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David Belin Proves Oswald Didn't Shoot Tippit...
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Ben Holmes
Apr 14, 2017, 7:54:45 PM4/14/17
to
Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
Even if Roberts was mistaken about the time being AFTER 1.00pm, that still puts Oswald on the scene at the time that Helen Markham's bus is driving away.
Which means that Helen Markham couldn't have been a witness.
David Belin has thus proven that the Warren Commission needed to lie and place the murder at a time when it could *NOT* have happened, in order to place Oswald there.
Watch as all the believers refuse to refute anything stated here in a *credible* manner, with citation.
Even if Roberts was mistaken about the time being AFTER 1.00pm, that still puts Oswald on the scene at the time that Helen Markham's bus is driving away.
Which means that Helen Markham couldn't have been a witness.
David Belin has thus proven that the Warren Commission needed to lie and place the murder at a time when it could *NOT* have happened, in order to place Oswald there.
Watch as all the believers refuse to refute anything stated here in a *credible* manner, with citation.
Bud
Apr 14, 2017, 8:12:57 PM4/14/17
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On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
What does this establish?
> Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
> Even if Roberts was mistaken about the time being AFTER 1.00pm, that still puts Oswald on the scene at the time that Helen Markham's bus is driving away.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11524&relPageId=7
Lancaster 55.
Ben Holmes
Apr 14, 2017, 8:52:47 PM4/14/17
to
On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 5:12:57 PM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
>
> What does this establish?
I can lead a moron to water, but I can't make you drink.
> On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
>
> What does this establish?
> > Even if Roberts was mistaken about the time being AFTER 1.00pm, that still puts Oswald on the scene at the time that Helen Markham's bus is driving away.
>
> The bus schedules indicate the bus stopped at her stop around 1:26.
>
> http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11524&relPageId=7
>
> Lancaster 55.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11029#relPageId=73&tab=page
> > Which means that Helen Markham couldn't have been a witness.
> >
> > David Belin has thus proven that the Warren Commission needed to lie and place the murder at a time when it could *NOT* have happened, in order to place Oswald there.
> >
> > Watch as all the believers refuse to refute anything stated here in a *credible* manner, with citation.
Bud
Apr 15, 2017, 6:12:45 AM4/15/17
to
On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 8:52:47 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 5:12:57 PM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
> >
> > What does this establish?
>
>
> I can lead a moron to water, but I can't make you drink.
This is why I say that it isn`t the information that is a problem, it is the conspiracy retards that are a problem. You ask them to apply information and they can`t do it.
> On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 5:12:57 PM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
> >
> > What does this establish?
>
>
> I can lead a moron to water, but I can't make you drink.
> > > Even if Roberts was mistaken about the time being AFTER 1.00pm, that still puts Oswald on the scene at the time that Helen Markham's bus is driving away.
> >
> > The bus schedules indicate the bus stopped at her stop around 1:26.
> >
> > http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11524&relPageId=7
> >
> > Lancaster 55.
>
>
> You're lying again.
>
> https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11029#relPageId=73&tab=page
Ben Holmes
Apr 15, 2017, 11:13:26 AM4/15/17
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On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:12:45 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 8:52:47 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 5:12:57 PM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > > Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
> > >
> > > What does this establish?
> >
> >
> > I can lead a moron to water, but I can't make you drink.
>
> This is why I say that it isn`t the information that is a problem, it is the conspiracy retards that are a problem. You ask them to apply information and they can`t do it.
What's 1:04 plus 12 minutes?
> On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 8:52:47 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 5:12:57 PM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > > Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
> > >
> > > What does this establish?
> >
> >
> > I can lead a moron to water, but I can't make you drink.
>
> This is why I say that it isn`t the information that is a problem, it is the conspiracy retards that are a problem. You ask them to apply information and they can`t do it.
> > > > Even if Roberts was mistaken about the time being AFTER 1.00pm, that still puts Oswald on the scene at the time that Helen Markham's bus is driving away.
> > >
> > > The bus schedules indicate the bus stopped at her stop around 1:26.
> > >
> > > http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11524&relPageId=7
> > >
> > > Lancaster 55.
> >
> >
> > You're lying again.
> >
> > https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11029#relPageId=73&tab=page
>
> How is the bus schedule I produced lying? It indicates the buses run about every hour, and one would be at that stop around 1:26.
Bud
Apr 15, 2017, 1:33:03 PM4/15/17
to
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 11:13:26 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:12:45 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 8:52:47 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 5:12:57 PM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > > > Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
> > > >
> > > > What does this establish?
> > >
> > >
> > > I can lead a moron to water, but I can't make you drink.
> >
> > This is why I say that it isn`t the information that is a problem, it is the conspiracy retards that are a problem. You ask them to apply information and they can`t do it.
>
>
> What's 1:04 plus 12 minutes?
What does that have to do with anything?
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:12:45 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 8:52:47 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 5:12:57 PM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > > > Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
> > > >
> > > > What does this establish?
> > >
> > >
> > > I can lead a moron to water, but I can't make you drink.
> >
> > This is why I say that it isn`t the information that is a problem, it is the conspiracy retards that are a problem. You ask them to apply information and they can`t do it.
>
>
> What's 1:04 plus 12 minutes?
You are pretending you have data to work with.
> > > > > Even if Roberts was mistaken about the time being AFTER 1.00pm, that still puts Oswald on the scene at the time that Helen Markham's bus is driving away.
> > > >
> > > > The bus schedules indicate the bus stopped at her stop around 1:26.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11524&relPageId=7
> > > >
> > > > Lancaster 55.
> > >
> > >
> > > You're lying again.
> > >
> > > https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11029#relPageId=73&tab=page
> >
> > How is the bus schedule I produced lying? It indicates the buses run about every hour, and one would be at that stop around 1:26.
>
>
> You're lying again, "Bud."
Ben Holmes
Apr 15, 2017, 1:59:01 PM4/15/17
to
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 10:33:03 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 11:13:26 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:12:45 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 8:52:47 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 5:12:57 PM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > > > > Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
> > > > >
> > > > > What does this establish?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I can lead a moron to water, but I can't make you drink.
> > >
> > > This is why I say that it isn`t the information that is a problem, it is the conspiracy retards that are a problem. You ask them to apply information and they can`t do it.
> >
> >
> > What's 1:04 plus 12 minutes?
>
> What does that have to do with anything?
"You ask them to apply information and they can`t do it."
What a moron!!!
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 11:13:26 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:12:45 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 8:52:47 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 5:12:57 PM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:54:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > > > > Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
> > > > >
> > > > > What does this establish?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I can lead a moron to water, but I can't make you drink.
> > >
> > > This is why I say that it isn`t the information that is a problem, it is the conspiracy retards that are a problem. You ask them to apply information and they can`t do it.
> >
> >
> > What's 1:04 plus 12 minutes?
>
> What does that have to do with anything?
"You ask them to apply information and they can`t do it."
David Von Pein
Apr 15, 2017, 3:01:02 PM4/15/17
to
BUD SAID:
The bus schedules indicate the bus stopped at her stop around 1:26.
DAVID VON PEIN ASKS:
The bus schedules indicate the bus stopped at her stop around 1:26.
Where on any of these bus schedules does it say "1:26", Bud? I can't seem to find that time shown anywhere here....
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11524&relPageId=7
donald willis
Apr 15, 2017, 3:01:46 PM4/15/17
to
On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 4:54:45 PM UTC-7, Ben Holmes wrote:
> Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
>
> Even if Roberts was mistaken about the time being AFTER 1.00pm, that still puts Oswald on the scene at the time that Helen Markham's bus is driving away.
>
> Which means that Helen Markham couldn't have been a witness.
I agree. But I think she wasn't a witness because she got to the scene too *late* to see any shooting or gunman. The revised "With Malice" shows that Markham was screaming that the gunman she saw was in a taxi leaving the scene. Apparently, the hysterical woman (as other witnesses portray her) thought that either Scoggins or Callaway was the perp, because one of the two was holding Tippit's revolver....
> Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes.
>
> Even if Roberts was mistaken about the time being AFTER 1.00pm, that still puts Oswald on the scene at the time that Helen Markham's bus is driving away.
>
> Which means that Helen Markham couldn't have been a witness.
dcw
Ben Holmes
Apr 15, 2017, 3:03:16 PM4/15/17
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He's lying in support of your common faith.
Bud
Apr 15, 2017, 3:34:17 PM4/15/17
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https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/DfAImX9BK7c/K3N9-KC3KGEJ
Bud
Apr 15, 2017, 3:35:24 PM4/15/17
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Ben Holmes
Apr 15, 2017, 4:03:28 PM4/15/17
to
Ben Holmes
Apr 15, 2017, 4:04:05 PM4/15/17
to
David Von Pein
Apr 15, 2017, 4:11:43 PM4/15/17
to
Ben Holmes
Apr 15, 2017, 4:21:45 PM4/15/17
to
Tell us David, why do you believe that "Bud" can label Bugliosi a liar and get away with it?
Bud
Apr 15, 2017, 4:32:41 PM4/15/17
to
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 4:21:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 1:11:43 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:34:17 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:01:02 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > > BUD SAID:
> > > >
> > > > The bus schedules indicate the bus stopped at her stop around 1:26.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > DAVID VON PEIN ASKS:
> > > >
> > > > Where on any of these bus schedules does it say "1:26", Bud? I can't seem to find that time shown anywhere here....
