David Von Pein - Dishonest Kook!!

[Ben Holmes]

Taken from his website:

**************************************************
I wonder if anybody has yet figured out a way for a high-speed bullet
entering John F. Kennedy's head from the RIGHT-FRONT (i.e., Grassy
Knoll), per many/most CTer beliefs, to leave behind a huge gaping hole
in the FAR-RIGHT-REAR of JFK's head, and yet have this Magical Missile
(somehow!) LEAVE THE SCALP IN THE BACK OF KENNEDY'S HEAD
COMPLETELY INTACT AND UNDAMAGED IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.

Has anyone been able to figure out this mystery yet? I sure haven't.
Other than to say the obvious -- The CTers who believe this are nuts!
**************************************************

Did anyone notice?

The kook mixed up what many CT'ers believe right alongside something that
virtually *NO* CT'er believes.

You see, only LNT'ers in CT'ers clothing believe that the right rear of JFK's
head had undamaged scalp.

Rather dishonest trickery on David's part, isn't it?


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com

[Bud]

On Dec 28, 4:53 pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
> Taken from his website:
>
> **************************************************
> I wonder if anybody has yet figured out a way for a high-speed bullet
> entering John F. Kennedy's head from the RIGHT-FRONT (i.e., Grassy
> Knoll), per many/most CTer beliefs, to leave behind a huge gaping hole
> in the FAR-RIGHT-REAR of JFK's head, and yet have this Magical Missile
> (somehow!) LEAVE THE SCALP IN THE BACK OF KENNEDY'S HEAD
> COMPLETELY INTACT AND UNDAMAGED IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.
>
> Has anyone been able to figure out this mystery yet? I sure haven't.
> Other than to say the obvious -- The CTers who believe this are nuts!
> **************************************************
>
> Did anyone notice?
>
> The kook mixed up what many CT'ers believe right alongside something that
> virtually *NO* CT'er believes.
>
> You see, only LNT'ers in CT'ers clothing believe that the right rear of JFK's
> head had undamaged scalp.
>
> Rather dishonest trickery on David's part, isn't it?

Why don`t you put your beliefs on the table so nobody makes this
mistake again?

I could use a good laugh.

[aeffects]

On Dec 28, 2:36 pm, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
> On Dec 28, 4:53 pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Taken from his website:
>
> > **************************************************
> > I wonder if anybody has yet figured out a way for a high-speed bullet
> > entering John F. Kennedy's head from the RIGHT-FRONT (i.e., Grassy
> > Knoll), per many/most CTer beliefs, to leave behind a huge gaping hole
> > in the FAR-RIGHT-REAR of JFK's head, and yet have this Magical Missile
> > (somehow!) LEAVE THE SCALP IN THE BACK OF KENNEDY'S HEAD
> > COMPLETELY INTACT AND UNDAMAGED IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.
>
> > Has anyone been able to figure out this mystery yet? I sure haven't.
> > Other than to say the obvious -- The CTers who believe this are nuts!
> > **************************************************
>
> > Did anyone notice?
>
> > The kook mixed up what many CT'ers believe right alongside something that
> > virtually *NO* CT'er believes.
>
> > You see, only LNT'ers in CT'ers clothing believe that the right rear of JFK's
> > head had undamaged scalp.
>
> > Rather dishonest trickery on David's part, isn't it?
>
>   Why don`t you put your beliefs on the table so nobody makes this
> mistake again?
>
>   I could use a good laugh.

clumsey, you have been beat, the 45 questions took lone nut self-
righteous assholes out of the debate.... now THAT was a well earned
laugh.... yet here you are still pleading for Von Pein and his dipso
website sites to rescue you... just goes to show a college education
doesn't cut it for many flag wavers and those of the WCR faith....
carry on hon!

[Bud]

<snicker> Ben Holmes debate ideas? Next you`ll be claiming you can
write a coherent sentence.

> now THAT was a well earned
> laugh.... yet here you are still pleading for Von Pein and his dipso
> website sites to rescue you...

You mean the website Ben frequents? First he becomes a aajfk poster,
now he is lurking LN websites. Next thing you know he`ll be quoting
Posner.

[timstter]

You've obviously misunderstood what he wrote.

You are, after all, a dishonest kook yourself, believing in debunked
nonsense like Zapruder film alteration, LOL!

