If CE399 Didn't Hit John Connally...What Bullet Did?
David Von Pein
PARKLAND STRETCHER INJURED JOHN CONNALLY ON 11-22-63, INSTEAD OF
CE399?
(A CURIOUS NOTION, PER THE BELIEFS OF MOST CTers)......
==================================================
Warren Commission Exhibit #399 remains the only whole bullet connected
with JFK's murder and Connally's injuries.
And we know, for a fact, that CE399 was fired from Oswald's rifle.
And Oswald's rifle was found in a building overlooking the motorcade
route.
These are the raw facts surrounding Bullet 399.
Now, to believe that CE399 was a "plant" of some kind is to believe
that one or more individuals had a desire to remove from evidence the
real stretcher bullet found by Darrell C. Tomlinson in Parkland
Hospital, and replace it with a bullet that was fired from Oswald's
gun.
Is it MORE reasonable to believe in the latter scenario which has
people doing illegal, underhanded things CONNECTED TO A PRESIDENTIAL
ASSASSINATION (of all things)?
Or is it (perhaps) more reasonable to believe that people who saw the
bullet on November 22 had trouble later confirming with 100% accuracy
that that exact bullet was, indeed, the bullet they saw in November?
We must also consider what I believe to be a very important fact
regarding the Tomlinson stretcher bullet -- Every person who saw the
stretcher bullet on 11/22/63 saw a WHOLE, INTACT BULLET. They didn't
see a banged-all-to-hell, fragmented bullet.
And almost all CTers seem to think that if a bullet had done the
damage it did to Governor Connally, the bullet (no matter whether it
was CE399 or some OTHER bullet) would have been badly deformed and
damaged.
Most of the CTers who offer up an opinion on this subject certainly
don't think that ANY bullet (pointed or otherwise) would have ended up
in the fairly-good condition it was found in by Tomlinson after
breaking the bones that we know the ONE bullet that struck Connally
did break.
And whether you think the stretcher bullet was CE399 or some pointy-
tipped bullet from some other non-Oswald gun....a major point to be
made here is: There WAS a "stretcher bullet" found by Tomlinson in a
Parkland hallway on or near Connally's stretcher at approx. 1:30 PM
CST on 11/22/63.
That, to me, is a key point. Because if that bullet found by Tomlinson
WASN'T inside Governor Connally on November 22....then where did the
one bullet go that went into (and fell out of) John B. Connally's body
that day?
Food for (399) thought anyway.
YoHarvey
David? You expect a LOGICAL response from this group? Forgive my
sarcasm. 399 for me is the ky to the events of 11/22. This is why it
MUST be discredited by CT's. It's all they have. We know 399 has
ballistically been tied to Oswalds MC. This is FACT. This has to be
destroyed by CT's. So, they will lie, fabricate, distort, speculate
and lie some more. 44 years and they can't disprove it. That's
another fact.
David Von Pein
>>> "You expect a LOGICAL response from this group?" <<<
Oh, heavens no.
I just enjoy recycling my hundreds of JFK-related essays every so
often.
I always feel it's a shame to waste all of that CS&L by posting them
just once....although they are pretty much wasted on the CT-Kooks in
here.
But it's not exactly like there are 1,001 Internet sites around for me
to spread my CS&L word, seeing as how virtually all of the 'Konspiracy
Kook' Sites are run by CTers who have placed the proverbial sign on
their Internet door which says the following (more or less):
"No LNers Allowed; No Need To Post; You'll Be Kicked Off Within Days
If You Do."
Plus: My "CIA Disinfo Handler" likes me to re-post my stuff on
schedule too. And since the Government IS footing the bill for this
material, how can I refuse? ;)
After all, I didn't write up all this stuff just for the fun of
it...now did I? Right, CTers? Because, as with everything connected to
the assassination, nothing is ever what it seems to be....even my
articles posted at an Internet asylum like this one.
BONUS "DISINFO" ITEM......
www.box.net/static/flash/box_explorer.swf?widgetHash=8asjq3j40c&v=1
Robert Harris
<b3455edd-3bc2-49c0...@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
> DO CTers THINK A DIFFERENT, UNMUTILATED, WHOLE BULLET FOUND ON A
> PARKLAND STRETCHER INJURED JOHN CONNALLY ON 11-22-63, INSTEAD OF
> CE399?
David, it's not logical to ask what "CT's" think, since the answers will
vary widely.
You might choose to ask what I think, but infinitely better, is to
simply ask what happened, and then honestly try to figure it out.
You will find a very specific answer to your question in this video,
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qa1C_gwSFMY
and the addendum
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zXYvZ_--ZFA&watch_response
>
> (A CURIOUS NOTION, PER THE BELIEFS OF MOST CTers)......
>
>
> ==================================================
>
>
>
>
> Warren Commission Exhibit #399 remains the only whole bullet connected
> with JFK's murder and Connally's injuries.
David, the very first line of your essay is presumptuous and
unverifiable. You have no idea how many bullets, whole or otherwise are
connected to the crime.
One thing I have never understood about you guys, is what you get out of
deliberately closing your minds and assuming the rule of blind advocate.
When people on either side of the debate do that, they become mental
cripples, totally incapable of learning and researching.
Is that really your goal?
Robert Harris
Robert Harris
<ed80e957-ee94-4447...@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
YoHarvey <bail...@gmail.com> wrote:
LOL!!
Did you forget your meds today, Harv?
Robert Harris
robcap...@netscape.com
"DO CTers THINK A DIFFERENT, UNMUTILATED, WHOLE BULLET FOUND ON A
PARKLAND STRETCHER INJURED JOHN CONNALLY ON 11-22-63, INSTEAD OF
CE399?"
No, I think the bullet that is presented as CE399 was NOT found on the
stretcher JBC was on during 11/22/63.
(A CURIOUS NOTION, PER THE BELIEFS OF MOST CTers)......
> ==================================================
"Warren Commission Exhibit #399 remains the only whole bullet
connected with JFK's murder and Connally's injuries."
No, it isn't. In addition to the one Tomlinson found, which he stated
repeatedly was NOT the one the WC presented as CE399, TWO other
bullets were found as well. Elizabeth Goode Wright, director of
nursing at Parkland, told researcher Wallace Millam in 1993 that her
husband, O.P. Wright (director of security) found TWO bullets on
11/22/63. He handled the "magic bullet" before the Secret Service
received it, but he also found a unfired, "whole" .38 with
manufacturer's case markings ".38 SP WCC" -- the very same markings as
2 of the 4 shell casings allegedly retrieved from the Tippit scene and
supposedly and supposedly matched to the pistol found on LHO at the
time of his arrest. This was found on a hospital gurney and Wright did
NOT turn it over to the authorities, and he showed it to Millam during
the interview. To me, this is further proof of the frame being placed
on LHO, as they planted a bullet matching the pistol he would be found
with as well. Explain this.
"And we know, for a fact, that CE399 was fired from Oswald's rifle."
It was fired from the Carcano found in the TSBD, BUT you have failed
to prove this rifle was really LHO's.
"And Oswald's rifle was found in a building overlooking the motorcade
route."
Again, you have NOT proved the 40.2 inch Carcano found WAS LHO's.
"These are the raw facts surrounding Bullet 399."
Facts? How about proving these assertions?
"Now, to believe that CE399 was a "plant" of some kind is to believe
that one or more individuals had a desire to remove from evidence the
real stretcher bullet found by Darrell C. Tomlinson in Parkland
Hospital, and replace it with a bullet that was fired from Oswald's
gun."
Yes, this is called a "conspiracy" to commit a crime and cover it up.
"Is it MORE reasonable to believe in the latter scenario which has
people doing illegal, underhanded things CONNECTED TO A PRESIDENTIAL
ASSASSINATION (of all things)?"
It is more reasonable, and the evidence proves this scenario --
conspiracy -- so you will have to deal with it.
"Or is it (perhaps) more reasonable to believe that people who saw the
bullet on November 22 had trouble later confirming with 100% accuracy
that that exact bullet was, indeed, the bullet they saw in November?"
No, a bullet is NOT that hard to remember. Why are you not asking if
it is more reasonable to believe a bullet can cause 8 wounds, break
two major bones, and come out virtually intact?
"We must also consider what I believe to be a very important fact
regarding the Tomlinson stretcher bullet -- Every person who saw the
stretcher bullet on 11/22/63 saw a WHOLE, INTACT BULLET. They didn't
see a banged-all-to-hell, fragmented bullet."
So? Was it the same one presented as CE399 later on? According to
Tomlinson, the man who found it, NO, but according to the WC, who were
NOT there, yes. Now, since you are always talking about CS&L, who
should know better, the man who found it or a bunch of guys who never
laid eyes on it on 11/22/63?
"And almost all CTers seem to think that if a bullet had done the
damage it did to Governor Connally, the bullet (no matter whether it
was CE399 or some OTHER bullet) would have been badly deformed and
damaged."
Yes, and it goes beyond CTers, actual ballistic experts have said this
as well! Good ole CS&L says it must be so as well.
"Most of the CTers who offer up an opinion on this subject certainly
don't think that ANY bullet (pointed or otherwise) would have ended up
in the fairly-good condition it was found in by Tomlinson after
breaking the bones that we know the ONE bullet that struck Connally
did break."
You bet, nor do ballistic experts, that is why your side relies on a
"Vet" and a Urologist to make your case. You have to be totally
ignorant of bullets to make the claim you are making.
"And whether you think the stretcher bullet was CE399 or some pointy-
tipped bullet from some other non-Oswald gun....a major point to be
made here is: There WAS a "stretcher bullet" found by Tomlinson in a
Parkland hallway on or near Connally's stretcher at approx. 1:30 PM
CST on 11/22/63."
This is very misleading, now you are admitting that another bullet
could have been found, and you are trying to gloss over it. The main
point is the man who found the bullet on 11/22/63, Tomlinson, said he
could NOT say it was the governer's stretcher it came from, and he he
said the bullet he found was NOT the bullet presented by the WC as
CE399. This is fact based on the testimony of Tomlinson. You are
trying to minimize these facts.