> > > >
> > > > http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11524&relPageId=7
> > >
> > > It doesn`t say, it indicates. This post provides the support....
> > >
> > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/DfAImX9BK7c/K3N9-KC3KGEJ
> >
> > Ten-Four. Thanks.
>
> Yep... one liar covering up for another.
Using ad hominem admitting you`ve lost.
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 1:11:43 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:34:17 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:01:02 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > > BUD SAID:
> > > >
> > > > The bus schedules indicate the bus stopped at her stop around 1:26.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > DAVID VON PEIN ASKS:
> > > >
> > > > Where on any of these bus schedules does it say "1:26", Bud? I can't seem to find that time shown anywhere here....
> > > >
> > > > http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11524&relPageId=7
> > >
> > > It doesn`t say, it indicates. This post provides the support....
> > >
> > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/DfAImX9BK7c/K3N9-KC3KGEJ
> >
> > Ten-Four. Thanks.
>
> Yep... one liar covering up for another.
> Tell us David, why do you believe that "Bud" can label Bugliosi a liar and get away with it?
Bud
Apr 15, 2017, 4:33:37 PM4/15/17
to
Bud
Apr 15, 2017, 4:34:07 PM4/15/17
to
Ben Holmes
Apr 15, 2017, 4:41:51 PM4/15/17
to
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 1:32:41 PM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 4:21:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 1:11:43 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:34:17 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:01:02 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > > > BUD SAID:
> > > > >
> > > > > The bus schedules indicate the bus stopped at her stop around 1:26.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > DAVID VON PEIN ASKS:
> > > > >
> > > > > Where on any of these bus schedules does it say "1:26", Bud? I can't seem to find that time shown anywhere here....
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11524&relPageId=7
> > > >
> > > > It doesn`t say, it indicates. This post provides the support....
> > > >
> > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/DfAImX9BK7c/K3N9-KC3KGEJ
> > >
> > > Ten-Four. Thanks.
> >
> > Yep... one liar covering up for another.
>
> Using ad hominem admitting you`ve lost.
You seem confused about what constitutes ad hominem.
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 4:21:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 1:11:43 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:34:17 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:01:02 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > > > BUD SAID:
> > > > >
> > > > > The bus schedules indicate the bus stopped at her stop around 1:26.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > DAVID VON PEIN ASKS:
> > > > >
> > > > > Where on any of these bus schedules does it say "1:26", Bud? I can't seem to find that time shown anywhere here....
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11524&relPageId=7
> > > >
> > > > It doesn`t say, it indicates. This post provides the support....
> > > >
> > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/DfAImX9BK7c/K3N9-KC3KGEJ
> > >
> > > Ten-Four. Thanks.
> >
> > Yep... one liar covering up for another.
>
> Using ad hominem admitting you`ve lost.
David Von Pein
Apr 15, 2017, 5:02:32 PM4/15/17
to
Why are you so anxious to hang a "liar" label on Vince B. at every turn in the road? He didn't "LIE" at all about this bus schedule thing. He was giving his OPINION about Markham's testimony and FBI statements. And those opinions make a lot of sense to me. Why doesn't this VB quote make sense to you, Ben?....
"It requires NO intelligence to read a watch or clock, and though the Dallas Transit System advised the FBI that the bus was scheduled to come at 1:12, I find it very hard to believe it routinely came by at that time. If it did, with Markham thinking it came by at 1:15, I wonder how she didn’t miss the bus a lot and was able to keep her job." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi
Ben Holmes
Apr 15, 2017, 5:19:41 PM4/15/17
to
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 2:02:32 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 4:21:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 1:11:43 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:34:17 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:01:02 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > > > BUD SAID:
> > > > >
> > > > > The bus schedules indicate the bus stopped at her stop around 1:26.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > DAVID VON PEIN ASKS:
> > > > >
> > > > > Where on any of these bus schedules does it say "1:26", Bud? I can't seem to find that time shown anywhere here....
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11524&relPageId=7
> > > >
> > > > It doesn`t say, it indicates. This post provides the support....
> > > >
> > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/DfAImX9BK7c/K3N9-KC3KGEJ
> > >
> > > Ten-Four. Thanks.
> >
> > Yep... one liar covering up for another.
> >
> > Tell us David, why do you believe that "Bud" can label Bugliosi a liar and get away with it?
>
> I have no idea why you're labelling Bugliosi a "liar" in this "bus schedule" regard. It seems to me that Vince pretty much AGREES with Bud's analysis on this thing
You're a GUTLESS liar...
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 4:21:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 1:11:43 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:34:17 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:01:02 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > > > BUD SAID:
> > > > >
> > > > > The bus schedules indicate the bus stopped at her stop around 1:26.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > DAVID VON PEIN ASKS:
> > > > >
> > > > > Where on any of these bus schedules does it say "1:26", Bud? I can't seem to find that time shown anywhere here....
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11524&relPageId=7
> > > >
> > > > It doesn`t say, it indicates. This post provides the support....
> > > >
> > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/DfAImX9BK7c/K3N9-KC3KGEJ
> > >
> > > Ten-Four. Thanks.
> >
> > Yep... one liar covering up for another.
> >
> > Tell us David, why do you believe that "Bud" can label Bugliosi a liar and get away with it?
>
> I have no idea why you're labelling Bugliosi a "liar" in this "bus schedule" regard. It seems to me that Vince pretty much AGREES with Bud's analysis on this thing
If Bugliosi doesn't agree with Helen Markham on a THREE MINUTE DIFFERENCE, there's no possible way that he'd agree with a difference almost FOUR TIMES LARGER.
Tell us David - why would you pretend that Bugliosi would accept an Eleven minute difference when he refused to accept a three minute difference?
You won't answer, of course... you're just too gutless of a coward to honestly address the evidence.
Bud
Apr 15, 2017, 5:59:27 PM4/15/17
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David Von Pein
Apr 15, 2017, 6:04:36 PM4/15/17
to
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/DfAImX9BK7c/K3N9-KC3KGEJ
...then Vince Bugliosi would very likely have been able to accept the "1:26" timing for Markham's bus arrival.
The reason why Bugliosi had trouble accepting the 1:12 time is because if that time were ACTUALLY CORRECT, it would mean that Mrs. Markham would have missed her bus most of the time (if we're to ALSO accept as fact that she caught her bus at 1:15 PM each day). And how likely is it that she was constantly missing the 1:12 bus because she just refused to get there in time? Not very likely, is it?
So, of course, Vince could very easily accept a wider differential in time, because it would mean Markham **wouldn't be missing her bus every single day**.
Makes sense, doesn't it Holmes? Or would you rather continue your daily habit of being an obnoxious prick by calling me a "GUTLESS liar" one or two more times before this day is done?
Ben Holmes
Apr 15, 2017, 6:14:00 PM4/15/17
to
Bugliosi made it quite clear what his reasoning was...
You're simply too dishonest to acknowledge it.
Bugliosi would be ashamed of you...
Message has been deleted
Ben Holmes
Apr 15, 2017, 6:32:17 PM4/15/17
to
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 3:29:44 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> You're nuts.
Yep... dishonest people often pretend that of honest ones...
"Red" or "Green?"
Yep... dishonest people often pretend that of honest ones...
"Red" or "Green?"
Bud
Apr 15, 2017, 6:34:55 PM4/15/17
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This is why the bus schedule makes more sense than the FBI report. This is an older woman who is going to be on her feet the next eight hours. Does it make sense she would leave so early?
David Von Pein
Apr 15, 2017, 6:49:01 PM4/15/17
to
"I find it very hard to believe it routinely came by at that [1:12 PM] time. If it did, with Markham thinking it came by at 1:15, I wonder how she didn’t miss the bus a lot and was able to keep her job." -- VB
Now, who would routinely get to a bus stop at 1:15 to try and catch a 1:12 bus? That's why Bugliosi had doubts about the "1:12" time.
My guess is that Helen Markham very likely timed it so that she would be at the Jefferson & Patton bus stop at approximately 1:15 every day, and she would (of course) then catch the next bus to come by that was going downtown (whenever that was, at 1:22, or 1:26, whenever). That way, she would be a little early to catch the next bus. Makes sense to me anyway. And the FBI report in CD630 clearly indicates that "the bus is scheduled to pass this point [at Patton and Jefferson] at about 1:12 PM and every ten minutes thereafter".
So it's fairly clear that if Mrs. Markham didn't catch the 1:12 bus, she could have caught another bus at about 1:22 or 1:32. And since she didn't have to be at work until 2:30 PM, there was plenty of time to spare, even if she had to take one of those later busses.
But it makes no sense for her to regularly get to the bus stop at 1:15 if she was REALLY trying to catch a 1:12 bus. That's crazy.
Ben Holmes
Apr 15, 2017, 7:03:11 PM4/15/17
to
Speculation doesn't over-ride the actual evidence...
Bud
Apr 15, 2017, 7:09:08 PM4/15/17
to
David Von Pein
Apr 15, 2017, 8:58:00 PM4/15/17
to
Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
LEE FARLEY SAID:
Your logic goes something like this:
We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
2:30 PM, Lee. That gave her plenty of time to get to work on time even if she missed the bus at 1:12. The busses left every ten minutes along that route on Jefferson Boulevard. So she could have easily gotten on the 1:22 bus and had ample time to get to her job before 2:30 (even if she normally did want to make the 1:12 bus each day).
