Mark Lane and the KGB
This Machine Kills Fascists
the British with documentation showing that Mark Lane received money from
the KGB through an intermediary and advice from the KGB writer Genrikh
Borovik and other Soviet journalists the KGB trusted.
Vasili Mitrokhin and the Cambridge historian Christopher Andrew wrote about
Mark Lane in a book called The Sword and Shield, and you can read what they
wrote on pages 227-228. The passage from 225-230 details the conspiracy
theories of the KGB and Mark Lane about the Kennedy murder.
According to Mitrokhin and Andrew, the KGB believed that President Kennedy
had been killed by right-wingers:
The choice of Oswald as Kennedy's assassin, the KGB believed, was intended
to divert public attention from the racist oil magnates and make the
assassination appear to be a Communist plot (225).
Mitrokhin and Andrew also detail Mark Lane's conspiracy theory:
Together with student assistants and other volunteers, Lane founded the
Citizens' Committee of Inquiry in a small office on lower Fifth Avenue and
rented a small theater at which, each evening for several months, he gave
what became known as "The Speech," updating the development of his
conspiracy theory. "This alternative method of dissent was required," writes
Lane, "because not a single network radio or television program permitted
the broadcast of a word of divergence from the official view." Though it
dared not take the risk of contacting Lane directly, the New York residency
sent him 1,500 dollars to help finance his research through the intermediary
of a close friend whom Lane's KGB file identifies only as a trusted contact.
While Lane was not told the source of the money, the residency suspected
that he might have guessed where it came from; it was also concerned that
the secret subsidy might be discovered by the FBI.
The same intermediary provided 500 dollars to pay for a trip by Lane to
Europe in 1964. While there, Lane asked to visit Moscow in order to discuss
some of the material he had found. The Centre regretfully concluded that
inviting him to Russia would reveal its hand in too blatant a way and his
proposed trip was "tactfully postponed." Trusted contacts were, however,
selected from among Soviet journalists to encourage him in his research.
Among them was the KGB agent Genrikh Borovik, who later maintained regular
contact with Lane. Lane's Rush to Judgment, published in 1966, alleged
complicity at the highest levels of government in the Kennedy assassination.
It was top of that year's hardback bestseller best and went on to become the
best-selling paperback of 1967, as well as enjoying what Lane modestly
describes as enormous success around the world" and causing "a dramatic
change in public perception" of the assassination.
During the late 1960s and early 1970s, Lane's success was less enormous. The
most popular books on the assassination were now those that exposed some of
the excesses of the conspiracy theorists." CPUSA leaders who visited Moscow
in 1971, though describing Rush to Judgment as "advantageous to the
Communists," claimed that Lane's main motive was his own self-aggrandizement
(pp. 227-228).
On page 233, The Sword and Shield provides the KGB's account of its efforts
to blame the Jonestown tragedy on the CIA, although remarkably the book
fails to mention that Mark Lane was the lawyer for Jonestown.
In 1978, a publication called the Covert Action Information Bulletin was
founded "on the initiative of the KGB." The CIA defector Philip Agee and a
group of supporters were the publishers (Sword and Shield. pp. 232-233).
Mitrokhin and Andrew explain:
The Centre [KGB] assembled a task force of personnel from Service A and
Directorate K...to keep the Covert Action Information Bulletin supplied with
material designed to compromise the CIA...[The] task force, however, became
increasingly concerned about the difficulty of finding enough secret
material for the Bulletin, and recommended that it look harder for more
open-source material...which could be blamed on the CIA---among them the
Jonestown massacre in Guyana, when 900 members of the American religious
cult the "People's Temple" had been persuaded to commit mass suicide or had
been murdered (233).
Much of the information Mitrokhin brought out from the KGB files is still
classified, so I don't know if this book gives a full account of Mark Lane's
activities according to the KGB.
In his article "Documenting the KGB," Stephen Stromberg explains:
According to the FBI, Mitrokhin’s documents are 'the most complete and
extensive intelligence ever received from any source.' Perhaps the most
significant prize for the Western intelligence community are the documents
that contain the real names and identities of thousands of foreign agents
the KGB recruited and kept under deep cover abroad—a rosetta stone for the
spy world...Many of the documents remain classified [Full text].
Mark Lane also published a book called Coversations with Americans that told
half-truths and totally fabricated stories about American war crimes in
Vietnam.
http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2008/02/more-mark-lane-conspiracy-theories.html
Ben Holmes
book "Rush to Judgment", and label it untrue.
Why is it so difficult for LNT'ers to do this? Bill Clarke, for example, one of
the latest in the 'bash Mark Lane' club - couldn't give even a single example,
and admitted that he'd never even read the book.
We present the lies of Posner, of Bugliosi, etc... but not a *SINGLE* LNT'er is
willing to step up the plate and point out a "lie" of Mark Lane's.
Why is that?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com
timstter
> In article <4e93a...@news.x-privat.org>, This Machine Kills Fascists says...
>
> I keep asking, and *NO-ONE* will dare to post even a single sentence from the
> book "Rush to Judgment", and label it untrue.
>
> Why is it so difficult for LNT'ers to do this? Bill Clarke, for example, one of
> the latest in the 'bash Mark Lane' club - couldn't give even a single example,
> and admitted that he'd never even read the book.
>
> We present the lies of Posner, of Bugliosi, etc... but not a *SINGLE* LNT'er is
> willing to step up the plate and point out a "lie" of Mark Lane's.
>
> Why is that?
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ben Holmes
> Learn to Make Money with a Website -http://www.burningknife.com
LOL! What a LIAR you are, Holmes!
You even participated in the following thread yourself!:
You are nothing but a BLATANT misinformationist, Benny, as is your
lying-by-omission hero, Mark Lane.
Informative Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
This Machine Kills Fascists
"timstter" wrote in message
news:a923c5ff-8995-4cac...@20g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> >According to the FBI, Mitrokhin�s documents are 'the most complete and
> >extensive intelligence ever received from any source.' Perhaps the most
> >significant prize for the Western intelligence community are the
> >documents
> >that contain the real names and identities of thousands of foreign agents
> >the KGB recruited and kept under deep cover abroad�a rosetta stone for
Informative Regards,
Lane has a long and continuous history of mendacity. Like most lawyers he
is careful not to tell outright lies but "interprets" the facts in elastic
manner, altering them to suit his purposes. JFK, the Winter Solders
hearings, MLK, Jonestown, and his "defense" of the Holocaust deniers at the
Institute for Historical Review... it's a long and sleazy history. The
political Left in America washed their hands of Lane after his Jonestown
caper and the rest of America would be wise to do the same.
Ben Holmes
>> >significant prize for the Western intelligence community are the
>> >documents
>> >that contain the real names and identities of thousands of foreign agents
Rather amusing that the trolls keep changing names...
Bill Clarke
timstter says...
>
>On Oct 11, 2:22=A0pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
>> In article <4e93a...@news.x-privat.org>, This Machine Kills Fascists says=
>...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >When the Soviet regime ended, the KGB archivist Vasili Mitrokhin defecte=
>d to
>> >the British with documentation showing that Mark Lane received money fro=
>m
>> >the KGB through an intermediary and advice from the KGB writer Genrikh
>> >Borovik and other Soviet journalists the KGB trusted.
>>
>out
>> >Mark Lane in a book called The Sword and Shield, and you can read what t=
>hey
>> >wrote on pages 227-228. The passage from 225-230 details the conspiracy
>> >theories of the KGB and Mark Lane about the Kennedy murder.
>>
>dy
>> >had been killed by right-wingers:
>>
>ed
>> >to divert public attention from the racist oil magnates and make the
>> >assassination appear to be a Communist plot (225).
>>
>> >Mitrokhin and Andrew also detail Mark Lane's conspiracy theory:
>>
>> >Together with student assistants and other volunteers, Lane founded the
>nd
>> >rented a small theater at which, each evening for several months, he gav=
>e
>> >what became known as "The Speech," updating the development of his
>ites
>> >Lane, "because not a single network radio or television program permitte=
>d
>> >the broadcast of a word of divergence from the official view." Though it
>ncy
>> >sent him 1,500 dollars to help finance his research through the intermed=
>iary
>> >of a close friend whom Lane's KGB file identifies only as a trusted cont=
>act.
>> >While Lane was not told the source of the money, the residency suspected
>t
>> >the secret subsidy might be discovered by the FBI.
>>
>> >The same intermediary provided 500 dollars to pay for a trip by Lane to
>uss
>> >some of the material he had found. The Centre regretfully concluded that
>s
>> >proposed trip was "tactfully postponed." Trusted contacts were, however,
>> >selected from among Soviet journalists to encourage him in his research.
