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Re: MORE FANTASIES FROM ROBERT J. GRODEN

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David Von Pein

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Sep 21, 2009, 12:59:59 AM9/21/09
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www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/9f0cc637196272af


During his 9/17/09 appearance on "Black Op Radio", Robert Groden said
he currently has 996 pictures in his newest book of fantasy ("JFK:
ABSOLUTE PROOF"). He said he'll be adding at least four more, so that
there will be at least 1,000 pictures in the book.

Groden, on September 17th, also dished out a few more (laughable)
tidbits of info about his new bombshell witness who supposedly saw
(and SPOKE TO) Lee Harvey Oswald in the second-floor office of the
Book Depository at the exact time the shots were fired at JFK. Groden
tells the Black Op audience this whopper of a tall tale:

Apparently this bombshell witness was a TSBD employee who was giving
LHO some coins for the soda machine. While counting out the coins into
Oswald's hand, the shots were fired at JFK. Both Oswald and this
bombshell witness heard the shots. They then looked at each other and
exclaimed "What was that?"

The bombshell witness is now dead (apparently having recently passed
away). And, per Groden, the witness didn't want her story to be
revealed until after her death (although, per Groden, she TOLD THE
WARREN COMMISSION about seeing Oswald at the time of the
assassination, and the WC "told her to keep her mouth shut" [Groden's
quote; 9/17/09]).*

* = Groden did specifically say "she", so we know that the "witness"
is a woman.

There will undoubtedly be a few gullible people in the world who will,
indeed, believe Groden's newest fantasy regarding his new "bombshell
witness". But hopefully not too many.

I look forward to getting Groden's new book though (for the photos
only, of course, and not for the make-believe conspiracy nonsense that
will inevitably accompany each photograph). That is, if Bob agrees to
sell a copy to a lowly LNer like me.

BTW, for an additional laugh, go to the 27:55 mark of the Black Op
program linked below, where Groden says that "Reclaiming History"
author Vincent Bugliosi "still knows nothing about it [the JFK murder
case]".

Vince Bugliosi spent 20+ years working on his JFK book, and yet he
"still knows NOTHING" about the case, according to Robert J. Groden.

For laughs (and fantasy), you simply can't beat a JFK assassination
sensationalist/conspiracist.

www.BlackOpRadio.com/black441a.ram

François Carlier

unread,
Sep 21, 2009, 2:37:37 PM9/21/09
to
Well, I must agree,

Vincent Bugliosi knows nothing about the Kennedy assassination.

Likewise,

Georges W. Bush knows nothing about the White House,

Winston Churchill knew nothing about World War II,

Roger Federer knows nothing about tennis,

and Joe Satriani knows nothing about guitar playing.

And YOU, David, YOU know nothing about the plot to alter Kennedy's wounds
and Oswald's backyard photos !!!

/Fran�ois Carlier/


"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> a �crit dans le message de
news:273d2266-36d3-4428...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com...


>
>
> www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/9f0cc637196272af
>
>
> During his 9/17/09 appearance on "Black Op Radio", Robert Groden said

> he had 996 pictures in his newest book of fantasy ("JFK: ABSOLUTE
> PROOF"), as of September 16, 2009. (He said he'll add at least four
> more, so that there will be at least 1,000 pictures in the book.)


>
> Groden, on September 17th, also dished out a few more (laughable)
> tidbits of info about his new bombshell witness who supposedly saw
> (and SPOKE TO) Lee Harvey Oswald in the second-floor office of the
> Book Depository at the exact time the shots were fired at JFK. Groden
> tells the Black Op audience this whopper of a tall tale:
>
> Apparently this bombshell witness was a TSBD employee who was giving
> LHO some coins for the soda machine. While counting out the coins into
> Oswald's hand, the shots were fired at JFK. Both Oswald and this
> bombshell witness heard the shots. They then looked at each other and
> exclaimed "What was that?"
>
> The bombshell witness is now dead (apparently having recently passed
> away). And, per Groden, the witness didn't want her story to be
> revealed until after her death (although, per Groden, she TOLD THE
> WARREN COMMISSION about seeing Oswald at the time of the
> assassination, and the WC "told her to keep her mouth shut" [Groden's
> quote; 9/17/09]).*
>