And I'd be willing to bet you my next disinfo check that Mrs. Markham didn't always make the 1:12 bus every day.
Why do I say that?
Because the fact is -- She simply didn't NEED to make the specific 1:12 bus in order to get to work by 2:30.
I'd wager that there were many days when she had to settle for the 1:22 bus, or the 1:32....which would still give her plenty of time to get to work by 2:30 (even if the bus was practically crawling every step of the way).
-------------------------
HELEN MARKHAM -- "Eat Well Restaurant, 1404 Main Street, Dallas, Tex."
JOE BALL -- "Were you working there on November 22, 1963?"
MARKHAM -- "I was."
BALL -- "What hours did you work?"
MARKHAM -- "I was due at work from 2:30 in the evening until 10:30 at night." *
* Mrs. Markham really meant to say "2:30 in the afternoon", of course, since 2:30 PM is far from being "in the evening". But I would imagine that some conspiracy theorists want to bite her head off for making that simple error.
LEE FARLEY SAID:
Let me say this reeeeeeeeal sloooooow for you.
Markham had a regular bus. The regular bus was 1:12. She said (UNDER OATH) that she left at her regular time so she could catch her regular bus. Got that? What is it that you fail to grasp on this point?
I don't give a flying rat's ass what you believe about whether she could have gotten a later bus. Keep what you believe to yourself.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
It'd be nice if you would follow that same advice. Because the things you believe should, indeed, be kept to yourself (due to their built-in silliness).
LEE FARLEY SAID:
How do you know she [Markham] didn't mean to say she was due at work at 1:30 in the afternoon? Do you have the Dobb's timekeeping records under your pillow? But don't worry. It's irrelevant. She told us what time she left for work. A little after 1:00pm.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And "a little after 1:00" perfectly fits with Markham witnessing Oswald killing Tippit at 1:14-1:15.
And if she really meant "1:30", then her "in the evening" comment is even more absurd, because 1:30 is even further away from "evening" than is 2:30. (Maybe Farley didn't think of that angle, though.)
It's interesting that it doesn't bother CTers like Lee Farley that Markham's positive IDing of LHO is corroborated by the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE (the bullet shells from LHO's gun, which are shells that prove LHO was the killer, since he still had that same gun on him 35 minutes later).
So, what do the conspiracy clowns do (as always) -- they'll blame the DPD, and say they switched the shells. And they'll even go so far down Patsy Avenue as to pretend that the cops PLANTED Revolver V510210 on Oswald (or just entered that gun into the evidence chain later on).
That's how far off the rails a person needs to go in order to buy into the notion that Lee Oswald was innocent of killing Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit.
But Lee Farley is perfectly willing to go that far off the rails. And he has. (What a surprise.)
LEE FARLEY SAID:
You'll always be haunted by the fact that Helen Markham left her house between 1:04-1:07pm and T.F. Bowley's watch will, for the rest of time, be at 1:10pm when he looked at it.
Which means Tippit was killed between 1:07pm and 1:09pm. And that being the case, Oswald didn't do it and your stinking and so-called best evidence is shown up for what it truly is -- fraudulent.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
It doesn't mean anything of the sort, Lee.
Since ALL of the times associated with Oswald's movements after he fled the Book Depository are merely ESTIMATES (and, undeniably, they ARE only estimates and approximations), we cannot say with 100% certainty that Earlene Roberts' timing of how long Oswald stayed inside his Beckley Avenue room is spot-on perfect.
In fact, common sense, coupled with some of Mrs. Roberts' own testimony, would indicate that Oswald was only in his room for a very few seconds--one minute at most. Here's why I say that:
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/in-lee-harvey-oswalds-room.html
So, even if Tippit was killed at 1:07 or 1:09 (or whatever time close to 1:00 you want to come up with), we're really only talking about a very few minutes in real time here. Oswald might very well have left his roominghouse BEFORE 1:00 PM, which would have placed him at Tenth and Patton earlier than 1:14-1:15.
My own opinion (coupled with the excellent and detailed research done on the Tippit murder by author Dale K. Myers) is that Tippit was probably killed at 1:14 to 1:15 PM. But it could conceivably have been earlier, because (as noted) the timing of Lee Harvey Oswald's movements after 12:30 PM is not firmly fixed in stone. And it never was. We can only guess as to the EXACT times.
But, in the final analysis of J.D. Tippit's murder, the hard physical evidence simply HAS to trump all other evidence.
And just because conspiracy theorists like Jim DiEugenio and Lee Farley want to believe that the physical evidence in the Tippit case is "fraudulent" (to use Farley's own term), that doesn't mean that everybody is required to accept such far-fetched notions.
And it's a particularly far-fetched notion in the Tippit case, due to the fact that a DPD officer had been slain. Therefore, according to the theories of people like DiEugenio and Farley, apparently a bunch of cops in charge of investigating the murder of their fellow officer, decided to just IGNORE the real evidence at the scene and, instead, they decided they were going to frame an innocent schnook named Lee Oswald.
Do you realize how silly that proposition is?
I wonder if James DiEugenio or Lee Farley (or any other conspiracist) really do realize how silly that theory truly is. And it certainly is just a "theory". Because no CTer on the planet has proven that ANY evidence that exists against Lee Harvey Oswald in either the JFK or Tippit murder cases is "fraudulent".
LEE FARLEY SAID:
Come now, David. What you propose is contrary to the official version of events. The Warren Commission had to use every trick in the book to get Oswald to Beckley by 1:00 p.m. To the point of getting William Whaley to make a liar out of himself on his second appearance. I don't care how long he was in his room.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But it could be very important, because the Warren Commission's estimated times were being based on Earlene Roberts being RIGHT when she said that Oswald was in his room for "3 or 4 minutes".
But just look at what ELSE Earlene Roberts said:
JOSEPH BALL -- "How long did he [Oswald] stay in the room?"
EARLENE ROBERTS -- "Oh, maybe not over 3 or 4 minutes. Just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and put it on and he went out zipping it." (Emphasis added by DVP.)
------------
So, from Mrs. Roberts' OWN MOUTH, we have her saying that Lee Oswald likely wasn't in his room any longer than it would take "to go in there and get a jacket and put it on".
Also take note of the words "maybe" and "I guess" in Roberts' Warren Commission testimony there.
In other words, she was GUESSING. That's all. She wasn't timing Oswald with a stopwatch.
And I kinda doubt that it would take 3-4 minutes to just get a jacket. In fact, via the re-enactment done in the 1978 television movie "Ruby & Oswald", it took the actor playing Oswald a mere 22 seconds to do all the things that we're fairly certain Oswald did while he was in his room on 11/22/63 -- e.g., grab his gun and put his jacket on.
But even if the Warren Commission's estimates are correct (with LHO leaving 1026 Beckley at precisely 1:03), there was still time enough for Oswald to get to the Tippit murder site by 1:14 or 1:15 (which is the best estimate for when Tippit's murder took place, being based primarily on the Dallas Police radio tapes, which indicate that Bowley's call to the DPD occurred at 1:18, which followed about 90 seconds of microphone "pumping" by Domingo Benavides prior to Bowley taking the mike).
We know that the trip from 1026 Beckley to 10th & Patton can be done in about 11 minutes. Several people have done it in just that amount of time. (Plus, we can't possibly know how fast Oswald was walking, or exactly what route he took to get there.)
Let me ask you this, Lee:
Do you think it's reasonable to believe that Benavides waited for NINE MINUTES to grab Tippit's radio and start pumping the mike?
And via the most commonly believed scenario among CTers of Tippit being killed at 1:06, you've got Benavides waiting for about TEN FULL MINUTES to get on that radio.
Frankly, Lee, that's goofy. Benavides didn't wait any nine or ten minutes before grabbing that microphone. And you know he didn't.
Hence, via the DPD tapes (and common sense, plus Domingo Benavides' testimony), Tippit was likely shot at about 1:14 or 1:15.
David Von Pein
November 25-26, 2011
More....
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/18411-where-is-the-checkmo-for-oswalds-10/&page=3#comment-239087
LEE FARLEY SAID:
Your logic goes something like this:
We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
2:30 PM, Lee. That gave her plenty of time to get to work on time even if she missed the bus at 1:12. The busses left every ten minutes along that route on Jefferson Boulevard. So she could have easily gotten on the 1:22 bus and had ample time to get to her job before 2:30 (even if she normally did want to make the 1:12 bus each day).
And I'd be willing to bet you my next disinfo check that Mrs. Markham didn't always make the 1:12 bus every day.
Why do I say that?
Because the fact is -- She simply didn't NEED to make the specific 1:12 bus in order to get to work by 2:30.
I'd wager that there were many days when she had to settle for the 1:22 bus, or the 1:32....which would still give her plenty of time to get to work by 2:30 (even if the bus was practically crawling every step of the way).
-------------------------
HELEN MARKHAM -- "Eat Well Restaurant, 1404 Main Street, Dallas, Tex."
JOE BALL -- "Were you working there on November 22, 1963?"
MARKHAM -- "I was."
BALL -- "What hours did you work?"
MARKHAM -- "I was due at work from 2:30 in the evening until 10:30 at night." *
* Mrs. Markham really meant to say "2:30 in the afternoon", of course, since 2:30 PM is far from being "in the evening". But I would imagine that some conspiracy theorists want to bite her head off for making that simple error.