Seasonal Regards,

Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*

[Walt]

On Dec 28, 3:53 pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
> Taken from his website:
>
> **************************************************
> I wonder if anybody has yet figured out a way for a high-speed bullet
> entering John F. Kennedy's head from the RIGHT-FRONT (i.e., Grassy
> Knoll), per many/most CTer beliefs, to leave behind a huge gaping hole
> in the FAR-RIGHT-REAR of JFK's head, and yet have this Magical Missile
> (somehow!) LEAVE THE SCALP IN THE BACK OF KENNEDY'S HEAD
> COMPLETELY INTACT AND UNDAMAGED IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.
>
> Has anyone been able to figure out this mystery yet? I sure haven't.
> Other than to say the obvious -- The CTers who believe this are nuts!
> **************************************************
>
> Did anyone notice?
>
> The kook mixed up what many CT'ers believe right alongside something that
> virtually *NO* CT'er believes.
>
> You see, only LNT'ers in CT'ers clothing believe that the right rear of JFK's
> head had undamaged scalp.
>
> Rather dishonest trickery on David's part, isn't it?

Ben, I heard Clint Hill say that President Kennedy had a bullet hole
in his right temple, and a huge hole in the back of his head. At the
time that Clint Hill said that he'd seen a bullet hole in JFK's right
temple, he pointed to his own temple to make it clear exactly where
he'd seen the bullet hole.

Secret Service agent Clint Hill was the first person to see JFK's
wounds after the ambush.

Anybody who says that there wasn't a large exit wound at the rear of
JFK's head is a liar..... Some are liars by design, while others are
liars because they're too lazy to open their eyes and examine the
evidence.

David Von Pea Brain wrote:...."I wonder if anybody has yet figured out

a way for a high-speed bullet entering John F. Kennedy's head from the
RIGHT-FRONT (i.e., Grassy Knoll), per many/most CTer beliefs, to leave
behind a huge gaping hole in the FAR-RIGHT-REAR of JFK's head, and yet
have this Magical Missile (somehow!) LEAVE THE SCALP IN THE BACK OF
KENNEDY'S HEAD COMPLETELY INTACT AND UNDAMAGED IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER."

Clint Hill is NOT a CT..... He saw the wounds with his own eyes, and
he'd denounce DVP's lies in a heart beat.

[David Von Pein]

Somebody had better tell Walt The Kook that Clint Hill is ALSO on
record saying the large wound in JFK's head was located above the
right ear.

[bigdog]

On Dec 28, 5:36 pm, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
> On Dec 28, 4:53 pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Taken from his website:
>
> > **************************************************
> > I wonder if anybody has yet figured out a way for a high-speed bullet
> > entering John F. Kennedy's head from the RIGHT-FRONT (i.e., Grassy
> > Knoll), per many/most CTer beliefs, to leave behind a huge gaping hole
> > in the FAR-RIGHT-REAR of JFK's head, and yet have this Magical Missile
> > (somehow!) LEAVE THE SCALP IN THE BACK OF KENNEDY'S HEAD
> > COMPLETELY INTACT AND UNDAMAGED IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.
>
> > Has anyone been able to figure out this mystery yet? I sure haven't.
> > Other than to say the obvious -- The CTers who believe this are nuts!
> > **************************************************
>
> > Did anyone notice?
>
> > The kook mixed up what many CT'ers believe right alongside something that
> > virtually *NO* CT'er believes.
>
> > You see, only LNT'ers in CT'ers clothing believe that the right rear of JFK's
> > head had undamaged scalp.
>
> > Rather dishonest trickery on David's part, isn't it?
>
>   Why don`t you put your beliefs on the table so nobody makes this
> mistake again?
>
>   I could use a good laugh.
>

That would require courage. That isn't in Benny's tool box.

[David Von Pein]

That quote of mine was written to illustrate (in more of a general and
over-the-top fashion) that the things that a lot of CTers believe are
simply untrue--and provably untrue--such as the belief that there was
ANY blow-out or major damage to the right-rear of JFK's head, period.
(Whether it be scalp or skull.)

I suppose Ben is probably correct when he says that most CTers who
think there WAS a large blow-out of the right-rear SKULL also think
there was a similar blow-out of the right-rear SCALP too.