"That, to me, is a key point. Because if that bullet found by
Tomlinson WASN'T inside Governor Connally on November 22....then where
did the one bullet go that went into (and fell out of) John B.
Connally's body that day?"
Probably in the trash as it was NOT from a Carcano, just food for
thought. How about Hoover saying the bullet found on the stretcher
was from JFK's? How about the .38 bullet found? Where did that come
from?
"Food for (399) thought anyway."
There sure is, but you won't address it.
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/8f0d726433d605af
>>> "David, the very first line of your essay is presumptuous and unverifiable. You have no idea how many bullets, whole or otherwise are connected to the crime." <<<
Oh, so you've entered some additional whole bullets besides CE399 into
the official record, huh? (That's news to me.)
My quote is perfectly accurate and verifiable, since there IS, in
FACT, only one "whole bullet" in evidence in the JFK case. I wasn't
counting the first, missed shot, of course. I was referring to bullets
in "evidence" in the case, which I thought was quite obvious, when I
said this:
"Warren Commission Exhibit #399 remains the only whole bullet
connected with JFK's murder and Connally's injuries."
>>> "One thing I have never understood about you guys, is what you get out of deliberately closing your minds and assuming the rule of blind advocate. When people on either side of the debate do that, they become mental cripples, totally incapable of learning and researching." <<<
Ruling out a lot of crazy, extraordinary, ridiculous, and wholly-
improbable cloak-&-dagger theories isn't what I'd call "closing [my]
mind" -- it's what I'd call: "Filtering out the absurd".
Unfortunately, in the JFK case, nothing is too "absurd" for many
"researchers". (Just ask David Lifton and Brian David Andersen.) In
fact, a whole lot of conspiracists place the absurd on the very same
playing field with the sensible and reasonable non-absurd stuff.
Can a murder case truly get solved when the absurd is treated the same
as the rational?
Through the eyes of many JFK conspiracy theorists, apparently the
answer to that last question is a resounding "Yes".
Robert Harris
<97d28de0-500e-4edc...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com>,
David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/8f0d726433d605af
>
>
> >>> "David, the very first line of your essay is presumptuous and
> >>> unverifiable. You have no idea how many bullets, whole or otherwise are
> >>> connected to the crime." <<<
>
>
> Oh, so you've entered some additional whole bullets besides CE399 into
> the official record, huh? (That's news to me.)
Your question is nonsensical. I did not say I entered anything into the
official record.
Why do you have to pretend that I said something entirely different? Why
don't you address my actual statement?
>
> My quote is perfectly accurate and verifiable, since there IS, in
> FACT, only one "whole bullet" in evidence in the JFK case.
But that's NOT what you said. You said,
"Warren Commission Exhibit #399 remains the only whole bullet connected
with JFK's murder and Connally's injuries."
You did not say, "in evidence", as you are saying in your newly modified
sentence. You said "connected", which could also apply to bullets that
were not entered into evidence.
David, we expect you to misrepresent witnesses and adversaries, but it
really is pathetic when you sink to misrepresenting your own words:-)
Why don't you for once, show a little integrity and simply admit that
you were wrong?
> I wasn't
> counting the first, missed shot, of course. I was referring to bullets
> in "evidence" in the case, which I thought was quite obvious, when I
> said this:
>
>
> "Warren Commission Exhibit #399 remains the only whole bullet
> connected with JFK's murder and Connally's injuries."
Look it up in any dictionary, David. "Connected" does NOT mean "entered
into evidence".
You were just flatly, wrong, David.
>
>
> >>> "One thing I have never understood about you guys, is what you get out of
> >>> deliberately closing your minds and assuming the rule of blind advocate.
> >>> When people on either side of the debate do that, they become mental
> >>> cripples, totally incapable of learning and researching." <<<
>
>
> Ruling out a lot of crazy, extraordinary, ridiculous, and wholly-
> improbable cloak-&-dagger theories isn't what I'd call "closing [my]
> mind" -- it's what I'd call: "Filtering out the absurd".
Why is it crazy, to accept the fact that two civilians and two secret
service agents unanimously, refused to sign off on CE-399 as the same
bullet they handled and examined at Parkland?
Why is it ridiculous, to accept the word of Governor Connally, who
clearly stated that the bullet fell out of his thigh in his room and was
retrieved by a nurse?
FIVE witnesses put the lie to the FBI, David.
ZERO witnesses supported them.
Only a total crackpot would deny the official record, when it is this
clear and unanimous. This is not even a close call.
You are simply in denial, and THAT is what is truly insane.
>
>
> Unfortunately, in the JFK case, nothing is too "absurd" for many
> "researchers". (Just ask David Lifton and Brian David Andersen.) In
> fact, a whole lot of conspiracists place the absurd on the very same
> playing field with the sensible and reasonable non-absurd stuff.
There are lots of crackpot theories floating around, on the JFK case and
a hundred other issues. But what does that have to do with anything?
If I claim tomorrow that JFK was shot from a flying saucer, exactly how
much does that alter the chances that this was a conspiracy?
But let me tell you what the crackpot theories DO accomplish.
They mislead you into thinking that since their theories are goofy, ALL
theories that disagree with you are goofy.
And that is one terrible fallacy, David. It will turn you into the
mirror image of the nutty people you oppose.
Robert Harris
Robert Harris
<9478e462-8d33-40e6...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "You expect a LOGICAL response from this group?" <<<
>
> Oh, heavens no.
David,
Have you noticed that after posting three messages in this thread, you
continue to totally evade the critical issues?
When are you going to talk about the fact that every one of the four men
who handled and examined the stretcher bullet, refused to confirm that
it was CE-399, and that two of them specifically stated that it was
shaped differently.
And that Governor Connally said the actual bullet from his thigh fell
out in his room and was retrieved by a nurse?
You have really got the blanket insults down pat, but when do you ever
discuss facts?
Robert Harris
robcap...@netscape.com
> In article
> <9478e462-8d33-40e6-86cc-53ef20084...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > >>> "You expect a LOGICAL response from this group?" <<<
>
> > Oh, heavens no.
>
> David,
>
> Have you noticed that after posting three messages in this thread, you
> continue to totally evade the critical issues?
>
> When are you going to talk about the fact that every one of the four men
> who handled and examined the stretcher bullet, refused to confirm that
> it was CE-399, and that two of them specifically stated that it was
> shaped differently.
>
> And that Governor Connally said the actual bullet from his thigh fell
> out in his room and was retrieved by a nurse?
>
> You have really got the blanket insults down pat, but when do you ever
> discuss facts?
>
> Robert Harris
Excellent points Robert, but of course David won't answer, or if he
does he'll switch to personal attacks.
>
>
>
> > I just enjoy recycling my hundreds of JFK-related essays every so
> > often.
>
> > I always feel it's a shame to waste all of that CS&L by posting them
> > just once....although they are pretty much wasted on the CT-Kooks in
> > here.
>
> > But it's not exactly like there are 1,001 Internet sites around for me
> > to spread my CS&L word, seeing as how virtually all of the 'Konspiracy
> > Kook' Sites are run by CTers who have placed the proverbial sign on
> > their Internet door which says the following (more or less):
>
> > "No LNers Allowed; No Need To Post; You'll Be Kicked Off Within Days
> > If You Do."
>
> > Plus: My "CIA Disinfo Handler" likes me to re-post my stuff on
> > schedule too. And since the Government IS footing the bill for this
> > material, how can I refuse? ;)
>
> > After all, I didn't write up all this stuff just for the fun of
> > it...now did I? Right, CTers? Because, as with everything connected to
> > the assassination, nothing is ever what it seems to be....even my
> > articles posted at an Internet asylum like this one.
>
> >www.DavidVonPein.blogspot.com
>
> > BONUS "DISINFO" ITEM......
>
> >www.box.net/static/flash/box_explorer.swf?widgetHash=8asjq3j40c&v=1- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/8f0d726433d605af
>>> "Governor Connally said the actual bullet from his thigh fell out in his room and was retrieved by a nurse?" <<<
Source for that please.
("His room"??)
Anyway, there is absolutely no official evidence or testimony that
indicates any "bullet" other than CE399 was recovered in connection
with Governor Connally's injuries.
To think otherwise is to believe in a massive cover-up of the real
evidence associated with the death of a President and the critical
wounding of a U.S. Governor.*
* = Oops...sorry. Most CTers do, of course, believe that my last
paragraph is a truism. How silly of me to cast doubt on the huge
cover-
up operation that conspiracists endorse, a cover-up which must
certainly have involved a ton of people, from Parkland to Bethesda to
the DPD to the FBI to the White House to the WC to the HSCA to God
knows who else too. (Just plain silly. Even a cover-up one-tenth this
size is virtually impossible and silly to believe in.)
Anyhow, if Connally heard something "ping" to the floor in the
operating room or in the ER (whichever it was), how does that equate
to a "bullet" positively being recovered?
Answer: It doesn't.
Plus: It's also just flat-out stupid to think that a nurse picked up a
bullet that was connected to a Presidential murder and then that
bullet just vanished off the planet.
Where did the bullet go? Who saw it? To whom was it given? Did
Connally SEE it? Answer to that last one: No.
Connally didn't have any idea whether a "bullet" fell out of him in
the ER/OR. Just as he had no idea which shot hit JFK. He couldn't have
known that detail, because he wasn't even looking at JFK when the
President was being shot with bullets. Talk about "blind" faith.
>>> "You did not say "in evidence", as you are saying in your newly-modified sentence. You said "connected", which could also apply to bullets that were not entered into evidence." <<<
Yes, you're correct on this point, Robert. In my original statement,
which was written several months ago and repeated in this thread, I
should have said:
"Warren Commission Exhibit #399 remains the only whole bullet IN
EVIDENCE connected with JFK's murder and Connally's injuries."
I keep forgetting that CTers love to wallow in minutiae and they love
chaff much more than wheat.