LEE FARLEY SAID:
Let me say this reeeeeeeeal sloooooow for you.
Markham had a regular bus. The regular bus was 1:12. She said (UNDER OATH) that she left at her regular time so she could catch her regular bus. Got that? What is it that you fail to grasp on this point?
I don't give a flying rat's ass what you believe about whether she could have gotten a later bus. Keep what you believe to yourself.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
It'd be nice if you would follow that same advice. Because the things you believe should, indeed, be kept to yourself (due to their built-in silliness).
LEE FARLEY SAID:
How do you know she [Markham] didn't mean to say she was due at work at 1:30 in the afternoon? Do you have the Dobb's timekeeping records under your pillow? But don't worry. It's irrelevant. She told us what time she left for work. A little after 1:00pm.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And "a little after 1:00" perfectly fits with Markham witnessing Oswald killing Tippit at 1:14-1:15.
And if she really meant "1:30", then her "in the evening" comment is even more absurd, because 1:30 is even further away from "evening" than is 2:30. (Maybe Farley didn't think of that angle, though.)
It's interesting that it doesn't bother CTers like Lee Farley that Markham's positive IDing of LHO is corroborated by the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE (the bullet shells from LHO's gun, which are shells that prove LHO was the killer, since he still had that same gun on him 35 minutes later).
So, what do the conspiracy clowns do (as always) -- they'll blame the DPD, and say they switched the shells. And they'll even go so far down Patsy Avenue as to pretend that the cops PLANTED Revolver V510210 on Oswald (or just entered that gun into the evidence chain later on).
That's how far off the rails a person needs to go in order to buy into the notion that Lee Oswald was innocent of killing Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit.
But Lee Farley is perfectly willing to go that far off the rails. And he has. (What a surprise.)
LEE FARLEY SAID:
You'll always be haunted by the fact that Helen Markham left her house between 1:04-1:07pm and T.F. Bowley's watch will, for the rest of time, be at 1:10pm when he looked at it.
Which means Tippit was killed between 1:07pm and 1:09pm. And that being the case, Oswald didn't do it and your stinking and so-called best evidence is shown up for what it truly is -- fraudulent.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
It doesn't mean anything of the sort, Lee.
Since ALL of the times associated with Oswald's movements after he fled the Book Depository are merely ESTIMATES (and, undeniably, they ARE only estimates and approximations), we cannot say with 100% certainty that Earlene Roberts' timing of how long Oswald stayed inside his Beckley Avenue room is spot-on perfect.
In fact, common sense, coupled with some of Mrs. Roberts' own testimony, would indicate that Oswald was only in his room for a very few seconds--one minute at most. Here's why I say that:
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/in-lee-harvey-oswalds-room.html
So, even if Tippit was killed at 1:07 or 1:09 (or whatever time close to 1:00 you want to come up with), we're really only talking about a very few minutes in real time here. Oswald might very well have left his roominghouse BEFORE 1:00 PM, which would have placed him at Tenth and Patton earlier than 1:14-1:15.
My own opinion (coupled with the excellent and detailed research done on the Tippit murder by author Dale K. Myers) is that Tippit was probably killed at 1:14 to 1:15 PM. But it could conceivably have been earlier, because (as noted) the timing of Lee Harvey Oswald's movements after 12:30 PM is not firmly fixed in stone. And it never was. We can only guess as to the EXACT times.
But, in the final analysis of J.D. Tippit's murder, the hard physical evidence simply HAS to trump all other evidence.
And just because conspiracy theorists like Jim DiEugenio and Lee Farley want to believe that the physical evidence in the Tippit case is "fraudulent" (to use Farley's own term), that doesn't mean that everybody is required to accept such far-fetched notions.
And it's a particularly far-fetched notion in the Tippit case, due to the fact that a DPD officer had been slain. Therefore, according to the theories of people like DiEugenio and Farley, apparently a bunch of cops in charge of investigating the murder of their fellow officer, decided to just IGNORE the real evidence at the scene and, instead, they decided they were going to frame an innocent schnook named Lee Oswald.
Do you realize how silly that proposition is?
I wonder if James DiEugenio or Lee Farley (or any other conspiracist) really do realize how silly that theory truly is. And it certainly is just a "theory". Because no CTer on the planet has proven that ANY evidence that exists against Lee Harvey Oswald in either the JFK or Tippit murder cases is "fraudulent".
LEE FARLEY SAID:
Come now, David. What you propose is contrary to the official version of events. The Warren Commission had to use every trick in the book to get Oswald to Beckley by 1:00 p.m. To the point of getting William Whaley to make a liar out of himself on his second appearance. I don't care how long he was in his room.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But it could be very important, because the Warren Commission's estimated times were being based on Earlene Roberts being RIGHT when she said that Oswald was in his room for "3 or 4 minutes".
But just look at what ELSE Earlene Roberts said:
JOSEPH BALL -- "How long did he [Oswald] stay in the room?"
EARLENE ROBERTS -- "Oh, maybe not over 3 or 4 minutes. Just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and put it on and he went out zipping it." (Emphasis added by DVP.)
------------
So, from Mrs. Roberts' OWN MOUTH, we have her saying that Lee Oswald likely wasn't in his room any longer than it would take "to go in there and get a jacket and put it on".
Also take note of the words "maybe" and "I guess" in Roberts' Warren Commission testimony there.
In other words, she was GUESSING. That's all. She wasn't timing Oswald with a stopwatch.
And I kinda doubt that it would take 3-4 minutes to just get a jacket. In fact, via the re-enactment done in the 1978 television movie "Ruby & Oswald", it took the actor playing Oswald a mere 22 seconds to do all the things that we're fairly certain Oswald did while he was in his room on 11/22/63 -- e.g., grab his gun and put his jacket on.
But even if the Warren Commission's estimates are correct (with LHO leaving 1026 Beckley at precisely 1:03), there was still time enough for Oswald to get to the Tippit murder site by 1:14 or 1:15 (which is the best estimate for when Tippit's murder took place, being based primarily on the Dallas Police radio tapes, which indicate that Bowley's call to the DPD occurred at 1:18, which followed about 90 seconds of microphone "pumping" by Domingo Benavides prior to Bowley taking the mike).
We know that the trip from 1026 Beckley to 10th & Patton can be done in about 11 minutes. Several people have done it in just that amount of time. (Plus, we can't possibly know how fast Oswald was walking, or exactly what route he took to get there.)
Let me ask you this, Lee:
Do you think it's reasonable to believe that Benavides waited for NINE MINUTES to grab Tippit's radio and start pumping the mike?
And via the most commonly believed scenario among CTers of Tippit being killed at 1:06, you've got Benavides waiting for about TEN FULL MINUTES to get on that radio.
Frankly, Lee, that's goofy. Benavides didn't wait any nine or ten minutes before grabbing that microphone. And you know he didn't.
Hence, via the DPD tapes (and common sense, plus Domingo Benavides' testimony), Tippit was likely shot at about 1:14 or 1:15.
David Von Pein
November 25-26, 2011
More....
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/18411-where-is-the-checkmo-for-oswalds-10/&page=3#comment-239087
Bud
Apr 15, 2017, 9:26:09 PM4/15/17
to
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 8:58:00 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
>
>
> LEE FARLEY SAID:
>
> Your logic goes something like this:
>
> We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
>
>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
> You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
>
> Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
>
> 2:30 PM, Lee. That gave her plenty of time to get to work on time even if she missed the bus at 1:12. The buses left every ten minutes along that route on Jefferson Boulevard. So she could have easily gotten on the 1:22 bus and had ample time to get to her job before 2:30 (even if she normally did want to make the 1:12 bus each day).
> Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
>
>
> LEE FARLEY SAID:
>
> Your logic goes something like this:
>
> We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
>
>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
> You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
>
> Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
>
David, I think you are making a mistake relying on that "a bus every 10 minutes" information. Nowhere will you find buses running every 10 minutes during non-peak service. Here in Philly the buses run about 20-25 minutes during peak morning and evening service, and 40-45 minutes during non-peak times. Think about it, that would be 4 buses running northbound into downtown Dallas and 4 buses running southbound during non-peak service. 8 drivers and eight buses in transit during non-peak service on a single route, the system would be bankrupt. The Lancaster 55 bus schedule showing a bus every hour off-peak is much more reasonable, and it explains why Markham left so early. The next bus came around an hour later, and would likely drop her off near her work after 2:30.
Ben Holmes
Apr 15, 2017, 10:25:38 PM4/15/17
to
Just like "Bud," you're inventing a new time for the bus... one that even Bugliosi never addressed.
The Warren Commission lied... the FBI lied... Vincent Bugliosi lied...
They all lied...
And with no foundation for your opinions, they cease to have any relevance...
Ben Holmes
Apr 15, 2017, 10:26:39 PM4/15/17
to
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 5:58:00 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
You've lost already.
> Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
Ad hominem merely shows that you don't have the evidence to debate...
David Von Pein
Apr 15, 2017, 11:32:38 PM4/15/17
to
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 9:26:09 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 8:58:00 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
> >
> >
> > LEE FARLEY SAID:
> >
> > Your logic goes something like this:
> >
> > We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
> >
> >
> > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> >
> > You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
> >
> > Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
> >
> > 2:30 PM, Lee. That gave her plenty of time to get to work on time even if she missed the bus at 1:12. The buses left every ten minutes along that route on Jefferson Boulevard. So she could have easily gotten on the 1:22 bus and had ample time to get to her job before 2:30 (even if she normally did want to make the 1:12 bus each day).