> * = Groden did specifically say "she" on Black Op Radio show, so we

Steve

unread,
Sep 21, 2009, 2:52:33 PM9/21/09
to
On Sep 21, 11:37 am, François Carlier <Fra-Carl...@orange.fr> wrote:
> Well, I must agree,
>
> Vincent Bugliosi knows nothing about the Kennedy assassination.
>
> Likewise,
>
> Georges W. Bush knows nothing about the White House,
>
> Winston Churchill knew nothing about World War II,
>
> Roger Federer knows nothing about tennis,
>
> and Joe Satriani knows nothing about guitar playing.
>
> And YOU, David, YOU know nothing about the plot to alter Kennedy's wounds
> and Oswald's backyard photos !!!
>
> /François Carlier/
>
> "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message denews:273d2266-36d3-4428...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/9f0cc...
> >www.BlackOpRadio.com/black441a.ram- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I may not know about the plot to alter Kennedy's wounds or the
backyard photographs either but I DO know that altering wounds to the
point of fooling trained medical examiners has never been done since
the dawn of mankind and never could be done since post-mortem wounds
look different from anti-mortem wounds. ANY first semester med
student knows that. Additionally I know that every time trained
professionals have examined the backyard photographs they have
concluded they are authentic with NO evidence of fakery whatsoever.
Additionally, I know that Marina Oswald as late as 2000 admitted that
she took the backyard photographs.

From your comments Pierre it is clear that you are EXACTLY the poorly-
educated audience conspiracy kooks shoot for when they float their
stupid theories out there.

aeffects

unread,
Sep 21, 2009, 3:06:29 PM9/21/09
to
On Sep 21, 11:37 am, François Carlier <Fra-Carl...@orange.fr> wrote:
> Well, I must agree,
>
> Vincent Bugliosi knows nothing about the Kennedy assassination.
>
> Likewise,
>
> Georges W. Bush knows nothing about the White House,
>
> Winston Churchill knew nothing about World War II,
>
> Roger Federer knows nothing about tennis,
>
> and Joe Satriani knows nothing about guitar playing.
>
> And YOU, David, YOU know nothing about the plot to alter Kennedy's wounds
> and Oswald's backyard photos !!!
>
> /François Carlier/
>
> "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message denews:273d2266-36d3-4428...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> >www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/9f0cc...
>

sitdown shithead..... for an American you make a shitty French
impersonator.... fucking nutter-trolls are disgusting..... LMFAO!

Steve

unread,
Sep 21, 2009, 4:07:17 PM9/21/09
to
> impersonator.... fucking nutter-trolls are disgusting..... LMFAO!- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Hey Healy you big dumbass. After reading my response you got the
impression that I was impersonating a French frog? You are the
biggest dumbshit I have EVER run across. By the way. I noticed last
week you didn't have any explanation why you Zapruder alterationists
dumbasses have never attempted to duplicate the feat you stupidly
claim was done in 1963? Why not dumbass? Can't do it? Why don't you
and that old senile fool Jack White pool your brains and pull off the
fake job of the century and finally prove your stupid claims you made
in AS? Huh? Why not dumbass? Scared you'll be exposed as the fake
and phony you are?

François Carlier

unread,
Sep 21, 2009, 4:21:35 PM9/21/09
to
Hello everybody,

In case my sense of humor was not understood ...

I am convinced that Lee Oswald was the lone assassin of JFK. No conspiracy.

I can therefore be labeled a "lone nutter". (with pride, on top of that)

I am a follower of people such as Gerald Posner, Vincent Bugliosi, John
McAdams, or David Von Pein (people I admire a lot !).

I am a big fan of David Von Pein, and I agree with EVERYTHING he has written
so far.

And I am myself the author of a book published in France that claims Lee
Oswald was guilty of killing Kennedy.

I was just trying to be funny when I wrote my previous post.

And yes, I am French, yes I live in France, and NO, I am not impersonating
anyone, I think no one is impersonating me, and NO, I am not a frog
!!!!!!!!!!!!

/Fran�ois Carlier/


"Steve" <sahi...@yahoo.com> a �crit dans le message de
news:0c762571-ea0e-4d5d...@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...


On Sep 21, 12:06 pm, aeffects <aeffect...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sep 21, 11:37 am, Fran�ois Carlier <Fra-Carl...@orange.fr> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Well, I must agree,
>
> > Vincent Bugliosi knows nothing about the Kennedy assassination.
>
> > Likewise,
>
> > Georges W. Bush knows nothing about the White House,
>
> > Winston Churchill knew nothing about World War II,
>
> > Roger Federer knows nothing about tennis,
>
> > and Joe Satriani knows nothing about guitar playing.
>
> > And YOU, David, YOU know nothing about the plot to alter Kennedy's
> > wounds
> > and Oswald's backyard photos !!!
>

> > /Fran�ois Carlier/
>
> > "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> a �crit dans le message

Ben Holmes

unread,
Sep 21, 2009, 5:37:31 PM9/21/09
to
In article <4ab7e046$0$12655$ba4a...@news.orange.fr>,
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Carlier?= says...