My original statement, though, is still quite true, of course...but,
yes, I suppose I could have added the words "in evidence" to clarify
it even more. But you probably knew what I meant anyway, you just want
to criticize via semantics.
>>> "When are you going to talk about the fact that every one of the four men who handled and examined the stretcher bullet refused to confirm that it was CE-399, and that two of them specifically stated that it was shaped differently." <<<
So, let's examine the CE399 alternatives:
If we're to believe that CE399 was not the bullet found on the
Parkland stretcher, then this would have to mean that a different,
completely-INTACT, WHOLE bullet did all of the bodily damage to John
Connally.**
** = Or do you want to add another layer of unsupportable stuff to the
"CT" pile by purporting that JBC was shot more than one time, which
cannot be supported by any of the evidence, particularly due to the
fact that not a single bullet or large fragment was plucked from JBC's
body?
CTers who believe that a "pointy"-tipped bullet hit Connally, in lieu
of 399, are then forced to abandon one of their other favorite
theories....the one that says: No bullet could emerge in almost
"pristine" condition after having done the damage 399 supposedly did
to JBC + JFK.
Did any of those four people who refused to positively I.D. 399 say
that the bullet they DID see on 11/22/63 was mangled or smashed in any
way whatsoever? No, they didn't, did they?
In fact, the main contention among CTers in this "It Was A Different
Bullet" regard is that the nose of the bullet that CTers claim was
found on the stretcher still had its POINTY nose intact (i.e., not
smashed or mushroomed at all).
This, in fact, is supposedly the only significant difference being
cited by CTers to advance the notion that the "real" stretcher bullet
was not CE399.
So, one theory dearly adhered to by CTers for years must go overboard
while they accept another (the theory that 399 is a "plant" or a
"substituted" missile).
I'd also like to know the odds of Dr. Vincent Guinn, even via 1970s
standards for such determinations, arriving at a solid "highly
probable" declaration (HSCA Vol. 1; Pg. 505)....
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol1/html/HSCA_Vol1_0255a.htm
....linking CE399 and Governor Connally's small wrist fragments via
NAA if 399 had really NOT been the original source for those bullet
fragments examined by Guinn.
Because a "pointy"-nosed bullet most certainly is NOT a WCC/MC type
bullet. I think even all rabid "Anybody But Oswald" CTers would agree
on that fact. Oswald's Carcano did not use pointy-tipped bullets.
Therefore, per the CTers who like to advance the theory that 399
replaced a pointy bullet (which came out of a NON-OSWALD GUN) in the
official record, it sure was a rather amazing (and very fortunate)
coincidence for those individuals who were, per many CTers,
manipulating and tampering with the official evidence in this
Presidential murder case that Dr. Guinn was able to arrive at the
conclusion he did in 1978 by way of NAA.
It was remarkably fortunate if you ask me. In fact, it's so
remarkable, that I don't think it's unreasonable in the least to label
such a theory about a "planted" or "switched" bullet as "TOTALLY
ABSURD".
But, of course, a conspiracy theorist's mileage will vary (greatly) in
this regard. Surprise.
Another would-be miraculous fact that makes any such "planted" theory
about Bullet 399 fall into the "Absurd" drawer is the fact that
Governor Connally (amazingly for the supposed bullet-planters) had
virtually no bullet lead recovered from his body.
Yes, Connally had fragments in his wrist (deposited by the butt end of
CE399, perfectly mirroring that bullet's damage and its approximate
missing amount of metal)....but he had no whole bullets or large
fragments in his body after the shooting at all.
And yet the alleged bullet-planters/switchers took the chance of
placing a whole bullet like 399 into the record, instead of planting a
beat-up missile with much of its mass missing. Quite a risk.***
*** = It was quite a risk, that is, if you want to believe in a
"planted" 399 specifically (as purported by people like Oliver Stone,
who, in his 1991 movie, has Jack Ruby himself planting 399 on a
stretcher...he wasn't "subbing" one bullet for a similar-looking whole
one).
Therefore, per Stone's/Garrison's crazy theory, the plotters are in
the dark as to the amount of bullet material still in the victims as
of the time of Ruby's planting 399 at Parkland.
It's just silly as all get out to believe in such a Stone-like
scenario. Especially when so much OTHER stuff will already hang their
proverbial "patsy" named Oswald, even WITHOUT planting CE399 in the
hospital -- e.g., LHO's rifle, the paper bag, his prints all over the
place where the TSBD sniper was located, the Tippit murder, the
backyard pictures (also thought to be the product of the
"conspirators"), etc. to near infinity.
Bottom line fact still is today what it was in 1963 --- CE399 was
determined by BOTH major Government inquiries (WC & HSCA) to have been
the "SBT" bullet which went through both John Kennedy and John
Connally on November 22, 1963.
That is a fact of historical record. If conspiracists don't like that
historical fact, maybe they should go about the awesome task of
PROVING THAT THE WC's AND THE HSCA's IDENTICAL DETERMINATIONS
REGARDING CE399 ARE PURE FICTION.
To date, such "proof" from the "planted/switched" camp has yet to
surface.
==============================
Some related logic from the desk of author/lawyer Vince Bugliosi:
"The whole issue of what stretcher the bullet {CE399} was found
on, Connally's or some unknown person's, is a giant nonissue. Since we
know that the bullet was fired from Oswald's Carcano rifle, and we
know it wasn't found on Kennedy's stretcher, it had to have been found
on Connally's stretcher." -- VB; Page 431 of "Reclaiming History"
Endnotes (c.2007)
---------------
"One can only wonder why Commission Exhibit No. 399 did not have
any blood residuum on it. My only guess is that the blood traces that
must have been on it were removed by someone early on at the Dallas
crime lab {Vince should have said "Washington" here, not Dallas} or
elsewhere almost as a matter of course. In all the evidence bullets I
handled in court in murder cases during my prosecutorial career, none
had any visible blood on them. ....
"Interestingly, {the FBI's Robert} Frazier testified that with
respect to the two main bullet fragments found in the presidential
limousine {CE567 & CE569}, "there was a very slight residue of blood
or some other material adhering, but it did not interfere with the
examination. It was wiped off to clean up the bullet for
examination"." -- VB; Page 425 of "RH" Endnotes
---------------
"Even if the new findings {from 2002 to 2004, not the 2007
study} were to render NAA, and hence {Dr. Vincent} Guinn's
conclusions, invalid, we DO know that the stretcher bullet was fired
from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of ALL other weapons.
"Since THAT is definite, what is the likelihood that a bullet
found on CONNALLY'S stretcher, which we know was fired from Oswald's
gun, is not the same bullet that deposited its missing fragments in
Connally's wrist? Next to nothing.
"In other words, when all is said and done, what difference does
it make if it turns out that the NAA tests are completely invalid? But
there is a more important point to be made. Let's not forget that the
NAA conclusions by Guinn...are COMPLETELY CONSISTENT with all the
other evidence showing that Oswald was at the sniper's nest window and
it was his Carcano rifle that fired the only bullets that hit Kennedy.
"This other, independent evidence necessarily increases the
likelihood that Guinn's separate NAA conclusions are accurate." -- VB;
Pages 436-437 of "RH" Endnotes
---------------
"The overwhelming evidence is that whenever Kennedy and Connally
were hit, or first reacted to being hit, they were both struck by the
same bullet." -- VB; Page 482 of "RH"
---------------
"With respect to the second shot fired in Dealey Plaza, the
"single-bullet THEORY" is an obvious misnomer. Though in its incipient
stages it was but a theory, the indisputable evidence is that it is
now a proven FACT, a wholly supported conclusion. .... And no sensible
mind that is also informed can plausibly make the case that the bullet
that struck President Kennedy in the upper right part of his back did
not go on to hit Governor Connally." -- VB; Pages 489-490 of "RH"
---------------
"In the final analysis, even if one were forced to rely only on
the Zapruder film...there is strong evidence of three, and ONLY three
shots, fired during the assassination. This is completely consistent
with all the physical evidence in the case, and flies in the face of
over four decades of allegations made by conspiracy theorists that the
film contains conclusive "proof" of two or more assassins." -- VB;
Page 489 of "RH"
==============================
www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/3200858-post.html
www.box.net/static/flash/box_explorer.swf?widgetHash=8asjq3j40c&v=1
==============================
Brokedad
=====================================================================
If CE399 Didn't Hit John Connally...What Bullet Did?
=====================================================================
Although you have finally gotten around to asking the salient and
important question, perhaps you should spend more time in finding the
answer to this question and less time devoted to "hawking" the VDB
line of BS. (Which is nothing more than the WC & Posner pile of crap
mixed and re-sold as if new manure)
Quite obviously, you must have been born deficient of taste buds if
you can swallow the WC line in regards to "THE SHOT THAT MISSED", and
not only like it but also continue to regurgitate it, spit it out, and
then swallow it again.
Personally, I "gag" each and every time that I even hear about "THE
SHOT THAT MISSED".
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0068a.htm
Now!
Hopefully, for the final time:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0449a.htm
This, the third/last/final shot, which impacted some 30-feet farther
down Elm St. from the Z313 headshot impact, directly in front of James
Altgens position, is the one and only truly "Magic" bullet.
As, it went through JFK's head and exited to strike JBC in the right
rear shoulder, and I might add, after having created the wounds
through the chest and into the leg/thigh of JBC, has disappeared.
========================================================================================
> Warren Commission Exhibit #399 remains the only whole bullet connected
> with JFK's murder and Connally's injuries.
========================================================================================
Nope! It remains as "the only whole bullet" which was admitted into
evidence and which we have seen.
That does not mean that it is the "ONLY" whole bullet connected with
the murder and injuries to JBC.
After all, "Magic" things have a way of disappearing.
P.S. I might add that anyone who supports the WC/Posner shooting
scenario is farther out on a LIMB than am I.
tomnln
Here is the PROOF>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/catch_of_the_day.htm
Page 18 of JBC's book "In History's Shadow".