But I think that even a conspiracy clown like Benjamin could easily
see where I was going with that quote -- i.e., I was emphasizing the
provable fact that there there was NO blow-out of the right-rear
portion of JFK's head at all--including both scalp and skull.

[Ben Holmes]

In article <55659c85-6471-460d...@a17g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
aeffects says...
>
>On Dec 28, 2:36=A0pm, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:

>> On Dec 28, 4:53=A0pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Taken from his website:
>>
>> > **************************************************
>> > I wonder if anybody has yet figured out a way for a high-speed bullet
>> > entering John F. Kennedy's head from the RIGHT-FRONT (i.e., Grassy
>> > Knoll), per many/most CTer beliefs, to leave behind a huge gaping hole
>> > in the FAR-RIGHT-REAR of JFK's head, and yet have this Magical Missile
>> > (somehow!) LEAVE THE SCALP IN THE BACK OF KENNEDY'S HEAD
>> > COMPLETELY INTACT AND UNDAMAGED IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.
>>
>> > Has anyone been able to figure out this mystery yet? I sure haven't.
>> > Other than to say the obvious -- The CTers who believe this are nuts!
>> > **************************************************
>>
>> > Did anyone notice?
>>
>> > The kook mixed up what many CT'ers believe right alongside something
>> > that virtually *NO* CT'er believes.
>>
>> > You see, only LNT'ers in CT'ers clothing believe that the right rear
>> > of JFK's head had undamaged scalp.
>>
>> > Rather dishonest trickery on David's part, isn't it?
>>
>> Why don`t you put your beliefs on the table so nobody makes this
>> mistake again?

Read Douglas Horne's five volume set. He does a fairly good job.

>> I could use a good laugh.

Try looking at your desperate attempts to give credible non-conspiratorial
explanations for the evidence... that'll give *anyone* a good laugh.

>clumsey, you have been beat, the 45 questions took lone nut self-
>righteous assholes out of the debate.... now THAT was a well earned
>laugh.... yet here you are still pleading for Von Pein and his dipso
>website sites to rescue you... just goes to show a college education
>doesn't cut it for many flag wavers and those of the WCR faith....
>carry on hon!

I didn't bother reading any more of DVP's webpage than the small snippet I gave
above... no doubt the rest of the page is just as silly.

[Ben Holmes]

In article <b9dd6f23-a346-4618...@d8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
Walt says...

I'm merely pointing out that DVP is pretending he can't understand by lying
about what CT'ers accept as historical.

To pretend that CT'ers think that the BOH photo reflects historical reality is a
stretch that he has to KNOW is a lie.

[David Von Pein]

BEN HOLMES SAID:

>>> "To pretend that CT'ers think that the BOH photo reflects historical reality is a stretch that he [DVP] has to KNOW is a lie." <<<



DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Well, there's at least one "CTer" who thinks JFK's skull was blown out
in the right-rear, but (miraculously) also thinks the rear SCALP of
the President was left totally intact. That witness is Robert
McClelland.

You can see McClelland himself talk about this very odd belief at the
beginning of Part 6 of the video series below. And Drs. Dulany and
Peters say just about the same thing in that same PBS program.

http://DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/02/who-shot-president-kennedy.html

And Dr. McClelland, incredibly, is on film saying these things even
though he has ALSO said that he was able to look STRAIGHT DOWN into
the wound from his position at the head of JFK's stretcher at
Parkland.

Which, of course, would have to mean, if McClelland is correct, that
the right-rear SCALP of Kennedy must have been blown out as well, in
order for anyone to see down inside the huge BOH wound -- even though
JFK was flat on his back the whole time and it would have been
virtually impossible for McClelland to look straight down into a wound
in the back of JFK's head in the manner McClelland has described in
multiple interviews since 1963.

In other words, Dr. McClelland's observations are a complete mess and
a maze of contradictory statements.

