CE 573 "Walker Bullet" NOT Walker Bullet

[Gil Jesus]

Walker to FBI:

"The bullet before your select committee called the Walker bullet is
not the Walker bullet. It is not the bullet that was fired at me and
taken out of my house by the Dallas City Police on April 10, 1963. The
bullet you have was not gotten from me or taken out of my house by
anyone at anytime."

Walker then sends a mailogram to Blakey that the bullet recovered was
nothing more than a hunk of lead that didn't even resemble a bullet:

"The bullet used and pictured on the TV by US Senate G.Robert Blakey
Committee on Assassinations is a ridiculous substitute for a bullet
completely mutilated by such obstruction, baring no resemblance to any
unfired bullet in shape or form.

I saw the hunk of lead, picked up by a policeman in my house, and I
took it from him and I inspected it carefully. There is no mistake.
There has been a substitution for the bullet fired by Oswald and taken
out of my house."

In a June,1979 letter to a deputy AG, Walker's attorney noted his
client's experience:

"It is more probable than not that a person of this experience would
know and recognize the bullet that was fired at him when he and the
Dallas police retrieved and examined the spent bullet at the time of
the attempted assassination on him.

For these reasons I feel that it is of some weight that the Select
Committee and the Department of Justice consider his opinions with
respect to the possibility of substituted evidence in the House
Committee investigation.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/W%20Disk/Walker%20Shooting/Item%2005.pdf

[David Von Pein]

CE573 looks just like a Carcano bullet. Anybody can tell that just by
glancing at a picture of CE573:

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/a/a9/Photo_naraevid_CE573-2.jpg

I've always been surprised that no firearms expert could link it to
Rifle C2766, because it sure looks like it's got plenty of undamaged
surface area to make a positive identification. But evidently not.

[Walt]

> http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/W%2...

Gil, Did the DPD take a photo of the Walker bullet in April of 1963?
I believe that is SOP in most police departments. They take a photo of
it weigh it and measure, and record a discription of the bullet.

[Gil Jesus]

On Jan 10, 12:35 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
> Gil, Did the DPD take a photo of the Walker bullet in April of 1963?
> I believe that is SOP in most police departments. They take a photo of
> it weigh it and measure, and record a discription of the bullet

No they didn't. They took pictures of the yard, the fence, the window
but not the bullet.

Amazing, isn't it ?

Not only that but there are discrepancies over who found the bullet.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18625&view=findpost&p=243395

Walker recognized CE 573 as a fraud because the bullet he saw that
night was just a hunk of lead.

[Gil Jesus]

On Jan 10, 12:30 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> CE573 looks just like a Carcano bullet. Anybody can tell that just by
> glancing at a picture of CE573:
>

No one's saying that CE 573 isn't a MC bullet. I'm suggesting that
based on the observations of General Walker, CE 573 is not the bullet
they found. It's substituted evidence. Can't any of you nuts read ?

> I've always been surprised that no firearms expert could link it to
> Rifle C2766, because it sure looks like it's got plenty of undamaged
> surface area to make a positive identification. But evidently not.

That's because you don't know anything about ballistics matching.

[David Von Pein]

>>> "No one's saying that CE 573 isn't a MC bullet." <<<

So, does this mean you think CE573 IS a bullet fired from Oswald's
Carcano? Or do you think the evil cops used a different Carcano to
create the phony Walker bullet?

BTW, who placed that fake bullet in the record?

And another question:

If Oswald didn't shoot at Walker, then why did LHO write out that note
for Marina, indicating he might be killed or taken into custody? Or is
that note a fraud too?

You see, it isn't JUST the Walker bullet that ties LHO to that
shooting. There are other things too. Weren't the cops lucky that
their patsy confessed to the shooting you say he never committed?

[Sam McClung]

"Gil Jesus" wrote in message
news:2977ba70-fcd5-4c94...@h13g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

in defense of david, he did serve with colonel sanders in the chicken
wars...

[Gil Jesus]

On Jan 10, 10:42 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

> If Oswald didn't shoot at Walker, then why did LHO write out that note
> for Marina, indicating he might be killed or taken into custody? Or is
> that note a fraud too?

Is that note dated ? Does it mention Walker ?

> You see, it isn't JUST the Walker bullet that ties LHO to that
> shooting. There are other things too. Weren't the cops lucky that
> their patsy confessed to the shooting you say he never committed?

Oswald confessed to shooting at Walker ? Funny I can't find that in
the report.

Citation ?

[Walt]

On Jan 10, 9:15 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jan 10, 12:35 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
> > Gil, Did the DPD take a photo of the Walker bullet in April of 1963?
> > I believe that is SOP in most police departments. They take a photo of
> > it weigh it and measure, and record a discription of the bullet
>
> No they didn't. They took pictures of the yard, the fence, the window
> but not the bullet.
>
> Amazing, isn't it ?
>
> Not only that but there are discrepancies over who found the bullet.
>

> http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18625&view=find...

>
> Walker recognized CE 573 as a fraud because the bullet he saw that
> night was just a hunk of lead.

Gil, I've got to tell you........ What Walker said about the bullet
may or may not be true. Surely you know that Walker was a lying
lunatic. JFK relieved him of command because he was insane. Walker's
rage at being relieved of command and his insanity led him to plot the
murder of JFK. He may or may not have been the KEY plotter, but he
definitely was one of them. Unfortunately his word isn't woth
spit..... I believe the bullet (CE 573 ) the FBI got from the DPD is
the same bullet that was recovered from Walker's house. I believe it
because it fits with all that we know about the Walker incident. The
mention of a STEEL jacketed 30.06 bullet is due to some reporter's
stupidity. The idea that the walker bullet was a STEEL jacketed
30.06 bullet is just plain silly. and here's why......

A) STEEL jacketed bullets are very rare (even in the military) they
have a specific purpose and are designed to penetrate steel. They are
nearly worthless for use as anti personnel ammunition. They will ruin
the rifling in the barrel of a rifle and therefore they are rarely
used.

B) Anybody who intended to ambush and kill a man would never choose a
STEEL jacketed bullet, because they are not very lethal. ( the bullet
would have to strike in a vital area to be lethal and even then the
victim may not be killed.)

C) The evidence shows that Lee Oswald was involved in the incident,
and it was intended that he be blamed for attempting to shoot Walker,
therefore since he had laid a trail that a blind man could follow they
wouldn't have produced a 30.06 bullet as the suspect projectile when
he had laid the trail using a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano.

[Walt]

HUH!??? What the hell are you babbling about? Lee Oswald was
already decaying and pushing up daisies when the authorities learned
that he had been involved in the shooting at Walker's house in April
of 63. They COULD have asked him about his involvment in the Walker
shooting ( and we don't know that they didn't) on the evening of
11/22/63 because "someone" ( Jack Ruby?) in the crowd called out to
Chief Jesse Curry.... "Chief, is this connected to the shooting at
general Walker back in April?". ("THIS" was referring to the murder's
of JFK and JDT )

Any thinking person would immediately ask themselves....Who was this
man who attempted to tie Oswald to the Walker incident and the
assassination of JFK? How would anybody know that Oswald was
involved in the Walker incident?? That case was unsolved and there
wasn't a hint that Oswald had been involved and yet some "reporter"
tried to tie the two crimes together.

[Walt]

On Jan 10, 9:19 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jan 10, 12:30 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > CE573 looks just like a Carcano bullet. Anybody can tell that just by
> > glancing at a picture of CE573:

Some moron wrote:...."CE573 looks just like a Carcano bullet. Anybody

can tell that just by glancing at a picture of CE573:"

Hey Moron, you're exposing your ignorance ....again. First off your
referring to a PROJECTILE.... the "bullet" is the entire cartridge.
However cutting you a little slack, this is a common error, and it is
even made by knowledgable peole who should know better. BUT for your
information there is no such thing as a Mannlicher Carcano
projectile. The projectile in a Mannlicher Carcano CARTRIDGE is a
6.5mm projectile that is identical to the 6.5 mm projectiles that is
used an dozens of other 6.5mm cartridges. There is no way that
anybody could determine if CE 573 was actually fired from a Mannlicher
Carcano.... It could have been fired from a 6.5 Swede, or a 6.5
Dutch, or any of the other 6.5mm rifles.

