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PROVEN FACT --- Lee Harvey Oswald Murdered J.D. Tippit
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David Von Pein
Apr 17, 2017, 4:35:19 AM4/17/17
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JOHN FIORENTINO SAID:
The Warren Commission made a definitive statement in its report about LHO arriving slightly after 1:15pm. But if that's true, then again, it casts great doubt about him killing Tippit. I didn't say it, they did.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You're overstating the Warren Commission's timeline. The WC's times (as seen in CE1119-A) are "approximate" times--not "definitive" as you claim. And on pages 156-157 of the Warren Report, we find these words: "At about 1:16 p.m.". The Warren Commission wasn't placing the 1:16 time in concrete and you know it. All times are only approximations.
And we know for a fact that anyone saying Tippit was "DOA" at Methodist at 1:15 was simply wrong. Because, as mentioned previously, the ambulance didn't even arrive at 10th Street to pick up Tippit until about 1:19 PM.
Do you really think that BOTH the Dallas Police radio logs AND the Hughes ambulance records are wrong? Dudley Hughes filled out the ambulance call slip before the ambulance left for 10th Street, and the slip was stamped "1:18 PM". ["With Malice"; page 101.]
Yes, yes, I know, you don't rely on a single thing uttered by Dale K. Myers (which, of course, is very very silly, since Myers has spent more time studying the Tippit murder than anyone else in the world; but, for some reason, Mr. Fiorentino doesn't like Mr. Myers' work, so anything in Myers' book must be dismissed by John F., even though Dale has come to the exact same bottom-line conclusion that John Fiorentino has come to--Oswald murdered Tippit). Go figure. ~shrug~
And the crap about the bullets not being tied conclusively to Oswald's revolver is not nearly enough to raise "reasonable doubt". (And as you know, of course, Joseph Nicol--the NON-Government firearms expert--did say that one of the four bullets could be linked conclusively to Oswald's gun.)
Another often overlooked aspect of the bullets that killed Tippit is this -- Those bullets showed characteristics of being fired through a gun that had been re-barreled, meaning the bullets wobbled going down the barrel. And--voila!--Oswald's revolver did have such a barrel, causing the bullets to wobble.
But the key physical evidence are the bullet shells, two of which did not go through J.M. Poe's hands at all and, as such, they have a clear chain of custody (even for most conspiracy kooks).
The only possible way for Lee Harvey Oswald to be innocent of shooting J.D. Tippit is if the following idiotic situation occurred (which nobody could possibly even begin to believe happened on November 22, 1963):
Somebody other than Lee Oswald shoots Tippit with Oswald's revolver. This "non-Oswald" shooter (who looks just exactly like Lee Harvey Oswald, but really isn't him) then flees the scene of the Tippit crime, dumping four shells on the ground as he runs away. This non-Oswald shooter then meets up with the real Lee Oswald and hands off the Tippit murder weapon to LHO. Oswald then proceeds to the Texas Theater where he is arrested while in possession of the gun that somebody else used to kill Officer Tippit just 35 minutes earlier.
JOHN FIORENTINO SAID:
Obviously we have some screw ups in the timing here, Methodist Hospital DOA 1:15, DPD supplementary Report 1:15, FBI Report 1:15. (Markham, if you want to include her 1:06 and Bowley 1:10)
I do question how 3 separate accounts could have the same time of 1:15. I'm curious about that, you must excuse me.
I'm pointing out that the Commission was at times its own worst enemy by making statements that themselves cause people to question (in this case rightly so) their conclusions.
There are numerous examples of this throughout the report, such as their statement about the ammunition used to kill JFK being currently manufactured (in 1964) - that's wrong, it was not.
BTW, as an old legal hound, the ballistics on the Oswald revolver wouldn't have convicted Al Capone. While the cartridges were tied to the revolver, the bullets recovered from Tippit were not. There was also a discrepancy in the number and make of cartridges found.
