Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
LEE FARLEY SAID:
Your logic goes something like this:
We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
2:30 PM, Lee. That gave her plenty of time to get to work on time even if she missed the bus at 1:12. The busses left every ten minutes along that route on Jefferson Boulevard. So she could have easily gotten on the 1:22 bus and had ample time to get to her job before 2:30 (even if she normally did want to make the 1:12 bus each day).
And I'd be willing to bet you my next disinfo check that Mrs. Markham didn't always make the 1:12 bus every day.
Why do I say that?
Because the fact is -- She simply didn't NEED to make the specific 1:12 bus in order to get to work by 2:30.
I'd wager that there were many days when she had to settle for the 1:22 bus, or the 1:32....which would still give her plenty of time to get to work by 2:30 (even if the bus was practically crawling every step of the way).
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HELEN MARKHAM -- "Eat Well Restaurant, 1404 Main Street, Dallas, Tex."
JOE BALL -- "Were you working there on November 22, 1963?"
MARKHAM -- "I was."
BALL -- "What hours did you work?"
MARKHAM -- "I was due at work from 2:30 in the evening until 10:30 at night." *
* Mrs. Markham really meant to say "2:30 in the afternoon", of course, since 2:30 PM is far from being "in the evening". But I would imagine that some conspiracy theorists want to bite her head off for making that simple error.
LEE FARLEY SAID:
Let me say this reeeeeeeeal sloooooow for you.
Markham had a regular bus. The regular bus was 1:12. She said (UNDER OATH) that she left at her regular time so she could catch her regular bus. Got that? What is it that you fail to grasp on this point?
I don't give a flying rat's ass what you believe about whether she could have gotten a later bus. Keep what you believe to yourself.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
It'd be nice if you would follow that same advice. Because the things you believe should, indeed, be kept to yourself (due to their built-in silliness).
LEE FARLEY SAID:
How do you know she [Markham] didn't mean to say she was due at work at 1:30 in the afternoon? Do you have the Dobb's timekeeping records under your pillow? But don't worry. It's irrelevant. She told us what time she left for work. A little after 1:00pm.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And "a little after 1:00" perfectly fits with Markham witnessing Oswald killing Tippit at 1:14-1:15.
And if she really meant "1:30", then her "in the evening" comment is even more absurd, because 1:30 is even further away from "evening" than is 2:30. (Maybe Farley didn't think of that angle, though.)
It's interesting that it doesn't bother CTers like Lee Farley that Markham's positive IDing of LHO is corroborated by the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE (the bullet shells from LHO's gun, which are shells that prove LHO was the killer, since he still had that same gun on him 35 minutes later).
So, what do the conspiracy clowns do (as always) -- they'll blame the DPD, and say they switched the shells. And they'll even go so far down Patsy Avenue as to pretend that the cops PLANTED Revolver V510210 on Oswald (or just entered that gun into the evidence chain later on).
That's how far off the rails a person needs to go in order to buy into the notion that Lee Oswald was innocent of killing Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit.
But Lee Farley is perfectly willing to go that far off the rails. And he has. (What a surprise.)
LEE FARLEY SAID:
You'll always be haunted by the fact that Helen Markham left her house between 1:04-1:07pm and T.F. Bowley's watch will, for the rest of time, be at 1:10pm when he looked at it.
Which means Tippit was killed between 1:07pm and 1:09pm. And that being the case, Oswald didn't do it and your stinking and so-called best evidence is shown up for what it truly is -- fraudulent.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
It doesn't mean anything of the sort, Lee.
Since ALL of the times associated with Oswald's movements after he fled the Book Depository are merely ESTIMATES (and, undeniably, they ARE only estimates and approximations), we cannot say with 100% certainty that Earlene Roberts' timing of how long Oswald stayed inside his Beckley Avenue room is spot-on perfect.
In fact, common sense, coupled with some of Mrs. Roberts' own testimony, would indicate that Oswald was only in his room for a very few seconds--one minute at most. Here's why I say that:
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/in-lee-harvey-oswalds-room.html
So, even if Tippit was killed at 1:07 or 1:09 (or whatever time close to 1:00 you want to come up with), we're really only talking about a very few minutes in real time here. Oswald might very well have left his roominghouse BEFORE 1:00 PM, which would have placed him at Tenth and Patton earlier than 1:14-1:15.
