A.J. Hidell; B. Davis; and V.T. Lee" (CE 2003 pg
> 269)
>
> Gus Hall, Benjamin Davis, and Vincent T. Lee are real people of prominence in
> the leftist political movement. If A. J. Hidell is a fake name invented by
> Oswald, the subtlety of preparing an index card for Hidell, and putting it in
> with known real people was certainly nothing less than brilliant. (to paraphrase
> Silvia Meagher)
Idle hands? l wouldn't necessarily call it brilliant, but it seems to
have fooled the two of you. Who is "Silvia" Meagher, btw?
> Anyone care to defend the WCR in it's obvious lie here?
Have you presented any evidence that a person named "A. J. Hidell"
actually existed?
Gil Jesus
> Who is "Silvia" Meagher, btw?
ROFLMAO....this guy is debating the Warren Commission evidence and
NEVER heard of Sylvia Meagher ?
mucher1
Well, I have her books, but Ben was referring to a Silvia (not Sylvia)
Meagher. Who is she?
timstter
> As normal when I post this series, the trolls whine, but no-one explains why the
> WC simply lied. On to the next lie...
>
> **********************************************************************
> Important Note for Lurkers - there are many trolls on this forum who's only
> purpose is to obstruct debate, deny the evidence, and attempt to change message
> threads from discussing the evidence, to personal insults and attacks.
>
> These trolls include (but are not limited to):
>
> Baldoni
> Bigdog
> Bill
> Brokedad
> Bud
> Burlyguard
> Cdddraftsman
> Chuck Schuyler
> David Von Pein
> Grizzlie Antagonist
> Justme1952
> JGL
> Marty Baughman
> Miss Rita
> Sam Brown
> Steve sahist...@yahoo.com
> Tara Lachat
> Timst...@Gmail.com
What does this prove? They were looking for A. J. Hidell. At best you
could stretch it to J. R. Hidell, but Hidell is a nickname, not
Heindel's real name.
As for your other nonsense, Hall, Davis and Lee were all people
involved with the formation, or had been given honorary membership, of
his New Orleans FPCC chapter. Hidell was the fictitious name he chose
for the FPCC chapter President and he got Marina to sign his own
membership card in that name.
Surely you know this after forty odd years, Benny?
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
timstter
LOL! Looks like Da Verm is the fool again! :-)
Ben Holmes
Gil Jesus says...
What a shame that the very best the trolls can do is point out a misspelled
name!
Lurkers interested in the JFK conspiracy can pick up Sylvia Meagher's classic
book on the topic, "Accessories After the Fact". It's well worth it.
timstter
> In article <8654d5b8-2136-4a78-b3bd-cfd9d36ac...@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
Hi Ben,
Say, do you think Gil Jesus is, quite literally, Bald Vermin?
If I don't hear back from you I'll take that as a yes, OK?
Sam Brown
"timstter" <tims...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bb8d023a-cbbf-4749...@v35g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
Hi Ben,
:-)
Regards,
LOL
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/a42b603d37481fcd
Ben "I Love Chaff" Holmes is at it again, I see.
This whole thread is totally insignificant and meaningless, because it
doesn't really matter WHERE Lee Oswald got the idea for using "Hidell"
as one of his aliases....the fact remains we KNOW that he DID use that
name (Alek James Hidell) as an alias on various documents, including a
forged Selective Service card that not only has the name "Hidell" on
it, but has Lee Oswald's OWN PICTURE on it as well (CE795, below)!
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0354a.htm
So anyone who claims (as some conspiracy nuts do still claim) that
Oswald was telling the truth to the authorities after his arrest when
he said he had never heard the name "Hidell" before, is just a silly
person. Period.
As for Holmes' contention that the Warren Commission "lied" about the
details of any person with the REAL name of "A.J. Hidell" or "Hidell",
Holmes (as usual) is totally nuts. Let's have another look:
"There is no evidence that an "A. J. Hidell" existed." (WR; Page
292)
WR; Pg. 292:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0158b.htm
Now, how is the above statement a lie? Answer--it isn't. Because no
such person named "A.J. Hidell" (or "Alek James Hidell") is known to
have existed as of the printing of the Warren Commission's Final
Report in late 1964.
Next.....