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:de4381b7-5017-49c5...@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/8f0d726433d605af
>
>
>
>>>> "Governor Connally said the actual bullet from his thigh fell out in
>>>> his room and was retrieved by a nurse?" <<<
>
>
>>>> "When are you going to talk about the fact that every one of the four
>>>> men who handled and examined the stretcher bullet refused to confirm
>>>> that it was CE-399, and that two of them specifically stated that it
>>>> was shaped differently." <<<
>
>
> place where the TSBD sniper was located, the Tippit murder (if you
> also want to stretch your insane CT beliefs to the Tippit crime as
> well and think that the plotters framed Lee for that slaying too), the
> backyard pictures (also thought to be the product of the
> "conspirators"), etc. to near infinity.
>
>
> Bottom line fact still is today what it was in 1963 --- CE399 was
> determined by BOTH major Government inquiries (WC & HSCA) to have been
> the "SBT" bullet which went through both John Kennedy and John
> Connally on November 22, 1963.
>
> That is a fact of historical record. If conspiracists don't like that
> historical fact, maybe they should go about the awesome task of
> PROVING THAT THE WC's AND THE HSCA's IDENTICAL DETERMINATIONS
> REGARDING CE399 ARE PURE FICTION.
>
> To date, such "proof" from the "planted/switched" camp has yet to
> surface.
>
>
> ==============================
>
> Some related logic from the desk of author/lawyer Vince Bugliosi:
>
>
> "The whole issue of what stretcher the bullet {CE399} was found
> on, Connally's or some unknown person's, is a giant nonissue. Since we
> know that the bullet was fired from Oswald's Carcano rifle, and we
> know it wasn't found on Kennedy's stretcher, it had to have been found
> on Connally's stretcher." -- VB; Page 431 of "Reclaiming History"
> Endnotes (c.2007)
>
> ---------------
>
>
> "One can only wonder why Commission Exhibit No. 399 did not have
> any blood residuum on it. My only guess is that the blood traces that
> must have been on it were removed by someone early on at the Dallas
> crime lab or elsewhere almost as a matter of course. In all the
YoHarvey
> DAVID;
>
> Here is the PROOF>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/catch_of_the_day.htm
>
> Page 18 of JBC's book "In History's Shadow".
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/8f0d7264...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Harris et al, after 44 years will continue to support the
unreliability of eyewitnesses as opposed to the scientific evidence.
This is why after 44 years, THEY HAVE NOTHING, nor will they ever.
But hey, perhaps next year, things will change. Sure it will roflmao.
Robert Harris
<de4381b7-5017-49c5...@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/8f0d726433d605af
>
>
>
> >>> "Governor Connally said the actual bullet from his thigh fell out in his
> >>> room and was retrieved by a nurse?" <<<
>
>
> Source for that please.
>
> ("His room"??)
Hmm.. you might have me on that one.
This is from his autobiography, "In History's Shadow",
"...the most curious discovery of all took place when they rolled me off
the stretcher and onto the examining table . A metal object fell to the
floor , with a click no louder than a wedding band . The nurse picked it
up and slipped it into her pocket . It was the bullet from my body , the
one that passed through my back , chest , and wrist , and worked itself
loose from my thigh ."
I agree, that the examining table was probably in a room other than his
own. My bad.
>
> Anyway, there is absolutely no official evidence or testimony that
> indicates any "bullet" other than CE399 was recovered in connection
> with Governor Connally's injuries.
LOL!!
Of course not. The "official record" has the four witness confirming
CE-399, and Connally was NEVER asked about when that bullet became
dislodged.
And since we KNOW that the FBI lied about those non-verifications, why
would you EXPECT to find evicence in the "official record", confirming
that CE-399 was a replacement for the actual stretcher bullet?
>
>
> To think otherwise is to believe in a massive cover-up of the real
> evidence associated with the death of a President and the critical
> wounding of a U.S. Governor.*
There WAS a massive coverup, but it was to most people, quite benign. They
believed that Oswald was associated with Castro, and that any discovery of
conspiracy, would draw us into a nuclear war with Russia.
Even FBI agent Hosty acknowledged that fact in his book.
That was the rationale that was used to make a LOT of people, coverup or
withhold what they knew - and that included Mrs. Kennedy.
>
> * = Oops...sorry. Most CTers do, of course, believe that my last
> paragraph is a truism.
You continue to argue "against" adversaries, rather than seeking reality.
Why not let go of this obsession with the goofy theories, and talk about
what really happened that day, David?
Can we just stipulate that the driver didnt do it, "badgeman" was an
unconvincing illusion, and that a cast of thousands did NOT plot to kill
the President??
Can we do that and just move on?
> How silly of me to cast doubt on the huge cover-
> up operation that conspiracists endorse, a cover-up which must
> certainly have involved a ton of people, from Parkland to Bethesda to
> the DPD to the FBI to the White House to the WC to the HSCA to God
> knows who else too. (Just plain silly. Even a cover-up one-tenth this
> size is virtually impossible and silly to believe in.)
Yawn.. David, wake me up when you are done please.
>
>
>
> Anyhow, if Connally heard something "ping" to the floor in the
> operating room or in the ER (whichever it was), how does that equate
> to a "bullet" positively being recovered?
Duh... "The nurse picked it up and slipped it into her pocket ."
>
> Answer: It doesn't.
David, do you even read citations when they prove you wrong?
>
> Plus: It's also just flat-out stupid to think that a nurse picked up a
> bullet that was connected to a Presidential murder and then that
> bullet just vanished off the planet.
Who said it vanished?
She probably turned it over to the FBI.
>
> Where did the bullet go? Who saw it? To whom was it given? Did
> Connally SEE it? Answer to that last one: No.
David, is this a one person conversation? Or do you just think it is
safer if you answer your own questions:-)
Obviously, Connally saw the nurse pick it up.
>
> Connally didn't have any idea whether a "bullet" fell out of him in
> the ER/OR.
That's not what he said, David.
And he had the minor advantage over you, of actually being there.
> Just as he had no idea which shot hit JFK.
That's true. But he was not talking about a bullet falling out of JFK -
was he:-)
> He couldn't have
> known that detail, because he wasn't even looking at JFK when the
> President was being shot with bullets. Talk about "blind" faith.
I have no idea what your point is here. His statements are perfectly
consistent with you, except of course, for the fact that he never heard
that second shot. But then, neither did anyone else.
>
>
> >>> "You did not say "in evidence", as you are saying in your newly-modified
> >>> sentence. You said "connected", which could also apply to bullets that
> >>> were not entered into evidence." <<<
>
>
> Yes, you're correct on this point, Robert. In my original statement,
> which was written several months ago and repeated in this thread, I
> should have said:
>
> "Warren Commission Exhibit #399 remains the only whole bullet IN
> EVIDENCE connected with JFK's murder and Connally's injuries."
Thank you David.
But that point is irrelevant, since the evidence proves quite
conclusively, that CE-399 was NOT one of the bullets found in Parkland
hospital.
>
> I keep forgetting that CTers love to wallow in minutiae and they love
> chaff much more than wheat.
Yes David, and our mothers all wear combat boots too!
>
> My original statement, though, is still quite true, of course...but,
> yes, I suppose I could have added the words "in evidence" to clarify
> it even more. But you probably knew what I meant anyway, you just want
> to criticize via semantics.
No David, the term "connected" means the same thing to me as it does to
everyone else and as it appears in every dictionary of the English
language.
>
>
> >>> "When are you going to talk about the fact that every one of the four men
> >>> who handled and examined the stretcher bullet refused to confirm that it
> >>> was CE-399, and that two of them specifically stated that it was shaped
> >>> differently." <<<
>
>
> So, let's examine the CE399 alternatives:
>
> If we're to believe that CE399 was not the bullet found on the
> Parkland stretcher, then this would have to mean that a different,
> completely-INTACT, WHOLE bullet did all of the bodily damage to John
> Connally.**
No David. We have no idea what the bullet that nurse recovered, looks
like or what its condition was.
>
> ** = Or do you want to add another layer of unsupportable stuff to the
> "CT" pile by purporting that JBC was shot more than one time, which
> cannot be supported by any of the evidence, particularly due to the
> fact that not a single bullet or large fragment was plucked from JBC's
> body?
Why don't you look at my vids and see where I am coming from, rather
than have to keep guessing?
>
>
> CTers who believe that a "pointy"-tipped bullet hit Connally, in lieu
> of 399, are then forced to abandon one of their other favorite
> theories....the one that says: No bullet could emerge in almost
> "pristine" condition after having done the damage 399 supposedly did
> to JBC + JFK.
The question is irrelevant, since we have no idea what condition that
bullet was in.
>
> Did any of those four people who refused to positively I.D. 399 say
> that the bullet they DID see on 11/22/63 was mangled or smashed in any
> way whatsoever? No, they didn't, did they?
No, but that bullet was not the one that passed through JFK and JBC.
David, you need to do three things here - think, think, and then think.
>
> In fact, the main contention among CTers in this "It Was A Different
> Bullet" regard is that the nose of the bullet that CTers claim was
> found on the stretcher still had its POINTY nose intact (i.e., not
> smashed or mushroomed at all).
>
> This, in fact, is supposedly the only significant difference being
> cited by CTers to advance the notion that the "real" stretcher bullet
> was not CE399.
>
> So, one theory dearly adhered to by CTers for years must go overboard
> while they accept another (the theory that 399 is a "plant" or a
> "substituted" missile).
These are all non-sequitars, David.
>
>
> I'd also like to know the odds of Dr. Vincent Guinn, even via 1970s
> standards for such determinations, arriving at a solid "highly
> probable" declaration (HSCA Vol. 1; Pg. 505)....
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol1/html/HSCA_Vol1_025
> 5a.htm
Watch the videos David. I address Guinn and cite him directly.
Gotta take off for now. I will try to reply further, later today.
Robert Harris
tomnln
http://whokilledjfk.net/john_connally.htm
"Robert Harris" <reha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:reharris1-71C19...@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
David Von Pein
I had a look at one of your videos (the one with the obviously
"touched-up" autopsy picture of JFK's back, so that it looks like the
lower defect on the back was more like a "bullet hole", which it
wasn't....any idea who touched-up and drew in the "hole" on that
version of the photo on your video, Bob? Just curious)....