My own opinion (coupled with the excellent and detailed research done on the Tippit murder by author Dale K. Myers) is that Tippit was probably killed at 1:14 to 1:15 PM. But it could conceivably have been earlier, because (as noted) the timing of Lee Harvey Oswald's movements after 12:30 PM is not firmly fixed in stone. And it never was. We can only guess as to the EXACT times.
But, in the final analysis of J.D. Tippit's murder, the hard physical evidence simply HAS to trump all other evidence.
And just because conspiracy theorists like Jim DiEugenio and Lee Farley want to believe that the physical evidence in the Tippit case is "fraudulent" (to use Farley's own term), that doesn't mean that everybody is required to accept such far-fetched notions.
And it's a particularly far-fetched notion in the Tippit case, due to the fact that a DPD officer had been slain. Therefore, according to the theories of people like DiEugenio and Farley, apparently a bunch of cops in charge of investigating the murder of their fellow officer, decided to just IGNORE the real evidence at the scene and, instead, they decided they were going to frame an innocent schnook named Lee Oswald.
Do you realize how silly that proposition is?
I wonder if James DiEugenio or Lee Farley (or any other conspiracist) really do realize how silly that theory truly is. And it certainly is just a "theory". Because no CTer on the planet has proven that ANY evidence that exists against Lee Harvey Oswald in either the JFK or Tippit murder cases is "fraudulent".
LEE FARLEY SAID:
Come now, David. What you propose is contrary to the official version of events. The Warren Commission had to use every trick in the book to get Oswald to Beckley by 1:00 p.m. To the point of getting William Whaley to make a liar out of himself on his second appearance. I don't care how long he was in his room.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But it could be very important, because the Warren Commission's estimated times were being based on Earlene Roberts being RIGHT when she said that Oswald was in his room for "3 or 4 minutes".
But just look at what ELSE Earlene Roberts said:
JOSEPH BALL -- "How long did he [Oswald] stay in the room?"
EARLENE ROBERTS -- "Oh, maybe not over 3 or 4 minutes. Just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and put it on and he went out zipping it." (Emphasis added by DVP.)
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So, from Mrs. Roberts' OWN MOUTH, we have her saying that Lee Oswald likely wasn't in his room any longer than it would take "to go in there and get a jacket and put it on".
Also take note of the words "maybe" and "I guess" in Roberts' Warren Commission testimony there.
In other words, she was GUESSING. That's all. She wasn't timing Oswald with a stopwatch.
And I kinda doubt that it would take 3-4 minutes to just get a jacket. In fact, via the re-enactment done in the 1978 television movie "Ruby & Oswald", it took the actor playing Oswald a mere 22 seconds to do all the things that we're fairly certain Oswald did while he was in his room on 11/22/63 -- e.g., grab his gun and put his jacket on.
But even if the Warren Commission's estimates are correct (with LHO leaving 1026 Beckley at precisely 1:03), there was still time enough for Oswald to get to the Tippit murder site by 1:14 or 1:15 (which is the best estimate for when Tippit's murder took place, being based primarily on the Dallas Police radio tapes, which indicate that Bowley's call to the DPD occurred at 1:18, which followed about 90 seconds of microphone "pumping" by Domingo Benavides prior to Bowley taking the mike).
We know that the trip from 1026 Beckley to 10th & Patton can be done in about 11 minutes. Several people have done it in just that amount of time. (Plus, we can't possibly know how fast Oswald was walking, or exactly what route he took to get there.)
Let me ask you this, Lee:
Do you think it's reasonable to believe that Benavides waited for NINE MINUTES to grab Tippit's radio and start pumping the mike?
And via the most commonly believed scenario among CTers of Tippit being killed at 1:06, you've got Benavides waiting for about TEN FULL MINUTES to get on that radio.
Frankly, Lee, that's goofy. Benavides didn't wait any nine or ten minutes before grabbing that microphone. And you know he didn't.
Hence, via the DPD tapes (and common sense, plus Domingo Benavides' testimony), Tippit was likely shot at about 1:14 or 1:15.
David Von Pein
November 25-26, 2011
More....
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/18411-where-is-the-checkmo-for-oswalds-10/&page=3#comment-239087