Re: THE CRAZY CLAIMS OF JOE O'DONNELL
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/86405c344afd9a8a
JEAN DAVISON SAID:
>>> "And he [Joe O'Donnell] said he'd removed 10 feet from the original Zapruder film after screening it for her [Jackie Kennedy] at the White House. It's not that he was lying, I'm sure. His memory was the liar." <<<
DVP SAID:
Oh, come now, Jean. If Joe O'Donnell wasn't "lying" through his teeth
when he claimed to have removed/edited a large portion of Abraham
Zapruder's original home movie (supposedly on "orders" from Mrs.
Jacqueline Kennedy herself), then what would you call it?
I'm afraid "faulty memory" doesn't cut it when talking about Joe
O'Donnell and several of his nutty claims, including his hilarious
assertion that he HIMSELF edited the Zapruder Film.
BTW, Vincent Bugliosi, in his book "Reclaiming History", has written a
chunk of LOL-inducing text dealing with Mr. O'Donnell's crazy claims.
Here it is:
"In addition to the aluminum probe story, Joe O’Donnell told the
ARRB that [Robert] Knudsen showed him approximately 5 x 7 inch, black-
and-white photographs taken at Kennedy’s autopsy, including some that
showed a grapefruit-size hole in the back of the head, and a 3⁄8-inch
hole in the president’s forehead, above the right eye.
"A few days later, per O’Donnell, Knudsen reportedly showed him
a second set of black-and-white prints—this time the back of the
president’s head was intact and the hole above the right eye was gone!
(ARRB MD 231, Call Report, Telephone Interview of Joe O’Donnell, on
January 29, 1997, p.1)
"Although critics have been quick to embrace O’Donnell’s claims
(e.g., David W. Mantik, “Paradoxes of the JFK Assassination: The
Medical Evidence Decoded,” in Fetzer, Murder in Dealey Plaza, p.245),
O’Donnell is hardly a credible witness.
"In addition to his tale about two sets of autopsy photographs,
O’Donnell claimed to have been at Andrews Air Force Base when the
president’s body arrived, DEMANDED to speak to Mrs. Kennedy (how
likely is this?), and after being granted permission, told her (as she
sat in the navy ambulance with the casket) that he had photographed
the president at Arlington National Cemetery on Veterans Day (November
2) and heard him remark, “I could live up here forever.”
"Mrs. Kennedy reportedly said, “Then that is where we will put
him.” (This is, of course, utter nonsense. Television videotapes show
Mrs. Kennedy entering the navy ambulance and its subsequent departure,
all without a hint of the presence of O’Donnell. More importantly, by
all other accounts, Mrs. Kennedy’s decision to bury the president at
Arlington was made on the flight back from Dallas.)
"As if that wasn’t enough to send most sensible people running,
O’Donnell also claims he showed Mrs. Kennedy the graphic Zapruder film
of her husband’s murder within a few weeks of the assassination.
O’Donnell told the ARRB that no one was present at the screening
except him and Mrs. Kennedy and that after seeing the head shot
sequence, she told him, “I don’t ever want to see that again,” which
O’Donnell took as an “order to alter the film” and remove the head
shot sequence. O’Donnell stated he knew it was wrong but he
subsequently removed ten feet of the film.
"O’Donnell said he was sure he had projected and altered the
original Zapruder film and that it was in a 16-millimeter format. (The
original Zapruder film is in 8-millimeter format and the entire
shooting sequence occupies just 4-and-one-third feet of film.)
"O’Donnell also claimed that Mrs. Kennedy told him that she
scrambled over the trunk of the limousine to retrieve a part of the
president’s head. In fact, Mrs. Kennedy testified that she doesn’t
remember crawling on the trunk, nor does she recall Secret Service
agent Clint Hill coming to her aid. (ARRB MD 231, Call Report,
Telephone Interview of Joe O’Donnell, February 28, 1997, pp.2–3; 5 H
180, WCT Mrs. John F. Kennedy)." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi; Pages 271 and
272 of Endnotes in "Reclaiming History: The Assassination Of President
John F. Kennedy" (W.W. Norton & Co.)(c.2007)
www.HomeTheaterForum.com/htf/3200858-post.html
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md231/html/md231_0001a.htm
lazu...@webtv.net
becomes crazy.
There's a lot of stuff that sounds crazy initially, and for many years
thereafter, decades even, that is true or might be...
David Von Pein
So, Laz, you think Joe O'Donnell removed 10 feet from the original Z-
Film, do you?
