"Reclaiming History" Talk
David Von Pein
www.amazon.com/gp/discussionboard/discussion.html/ref=cm_rdp_st_rd/105-4913190-2911629?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0393045250&videoPreplay=0&store=yourstore&cdThread=Tx3LPGECC7DYYQG&reviewID=R2DHJ8UIVGM0FJ&displayType=ReviewDetail
IN A REVIEW FOR VINCENT BUGLIOSI'S BOOK, "RECLAIMING HISTORY", MR.
ROBERT H. McGOWAN SAID:
>>> "The arrogance of this man {Vincent Bugliosi} is unnerving. With the evidence already out there for all to research should they so chose, not forgetting the millions of documents still held by the CIA for another 2 or 3 decades, but most disturbingly the recent & startling Audio testimony released by the son of the late H.L Hunt [sic] implicating his father & several other shady characters in the assasination [sic] of our 32nd [sic] President John F. Kennedy was not only dismissed out of hand by this man, he predictably attempted to discredit the taped deposition by Howard Hunt, a man long suspected to have been involved in the Assasination [sic] by historians infinitely more qualified to comment on the events of that day in Dallas. .... Instead of questioning the credibility of the author of the tape, H.L. Hunt, [sic] he attacked the credibility of his son!! .... Needless to say, this possibly inconvenient truth is lost on Mr Bugliosi as he and only he has discovered the definitive and authoritative version of events. The only human being on the planet who was able to solve the Kennedy assasination [sic,] one of this nations [sic] most tragic episodes, the facts of which were able to elude some of the countries [sic] most respected historians; all but one of course, himself. .... Mr Bugliosi like many before him & sadly no doubt after him perhaps saw a wonderful opportunity not to properly review the case but to make a Buck or 2 and perhaps to realize his ultimate dream, to actually prosecute Lee Harvey Oswald in the biggest murder trial in the history of the country pushing him once again into the limelight he craves so much." <<<
==================
DVP SAYS:
Mr. McGowan should get some of his facts straight before berating
others for not having theirs straight.
Since when was "H.L. Hunt" the father of Saint John Hunt? You meant to
say E. Howard Hunt...a completely-different person.
And: JFK was the 35th President, not 32nd.
And: The Hunt confession isn't even in VB's book. Couldn't be. That
story broke 4/28/07; VB's book came out 5/15/07 and went to press in
Nov. '06.
And: "Reclaiming History" is the best book ever written on the JFK
case. (I just wanted to throw that fact here in the middle...for good
measure.)
And: Mr. Bugliosi has revealed that only a mere fraction of 1% of all
the documents pertaining to President Kennedy's death have NOT been
released. Everything else is out there and available to see. And even
the small amount of stuff that isn't in the public domain currently
(but will be in 2017) HAS still been seen by the ARRB, with no
"smoking gun" being discovered at all.
And: To claim, as Mr. McGowan does in his review, that Mr. Bugliosi
thinks that he (VB) is "the only human being on the planet who was
able to solve the Kennedy assasination [sic]" is just outright
silliness of the first order.
What does Mr. McGowan think the Warren Commission did in 1964? Or the
HSCA in 1977-'78?
Those Government inquiries looked deeply into the case and, for all
intents and purposes, "solved" the case....which was long before Mr.
Bugliosi ever put pencil to paper to begin his book in 1986.*
* = The HSCA's declaration of "probable conspiracy" based on the
Dictabelt evidence notwithstanding, since that evidence has been
completely dismantled and discredited in subsequent years, meaning
that the HSCA's verdict was essentially identical to that of the WC's
when the dust had settled and the silly Dictabelt stuff was tossed out
the window where it belongs -- i.e., Oswald acted alone in killing JFK
and J.D. Tippit; and Ruby acted alone in killing Oswald.
And: This comment made by Mr. McGowan had me chuckling at length
(proper punctuation added by yours truly):
"Mr. Bugliosi, like many before him & sadly no doubt after him,
perhaps saw a wonderful opportunity not to properly review the case,
but to make a buck or 2 and perhaps to realize his ultimate dream, to
actually prosecute Lee Harvey Oswald in the biggest murder trial in
the history of the country, pushing him once again into the limelight
he craves so much."