>>
>ar
>> >contact with Lane. Lane's Rush to Judgment, published in 1966, alleged
>ion.
>> >It was top of that year's hardback bestseller best and went on to become=
> the
>> >best-selling paperback of 1967, as well as enjoying what Lane modestly
>> >describes as enormous success around the world" and causing "a dramatic
>> >change in public perception" of the assassination.
>>
> The
>> >most popular books on the assassination were now those that exposed some=
> of
>> >the excesses of the conspiracy theorists." CPUSA leaders who visited Mos=
>cow
>> >in 1971, though describing Rush to Judgment as "advantageous to the
>ment
>> >(pp. 227-228).
>>
>> >On page 233, The Sword and Shield provides the KGB's account of its effo=
>rts
>> >to blame the Jonestown tragedy on the CIA, although remarkably the book
>> >fails to mention that Mark Lane was the lawyer for Jonestown.
>>
>> >In 1978, a publication called the Covert Action Information Bulletin was
> a
>> >group of supporters were the publishers (Sword and Shield. pp. 232-233).
>>
>> >Mitrokhin and Andrew explain:
>>
>> >The Centre [KGB] assembled a task force of personnel from Service A and
>with
>> >material designed to compromise the CIA...[The] task force, however, bec=
>ame
>> >increasingly concerned about the difficulty of finding enough secret
>> >material for the Bulletin, and recommended that it look harder for more
>> >open-source material...which could be blamed on the CIA---among them the
>> >Jonestown massacre in Guyana, when 900 members of the American religious
>had
>> >been murdered (233).
>>
>> >Much of the information Mitrokhin brought out from the KGB files is stil=
>l
>> >classified, so I don't know if this book gives a full account of Mark La=
>ne's
>> >activities according to the KGB.
>>
>> >In his article "Documenting the KGB," Stephen Stromberg explains:
>>
>> >extensive intelligence ever received from any source.' Perhaps the most
>ts
>> >that contain the real names and identities of thousands of foreign agent=
>s
>> >the KGB recruited and kept under deep cover abroad=97a rosetta stone for=
> the
>> >spy world...Many of the documents remain classified [Full text].
>told
>> >half-truths and totally fabricated stories about American war crimes in
>> >Vietnam.
>>
>> >http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2008/02/more-mark-lane-conspira...
>>
> the
>> book "Rush to Judgment", and label it untrue.
>>
>one of
>> the latest in the 'bash Mark Lane' club - couldn't give even a single exa=
>mple,
>> and admitted that he'd never even read the book.
>>
>'er is
>> willing to step up the plate and point out a "lie" of Mark Lane's.
>>
>> Why is that?
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Ben Holmes
>> Learn to Make Money with a Website -http://www.burningknife.com
>
>LOL! What a LIAR you are, Holmes!
>
>You even participated in the following thread yourself!:
>
>5d4dce5ef/ae41987b8b03bd9f?lnk=3Dgst&q=3Dlying+by+omission+the+mark+lane+wa=
>y#ae41987b8b03bd9f
>
>You are nothing but a BLATANT misinformationist, Benny, as is your
>lying-by-omission hero, Mark Lane.
>
>Informative Regards,
>
>Tim Brennan
>Sydney, Australia
>*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
BINGO!
Bill Clarke
Bill Clarke
his horseshit.
Bill Clarke
Ben Holmes
Tell me Bill, can you *QUOTE* which page in Rush to Judgment this alleged "lie"
is contained on?
Or will you run away again as usual...
Ben Holmes
The proof is that you'll refuse to provide the citation... you know, "Rush to
Judgment", page ???
Bill Clarke
>Tell me Bill, can you *QUOTE* which page in Rush to Judgment this alleged "lie"
>is contained on?
Americans?
>Or will you run away again as usual...
Vietnam policy was the cause of his death. You are.
Bill Clarke
Bill Clarke
Your promiscuous use of the words liar and lying might really mean something if
you could document your claim. But you can�t. So you really don�t mean much.
>The proof is that you'll refuse to provide the citation... you know, "Rush to
>Judgment", page ???
You can stick Rush up your lying ass. You keep trying to make this singularly
about Rush to Judgment but Lane is so much more than Rush. Have you read only
the one book of Lane�s? Do you know anything about Lane except Rush?
Bill Clarke
Walt
> In article <j71js50...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <j71jos0...@drn.newsguy.com>, Bill Clarke says...
>
> >>In article <j71gn60...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>
> >>>In article <4e942...@news.x-privat.org>, This Machine Kills Fascists says...
> >>>>> >significant prize for the Western intelligence community are the
> >>>>> >documents
> >>>>> >that contain the real names and identities of thousands of foreign agents
> >>>>You are nothing but a BLATANT misinformationist, Benny, as is your
> >>>>lying-by-omission hero, Mark Lane.
>
> >>>>Informative Regards,
>
> >>>>Tim Brennan
> >>>>Sydney, Australia
> >>>>*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> >>>>Lane has a long and continuous history of mendacity. Like most lawyers he
> >>>>is careful not to tell outright lies but "interprets" the facts in elastic
> >>>>manner, altering them to suit his purposes. JFK, the Winter Solders
> >>>>hearings, MLK, Jonestown, and his "defense" of the Holocaust deniers at the
> >>>>Institute for Historical Review... it's a long and sleazy history. The
> >>>>political Left in America washed their hands of Lane after his Jonestown
> >>>>caper and the rest of America would be wise to do the same.
>
> >>>Ah! Another 'nom de plume' to killfile.
>
> >>>Rather amusing that the trolls keep changing names...
>
> >>Bill Clarke
>
> >You're lying again, Bill.
>
> Your promiscuous use of the words liar and lying might really mean something if
> >The proof is that you'll refuse to provide the citation... you know, "Rush to
> >Judgment", page ???
>
> You can stick Rush up your lying ass. You keep trying to make this singularly
> about Rush to Judgment but Lane is so much more than Rush. Have you read only
>
> Bill Clarke- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Bill, It's rumored that Mark Lane was / is a communist.... I ask
you.....SO WHAT?
The truth is the truth no matter whether it's uttered by a Capitalist,
a Communist, a Facsist. A Catholic, a Protestant, a Republican or a
Democrat........
As a young lawyer Mark Lane may have had dollar signs in his eyes when
he first got involved with investigating the murder of President
Kennedy. Perhaps he thought that fame and fortune was in the future
when he took up the role of challenging the prosecution ( LBJ's Warren
Commission) in their charges against Lee Oswald. In his quest for
gathering facts he soon learned that the prosecution had no case, but
he couldn't win because he was playing with a "stacked deck". J Egar
Hoover ruined many good men by painting them as "communists", or
homosexuals, or womanizers, or any of the things that we were taught
to abhor back in the fifties and sixties.
I'd suggest that you keep in mind that Mark Lane was Hoovers
enemy.............
aeffects
> In article <j71jp70...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <j71jh80...@drn.newsguy.com>, Bill Clarke says...
>
> >>In article <a923c5ff-8995-4cac-b4d3-1cba503cd...@20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> >>>5d4dce5ef/ae41987b8b03bd9f?lnk=3Dgst&q=3Dlying+by+omission+the+mark+lane+wa=
> >>>y#ae41987b8b03bd9f
>
> >>>You are nothing but a BLATANT misinformationist, Benny, as is your
> >>>lying-by-omission hero, Mark Lane.
>
> >>>Informative Regards,
>
> >>>Tim Brennan
> >>>Sydney, Australia
> >>>*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> >>BINGO!
>
> >>Bill Clarke
>
> >It's amusing that a coward associates himself with a lie.
>
> What is amusing is some REMF calling me a coward.
if this is the best ya got Bill, you rate just a wee bit above the
trolls who inhabit alt.vietnam.war... ya got hammered here Bill--
ignorance the cause -- when it comes to the evidence, testimony,
exhibits, films-photos concerning this case ya have to be able to
cross those *t's* and dot the *i's*. That's when the nutter trolls
flee, the perfect example the 45 questions... if you haven't noticed
your dancing around those very 45 questions. Don't feel abused, all
lone nuts run from those questions, answer them honestly and there's a
pretty obvious conclusion: a conspiracy murdered Kennedy on the street
of Dallas, Texas!
I know that varies with nutter-troll faith, there you have it.
> >Tell me Bill, can you *QUOTE* which page in Rush to Judgment this alleged "lie"
> >is contained on?
