FIREARMS ID

[Vincent T Bugliosi]

Firearms identification experts from the Warren Commission and the HSCA

concluded that the two large bullet fragments that were found in the front seat

of the presidential limousine were parts of a bullet fired from Oswald's Carcano

rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons. The Connally stretcher bullet

was also determined to be fired from Oswald's Carcano to the exclusion of all

other weapons.

[Walt]

On Monday, February 3, 2014 9:16:20 AM UTC-6, Vincent T Bugliosi wrote:


Firearms identification experts from the Warren Commission and the HSCA
concluded that the two large bullet fragments that were found in the front seat
of the presidential limousine were parts of a bullet fired from Oswald's Carcano rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons.

Rubbish!..... There's NO WAY a couple of small bullet fragments from the lead CORE CORE CORE of a bullet can be traced to a particular gun. The CORE of the bullet does not come into contact with the rifling in the barrel of a gun. The part of the bullet that contacts the rifling is the JACKET.

Whatta NUMBSKULL! I'd be embarrassed if I posted something as STUPID as this.

[Vincent T Bugliosi]

Five bullet fragments were found in the President's limousine. The cartridge cases, the nearly whole bullet and the bullet fragments were all subjected to firearms identification analysis by qualified experts. It was the unanimous opinion of the experts that the nearly whole bullet, the two largest. bullet fragments. and the three cartridge cases were definitely fired in the rifle found on the sixth floor of the Depository Building to the exclusion of all other weapons.

[David Von Pein]

WALT CAKEBREAD SAID:

Rubbish! There's NO WAY a couple of small bullet fragments from the lead CORE CORE CORE of a bullet can be traced to a particular gun. The CORE of the bullet does not come into contact with the rifling in the barrel of a gun. The part of the bullet that contacts the rifling is the JACKET. .... I'd be embarrassed if I posted something as STUPID as this.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

For a person who loves to spout on and on about the evidence in the JFK case, Walter Cakebread sometimes displays an incredible (and laughable) lack of knowledge about some of the most basic things concerning the case.

Walt seems to think that the two bullet fragments recovered from the front seat area of President Kennedy's limousine (CE567 and CE569) contained ONLY lead, while containing NONE of the copper jacket of the bullet at all.

But such a statement by Walt is just blatant ignorance, because as can easily be seen in photographs of the two front-seat fragments [see the link below], ample copper is plainly visible. And, in fact, CE569 contains nothing BUT a portion of the copper jacket of the bullet that was fired by Lee Harvey Oswald at Zapruder frame #313 (which was the head shot which killed JFK).

There is none of the lead core to be found in CE569 at all, which, of course, is the reason why CE569 was not subjected to Neutron Activation Analysis by Dr. Vincent P. Guinn in the 1970s for the HSCA.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/09/ce567-and-ce569.html

So, Walt (as always) ends up looking like a donkey's rear-end here. But by this time, we're all accustomed to Walt shooting blanks on a daily basis, such as his "BRENNAN DESCRIBED..." comedy routine, which can now be found in my "Assorted Assassination Arguments" series at my JFK Archives site (in Part 575).

And it's hard to beat Part 575 for a good healthy belly laugh at the (deserved) expense of a conspiracy-happy idiot by the name of Walter Cakebread. Join me in re-living the fun, won't you?....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/01/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-575.html

[Vincent T Bugliosi]

On Monday, February 3, 2014 11:08:01 AM UTC-5, David Von Pein wrote:
> For a person who loves to spout on and on about the evidence in the JFK case, Walt Cakebread sometimes displays an incredible (and laughable) lack of knowledge about some of the most basic things concerning the case. And his post above in this thread is one such laughable moment (among many) for Cakebread.

>
>
>
> Walt seems to think that the two bullet fragments recovered from the front seat area of President Kennedy's limousine (CE567 and CE569) contained ONLY lead, while containing NONE of the copper jacket of the bullet at all.
>
>
>

> But such a statement by Walt is blatant ignorance, because as can easily be seen in photographs of the two front-seat fragments [see the link below], ample copper is plainly visible. And, in fact, CE569 contains nothing BUT a portion of the copper jacket of the bullet that was fired by Lee Harvey Oswald at Zapruder frame #313 (which was the head shot which killed JFK). There is none of the lead core to be found in CE569 at all, which, of course, is the reason why CE569 was not subjected to Neutron Activation Analysis by Dr. Vincent P. Guinn in the 1970s for the HSCA.

>
>
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/09/ce567-and-ce569.html
>
>
>
> So, Walt (as always) ends up looking like a donkey's rear-end here. But by this time, we're all accustomed to Walt shooting blanks on a daily basis, such as his "BRENNAN DESCRIBED..." comedy routine, which can now be found in my "Assorted Assassination Arguments" series at my JFK Archives site (in Part 575).
>
>
>
> And it's hard to beat Part 575 for a good healthy belly laugh at the (deserved) expense of a conspiracy-happy idiot by the name of Walter Cakebread. Join me in re-living the fun, won't you?....
>
>
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/01/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-575.html

I believe it was Walt who wrote the screenplay for Oliver Stone's JFK.