[Gil Jesus]

On Jan 11, 10:42 am, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:

> The mention of a STEEL jacketed 30.06 bullet is due to some reporter's stupidity.

But the bullet was also described in the Dallas Police report ( CE
2001 ) of the incident as a steel jacketed bullet.

http://i34.tinypic.com/iedp3a.jpg

So were the cops at the scene stupid too?

So let me get this straight...in order to believe what you
believe.....

The cops got it wrong.
The reporters got it wrong.
And now a witness who was there and SAW AND HANDLED the bullet
likewise got it wrong.???????

And yet you provide NO EVIDENCE that any of the above are true.

So which convinces you that Oswald did it ?

a. ) The account of Marina, who admitted to the WC that she repeatedly
lied to the FBI,
b. ) the bullet that could not be matched to the depository Carcano to
the exclusion of all other weapons, or
c. ) the testimony of Lt. Day, the only DPD officer who identified the
bullet as having come from Walker's house ?

[David Von Pein]

>>> "Oswald confessed to shooting at Walker? Funny I can't find that in the report. Citation?" <<<

He confessed to Marina.

So, unless Marina was a bald-faced liar in December 1963 (in a SS
report; CE1789), and again in February 1964 (in her WC testimony), and
again in November 2000 (in an interview with Vincent Bugliosi), then
Oswald confessed to shooting at General Walker. Period.

(Also see the addendum in my next post in this thread.)

[David Von Pein]

>>> "HUH!??? What the hell are you babbling about? Lee Oswald was already decaying and pushing up daisies when the authorities learned that he had been involved in the shooting at Walker's house in April of 63." <<<

Yes, of course.

But when I said this yesterday....

"Weren't the cops lucky that their patsy confessed to the
shooting you say he never committed?"

....I was obviously talking about the fact that Marina Oswald later
told the authorities and the WC that LHO had, in effect, "confessed"
to shooting at Walker.

In fact, the way things came to the attention of the police makes it
much LESS likely that anyone was "setting up" Oswald for ANY murders
or murder attempts in 1963.

Why?

Because the cops didn't know about Oswald's involvement in the Walker
shooting until AFTER HE WAS DEAD. The authorities had no idea that Lee
Oswald was involved in the Walker incident until many days after
11/22/63.

Therefore, if the cops were really framing Oswald for both the JFK and
Tippit murders on November 22, 23, and 24, 1963 (as many conspiracy
theorists believe), then the Dallas Police Department sure got a big
break when they found out, many days later, that the man they were in
the process of framing for the Kennedy and Tippit murders had, in
fact, really tried to kill another political figure seven months
earlier.

I think even most CTers will admit that a made-to-order patsy like
that doesn't fall into your lap every day of the week. How lucky can a
patsy-framer possibly get?!

Or, given the above-mentioned circumstances, a better question would
be:

How on Earth can anyone in their right mind truly believe that the
Dallas Police and the FBI were trying to frame Lee Oswald for the
murders of JFK and J.D. Tippit?

The conspiracy theorists love to sidestep (or just totally ignore)
Oswald's involvement in the Walker shooting. Because if they don't
ignore it or distort it, then the CTers will have to admit that the
man they think never fired a single shot at anyone on November 22,
1963, HAD MURDER RUNNING THROUGH HIS VEINS just seven months before
President Kennedy was assassinated. And that is something that
conspiracy theorists simply do not want to admit.

I think the following passage from the Warren Commission Report is
rather interesting too. This passage is referring to the evidence that
Lee Oswald left behind after he shot at General Walker in April 1963,
but it also parallels Oswald's actions and the evidence he left behind
after he shot JFK and Officer Tippit in November:


"Marina Oswald's testimony indicates that her husband was not
particularly concerned about his continued possession of the most
incriminating sort of evidence." -- Warren Report; Page 405

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0215a.htm


I also want to point out the following section of testimony from
Marina Oswald. Marina told the Warren Commission this:

"He only told me that he had shot at General Walker." -- Marina
Oswald (1 H 16)

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh1/html/WC_Vol1_0014b.htm



>>> "They [the DPD] COULD have asked him about his involvment in the Walker shooting (and we don't know that they didn't) on the evening of 11/22/63 because "someone" (Jack Ruby?) in the crowd called out to Chief Jesse Curry...."Chief, is this connected to the shooting at general Walker back in April?". ("THIS" was referring to the murder's of JFK and JDT.) Any thinking person would immediately ask themselves....Who was this man who attempted to tie Oswald to the Walker incident and the assassination of JFK? How would anybody know that Oswald was involved in the Walker incident?? That case was unsolved and there wasn't a hint that Oswald had been involved and yet some "reporter" tried to tie the two crimes together." <<<

Yes, a reporter did, indeed, ask Chief Jesse Curry if JFK's murder had
any connection to the Walker shooting. The reporter asked Curry that
question on 11/23/63, however, not on the 22nd. Curry's answer was: "I
do not know" (go to 6:47 of Part 1 below).

http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2011/12/jesse-curry-interviews.html

I, too, thought it was rather interesting when I first heard that clip
of the reporter asking about any Walker tie-in. But to suggest that
the reporter was really Jack Ruby, and that Ruby was attempting to
frame Oswald in some way by bringing up the Walker incident during a
press conference with Chief Curry, is simply more naked and unprovable
speculation on the part of CTers.

Many people in Dallas knew about the unsolved Walker shooting. So it
certainly isn't beyond imagination to think that a crackerjack
reporter might have tied the two things together as of November 23rd.
And that, in fact, is precisely what did occur -- the reporter made a
good guess and tied the Walker shooting to the JFK assassination.
Simple as that. And, furthermore, his guess on 11/23/63 was absolutely
correct.

-------------------------------

ADDENDUM:

Here are some related excerpts from Vince Bugliosi's book concerning
Lee Harvey Oswald, Marina Oswald, and the attempted murder of General
Edwin Walker:

"Since we know that Oswald attempted to murder General Walker
because he confessed to his own wife that he did, nothing further is
required to make the point. But in addition to his letter of
instructions to Marina, which has survived, and has been confirmed to
be in Oswald's handwriting, as well as the photos Oswald took of
Walker's residence, there is some other independent evidence, though
not conclusive by itself, connecting Oswald to the attempted murder of
Walker.

"The Dallas police took the slug found at the Walker residence
to the Dallas City-County Investigation Laboratory at Parkland
Hospital on April 25, 1963, to see if lab technicians could determine
the type of gun from which it was fired. Within a few days the lab
reported back that it could not do so "because of the battered
condition of the bullet."

"On November 30, 1963, the FBI, thinking there possibly could be
a connection between the Kennedy assassination and the Walker
shooting, requested the bullet from the Dallas Police Department for
examination, and the local office of the FBI sent the slug by
registered mail to the FBI lab in Washington, D.C., on December 2,
1963.

"Robert Frazier, the FBI firearms expert, testified before the
Warren Commission that because of the mutilated condition of the
Walker bullet, he was "unable to reach a conclusion" as to whether or
not the bullet was fired from Oswald's Carcano rifle, the one he
determined was the weapon that killed President Kennedy. However, he
said that "the general rifling characteristics of the rifle 139
[Commission Exhibit No. 139, Oswald's Carcano] are of the same type as
those found on the bullet, [Commission] Exhibit [No.] 573 [Walker
slug]," and therefore, at least on this basis, "the bullet could have
been fired from the rifle."

"The general rifling characteristics on the Walker bullet and
the barrel of the Carcano were "four lands and grooves" with a "right"
twist. Frazier said the Walker bullet was fired from a Mannlicher-
Carcano rifle or one with similar barrel characteristics. Frazier also
said the "remaining physical characteristics of this bullet, 573, are
the same as Western [Cartridge Company] 6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano
bullets...made for this rifle, 139.

"When Dr. Vincent Guinn made his neutron activation analysis of
the bullet for the HSCA, he determined that it was "extremely likely"
that the Walker bullet was a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet manufactured by
the Western Cartridge Company, the same as the ammunition used in the
Kennedy assassination (1 HSCA 502, HSCA testimony of Dr. Guinn on
September 8, 1978).

"The Dallas Police Department's "General Offense Report" on
April 10, 1963, its first report on the Walker shooting, described the
bullet as a "steel-jacketed bullet" (CE 2001, 24 H 39), whereas the
6.5-millimeter Mannlicher-Carcano bullets were copper-jacketed.
Frazier told the Warren Commission that "some individuals commonly
refer to rifle bullets as steel-jacketed bullets, when they actually
in fact just have a copper alloy jacket" (3 H 439).