>
>Hello everybody,
>
>In case my sense of humor was not understood ...
>
>I am convinced that Lee Oswald was the lone assassin of JFK. No conspiracy.
>
>I can therefore be labeled a "lone nutter". (with pride, on top of that)
>
>I am a follower of people such as Gerald Posner, Vincent Bugliosi, John
>McAdams, or David Von Pein (people I admire a lot !).
>
>I am a big fan of David Von Pein, and I agree with EVERYTHING he has written
>so far.
>
>And I am myself the author of a book published in France that claims Lee
>Oswald was guilty of killing Kennedy.
>
>I was just trying to be funny when I wrote my previous post.
>
>And yes, I am French, yes I live in France, and NO, I am not impersonating
>anyone, I think no one is impersonating me, and NO, I am not a frog
>!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>/Fran�ois Carlier/

You are, however, afraid to defend the WCR against those who know the evidence.

A very French attitude...


>"Steve" <sahi...@yahoo.com> a �crit dans le message de

>news:0c762571-ea0e-4d5d...@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>On Sep 21, 12:06 pm, aeffects <aeffect...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> On Sep 21, 11:37 am, Fran�ois Carlier <Fra-Carl...@orange.fr> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Well, I must agree,
>>
>> > Vincent Bugliosi knows nothing about the Kennedy assassination.
>>
>> > Likewise,
>>
>> > Georges W. Bush knows nothing about the White House,
>>
>> > Winston Churchill knew nothing about World War II,
>>
>> > Roger Federer knows nothing about tennis,
>>
>> > and Joe Satriani knows nothing about guitar playing.
>>
>> > And YOU, David, YOU know nothing about the plot to alter Kennedy's
>> > wounds
>> > and Oswald's backyard photos !!!
>>

>> > /Fran�ois Carlier/
>>
>> > "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> a �crit dans le message


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com

Robert Harris

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Sep 21, 2009, 6:39:25 PM9/21/09
to

David, you have lost all semblance of objectivity and sanity.

You have gone far over the deep edge and have become lunier than the
worst of your adversaries.

For your own good, take a vacation. Call a few relatives and have long
chats about anything except the case. Throw a party, dance and get
totally drunk! Have a few friendly prostitutes over!

Take at least a month off, david. Go back to work if your employer will
still have you.

When you come back, notice that your eyes have returned to normal and
there is no drool on your chin!

And if you can still remember who it was that got shot, take another
month!

Robert Harris


In article
<273d2266-36d3-4428...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:

> www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/9f0cc637196272
> af

Steve

unread,
Sep 21, 2009, 8:55:39 PM9/21/09
to
On Sep 21, 3:39 pm, Robert Harris <reharr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> David, you have lost all semblance of objectivity and sanity.
>
> You have gone far over the deep edge and have become lunier than the
> worst of your adversaries.
>
> For your own good, take a vacation. Call a few relatives and have long
> chats about anything except the case. Throw a party, dance and get
> totally drunk! Have a few friendly prostitutes over!
>
> Take at least a month off, david. Go back to work if your employer will
> still have you.
>
> When you come back, notice that your eyes have returned to normal and
> there is no drool on your chin!
>
> And if you can still remember who it was that got shot, take another
> month!
>
> Robert Harris
>
> In article
> <273d2266-36d3-4428-9915-32605d36b...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
>  David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/9f0cc...
> >www.BlackOpRadio.com/black441a.ram- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

THAT was your entire post Robert you big dummy? You didn't say
ANYTHING relevant. What a waste of time to read that honey-tongued
mish-mash bunch of nothing.

David Von Pein

unread,
Sep 22, 2009, 12:03:04 AM9/22/09
to

>>> "David, you have lost all semblance of objectivity and sanity. You have gone far over the deep edge and have become lunier [sic; I guess Mr. Kook Harris means "loonier" here] than the worst of your adversaries." <<<


The above rant/tirade gushed forth by Mr. Robert Harris wouldn't have
been nearly as funny as it is had it been attached to a DVP post
different from the one that Bobby did attach it to.