[Walt]

On Monday, February 3, 2014 10:13:45 AM UTC-6, David Von Pein wrote:
> WALT CAKEBREAD SAID:
>
>
>
> Rubbish! There's NO WAY a couple of small bullet fragments from the lead CORE CORE CORE of a bullet can be traced to a particular gun. The CORE of the bullet does not come into contact with the rifling in the barrel of a gun. The part of the bullet that contacts the rifling is the JACKET. .... I'd be embarrassed if I posted something as STUPID as this.
>
>
>
>
>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
>
>
> For a person who loves to spout on and on about the evidence in the JFK case, Walter Cakebread sometimes displays an incredible (and laughable) lack of knowledge about some of the most basic things concerning the case.
>
>
>
> Walt seems to think that the two bullet fragments recovered from the front seat area of President Kennedy's limousine (CE567 and CE569) contained ONLY lead, while containing NONE of the copper jacket of the bullet at all.

Whatta foolish liar you are Von Pea Brain..... Bullets that are recovered from a victim or a crime scene can often be traced to the gun that fired them by microscopic viewing of the recovered bullet. ( If the bullet hasn't struck a hard material like bone or steel or concrete) The rifling in the barrel of a gun will often leave the "finger print" of the rifling on the JACKET of the bullet. The lead CORE is surrounded by the jacket and the core never comes in contact with the rifling.

If a bullet is shattered into small pieces it is IMPOSSIBLE to trace those small fragments ro any particular gun. Anybody who would make the claim that the small fragments found in the Lincoln could be traced to ANY PARTICULAR gun is a damned fool liar!

[David Von Pein]

WALT CAKEBREAD SAID:

Whatta foolish liar you are, Von Pea Brain. Bullets that are recovered from a victim or a crime scene can often be traced to the gun that fired them by microscopic viewing of the recovered bullet. (If the bullet hasn't struck a hard material like bone or steel or concrete.)

The rifling in the barrel of a gun will often leave the "finger print" of the rifling on the JACKET of the bullet. The lead CORE is surrounded by the jacket and the core never comes in contact with the rifling.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Typical of an outer-fringe conspiracy theorist, after having just been proved wrong about his previous "lead core" argument (i.e., after I proved that CE567/569 didn't contain JUST the lead core of the bullet material), Walt continues to act as if the two front-seat fragments still consisted of nothing but the lead core. Incredible.

WALT CAKEBREAD SAID:

If a bullet is shattered into small pieces it is IMPOSSIBLE to trace those small fragments ro any particular gun. Anybody who would make the claim that the small fragments found in the Lincoln could be traced to ANY PARTICULAR gun is a damned fool liar!

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Many, many firearms identification experts for both the Warren Commission and the House Select Committee on Assassinations came to the conclusion that the two front-seat bullet fragments could BOTH be traced conclusively to Lee Harvey Oswald's Carcano Rifle #C2766.

But, I guess we should all just toss in the trash all of the following official testimony provided by experts in the field of firearms identification, because Walt Cakebread apparently knows a lot more about these things than ANY of these firearms experts. Right, Walter? These guys were all liars, eh? .....

JOHN J. McCLOY - And you would say the same thing of Commission Exhibit 399, the bullet 399 was fired from that rifle?

ROBERT A. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

Mr. McCLOY - And the fragment 567---

Mr. FRAZIER - 567, the one we have just finished.

Mr. McCLOY - Was likewise a portion of a bullet fired from that rifle?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

Mr. McCLOY - You have no doubt about any of those?

Mr. FRAZIER - None whatsoever.

[...]


MELVIN EISENBERG - Mr. Frazier, did you examine this bullet fragment with a view to determining whether it had been fired from the rifle, Exhibit 139?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG - What was your conclusion?

Mr. FRAZIER - This bullet fragment, Exhibit 569, was fired from this particular rifle, 139.

Mr. EISENBERG - Again to the exclusion of all other rifles?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

=======================

JOSEPH D. NICOL. Yes. It is my opinion that the same weapon that fired Commission's Exhibit 572 also fired the projectiles in Commission's Exhibits 569, 567, and 399.

Mr. EISENBERG. That would be to the exclusion of all other weapons?

Mr. NICOL. Correct.

=======================

I, Charles L. Killion, Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, do hereby state that I have reviewed the testimonies of Robert A. Frazier on March 31 and May 13, 1964, and testimonies of Cortlandt Cunningham on March 11 and April 1, 1964, before the President's Commission on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and I agree with the conclusions stated therein.