"Although the bullet was too damaged to find the essential
"microscopic characteristics" (markings) to match up with the barrel
of Oswald's Carcano that would enable Frazier to connect the Walker
bullet to the Carcano to the exclusion of all other weapons,
importantly, Frazier said he found NO microscopic characteristics on
the bullet that would indicate it was NOT fired from the Carcano." --
Vincent Bugliosi; Pages 694-695 of "Reclaiming History"

===================

"When she [Marina Oswald] insisted on Oswald's innocence [during
a personal interview that Vincent Bugliosi had with Marina on November
30, 2000], suggesting he would never do such a murderous act, I
reminded her that he had, in fact, attempted to murder Major General
Edwin Walker, and she readily admitted he had, telling me she knew
this because "Lee told me he did." But she hastened to add that the
president was different because "Lee liked Kennedy." And Jack Duffy,
who has studied the assassination for years and leans toward the
conspiracy theory, asked Marina if she had taken "the backyard photos"
of Oswald holding the Carcano rifle. "Yes," she answered evenly, "I
did." "That settles that issue," Duffy said." -- Vincent Bugliosi;
Page 1487 of "Reclaiming History"

[timstter]

Why would anyone sensible go on the say so of Walker?

He wasn't any kind of firearms expert.

Besides which, the identifying mark of DPD Officer Norvell, the guy
who retrieved the bullet, is on CE 573.

That would be a more logical path of identification.

Informative Regards,

Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*

[Walt]

> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh1/html/WC_Vol1_001...

>
> >>> "They [the DPD] COULD have asked him about his involvment in the Walker shooting (and we don't know that they didn't) on the evening of 11/22/63 because "someone" (Jack Ruby?) in the crowd called out to Chief Jesse Curry...."Chief, is this connected to the shooting at general Walker back in April?". ("THIS" was referring to the murder's of JFK and JDT.) Any thinking person would immediately ask themselves....Who was this man who attempted to tie Oswald to the Walker incident and the assassination of JFK? How would anybody know that Oswald was involved in the Walker incident?? That case was unsolved and there wasn't a hint that Oswald had been involved and yet some "reporter" tried to tie the two crimes together." <<<
>
> Yes, a reporter did, indeed, ask Chief Jesse Curry if JFK's murder had
> any connection to the Walker shooting. The reporter asked Curry that
> question on 11/23/63, however, not on the 22nd. Curry's answer was: "I
> do not know" (go to 6:47 of Part 1 below).
>
> http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2011/12/jesse-curry-interviews.html
>
> I, too, thought it was rather interesting when I first heard that clip
> of the reporter asking about any Walker tie-in. But to suggest that
> the reporter was really Jack Ruby, and that Ruby was attempting to
> frame Oswald in some way by bringing up the Walker incident during a
> press conference with Chief Curry, is simply more naked and unprovable
> speculation on the part of CTers.
>
> Many people in Dallas knew about the unsolved Walker shooting. So it
> certainly isn't beyond imagination to think that a crackerjack
> reporter might have tied the two things together as of November 23rd.
> And that, in fact, is precisely what did occur -- the reporter made a
> good guess and tied the Walker shooting to the JFK assassination.
> Simple as that. And, furthermore, his guess on 11/23/63 was absolutely
> correct.

Guess??.... You're even dumber than I thought. When Curry didn't
take the bait ( at least publicly) and try to tie the Walker shooting
and the murder of President Kennedy together. General Walker picked
up the reins and called his Nazi buddy editor in Germany and told him
that Oswald was the commie who had taken a pot shot at him back in
April.
The FBI got wind of that story out of a German newspaper and asked
marina about her knowledge of the Walker incident.

THAT'S how the Walker shooting incident surfaced and THATS how they
learned that Oswald had been involved in the Walker shooting....AFTER
Walker called his buddy in Germany.

Walker was sweating his balls off.... He was scared to death that
Oswald was going to reveal that he and Walker and De Morhenschildt had
conspired and plotted a hoax that would have been beneficial to Walker
in his quest for publicity, and beneficial to Oswald by making him
appear to be a radical communist revolutionary who had tried to kill
one of Castro's most vocal foes. Walker wanted to nail Oswald's
coffin shut just as soon as possible.....

If you could get your head out of your ass long enough to actually
LOOK at the FBI photos of the magic bullet (CE 399) and The Walker
Bullet (CE 573) you might see that Frazier was being deceptive....
Sure both bullets were fired from a barrel with four grooves...BUT
they were NOT fired from the same barrel.CE 399 was fired from a
barrel that was in good condition and not too worn. However, CE 573
was fired from a barrel that had the lands worn. The edges of the
lands were not sharp and crisp.

[David Von Pein]

>>> "[General Edwin] Walker was sweating his balls off. He was scared to death that Oswald was going to reveal that he and Walker and De Morhenschildt [sic] had conspired and plotted a hoax that would have been beneficial to Walker in his quest for publicity, and beneficial to Oswald by making him appear to be a radical communist revolutionary who had tried to kill one of Castro's most vocal foes. Walker wanted to nail Oswald's coffin shut just as soon as possible." <<<

<chuckle>

Can it get any goofier than this, folks? I ask you.

And, yes, it's obvious that the reporter just guessed when he asked
Curry about any potential tie-in between the events of 11/22 and the
Walker shooting in April. To believe that it was anything but a guess
and speculation on the reporter's part would be to engage in the kind
of absurdly over-the-top speculation that Walt Kookbread has engaged
in above concerning a wholly unsupportable theory that has Edwin
Walker knowing Lee Oswald and participating in some silly charade in
April '63 which had Oswald only PRETENDING to want to kill Walker.

Walt's "Oswald/Walker" theory is nearly as absurd as his make-believe
"BRENNAN SAW A GUNMAN SHOOT FROM THE WEST END OF THE DEPOSITORY" hunk
of claptrap.

BTW, Walt, has ANY other CTer ever jumped on board either one of those
bandwagons of yours? Does even ONE other person on the planet think
you're right about Brennan? And does even one other human being think
you've nailed the "Oswald Pretended To Kill Walker" hogwash?

Just wondering.

[Walt]

On Jan 11, 8:16 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "[General Edwin] Walker was sweating his balls off. He was scared to death that Oswald was going to reveal that he and Walker and De Morhenschildt [sic] had conspired and plotted a hoax that would have been beneficial to Walker in his quest for publicity, and beneficial to Oswald by making him appear to be a radical communist revolutionary who had tried to kill one of Castro's most vocal foes. Walker wanted to nail Oswald's coffin shut just as soon as possible." <<<
>
> <chuckle>
>
> Can it get any goofier than this, folks? I ask you.
>
> And, yes, it's obvious that the reporter just guessed when he asked
> Curry about any potential tie-in between the events of 11/22 and the
> Walker shooting in April. To believe that it was anything but a guess
> and speculation on the reporter's part would be to engage in the kind
> of absurdly over-the-top speculation that Walt Kookbread has engaged
> in above concerning a wholly unsupportable theory that has Edwin
> Walker knowing Lee Oswald and participating in some silly charade in
> April '63 which had Oswald only PRETENDING to want to kill Walker.
>
> Walt's "Oswald/Walker" theory is nearly as absurd as his make-believe
> "BRENNAN SAW A GUNMAN SHOOT FROM THE WEST END OF THE DEPOSITORY" hunk
> of claptrap.
>
> BTW, Walt, has ANY other CTer ever jumped on board either one of those
> bandwagons of yours?

Why do you ask?.... Do you think I'm looking for others to blindly
jump on the bandwagon like a bunch of unthinking LNer's embracing the
claptrap of the Warren report? Do you think I need a army of
supporters? I know what the evidence shows, and I offer that evidence
to those whose eye are open. Tim Tebow and I are alike in this
respect. He could care less about those who ridicule his beliefs, and
I don't give a damn if some unthinking asshole like you believes me or
not..... It's as simple as that.

[David Von Pein]

>>> "Do you think I'm looking for others to blindly jump on the bandwagon...?" <<<

"Blindly"? Does that mean you think your theories aren't very worthy
of support then? Otherwise why would you use the word "blindly"
above?