>
> You know I haven’t read the book. Would you like to discuss Conversations with
> Americans?
which is why old timstter keeps pushing you to the front.... lmao,
timstter-fresnoite fool is making you look like an ass, and you bite
every time.... when in doubt, blame it on Mark Lane...are there any
lone nut grown ups left?
> >Or will you run away again as usual...
>
> I’m not the one that danced around the fire to keep from debating if JFK’s
> Vietnam policy was the cause of his death. You are.
a bullet was the cause of his death, up front and full public view...
what I'd like to know is why most Texans so dislike Kennedy and his
evolving policies, especially foreign policy? LBJ gets in, gives the
generals their war then LBJ diehards complain Kennedy is the cause for
full escalation of the conflict... like LBJ was Kennedy's sock-puppet?
ROTFLMFAO.
Frankly Bill this has nothing to do with: did a conspiracy murder JFK
on the streets of a Texas city... Dallas? Now, right-wing kook jobs
being responsible for that act has such a nice ring to it, much more
plausible than a no one like LHO...
> Bill Clarke
timstter
> In article <4e942...@news.x-privat.org>, This Machine Kills Fascists says...
>
> >You are nothing but a BLATANT misinformationist, Benny, as is your
> >lying-by-omission hero, Mark Lane.
>
> >Informative Regards,
>
> >Tim Brennan
> >Sydney, Australia
> >*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> >Lane has a long and continuous history of mendacity. Like most lawyers he
> >is careful not to tell outright lies but "interprets" the facts in elastic
> >manner, altering them to suit his purposes. JFK, the Winter Solders
> >hearings, MLK, Jonestown, and his "defense" of the Holocaust deniers at the
> >Institute for Historical Review... it's a long and sleazy history. The
> >political Left in America washed their hands of Lane after his Jonestown
> >caper and the rest of America would be wise to do the same.
>
> Ah! Another 'nom de plume' to killfile.
>
> Rather amusing that the trolls keep changing names...
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ben Holmes
> Learn to Make Money with a Website -http://www.burningknife.com
What a FRAUD this Holmes is!
First of all he replies to the guy because he wants to defend his KGB
funded hero Mark Lane.
The when he can't deal with the response he puts the guy in the
killfilter, claiming that it is another alias for a JFK poster here.
No, Holmes. The person posting as *This Machine Kills Fascists* is NOT
a regular JFK-LN poster here. Where did you get THAT lying idea from?
He is simply ANOTHER person who has rumbled to the fact that your
mate, Lane, plays fast and loose with the truth.
Your blatant lies are mounting on a daily basis now, Holmes.
Informative Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
Tim Brennan
Ben Holmes
Oh?
>>Tell me Bill, can you *QUOTE* which page in Rush to Judgment this alleged
>>"lie" is contained on?
>
>
>You know I haven�t read the book. Would you like to discuss Conversations with
>Americans?
So you provably make assertions that you can't support.
Rather cowardly of you, isn't it?
>>Or will you run away again as usual...
>
>I�m not the one that danced around the fire to keep from debating if JFK�s
>Vietnam policy was the cause of his death. You are.
If you can't agree that JFK *WAS* assassinated by a conspiracy, it's rather
difficult to discuss the *reason* for that conspiracy.
So dance coward... dance!
>Bill Clarke
Ben Holmes
>>>>>> >extensive intelligence ever received from any source.' Perhaps the most
>>>>>> >significant prize for the Western intelligence community are the
>>>>>> >documents
>>>>>>>that contain the real names and identities of thousands of foreign agents
>>>>>> >spy world...Many of the documents remain classified [Full text].
>>>>>> >Mark Lane also published a book called Coversations with Americans that
>>>>>> >told
>>>>>> >half-truths and totally fabricated stories about American war crimes in
>>>>>> >Vietnam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2008/02/more-mark-lane-conspira...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I keep asking, and *NO-ONE* will dare to post even a single sentence from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> book "Rush to Judgment", and label it untrue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why is it so difficult for LNT'ers to do this? Bill Clarke, for example,
>>>>>> one of
>>>>>> the latest in the 'bash Mark Lane' club - couldn't give even a single
>>>>>> example,
>>>>>> and admitted that he'd never even read the book.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We present the lies of Posner, of Bugliosi, etc... but not a *SINGLE*
>>>>>> LNT'er is
>>>>>> willing to step up the plate and point out a "lie" of Mark Lane's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why is that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You even participated in the following thread yourself!:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_frm/thread/2a8da6d5d4dce5ef/ae41987b8b03bd9f?lnk=gst&q=lying+by+omission+the+mark+lane+way#ae41987b8b03bd9f
>>>>>
>>>>>You are nothing but a BLATANT misinformationist, Benny, as is your
>>>>>lying-by-omission hero, Mark Lane.
>>>>>
>>>>>Informative Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>Tim Brennan
>>>>>Sydney, Australia
>>>>>*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Lane has a long and continuous history of mendacity. Like most lawyers he
>>>>>is careful not to tell outright lies but "interprets" the facts in elastic
>>>>>manner, altering them to suit his purposes. JFK, the Winter Solders
>>>>>hearings, MLK, Jonestown, and his "defense" of the Holocaust deniers at the
>>>>>Institute for Historical Review... it's a long and sleazy history. The
>>>>>political Left in America washed their hands of Lane after his Jonestown
>>>>>caper and the rest of America would be wise to do the same.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ah! Another 'nom de plume' to killfile.
>>>>
>>>>Rather amusing that the trolls keep changing names...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Lane and his horseshit.
>>>Bill Clarke
>>
>>
>>You're lying again, Bill.
>
>Your promiscuous use of the words liar and lying might really mean something if
Of *course* I can document my claim. The citation for that documentation is
listed above.
You simply go to it, THEN COME BACK HERE AND GIVE THE PAGE NUMBER OF "RUSH TO
JUDGMENT" THAT'S LISTED.
But you can't, can you?
>>The proof is that you'll refuse to provide the citation... you know, "Rush to
>>Judgment", page ???
>
>You can stick Rush up your lying ass. You keep trying to make this singularly
>about Rush to Judgment
Sorry stupid, that *IS* the topic here.
>but Lane is so much more than Rush. Have you read only
>the one book of LaneīŋŊs? Do you know anything about Lane except Rush?
>
>Bill Clarke
Dancing, aren't you Bill?
The topic here was EXPLICITLY about "Rush to Judgment".
Both you and the "Tim" troll are lying, aren't you?
Bill Clarke
That is you job Benny, to support your conspiracy bullshit. It would be my job
to show you JFK�s alleged withdrawal from Vietnam was not the reason for his
assassination, be it by conspiracy or not. I believe you said this was the
probable cause of his death. Why not defend it coward?
Bill Clarke
>
Ben Holmes
Yep... I do so *SO* well that you're slavering in silence.
>It would be my job
>to show you JFK�s alleged withdrawal from Vietnam was not the reason for his
>assassination, be it by conspiracy or not. I believe you said this was the
>probable cause of his death.
Nope. It was almost certainly a *FACTOR*, perhaps even a large one, but it was
not "the" probable cause of death.
>Why not defend it coward?
I do. You're scared silly and running away as fast as you can.
Tell us about the assassination attempts in Chicago and Tampa... can you give a
credible reason why the Warren Commission was ignorant of these attempts?
Can you fit these attempted assassinations into a framework of two lone
assassins?
>Bill Clarke
timstter
wrote:
>
> You are nothing but a BLATANT misinformationist, Benny, as is your
> lying-by-omission hero, Mark Lane.
>
> Informative Regards,
>
> Tim Brennan
> Sydney, Australia
> *Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> Lane has a long and continuous history of mendacity. Like most lawyers he
> is careful not to tell outright lies but "interprets" the facts in elastic
> manner, altering them to suit his purposes. JFK, the Winter Solders
> hearings, MLK, Jonestown, and his "defense" of the Holocaust deniers at the
> Institute for Historical Review... it's a long and sleazy history. The
> political Left in America washed their hands of Lane after his Jonestown
> caper and the rest of America would be wise to do the same.
I believe your interpretation is correct, though years of *getting
away with it* appears to have emboldened Lane to spout more and more
outrageous manipulations of the truth as time goes by.
One of the most BLATANT examples I have seen is in his book *Plausible
Denial* in his dealing with Lee Harvey Oswald's pamphleting activities
on behalf of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New Orleans in 1963.
More than happy to detail this instance if you are interested. Lane's
whole MO is to simply lie by omission, in my view! That is why he
attracts liars like Ben Holmes to defend him.