So, per Mr. McGowan, Vince Bugliosi (who had, in effect, ALREADY
"prosecuted" Lee Harvey Oswald in a court of law--in London in 1986
during the scriptless televised Docu-Trial known as "ON TRIAL: LEE
HARVEY OSWALD") was pretty much in this thing for the money....but
Vince decides to take 21 YEARS (!) to write his definitive tome on the
JFK case, which is a book that's released in VB's senior years (to be
kind)....he's now 73.
Yeah, sounds like he was really in it only for the purpose of making
"a buck or 2". Geez.
And: I'm also wondering why so many people who have adhered themselves
permanently to the silly notion of a "JFK Conspiracy" think that their
opinions (seemingly based on nothing but the direction of the wind, or
a "motive" they think such-&-such a person might have had, or a hunk
of pure speculation) are worthy of NOT being ridiculed? That's always
had me scratching me head.
You think Vincent Bugliosi is "arrogant", Robert?
Well, maybe you're right. But I think he's got every right to be.
Here's a much better review of VB's book (with lots of Vincent's
justified "arrogance" on full display; and I love it):
David Von Pein
Subject: About Tippit & Oswald
Date: 09/14/2007
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10976
Tim Gratz wrote this at "The Education Forum":
"But according to VB in "Reclaiming History", Tippitt [sic] called his
dispatcher twice at 1:08 p.m. and VB states those calls must be about
Tippitt's [sic] observations of LHO. So, is it possible that LHO could
get from his rooming house to Tenth & Patton in only FIVE minutes?
Even walking at a VERY BRISK pace?"
==============================
DVP REPLIED:
Tim,
The "1:08" transmissions that Vince Bugliosi was referring to in his
book were not taking place from the exact location of Tippit's murder
on 10th Street. Vince thinks that Tippit might have been tailing
Oswald for several blocks prior to Oswald reaching 10th & Patton.
So, those 1:08 transmissions, under those conditions, would have been
about 5 to 8 minutes (approx.) after LHO left his Beckley
residence...and could have been made anywhere along the route from
Beckley to 10th.
BTW, Dale Myers (the definitive researcher on the Tippit case)
disagrees with Vince on these 1:08 police radio calls. Dale says
there's conclusive proof (via the recordings) that shows the two calls
were made by two other police cars (Units 58 or 68 and 488), not by
Tippit.
I've heard the radio transmissions myself and they do not sound like
Tippit's voice, nor does the definitive "Number 78" (Tippit's call-
sign number) appear on the audio.
Lots of tidbits about the Tippit case can be found at Mr. Myers' FAQ
below (including details about the "1:08 transmissions"):
http://www.jdtippit.com/html/intro_faq.htm
Regards,
David Von Pein
www.davidvonpein.blogspot.com
eca...@tx.rr.com
posted this in AA as well.. To be certain it gets
maximum exposure I am copying my AC comments to AA.
This is one for your very best David. Although your
review is extremely lengthy as it must be, I have
taken the liberty of cutting and pasting about 5-10%
of my favorite excerpts, or "excepts" as Ricland
would say in hopes that readership of this
extraordinary post is as high as possible.
` ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
----- DVP REVIEW OF RH ON: -----
* "The conspiracy community regularly seizes on one slip of the
tongue, misunderstanding, or slight discrepancy to defeat twenty
pieces of solid evidence; accepts one witness of theirs, even if he or
she is a provable nut, as being far more credible than ten normal
witnesses on the other side; treats rumors, even questions, as the
equivalent of proof; leaps from the most minuscule of discoveries to
the grandest of conclusions; and insists that the failure to explain
everything perfectly negates all that is explained." -- VB; Page xliii
* "When one removes the Dictabelt "fourth shot" from the HSCA
findings, all that is really left is the HSCA's conclusion that Oswald
killed Kennedy, and the fact that the committee found no evidence of
any person or group having conspired with Oswald, the identical
findings of the Warren Commission." -- VB; Page xxii
* "I am unaware of any other major event in world history which has
been shrouded in so much intentional misinformation as has the
assassination of JFK. Nor am I aware of any event that has given rise
to such an extraordinarily large number of far-fetched and conflicting
theories." -- VB; Page xxix
* "In my opinion, the Warren Commission's investigation has to be
considered the most comprehensive investigation of a crime in history.
Even leading Warren Commission critic Harold Weisberg acknowledges
that the Commission "checked into almost every breath [Oswald] drew"."