Haven't you, yourself, provided enough support and documentation for
your two insane theories about Walker and Brennan to convince at least
a few other people that you are right about those theories?

>>> "Do you think I need a army of supporters?" <<<

Everybody likes to have their work acknowledged and praised. And
everybody likes to hear somebody else say "attaboy" to them every now
and then. And you're not telling the truth if you say you wouldn't
enjoy those things too.

>>> "I know what the evidence shows." <<<

And you think the "evidence" indicates that Edwin Walker, George
DeMohrenschildt, and Lee Harvey Oswald were buddies? (Or at least they
were chummy enough with each other to concoct a ruse about Oswald
pretending to want to kill the retired Major General in April of 1963,
right?)

Please point me to the "evidence" that even remotely suggests any such
thing, Walt. I'd like to see that evidence in person.

>>> "I don't give a damn if some unthinking asshole like you believes me or not." <<<

I don't believe you, Walt.

====================================

ADDENDUM:

Excerpts from the 1964 Warren Commission testimony of Major General
Edwin A. Walker (re: George DeMohrenschildt):

--------

Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any other information that you think the
Commission ought to have that we haven't already talked about?

General WALKER. Yes. I think the Commission should look into George
DeMohrenschildt, if it hasn't.

Mr. LIEBELER. What do you know about Mr. DeMohrenschildt?

General WALKER. I know that my information indicates that he lived
next door to the professor that was supposed to have burned up.

Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any information that would connect
DeMohrenschildt to the assassination of President Kennedy in any way?

General WALKER. I have the information the paper had that connected
him with the Oswalds.

Mr. LIEBELER. Yes?

General WALKER. Of course, it is common knowledge that DeMohrenschildt
was associated with Oswald now.

Mr. LIEBELER. Other than that, do you have any information to indicate
that DeMohrenschildt was involved in any way with the assassination of
President Kennedy?

General WALKER. Not directly.

General [Clyde J.] WATTS. Do you have any indirect evidence?

General WALKER. I am tired of them blaming the rightwing, and I have
had enough of this, and it is about time that the Commission cleared
the city of Dallas.

Mr. LIEBELER. Well, now, do you have any indirect indication or
evidence that would associate DeMohrenschildt with the assassination
of President Kennedy in any way?

General WALKER. I think it is very important that DeMohrenschildt knew
Oswald. I think it is very interesting. My information is that
DeMohrenschildt went to Haiti. I have nothing further to add.

Mr. LIEBELER. Now, is there anything else that you think the
Commission ought to know that we have not already mentioned here this
evening? It is now 7:15.

General WALKER. Where am I at?

Mr. LIEBELER. I didn't mean to suggest--I just wanted to let the
record show we are both working very hard.

General WALKER. I will stay here all night.

Mr. LIEBELER. If you have anything else that you think the Commission
should know or that you consider to be of material importance, I want
you to say so, General Walker, because I think that you have I hope
you realize that the Commission is trying to do the best job that it
can with the situation, and that if you can be of help to us, or if
anybody else could be of help to us, we want your help.

General WALKER. That is my approach to the problem. We certainly want
the truth. We want the truth to come out.

General WATTS. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

General WALKER. I believe it has been released to the press that, and
I am not sure that it has, but some information has gotten to me, I
can't recall how, but the bullet that was fired at me matched the gun
of the type that Oswald used on the 22d. That sounds rather vague, but
I believe that is the way the information has come.

General WATTS. This is off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. LIEBELER. General Watts has indicated that he had some ammunition
the investigators got from Mr. Duff and I request you to forward that
ammunition, to deliver it to the FBI in Oklahoma City and ask them to
forward it to the FBI laboratory, and I will contact the FBI in
Washington when I get back.

General WALKER. Don't you want to clarify that where they found that
in the apartment, wasn't it?

General WATTS. Yes. I will get the investigator and get the detailed
source of the ammunition and turn the ammunition over to the FBI in
Oklahoma City.

General WALKER. I can think of nothing else that I am not sure hasn't
already come to the Commission one way or another.

Mr. LIEBELER. Very well. I have no more questions. I want to thank you
very much for coming down and appearing before us and giving us the
testimony you have. We appreciate it.

General WALKER. Thank you very much. If I can do anything further for
you, we will be happy to.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/walker_e.htm

[Walt]

On Jan 11, 10:12 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "Do you think I'm looking for others to blindly jump on the bandwagon...?" <<<
>
> "Blindly"? Does that mean you think your theories aren't very worthy
> of support then? Otherwise why would you use the word "blindly"
> above?

DUH!.... Ya stupid bastard, What that means is I don't expect people
to blindly accept my ideas, ( like a LNer accepting the WR,) without
checking the facts.

>
> Haven't you, yourself, provided enough support and documentation for
> your two insane theories about Walker and Brennan to convince at least
> a few other people that you are right about those theories?
>
> >>> "Do you think I need a army of supporters?" <<<
>
> Everybody likes to have their work acknowledged and praised. And
> everybody likes to hear somebody else say "attaboy" to them every now
> and then. And you're not telling the truth if you say you wouldn't
> enjoy those things too.

You're judging others by yourself..... There are only two beings that
I aim to please.

>
> >>> "I know what the evidence shows." <<<
>
> And you think the "evidence" indicates that Edwin Walker, George
> DeMohrenschildt, and Lee Harvey Oswald were buddies? (Or at least they
> were chummy enough with each other to concoct a ruse about Oswald
> pretending to want to kill the retired Major General in April of 1963,
> right?)

Oswald had jotted down Walker's telephone number in his notebook.

>
> Please point me to the "evidence" that even remotely suggests any such
> thing, Walt. I'd like to see that evidence in person.
>
> >>> "I don't give a damn if some unthinking asshole like you believes me or not." <<<
>
> I don't believe you, Walt.

Oh, I'm devastated!

[Rob Caprio]

On Jan 11, 10:42 am, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:

> On Jan 10, 9:15 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 10, 12:35 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
> > > Gil, Did the DPD take a photo of the Walker bullet in April of 1963?
> > > I believe that is SOP in most police departments. They take a photo of
> > > it weigh it and measure, and record a discription of the bullet
>
> > No they didn't. They took pictures of the yard, the fence, the window
> > but not the bullet.
>
> > Amazing, isn't it ?
>
> > Not only that but there are discrepancies over who found the bullet.
>
> >http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18625&view=find...
>
> > Walker recognized CE 573 as a fraud because the bullet he saw that
> > night was just a hunk of lead.
>
> Gil, I've got to tell you........ What Walker said about the bullet
> may or may not be true. Surely you know that Walker was a lying
> lunatic.

Walt is still DEFENDING the WC I see!

> JFK relieved him of command because he was insane.

That wasn't the reason he was removed from command. Later on they put
him in a psych house after the Alabama mess. Why must you lie all the
time?

> Walker's
> rage at being relieved of command and his insanity led him to plot the
> murder of JFK. He may or may not have been the KEY plotter, but he
> definitely was one of them.

IF he was one of them, and I don't know either way for sure, wouldn't
it make more sense for him to say CE-573 was the bullet he saw on
4/10/63?

I would think so.

> Unfortunately his word isn't woth
> spit.....

I see, because he doesn't support the silly claims of the WC his word
is "woth (sic) spit", huh?

> I believe the bullet (CE 573 ) the FBI got from the DPD is
> the same bullet that was recovered from Walker's house.

Of course you do WC shill!

> I believe it
> because it fits with all that we know about the Walker incident. The
> mention of a STEEL jacketed 30.06 bullet is due to some reporter's
> stupidity. The idea that the walker bullet was a STEEL jacketed
> 30.06 bullet is just plain silly. and here's why......

As Tom Rossely has pointed out many times the term "steel jacketed" is
mentioned in NINE DPD reports! Would they do this on the basis of
some "reporter's stupidity?" I highly doubt it WC shill!

Why do you want CE-573 to be the bullet so bad?

> A) STEEL jacketed bullets are very rare (even in the military) they
> have a specific purpose and are designed to penetrate steel. They are
> nearly worthless for use as anti personnel ammunition. They will ruin
> the rifling in the barrel of a rifle and therefore they are rarely
> used.

So you know for sure the real shooter cared about his barrel then?
Don't you think Walker would have had access to military supplies?

> B) Anybody who intended to ambush and kill a man would never choose a
> STEEL jacketed bullet, because they are not very lethal. ( the bullet
> would have to strike in a vital area to be lethal and even then the
> victim may not be killed.)