This Machine Kills Fascists
I keep asking, and *NO-ONE* will dare to post even a single sentence from
the
book "Rush to Judgment", and label it untrue.
Why is it so difficult for LNT'ers to do this? Bill Clarke, for example, one
of
the latest in the 'bash Mark Lane' club - couldn't give even a single
example,
and admitted that he'd never even read the book.
We present the lies of Posner, of Bugliosi, etc... but not a *SINGLE* LNT'er
is
willing to step up the plate and point out a "lie" of Mark Lane's.
Why is that?
Mark Lane and Ruby's Warren Commission
Testimony
The following is from the autobiographical "Introduction" to
Jean Davison's OSWALD'S GAME, pp. 17-19. It tells of her initial
experiences researching the assassination.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I found the blue-bound Hearings in a local university
library. Volumes I-XV contained the testimony of witnesses
who appeared at the Commission's hearings or gave
depositions before a Commission lawyer. The
question-and-answer format made the transcripts read like
the text of a play. The remaining volumes contained exhibits
entered as evidence -- FBI reports, photographs, and similar
documents. The first thing that struck me was how
disorganized this material was. An FBI report on ballistics
might be followed by a psychiatric report on Jack Ruby's
mother or a description of the preparations for the
motorcade. And there was no index. I began taking notes,
wondering if I could ever find an underlying order in this
jumble of information.
During the reading I checked some of Mark Lane's
footnotes. The testimony he had cited as evidence that the
Warren Report was a cover-up had often been quoted out of
context, so that what he quoted changed the meaning of what
had actually been said. For example, the way Lane wrote
about Jack Ruby's testimony led readers to believe that Ruby
was denied the opportunity to reveal the existence of a
conspiracy.
After Ruby had been convicted of Oswald's murder and
sentenced to death, Warren Commission members Earl Warren
and Gerald R. Ford questioned him at the Dallas jail. For
many months, there had been rumors that Ruby was a hit man
whose job had been to silence Oswald. To hear Lane tell it,
Ruby seemed eager to disclose his part in this conspiracy:
Ruby made it plain that if the Commission took
him from the Dallas County Jail and permitted him
to testify in Washington, he could tell more
there; it was impossible for him to tell the
whole truth so long as he was in the jail in
Dallas. . . . "I would like to request that I go
to Washington and . . . take all the tests that I
have to take. It is very important.... Gentlemen,
unless you get me to Washington, you can't get a
fair shake out of me."
After quoting similar statements by Ruby, Lane continued:
Representative Ford asked, not a little
redundantly, "Is there anything more you can tell
us if you went back to Washington?" Ruby told him
that there was, and just before the hearing ended
Ruby made one last plea to the Chief Justice of
the United States.
RUBY: But you are the only one that can save me.
I think you can.
WARREN: Yes?
RUBY: But by delaying minutes, you lose the
chance. And all I want to do is tell the truth,
and that is all.
But Warren didn't take him to Washington. Reading Lane's
account, one is horrified. His implication is clear: Ruby
was begging to be allowed to expose the conspiracy, and the
Chief Justice of the Supreme Court wouldn't listen.
Everything Lane quoted was in the record. What he
*didn't* say, however, was that the "tests" Ruby wanted to
take were simply a lie detector test--and the reason Ruby
wanted to take one was to prove that he was *not* part of a
conspiracy.
After his arrest, Ruby had been diagnosed as a
"psychotic depressive." His testimony to the Commission
indicates that he believed he was the victim of a political
conspiracy by right-wing forces in Dallas. He suggested
that the John Birch Society was spreading the falsehood that
he, a Jew, was implicated in the president's death in order
to create anti-Jewish hysteria. "The Jewish people are being
exterminated at this moment," Ruby insisted. "Consequently,
a whole new form of government is going to take over our
country." To foil this supposed plot, Ruby repeatedly asked
to be given a lie detector test. At various points in their
conversation Ruby told Warren:
No subversive organization gave me any idea. No
underworld person made any effort to contact me.
It all happened that Sunday morning.. . . If you
don't take me back to Washington tonight to give
me a chance to prove to the President that I am
not guilty, then you will see the most tragic
thing that will ever happen.... All I want is a
lie detector test.. . . All I want to do is tell
the truth, and that is all. There was no
conspiracy.
The following month Ruby was allowed to take a
polygraph test in his jail cell, and he showed no signs of
deception when he denied being part of a conspiracy. Because
of the doubts about his sanity, however, the test results
were considered inconclusive.
The only part of this background that appears in Lane's
book is Ruby's statement, "All I want to do is tell the
truth, and that is all." Had he presented the accompanying
material, Lane might have argued that Ruby was faking.
Instead, Lane cheated. He transformed a man who seemed
pathetically anxious to prove his innocence into an honest
conspirator desperate to reveal everything he knew. And this
was only one of many similar distortions in RUSH TO
JUDGMENT.
I remember feeling outraged when I realized what Lane
had done. Evidently, the Warren records were like a vast
lumberyard. By picking up a few pieces here and there, and
doing some cutting and fitting, any theory could be built
for which someone had a blueprint.
Ben Holmes
What you just said is that Mark Lane told the truth...
>What he
>*didn't* say, however, was that the "tests" Ruby wanted to
>take were simply a lie detector test
wasn't found.
Indeed, this is *another* excellent lie by omission - the very thing that this
troll is accusing Mark Lane of...
The "tests" was the smallest part of the discussion - what Jack Ruby wanted was
to go to Washington IN ORDER TO TELL WHAT HE KNEW. He said this over and over
again, and you're lying at this point by trying to imply that all he wanted to
do was go take a polygraph.
>--and the reason Ruby
>wanted to take one was to prove that he was *not* part of a
>conspiracy.
> The only part of this background that appears in Lane's
>book is Ruby's statement, "All I want to do is tell the
>truth, and that is all." Had he presented the accompanying
>material, Lane might have argued that Ruby was faking.
>Instead, Lane cheated. He transformed a man who seemed
>pathetically anxious to prove his innocence into an honest
>conspirator desperate to reveal everything he knew. And this
>was only one of many similar distortions in RUSH TO
>JUDGMENT.
>
> I remember feeling outraged when I realized what Lane
>had done. Evidently, the Warren records were like a vast
>lumberyard. By picking up a few pieces here and there, and
>doing some cutting and fitting, any theory could be built
>for which someone had a blueprint.
Mark Lane.
They can't admit that Mark Lane told the truth.
So they complain that the entire book wasn't about Ruby.
This challenge is really simple... quote a statement out of "Rush to Judgment",
label it a lie, THEN CITE THE EVIDENCE THAT PROVES IT TO BE A LIE!!
CT'ers have done this REPEATEDLY with Posner & Bugliosi. Why can't LNT'ers do
this with Mark Lane?
And why are trolls afraid to use their real name?
Bill Clarke
aren’t you?
>>It would be my job
>>to show you JFK’s alleged withdrawal from Vietnam was not the reason for his
>>assassination, be it by conspiracy or not. I believe you said this was the
>>probable cause of his death.
>
>
>Nope. It was almost certainly a *FACTOR*, perhaps even a large one, but it was
>not "the" probable cause of death.
don’t you nut up and defend this bullshit? Coward.
>>Why not defend it coward?
>
>
>I do. You're scared silly and running away as fast as you can.
the subject just as you have done here.
Bill Clarke
Sam McClung
"the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court"
aka the molech court
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=earl+warren+bohemian+grove&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&biw=1280&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbnid=nGE6Fl-S-RIB9M:&imgrefurl=http://freedompressnews.com/TheBohemianGrove.aspx&docid=P4mEhII-hke-dM&w=636&h=481&ei=e6-VTsb_Do-3tgekp5GMBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=194&vpy=152&dur=6960&hovh=195&hovw=258&tx=154&ty=91&page=1&tbnh=145&tbnw=210&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0
Ben Holmes
>>>>>Americans?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>So you provably make assertions that you can't support.
>>>>
>>>>Rather cowardly of you, isn't it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Or will you run away again as usual...
>>>>>
>>>>>Vietnam policy was the cause of his death. You are.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>If you can't agree that JFK *WAS* assassinated by a conspiracy, it's rather
>>>>difficult to discuss the *reason* for that conspiracy.
>>>
>>>
>>>That is you job Benny, to support your conspiracy bullshit.
>>
>>
>>Yep... I do so *SO* well that you're slavering in silence.
>
>arenīŋŊt you?
There's far more than merely the 45 Questions... but you've not attempted even
one.
You can run, Bill... but you can't hide in this forum.