I do hereby state that I conducted independent examinations of the items which were the subject of Mr. Cunningham's and Mr. Frazier's testimonies and that on the basis of these independent examinations, I reached the same conclusions reached by Mr. Frazier and Mr. Cunningham.

/s/ Charles L. Killion

=======================

JAMES McDONALD. And you took the fragment, is it labeled CE-567, and microscopically compared it with the test-fired bullet from the FBI that was fired out of 139?

ANDREW M. NEWQUIST. That is correct.

Mr. McDONALD. And what was the result of your examination?

Mr. NEWQUIST. From mine and the panel's comparison, of these two exhibits, it is our opinion, they had been fired from the same firearm.

Mr. McDONALD. In other words, CE-567, which was the bullet fragment found on the front seat of the Presidential limousine, it is you conclusion through your analysis that it was fired from CE-139, which is before us this morning?

Mr. NEWQUIST. That is correct.

Mr. McDONALD. What did you do regarding CE-569?

Mr. NEWQUIST. The same being true for CE-569, it was placed on a microscope and compared with the FBI test bullets fired from the Oswald rifle to observe the similarity or dissimilarity, the result or a photographic representation of the identification is in the upper photograph. CE-569 on the left side of the line of demarcation, the FBI test, CE-572 is on the right side showing the concurrence of the individual characteristics as seen on the comparison microscope.

Mr. McDONALD. And the conclusion is that they were both fired from the same weapon?

Mr. NEWQUIST. That is correct.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr1.htm

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/nicol.htm

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/firearm.htm

[David Von Pein]

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/02/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-608.html

[Walt]

On Monday, February 3, 2014 11:29:17 AM UTC-6, David Von Pein wrote:
These guys were all liars, eh?

Yes as a matter of fact they were liars.... A couple of them worked for one of the KEY conspirators, J.Edgar Hoover.... and the other knew better than to cross Hoover.... Nobody crossed Hoover.... The ultimate "Godfather"

[Vincent T Bugliosi]

Crossed Hoover. There is no credible evidence to show that Hoover was a cross dresser.

[Truecristian Jesus]

What your ponto?

[Truecristian Jesus]

The big kind of world shaking conspiracies that Oliver Stone and other CTers present was never a possibility. But it was certainly possible that Oswald could have been acting with some other people. That was what happened with John Wilkes Booth. Booth was the leader of maybe a half dozen or so disgruntled Southern sympathizers who wanted to strike against the Union leadership (the same night Lincoln was assassinated, a coconspirator of Booth's stabbed, but failed to kill, William Seward. A conspirator who was supposed to shoot Vice President Andrew Johnson got cold feet).

But in the fifty years since that day there's not been a shred of evidence that Oswald acted in concert with anyone else. All the evidence points to him acting alone. And if he was a part of a conspiracy then presumably they'd do something as elementary as provide him with a getaway driver so he didn't have to rely on public transportation to get away.

[Ben Holmes]

In article <e6ef45a4-86b9-484c...@googlegroups.com>, Truecristian
Jesus says...
>
>The big kind of world shaking conspiracies that Oliver Stone and other CTer=
>s present was never a possibility. But it was certainly possible that Oswal=
>d could have been acting with some other people. That was what happened wit=
>h John Wilkes Booth. Booth was the leader of maybe a half dozen or so disgr=
>untled Southern sympathizers who wanted to strike against the Union leaders=
>hip (the same night Lincoln was assassinated, a coconspirator of Booth's st=
>abbed, but failed to kill, William Seward. A conspirator who was supposed t=
>o shoot Vice President Andrew Johnson got cold feet).=20
>
>But in the fifty years since that day there's not been a shred of evidence =

>that Oswald acted in concert with anyone else.

Simply untrue. There's credible medical evidence for a front shot, and plenty of
evidence for a Grassy Knoll shooter.


>All the evidence points to h=
>im acting alone. And if he was a part of a conspiracy then presumably they'=
>d do something as elementary as provide him with a getaway driver so he did=

>n't have to rely on public transportation to get away.

Your presumptions are getting in the way of examining the evidence...


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com

[Walt]

On Monday, February 3, 2014 11:52:30 PM UTC-6, Truecristian Jesus wrote:
> The big kind of world shaking conspiracies that Oliver Stone and other CTers present was never a possibility. But it was certainly possible that Oswald could have been acting with some other people. That was what happened with John Wilkes Booth. Booth was the leader of maybe a half dozen or so disgruntled Southern sympathizers who wanted to strike against the Union leadership (the same night Lincoln was assassinated, a coconspirator of Booth's stabbed, but failed to kill, William Seward. A conspirator who was supposed to shoot Vice President Andrew Johnson got cold feet).
>
>
>
> But in the fifty years since that day there's not been a shred of evidence that Oswald acted in concert with anyone else.

That's true.... Lee was simply the lone nut scapegoat for others who acted in concert.