And, amazingly, even host Walter Cronkite himself says in that same
video that the autopsy photos DO show a great-big blasted-out area in
the right-rear of JFK's head, which couldn't be more incorrect,
because there isn't a single autopsy photo or X-ray that shows any
blow-out of the right-rear part of JFK's head.

http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/parkland-doctors-on-pbs-tv-in-1988.html

http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2011/05/robert-mcclelland.html

[Bud]

On Dec 28, 11:50 pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
> In article <55659c85-6471-460d-972a-baea3d5a8...@a17g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,

> aeffects says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Dec 28, 2:36=A0pm, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
> >> On Dec 28, 4:53=A0pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
>
> >> > Taken from his website:
>
> >> > **************************************************
> >> > I wonder if anybody has yet figured out a way for a high-speed bullet
> >> > entering John F. Kennedy's head from the RIGHT-FRONT (i.e., Grassy
> >> > Knoll), per many/most CTer beliefs, to leave behind a huge gaping hole
> >> > in the FAR-RIGHT-REAR of JFK's head, and yet have this Magical Missile
> >> > (somehow!) LEAVE THE SCALP IN THE BACK OF KENNEDY'S HEAD
> >> > COMPLETELY INTACT AND UNDAMAGED IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.
>
> >> > Has anyone been able to figure out this mystery yet? I sure haven't.
> >> > Other than to say the obvious -- The CTers who believe this are nuts!
> >> > **************************************************
>
> >> > Did anyone notice?
>
> >> > The kook mixed up what many CT'ers believe right alongside something
> >> > that virtually *NO* CT'er believes.
>
> >> > You see, only LNT'ers in CT'ers clothing believe that the right rear
> >> > of JFK's head had undamaged scalp.
>
> >> > Rather dishonest trickery on David's part, isn't it?
>
> >> Why don`t you put your beliefs on the table so nobody makes this
> >> mistake again?
>
> Read Douglas Horne's five volume set. He does a fairly good job.

<snicker> I knew you`d run. You are afraid to put your ridiculous
beliefs on the table. Most CTers are, with Walt Cakebread being the
exception (apparently Walt doesn`t care who knows how retarded he is).

> >> I could use a good laugh.
>
> Try looking at your desperate attempts to give credible non-conspiratorial
> explanations for the evidence... that'll give *anyone* a good laugh.

Nice misdirection, still hoping the lurkers are stupid?

> >clumsey, you have been beat, the 45 questions took lone nut self-
> >righteous assholes out of the debate.... now THAT was a well earned
> >laugh.... yet here you are still pleading for Von Pein and his dipso
> >website sites to rescue you... just goes to show a college education
> >doesn't cut it for many flag wavers and those of the WCR faith....
> >carry on hon!
>
> I didn't bother reading any more of DVP's webpage than the small snippet I gave
> above... no doubt the rest of the page is just as silly.

The difference being he is man enough to put his beliefs on the
table.

[aeffects]

On Dec 28, 10:12 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

<snip>

can't hide fool.....

[lazu...@webtv.net]

The title is apt, but I shudder the thought...he's actually one of the
better nutters...Laz

[Ben Holmes]

In article <6192-4EF...@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net>, lazu...@webtv.net
says...

>
>The title is apt, but I shudder the thought...he's actually one of the
>better nutters...Laz

Perhaps so, because he *IS* willing to debate the evidence.

The problem is that he runs away from points raised about the evidence that he
can't admit, and simply forgets he ever learned about it...

Or, as in this case, dishonestly combined what LNT'ers believe with what CT'ers
accept in order to produce a deceptively dishonest impossibility.

[lazu...@webtv.net]

Ben-I thnk it was Walt who said" there's no such thing as an honest lone
nutter" a few years back...and truer words were never spoken...Laz

[lazu...@webtv.net]

Of course you have a lot of conspiracy theorists who act as if it's
sport to trash witnesses who can lead to the truth of Dallas, but oh no
we can't have that, anything but...gee we can't believe Howard Hunt's
confession...gee we can't believe LBJ's involvement..gee we can't
believe Billie Sol Estes...Gee we can't believe anything Gerry Hemming
says...gee we can't believe General Walker was involved...gee we can't
believe Roscoe White was involved..gee we can't believe Marcello's
confession or Roselli's...gee we can't believe Marita Lorenz..etc..my
regard for Authors has only grown in stature, but the quality of person
has really went to hell on the JFK Boards and many are doing every bit
as much damage as the nutters...Laz

[lazu...@webtv.net]

I'm not singling anyone out-I'm just talking of mindsets.