A good defense lawyer would have destroyed the prosecution's case.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You're silly.
It would seem as though the tactics of Anthony Marsh have now rubbed off on John Fiorentino. (You know, the "always argue with someone just for the sake of arguing, even though you agree with them" tactic.)
The only way a jury would have acquitted Oswald in the Tippit murder is if the entire jury was comprised of the "OJ Twelve" (the same dimwitted jury which let Simpson go free).
The evidence against Oswald in the Tippit murder is so strong and foolproof, no sensible person would have any trouble at all convicting him.
1.) The many "It Was Oswald With A Gun" witnesses.
2.) The bullet shells.
3.) Joseph Nicol's testimony too (don't totally dismiss this).
4.) Oswald's incredibly incriminating statements made to Officer C.T. Walker in the police car.
5.) And the clincher--Oswald still had the Tippit murder weapon ON HIM just half-an-hour after Tippit was killed.
Even with some anomalies and discrepancies in the timelines and the "Remington" vs. "Winchester" bullet shells, the totality of evidence hangs Oswald for Tippit's murder and always has. And anyone saying otherwise just flat-out does not want to face the reality that exists within that "totality" of evidence.
David Von Pein
June 2013
More....
http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/tippit-timelines.html
The Warren Commission made a definitive statement in its report about LHO arriving slightly after 1:15pm. But if that's true, then again, it casts great doubt about him killing Tippit. I didn't say it, they did.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You're overstating the Warren Commission's timeline. The WC's times (as seen in CE1119-A) are "approximate" times--not "definitive" as you claim. And on pages 156-157 of the Warren Report, we find these words: "At about 1:16 p.m.". The Warren Commission wasn't placing the 1:16 time in concrete and you know it. All times are only approximations.
And we know for a fact that anyone saying Tippit was "DOA" at Methodist at 1:15 was simply wrong. Because, as mentioned previously, the ambulance didn't even arrive at 10th Street to pick up Tippit until about 1:19 PM.
Do you really think that BOTH the Dallas Police radio logs AND the Hughes ambulance records are wrong? Dudley Hughes filled out the ambulance call slip before the ambulance left for 10th Street, and the slip was stamped "1:18 PM". ["With Malice"; page 101.]
Yes, yes, I know, you don't rely on a single thing uttered by Dale K. Myers (which, of course, is very very silly, since Myers has spent more time studying the Tippit murder than anyone else in the world; but, for some reason, Mr. Fiorentino doesn't like Mr. Myers' work, so anything in Myers' book must be dismissed by John F., even though Dale has come to the exact same bottom-line conclusion that John Fiorentino has come to--Oswald murdered Tippit). Go figure. ~shrug~
And the crap about the bullets not being tied conclusively to Oswald's revolver is not nearly enough to raise "reasonable doubt". (And as you know, of course, Joseph Nicol--the NON-Government firearms expert--did say that one of the four bullets could be linked conclusively to Oswald's gun.)
Another often overlooked aspect of the bullets that killed Tippit is this -- Those bullets showed characteristics of being fired through a gun that had been re-barreled, meaning the bullets wobbled going down the barrel. And--voila!--Oswald's revolver did have such a barrel, causing the bullets to wobble.
But the key physical evidence are the bullet shells, two of which did not go through J.M. Poe's hands at all and, as such, they have a clear chain of custody (even for most conspiracy kooks).
The only possible way for Lee Harvey Oswald to be innocent of shooting J.D. Tippit is if the following idiotic situation occurred (which nobody could possibly even begin to believe happened on November 22, 1963):
Somebody other than Lee Oswald shoots Tippit with Oswald's revolver. This "non-Oswald" shooter (who looks just exactly like Lee Harvey Oswald, but really isn't him) then flees the scene of the Tippit crime, dumping four shells on the ground as he runs away. This non-Oswald shooter then meets up with the real Lee Oswald and hands off the Tippit murder weapon to LHO. Oswald then proceeds to the Texas Theater where he is arrested while in possession of the gun that somebody else used to kill Officer Tippit just 35 minutes earlier.