My, oh my, you are working overtime on reasons to save the WC's silly
claims, aren't you?

> C) The evidence shows that Lee Oswald was involved in the incident,...

What evidence is this again WC shill?


> ...and it was intended that he be blamed for attempting to shoot Walker,

> therefore since he had laid a trail that a blind man could follow they
> wouldn't have produced a 30.06 bullet as the suspect projectile when
> he had laid the trail using a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano.

Still the WC shill, aren't you?

[Rob Caprio]

On Jan 11, 5:44 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "Oswald confessed to shooting at Walker? Funny I can't find that in the report. Citation?" <<<
>
> He confessed to Marina.

This is called SPOUSAL PRIVILEGE and would NOT have allowed in a
court! So what is your point again?

> So, unless Marina was a bald-faced liar in December 1963 (in a SS
> report; CE1789), and again in February 1964 (in her WC testimony), and
> again in November 2000 (in an interview with Vincent Bugliosi), then
> Oswald confessed to shooting at General Walker. Period.

Then simply cite the evidence that shows he did shoot at Walker and it
better NOT be some undated letter that does NOT even mention him
either!

[Rob Caprio]

Gil, I believe the term is "mistaken" NOT wrong in the LNer
vocabulary! LOL!

Everyone who doesn't agree with the silliness of the WC is
"mistaken!" They are also known to have reading problems too!

LOL!

[Rob Caprio]

On Jan 11, 8:19 pm, timstter <timst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 11, 11:19 am, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 10, 12:30 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > CE573 looks just like a Carcano bullet. Anybody can tell that just by
> > > glancing at a picture of CE573:
>
> > No one's saying that CE 573 isn't a MC bullet. I'm suggesting that
> > based on the observations of General Walker, CE 573 is not the bullet
> > they found. It's substituted evidence. Can't any of you nuts read ?
>
> > > I've always been surprised that no firearms expert could link it to
> > > Rifle C2766, because it sure looks like it's got plenty of undamaged
> > > surface area to make a positive identification. But evidently not.
>
> > That's because you don't know anything about ballistics matching.
>
> Why would anyone sensible go on the say so of Walker?
>
> He wasn't any kind of firearms expert.

This is hilarious! He was only a general in the ARMY and one would
assume he was familiar enough with bullets to at least know the
difference! Furthermore, show me when the US Army used Carcano ammo
again! I quadruple dare you!

Even IF he wasn't, are you saying he was COLOR blind too?

It wouldn't surprise me as many LNers have people unable to read
simple things and blind as a bat!

> Besides which, the identifying mark of DPD Officer Norvell, the guy
> who retrieved the bullet, is on CE 573.

Yeah, like that couldn't have been added later on. Why didn't they
call the cop who found the bullet to testify it was CE-573 again?

> That would be a more logical path of identification.

It sure would be, but they failed to call him! I wonder why?

Stumped Regards,

Robert

[Walt]

WHERE AM I??..... Walker was a babbling lunatic and you present his
testimony to support your argument?....You're as crazy as he was.

[tom...@cox.net]

You already know it was describd in he ori=ginl DPD eport as "Stel-jacketd
Bullet of unknown caliber.

SEE>> http://www.whokilledjfk.net/Walker.htm








Walt <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote:
> On Jan 10, 11:16=A0am, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Walker to FBI:
> >
> > "The bullet before your select committee called the Walker bullet is
> > not the Walker bullet. It is not the bullet that was fired at me and
> > taken out of my house by the Dallas City Police on April 10, 1963. The
> > bullet you have was not gotten from me or taken out of my house by
> > anyone at anytime."
> >
> > Walker then sends a mailogram to Blakey that the bullet recovered was
> > nothing more than a hunk of lead that didn't even resemble a bullet:
> >
> > "The bullet used and pictured on the TV by US Senate G.Robert Blakey
> > Committee on Assassinations is a ridiculous substitute for a bullet
> > completely mutilated by such obstruction, baring no resemblance to any
> > unfired bullet in shape or form.
> >
> > I saw the hunk of lead, picked up by a policeman in my house, and I
> > took it from him and I inspected it carefully. There is no mistake.
> > There has been a substitution for the bullet fired by Oswald and taken
> > out of my house."
> >
> > In a June,1979 letter to a deputy AG, Walker's attorney noted his
> > client's experience:
> >
> > "It is more probable than not that a person of this experience would
> > know and recognize the bullet that was fired at him when he and the
> > Dallas police retrieved and examined the spent bullet at the time of
> > the attempted assassination on him.
> >
> > For these reasons I feel that it is of some weight that the Select
> > Committee and the Department of Justice consider his opinions with
> > respect to the possibility of substituted evidence in the House
> > Committee investigation.
> >
> > http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/W%2..
> > .

>
> Gil, Did the DPD take a photo of the Walker bullet in April of 1963?
> I believe that is SOP in most police departments. They take a photo of

> it weigh it and measure, and record a discription of the bullet.

--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB

[David Von Pein]

>>> "Walker was a babbling lunatic and you present his testimony to support your argument? You're as crazy as he was." <<<

And since he was crazy, he MUST have therefore been pals with
DeMohrenschildt and Oswald. Right, retard?

Batshit is more sane than Walter K. Kookbread.

[Walt]

Don't get so upset.....I'm merely telling you that you're on the wrong
track. The track you're on will lead you around in circles.

[Walt]

Thank you...... Yes walker would have access to military supplies WHEN
HE WAS IN THE ARMY. Ya dumb bastard!

If you're conversant with Walker's history after JFK kicked him out of
the Army then you should know that he was working hand in glove with
Guy Bannister, David Ferrie, and the Cuban exiles in Lousiana to
overthrow Fidel Castro. In that position he would have had access to
the CIA Mannlicher Carcanos and the spare parts and the ammo.

Incidently do you think it's a mere co-incidence that JFK fired
General Edwin Walker just a few days after the Bay Of Pigs fiasco?
Walker being the Castro hater that he was, was bad mouthing JFK and
blaming him for the BOP fiasco. JFK ordered him to shut up and Walker
refused. THAT'S why the lunatic Walker got the boot.......

>
> > B) Anybody who intended to ambush and kill a man would never choose a
> > STEEL jacketed bullet, because they are not very lethal.  ( the bullet
> > would have to strike in a vital area to be lethal and even then the
> > victim may not be killed.)
>
> My, oh my, you are working overtime on reasons to save the WC's silly
> claims, aren't you?
>
> > C)  The evidence shows that Lee Oswald was involved in the incident,...
>
> What evidence is this again WC shill?
>
> > ...and it was intended that he be blamed for attempting to shoot Walker,
> > therefore since he had laid a trail that a blind man could follow they
> > wouldn't have produced a 30.06 bullet as the suspect projectile when
> > he had laid the trail using a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano.
>

> Still the WC shill, aren't you?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[tom...@cox.net]

Ole Wally-World is STILL apologizing for the Waren Commision.

SEE>> http://www.whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm






Walt <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote:
> On Jan 11, 4:14=A0pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:

> > On Jan 11, 10:42=A0am, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
> >
> > > The mention of a STEEL jacketed 30.06 bullet is due to some

> > > reporter's =

> stupidity.
> >
> > But the bullet was also described in the Dallas Police report ( CE
> > 2001 ) of the incident as a steel jacketed bullet.
> >
> > http://i34.tinypic.com/iedp3a.jpg
> >
> > So were the cops at the scene stupid too?
> >
> > So let me get this straight...in order to believe what you
> > believe.....
> >
> > The cops got it wrong.
> > The reporters got it wrong.
> > And now a witness who was there and SAW AND HANDLED the bullet
> > likewise got it wrong.???????
> >
> > And yet you provide NO EVIDENCE that any of the above are true.
> >
> > So which convinces you that Oswald did it ?
> >
> > a. ) The account of Marina, who admitted to the WC that she repeatedly
> > lied to the FBI,
> > b. ) the bullet that could not be matched to the depository Carcano to
> > the exclusion of all other weapons, or
> > c. ) the testimony of Lt. Day, the only DPD officer who identified the
> > bullet as having come from Walker's house ?
>
> Don't get so upset.....I'm merely telling you that you're on the wrong
> track. The track you're on will lead you around in circles.