-- VB; Page xxxii
* "Not the smallest speck of evidence has ever surfaced that any of
the conspiracy community's favorite groups (CIA, mob, etc.) was
involved, in any way, in the assassination. Not only the Warren
Commission, but the HSCA came to the same conclusion. .... "But
conspiracy theorists, as suspicious as a cat in a new home, find
occurrences and events everywhere that feed their suspicions and their
already strong predilection to believe that the official version is
wrong." -- VB; Page xlii
* "I wish the theorists would tell us the relevance of the many
inconsistencies they cite in the Kennedy case instead of feeling that
the inconsistencies are an end in themselves and nothing else has to
be shown or argued." -- VB; Page 23 of Endnotes
* "Critics have questioned whether Howard Brennan was really the
source of {Dallas Police Inspector J. Herbert} Sawyer's detailed
description {of the TSBD assassin} and the dispatcher's subsequent
broadcast. .... The affidavit that Brennan gave at the sheriff's
office within an hour of the shooting includes {a} description of the
gunman...nearly identical in language to Sawyer's {12:44 P.M.}
broadcast. .... There can be little doubt Brennan was, in fact, the
source." -- VB; Pages 35-36 of Endnotes
* "{Jack} Tatum sees a man in a light tan-gray jacket start off in
Tatum's direction, hesitate at the rear of the police car, then step
back into the street and fire one more shot, right into the head of
the officer {J.D. Tippit} on the ground. .... [Mr. Bugliosi's
Footnote:] I asked Tatum at the {1986} London trial {"On Trial: Lee
Harvey Oswald"} if he got "a good look" at the man who shot Tippit and
whom he identified at the trial. "Very good look," Tatum responded. I
asked if there was "any question in your mind" that the man was
Oswald. "None whatsoever," he answered. (Transcript of On Trial, July
23, 1986, p.200)" -- VB; Page 79
* "He {Jack Ruby} called his sister Eileen, in Chicago {on Friday
afternoon, 11/22/63}, and was crying. .... "Maybe I will fly up to be
with you tonight," he suggested, but she reminded him that Eva
{another sister of Jack's}, who had just returned home from the
hospital from abdominal surgery, needed him now more than she did.
"You better stay there," she told her brother." -- VB; Page 172
* "On an impulse he {Jack Ruby, at around 10:15 PM on November 22}
stops at Phil's Delicatessen on Oak Lawn Avenue and tells the
counterman, John Frickstad, to cut him ten corned beef sandwiches with
mustard. And ten soft drinks--eight black cherries and two celery
tonics. He chats a bit with the owner, Phil Miller. .... The sandwich
bill only comes to $9.50 plus tax--Frickstad made only eight
sandwiches instead of the ten Jack ordered." -- VB; Pages 174-175
(Note by Ed Cage: Like so many people involved or mentioned I knew or
at least saw Phil many times. He also had a "Phil's Delicatessen" on
Preston Road. Every time I saw Phil he was counting the cash in the
cash register to see where that day was and to cut down on employee
theft. Phil was about 5' 9" 240 pounds.)
* "The Dallas police have done an incredible, some would even say a
near-impossible job over just the last eleven and a half hours. In
that short span since the president's murder, they have apprehended
the man they believe is responsible, and amassed evidence against him
that is destined to withstand years of intense scrutiny.
"Despite the thousands of government man-hours yet to come, the basis
of the case against Oswald is collected and assembled by the Dallas
police in these first crucial hours. It is a feat the world would soon
forget." -- VB; Page 182
* "Clearly, {Police Officer H.B.} McLain could not have been the one
with an open microphone on his motorcycle, nor could anyone else in
the motorcade, since both amateur films {Hughes' and Dorman's} prove
that there were no other motorcycles at the location and time that the
acoustic evidence demanded. .... "In the final analysis, the validity
of the HSCA's acoustic evidence collapses under the weight of its own
requirements." -- VB; Pages 203 and 216-217 of Endnotes
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/acoustic.htm
* "Dr. Michael Baden has what I believe to be the answer, one whose
logic is solid. [Quoting Baden] "The head exit wound was not in the
parietal-occipital area, as the Parkland doctors said. They were
wrong," {Baden} told me. "Since the thick growth of hair on Kennedy's
head hadn't been shaved at Parkland, there's no way for the doctors to
have seen the margins of the wound in the skin of the scalp. All they
saw was blood and brain tissue adhering to the hair. And that may have
been mostly in the occipital area because he was lying on his back and
gravity would push his hair, blood, and brain tissue backward, so many
of them probably assumed the exit wound was in the back of the
head" [End Baden quote]." -- VB; Pages 407-408
(Quoting DVP again): "The above explanation is one that I, too, have
postulated as the probable answer to this enduring "head wound"
mystery over the years:
http://www.google.com/group/alt.assa...a93e60c9987e2b
http://www.google.com/group/alt.assa...e44871116dc9e9
http://www.google.com/group/alt.assa...e53e998792e202
"One other point that I think is worthy of mentioning here is the fact
that (as far as I'm aware) there wasn't a single witness at Parkland
or Bethesda who claimed to have seen TWO large wounds of exit in JFK's
head on 11/22/63."