>>>It would be my job
>>>to show you JFKīŋŊs alleged withdrawal from Vietnam was not the reason for his
>>>assassination, be it by conspiracy or not. I believe you said this was the
>>>probable cause of his death.
>>
>>
>>Nope. It was almost certainly a *FACTOR*, perhaps even a large one, but it was
>>not "the" probable cause of death.
>
>You have references? YouīŋŊll understand if I donīŋŊt take your word for it. Why
>donīŋŊt you nut up and defend this bullshit? Coward.
How about we start with the assassinations in Chicago and Tampa?
I've already started, but you've been completely silent!?
Who's the coward???
>>>Why not defend it coward?
>>
>>
>>I do. You're scared silly and running away as fast as you can.
>
>No, actually you donīŋŊt. Afraid? What you do is dance around and try to change
>the subject just as you have done here.
>
>Bill Clarke
Ready to begin, indeed, have already done so... why aren't you responding?
>> Tell us about the assassination attempts in Chicago and Tampa... can
>> you give a credible reason why the Warren Commission was ignorant of
>> these attempts?
>>
>> Can you fit these attempted assassinations into a framework of two lone
>> assassins?
Why the silence Bill? Cat got your tongue? Or cowardice?
>>>Bill Clarke
Bill Clarke
>>>>>>Americans?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>So you provably make assertions that you can't support.
>>>>>
>>>>>Rather cowardly of you, isn't it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Or will you run away again as usual...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Vietnam policy was the cause of his death. You are.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>If you can't agree that JFK *WAS* assassinated by a conspiracy, it's rather
>>>>>difficult to discuss the *reason* for that conspiracy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That is you job Benny, to support your conspiracy bullshit.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yep... I do so *SO* well that you're slavering in silence.
>>
>>aren�t you?
>
>
>There's far more than merely the 45 Questions... but you've not attempted even
>one.
>
>You can run, Bill... but you can't hide in this forum.
>
>
>>>>It would be my job
>>>>assassination, be it by conspiracy or not. I believe you said this was the
>>>>probable cause of his death.
>>>
>>>
>>>Nope. It was almost certainly a *FACTOR*, perhaps even a large one, but it was
>>>not "the" probable cause of death.
>>
>>don�t you nut up and defend this bullshit? Coward.
>
>
>How about we start with the assassinations in Chicago and Tampa?
>
>I've already started, but you've been completely silent!?
>
>Who's the coward???
>
>
>>>>Why not defend it coward?
>>>
>>>
>>>I do. You're scared silly and running away as fast as you can.
>>
>>the subject just as you have done here.
>>
>>Bill Clarke
>
>
>Ready to begin, indeed, have already done so... why aren't you responding?
>
>
>>> Tell us about the assassination attempts in Chicago and Tampa... can
>>> you give a credible reason why the Warren Commission was ignorant of
>>> these attempts?
>>>
>>> Can you fit these attempted assassinations into a framework of two lone
>>> assassins?
>
>
>Why the silence Bill? Cat got your tongue? Or cowardice?
Because I don�t give a shit about Chicago and Tampa. You are rather slow on the
uptake aren�t you. You say that JFK�s Vietnam policy had something to do with
his assassination. But you can�t support it. Who is the coward Benny?
Bill Clarke
timstter
> In article <j71mat0...@drn.newsguy.com>, Bill Clarke says...
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <j71js50...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>
> >>In article <j71jos0...@drn.newsguy.com>, Bill Clarke says...
>
> >>>In article <j71gn60...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>
> >>>>In article <4e942...@news.x-privat.org>, This Machine Kills Fascists says...
> >>>>>> >extensive intelligence ever received from any source.' Perhaps the most
> >>>>>> >significant prize for the Western intelligence community are the
> >>>>>> >documents
> >>>>>>>that contain the real names and identities of thousands of foreign agents
> >>>>>> >the
> >>>>>> >spy world...Many of the documents remain classified [Full text].
> >>>>>> >Mark Lane also published a book called Coversations with Americans that
> >>>>>> >told
> >>>>>> >half-truths and totally fabricated stories about American war crimes in
> >>>>>> >Vietnam.
>
> >>>>>> >http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2008/02/more-mark-lane-conspira...
>
> >>>>>>I keep asking, and *NO-ONE* will dare to post even a single sentence from
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> book "Rush to Judgment", and label it untrue.
>
> >>>>>> Why is it so difficult for LNT'ers to do this? Bill Clarke, for example,
> >>>>>> one of
> >>>>>> the latest in the 'bash Mark Lane' club - couldn't give even a single
> >>>>>> example,
> >>>>>> and admitted that he'd never even read the book.
>
> >>>>>> We present the lies of Posner, of Bugliosi, etc... but not a *SINGLE*
> >>>>>> LNT'er is
> >>>>>> willing to step up the plate and point out a "lie" of Mark Lane's.
>
> >>>>>> Why is that?
>
> >>>>>LOL! What a LIAR you are, Holmes!
>
> >>>>>You even participated in the following thread yourself!:
>
>
> >>>>>You are nothing but a BLATANT misinformationist, Benny, as is your
> >>>>>lying-by-omission hero, Mark Lane.
>
> >>>>>Informative Regards,
>
> >>>>>Tim Brennan
> >>>>>Sydney, Australia
> >>>>>*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> >>>>>Lane has a long and continuous history of mendacity. Like most lawyers he
> >>>>>is careful not to tell outright lies but "interprets" the facts in elastic
> >>>>>manner, altering them to suit his purposes. JFK, the Winter Solders
> >>>>>hearings, MLK, Jonestown, and his "defense" of the Holocaust deniers at the
> >>>>>Institute for Historical Review... it's a long and sleazy history. The
> >>>>>political Left in America washed their hands of Lane after his Jonestown
> >>>>>caper and the rest of America would be wise to do the same.
>
> >>>>Ah! Another 'nom de plume' to killfile.
>
> >>>>Rather amusing that the trolls keep changing names...
>
> >>>Lane and his horseshit.
> >>>Bill Clarke
>
> >>You're lying again, Bill.
>
> >Your promiscuous use of the words liar and lying might really mean something if
>
> Of *course* I can document my claim. The citation for that documentation is
> listed above.
>
> You simply go to it, THEN COME BACK HERE AND GIVE THE PAGE NUMBER OF "RUSH TO
> JUDGMENT" THAT'S LISTED.
>
> But you can't, can you?
>
> >>The proof is that you'll refuse to provide the citation... you know, "Rush to
> >>Judgment", page ???
>
> >You can stick Rush up your lying ass. You keep trying to make this singularly
> >about Rush to Judgment
>
> Sorry stupid, that *IS* the topic here.
>
> >but Lane is so much more than Rush. Have you read only
>
> >Bill Clarke
>
> Dancing, aren't you Bill?
>
> The topic here was EXPLICITLY about "Rush to Judgment".
>
> Both you and the "Tim" troll are lying, aren't you?
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ben Holmes
> Learn to Make Money with a Website -http://www.burningknife.com
Say, Holmes, how many times are you planning to duck the blatant LIE
BY OMISSION that Mark Lane told about Lee Harvey Oswald's shooting
ability in Rush To Judgment?
On page 108 of Rush To Judgment (Penguin edition) Lane states:
QUOTE ON:
What do we know about Oswald's proficiency with a rifle? That he was a
relatively poor shot and betrayed a dislike of weapons to a Marine
Corps friend.
QUOTE OFF
The reality? Enjoy this photo of Lee Harvey Oswald sporting a US
Marine Corps Sharpshooter medal, Holmes:
http://www.themissingchapter.com/oswald1.jpg
It's hard to tell who is the biggest liar between you and Lane, Benny.
Ben Holmes
I think we have an answer...
>>>>>Why not defend it coward?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I do. You're scared silly and running away as fast as you can.
>>>
>>>No, actually you don�t. Afraid? What you do is dance around and try to change
>>>the subject just as you have done here.
>>>
>>>Bill Clarke
>>
>>
>>Ready to begin, indeed, have already done so... why aren't you responding?
Cowardice, no doubt...
>>>> Tell us about the assassination attempts in Chicago and Tampa... can
>>>> you give a credible reason why the Warren Commission was ignorant of
>>>> these attempts?
>>>>
>>>> Can you fit these attempted assassinations into a framework of two lone
>>>> assassins?
>>
>>
>>Why the silence Bill? Cat got your tongue? Or cowardice?
>
>Because I don�t give a shit about Chicago and Tampa.
Sorry stupid, this is a JFK *CONSPIRACY* forum. If you want to talk about
Vietnam, you know where to go.
>You are rather slow on the
>uptake aren�t you.