>
> David, I think you are making a mistake relying on that "a bus every 10 minutes" information. Nowhere will you find buses running every 10 minutes during non-peak service. Here in Philly the buses run about 20-25 minutes during peak morning and evening service, and 40-45 minutes during non-peak times. Think about it, that would be 4 buses running northbound into downtown Dallas and 4 buses running southbound during non-peak service. 8 drivers and eight buses in transit during non-peak service on a single route, the system would be bankrupt. The Lancaster 55 bus schedule showing a bus every hour off-peak is much more reasonable, and it explains why Markham left so early. The next bus came around an hour later, and would likely drop her off near her work after 2:30.
>
Yes, Bud, I've got to admit that what you just said makes a lot of sense. But if you are correct, then somebody needs to go and yell at the FBI or the Dallas Transit System, because one or the other got something very fouled up in Commission Document No. 630, which clearly indicates that FBI agent Robert M. Barrett, on March 16, 1964, was informed by the Dallas Transit System that a bus could be boarded at Patton & Jefferson "about every ten minutes...during the afternoon hours of every weekday".
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 8:58:00 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
> >
> >
> > LEE FARLEY SAID:
> >
> > Your logic goes something like this:
> >
> > We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
> >
> >
> > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> >
> > You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
> >
> > Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
> >
> > 2:30 PM, Lee. That gave her plenty of time to get to work on time even if she missed the bus at 1:12. The buses left every ten minutes along that route on Jefferson Boulevard. So she could have easily gotten on the 1:22 bus and had ample time to get to her job before 2:30 (even if she normally did want to make the 1:12 bus each day).
>
> David, I think you are making a mistake relying on that "a bus every 10 minutes" information. Nowhere will you find buses running every 10 minutes during non-peak service. Here in Philly the buses run about 20-25 minutes during peak morning and evening service, and 40-45 minutes during non-peak times. Think about it, that would be 4 buses running northbound into downtown Dallas and 4 buses running southbound during non-peak service. 8 drivers and eight buses in transit during non-peak service on a single route, the system would be bankrupt. The Lancaster 55 bus schedule showing a bus every hour off-peak is much more reasonable, and it explains why Markham left so early. The next bus came around an hour later, and would likely drop her off near her work after 2:30.
>
Should we ask for Bob Barrett's resignation? :-)
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-l7C4d1YEKgE/WPLkNS8wCsI/AAAAAAABLrs/Fd4Vgb-UJZsjoUGWZ6_L2mf6H5QcGgRBgCLcB/s1600/CD630.png
Ben Holmes
Apr 15, 2017, 11:49:25 PM4/15/17
to
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 8:32:38 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 9:26:09 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 8:58:00 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
> > >
> > >
> > > LEE FARLEY SAID:
> > >
> > > Your logic goes something like this:
> > >
> > > We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
> > >
> > >
> > > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> > >
> > > You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
> > >
> > > Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
> > >
> > > 2:30 PM, Lee. That gave her plenty of time to get to work on time even if she missed the bus at 1:12. The buses left every ten minutes along that route on Jefferson Boulevard. So she could have easily gotten on the 1:22 bus and had ample time to get to her job before 2:30 (even if she normally did want to make the 1:12 bus each day).
> >
> > David, I think you are making a mistake relying on that "a bus every 10 minutes" information. Nowhere will you find buses running every 10 minutes during non-peak service. Here in Philly the buses run about 20-25 minutes during peak morning and evening service, and 40-45 minutes during non-peak times. Think about it, that would be 4 buses running northbound into downtown Dallas and 4 buses running southbound during non-peak service. 8 drivers and eight buses in transit during non-peak service on a single route, the system would be bankrupt. The Lancaster 55 bus schedule showing a bus every hour off-peak is much more reasonable, and it explains why Markham left so early. The next bus came around an hour later, and would likely drop her off near her work after 2:30.
> >
>
> Yes, Bud, I've got to admit that what you just said makes a lot of sense.
Speculation only replaces the evidence for believers if it supports their faith.
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 9:26:09 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 8:58:00 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
> > >
> > >
> > > LEE FARLEY SAID:
> > >
> > > Your logic goes something like this:
> > >
> > > We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
> > >
> > >
> > > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> > >
> > > You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
> > >
> > > Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
> > >
> > > 2:30 PM, Lee. That gave her plenty of time to get to work on time even if she missed the bus at 1:12. The buses left every ten minutes along that route on Jefferson Boulevard. So she could have easily gotten on the 1:22 bus and had ample time to get to her job before 2:30 (even if she normally did want to make the 1:12 bus each day).
> >
> > David, I think you are making a mistake relying on that "a bus every 10 minutes" information. Nowhere will you find buses running every 10 minutes during non-peak service. Here in Philly the buses run about 20-25 minutes during peak morning and evening service, and 40-45 minutes during non-peak times. Think about it, that would be 4 buses running northbound into downtown Dallas and 4 buses running southbound during non-peak service. 8 drivers and eight buses in transit during non-peak service on a single route, the system would be bankrupt. The Lancaster 55 bus schedule showing a bus every hour off-peak is much more reasonable, and it explains why Markham left so early. The next bus came around an hour later, and would likely drop her off near her work after 2:30.
> >
>
> Yes, Bud, I've got to admit that what you just said makes a lot of sense.
Isn't that right, David?
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 6:36:59 AM4/16/17
to
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 6:45:47 AM4/16/17
to
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 11:32:38 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 9:26:09 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 8:58:00 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
> > >
> > >
> > > LEE FARLEY SAID:
> > >
> > > Your logic goes something like this:
> > >
> > > We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
> > >
> > >
> > > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> > >
> > > You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
> > >
> > > Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
> > >
> > > 2:30 PM, Lee. That gave her plenty of time to get to work on time even if she missed the bus at 1:12. The buses left every ten minutes along that route on Jefferson Boulevard. So she could have easily gotten on the 1:22 bus and had ample time to get to her job before 2:30 (even if she normally did want to make the 1:12 bus each day).
> >
> > David, I think you are making a mistake relying on that "a bus every 10 minutes" information. Nowhere will you find buses running every 10 minutes during non-peak service. Here in Philly the buses run about 20-25 minutes during peak morning and evening service, and 40-45 minutes during non-peak times. Think about it, that would be 4 buses running northbound into downtown Dallas and 4 buses running southbound during non-peak service. 8 drivers and eight buses in transit during non-peak service on a single route, the system would be bankrupt. The Lancaster 55 bus schedule showing a bus every hour off-peak is much more reasonable, and it explains why Markham left so early. The next bus came around an hour later, and would likely drop her off near her work after 2:30.
> >
>
> Yes, Bud, I've got to admit that what you just said makes a lot of sense. But if you are correct, then somebody needs to go and yell at the FBI or the Dallas Transit System, because one or the other got something very fouled up in Commission Document No. 630, which clearly indicates that FBI agent Robert M. Barrett, on March 16, 1964, was informed by the Dallas Transit System that a bus could be boarded at Patton & Jefferson "about every ten minutes...during the afternoon hours of every weekday".
If the FBI document doesn`t make sense the best course of action is to disregard it. The Lancaster 55 bus schedule *does* make sense, so that evidence should be given priority. The bus schedule also makes sense as to why Markham was leaving so early, the next bus came in an hour and she would be late for work taking that bus.
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 9:26:09 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 8:58:00 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
> > >
> > >
> > > LEE FARLEY SAID:
> > >
> > > Your logic goes something like this:
> > >
> > > We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
> > >
> > >
> > > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> > >
> > > You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
> > >
> > > Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
> > >
> > > 2:30 PM, Lee. That gave her plenty of time to get to work on time even if she missed the bus at 1:12. The buses left every ten minutes along that route on Jefferson Boulevard. So she could have easily gotten on the 1:22 bus and had ample time to get to her job before 2:30 (even if she normally did want to make the 1:12 bus each day).
> >
> > David, I think you are making a mistake relying on that "a bus every 10 minutes" information. Nowhere will you find buses running every 10 minutes during non-peak service. Here in Philly the buses run about 20-25 minutes during peak morning and evening service, and 40-45 minutes during non-peak times. Think about it, that would be 4 buses running northbound into downtown Dallas and 4 buses running southbound during non-peak service. 8 drivers and eight buses in transit during non-peak service on a single route, the system would be bankrupt. The Lancaster 55 bus schedule showing a bus every hour off-peak is much more reasonable, and it explains why Markham left so early. The next bus came around an hour later, and would likely drop her off near her work after 2:30.
> >
>
> Yes, Bud, I've got to admit that what you just said makes a lot of sense. But if you are correct, then somebody needs to go and yell at the FBI or the Dallas Transit System, because one or the other got something very fouled up in Commission Document No. 630, which clearly indicates that FBI agent Robert M. Barrett, on March 16, 1964, was informed by the Dallas Transit System that a bus could be boarded at Patton & Jefferson "about every ten minutes...during the afternoon hours of every weekday".
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 6:49:17 AM4/16/17
to
A bus every 10 minutes is absurd. A conspiracy retard will always cling to absurdities.