[tom...@cox.net]

You Lying Bastard;

JFK Fired Walker for "Politically indroctronating his troops.




Walt <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote:

> On Jan 12, 9:38=A0am, Rob Caprio <robcap...@netscape.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 11, 10:42 am, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jan 10, 9:15 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > On Jan 10, 12:35 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > > Gil, Did the DPD take a photo of the Walker bullet in April of

> > > > > 1963=

> ?
> > > > > I believe that is SOP in most police departments. They take a

> > > > > photo=

> of
> > > > > it weigh it and measure, and record a discription of the bullet
> >
> > > > No they didn't. They took pictures of the yard, the fence, the
> > > > window but not the bullet.
> >
> > > > Amazing, isn't it ?
> >
> > > > Not only that but there are discrepancies over who found the
> > > > bullet.
> >

> > > >http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3D18625&view=3
> > > >Df=

> ind...
> >
> > > > Walker recognized CE 573 as a fraud because the bullet he saw that
> > > > night was just a hunk of lead.
> >
> > > Gil, I've got to tell you........ What Walker said about the bullet

> > > may or may not be true. =A0 Surely you know that Walker was a lying

> > > lunatic.
> >
> > Walt is still DEFENDING the WC I see!
> >
> > > JFK relieved him of command because he was insane.
> >

> > That wasn't the reason he was removed from command. =A0Later on they
> > put him in a psych house after the Alabama mess. =A0Why must you lie

> > all the time?
> >
> > > Walker's
> > > rage at being relieved of command and his insanity led him to plot

> > > the murder of JFK. =A0 He may or may not have been the KEY plotter,

> > > but he definitely was one of them.
> >
> > IF he was one of them, and I don't know either way for sure, wouldn't
> > it make more sense for him to say CE-573 was the bullet he saw on
> > 4/10/63?
> >
> > I would think so.
> >
> > > Unfortunately his word isn't woth
> > > spit.....
> >
> > I see, because he doesn't support the silly claims of the WC his word
> > is "woth (sic) spit", huh?
> >
> > > I believe the bullet (CE 573 ) the FBI got from the DPD is
> > > the same bullet that was recovered from Walker's house.
> >
> > Of course you do WC shill!
> >
> > > I believe it
> > > because it fits with all that we know about the Walker incident.

> > > =A0The mention of a STEEL jacketed 30.06 bullet is due to some
> > > reporter's stupidity. =A0The idea that the walker bullet was a STEEL
> > > jacketed 30.06 bullet is just plain silly. =A0and here's why......

> >
> > As Tom Rossely has pointed out many times the term "steel jacketed" is

> > mentioned in NINE DPD reports! =A0Would they do this on the basis of
> > some "reporter's stupidity?" =A0I highly doubt it WC shill!

> >
> > Why do you want CE-573 to be the bullet so bad?
> >
> > > A) STEEL jacketed bullets are very rare (even in the military) they
> > > have a specific purpose and are designed to penetrate steel. They are

> > > nearly worthless for use as anti personnel ammunition. =A0They will
> > > rui=

> n
> > > the rifling in the barrel of a rifle and therefore they are rarely
> > > used.
> >
> > So you know for sure the real shooter cared about his barrel then?
> > Don't you think Walker would have had access to military supplies?
>
> So you know for sure the real shooter cared about his barrel then?
> Don't you think Walker would have had access to military supplies?
>
> Thank you...... Yes walker would have access to military supplies WHEN
> HE WAS IN THE ARMY. Ya dumb bastard!
>
> If you're conversant with Walker's history after JFK kicked him out of
> the Army then you should know that he was working hand in glove with
> Guy Bannister, David Ferrie, and the Cuban exiles in Lousiana to
> overthrow Fidel Castro. In that position he would have had access to
> the CIA Mannlicher Carcanos and the spare parts and the ammo.
>
> Incidently do you think it's a mere co-incidence that JFK fired
> General Edwin Walker just a few days after the Bay Of Pigs fiasco?
> Walker being the Castro hater that he was, was bad mouthing JFK and
> blaming him for the BOP fiasco. JFK ordered him to shut up and Walker
> refused. THAT'S why the lunatic Walker got the boot.......
>
> >
> > > B) Anybody who intended to ambush and kill a man would never choose a

> > > STEEL jacketed bullet, because they are not very lethal. =A0( the
> > > bulle=

> t
> > > would have to strike in a vital area to be lethal and even then the
> > > victim may not be killed.)
> >
> > My, oh my, you are working overtime on reasons to save the WC's silly
> > claims, aren't you?
> >

> > > C) =A0The evidence shows that Lee Oswald was involved in the
> > > incident,.=

> ..
> >
> > What evidence is this again WC shill?
> >
> > > ...and it was intended that he be blamed for attempting to shoot

> > > Walker=

> ,
> > > therefore since he had laid a trail that a blind man could follow
> > > they wouldn't have produced a 30.06 bullet as the suspect projectile
> > > when he had laid the trail using a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano.
> >
> > Still the WC shill, aren't you?- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -

[Walt]

On Jan 12, 10:03 am, tom...@cox.net wrote:
> You already know it was describd in he ori=ginl DPD eport as "Stel-jacketd
> Bullet of unknown caliber.

SO WHAT??...... Simply because some careless detective used the word
"steel "in place of metal jacketed , doesn't make it a fact. I
believe Gil said the bullet was sent of to the lab to see if they
could determine what kind of rifle had fired it, and the lab reported
that the bullet was too badly mangled to identify what kind of rifle
fired it. This was on April 23 1963. Let me spell that out for
you....the BULLET WAS TOO BADLY MANGLED..... That means the bullet was
NOT a STEEL jacketed bullet, because a steel jacketed bullet would not
have been badly mangled by passing through mere wood and lath and
plaster. It's this too tough for your damaged brain to understand?




>
> SEE>>  http://www.whokilledjfk.net/Walker.htm

> Usenet Newsgroup Service                        $9.95/Month 30GB- Hide quoted text -

[Walt]

On Jan 12, 11:06 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "Walker was a babbling lunatic and you present his testimony to support your argument? You're as crazy as he was." <<<
>
> And since he was crazy, he MUST have therefore been pals with
> DeMohrenschildt and Oswald. Right, retard?

HUH?...What the hell are you babbling about now? Are you saying that
simply because Walker was a nut he couldn't have associated with De
Morhenschildt and Lee Oswald?? You're as nutty as Walker was.

[Walt]

On Jan 12, 3:54 pm, tom...@cox.net wrote:
> You Lying Bastard;
>
> JFK Fired Walker for "Politically indroctronating his troops.

Jesus H.Christ on a skateboard!....... Are you really this dumb?
Rarely is the real reason given when some high profile public figure
is fired. When some "big shot" gets fired it's usually reported as a
resignation, or the guy resigned for health or family resons. JFK
fired Walker because Walker was running his mouth about the BOP
fiasco.

> --------------------http://NewsReader.Com/--------------------
> Usenet Newsgroup Service                        $9.95/Month 30GB- Hide quoted text -

[Gil Jesus]

On Jan 11, 5:44 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "Oswald confessed to shooting at Walker? Funny I can't find that in the report. Citation?" <<<
>
> He confessed to Marina.
>

> So, unless Marina was a bald-faced liar in December 1963 (in a SS
> report; CE1789), and again in February 1964 (in her WC testimony), and
> again in November 2000 (in an interview with Vincent Bugliosi), then
> Oswald confessed to shooting at General Walker. Period.

This shows how little you know about the case. Marina lied to
everybody.

The FBI, the SS and the WC.

Read the documents and testimony.

[Gil Jesus]

On Jan 11, 5:44 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

> So, unless Marina was a bald-faced liar in December 1963 (in a SS
> report; CE1789), and again in February 1964 (in her WC testimony), and
> again in November 2000 (in an interview with Vincent Bugliosi), then
> Oswald confessed to shooting at General Walker. Period.