"During the summer of 1963, Oswald rented a post office box in
New Orleans, listing the name "Hidell" in addition to his own name and
that of his wife. Hidell was a favorite alias used by Oswald on a
number of occasions. Diligent search has failed to reveal any person
in Dallas or New Orleans by that name. It was merely a creation for
his [Lee Harvey Oswald's] own purposes." (WR; Pages 644-645)
WR; Pages 644 and 645:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0334b.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0335a.htm
Now, yes, it's true that an acquaintance of Oswald's in the Marine
Corps named John Rene Heindel said the following in a May 19, 1964,
affidavit:
"While in the Marine Corps, I was often referred to as "Hidell"--
pronounced so as to rhyme with "Rydell" rather than "Fidel." This was
a nickname and not merely an inadvertent mispronounciation. It is
possible that Oswald might have heard me being called by this name;
indeed he may himself have called me "Hidell." However, I have no
specific recollection of his either using or hearing this name."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/heindel.htm
But the fact that Heindel also used the nickname "Hidell" doesn't turn
the following two statements made by the Warren Commission into
"lies" (as Ben Holmes wants to turn them into):
"There is no evidence that an "A. J. Hidell" existed."
"Diligent search has failed to reveal any person in Dallas or
New Orleans by that name [Hidell]. It was merely a creation for his
[Oswald's] own purposes."
It seems to me as though the Warren Commission was probably searching
for a person whose REAL NAME was "Hidell" (and more specifically "A.J.
Hidell" or "Alek James Hidell"), and they were probably not searching
for a person (like Heindel) who had "Hidell" as a nickname. And
Heindel's real name was not Hidell.
Therefore, it's pretty obvious that Kook Holmes is once again scraping
the bottom of his "chaff" barrel and distorting and/or misrepresenting
the Warren Commission's words when Ben insists that the WC "lied" when
it came to being able to find a person in New Orleans or Dallas whose
REAL NAME was "Hidell" (and more specifically "A.J. Hidell").
But the Warren Commission didn't lie, because there was no person in
either of those two cities who had the REAL NAME of A.J. Hidell or
Hidell.
But let's just assume that Ben Holmes is right (or at least partially
right) about this chaff-like item of his that occupies space on his
non-stop list of alleged "Warren Commission Lies". My next question
would be -- So what?
John Heindel's WC affidavit is right there in Volume #8 of the Warren
Commission volumes for everybody to see and read:
8 H 318:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh8/html/WC_Vol8_0163b.htm
The Commission, therefore, wasn't HIDING Heindel's admission that he
had a nickname that was exactly the same name as Lee Oswald's known
alias ("Hidell"). It's right there in black-and-white on page 318 of
Volume 8.
Does Ben Holmes think that this "Heindel"/"Hidell" coincidence really
MEANS something in the long run? Is this supposed to "solve" the case
in some way?
Does Ben think that Heindel and Oswald were part of an assassination
"team" or something?
In short, WHERE exactly does the "Hidell" thing take Benjamin Holmes
(and conspiracy theorists like him)?
Ben wants to think the Warren Commission "lied" when they claimed that
nobody else in New Orleans or Dallas had the name (or used the name)
Hidell.
But does the alleged "lie" somehow make all the evidence of Lee
Oswald's guilt in the JFK and Tippit murders suddenly melt and/or
disappear?
To sum things up.....
In my personal opinion, Ben Holmes does a good impersonation of James
DiEugenio. Because both of those men are good at dredging up totally
meaningless loose ends (aka: chaff) regarding unimportant matters
concerning the assassination of John F. Kennedy. But neither man is
very good at answering a very crucial question connected with their
chaff-dredging:
WHERE DOES THIS CHAFF GO?
================================
For more fun "Holmes Bashing", go here:
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/3ea5799074a658d0
================================
mucher1
> In article <8654d5b8-2136-4a78-b3bd-cfd9d36ac...@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
> Gil Jesus says...
>
> >On Jun 13, 1:47=EF=BF=BDpm, mucher1 <much...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Who is "Silvia" Meagher, btw?
>
> >ROFLMAO....this guy is debating the Warren Commission evidence and
> >NEVER heard of Sylvia Meagher ?
>
> >http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmeagher.htm
>
> What a shame that the very best the trolls can do is point out a misspelled
> name!
Read the posts, moron.
timstter
BUMP! Yoo Hoo! Yellow Pants! You didn't seem to like the fact that
your nonsense was answered!