What has become clear to me is that although Intelligence was clearly
behind the framing of Oswald, and heavily involved in the Assassination
and at a high level, they were not as directly responsible for the
shooters- over and over we see a pattern and that pattern is-the mob is
heavily involved in financing the shooting and sending hit men to Dallas
and likewise-Gen. Walker and confederates around Walker planned the
logistics of the Assassination, and financing came from the big oil
men...I don't take anyone's single word for it as fact, but when you
start getting at least 4 separate people in a definite position to know,
as we do for each of the combined scenarios... then you have to take it
seriously if truth is the objective.

[David Von Pein]

BEN HOLMES SAID:

>>> "He [David Von Pein]...dishonestly combined what LNT'ers believe with what CT'ers accept in order to produce a deceptively dishonest impossibility." <<<

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Ben needs to take a good look at Dr. Robert McClelland's crazy
beliefs. Because McClelland is on record saying things that most
certainly place him in the following categories (whether McClelland
realizes he's in all of these categories or not). And my guess is that
there are probably some additional people in the world who have
decided to ride McClelland's coattails and therefore also fall into
each of these categories as well:

1.) Robert McClelland is definitely a "CTer". (We know this for a fact
by listening to his 80-minute interview in 2009, where he talks at
some length about how he thinks the "mob" killed Kennedy and utilized
Oswald as a patsy, etc.)

2.) McClelland thinks the fatal head shot came from the famous Grassy
Knoll. (This, too, is revealed in the doctor's 2009 interview.)

3.) McClelland does not think the autopsy photos are fakes.

4.) McClelland thinks the scalp in the back of JFK's head was intact
(just as depicted in the autopsy photo).

5.) McClelland thinks that there was a huge blasted-out hole in the
right-rear of JFK's skull.

----------

Now, maybe Holmes would like to call me a liar again.

If so, I can always repeat the above five items, which indicate beyond
all doubt that a conspiracy theorist named Robert Nelson McClelland is
actually nutty enough to believe in an intact REAR SCALP but a blown-
out REAR SKULL.

McClelland has obviously never even once thought about how silly and
impossible his theory is. Because if he ever stopped to think about it
for any length of time at all, he could never even begin to believe
that a bullet could have created a massive blown-out exit wound in the
occipital area of a human skull and yet leave the scalp in that same
occipital area totally free of any injury. And yet that is EXACTLY
what Dr. McClelland said he believes happened.

http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2011/05/robert-mcclelland.html

-----------------

But other than McClelland's crazy BOH double-talk and his
unsupportable "Mob" theory, his 2009 interview is totally fascinating.

Did you know that Dr. McClelland was involved in the medical care of
John F. Kennedy, John Connally, Lee Harvey Oswald, AND Abraham
Zapruder? (He operated on Zapruder several years after the JFK
assassination.)

[Ben Holmes]

In article <18447-4E...@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net>, lazu...@webtv.net
says...

>
>Ben-I thnk it was Walt who said" there's no such thing as an honest lone
>nutter" a few years back...and truer words were never spoken...Laz

I think it's possible to be an honest lone nutter - but it's directly
proportional to how much they know about the evidence.

To be honest, they know virtually nothing of the evidence.

Once they start digging into the evidence, the more they learn, the more
dishonest they must be to retain their faith.

Based on this assertion then, John McAdams, DVP & Bud (as just a few examples
that come to mind) are some of the most dishonest folks around on these forums.

They're willing to lie at the drop of a hat to defend their faith.

[aeffects]

On Dec 31, 4:59 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> BEN HOLMES SAID:
>
> >>> "He [David Von Pein]...dishonestly combined what LNT'ers believe with what CT'ers accept in order to produce a deceptively dishonest impossibility." <<<
>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
> Ben needs to take a good look at Dr. Robert McClelland's crazy
> beliefs. Because McClelland is on record saying things that most
> certainly place him in the following categories (whether McClelland
> realizes he's in all of these categories or not). And my guess is that
> there are probably some additional people in the world who have
> decided to ride McClelland's coattails and therefore also fall into
> each of these categories as well:
>
> 1.) Robert McClelland is definitely a "CTer". (We know this for a fact
> by listening to his 80-minute interview in 2009, where he talks at
> some length about how he thinks the "mob" killed Kennedy and utilized
> Oswald as a patsy, etc.)

What Robert McClelland definitely is is a *doctor*, a MD, you moron.
And if, IF he's a CT I suspect its from being a first hand eye witness
and participant in events at parkland hospital as well a one whom came
to his own opinions as to the who, whats, when where's and why's
concerning the assassination... you're sounding like a cornered hussy
there hon, caught with her hand in the cookie jar, Bugliosi's cookie
jar...