Bob attached his wild-eyed anti-DVP rant to the following post of mine
(which is a post that is mainly about Robert Groden's silly new
bombshell witness [i.e., liar] who supposedly talked to Lee Oswald on
the 2nd Floor of the TSBD when JFK was being murdered outside the
building):

www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/f15c03b7bae49bd3


It was the above post that prompted Bob Harris to say this to me:

"David, you have lost all semblance of objectivity and sanity."

-- R. Harris


I guess I can assume, therefore, that Bob Harris thinks there WAS,
indeed, a witness on the 2nd Floor who was with Lee Harvey Oswald when
Kennedy was killed. ~shrug~

Or maybe it was my closing comment about Groden's incredibly-stupid
remark about how Vincent Bugliosi, to this day, "still knows nothing
about [the JFK case]". Maybe that was the thing that made me lose "all
semblance of objectivity and sanity". Is that it, Bob?

Either way, Harris looks downright silly (which is his normal day-to-
day appearance, as we all know).

>>> "When you come back, notice that your eyes have returned to normal and there is no drool on your chin! And if you can still remember who it was that got shot, take another month!" <<<


Here's a suggestion for you, Bob Harris --- Take a flying leap off
Mount Conspiracy.

I don't need to be preached to by a kook who thinks Dave Ferrie and
Carlos Marcello were working in cahoots with one another to have JFK
killed.

And I certainly don't need to be preached to by a CTer who thinks he
can prove that a MISSED shot occurred at exactly Zapruder Film frame
#285.

(And *I'M* the "luny" one, huh? LOL.)

Robert Harris

unread,
Sep 22, 2009, 11:00:46 AM9/22/09
to
In article
<a9b90b9f-8fe0-4eee...@l34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,

David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:

> >>> "David, you have lost all semblance of objectivity and sanity. You have
> >>> gone far over the deep edge and have become lunier [sic; I guess Mr. Kook
> >>> Harris means "loonier" here] than the worst of your adversaries." <<<
>
>
> The above rant/tirade gushed forth by Mr. Robert Harris wouldn't have
> been nearly as funny as it is had it been attached to a DVP post
> different from the one that Bobby did attach it to.

Well, I never thought of that but if you are correct, then my timing was
pretty good I guess.

>
> Bob attached his wild-eyed anti-DVP rant to the following post of mine
> (which is a post that is mainly about Robert Groden's silly new
> bombshell witness [i.e., liar] who supposedly talked to Lee Oswald on
> the 2nd Floor of the TSBD when JFK was being murdered outside the
> building):
>
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/f15c03b7bae49bd3
>
>
> It was the above post that prompted Bob Harris to say this to me:
>
> "David, you have lost all semblance of objectivity and sanity."
> -- R. Harris
>
>
> I guess I can assume, therefore, that Bob Harris thinks there WAS,
> indeed, a witness on the 2nd Floor who was with Lee Harvey Oswald when
> Kennedy was killed. ~shrug~


David, I think I mentioned before that if you don't understand what I
mean, you only need to ask me.

Actually, I wasn't paying much attention to the substance of what you
said because you rarely discuss evidence or present any kind of coherent
reasoning. You just endlessly rant about how despicable all the people
are who disagree with you.

With the exception of Seedy, I have never seen anyone who so
consistently posts almost nothing except angry hate messages.

David - good conclusions come from thoughtful and unbiased research,
something which you very obviously, cannot do. You have crippled
yourself with anger and hate and closed your mind to any possibility of
anything that wasn't approved by the government and Vincent Bugliosi.

I cannot fathom how anyone would deliberately blind himself to the
extent that he was incapable of learning anything new about a case that
was this important. And yes, that goes for some of the most radical of
your adversaries too, David.

David, do yourself a favor.

Grab a piece of paper and a pen and write down the three worst things
that could happened if you somehow, were able to open your mind and
become objective about the JFK assassination.

No, seriously - do it!

Now, below that, write down all the advantages of being a closed-minded
bigot.

Study your answers carefully, David.

Robert Harris

David Von Pein

unread,
Sep 22, 2009, 11:28:20 AM9/22/09
to

>>> "Actually, I wasn't paying much attention to the substance of what you said because you rarely discuss evidence or present any kind of coherent reasoning. You just endlessly rant about how despicable all the people are who disagree with you." <<<

LOL.

===================================

"David, I can't thank you enough for all the tremendous support
you have given me and my book. You have become very valuable in
helping to make sure that the truth catches up to all the lies and
distortions told about the assassination, and I hope we get to meet
some day so I can thank you in person. Your friend and colleague,
Vince Bugliosi" -- VB; 08/22/09

===================================

Yeah, yeah, I know....Vince B. "still knows NOTHING about [the JFK
case]", right Bob Harris?