I'm not the one unwilling to debate the conspiracy in a conspiracy forum...
>You say that JFK�s Vietnam policy had something to do with
>his assassination.
Yep... it undoubtedly did.
>But you can�t support it.
Of course I can. I'm doing so, but you keep running away... why is that, coward?
>Who is the coward Benny?
You've answered your own question.
>Bill Clarke
Rob Caprio
>
> You are nothing but a BLATANT misinformationist, Benny, as is your
> lying-by-omission hero, Mark Lane.
>
> Informative Regards,
>
> Tim Brennan
Tim,
I missed that one so why not sum it up for me right here -- quote the
LIE Mark Lane told in "RTJ" for me!
Curious Regards,
Robert
Rob Caprio
wrote:
>
> You are nothing but a BLATANT misinformationist, Benny, as is your
> lying-by-omission hero, Mark Lane.
>
> Informative Regards,
>
> Tim Brennan
> Sydney, Australia
> *Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> Lane has a long and continuous history of mendacity. Like most lawyers he
> is careful not to tell outright lies but "interprets" the facts in elastic
> manner, altering them to suit his purposes. JFK, the Winter Solders
> hearings, MLK, Jonestown, and his "defense" of the Holocaust deniers at the
> Institute for Historical Review... it's a long and sleazy history. The
> political Left in America washed their hands of Lane after his Jonestown
> caper and the rest of America would be wise to do the same.
You sir, are the liar. Anyone who has read the 26 volumes (what he
used for his book) and thinks LHO did it is a liar. Mark Lane told no
lies in "RTJ". He didn't *need* to as the WC did all the lying for
him.
Rob Caprio
> In article <j71gn60...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <4e942...@news.x-privat.org>, This Machine Kills Fascists says...
>
> >>You are nothing but a BLATANT misinformationist, Benny, as is your
> >>lying-by-omission hero, Mark Lane.
>
> >>Informative Regards,
>
> >>Tim Brennan
> >>Sydney, Australia
> >>*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> >>Lane has a long and continuous history of mendacity. Like most lawyers he
> >>is careful not to tell outright lies but "interprets" the facts in elastic
> >>manner, altering them to suit his purposes. JFK, the Winter Solders
> >>hearings, MLK, Jonestown, and his "defense" of the Holocaust deniers at the
> >>Institute for Historical Review... it's a long and sleazy history. The
> >>political Left in America washed their hands of Lane after his Jonestown
> >>caper and the rest of America would be wise to do the same.
>
> >Ah! Another 'nom de plume' to killfile.
>
> >Rather amusing that the trolls keep changing names...
>
> What is the matter Homie? Didn’t like the message? It very well nails Lane and
> his horseshit.
> Bill Clarke
Just like you could NEVER produce a document signed by JFK saying the
US was "going to stay until they won the war" in Vietnam you will
NEVER be able to cite a lie by Lane in the JFK case.
As I have said before, perhaps he was wrong or off base (and I don't
know this for sure since I have never read his book on Vietnam that
you mentioned), but this does NOT mean that makes him wrong (or a liar
in your words) about the JFK assassination.
The LNers use the same approach all the time -- they try to discredit
with a broad brush.
Bill Clarke
I notice you also aren�t unwilling to spam it.
>>You say that JFK�s Vietnam policy had something to do with
>>his assassination.
>
>
>Yep... it undoubtedly did.
>
>
>>But you can�t support it.
>
>
>Of course I can. I'm doing so, but you keep running away... why is that, coward?
You have done no such thing. Not one thing to support your claim that Vietnam
had anything to do with Kennedy�s assassination. I guess you think your word is
good enough. It isn�t.
Bill Clarke
Rob Caprio
Can you show me where he was funded by the KGB? And IF so, so what?
Perhaps the Soviets funded him because they knew we might try and
blame them for the killing! It doesn't really matter as it was shown
years ago LHO nor the Soviets killed JFK.
You have to lie about that even to this day. You can't cite one piece
of evidence that shows LHO pulled a trigger on 11/22/63.
> The when he can't deal with the response he puts the guy in the
> killfilter, claiming that it is another alias for a JFK poster here.
The guy is lucky from my point of view as you will never get anywhere
with Allegedly "Ben Holmes" anyway IMO. He is here to play games like
the LNers are.
> No, Holmes. The person posting as *This Machine Kills Fascists* is NOT
> a regular JFK-LN poster here. Where did you get THAT lying idea from?
>
> He is simply ANOTHER person who has rumbled to the fact that your
> mate, Lane, plays fast and loose with the truth.
I love the fact he called me paranoid for thinking he was John Mcadams
when he thinks every LNer is the same person or people! I just love
his hypocrisy.
> Your blatant lies are mounting on a daily basis now, Holmes.
Good to see someone else sees this too, but let's face it, YOU are no
better!
Informed Regards,
Robert
Bill Clarke
Rob Caprio says...
>
>On Oct 11, 10:27 am, Bill Clarke <Bill_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> In article <j71gn60...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ben Holmes says...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>s...
>>
>> >>"timstter" wrote in message
>.
>>
>> >>On Oct 11, 2:22 pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
>> >>> In article <4e93a...@news.x-privat.org>, This Machine Kills Fascists
>> >>> says...
>>
>ected
>> >>> >to
>> >>> >the British with documentation showing that Mark Lane received money=
> from
>> >>> >the KGB through an intermediary and advice from the KGB writer Genri=
>kh
>> >>> >Borovik and other Soviet journalists the KGB trusted.
>>
>e
>> >>> >about
>> >>> >Mark Lane in a book called The Sword and Shield, and you can read wh=
>at
>> >>> >they
>> >>> >wrote on pages 227-228. The passage from 225-230 details the conspir=
>acy
>> >>> >theories of the KGB and Mark Lane about the Kennedy murder.
>>
>> >>> >According to Mitrokhin and Andrew, the KGB believed that President
>> >>> >Kennedy
>> >>> >had been killed by right-wingers:
>>
>> >>> >The choice of Oswald as Kennedy's assassin, the KGB believed, was
>> >>> >intended
>> >>> >to divert public attention from the racist oil magnates and make the
>> >>> >assassination appear to be a Communist plot (225).
>>
>> >>> >Mitrokhin and Andrew also detail Mark Lane's conspiracy theory:
>>
>the
>> >>> >Citizens' Committee of Inquiry in a small office on lower Fifth Aven=
>ue
>> >>> >and
>> >>> >rented a small theater at which, each evening for several months, he=
> gave
>> >>> >what became known as "The Speech," updating the development of his
>"
>> >>> >writes
>> >>> >Lane, "because not a single network radio or television program perm=
>itted
>> >>> >the broadcast of a word of divergence from the official view." Thoug=
>h it
>> >>> >dared not take the risk of contacting Lane directly, the New York
>> >>> >residency
>> >>> >sent him 1,500 dollars to help finance his research through the
>> >>> >intermediary
>> >>> >of a close friend whom Lane's KGB file identifies only as a trusted
>> >>> >contact.
>cted
>> >>> >that he might have guessed where it came from; it was also concerned=
> that
>> >>> >the secret subsidy might be discovered by the FBI.
>>
> to
>> >>> >Europe in 1964. While there, Lane asked to visit Moscow in order to
>> >>> >discuss
>that
>> >>> >inviting him to Russia would reveal its hand in too blatant a way an=
>d his
>> >>> >proposed trip was "tactfully postponed." Trusted contacts were, howe=
>ver,
>> >>> >selected from among Soviet journalists to encourage him in his resea=
>rch.
>>
>> >>> >Among them was the KGB agent Genrikh Borovik, who later maintained
>> >>> >regular
>ed
>> >>> >complicity at the highest levels of government in the Kennedy
>> >>> >assassination.
>come
>> >>> >the
>> >>> >best-selling paperback of 1967, as well as enjoying what Lane modest=
>ly
>> >>> >describes as enormous success around the world" and causing "a drama=
>tic
>> >>> >change in public perception" of the assassination.
>>
>ous.
>> >>> >The
>> >>> >most popular books on the assassination were now those that exposed =
>some
>> >>> >of
>> >>> >the excesses of the conspiracy theorists." CPUSA leaders who visited
>> >>> >Moscow
>> >>> >in 1971, though describing Rush to Judgment as "advantageous to the
>> >>> >Communists," claimed that Lane's main motive was his own
>> >>> >self-aggrandizement
>> >>> >(pp. 227-228).
>>
>> >>> >On page 233, The Sword and Shield provides the KGB's account of its
>> >>> >efforts
>ook
>> >>> >fails to mention that Mark Lane was the lawyer for Jonestown.