....And your micro-analyzing the positioning of JBC in the limo is
kind of laughable, since (as I've maintained and admitted for years)
we can never know to the square inch on his jump seat where he was
situated at the exact moment that Bullet 399 was plowing through the
men.
You think you can micro-manage the "10-degree" angle from the TSBD
down to a "2-degree" angle that you say leads perfectly back to Mr.
Braden's lair in the Dal-Tex. Well, IMO, that's just more CTer wishful-
thinking. And I think you know that's what it is, too, Bob. Because
such exactitude about the positioning of Connally is impossible to
attain.
I do, however, think Dale Myers has come the closest to perfection in
that kind of "alignment" regard, via his exacting studies of the limo
and the films and the Plaza, etc.
And Mr. Myers' analysis is perfect consistent (spot-on perfect in
fact) with a sniper firing that SBT shot from Oswald's Sniper's-Nest
window on the 6th Floor of the Book Depository.
And, lo and behold, coupled with such a computer-enhanced detailed
analysis of the SBT and the Z-Film, what is found underneath that very
window to which Myers has traced the SBT shot? --- Three spent rifle
hulls.
And how many shots were fired (according to over 76% of the
earwitnesses)? Exactly three. No more. No less.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/shots3.jpg
That's pretty remarkable "3 Shots From The TSBD" stuff IF, Bob Harris
is actually correct and if the SBT shot came from the Dal-Tex, don't
you think?
I find it amusing that people like Bob Harris can admit to the SBT
being ALMOST 100% true...but not QUITE true.
Bob's got a single bullet travelling through both Kennedy and Connally
(like any rational person who has studied the sum total of all the
evidence would have to realize did, in fact, occur on Nov. 22)....but
Bob can't quite go the whole nine yards with the SBT.
Instead of the WHOLE Warren Commission-endorsed AND HSCA-backed SBT
being true, Bob has to place his own unique wrinkle into the theory
and have the bullet coming from a different building (based on Bob's
dreamed-up and wholly-unprovable notion that the right-to-left angle
of the shot was only "2 degrees" and, therefore, must have come from
somewhere other than the Depository's sixth floor.
Bob Harris, of course, thinks he knows much more than the WC or the
HSCA experts, who determined that the two victims in the limo WERE
lined up properly to accept a single bullet from Oswald's gun in the
TSBD.
But Bob knows differently. He knows that it was only a "2-degree"
right-to-left angle through the victims. Bob knows more than all of
those pro-SBT guys.
How does he know more? Beats me. Just because he says so I guess.
A massive pile of evidence shows Robert Harris to be incorrect
regarding his belief about the SBT shot coming from the Dal-Tex. But
that won't stop him from dishing up that theory anyway.
But I will say this for Bob -- At least he knows (as do I) that a
single bullet went through both JFK & JBC at the same time on
11/22/63. He's a rare breed of CTer who will actually admit to that
blatantly-obvious fact.
Gil Jesus
If CE399 Didn't Hit John Connally...What Bullet Did?
It wasn't the one that the WC said was found by Tomlinson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA68-rlXVIY
It was the one that fell off the stretcher and was picked up by a
NURSE, who put it in her pocket.
http://pictures.aol.com/galleries/gjjmail/41602cXrkH0*ic1Lb0imwIK1Lz4l4RWJ8WN*v4xQp5Fd3Ig=/large/
also:
http://whokilledjfk.net/catch_of_the_day.htm
The one the WC never told us about.
The one they replaced with CE 399.
Wanna talk evidence tampering ?
Walt
> DO CTers THINK A DIFFERENT, UNMUTILATED, WHOLE BULLET FOUND ON A
> PARKLAND STRETCHER INJURED JOHN CONNALLY ON 11-22-63, INSTEAD OF
> CE399?
>
> (A CURIOUS NOTION, PER THE BELIEFS OF MOST CTers)......
>
> ==================================================
>
> Warren Commission Exhibit #399 remains the only whole bullet connected
> with JFK's murder and Connally's injuries.
>
> And we know, for a fact, that CE399 was fired from Oswald's rifle.
>
> And Oswald's rifle was found in a building overlooking the motorcade
> route.
>
> These are the raw facts surrounding Bullet 399.
>
> Now, to believe that CE399 was a "plant" of some kind is to believe
> that one or more individuals had a desire to remove from evidence the
> real stretcher bullet found by Darrell C. Tomlinson in Parkland
> Hospital, and replace it with a bullet that was fired from Oswald's
> gun.
Now, to believe that CE399 was a "plant" of some kind is to believe
that one or more individuals had a desire to remove from evidence the
real stretcher bullet found by Darrell C. Tomlinson in Parkland
Hospital, and replace it with a bullet that was fired from Oswald's
gun.
Page 103 of Dr Crenshaw's book Conspiracy of Silence.......
"Judge Ward is escorted to the door of Trauma Room #1 by Secret
Service Agent Kellerman. Viewing the President's body from the
doorway, he never enters the room. He notices a "plug" out of the
front of Kennedy's head, as well as the tracheostomy opening in his
throat. Kellerman requests Ward to release the body into Secret
Service custody. The judge replies," I will have to consult with
Dallas District Attorney Henry Wade."
Calling Wade, Judge Ward is told that in Wades opinion, a
"missle" ( bullet) must be taken into evidence and that Dallas Police
Chief Curry should be queried on this point. Wade in turn calls
Curry , who is with LBJ at Parkland hospital and only yards away from
Judge Ward, though in another room. Curry confirms Wades opinion and
Wade calls Judge Ward, and tells the Judge to go ahead and release the
body, because the bullet has already been taken into custody. Ward
with the telephone still on his ear motions Kellerman to go ahead and
take the casket bearing JFK's body to the waiting hearse.
Questions......
How did Wade know that there would be a bullet to be taken into
custody?? Wade nor anybody else could have known that the bullets had
not passed clear through JFK .......
Why did he assume that a bullet would still be in the body that could
only have been found after an autopsy??
Did Wade say that he'd have to check with Chief Curry because he knew
that Curry was acting as an intermediary between LBJ and himself?
YoHarvey
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
As, it went through JFK's head and exited to strike JBC in the right
rear shoulder, and I might add, after having created the wounds
through the chest and into the leg/thigh of JBC, has disappeared.
Apparently mad cow disease now afflicts humans.
tomnln
tomnln
"YoHarvey" <bail...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ababe2dd-bc03-44ac...@q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yo(Momma)Harvey wrote;
Apparently mad cow disease now afflicts humans.
Yo(Momma)Harvey is known to spread Syphilis
Yo(Momma)Harvey is known to spread Gonorrhea
Yo(Momma)Harvey is known to cough up 10 year old little boys
NOW! Yo(Momma)Harvey is known to spread Madd Cow Disease!
STILL Runnin from>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/PROVEN%20LIES.htm
http://whokilledjfk.net/CASE%20DISMISSED.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
robcap...@netscape.com
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/8f0d7264...
>
> >>> "David, the very first line of your essay is presumptuous and unverifiable. You have no idea how many bullets, whole or otherwise are connected to the crime." <<<
"Oh, so you've entered some additional whole bullets besides CE399
into the official record, huh? (That's news to me.)"
Of course no one is doing this, we are saying simply the bullet
presented as CE399 is NOT the one that was found on one of the
stretchers on 11/22/63 by Tomlinson at Parkland Hospital. Until some
official authorities have the guts to start investigating this crime
again there is NO official record to enter anything into.
"My quote is perfectly accurate and verifiable, since there IS, in
FACT, only one "whole bullet" in evidence in the JFK case. I wasn't
counting the first, missed shot, of course. I was referring to
bullets in "evidence" in the case, which I thought was quite obvious,
when I said this:
Warren Commission Exhibit #399 remains the only whole bullet connected
with JFK's murder and Connally's injuries."
No it isn't. It is the ONLY bullet presented to be connected to the
injuries of those two men as it lacked blood, tissue and thread
evidence to prove it was ever in either or both of those men.
> >>> "One thing I have never understood about you guys, is what you get out of deliberately closing your minds and assuming the rule of blind advocate. When people on either side of the debate do that, they become mental cripples, totally incapable of learning and researching." <<<
"Ruling out a lot of crazy, extraordinary, ridiculous, and wholly-
improbable cloak-&-dagger theories isn't what I'd call "closing [my]
mind" -- it's what I'd call: "Filtering out the absurd"."
IF you really did "filter out the absurd" you would NOT believe in the
official theory as it has the most insane theories of all. Everything
they presented is so far out if is uncompehensible how people can
believe it is true. Magic bullets, evidence left in a abundance by the
shooter (including my favorite - a wallet with their ID in it), no
prints anywhere on the weapons that supposedly did the killings, and
the crazy "Jet effect" Posner put forth. There are many more, but why
beat a dead horse?
"Unfortunately, in the JFK case, nothing is too "absurd" for many
"researchers"."
Obviously not as WC apology books keep coming out.
"(Just ask David Lifton and Brian David Andersen.) In fact, a whole
lot of conspiracists place the absurd on the very same playing field
with the sensible and reasonable non-absurd stuff."
Sure like Posner and Bugliosi's work make ANY sense at all.
"Can a murder case truly get solved when the absurd is treated the
same as the rational?"
Obviously NOT, as the WC and the HSCA proved this theory a long time
ago.
"Through the eyes of many JFK conspiracy theorists, apparently the
answer to that last question is a resounding "Yes"."
Maybe, but we have to be like this since NO investigation was ever
done, so we are trying to find out what happened on our own, you LNers
just support the most ridiculous thoeries going, and it is obvious to
most people the official thoery is just NOT possible in any way.
robcap...@netscape.com
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/8f0d7264...
>
> >>> "Governor Connally said the actual bullet from his thigh fell out in his room and was retrieved by a nurse?" <<<
>
> Source for that please.
>
> ("His room"??)