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 1:22:15 PM4/16/17
to
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 1:23:32 PM4/16/17
to
On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 3:45:47 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 11:32:38 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 9:26:09 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 8:58:00 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > > Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > LEE FARLEY SAID:
> > > >
> > > > Your logic goes something like this:
> > > >
> > > > We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> > > >
> > > > You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
> > > >
> > > > Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
> > > >
> > > > 2:30 PM, Lee. That gave her plenty of time to get to work on time even if she missed the bus at 1:12. The buses left every ten minutes along that route on Jefferson Boulevard. So she could have easily gotten on the 1:22 bus and had ample time to get to her job before 2:30 (even if she normally did want to make the 1:12 bus each day).
> > >
> > > David, I think you are making a mistake relying on that "a bus every 10 minutes" information. Nowhere will you find buses running every 10 minutes during non-peak service. Here in Philly the buses run about 20-25 minutes during peak morning and evening service, and 40-45 minutes during non-peak times. Think about it, that would be 4 buses running northbound into downtown Dallas and 4 buses running southbound during non-peak service. 8 drivers and eight buses in transit during non-peak service on a single route, the system would be bankrupt. The Lancaster 55 bus schedule showing a bus every hour off-peak is much more reasonable, and it explains why Markham left so early. The next bus came around an hour later, and would likely drop her off near her work after 2:30.
> > >
> >
> > Yes, Bud, I've got to admit that what you just said makes a lot of sense. But if you are correct, then somebody needs to go and yell at the FBI or the Dallas Transit System, because one or the other got something very fouled up in Commission Document No. 630, which clearly indicates that FBI agent Robert M. Barrett, on March 16, 1964, was informed by the Dallas Transit System that a bus could be boarded at Patton & Jefferson "about every ten minutes...during the afternoon hours of every weekday".
>
> If the FBI document doesn`t make sense the best course of action is to disregard it.
Disregarding the proof that Tippit was murdered before 1:16 is merely your faith.
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 11:32:38 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 9:26:09 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 8:58:00 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > > Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > LEE FARLEY SAID:
> > > >
> > > > Your logic goes something like this:
> > > >
> > > > We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> > > >
> > > > You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
> > > >
> > > > Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
> > > >
> > > > 2:30 PM, Lee. That gave her plenty of time to get to work on time even if she missed the bus at 1:12. The buses left every ten minutes along that route on Jefferson Boulevard. So she could have easily gotten on the 1:22 bus and had ample time to get to her job before 2:30 (even if she normally did want to make the 1:12 bus each day).
> > >
> > > David, I think you are making a mistake relying on that "a bus every 10 minutes" information. Nowhere will you find buses running every 10 minutes during non-peak service. Here in Philly the buses run about 20-25 minutes during peak morning and evening service, and 40-45 minutes during non-peak times. Think about it, that would be 4 buses running northbound into downtown Dallas and 4 buses running southbound during non-peak service. 8 drivers and eight buses in transit during non-peak service on a single route, the system would be bankrupt. The Lancaster 55 bus schedule showing a bus every hour off-peak is much more reasonable, and it explains why Markham left so early. The next bus came around an hour later, and would likely drop her off near her work after 2:30.
> > >
> >
> > Yes, Bud, I've got to admit that what you just said makes a lot of sense. But if you are correct, then somebody needs to go and yell at the FBI or the Dallas Transit System, because one or the other got something very fouled up in Commission Document No. 630, which clearly indicates that FBI agent Robert M. Barrett, on March 16, 1964, was informed by the Dallas Transit System that a bus could be boarded at Patton & Jefferson "about every ten minutes...during the afternoon hours of every weekday".
>
> If the FBI document doesn`t make sense the best course of action is to disregard it.
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 1:45:57 PM4/16/17
to
But what I was doing was something different, applying reason to information. You should try it, just to see what it is like.
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 1:51:59 PM4/16/17
to
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 4:00:21 PM4/16/17
to
I have no need to speculate - this is what believers do all the time. For example, AS YOU JUST DID ABOVE.
Tell us "Bud," do you really expect to convince anyone with lies?
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 4:02:00 PM4/16/17
to
The evidence *against* the theory that Oswald shot Tippit is quite extensive.
Indeed, you simply deny much of it... as you do with the bus schedule.
Using ad hominem rather than the evidence shows that *YOU* know you lost.
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 4:43:36 PM4/16/17
to
> I have no need to speculate - this is what believers do all the time. For example, AS YOU JUST DID ABOVE.
> Tell us "Bud," do you really expect to convince anyone with lies?
David Von Pein
Apr 16, 2017, 4:43:42 PM4/16/17
to
The *actual* "evidence" (as opposed to the "evidence" that only exists in a CTer's imagination) is providing the conclusive PROOF that Lee Oswald--and only Oswald--was the killer of J.D. Tippit.
Only a freakish CTer bent on mangling the true facts could possibly even begin to believe otherwise.
~Mark VII~
~Hammer stroke~
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 4:46:14 PM4/16/17
to
> The evidence *against* the theory that Oswald shot Tippit is quite extensive.
> Indeed, you simply deny much of it... as you do with the bus schedule.
And it is you deny the evidence indicating Oswald killed Tippit.
> Using ad hominem rather than the evidence shows that *YOU* know you lost.
David Von Pein
Apr 16, 2017, 5:03:43 PM4/16/17
to
"My guess is that Helen Markham very likely timed it so that she would be at the Jefferson & Patton bus stop at approximately 1:15 every day, and she would (of course) then catch the next bus to come by that was going downtown (whenever that was, at 1:22, or 1:26, whenever). That way, she would be a little early to catch the next bus. Makes sense to me anyway. And the FBI report in CD630 clearly indicates that "the bus is scheduled to pass this point [at Patton and Jefferson] at about 1:12 PM and every ten minutes thereafter"." -- DVP
The above explanation, however, does not explain why Mrs. Markham had a desire to get to work so early every day. But perhaps she was the type of person who just liked to be very early to work, so she left her home extra early so as not to run the risk of being late. Some people are like that. Who can know for certain? Was she ever asked such a question about her regular routine of going to work early? AFAIK, she wasn't.
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 5:47:49 PM4/16/17
to
That's a fact.
> > I have no need to speculate - this is what believers do all the time. For example, AS YOU JUST DID ABOVE.
>
> I applied reality to the information. You are stump, you can`t do this.
> > Tell us "Bud," do you really expect to convince anyone with lies?
>
> Do you really believe a bus stopped at Markham`s stop every ten minutes during non-peak operational service?
The FBI investigated over 50 years ago - you've decided that they can't be correct, yet you've been unable to provide any contemporary evidence for that claim.
Simply labeling the FBI 'wrong' is something anyone can do... and shows that you aren't using the evidence, but supporting your faith.
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 5:48:45 PM4/16/17
to
On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 1:43:42 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 4:02:00 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 10:51:59 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 1:23:32 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 3:45:47 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 11:32:38 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 9:26:09 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 8:58:00 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > > > > > > Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > LEE FARLEY SAID:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your logic goes something like this:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2:30 PM, Lee. That gave her plenty of time to get to work on time even if she missed the bus at 1:12. The buses left every ten minutes along that route on Jefferson Boulevard. So she could have easily gotten on the 1:22 bus and had ample time to get to her job before 2:30 (even if she normally did want to make the 1:12 bus each day).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > David, I think you are making a mistake relying on that "a bus every 10 minutes" information. Nowhere will you find buses running every 10 minutes during non-peak service. Here in Philly the buses run about 20-25 minutes during peak morning and evening service, and 40-45 minutes during non-peak times. Think about it, that would be 4 buses running northbound into downtown Dallas and 4 buses running southbound during non-peak service. 8 drivers and eight buses in transit during non-peak service on a single route, the system would be bankrupt. The Lancaster 55 bus schedule showing a bus every hour off-peak is much more reasonable, and it explains why Markham left so early. The next bus came around an hour later, and would likely drop her off near her work after 2:30.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, Bud, I've got to admit that what you just said makes a lot of sense. But if you are correct, then somebody needs to go and yell at the FBI or the Dallas Transit System, because one or the other got something very fouled up in Commission Document No. 630, which clearly indicates that FBI agent Robert M. Barrett, on March 16, 1964, was informed by the Dallas Transit System that a bus could be boarded at Patton & Jefferson "about every ten minutes...during the afternoon hours of every weekday".
> > > > >
> > > > > If the FBI document doesn`t make sense the best course of action is to disregard it.
> > > >
> > > > Disregarding the proof that Tippit was murdered before 1:16 is merely your faith.
> > >
> > > Disregarding the proof that Oswald killed Tippit is merely your retardation.
> >
> > What "proof?"
> >
> > The evidence *against* the theory that Oswald shot Tippit is quite extensive.
> >
>
> In actuality, the "EVIDENCE" to show that Oswald was innocent of shooting Officer Tippit is *NON-EXISTENT*.
You're lying again, David.