>>
> was
>> >>> >founded "on the initiative of the KGB." The CIA defector Philip Agee=
> and
>> >>> >a
>> >>> >group of supporters were the publishers (Sword and Shield. pp. 232-2=
>33).
>>
>> >>> >Mitrokhin and Andrew explain:
>>
>and
>> >>> >Directorate K...to keep the Covert Action Information Bulletin suppl=
>ied
>> >>> >with
>> >>> >material designed to compromise the CIA...[The] task force, however,
>> >>> >became
>> >>> >increasingly concerned about the difficulty of finding enough secret
>ore
>> >>> >open-source material...which could be blamed on the CIA---among them=
> the
>> >>> >Jonestown massacre in Guyana, when 900 members of the American relig=
>ious
>> >>> >cult the "People's Temple" had been persuaded to commit mass suicide=
> or
>> >>> >had
>> >>> >been murdered (233).
>>
>still
>> >>> >classified, so I don't know if this book gives a full account of Mar=
>k
>> >>> >Lane's
>> >>> >activities according to the KGB.
>>
>> >>> >In his article "Documenting the KGB," Stephen Stromberg explains:
>>
> and
>> >>> >extensive intelligence ever received from any source.' Perhaps the m=
>ost
>> >>> >significant prize for the Western intelligence community are the
>> >>> >documents
>gents
>> >>> >the KGB recruited and kept under deep cover abroad=97a rosetta stone=
> for
>> >>> >the
>> >>> >spy world...Many of the documents remain classified [Full text].
>hat
>> >>> >told
>> >>> >half-truths and totally fabricated stories about American war crimes=
> in
>> >>> >Vietnam.
>>
>> >>> >http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2008/02/more-mark-lane-conspir=
>a...
>>
>> >>> I keep asking, and *NO-ONE* will dare to post even a single sentence =
>from
>> >>> the
>> >>> book "Rush to Judgment", and label it untrue.
>>
>le,
>> >>> one of
>> >>> the latest in the 'bash Mark Lane' club - couldn't give even a single
>> >>> example,
>> >>> and admitted that he'd never even read the book.
>>
>> >>> We present the lies of Posner, of Bugliosi, etc... but not a *SINGLE*
>> >>> LNT'er is
>> >>> willing to step up the plate and point out a "lie" of Mark Lane's.
>>
>> >>> Why is that?
>>
>> >>> --
>---
>> >>> Ben Holmes
>> >>> Learn to Make Money with a Website -http://www.burningknife.com
>>
>> >>LOL! What a LIAR you are, Holmes!
>>
>> >>You even participated in the following thread yourself!:
>>
>.
>>
>> >>You are nothing but a BLATANT misinformationist, Benny, as is your
>> >>lying-by-omission hero, Mark Lane.
>>
>> >>Informative Regards,
>>
>> >>Tim Brennan
>> >>Sydney, Australia
>> >>*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>>
> he
>> >>is careful not to tell outright lies but "interprets" the facts in elas=
>tic
>> >>manner, altering them to suit his purposes. JFK, the Winter Solders
> the
>> >>Institute for Historical Review... it's a long and sleazy history. The
>n
>> >>caper and the rest of America would be wise to do the same.
>>
>> >Ah! Another 'nom de plume' to killfile.
>>
>> >Rather amusing that the trolls keep changing names...
>>
> Lane and
>> his horseshit.
>> Bill Clarke
>
>Just like you could NEVER produce a document signed by JFK saying the
>US was "going to stay until they won the war" in Vietnam
And you could never produce one signed by JFK that said he was totally
withdrawing from Vietnam.
At least you tried which shows more balls than Holmes has shown.
Bill Clarke
Rob Caprio
> In article <6ed07f0f-aba5-4359-93a2-82d8d8147...@g25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
Bill, the Taylor-McNamara report attached to NSAM 263 showed the "bulk
of the US personnel" would be sent home by the end of 1965! How do
you start a war or fight a war with Embassy guards and check point
sentries?
JFK was shrewd enough to use the word "personnel" too instead of
troops as he wanted the CIA and other civilian folks gone as well for
the most part!
You can't show JFK ever claimed we had to "win the war" and that he
would have lied to the American people about the fake US Maddox attack
to get us into a real war.
> And you could never produce one signed by JFK that said he was totally
> withdrawing from Vietnam.
Again, see the Taylor-McNamara report that led to NSAM 263! IF JFK
was not going to withdraw and lead us to war as you claim why was he
going to bring a thousand troops home by the end of 1963? Doesn't
this seem ridiculous IF you plan on widening the conflict?
> At least you tried which shows more balls than Holmes has shown.
The BURDEN was never on me Bill -- it was on YOU and you FAILED. You
claimed an open war was under way while JFK was president and that is
a lie. YOU claimed NSAM 273 was NO reversal of policy and that was a
lie. You claimed JFK said we were going to win the war like NSAM 288
said, and then you FAILED miserably in showing JFK ever signed a
document saying this.
You lied and got caught. Be man enough to admit it.
Ben Holmes
Yeah... responding to your nonsense is certainly spam.
>>>You say that JFK�s Vietnam policy had something to do with
>>>his assassination.
>>
>>
>>Yep... it undoubtedly did.
>>
>>
>>>But you can�t support it.
>>
>>
>>Of course I can. I'm doing so, but you keep running away... why is that, coward?
>
>You have done no such thing.
You're lying again, Bill.
>Not one thing to support your claim that Vietnam
>had anything to do with Kennedy�s assassination.
Au contraire, I'm supporting that claim from the base up.
You *FIRST* must be willing to admit that there was a conspiracy.
The fact that you keep running away from defending your theory in this case
simply goes to show your cowardice.
>I guess you think your word is
>good enough. It isn�t.
Then refute it. Explain why you believe that there were *no* assassination
attempts in Chicago and Tampa.
>Bill Clarke
>
>
>
>>>Who is the coward Benny?
>>
>>
>>
>>You've answered your own question.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Bill Clarke
timstter
> On Oct 11, 4:50 am, timstter <timst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 11, 2:22 pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
>
> > > In article <4e93a...@news.x-privat.org>, This Machine Kills Fascists says...
>
> > > >When the Soviet regime ended, the KGB archivist Vasili Mitrokhin defected to
> > > >Borovik and other Soviet journalists the KGB trusted.
>
> > > >Vasili Mitrokhin and the Cambridge historian Christopher Andrew wrote about
> > > >According to Mitrokhin and Andrew, the KGB believed that President Kennedy
> > > >had been killed by right-wingers:
>
> > > >The choice of Oswald as Kennedy's assassin, the KGB believed, was intended
> > > >to divert public attention from the racist oil magnates and make the
> > > >assassination appear to be a Communist plot (225).
>
>
> > > >Together with student assistants and other volunteers,Lanefounded the
> > > >rented a small theater at which, each evening for several months, he gave
> > > >what became known as "The Speech," updating the development of his
> > > >conspiracy theory. "This alternative method of dissent was required," writes
> > > >Lane, "because not a single network radio or television program permitted
> > > >the broadcast of a word of divergence from the official view." Though it
> > > >WhileLanewas not told the source of the money, the residency suspected
> > > >the secret subsidy might be discovered by the FBI.
>
> > > >The same intermediary provided 500 dollars to pay for a trip byLaneto
> > > >selected from among Soviet journalists to encourage him in his research.
>
> > > >Among them was the KGB agent Genrikh Borovik, who later maintained regular
> > > >It was top of that year's hardback bestseller best and went on to become the
> > > >best-selling paperback of 1967, as well as enjoying whatLanemodestly
> > > >describes as enormous success around the world" and causing "a dramatic
> > > >change in public perception" of the assassination.
>
> > > >the excesses of the conspiracy theorists." CPUSA leaders who visited Moscow
> > > >in 1971, though describing Rush to Judgment as "advantageous to the
>
> > > >On page 233, The Sword and Shield provides the KGB's account of its efforts
> > > >to blame the Jonestown tragedy on the CIA, although remarkably the book
> > > >In 1978, a publication called the Covert Action Information Bulletin was
> > > >founded "on the initiative of the KGB." The CIA defector Philip Agee and a
> > > >group of supporters were the publishers (Sword and Shield. pp. 232-233).