>
"Anyway, there is absolutely no official evidence or testimony that
indicates any "bullet" other than CE399 was recovered in connection
with Governor Connally's injuries."
Other bullets were found in Parkland whether you claim NOT to believe
it (wink-wink) or not, but this is why I don't get into the "what if"
game with you LNers. Who needs to prove there were other bullets when
your "evidence" lacks ANY credible scientific way to show it was the
bullet that caused seven wounds in JFK and JBC? Was there blood of
either victim on CE399? No. Was there tissue or other human matter of
either victim on CE399? No. Was there thread evidence from either
victim's clothes on CE399? No. This last one is acknowledged by
anyone in ballistics as being a non-possibility if the bullet passes
through a victim that is NOT naked! Your "evidence" proves nothing.
"To think otherwise is to believe in a massive cover-up of the real
evidence associated with the death of a President and the critical
wounding of a U.S. Governor.*
* = Oops...sorry. Most CTers do, of course, believe that my last
paragraph is a truism. How silly of me to cast doubt on the huge cover-
up operation that conspiracists endorse, a cover-up which must
certainly have involved a ton of people, from Parkland to Bethesda to
the DPD to the FBI to the White House to the WC to the HSCA to God
knows who else too. (Just plain silly. Even a cover-up one-tenth this
size is virtually impossible and silly to believe in.)"
Most of the people in Parkland were NOT part of the coverup and they
deserve a lot of credit for showing there was one to begin with. They
all stuck to the story of what they saw and would NOT let the WC bully
them into changing it, thus, we learned the first doctors/nurses to
see JFK (and they had way more experience with bullet wounds)
described wounds very different from the official version later on. IT
didn't have to be a huge conspiracy when you have ONE man leading and
controlling the ENTIRE investigation. You want it to be massive to
make it sound impossible.
"Anyhow, if Connally heard something "ping" to the floor in the
operating room or in the ER (whichever it was), how does that equate
to a "bullet" positively being recovered?
Answer: It doesn't."
You could have worked for the WC as you know better than the people
there! I guess someone told JBC they found a bullet (one other thing
to note here, Dr. Perry told Harold Weisberg he thought only a
fragment was in JBC's thigh) or a fragment in his thigh, or that it
fell out of his thigh. Why is this so hard to believe?
"Plus: It's also just flat-out stupid to think that a nurse picked up
a bullet that was connected to a Presidential murder and then that
bullet just vanished off the planet."
How did she know it was connected to JFK? I love how a guy who
proposes the SBT calls other much less unlikely scenarios "flat-out
stupid", don't you? Who in their right mind could foresee a scenario
where one bullet would enter two men, break two bones, cause 7 wounds
and come out virtually intact? She had no idea I would guess. I'm
sure it only vanished once it was given to the proper "authorities."
"Where did the bullet go? Who saw it? To whom was it given? Did
Connally SEE it? Answer to that last one: No."
IT is very important to keep in mind it probably was NOT a bullet, but
a fragment or a wound caused by a glancing hit. Here is what Dr.
Shires said:
Shires described how the surface wound in the skin was larger than the
penetrating path and soft tissue damage [6H 106]. The thigh wound
looked to Shires like a tangential hit [Ibid] meaning that a missile
had struck a glancing blow at a sharp angle to Connally's leg. Shires
was very insistent with Specter that the wound had to have been caused
by a tangential hit [6H 111]. He said, ". . . The skin wound was
either a tangential wound or . . . *a large fragment* had penetrated
or stopped in the skin and had subsequently fallen out "
If he thought it was a bullet he would have said so I think, so it was
probably a fragment, what does this do to your SBT now? If it was NOT
a bullet, you have NO SBT.
"Connally didn't have any idea whether a "bullet" fell out of him in
the ER/OR. Just as he had no idea which shot hit JFK. He couldn't have
known that detail, because he wasn't even looking at JFK when the
President was being shot with bullets. Talk about "blind" faith."
Connally was known to exaggerate on many things, but even if he
wasn't, it is second hand info. Let's go to the primary source, the
doctors at Parkland. Remember Dr. Perry? He was called for a consult
by Dr. Shires, this is what he told Harold Weisberg:
"Dr Perry told Weisberg that Shires called him in to give an opinion
of the thigh wound (Dr Perry was an expert on arterial injury).
Perry told Weisberg:
* The hole in Connally's thigh was too small for a bullet to
have caused it.
* The fragment next to the femur could not have been deposited
by a whole bullet that then backed out ["Post Mortem" Harold Weisberg
(self published, 1975)].
Specter avoided this and never questioned any PMH doctor about it."
Weisberg found out more about the thigh wound:
"The Warren Commission was sent more evidence about the wound to
Connally's thigh by the FBI. Another Parkland doctor, Dr. Jack
Reynolds, sent a note to the FBI describing the wound and with an X-
ray of Connally's left thigh attached [Ibid]. He described the thigh
wound as round, 1cm diameter and containing a roughly oval fragment,
3.5mm long, 1.3 mm wide lying on the axis of thigh. The note and X-ray
were forwarded to the Warren Commission, however, they chose not to
use this information. I expect that this was because it is difficult
to explain how a whole bullet could have caused the thigh wound,
deposited a fragment of this shape and then dropped out of the wound."
See, you like to mock CTers by saying, "What happend to the evidence
then?" Here is a prime example of how the WC INGNORED anything that
DID NOT show LHO as the guilty man.
> >>> "You did not say "in evidence", as you are saying in your newly-modified sentence. You said "connected", which could also apply to bullets that were not entered into evidence." <<<
"Yes, you're correct on this point, Robert. In my original statement,
which was written several months ago and repeated in this thread, I
should have said:
Warren Commission Exhibit #399 remains the only whole bullet IN
EVIDENCE connected with JFK's murder and Connally's injuries.
I keep forgetting that CTers love to wallow in minutiae and they love
chaff much more than wheat."
I love how someone uses the term "connected" and then blames the CTers
for not knowing this is the same as "in evidence", how funny! It is
all our fault.
"My original statement, though, is still quite true, of course...but,
yes, I suppose I could have added the words "in evidence" to clarify
it even more. But you probably knew what I meant anyway, you just want
to criticize via semantics."
It is all semantics when has been shown over and over the WC only put
into "evidence" things that made LHO look guilty. Of course if you
read the report and don't acutally think you'll come away with the
idea LHO did it, because it was prepared with this conclusion in mind.
> >>> "When are you going to talk about the fact that every one of the four men who handled and examined the stretcher bullet refused to confirm that it was CE-399, and that two of them specifically stated that it was shaped differently." <<<
"So, let's examine the CE399 alternatives:
If we're to believe that CE399 was not the bullet found on the
Parkland stretcher, then this would have to mean that a different,
completely-INTACT, WHOLE bullet did all of the bodily damage to John
Connally.**
** = Or do you want to add another layer of unsupportable stuff to the
"CT" pile by purporting that JBC was shot more than one time, which
cannot be supported by any of the evidence, particularly due to the
fact that not a single bullet or large fragment was plucked from JBC's
body?"
Why did this other bullet HAVE to be tied to JBC? We have Dr. Humes,
FBI agents O'Neill and Siebert, and Hoover ALL saying the president
had a bullet work out of his back wound during cardiac massage. Why
can't this other bullet be from JFK?
"CTers who believe that a "pointy"-tipped bullet hit Connally, in lieu
of 399, are then forced to abandon one of their other favorite
theories....the one that says: No bullet could emerge in almost
"pristine" condition after having done the damage 399 supposedly did
to JBC + JFK."
You are distorting the picture by NOT admitting four very credible
people said a bullet came OUT of JFK. The small entry in his back
(only about an inch) would explain why the bullet was NOT damaged much
at all as it hit no bone, or muscle.
"Did any of those four people who refused to positively I.D. 399 say
that the bullet they DID see on 11/22/63 was mangled or smashed in any
way whatsoever? No, they didn't, did they?"
So what does this prove? If it came out of JFK's shallow back wound
or was planted like the final CE399 of course it was not smashed. It
is just pure fantasy that it was on JBC's stretcher when found. Why?
All this would have had to happen:
1. It would have needed to remain in Connally's trousers when he
was removed from the limousine and not rolled out when he was lifted
onto a gurney
2. It would have needed to hide when Connally was stripped in
Trauma Room 2 (where it also had to avoid being bundled up with his
clothes)
3. It would have needed to dodge being noticed on the sheets during
examination
4. It would have needed to escape being wrapped in the sheets when
they were removed from stretcher
5. It would have needed to avoid simply sitting on top of the
stretcher and somehow wriggle under the mattress.
And CT theories are wacky? Go figure.
"In fact, the main contention among CTers in this "It Was A Different
Bullet" regard is that the nose of the bullet that CTers claim was
found on the stretcher still had its POINTY nose intact (i.e., not
smashed or mushroomed at all)."
Exactly, and it is consistent with a very shallow wound or a planted
bullet.
"This, in fact, is supposedly the only significant difference being
cited by CTers to advance the notion that the "real" stretcher bullet
was not CE399."
Only difference? ANY differnce make it NOT the same bullet, thus you
have established something funky going on. How thick is your head?
"So, one theory dearly adhered to by CTers for years must go overboard
while they accept another (the theory that 399 is a "plant" or a
"substituted" missile)."
This statement makes it sound like you proved something and you DID
NOT. Nice try.
"I'd also like to know the odds of Dr. Vincent Guinn, even via 1970s
standards for such determinations, arriving at a solid "highly
probable" declaration (HSCA Vol. 1; Pg. 505)....
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol1/html/HSCA...
....linking CE399 and Governor Connally's small wrist fragments via
NAA if 399 had really NOT been the original source for those bullet
fragments examined by Guinn.
Not so fast DVP, there is more from your beloved WC that will show how
ridiculous your SBT is. Have you ever seen this memo?
April 22, 1964
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
FROM: Melvin A. Eisenberg
Subject: Conference of April 14, 1964, to determine which
frames in the Zapruder movies show the impact of
the first and second bullets
If not, you might want to read it as it makes it very clear because:
1) It explains that, "...the bullet recovered from Governor Connally's
stretcher does not appear to have penetrated a wrist." This
observation probably came from the Edgewood Arsenal doctors and is
completely supportive of Dr Gregory.