I've already proven that she lied to the SS in December 1963

I've already proven that she lied to the WC in February 1964

http://www.giljesus.com/jfk/marina.htm

You better find another witness

[Walt]

Let's see ...... If I understand you correctly. You don't believe
Marina should be believed because she lied about some things. I don't
dispute the fact that she lied while trying to protect her family.
She has acknowledged that she lied about some matters, and I agree
that does taint all of her statements, but I don't believe you can
catagorize her as a wanton, malicious liar. The evidence indicates
that Lee Oswald was involved in the publicity hoax that was staged at
General Walker's residence on the evening of April 10, 1963. BIG
DEAL!..... Unless you're a stupid LNer you should be able to see
through the smoke screen and see that there was no SERIOUS attempt to
kill Walker. We can know that because if the shooter had INTENDED to
kill Walker then all he needed to do was recock the rifle and fire
again and again until he was sure that he's hit Walker. IF we are to
believe the wanton liar Walker,.... He said he just sat there after
the shot and then walked over to the window and and stood there like a
target in a shooting gallery.

Gil, are you ever going to wake up and LOOK at the facts in front of
you?

[David Von Pein]

>>> "Marina lied to everybody." <<<

And you think she was still lying in November of 2000 when she said
the things she said to Vince Bugliosi and Jack Duffy?

E.G. (paraphrased),

"I took the backyard photos"; and "Lee told me he shot at Walker."

Why would she still be lying about those things 37 years later? You
can't possibly use the worn-out "deportation" excuse in the year 2000.

[lazu...@webtv.net]

As you showed Gil-Marina not only lied to the authorities and on
multiple occassions. She lied about the BY Photos, more than once, and
told 2 completely different stories about them-one to Dick Russell and
Harrison Livingstone, and one to Raymond on this board...Laz

[timstter]

> Robert- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

So Walker was a ballistics expert, was he, Rob?
,
LOL!

Say, is it true that you believe that the moon landings were faked?

Concerned Regards,

Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*

[tom...@cox.net]

Wall World is STILL apologizingfor the Warren Commision.






Walt <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote:
> On Jan 13, 5:56=A0am, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:

[Mark Ulrik]

On Jan 11, 11:14 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jan 11, 10:42 am, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
> > The mention of a STEEL jacketed 30.06 bullet is due to some reporter's stupidity.
>

> But the bullet was also described in the Dallas Police report ( CE
> 2001 ) of the incident as a steel jacketed bullet.
>
> http://i34.tinypic.com/iedp3a.jpg
>
> So were the cops at the scene stupid too?
>
> So let me get this straight...in order to believe what you
> believe.....
>
> The cops got it wrong.
> The reporters got it wrong.
> And now a witness who was there and SAW AND HANDLED the bullet
> likewise got it wrong.???????

So, according to your thinking, "hunk of lead" and "steel jacketed"
can't both be wrong?! Seems you're willing to believe any old garbage,
as long as it contradicts the official story. Come now my good man,
the disparity between those descriptions should be obvious even to
you, and I'd love to see you try to explain, step by step, exactly how
a "hunk of lead" (Walker, 1979) recovered at the crime scene would
turn into a "steel jacketed" (police report) bullet before it finally
turned into the copper jacketed CE 573. And why? To frame Oswald for
another assassination attempt, with a bullet that (as you like to
point out) couldn't be conclusively matched to his rifle?!

As Tim pointed out, CE 573 bears the identifying mark of the officer
who retrieved the bullet from Walker's house. Also, as Walt pointed
out, steel jacketed ammo would be a very unusual choice for a sniper,
and "steel jacketed" was probably just a misnomer for "metal jacketed".

[Walt]

When Marina testified before the WC back in 64 she thought the photo
(CE 133B ) was the same photo that she had taken of Lee. She had
taken CE 133A and Lee had produced several prints off the negative, so
she was familiar with THAT photo. When she saw CE 133B she was
surprised and confused, because she knew that she had taken only one
photo. In an effort to explain the existence of CE 133B she said that
perhaps she had inadvertantly snapped the shutter twice. Of course
that not a reasonable explanation because that action would have
ruined the first exposure and produced a double exousure. The
lawyers knew that but never rejected her silly explanation. They
accepted it and dropped the subject.

So the use of the PLURAL ( photos ) is open to question. Marina did
take ONE photo,(CE 133A) but who created CE133B? .....and 133c?? 133c
was in the hands of the DPD at the time of the assassination but they
withheld it from the Warren Commission ( at least that's what we're
led to believe) BUT?.... Did the WC have ce 133c at the time and
realized that they couldn't possibly have fooled Marina into thinking
that she had taken THREE photos? Is this why 133c was hidden from the
public for over ten years?

and "Lee told me he shot at Walker."

While it appears to be true that Lee did tell Marina that
he'd ....quote.. "shot AT Walker".... unquote

That statement does not necessarily mean what the Pea Brain wants us
to believe it means. First off Marina has no first hand knowledge
that what Lee told her was true. He may have been telling her just
what he wanted her to repeat to the police when they came looking for
him. Lee had created a dossier that any blind man could see was a
fake record of his plan to shoot one of Fidel Castro's most high
profile, and vocal foes, cashiered general Edwin Walker. That dossier
was left for the police to find after the staged hoax at Walker's
house. Lee wanted the newspapers to print a story about how he had
tried to kill Castro's enemy, so he told Marina that he has "shot AT
AT Walker". He knew that Marina would repeat that story to the polce
when the came looking for him.

[Walt]

On Jan 15, 8:45 pm, tom...@cox.net wrote:
> Wall World is STILL apologizingfor the Warren Commision.

Yup!..... That's what an addled brained moron would deduce. An addled
brained moron wouldn't be able to see beyond his silly bias and see
that he's making a complete fool of himself..... carry on,Tom.

> --------------------http://NewsReader.Com/--------------------
> Usenet Newsgroup Service                        $9.95/Month 30GB- Hide quoted text -

[bigdog]

On Jan 16, 10:32 am, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
> On Jan 15, 8:45 pm, tom...@cox.net wrote:
>
> > Wall World is STILL apologizingfor the Warren Commision.
>
> Yup!..... That's what an addled brained moron would deduce.  An addled
> brained moron wouldn't be able to see beyond his silly bias and see
> that he's making a complete fool of himself..... carry on,Tom.
>

You finally said something I can agree with, Waltards. You make a
complete fool of yourself on a daily basis and have no idea you are
doing so.

[Walt]

Duh!, ya dumb bastard....If that was true you wouldn't bother to argue
with me. You'd be quite content to let me make a fool of myself.
You think you have to try to discredit me because you know I'm
nibbling away at your precious bible. ( the Warren Report)

[bigdog]

Somebody has to feed you thte rope.

[Rob Caprio]

Sure, and a right wing general with ties to para-military groups would
have NO access to ammo according to Walt. And then this moron calls
me stupid! LOL!

> If you're conversant with Walker's history after JFK kicked him out of
> the Army then you should know that he was working hand in glove with
> Guy Bannister, David Ferrie, and the Cuban exiles in Lousiana to
> overthrow Fidel Castro. In that position he would have had access to
> the CIA Mannlicher Carcanos and the spare parts and the ammo.

But no other ammo? LOL! The point I made by the way, and the one you
are trying to obfuscate (don't ALL LNers do this?), is not about
access to ammo, but rather the ability to KNOW THE DIFFERENCE in ammo
types!

Are you saying a an ex-general in the Army would NOT know the
difference between steel-jacketed ammo and Carcano ammo? Please.
Your lies are getting worse by the years.

> Incidently do you think it's a mere co-incidence that JFK fired
> General Edwin Walker just a few days after the Bay Of Pigs fiasco?
> Walker being the Castro hater that he was, was bad mouthing JFK and
> blaming him for the BOP fiasco. JFK ordered him to shut up and Walker
> refused. THAT'S why the lunatic Walker got the boot.......

He was booted out for passing out his FASCIST leanings to his troops.
That is a no-no in the Army. Why can't you even be honest about this?

[Rob Caprio]

On Jan 12, 7:14 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
> On Jan 12, 10:03 am, tom...@cox.net wrote:
>
> > You already know it was describd in he ori=ginl DPD eport as "Stel-jacketd
> > Bullet of unknown caliber.
>
> SO WHAT??...... Simply because some careless detective used the word
> "steel "in place of metal jacketed , doesn't make it a fact.

You claiming a cop was color blind doesn't make it a fact either, but
here you are years later still lying for the benefit of the WC!

Can you show he was "mistaken" Walt or not?