[lazu...@webtv.net]

Dr. McClelland was 18 inches away! He had an excellent bird's eye view
for many minutes...this is just why lone nut fanatics are slimy bastards
or if you prefer dishonest pieces of shit...Laz

[Ben Holmes]

In article <5feaea9b-dd81-4b7e...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
aeffects says...

>
>On Dec 31, 4:59=A0am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>> BEN HOLMES SAID:
>>

>> >>> "He [David Von Pein]...dishonestly combined what LNT'ers believe with=
> what CT'ers accept in order to produce a deceptively dishonest impossibili=
>ty." <<<
>>
>> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:



Let me guess... you never admitted that you were lying, did you?

[David Von Pein]

BEN HOLMES SAID:

>>> "Let me guess... you never admitted that you were lying, did you?" <<<

DVP SAID:

No, of course not, Mr. Kook. Because I didn't lie. And, in fact, I
even presented PROOF that you are wrong when you attempted to call me
a liar and when you attempted to paint all CTers with one brush in the
"scalp/skull" regard (although you did use the word "virtually" in
your opening post, but you were definitely painting your fellow
conspiracy-happy clowns with one brush in a later post).

And that proof I presented was Dr. Bob McClelland, who is a witness I
know you CT-Kooks love. There's no denying the fact you love his
story.

But the truth is that McClelland believes something that is totally
impossible. He thinks JFK's right-rear SKULL was blown out, but he
also thinks JFK's right-rear SCALP was left untouched by the bullet
that McClelland thinks came from the Grassy Knoll.

Surely even a retarded featherhead like Ben Holmes can see how utterly
stupid and impossible McClelland's theory is.

But as far as I know, Robert McClelland has never been asked the
following question:

Dr. McClelland, since you have said in previous interviews that you
believe the fatal head shot to JFK's head came from the Grassy
Knoll....how, then, can the following two things possibly co-exist in
this case (which are things you are also on record saying that you
believe are true) -- The right-rear of Kennedy's SKULL was blasted out
and the right-rear SCALP of JFK was left totally intact?

---------------------------------

ADDENDUM:

PASSAGE FROM VINCENT BUGLIOSI'S BOOK "RECLAIMING HISTORY" (REGARDING
DR. ROBERT N. McCLELLAND):


"When I spoke over the telephone to Dr. McClelland in late
September and early October of 2002, McClelland, a respected Dallas
surgeon whom no one accuses of trying to
deliberately mislead anyone, only of being completely wrong in what he
thought he saw
(the most honest people in the world can think they saw the darndest
things), said he was positive the president had a "massive hole to the
back of his head."

He said at the time of his observation he was holding a metal
retractor that was pulling the skin away from the president's trachea
so Drs. Perry and Carrico could perform their tracheotomy. "I had
nothing else to do or to distract me so I fixated on this large,
gaping hole to the back of the president's head for ten to twelve
minutes."

When I wondered how he could see the large hole when the
president was always lying on his back, he said the wound was so large
that he nevertheless could see "most of it." If what he said was true,
I asked, how is it possible that on the Zapruder film itself, the
explosion is clearly to the right frontal portion of the president's
head with a large amount of brain matter spraying out, and the back of
his head appears to be completely intact?

Dr. McClelland gave an answer that deserves some type of an
award for inventiveness: "What the explanation for this is, I just
don't know, but what I believe happened is that the spray of brain
matter and blood was kind of like a bloodscreen, similar to a
smokescreen, that precluded a clear view of the occipital area."

If, I pursued the matter, the exit wound was to the back of the
president's head, where was the entrance wound for this bullet?
McClelland, who believes the shot to the head came from the grassy
knoll, said he believed the president was struck "around the hairline
near the middle of his forehead."

If that was so, I asked, how was it that seventeen pathologists,
including Dr. Wecht, all agreed that the president was only struck
twice, both times from the rear, and none of them—from photographs, X-
rays, and personal observation (by the three autopsy surgeons)—saw any
entrance wound to the president's forehead?