2) It suggests that the facts better match a different theory, "...if he
[Connally] was hit by this (the first) bullet, he was probably also
hit by the second bullet"
Of the fifteen people there, including five doctors (three of whom
were experts in wounds) and two FBI photographic experts, only
Specter, the architect of the SBT, dissented from the three bullets,
three hits conclusion. The man either had guts or he knew that some
powerful people were on his side.
"Because a "pointy"-nosed bullet most certainly is NOT a WCC/MC type
bullet. I think even all rabid "Anybody But Oswald" CTers would agree
on that fact. Oswald's Carcano did not use pointy-tipped bullets."
Exactly, and the FACT you have NOT proven that the Carcano was in fact
the murder weapon I ask so what? Without proving the Carcano did the
deed ANY weapon is on the table, and many other types do use pointy-
tipped bullets.
"Therefore, per the CTers who like to advance the theory that 399
replaced a pointy bullet (which came out of a NON-OSWALD GUN) in the
official record, it sure was a rather amazing (and very fortunate)
coincidence for those individuals who were, per many CTers,
manipulating and tampering with the official evidence in this
Presidential murder case that Dr. Guinn was able to arrive at the
conclusion he did in 1978 by way of NAA."
His conclusions have been shown to be very flawed, he did NOT have all
of the samples as some were lost and some had lost weight from 1964.
Also, NAA has been showed to not be able to do what was claimed, thus
all the results he got are out the window.
"It was remarkably fortunate if you ask me. In fact, it's so
remarkable, that I don't think it's unreasonable in the least to label
such a theory about a "planted" or "switched" bullet as "TOTALLY
ABSURD"."
Of course you would, as you make a point of keeping yourself ignorant
of the facts and real evidence. It is easy to claim absurd things
that way.
"Another would-be miraculous fact that makes any such "planted" theory
about Bullet 399 fall into the "Absurd" drawer is the fact that
Governor Connally (amazingly for the supposed bullet-planters) had
virtually no bullet lead recovered from his body.
No more absurd or ridiculous than moving and changing all FIVE wounds
to JBC to make the SBT work. Your side takes the cake.
"Yes, Connally had fragments in his wrist (deposited by the butt end
of CE399, perfectly mirroring that bullet's damage and its approximate
missing amount of metal)....but he had no whole bullets or large
fragments in his body after the shooting at all."
It depends what you call large. I call large anything bigger than what
was missing from the magic bullet, and the wrist alone had more in
weight in it than the bullet had missing! How does that work?
"And yet the alleged bullet-planters/switchers took the chance of
placing a whole bullet like 399 into the record, instead of planting a
beat-up missile with much of its mass missing. Quite a risk.***
*** = It was quite a risk, that is, if you want to believe in a
"planted" 399 specifically (as purported by people like Oliver Stone,
who, in his 1991 movie, has Jack Ruby himself planting 399 on a
stretcher...he wasn't "subbing" one bullet for a similar-looking whole
one)."
It is NOT a risk at all when the real bullets and or fragments could
have shown they were not from alleged murder weapon, what would they
have done then?
"Therefore, per Stone's/Garrison's crazy theory, the plotters are in
the dark as to the amount of bullet material still in the victims as
of the time of Ruby's planting 399 at Parkland."
Not in the least bit, the amount did NOT matter, what mattered was it
was NOT from the Carcano.
"It's just silly as all get out to believe in such a Stone-like
scenario. Especially when so much OTHER stuff will already hang their
proverbial "patsy" named Oswald, even WITHOUT planting CE399 in the
hospital -- e.g., LHO's rifle, the paper bag, his prints all over the
place where the TSBD sniper was located, the Tippit murder, the
backyard pictures (also thought to be the product of the
"conspirators"), etc. to near infinity."
Sure, and you have shown us all this other "evidence" right? You are
all talk.
"Bottom line fact still is today what it was in 1963 --- CE399 was
determined by BOTH major Government inquiries (WC & HSCA) to have been
the "SBT" bullet which went through both John Kennedy and John
Connally on November 22, 1963."
And this two proclamations won't even buy a bus transfer. They are
worthless.
"That is a fact of historical record. If conspiracists don't like that
historical fact, maybe they should go about the awesome task of
PROVING THAT THE WC's AND THE HSCA's IDENTICAL DETERMINATIONS
REGARDING CE399 ARE PURE FICTION."
NOTHING is a historical fact unless the majority agree on it, and the
majority of Americans do NOT agree with you.
"To date, such "proof" from the "planted/switched" camp has yet to
surface."
Who needs it to, you have no proof CE399 was EVER in JFK and JBC.
Sam Brown
"tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote in message news:hy8ij.17930$3b7....@newsfe23.lga...
HAHAHAHAHAHouston; "We Have A PROBLEM"(There are TOO many Bullets)
AHA!!! WHAT IF I TOLD YOU.........................THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH WOUNDS?????? WHAT WOULD YOU DO THEN INSPECTER CLOUSEAU???? You crazy old bastard!
Where's the one that fell on the floor in JBC's operating Room?
Up LHO's butt crack.
Where's the "Pointed" one found by Tomlinson?
I sold it.
Where's the one the Dr's "EXTRACTED from JBC's Leg"?
They didnt see the "kneed" to keep it.
SEND IN THE "CLEANING CREW"
OK Defects, we're ready for you.
tomnln
TOO MANY BULLETS
Either they LIED about the Source of CE-399.......
ORRRRRRRRRR,
There are THREE (3) Missing Bullets from Evidence.
http://whokilledjfk.net/john_connally.htm
You can bet the farm the LN's won't touch this one.
These kinda people Devour their own.
They'll claim JBC is a Liar.
They'll claim Nellie is a Liar.
They'll claim O. P. Wright is a Liar.
"robcap...@netscape.com" <robc...@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:f0685121-7b58-4366...@l32g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
You want a source?
http://whokilledjfk.net/john_connally.htm
It's all right there.
Source JBC
Source Nellie Connally
Source O.P. Wright
You're Welcome
"robcap...@netscape.com" <robc...@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:654041c1-4425-4a7d...@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
"Sam Brown" <samjb...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:4789961a$0$10313$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Sam Brown
"tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote in message news:7Bhij.8926$OC1....@newsfe20.lga...
They are ,ALL supposedly from the Same Source you dumb ABOMINATION;( I Knew you weren't familiar with the evidence/testrimony)
I knew you wouldn't realize I was taking the piss out of you Toothless. Yawn. I'm bored with you. Shape up old man. Defects is outcrazying you on a regular basis these days.
Bud
By all means Harris, produce other whole bullets you can connect to
the injuries on these men.
> > >>> "One thing I have never understood about you guys, is what you get out of
> > >>> deliberately closing your minds and assuming the rule of blind advocate.
> > >>> When people on either side of the debate do that, they become mental
> > >>> cripples, totally incapable of learning and researching." <<<
> >
> >
> > Ruling out a lot of crazy, extraordinary, ridiculous, and wholly-
> > improbable cloak-&-dagger theories isn't what I'd call "closing [my]
> > mind" -- it's what I'd call: "Filtering out the absurd".
>
> Why is it crazy, to accept the fact that two civilians and two secret
> service agents unanimously, refused to sign off on CE-399 as the same
> bullet they handled and examined at Parkland?
What the hell does "sign off on"mean? Not being able to say
positively that CE399 is the bullet they saw isn`t the same as saying
CE399 could not be the bullet they saw. Which of the four positively
asserted that CE399 could not be the bullet they saw or handled?
> Why is it ridiculous, to accept the word of Governor Connally, who
> clearly stated that the bullet fell out of his thigh in his room and was
> retrieved by a nurse?
You don`t know? He is near mortally wounded and probably in shock,
but hears a bullet strike the floor, and sees a nurse retrieve it.
Problems with this is it is doubtful there would be only one person
attending the governor of the state in the room, its doubtful a bullet
hitting the hard floor would stay right there, it`s doubtful the nurse
would hold up the bullet for him to see and announce "Lookie here, Mr
Seriously Wounded Govenor, heres that bullet that struck you here."
Could have been any metal object, cuff link, tie clip, something from
his pockets (change?), a medical instrument, or nothing at all in his
state.
But, you`d think that when Connally`s book was published, the
conspiracy authors would go running to find this nurse, as
corroboration of Connally`s story would tumble the hated WC`s
findings. There would likely be at least five people in the room, a
lone nurse couldn`t handle a grown man, plus anyone the nurse might
tell about recovering a bullet. So, the point is, why are conspiracy
kooks so unable to ever show these things? They like to act as if
these things are completed trips all by themselves, without
corroboration or follow-up. I suspect they put little effort into
investigating these things because they really know there is nothing
there, and these things fit well in the "suspicious" category the way
they are (the kook game only to find information that disputes the
official findings, thus justifying thier suspicions). They can just
make the assumption the the uber-effecient conspiracy swooped in and
removed all trace of the this event, nurse, bullet and all.
> FIVE witnesses put the lie to the FBI, David.
>
> ZERO witnesses supported them.
>
> Only a total crackpot would deny the official record, when it is this
> clear and unanimous. This is not even a close call.
Only when you misrepresent the information. If you looked at the
information in it`s proper context, it wouldn`t be as you are
attempting to portray it.
> You are simply in denial, and THAT is what is truly insane.
>
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, in the JFK case, nothing is too "absurd" for many
> > "researchers". (Just ask David Lifton and Brian David Andersen.) In
> > fact, a whole lot of conspiracists place the absurd on the very same
> > playing field with the sensible and reasonable non-absurd stuff.
>
> There are lots of crackpot theories floating around, on the JFK case and
> a hundred other issues. But what does that have to do with anything?
That kooks such as yourself have been busy churning out a bunch of
crap on this issue might be irrelevant to this discussion, but should
be often pointed out nonetheless.