* (Ed Cage observed and said): LBOH wound believers, here is why so
many observers at PH mistakenly thought there was a LBOH wound..
That's what it looks like to me too but here's what the 3 autopsy
doctors signed off on:
* (Quoting DVP now): "That contradictory evidence includes: The
official autopsy report (signed by three doctors), the autopsy
photographs and X-rays, the Zapruder Film, and the never-wavering
testimony of all three autopsy doctors (with each doctor agreeing that
President Kennedy was hit by only two bullets, with both of those
bullets coming from "above and behind" John F. Kennedy). And all of
this evidence is also pointed out numerous times by Vince Bugliosi in
this chapter as well."
* "Lest anyone still has any doubt as to the location of the large
exit wound in the head...the Zapruder film itself couldn't possibly
provide better demonstrative evidence. The film proves conclusively,
and beyond all doubt, where the exit wound was... .."Zapruder frame
313 (when the president's head exploded) and frame 328 (almost a
second later) clearly show that the large, gaping exit wound was to
the right front of the president's head. The back of his head shows no
such large wound and clearly is completely intact." [Bugliosi's
emphasis.] -- VB; Page 410
* "A popular theory in the conspiracy community is that the reason why
a particular autopsy photo of the back of the president's head shows
no large defect is that one of the autopsy doctors, before the photo
was taken, took the flap of scalp that had come loose on the right
side of the president's head and pulled it all the way backward to
cover and hide the large defect, thereby making the back of his head
look normal.. .."I will not devote one word to responding to this
insanity. But I will ask the zany conspiracists, Who was present in
the presidential limousine after the president was shot to pull the
flap back and make the back of the president's head look undamaged in
the Zapruder film?" -- VB; Page 249 of Endnotes
Reference:
http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/autopsy_slideshow/images/autop04.jpg
* DVP: I, too, would like to know the answer to that question that
Vince asked. Naturally, the conspiracists cannot answer it (without
making fools of themselves at any rate), because the back side of
JFK's head is intact, per Mr. Zapruder's motion picture just after the
head shot, and the large, gaping exit wound is located just where the
autopsy report and the autopsists said it was (i.e., to the right-
front of the head, above the right ear)....as is fully demonstrated by
way of this Z-Film still frame (again, a very graphic image):
Reference:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/z335.jpg
* "The fact that the largest fragment found of the president's skull
was along the coronal suture, that this triangular fragment was one of
three that, in the aggregate, lined up, on reconstruction, with the
large defect to the right front of the president's skull, and that
this large fragment of bone was beveled on its outer surface, rather
than its inner surface, provide conclusive evidence of an exiting
bullet to the right front of the president's head." -- VB; Pages
235-236 of Endnotes
* "Though conspiracy theorists are almost unanimous in believing that
the president was shot from the front and his throat wound was an
entrance wound, they are strangely silent as to what happened to this
bullet after it entered the president's throat. .... It would be
virtually impossible for a bullet entering the soft tissue of the neck
at a speed of 2,000 feet per second to stop inside the neck and not
exit the body." -- VB; Page 416
* "Perhaps the clearest visual evidence of the fact that the entrance
wound in the {President's} back was definitely above the exit wound in
the throat appears in one of {the} autopsy photos taken of the left
side of the president's head as he is lying on his back, his head on a
metal headrest. Only the wound to the throat is visible, not the wound
to his upper right back. However, it couldn't be clearer from this
photo that the wound to the back was definitely above the exit wound
in the throat." -- VB; Page 424
DVP: Here's the photo Mr. Bugliosi is referring to, turned sideways
for better orientation:
http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/auto...fk_zeroang.jpg
* "How would this "fake 6.5 mm {X-ray} object," as {Dr. David} Mantik
calls it, implicate Oswald? .... What possible advantage would the
conspirators have gained by forging the object onto the X-ray film?