If so, how could MPI Home Video possibly have had access to the head-
shot sequence of the film (the same part that O'Donnell claims he
removed in 1963) for MPI's 1998 restoration of the film?
IOW -- Laz will pretty much swallow any tall tale connected with the
events of Nov. 1963.
Right, ol' Laz?
tomnln
WOW! ! !
Even Da BUG ! ! ! !
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fc834664-47c5-45fa...@v4g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/86405c344afd9a8a
JEAN DAVISON SAID:
>>> "And he [Joe O'Donnell] said he'd removed 10 feet from the original
>>> Zapruder film after screening it for her at the White House. It's not
tomnln
Who the heck is "Joe O'Donnell????
No wonder you RAN from the radio debate ! ! ! !
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:cce88796-e51e-4eb6...@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
David Von Pein
>>> "Who the heck is Joe O'Donnell?" <<<
A kook....like you.
David Von Pein
>>> "Is [DVP] referring to Kenneth O'Donnell???" <<<
LOL.
I guess ol' Tom doesn't know as much about the case as he thought he
did.
No, Tom, I'm not referring to Kenny O'Donnell. It's Joe O'Donnell, who
was a Government photographer who decided to lie his ass off years
after the assassination.
Read ARRB's MD231, here:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md231/html/md231_0001a.htm
lazu...@webtv.net
the Autopsy Photos Ok? Nobody that has a smidgeon of honesty gives a
flying fuck at a lightsocket what Bugliosi says.
aeffects
wake up shithead.... you're on the shitend of this stick, as you
normally are. I'm actually beginning to enjoy your dance. As
choreographed as it is. The tu-tu does you no favor, though... carry on
aeffects
> Hey David;
>
> Who the heck is "Joe O'Donnell????
>
> No wonder you RAN from the radio debate ! ! ! !
VonPein can't afford to appear in ANY public venue. Why? Simple, there
are those that have heard the voice of Dave Reitzes-pieces....
> "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:cce88796-e51e-4eb6...@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
lazu...@webtv.net
independenty corroborated each other when they told the HSCA and ARRB
respectively of 2 back of the head photographs-one with the big hole as
seen by everyone from the parkland medical staff to Mortician Tom
Robinson, another apparently, the same picture, but doctored to conceal
the gaping wound. So, for no logical reason they both decided to concoct
this story? Now, what's more plausible? Telling the truth or making up a
crazy story that the offical bodies sure didn't wanna hear? Both
O'Donnell & Knudsen loved JFK BTW ....
David Von Pein
>>> "Hey DVP, you realize that [Robert] Knudsen and [Joe] O'Donnell...independently corroborated each other when they told the HSCA and ARRB...of 2 back-of-the-head photographs--one with the big hole as seen by everyone from the Parkland medical staff to Mortician Tom Robinson, another apparently the same picture but doctored to conceal the gaping wound. So, for no logical reason they both decided to concoct this story?" <<<
Ol' Laz needs a copy of "Reclaiming History" (badly).
"RH" fully explains the various accounts of people supposedly seeing
things in autopsy photographs that all sensible people know beyond all
reasonable doubt they could have NEVER seen.
And a big reason we can know that nobody could have possibly seen any
great-big hole in the back of JFK's head is due to the "stereoscopic"
technique that was used when the HSCA's Photographic Panel examined
the photos.
The stereoscopic findings verify the fact that ANY photos that may
have been seen by people like Robert Knudsen, Joe O'Donnell, and
Saundra Spencer could not POSSIBLY have depicted something COMPLETELY
DIFFERENT from the autopsy photos that are in existence for the public
to look at today.
Here are some pertinent "RH" excerpts (which, naturally, will be
completely ignored and/or brushed aside by all conspiracy-happy
idiots):
"The single most important discovery, and one that establishes
with ABSOLUTE AND IRREFUTABLE CERTAINTY that the autopsy photographs
have not been altered, is the fact that many of the photographs, when
combined in pairs, produce stereoscopic images. ....
"The only way a forger can successfully alter a detailed
stereoscopic image...without detection is to alter both images
IDENTICALLY, which is, [photographic expert and HSCA panel member
Frank] Scott said, "essentially impossible." ....
"The entire photographic panel of the HSCA concluded that "the
autopsy photographs and X-rays were taken of President Kennedy at the
time of his autopsy and that they had not been altered in any manner."
This fact alone demolishes the conspiracy theorists' allegations that
photographic fakery was used to conceal the plot to kill the
president.