> If I claim tomorrow that JFK was shot from a flying saucer, exactly how
> much does that alter the chances that this was a conspiracy?
Good point. We should wait for the CT to put a conspriacy theory on
the table for consideration, instead of following them as they chase
thier tails on a thousand different issues.
> But let me tell you what the crackpot theories DO accomplish.
>
> They mislead you into thinking that since their theories are goofy, ALL
> theories that disagree with you are goofy.
It`s the contortions that the kooks go into to deny Oswald`s guilt
that exposes them as being driven by their own desires.
> And that is one terrible fallacy, David. It will turn you into the
> mirror image of the nutty people you oppose.
<snicker> Touching to see Harris` concern that DVP might turn into
a kook. In a room occupied by so many drunks, he is worrying that a
tea-totaller fall off the wagon.
Robert Harris
You are one miserable piece of human trash, David.
You KNOW damned well, that image wasn't altered. It came straight from
mcadams website. And the reason even the others nutters in aaj won't
support you, is that it is way too easy for anyone to look at it and
zoom in to see EXACTLY what is they see in my video.
This is my AAJ response, which mcadams has been sitting on for almost
two days:
ROFLMAO!!
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/back.jpg
There is the image, abrasion ring and all, straight out of my con artist
partner's website!
Zoom in on the image a bit, and you find a perfect match for what you
see in my video, minus some resolution deterioration caused by Youtube
compression.
Rather than make these ugly accusations, which you know are not true,
why don't you take a shot at explaining how that swollen ring around the
"dried blood", came to be?
And why don't you explain to us, why the ruler is clearly angled, to
measure that "dried blood" rather than your hole?
Robert Harris
In article
<5ed26506-08b0-43e7...@v29g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "Why don't you look at my vids and see where I am coming from, rather
> >>> than have to keep guessing?" <<<
>
>
> I had a look at one of your videos (the one with the obviously
> "touched-up" autopsy picture of JFK's back, so that it looks like the
> lower defect on the back was more like a "bullet hole", which it
> wasn't....any idea who touched-up and drew in the "hole" on that
> version of the photo on your video, Bob? Just curious)....
>
> ....And your micro-analyzing the positioning of JBC in the limo is
> kind of laughable, since (as I've maintained and admitted for years)
> we can never know to the square inch on his jump seat he was situated
> at the exact moment that Bullet 399 was plowing through the men.
>
> You think you can micro-manage the "10-degree" angle from the TSBD
> down to a "2-degree" angle that you say leads perfectly back to Mr.
> Braden's lair in the Dal-Tex. Well, IMO, that's just more CTer wishful-
> thinking. (And I think you know that's what it is, too, Bob. Because
> such exactitude about the positioning of Connally is impossible to
> attain.
>
> I do, however, think Dale Myers has come the closest to perfection in
> that kind of "alignment" regard, via his exacting studies of the limo
> and the films and the body draft of the limo, etc.
>
> And Mr. Myers' analysis is perfect consistent (spot-on perfect in
> fact) with a sniper firing that SBT shot from Oswald's Sniper's-Nest
> window on the 6th Floor of the Book Depository.
>
> And, lo and behold, coupled with such a computer-enhanced detailed
> analysis of the SBT and the Z-Film, what is found underneath that very
> window to which Myers has traced the SBT shot back to? --- Three spent
> rifle hulls.
>
> And how many shots were fired (according to over 76% of the
> earwitnesses)? Exactly three. No more. No less.
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/shots3.jpg
>
> That's pretty remarkable "3 Shots From The TSBD" stuff IF, in fact Bob
> Harris is correct and the SBT shot came from the Dal-Tex, don't you
> think?
>
>
> I find it amusing that people like Bob Harris can admit to the SBT
> being ALMOST 100% true...but not QUITE true.
>
> Bob's got a single bullet travelling through both Kennedy and Connally
> (like any rational person who has studied the sum total of all the
> evidence would have to realize did, in fact, occur on Nov. 22)....but
> Bob can't quite go the whole nine yards with the SBT.
>
> Instead of the WHOLE Warren Commission-endorsed AND HSCA-backed SBT
> being true, Bob has to place his own unique wrinkle into the theory
> and have the bullet coming from a different building (based on Bob's
> dreamed-up and wholly-unprovable notion that the right-to-left angle
> of the shot was only "2 degrees" and, therefore, must have come from
> somewhere other than the Depository's sixth floor.
>
> Bob Harris, of course, thinks he knows much more than the WC or the
> HSCA experts, who determined that the two victims in the limo WERE
> lined up properly to accept a single bullet from Oswald's gun in the
> TSBD.
>
>
> But Bob knows differently. He knows that it was only a "2-degree"
> right-to-left angle through the victims. Bob knows more than all of
> those pro-SBT guys.
>
> How does he know more? Beats me. Just because he says so I guess.
>
> A massive pile of evidence shows Robert Harris to be incorrect about
Robert Harris
You are one miserable piece of human trash, David.
You KNOW damned well, that image wasn't altered. It came straight from
mcadams website. And the reason even the others nutters in aaj won't
support you, is that it is way too easy for anyone to look at it and
zoom in to see EXACTLY what is they see in my video.
This is my AAJ response, which mcadams has been sitting on for almost
two days:
ROFLMAO!!
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/back.jpg
There is the image, abrasion ring and all, straight out of my con artist
partner's website!
Zoom in on the image a bit, and you find a perfect match for what you
see in my video, minus some resolution deterioration caused by Youtube
compression.
Rather than make these ugly accusations, which you know are not true,
why don't you take a shot at explaining how that swollen ring around the
"dried blood", came to be?
And why don't you explain to us, why the ruler is clearly angled, to
measure that "dried blood" rather than your hole?
Robert Harris
In article
<5ed26506-08b0-43e7...@v29g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "Why don't you look at my vids and see where I am coming from, rather
> >>> than have to keep guessing?" <<<
>
>
> I had a look at one of your videos (the one with the obviously
> "touched-up" autopsy picture of JFK's back, so that it looks like the
> lower defect on the back was more like a "bullet hole", which it
> wasn't....any idea who touched-up and drew in the "hole" on that
> version of the photo on your video, Bob? Just curious)....
>
> ....And your micro-analyzing the positioning of JBC in the limo is
> kind of laughable, since (as I've maintained and admitted for years)
> we can never know to the square inch on his jump seat he was situated
> at the exact moment that Bullet 399 was plowing through the men.
>
> You think you can micro-manage the "10-degree" angle from the TSBD
> down to a "2-degree" angle that you say leads perfectly back to Mr.
> Braden's lair in the Dal-Tex. Well, IMO, that's just more CTer wishful-
> thinking. (And I think you know that's what it is, too, Bob. Because
> such exactitude about the positioning of Connally is impossible to
> attain.
>
> I do, however, think Dale Myers has come the closest to perfection in
> that kind of "alignment" regard, via his exacting studies of the limo
> and the films and the body draft of the limo, etc.
>
> And Mr. Myers' analysis is perfect consistent (spot-on perfect in
> fact) with a sniper firing that SBT shot from Oswald's Sniper's-Nest
> window on the 6th Floor of the Book Depository.
>
> And, lo and behold, coupled with such a computer-enhanced detailed
> analysis of the SBT and the Z-Film, what is found underneath that very
> window to which Myers has traced the SBT shot back to? --- Three spent
> rifle hulls.
>
> And how many shots were fired (according to over 76% of the
> earwitnesses)? Exactly three. No more. No less.
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/shots3.jpg
>
> That's pretty remarkable "3 Shots From The TSBD" stuff IF, in fact Bob
> Harris is correct and the SBT shot came from the Dal-Tex, don't you
> think?
>
>
> I find it amusing that people like Bob Harris can admit to the SBT
> being ALMOST 100% true...but not QUITE true.
>
> Bob's got a single bullet travelling through both Kennedy and Connally
> (like any rational person who has studied the sum total of all the
> evidence would have to realize did, in fact, occur on Nov. 22)....but
> Bob can't quite go the whole nine yards with the SBT.
>
> Instead of the WHOLE Warren Commission-endorsed AND HSCA-backed SBT
> being true, Bob has to place his own unique wrinkle into the theory
> and have the bullet coming from a different building (based on Bob's
> dreamed-up and wholly-unprovable notion that the right-to-left angle
> of the shot was only "2 degrees" and, therefore, must have come from
> somewhere other than the Depository's sixth floor.
>
> Bob Harris, of course, thinks he knows much more than the WC or the
> HSCA experts, who determined that the two victims in the limo WERE
> lined up properly to accept a single bullet from Oswald's gun in the
> TSBD.
>
>
> But Bob knows differently. He knows that it was only a "2-degree"
> right-to-left angle through the victims. Bob knows more than all of
> those pro-SBT guys.
>
> How does he know more? Beats me. Just because he says so I guess.
>
> A massive pile of evidence shows Robert Harris to be incorrect about
David Von Pein
Gee, thanks Robert.
I'm getting roasted by Bobby even after I posted an apology half-a-day
ago via the post below (perhaps Bob didn't see this yet, and that's
why I'm a "piece of human trash", huh?)......
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/f92226e96c68fbb6
So, now, Bob...perhaps you can answer my question:
Was JFK shot in the back TWICE on Nov. 22nd?
If not, your argument about the "lower defect" being a bullet hole has
to be wrong, now doesn't it? (That's because the TOP defect positively
has a discernible abrasion "collar" and all the characteristics of a
bullet hole.) .....
http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/autopsy_slideshow/images/BE5_HI.jpg
http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/autopsy_slideshow/images/BE5A-CORRECT.jpg
And I still maintain that the lower blood stain on JFK's back in the
McAdams (darker) image below looks different than the two Lancer
images posted above. Maybe the darker image hasn't been "touched-up"
in some way, but it does look different. Period. The reason for the
difference? -- Beats me. ~shrug~ ....
tomnln
witnesses were Lying! ! !
http://whokilledjfk.net/john_connally.htm
"Bud" <sirs...@fast.net> wrote in message
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