> I
> believe Gil said the bullet was sent of to the lab to see if they
> could determine what kind of rifle had fired it, and the lab reported
> that the bullet was too badly mangled to identify what kind of rifle
> fired it. This was on April 23 1963. Let me spell that out for
> you....the BULLET WAS TOO BADLY MANGLED..... That means the bullet was
> NOT a STEEL jacketed bullet, because a steel jacketed bullet would not
> have been badly mangled by passing through mere wood and lath and
> plaster. It's this too tough for your damaged brain to understand?

And you know for sure it would NOT have hit any metal or steel in the
structure of the house on the way in, huh? Can you support this
claim?

Cue the running and hiding.

[Rob Caprio]

Now one has to be a "ballistics expert" to know the difference between
STEEL and COPPER! My goodness, these lame LNers will say anything to
get their lies across, huh?

LOL!

> LOL!
>
> Say, is it true that you believe that the moon landings were faked?

And then they do this when they have nothing else! They bring up
unrelated things to try and hide behind. I will take this as proof
Tim knows he is supporting a lie down in the badlands of Australia!

Satisfied Regards,

Robert

[Walt]

How stupid can you be?..... You asked;..." Don't you think Walker

would have had access to military supplies?

That question is about ACCESS TO AMMO..... It is NOT about Walker's
knowledge of ammo...watta LIAR!

>
> Are you saying a an ex-general in the Army would NOT know the
> difference between steel-jacketed ammo and Carcano ammo?

Again I ask....How stupid can you be?... Your question of :......

"Are you saying a an ex-general in the Army would NOT know the

difference between steel-jacketed ammo and Carcano ammo? ".....
reveals that you are totally ignorant about ammunition. The question
doesn't even make sense. A person with FUNDAMENTAL knowledge of ammo
would know enough to compare apples to apples.... For example a
person with a brain would ask... Are you saying a an ex-general in
the Army would NOT know the difference between 30.06 Springfield ammo
and Carcano ammo? Or.... Are you saying a an ex-general in the

Army would NOT know the difference between steel-jacketed ammo and

copper jacketed ammo? Only a moron would reveal his ignorance by
asking the qurstion you asked.

 Please. Your lies are getting worse by the years.

I don't doubt that you believe I'm lying...... You're too stupid to
understand.

>
> > Incidently do you think it's a mere co-incidence that JFK fired
> > General Edwin Walker just a few days after the Bay Of Pigs fiasco?
> > Walker being the Castro hater that he was, was bad mouthing JFK and
> > blaming him for the BOP fiasco.  JFK ordered him to shut up and Walker
> > refused.  THAT'S why the lunatic Walker got the boot.......
>
> He was booted out for passing out his FASCIST leanings to his troops.
> That is a no-no in the Army.  Why can't you even be honest about this?

Duh! Officially JFK cashiered him because he was indoctrinating his
soldiers in the doctrine of the John Birch Society.
The JBS is a fascist organization, so you're correct on that
point ....BUT Walker wasn't forcing any of his soldiers to attend
JBS classes, he was merely making JBS material available to them by
passing out printed material. Therefore by your own admission JFK
couldn't have cashiered him for doing that.... anymore than he could
have cashiered him for making the Christian Bible availble to them.

Anybody who is conversant with this case knows that Walker was
paranoid about Castro and the communist threat "a mere 90 miles off
our southern shores" When he talked to his fellow flag officers he
critisized and ridiculed his Commander in Chief , President Kennedy,
for being a coward and allowing the Cuban exiles to be crushed by
Fidel Castro's troops at BOP. He found out real quick that his
Commander in Chief was not a coward.... When JFK relieved him of
command.

>
>
>
> > > > B) Anybody who intended to ambush and kill a man would never choose a
> > > > STEEL jacketed bullet, because they are not very lethal.  ( the bullet
> > > > would have to strike in a vital area to be lethal and even then the
> > > > victim may not be killed.)
>
> > > My, oh my, you are working overtime on reasons to save the WC's silly
> > > claims, aren't you?
>
> > > > C)  The evidence shows that Lee Oswald was involved in the incident,...
>
> > > What evidence is this again WC shill?
>
> > > > ...and it was intended that he be blamed for attempting to shoot Walker,
> > > > therefore since he had laid a trail that a blind man could follow they
> > > > wouldn't have produced a 30.06 bullet as the suspect projectile when
> > > > he had laid the trail using a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano.
>
> > > Still the WC shill, aren't you?- Hide quoted text -
>

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Rob Caprio]

The researchers are STILL MEASURING the DEPTH of your stupidity...it
seems as deep as the Grand Canyon!

> You asked;..." Don't you think Walker
> would have had access to military supplies?
>
> That question is about ACCESS TO AMMO..... It is NOT about Walker's
> knowledge of ammo...watta LIAR!

So you think a man spent most of his adult life in the military and
yet would NOT know ammo in the least? What a LIAR you are! Who do
you think will fall for these silly claims of yours?

> > Are you saying a an ex-general in the Army would NOT know the
> > difference between steel-jacketed ammo and Carcano ammo?
>
> Again I ask....How stupid can you be?...

Again, I say, we have NOT discovered the full DEPTH of your stupidity
yet!

> Your question of :......
> "Are you saying a an ex-general in the Army would NOT know the
> difference between steel-jacketed ammo and Carcano ammo? ".....
> reveals that you are totally ignorant about ammunition. The question
> doesn't even make sense.

It makes sense con man. You are claiming an ex-general in the Army

would NOT know the difference between steel-jacketed ammo and Carcano

ammo. How dumb can you be? I don't know as your stupidity seems as
deep as the ocean!

> A person with FUNDAMENTAL knowledge of ammo
> would know enough to compare apples to apples.... For example a
> person with a brain would ask... Are you saying a an ex-general in
> the Army would NOT know the difference between 30.06 Springfield ammo
> and Carcano ammo?

That is what I was asking idiot as the media reported 30.06 ammo was
used and YOU, like the WC, insist Carcano ammo was used.

> Or.... Are you saying a an ex-general in the
> Army would NOT know the difference between steel-jacketed ammo and
> copper jacketed ammo? Only a moron would reveal his ignorance by
> asking the qurstion you asked.

All these words and the moron didn't even answer my question. How
typical of the LNer clan.

> Please. Your lies are getting worse by the years.

See? Still no answer for his ridiculous claim. Typical run of the
mill LNer here.

> I don't doubt that you believe I'm lying...... You're too stupid to
> understand.

No moron, a third grader could see you are a lying as you are a
horrible liar.

> > > Incidently do you think it's a mere co-incidence that JFK fired
> > > General Edwin Walker just a few days after the Bay Of Pigs fiasco?
> > > Walker being the Castro hater that he was, was bad mouthing JFK and
> > > blaming him for the BOP fiasco. JFK ordered him to shut up and Walker
> > > refused. THAT'S why the lunatic Walker got the boot.......
>
> > He was booted out for passing out his FASCIST leanings to his troops.
> > That is a no-no in the Army. Why can't you even be honest about this?
>
> Duh! Officially JFK cashiered him because he was indoctrinating his
> soldiers in the doctrine of the John Birch Society.

JFK did NOT kick him out, he simply put him on suspension until the
matter was investigated. Walker then RESIGNED from the Army. You
can't even tell the truth on this matter.

> The JBS is a fascist organization, so you're correct on that
> point ....BUT Walker wasn't forcing any of his soldiers to attend
> JBS classes, he was merely making JBS material available to them by
> passing out printed material. Therefore by your own admission JFK
> couldn't have cashiered him for doing that.... anymore than he could
> have cashiered him for making the Christian Bible availble to them.

JFK did NOT cashier him out moron, he resigned himself. Can't you
ever tell the truth?

> Anybody who is conversant with this case knows that Walker was
> paranoid about Castro and the communist threat "a mere 90 miles off
> our southern shores"

He was anti-Communist and anti-UN to name a few, and if you ever
bothered to learn anything you would see he had a reason to be leery
of both.

> When he talked to his fellow flag officers he
> critisized and ridiculed his Commander in Chief , President Kennedy,

This comment will incur the wrath of Allegedly "Ben Holmes", but JFK
was NOT the C-in-C since NO declared war was ever made during his
presidency or Eisenhower's. The last time we declared war was on
12/8/41!

Read the Constitution.

> for being a coward and allowing the Cuban exiles to be crushed by
> Fidel Castro's troops at BOP. He found out real quick that his
> Commander in Chief was not a coward.... When JFK relieved him of
> command.

He resigned you lying moron!