Steve

unread,
Sep 22, 2009, 12:34:24 PM9/22/09
to

Robert Harris the Big Dummy hasn't paid attention to things of
substance for thirty years. Why would his opinion on ANYTHING merit a
serious response?

Robert Harris

unread,
Sep 22, 2009, 2:41:47 PM9/22/09
to
In article
<4658545f-c540-4e0a...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,

David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:

Of course he does and I never said otherwise.

He knows the official line and he is knowledgeable about the old school
conspiracy theories. He'll kick ass on badgeman or "the driver did it".

And he is probably knowledgeable on some of the newer, legitimate stuff,
but he doesn't address it because he can't. He can't deal with the
mountains of documentation that Waldron presented, proving that Marcello
ordered the assassination and that the mafia made two previous attempts,
trying to set up ambushes in Chicago and Tampa.

And he cannot deal with my arguments either. I mailed him a very simple
presentation before his book was ever published. It was in my
pre-Youtube days and consisted of slides and narration from the paper I
wrote back in the 90's, on the shot at 285.

I got a raving endorsement for that same paper, from Dr. Michael
Stroscio, Phd. physics, who had written on Alvarez's analysis of the
Zapruder film. This guy had headed Presidential science commissions,
David, and he fully agreed that I had proven that shots were fired which
could not all have come from Oswald.

Bugliosi's response was total silence. Hell, even Posner replied back in
'95 when I showed him that paper at my website, saying the graphics were
nice but he disagreed.

You should ask Bugliosi about the John Elrod case too, David. Other than
his predictable "sublime silliness" or some other pointless gibberish,
he will have no rebuttal. That's because he ONLY deals with the easy
stuff.

There were a number of reasons why the old school critics got important
issues wrong. For one thing, they would never listen to the witnesses
who said they heard only ONE early shot and then closely spaced shots at
the end.

Think about it, David.

If they admitted that, then how could they argue against the SBT??
Surely, that would prove that one bullet really did pass through both
victims, right?

But we know better, don't we? We know that there were two early shots at
160 and 223, and there really were. But nobody heard that second shot.
If they had, they would have said so. And the limo passengers would have
reacted like they did after 285 and 312.

LOOK AT THEM DAVID. TELL ME THAT AT 223, THEY WERE EXPOSED TO SOUND
LEVELS IN THE RANGE OF 130 DECIBELS AS THEY WERE AT 285 AND 312. The
early shots should have been louder than the ones that followed, and the
most startling if all the shots had come from Oswald.

The only reason that *some* people heard the shot at 160 is that it hit
the pavement and shattered, causing a "firecracker" sound.

In other words, they closed their minds, David. That's why they got it
wrong.

Why do you want to be like them?

Robert Harris

Phil Ossofee

unread,
Sep 23, 2009, 4:37:29 PM9/23/09
to
I'd like to know how these piece of shit lone nutters ( is there any
other kind?) hehehe would know like instantaneously say, that this woman
is lying. She sure didn't want publicity, so it must be she's cuckoo for
cocoa puffs or she's tellin' the truth. Since the lone nut brigade has
used that screwball argument so much it no longer has any meanng you
gotta come up with something a little more believable. Especially when
we don't know who it is, so go suck on a Mack Truck or a Bugliosi wiener
mobile.

P.S. Vince Bugliosi's book is a worthless stinking piece of shit! And
that's official!

Sam McClung

unread,
Sep 23, 2009, 6:44:26 PM9/23/09
to
"Phil Ossofee" <summersa...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:22325-4AB...@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net...
<snippage>

>
> P.S. Vince Bugliosi's book is a worthless stinking piece of shit! And
> that's official!

makes one wonder how often bug has been a " 'friendly' DA "

Re:
in "I heard You Paint Houses" Sheeran states that New Orleans DA Jim
Garrison who charged Clay Shaw and others with the Kennedy assassination was
actually in the employ of Carlos Marcello and had often done the mob favors
for example prosecuting a critic of Jimmy Hoffa named Walter Sheridan on
trumped up charges. Sheeran further states that 'friendly' DAs are often
employed to help flush out potentially damaging witnesses for elimination.
As Kennedy assassination students know, many witnesses died in the course of
the Garrison prosecution including David Ferrie. . .

ShutterBun

unread,
Sep 23, 2009, 7:49:49 PM9/23/09
to
The "bombshell" witness is undoubtedly Geneva Hine. Read her
testimony and see if there's any room in her story for Oswald standing
next to her during the shooting.
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