> On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 4:02:00 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 10:51:59 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 1:23:32 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 3:45:47 AM UTC-7, Bud wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 11:32:38 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 9:26:09 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 8:58:00 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > > > > > > Here's a related discussion regarding Markham and the Tippit murder from November of 2011 when I was arguing about these matters with conspiracy clowns James DiEugenio and Lee Farley at The Education Forum....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > LEE FARLEY SAID:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your logic goes something like this:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We know Oswald shot Tippit because he was caught with the revolver in his hand at the Theater, and if we know he shot Tippit then we know he shot him between 1:14-1:15 because any sooner and he wouldn't have been humanly able to get there, and we know he got there because we know he shot him, and if we know he shot him then we know that Helen Markham's regular bus didn't take her to work every day at 1:12pm. .... You are full of crap, Davey.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You are the one who is "full of crap", Lee Farley.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mrs. Helen Markham wasn't due at work at her job at the "Eat Well Restaurant" until 2:30 PM on 11/22/63.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2:30 PM, Lee. That gave her plenty of time to get to work on time even if she missed the bus at 1:12. The buses left every ten minutes along that route on Jefferson Boulevard. So she could have easily gotten on the 1:22 bus and had ample time to get to her job before 2:30 (even if she normally did want to make the 1:12 bus each day).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > David, I think you are making a mistake relying on that "a bus every 10 minutes" information. Nowhere will you find buses running every 10 minutes during non-peak service. Here in Philly the buses run about 20-25 minutes during peak morning and evening service, and 40-45 minutes during non-peak times. Think about it, that would be 4 buses running northbound into downtown Dallas and 4 buses running southbound during non-peak service. 8 drivers and eight buses in transit during non-peak service on a single route, the system would be bankrupt. The Lancaster 55 bus schedule showing a bus every hour off-peak is much more reasonable, and it explains why Markham left so early. The next bus came around an hour later, and would likely drop her off near her work after 2:30.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, Bud, I've got to admit that what you just said makes a lot of sense. But if you are correct, then somebody needs to go and yell at the FBI or the Dallas Transit System, because one or the other got something very fouled up in Commission Document No. 630, which clearly indicates that FBI agent Robert M. Barrett, on March 16, 1964, was informed by the Dallas Transit System that a bus could be boarded at Patton & Jefferson "about every ten minutes...during the afternoon hours of every weekday".
> > > > >
> > > > > If the FBI document doesn`t make sense the best course of action is to disregard it.
> > > >
> > > > Disregarding the proof that Tippit was murdered before 1:16 is merely your faith.
> > >
> > > Disregarding the proof that Oswald killed Tippit is merely your retardation.
> >
> > What "proof?"
> >
> > The evidence *against* the theory that Oswald shot Tippit is quite extensive.
> >
>
> In actuality, the "EVIDENCE" to show that Oswald was innocent of shooting Officer Tippit is *NON-EXISTENT*.
Do you have the courage to CITE a definition of "evidence?"
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 5:49:08 PM4/16/17
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Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 5:53:33 PM4/16/17
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So you're simply lying again, aren't you David?
It's even clear that you *KNOW* you're lying... because you are quite clearly aware that the Warren Commission said 1:16, not 1:14 or 1:15.
Tell us David, how stupid do you have to be to post lies that are so *OBVIOUSLY* lies?
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 5:55:18 PM4/16/17
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> The above explanation, however, does not explain why Mrs. Markham had a desire to get to work so early every day.
BTW, I found this in the Dallas Police archives, an interview with Earline Roberts where she says she can only furnish a "rough guess" as to when Oswald came in.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/16/1660-001.gif
David Von Pein
Apr 16, 2017, 6:03:50 PM4/16/17
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> So you're simply lying again, aren't you David?
>
> It's even clear that you *KNOW* you're lying... because you are quite clearly aware that the Warren Commission said 1:16, not 1:14 or 1:15.
>
> Tell us David, how stupid do you have to be to post lies that are so *OBVIOUSLY* lies?
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 6:05:41 PM4/16/17
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>
> > > I have no need to speculate - this is what believers do all the time. For example, AS YOU JUST DID ABOVE.
> >
> > I applied reality to the information. You are stump, you can`t do this.
>
>
> "A bus every 10 minutes is absurd." is not information... it's speculation.
>
> > > Tell us "Bud," do you really expect to convince anyone with lies?
> >
> > Do you really believe a bus stopped at Markham`s stop every ten minutes during non-peak operational service?
>
> Not interested...
> The FBI investigated over 50 years ago - you've decided that they can't be correct, yet you've been unable to provide any contemporary evidence for that claim.
> Simply labeling the FBI 'wrong' is something anyone can do... and shows that you aren't using the evidence, but supporting your faith.
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 6:07:34 PM4/16/17
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David Von Pein
Apr 16, 2017, 6:09:04 PM4/16/17
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BUD SAID:
The other indicator of when the shooting occurred is the police radio transcripts. The call for the shooting came in about 1:18. TF Bowley`s time of coming upon Tippit`s body at 1:10 means everyone stood around and looked at Tippit`s lifeless body for eight minutes before doing something. That is an incredibly long time, sit at your computer desk and let 8 minutes pass, see what a L-O-N-G time it is.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The other indicator of when the shooting occurred is the police radio transcripts. The call for the shooting came in about 1:18. TF Bowley`s time of coming upon Tippit`s body at 1:10 means everyone stood around and looked at Tippit`s lifeless body for eight minutes before doing something. That is an incredibly long time, sit at your computer desk and let 8 minutes pass, see what a L-O-N-G time it is.
Indeed, Bud.
Here's what I told a conspiracy clown in 2011 on this subject....
"But even if the Warren Commission's estimates are correct (with LHO leaving 1026 Beckley at precisely 1:03), there was still time enough for Oswald to get to the Tippit murder site by 1:14 or 1:15 (which is the best estimate for when Tippit's murder took place, being based primarily on the Dallas Police radio tapes, which indicate that T.F. Bowley's call to the DPD occurred at 1:18, which followed about 90 seconds of microphone "pumping" by Domingo Benavides prior to Bowley taking the mike).
We know that the trip from 1026 Beckley to 10th & Patton can be done in about 11 minutes. Several people have done it in just that amount of time. (Plus, we can't possibly know how fast Oswald was walking, or exactly what route he took to get there.)
Do you think it's reasonable to believe that Benavides waited for NINE MINUTES to grab Tippit's radio and start pumping the mike?
And via the most commonly believed scenario among CTers of Tippit being killed at 1:06, you've got Benavides waiting for about TEN FULL MINUTES to get on that radio.
Frankly, Lee, that's goofy. Benavides didn't wait any nine or ten minutes before grabbing that microphone. And you know he didn't.
Hence, via the DPD tapes (and common sense, plus Domingo Benavides' testimony), Tippit was likely shot at about 1:14 or 1:15."
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 6:54:56 PM4/16/17
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You know VERY WELL (indeed, you've referenced it on your website) - that the Warren Commission did *NOT* say 1:14 or 1:15.
You know quite well that they specified 1:16.
You think you can get away with fudging the time...
I think you're beginning to get stupid.
WHAT WOULD REASONABLY LEAD YOU TO THINK THAT I WOULDN'T POINT OUT THE CORRECT TIME?
WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT ANY KNOWLEDGEABLE CRITIC WOULDN'T CORRECT YOU ON THIS?
What were you thinking???
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 6:57:52 PM4/16/17
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And since you won't answer that one... here's another: "Red" or "Green?"
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 6:58:46 PM4/16/17
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It's *STILL* speculation.
It's *NOT* a "conclusion" based on evidence.
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 7:04:52 PM4/16/17
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Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 7:05:29 PM4/16/17
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Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 7:06:53 PM4/16/17
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> > So you're simply lying again, aren't you David?
> >
>
> Never. You're just being an ignorant prick (yet again).
And how can I be an "ignorant" anything? I keep schooling you on the evidence that *YOU* clearly don't know.
> > It's even clear that you *KNOW* you're lying... because you are quite clearly aware that the Warren Commission said 1:16, not 1:14 or 1:15.
> >
>
> Yeah, let's allow LHO to go free because of that ONE-MINUTE difference in the TIME ESTIMATES (which all they are, of course, even mine and Dale Myers' --- "ESTIMATES").
YOU KNEW FOR A FACT that the Warren Commission put it at 1:16... you refused to use the same time that the Warren Commission did - and you did it thinking, for some strange reason, that you wouldn't be caught lying.
This is a perfect example..
You claim not to lie - yet on an issue that hangs on mere minutes, YOU'RE CLEARLY LYING ON AN ISSUE THAT ANY KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSON WOULD SPOT INSTANTLY.
> > Tell us David, how stupid do you have to be to post lies that are so *OBVIOUSLY* lies?
>
> Still being a prick, I see. How sweet.
You knew - YOU **KNEW** - that the time specified by the Warren Commission was 1:16.
They could easily have stated 1:14, or 1:15... but they didn't. They had reasons for their decision to select 1:16.
And you know that reason, don't you?
Let's go back to the very first post in this thread... "Commission Counsel David Belin walked the SHORTEST distance between the bus stop where Earlene Roberts last saw Oswald, and the Tippit murder scene, and managed to do so in 12 minutes."
Since you refuse to refute that statement - you'll have to live by it.
Oswald couldn't have arrived sooner than 1:16. The Warren Commission knew it, you know it, yet you lie about it.
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 7:09:41 PM4/16/17
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"Commission finding.--Other witnesses to the killing of Tippit include Domingo Benavides, who used Tippit's car radio to notify the police dispatcher of the killing at 1:16 p.m." - WCR, pg 652.
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 7:11:51 PM4/16/17
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Believers are simply FRIGHTENED TO DEATH of the actual evidence in this case. "Bud" probably knows the answer, but is afraid to state it.
> > And since you won't answer that one... here's another: "Red" or "Green?"