Again, McClelland, who acknowledged, "I'm not a pathologist and
I've never conducted an autopsy," said, "I don 't know the answer to
your question." But he remained sincerely inventive in his
imagination. "What I believe happened is that none of the pathologists
saw the entrance wound because it became a part of the destruction to
the whole right side and top of the president's head. In other words,
it was no longer a separate hole that could be identified."

(Of course, none of the autopsy photographs show any such
massive injury to the president's forehead extending to the right side
of his head, and none is referred to in the autopsy report, nor in the
reports of the Clark Panel and Rockefeller Commission. As the HSCA
said, "There is no evidence that the president was struck by a bullet
entering the front of his head.")

"So you do acknowledge," I said, "the explosion to the right
front part of the president's head?" "Oh, yes," the doctor said, "but
that's not where the bullet exited. It exited in the occipital region
of his head, leaving a hole so big I could put my fist in it."

When I pointed out to the doctor again that not only didn't the
Zapruder film show any large hole to the back of the president's head
but autopsy photographs never showed any large hole there either, he
said that although it was pure "supposition" on his part, at the time
the photographs were taken, someone "could have pulled a flap of the
president's skin, attached to the base of his neck, forward," thereby
covering the large defect. When I asked him if he saw any such loose
flap of skin at Parkland, he acknowledged, "I did not."

It was getting late in the evening, Dallas time, but before I
ended the interview I reminded Dr. McClelland of the fact that in his
Parkland Hospital admission note at 4:45 p.m. on the day of the
assassination, he had written that the president died "from a gunshot
wound of the left temple." "Yes," he said, "that was a mistake. I
never saw any wound to the president's left temple. Dr. Jenkins had
told me there was a wound there, though he later denied telling me
this."

Since there was no bullet wound to the left side of the
president's body, and since the conspiracy theorists allege that
Kennedy was shot from the grassy knoll to his right front, conspiracy
author Robert Groden solves the problem and avoids having his star
witness, Dr. McClelland, look very confused and non-credible simply by
changing McClelland's words "left temple" to "right temple" in his
book, 'The Killing of a President'.

When I called Dr. McClelland the following evening to discuss
further one of the
points he had made, he quickly told me he was glad I had called
because "since we hung up last night, I've had some second thoughts
about the exact location of the exit wound." Unlike the many
conspiracy theorists who have exploited Dr. McClelland 's obvious
errors to their benefit, he told me, "I don't question the integrity
of all the pathologists who disagree with me" (he wasn't so kind to
his colleague, Dr. Charles Crenshaw: "Chuck had a lot of problems and
fabricated a lot of things"), saying, for instance, that he and the
three autopsy surgeons were "obviously looking at the same head and
the same wound," but that the area on the head where they placed the
wound differed because of "the different positions from which we
viewed it and also because of the different interpretations of what we
saw, which is normal."

But he made a major concession in an effort to reconcile his
position with theirs. "I have to say that the sketch I first drew for
Josiah Thompson's book a few years after the assassination was
misleading. Since last night, I've been thinking that I placed the
large hole in the president's head farther back than it really was,
maybe. It may have been a bit more forward."

When I asked him where he now put it, he said, "Partially in the
occipital region and partly in the right back part of the parietal
bone" (which I told him was actually consistent with the original
position he took in his Warren Commission testimony), but he still
insisted that this large exit wound was not to the right frontal area
of the president's skull as concluded by all the pathologists.

Dr. McClelland told me he believes there were two gunmen, Oswald
and someone else, and further believes that "the CIA and FBI, mostly
the CIA, were behind the conspiracy to kill Kennedy, and they brought
in the Mafia, who carried out the killing."

He said he didn't know but suspects that "the Warren Commission
covered up the conspiracy." On that note, I thanked the good doctor
for his time and bid him a good night." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi; Pages
405-407 of "Reclaiming History: The Assassination Of President John F.
Kennedy" (c.2007)

http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2011/05/robert-mcclelland.html

http://DavidVonPein.blogspot.com

[aeffects]

On Jan 1, 8:57 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

...

>
> And that proof I presented was Dr. Bob McClelland, who is a witness I
> know you CT-Kooks love.

...

yet you CONTINUE to LIE -- you sir are a disgrace to the word truth...
again and again you post WCR-Bugliosi nonsense by the yard, expecting
thinking people will buy into your bullshit--you need nothing short of
a full psychic change, son...

[David Von Pein]

Are you calling McClelland a liar, Crackhead (Healy)?