"It also destroys another prime conspiracy belief--that the
eyewitness descriptions of the president's wounds that were offered by
the Parkland Hospital doctors (and later by some eyewitnesses to the
autopsy) are proof that the autopsy photographs had been altered.
"Obviously, if the autopsy photographs are genuine and unaltered
(which all the experts agree), then eyewitness descriptions of the
president's wounds that contradict those photographs are not proof of
alteration, as some critics claim, but nothing more than examples of
understandable, mistaken recollections, or if not that, then
deliberate and outright falsehoods. ....
"Yet conspiracy theorists continue to tie themselves in knots
trying to convince their converts not to give up the ship and go home.
In the years since the HSCA’s 1978 investigation, critics have been
reduced to claiming that the autopsy photographs and X-rays have
“somehow” been tampered with. .... That specific “somehow,” of course,
is never explained.
"One critic, Harrison Edward Livingstone, in his ironically
titled book 'Killing the Truth', simply closes his eyes and pretends
the HSCA accomplished nothing, proposing (without a drop of evidence)
that the HSCA photographic panel “overlooked various matters and was
seriously flawed in its [authentication] work. There was nothing
‘scientific’ about their examination” (Livingstone, Killing the Truth,
p.74).
"Livingstone claims, on one hand, that researchers have not been
granted access to the relevant pairs of autopsy photographs that
produce stereoscopic images in order to check the integrity of the
images (“We are expected to take this on faith,” he writes), yet in
the very next sentence admits that two autopsy photographs published
in his book 'High Treason 2' “can produce a stereoscopic
view” (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p.74).
"In fact, as Livingstone should know, all of the key autopsy
photographs that show the president’s wounds, copies of which have
been published in bootlegged form in a variety of conspiracy books
(including Livingstone’s), produce stereoscopic images. ....
[Regarding the tale of Saundra Kay Spencer:]
"But assuming, for the sake of argument, that Spencer’s
testimony is accurate and the photos she saw of the president’s head
were taken after the cosmetic surgery that the embalmers did to
reconstruct the president’s head following the autopsy (1 HSCA 330–
331), so what? What possible sinister inference can possibly be drawn
therefrom?
"Assuming there was this “second” set of autopsy photos showing
the president cleaned up, how could this change the condition of the
president’s head as witnessed by the three autopsy surgeons and as
shown by the only photos that count—the first set of photos of the
president that everyone else (Chief Justice Warren, the HSCA forensic
pathology panel, illustrator Ida Dox, the Clark Panel, etc.) saw
depicting his fatal wounds before the second set was taken?
"When one recognizes this reality about Spencer’s testimony, one
can only conclude that her recollections after thirty-four years were
either very faulty, or correct but of absolutely no significance. ....
"There is little reason to place importance in these kinds of
accounts of a few allegedly missing or altered photographs. Why?
Because they can’t possibly show something that contradicts what is
depicted in the many photographs that DO exist and are available.
"More importantly, as I’ve stated frequently, the photographic
experts of the HSCA unanimously agreed that the existing photographs
(and accompanying X-rays) were authentic and depicted the president’s
body as it was on the night of the autopsy. And they prove beyond ANY
DOUBT that the president was shot from ABOVE AND BEHIND. Consequently,
any missing or “altered” photographs CANNOT show something else, as
the conspiracy theorists claim." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Via various
endnotes in "Reclaiming History" (c.2007)
aeffects
...
> "More importantly, as I’ve stated frequently, the photographic
> experts of the HSCA unanimously agreed that the existing photographs
> (and accompanying X-rays) were authentic and depicted the president’s
> body as it was on the night of the autopsy.
ROTFLMFAO....
And they prove beyond ANY
> DOUBT that the president was shot from ABOVE AND BEHIND. Consequently,
> any missing or “altered” photographs CANNOT show something else, as
> the conspiracy theorists claim." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Via various
> endnotes in "Reclaiming History" (c.2007)
>
your diatribes are about as worthless as a wetdream.... let Vin know,
eh. How is Rosemary these days, btw? LMFAO!
David Von Pein
>>> "How is Rosemary these days, btw?" <<<
You mean to say she hasn't contacted you yet about that prime-time CBS/
ABC/NBC/CNN simulcast that you are going to arrange, with David G.
Healy, VB, and myself center-stage?!
Gee, I can't believe that Rosemary and Vince weren't knocking down
your door about that major media event.
BTW, Healy, it looks like somebody's been using your name when
responding to one of Dale Myers' Internet Blogspot articles:
www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=740402724246726837&postID=152783484018577672
Or have you, Mr. Crackpipe, flipped sides and now think that Dale is a
crackerjack researcher?
justm...@gmail.com
> >>> "How is Rosemary these days, btw?" <<<
>
> You mean to say she hasn't contacted you yet about that prime-time CBS/
> ABC/NBC/CNN simulcast that you are going to arrange, with David G.