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 7:20:03 PM4/16/17
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http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes2.htm
Notice after 1:16 there is a lot of radio traffic. Then you will see "long pause, 15 seconds". Then the report of the shooting. Then the next time given is 1:18.
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 7:22:33 PM4/16/17
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Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 7:27:21 PM4/16/17
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You refuse to answer even the most obvious questions - then pretend you have any right to ask others...
What time did Helen Markham testify that her bus arrives?
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 7:28:05 PM4/16/17
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AMAZING!!!
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 7:30:25 PM4/16/17
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It's a simple question, AND YOU'RE SCARED WITLESS TO ANSWER IT!
This is why honest debate isn't possible - believers are cowards...
You can't name a *SINGLE* "fact" in this case that isn't based on eyewitnesses... "verified" or otherwise...
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 7:30:52 PM4/16/17
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> What time did Helen Markham testify that her bus arrives?
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 7:35:13 PM4/16/17
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http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes2.htm
I believe the radio transmissions show the time of the Tippit transmission to likely be at least 1:17.
Bud
Apr 16, 2017, 7:39:58 PM4/16/17
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> It's a simple question, AND YOU'RE SCARED WITLESS TO ANSWER IT!
>
> This is why honest debate isn't possible - believers are cowards...
> You can't name a *SINGLE* "fact" in this case that isn't based on eyewitnesses... "verified" or otherwise...
David Von Pein
Apr 16, 2017, 7:53:28 PM4/16/17
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Got it now, prick?
Message has been deleted
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 8:23:17 PM4/16/17
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Coward, aren't you "Bud?"
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 8:24:04 PM4/16/17
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Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 8:25:03 PM4/16/17
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You're CERTAINLY too much a coward to simply answer the question.
David Von Pein
Apr 16, 2017, 8:49:32 PM4/16/17
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http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0095b.htm
But it was really T.F. Bowley, of course, who made that radio call, which was done only AFTER Benavides had been pumping the mike for about 90 seconds. And that mike-pumping began at 1:16 PM.
The Warren Commission was apparently relying only on the truncated transcript of the Dallas Police radio tapes that appears on Page 52 of CE1974, which is a transcript that has several radio transmissions omitted (as we can see when comparing CE1974 with a more complete version of the DPD radio tapes)....
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0445a.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes2.htm
The Commission, therefore, failed to take into account the extra 90 seconds of microphone clicking and pumping that was done by Benavides, which I don't think was even discovered until the 1990s when Dale Myers talked about it in his 1998 book.
Ergo, the actual shooting time had to be sometime BEFORE 1:16, because Benavides' "pumping" begins at exactly 1:16. But the WC wasn't accounting for the extra time required for Benavides' mike pumping (because the Commission wasn't even aware of it in 1964).
Dale Myers Quote On:
"Beginning at 1:16 p.m., a microphone is keyed a number of times on channel one of the Dallas police tapes, as if someone were 'pumping' the microphone button of a police radio. This continues for a little over 90 seconds, right up until the time passing motorist T.F. Bowley successfully contacts the dispatcher. .... Considering the timing of the sounds heard in the Dallas police radio recordings, and the corroborating accounts of three witnesses, the murder of Tippit probably occurred about 90 seconds prior to Benavides' bungled attempt to notify the dispatcher. Therefore, there is good reason to believe that J.D. Tippit was shot at approximately 1:14:30 p.m." -- Pages 86-87; "WITH MALICE: LEE HARVEY OSWALD AND THE MURDER OF OFFICER J.D. TIPPIT"
David Von Pein
Apr 16, 2017, 9:58:06 PM4/16/17
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JOHN FIORENTINO SAID:
Just a few more timelines......
12:54 -- Dispatcher to 78 (requesting location) (J.D. Tippit).
78 (Tippit) indicates he's at Lancaster and Eighth (in Oak Cliff section).
Approx 1:02pm -- Dispatcher 78, location? - No response.
Approx. 1:16pm -- radio call from Tippit murder scene.
So the last thing ever heard from Tippit was at approx. 12:54pm.
Tippit never responded to the dispatcher's last inquiry for his location.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
So, John, do you really think Domingo Benavides waited TEN full minutes before getting on Tippit's radio and pumping the mike several times (which occurred at 1:16)?
And if Tippit was shot at 1:06, it also would mean that it took witness T.F. Bowley TWELVE full minutes to make his call on Tippit's car radio, which is a call logged in at 1:18 at the DPD. TWELVE minutes would have passed before that call. That's an absurdly long time.
In my opinion, the Benavides 1:16 "mike pumping" and the 1:18 Bowley call seal the deal regarding the approximate time when J.D. Tippit was shot -- and it sure wasn't as early as 1:06 or 1:10.
David Von Pein
June 2013
More....
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/tippit-timelines.html
Just a few more timelines......
12:54 -- Dispatcher to 78 (requesting location) (J.D. Tippit).
78 (Tippit) indicates he's at Lancaster and Eighth (in Oak Cliff section).
Approx 1:02pm -- Dispatcher 78, location? - No response.
Approx. 1:16pm -- radio call from Tippit murder scene.
So the last thing ever heard from Tippit was at approx. 12:54pm.
Tippit never responded to the dispatcher's last inquiry for his location.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
So, John, do you really think Domingo Benavides waited TEN full minutes before getting on Tippit's radio and pumping the mike several times (which occurred at 1:16)?
And if Tippit was shot at 1:06, it also would mean that it took witness T.F. Bowley TWELVE full minutes to make his call on Tippit's car radio, which is a call logged in at 1:18 at the DPD. TWELVE minutes would have passed before that call. That's an absurdly long time.
In my opinion, the Benavides 1:16 "mike pumping" and the 1:18 Bowley call seal the deal regarding the approximate time when J.D. Tippit was shot -- and it sure wasn't as early as 1:06 or 1:10.
David Von Pein
June 2013
More....
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/tippit-timelines.html
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 10:42:24 PM4/16/17
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It's good that you're admitting that you simply offer your unfounded opinion whenever you're too dishonest to publicly state that the Warren Commission was wrong.
> Got it now, prick?
Sorry, I've far too old for you. Nor do I "swing" that way... You'll have to molest children by yourself, Davy.
I *do* hope the police catch you, however...
Ben Holmes
Apr 16, 2017, 10:43:55 PM4/16/17
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Amusingly, you even cite the proof that you're a liar...
Bud
Apr 17, 2017, 5:13:23 AM4/17/17
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Bud
Apr 17, 2017, 5:14:12 AM4/17/17
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Bud
Apr 17, 2017, 5:16:51 AM4/17/17
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"Helen Markham would have been on the bus at that time..."
Ben Holmes
Apr 17, 2017, 9:47:02 AM4/17/17
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Ben Holmes
Apr 17, 2017, 9:47:50 AM4/17/17
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Even David jumped in refuting that...
Ben Holmes
Apr 17, 2017, 9:57:47 AM4/17/17
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That's the time that you and David are bound to uphold.
Now, why not admit that it was *YOU* who started talking about "verified facts?"
> What facts did you use to make this statement? Helen Markham might have said something, but that doesn`t make what Markham said a fact.
You're so afraid of the facts in this case that you ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT TIME SHE SAID SHE WAS CATCHING HER BUS!!!
That shows that you understand quite well just how weak your faith is.
> > You're CERTAINLY too much a coward to simply answer the question.
Bud
Apr 17, 2017, 12:53:32 PM4/17/17
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Bud
Apr 17, 2017, 1:00:21 PM4/17/17
to
> had Tippit been murdered at 1:16.
>
> That's the time that you and David are bound to uphold.
> Now, why not admit that it was *YOU* who started talking about "verified facts?"
> > What facts did you use to make this statement? Helen Markham might have said something, but that doesn`t make what Markham said a fact.
>
>
> YOU CAN'T EVEN ADMIT WHAT SHE TESTIFIED TO AS FAR AS THE TIME OF HER BUS!!!
> You're so afraid of the facts in this case that you ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT TIME SHE SAID SHE WAS CATCHING HER BUS!!!
> That shows that you understand quite well just how weak your faith is.
Ben Holmes
Apr 17, 2017, 1:19:21 PM4/17/17
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What a coward!!!
Bud
Apr 17, 2017, 1:31:18 PM4/17/17
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> What a coward!!!
Ben Holmes
Apr 17, 2017, 1:36:18 PM4/17/17
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Why have you REPEATEDLY refused to answer this question?
You can keep running and demonstrating your cowardice... but what's impossible for you is honesty and acknowledging the known evidence.
Because it fails to support your faith.
> > What a coward!!!
And clearly, still a coward...
Bud
Apr 17, 2017, 1:50:19 PM4/17/17
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Ben Holmes
Apr 17, 2017, 2:00:19 PM4/17/17
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Run coward... RUN!!!
Bud
Apr 17, 2017, 2:53:17 PM4/17/17
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Ben Holmes
Apr 17, 2017, 2:59:40 PM4/17/17
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You're too terrified to even publicly acknowledge what it was. You're constantly attempting to change the topic...
Nor did you acknowledge the FACT that I posted... which is that her testimony is HIGHLY relevant.
Quite the coward, aren't you "Bud."
Bud
Apr 17, 2017, 3:17:37 PM4/17/17
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Did Markham wear a watch?
> You're too terrified to even publicly acknowledge what it was. You're constantly attempting to change the topic...
> Nor did you acknowledge the FACT that I posted... which is that her testimony is HIGHLY relevant.
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