>
> > > >Mitrokhin and Andrew explain:
>
> > > >The Centre [KGB] assembled a task force of personnel from Service A and
> > > >Directorate K...to keep the Covert Action Information Bulletin supplied with
> > > >material designed to compromise the CIA...[The] task force, however, became
> > > >increasingly concerned about the difficulty of finding enough secret
> > > >material for the Bulletin, and recommended that it look harder for more
> > > >open-source material...which could be blamed on the CIA---among them the
> > > >Jonestown massacre in Guyana, when 900 members of the American religious
> > > >cult the "People's Temple" had been persuaded to commit mass suicide or had
> > > >been murdered (233).
>
> > > >Much of the information Mitrokhin brought out from the KGB files is still
>
> > > >In his article "Documenting the KGB," Stephen Stromberg explains:
>
> > > >According to the FBI, Mitrokhin’s documents are 'the most complete and
> > > >extensive intelligence ever received from any source.' Perhaps the most
> > > >significant prize for the Western intelligence community are the documents
> > > >that contain the real names and identities of thousands of foreign agents
> > > >the KGB recruited and kept under deep cover abroad—a rosetta stone for the
> > > >spy world...Many of the documents remain classified [Full text].
> > > >Vietnam.
>
> > > >http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2008/02/more-mark-lane-conspira...
>
> > > I keep asking, and *NO-ONE* will dare to post even a single sentence from the
> > > book "Rush to Judgment", and label it untrue.
>
> > > Why is it so difficult for LNT'ers to do this? Bill Clarke, for example, one of
>
> > > We present the lies of Posner, of Bugliosi, etc... but not a *SINGLE* LNT'er is
> > > Why is that?
>
> > > --
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Ben Holmes
> > > Learn to Make Money with a Website -http://www.burningknife.com
>
> > LOL! What a LIAR you are, Holmes!
>
> > You even participated in the following thread yourself!:
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_frm/thread/2...
>
> > You are nothing but a BLATANT misinformationist, Benny, as is your
> >lying-by-omissionhero,MarkLane.
>
> > Informative Regards,
>
> > Tim Brennan
>
> Tim,
>
> I missed that one so why not sum it up for me right here -- quote the
>
> Curious Regards,
>
> Robert
Hi Rob,
Right here, pal:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_frm/thread/373d5a8c32db8475/a9930167063a3b7f?lnk=gst&q=lying+by+omission+the+mark+lane+way#a9930167063a3b7f
Allegedly Ben Holmes has never heard anyone label a SINGLE THING from
RTJ as a lie, LOL!
timstter
YOO HOO! BENNY! BUMPED FOR YOUR EDIFICATION!
Say, Holmes, how many times are you planning to duck the blatant LIE
BY OMISSION that Mark Lane told about Lee Harvey Oswald's shooting
ability in Rush To Judgment?
On page 108 of Rush To Judgment (Penguin edition) Lane states:
QUOTE ON:
What do we know about Oswald's proficiency with a rifle? That he was a
relatively poor shot and betrayed a dislike of weapons to a Marine
Corps friend.
QUOTE OFF
The reality? Enjoy this photo of Lee Harvey Oswald sporting a US
Marine Corps Sharpshooter medal, Holmes:
http://www.themissingchapter.com/oswald1.jpg
It's hard to tell who is the biggest liar between you and Lane, Benny.
Informative Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> read more »
lazu...@webtv.net
Andrew who try and paint Lane and the first generation reserchers as
funded by the KGB. This is pure Govt. Propoganda, but you have to read
The Last Word...Laz
Ben Holmes
lazu...@webtv.net says...
He certainly has the knowledge to realize the lie told by the WC regarding how a
scope is "a substantial aid to rapid, accurate firing..."
Looks like Bill is too smart to jump in and label it for the lie that it is.
(and too dishonest, too...)
I wonder if the trolls are *ever* going to produce a quote from "Rush to
Judgment" that they try to label a lie, along with the citation to the actual
evidence that contradicts what Mark Lane was speaking about...
They've failed so far...
timstter
> In article <19903-4EAC3D4E-...@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net>,
> lazuli...@webtv.net says...
>
>
> >Hey Jackass-read Mark Lane, he destroys Max Holland and Christopher
> >Andrew who try and paint Lane and the first generation reserchers as
> >funded by the KGB. This is pure Govt. Propoganda, but you have to read
> >The Last Word...Laz
>
> Say, I wonder where Bill Clarke disappeared to?
>
> He certainly has the knowledge to realize the lie told by the WC regarding how a
> scope is "a substantial aid to rapid, accurate firing..."
>
> Looks like Bill is too smart to jump in and label it for the lie that it is.
>
> (and too dishonest, too...)
>
> I wonder if the trolls are *ever* going to produce a quote from "Rush to
> Judgment" that they try to label a lie, along with the citation to the actual
> evidence that contradicts what Mark Lane was speaking about...
>
> They've failed so far...
>
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/794c10e6bb370c50
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ben Holmes
> Learn to Make Money with a Website -http://www.burningknife.com
question!
It looks like you're as big a liar as Lane is, Benny.
timstter
Say, Laz, if what Lane has written in his book about the KGB claims
against him is so good, why don't you post the essential points of his
refutation right here? Nothing to stop you doing that, Laz.
In the meantime, let's enjoy again what the first poster in this
thread put up:
QUOTE ON:
Sure be interested to see what Lane has to say about THAT lot, LOL!
aeffects
> On Oct 30, 5:52 am, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <19903-4EAC3D4E-...@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net>,
> > lazuli...@webtv.net says...
>
> > >Hey Jackass-read Mark Lane, he destroys Max Holland and Christopher
> > >Andrew who try and paint Lane and the first generation reserchers as
> > >funded by the KGB. This is pure Govt. Propoganda, but you have to read
> > >The Last Word...Laz
>
> > Say, I wonder where Bill Clarke disappeared to?
>
> > He certainly has the knowledge to realize the lie told by the WC regarding how a
> > scope is "a substantial aid to rapid, accurate firing..."
>
> > Looks like Bill is too smart to jump in and label it for the lie that it is.
>
> > (and too dishonest, too...)
>
> > I wonder if the trolls are *ever* going to produce a quote from "Rush to
> > Judgment" that they try to label a lie, along with the citation to the actual
> > evidence that contradicts what Mark Lane was speaking about...
>
> > They've failed so far...
>
> Right here, Benny:
>
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Ben Holmes
> > Learn to Make Money with a Website -http://www.burningknife.com
>
> In fact, you've been following and commenting on the very thread in
> question!
>
> It looks like you're as big a liar as Lane is, Benny.
concerning the 45 questions, Fats? Looks like old Bill disappeared....
wonder why? lmfao
Ben Holmes
aeffects says...
>
>On Oct 29, 12:31=A0pm, timstter <timst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > In article <19903-4EAC3D4E-...@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net>,
>> > lazuli...@webtv.net says...
>>
>> > >Hey Jackass-read Mark Lane, he destroys Max Holland and Christopher
>> > >Andrew who try and paint Lane and the first generation reserchers as
>> > >The Last Word...Laz
>>
>> > Say, I wonder where Bill Clarke disappeared to?
>>
>> > He certainly has the knowledge to realize the lie told by the WC
>> > regarding how a scope is "a substantial aid to rapid, accurate firing..."
>>
>> > Looks like Bill is too smart to jump in and label it for the lie that
>> > it is.
>>
>> > (and too dishonest, too...)
>>
>> > I wonder if the trolls are *ever* going to produce a quote from "Rush
>> > to Judgment" that they try to label a lie, along with the citation to
>> > the actual evidence that contradicts what Mark Lane was speaking about...
>>
>> > They've failed so far...
>>
>> Right here, Benny:
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/794c10e6bb37...
It's a FACT that they couldn't hit the head or neck while using the scope...
which as the WCR asserted was "a substantial aid to rapid, accurate firing..."
>> In fact, you've been following and commenting on the very thread in
>> question!
You must quote Mark Lane, giving the page number in "Rush to Judgment" - THEN
GIVE A CITATION TO THE EVIDENCE THAT CONTRADICTS WHAT HE SAID.
Not what you *think* he said, what you *speculate* he said, or any other such
nonsense...
Unfortunately, in order to do this, you'll come face to face with the very thing
you can't stand... the real evidence in this case.
>> It looks like you're as big a liar as Lane is, Benny.
>
>is it true you asked Bill Clarke here to aid your disinfo battle
>concerning the 45 questions, Fats? Looks like old Bill disappeared....
>wonder why? lmfao
certainly knowledgeable enough to know what a lie it is to assert that a scope
is "a substantial aid to rapid, accurate firing..." - so he's simply
disappeared.
>> Informative Regards,
>>
>> Tim Brennan
>> Sydney, Australia
>> *Newsgroup(s) Commentator*