The thought that they would risk getting caught doing this to
implicate Oswald in a case in which he and his rifle were already
overwhelmingly connected to the assassination is irrational on its
face.
"One should add that if, indeed, Dr. Mantik's conspirators were
willing to do something so extremely risky and completely unnecessary
to frame Oswald, wouldn't they have found some way to bring it to the
attention of the FBI or Warren Commission in 1964?
"Instead, if Dr. Mantik is correct, we have to learn about the
sinister implications of the "cardboard artifact" for the first time
35 years later when he published his findings in the book
Assassination Science? Isn't this silly, again, on its face?" -- VB;
Page 222 of Endnotes
* "The entire photographic panel of the HSCA concluded that "the
autopsy photographs and X-rays were taken of President Kennedy at the
time of his autopsy and that they had not been altered in any manner."
This fact alone demolishes the conspiracy theorists' allegations that
photographic fakery was used to conceal the plot to kill the
president.
"It also destroys another prime conspiracy belief--that the eyewitness
descriptions of the president's wounds that were offered by the
Parkland Hospital doctors (and later by some eyewitnesses to the
autopsy) are proof that the autopsy photographs had been altered. --
VB; Pages 223-224 of Endnotes"
` ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
----- OFF -----
DVP's excellent review and selected VB quotes
respectfully submitted by
Ed Cage
0345Sep1407
On Sep 14, 1:33 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> www.amazon.com/gp/discussionboard/discussion.html/ref=cm_rdp_st_rd/10...
David Von Pein
But I hope you didn't stop reading after just "Part 1" (of
3). :) .....
eca...@tx.rr.com
http://hometheaterforum.com/htf/showpost.php?p=3200862
Yikes! I did miss this David, but I'll
check it out later today.. Right now I
gotta tune in ESPN and catch up on what's
happening in the NL wild card race, the
status on Greg Ogden, and Bill's TE Kevin
Everett, and my huge disappointment in
Patriot's coach Bill Billichek who has
made cheating an art & science! NFL
Commissioner Roger Goodell is a damn good
one!! Sending messages to Vick, PacMan,
and now blowing the doors off of the Pat's
SLEEeezy spygate cheating scheme..It sez
here $750,000 in fines and a first round
pick are NOT enuff..
MR >;~{{ ED<==Double chin shows when Mr Ed is PO'd.
0522Sep1407
David Von Pein
www.amazon.com/Message-Patricia-Lambert-apology-Bugliosi/forum/Fx2TVHW5I0UEY9A/TxR9QNQTFC20JF/22/ref=cm_cd_et_md_pl/?%5Fencoding=UTF8&cdMsgNo=526&cdAnchor=0393045250&cdSort=oldest&cdMsgID=MxYDVMLJM4I19C#MxYDVMLJM4I19C
A FELLOW LNer SAID:
>>> "You are telling us that both the neck and back wounds are entry wounds, through soft tissue, yet neither exited the body (ROTFLMAO)? In addition, there were no bullets. Do you believe in the Loch Ness Monster?" <<<
DVP:
I'm tellin' you, Al....a CTer's best bet is to theorize something I
talked about the other day -- i.e., simply claim that the BACK bullet
and the NECK bullet COLLIDED with each other inside the President's
neck!
The two bullets then vaporized upon impact, leaving nary a trace of
the missiles behind in the body and (somehow) not causing any other
tissue damage after the vaporization took place.
Sounds about as logical as the Oliver Stone-like theory of TWO bullets
hitting soft tissue, with BOTH of these bullets stopping on a dime --
with both missiles disappearing off the face of the planet immediately
(as is the case with ALL unwanted "CT" bullets in this entire case,
per most conspiracy kooks).
Plus: The wounds line up to such "LHO In The SN" perfection on JFK's
body so as to make this TWO-bullet event (per CTers) look as though it
COULD have been a single-bullet event. Remarkable luck (yet again) for
the multiple shooters in Dealey Plaza.
(And to think....Ollie Stone actually made lots of money by peddling
such impossible nonsense.)
CE903:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0055b.htm