JOHN FIORENTINO SAID:
Obviously we have some screw ups in the timing here, Methodist Hospital DOA 1:15, DPD supplementary Report 1:15, FBI Report 1:15. (Markham, if you want to include her 1:06 and Bowley 1:10)
I do question how 3 separate accounts could have the same time of 1:15. I'm curious about that, you must excuse me.
I'm pointing out that the Commission was at times its own worst enemy by making statements that themselves cause people to question (in this case rightly so) their conclusions.
There are numerous examples of this throughout the report, such as their statement about the ammunition used to kill JFK being currently manufactured (in 1964) - that's wrong, it was not.
BTW, as an old legal hound, the ballistics on the Oswald revolver wouldn't have convicted Al Capone. While the cartridges were tied to the revolver, the bullets recovered from Tippit were not. There was also a discrepancy in the number and make of cartridges found.
A good defense lawyer would have destroyed the prosecution's case.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You're silly.
It would seem as though the tactics of Anthony Marsh have now rubbed off on John Fiorentino. (You know, the "always argue with someone just for the sake of arguing, even though you agree with them" tactic.)
The only way a jury would have acquitted Oswald in the Tippit murder is if the entire jury was comprised of the "OJ Twelve" (the same dimwitted jury which let Simpson go free).
The evidence against Oswald in the Tippit murder is so strong and foolproof, no sensible person would have any trouble at all convicting him.
1.) The many "It Was Oswald With A Gun" witnesses.
2.) The bullet shells.
3.) Joseph Nicol's testimony too (don't totally dismiss this).
4.) Oswald's incredibly incriminating statements made to Officer C.T. Walker in the police car.
5.) And the clincher--Oswald still had the Tippit murder weapon ON HIM just half-an-hour after Tippit was killed.
Even with some anomalies and discrepancies in the timelines and the "Remington" vs. "Winchester" bullet shells, the totality of evidence hangs Oswald for Tippit's murder and always has. And anyone saying otherwise just flat-out does not want to face the reality that exists within that "totality" of evidence.
David Von Pein
June 2013
More....
http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/tippit-timelines.html
Ben Holmes
Apr 17, 2017, 1:45:43 PM4/17/17
to
No such thing has *EVER* been "proven."
The fact that you and the Warren Commission consistently lie about the time of the murder shows that you realize just how weak your case actually is.
Indeed, there's a number of inconsistencies that show that your theory just doesn't fit.
David Von Pein
Apr 17, 2017, 9:21:09 PM4/17/17
to
"Even with some anomalies and discrepancies in the timelines and the "Remington" vs. "Winchester" bullet shells, the totality of evidence hangs Oswald for Tippit's murder and always has. And anyone saying otherwise just flat-out does not want to face the reality that exists within that "totality" of evidence." -- DVP; June of 2013
Ben Holmes
Apr 17, 2017, 9:29:00 PM4/17/17
to
YOU'RE LYING, DAVID VON PEIN!!!
There was never a trial for the Tippit murder, there was *NEVER* any cross examination of the evidence, there's MASSIVE problems in both the evidence and the chain of custody for the evidence.
YOU COULDN'T CONVICT HITLER OF MURDERING A SINGLE JEW WITH THE EVIDENCE YOU HAVE IN THE TIPPIT CASE.
The fact that you're lying is also demonstrated by your unwillingness to engage in debate on this topic.
Such AMAZING cowardice!!!
> "Even with some anomalies and discrepancies in the timelines and the "Remington" vs. "Winchester" bullet shells, the totality of evidence hangs Oswald for Tippit's murder and always has. And anyone saying otherwise just flat-out does not want to face the reality that exists within that "totality" of evidence." -- DVP; June of 2013
Tell us David, how do you hope to convince anyone with blatant lies?