> Healy, VB, and myself center-stage?!
>
> Gee, I can't believe that Rosemary and Vince weren't knocking down
> your door about that major media event.
>
> BTW, Healy, it looks like somebody's been using your name when
> responding to one of Dale Myers' Internet Blogspot articles:
>
>
> Or have you, Mr. Crackpipe, flipped sides and now think that Dale is a
> crackerjack researcher?
well, well, isn't that interesting? What will master Bennie Yellow
Pants Holmes think of his lap dog betraying him? LMAO
aeffects
> >>> "How is Rosemary these days, btw?" <<<
>
> You mean to say she hasn't contacted you yet about that prime-time CBS/
> ABC/NBC/CNN simulcast that you are going to arrange, with David G.
> Healy, VB, and myself center-stage?!
>
> Gee, I can't believe that Rosemary and Vince weren't knocking down
> your door about that major media event.
>
> BTW, Healy, it looks like somebody's been using your name when
> responding to one of Dale Myers' Internet Blogspot articles:
>
>
> Or have you, Mr. Crackpipe, flipped sides and now think that Dale is a
> crackerjack researcher?
as a master of deception, deceit and ALIASES it doesn't take much of a
stretch to figure out, you shithead are capable of most anything....
Myers is still a world class dipshit, unworthy of an EMMY Award
regardless of catagory... so if you will please inform Rosemary and
Vin like a the good little shithead you are....
aeffects
wrote:
the Nutters still don't talk to you do they asshole..... ROTFLMFAO
(except Rob Spencer St. John Fisher College NY.)
David Von Pein
>>> "as [sic] a master of deception, deceit and ALIASES[,] it doesn't take much of a stretch to figure out, you shithead [sic] are capable of most anything...." <<<
Whoever it was who performed the "David G. Healy" imitation at Dale
Myers' Blogspot page did a nice job of mimicking Mr. Crackpipe's
incoherent speech patterns. There are four mistakes in that very short
comment.
www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=740402724246726837&postID=152783484018577672
>>> "Myers is still a world[-]class dipshit, unworthy of an EMMY Award[,] regardless of catagory [sic]... so if you will please inform Rosemary and Vin[,] like a [sic] the good little shithead you are...." <<<
Only 8 total mistakes in Healy's last post. Not bad for Mister
Crackpipe.
BTW, I thought I was Rosemary....and VB.
As previously requested -- make up your mind, retard.
aeffects
> >>> "as [sic] a master of deception, deceit and ALIASES[,] it doesn't take much of a stretch to figure out, you shithead [sic] are capable of most anything...." <<<
>
> Whoever it was who performed the "David G. Healy" imitation at Dale
> Myers' Blogspot page did a nice job of mimicking Mr. Crackpipe's
> incoherent speech patterns. There are four mistakes in that very short
> comment.
>
>
> >>> "Myers is still a world[-]class dipshit, unworthy of an EMMY Award[,] regardless of catagory [sic]... so if you will please inform Rosemary and Vin[,] like a [sic] the good little shithead you are...." <<<
>
> Only 8 total mistakes in Healy's last post. Not bad for Mister
> Crackpipe.
>
> BTW, I thought I was Rosemary....and VB.
>
> As previously requested -- make up your mind, retard.
your humiliation is noted, shithead.... now back to what you know less
about, the Kennedy assassination.... stand-by lurkers, the troll
shithead is about to bless us with 2000 more copy and paste
pieces..... regurgitated shit is still SBT SHIT, hon!
Carry on!
tomnln
>
>
>>>> "Who the heck is Joe O'Donnell?" <<<
>
>
> A kook....like you.
You KOOK-SUCKERS would Starve without us ! ! !
(Sorry for the typo)
Tell everyone WHY you RAN from the radio debate Gutless?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lazu...@webtv.net
back of JFK's head, Mortician Tom Robinson saw a big hole in the back of
JFK's head, X-Ray Tech jerrol Custer saw a big hole in the back of JFK's
head, the Parkland Doctors saw a big hole in the back of JFK's head on
and on, you think something might be just a tad wrong with those photos?
I tell you this,Bugliosi,Von Pein, Baden, Posner, McAdams, & Fiorentino
are so totally 110% wrong so unthinking, so robotic, so devious and full
of themselves ...that the roto rooter men are coming...