David Von Pein
Apr 17, 2017, 11:54:03 PM4/17/17
to
I hear toy boats make a nice hobby....
Ben Holmes
Apr 18, 2017, 12:02:22 AM4/18/17
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How can you "properly assess" the evidence you refuse to even acknowledge???
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David Von Pein
Apr 18, 2017, 2:44:50 AM4/18/17
to
The only possible way for Lee Harvey Oswald to be innocent of shooting J.D. Tippit is if the following idiotic situation occurred (which nobody could possibly even begin to believe happened).... Somebody other than Lee Oswald shoots Tippit with Oswald's revolver. This "non-Oswald" shooter (who looks just exactly like Lee Harvey Oswald, but really isn't him) then flees the scene of the Tippit crime, dumping four shells on the ground as he runs away. This non-Oswald shooter then meets up with the real Lee Oswald and hands off the Tippit murder weapon to LHO. Oswald then proceeds to the Texas Theater where he is arrested while in possession of the gun that somebody else used to kill Officer Tippit just 35 minutes earlier.
Ben Holmes
Apr 18, 2017, 3:09:14 AM4/18/17
to
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 7:44:50 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> The only possible way for Lee Harvey Oswald to be innocent of shooting J.D. Tippit...
Tut tut tut... you've already asserted that this is "proven fact."
Now you're admitting that it's *NOT* "proven fact."
Lied, didn't you?
Why not simply produce this "proven" case that you have???
(You won't, of course...)
> The only possible way for Lee Harvey Oswald to be innocent of shooting J.D. Tippit...
Tut tut tut... you've already asserted that this is "proven fact."
Now you're admitting that it's *NOT* "proven fact."
Lied, didn't you?
Why not simply produce this "proven" case that you have???
(You won't, of course...)
David Von Pein
Apr 18, 2017, 4:11:52 AM4/18/17
to
My Tippit section is here, btw....
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/index.html#JD-Tippit
Ben Holmes
Apr 18, 2017, 1:52:46 PM4/18/17
to
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 9:11:52 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 11:09:14 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 7:44:50 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > The only possible way for Lee Harvey Oswald to be innocent of shooting J.D. Tippit...
> >
> > Tut tut tut... you've already asserted that this is "proven fact."
> >
> > Now you're admitting that it's *NOT* "proven fact."
> >
> > Lied, didn't you?
Dead silence...
> On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 11:09:14 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 7:44:50 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > The only possible way for Lee Harvey Oswald to be innocent of shooting J.D. Tippit...
> >
> > Tut tut tut... you've already asserted that this is "proven fact."
> >
> > Now you're admitting that it's *NOT* "proven fact."
> >
> > Lied, didn't you?
Liars often shut up when their lies are pointed out...
> > Why not simply produce this "proven" case that you have???
> >
> > (You won't, of course...)
>
> Already have (of course). You know that. You're just being an ignorant P-word (yet again). Nothing new there.
David *CAN'T* present his case - because he knows that I'll rip it to shreds USING THE EVIDENCE.
> My Tippit section is here, btw....
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/index.html#JD-Tippit
As just one example:
>Sergeant Hill had originally put out a broadcast over the DPD police radio stating that the killer was probably carrying an "automatic" type of weapon. But in 1986, Hill tried to clear up the confusion about the gun with these comments:
>
>"I assumed that it was an automatic simply because we had found all the hulls in one little general area. .... If you find a cluster of shells, you have to assume that they were fired from an automatic." -- Gerald Hill quote (Via Dale K. Myers' book, "With Malice: Lee Harvey Oswald And The Murder Of Officer J.D. Tippit"; Pp. 260-261)
This nonsense has already been dealt with ... it FAILS TO EXPLAIN the caliber.
You won't explain it either... it's a fatal flaw.
You lose!
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