Tom Dillard Photos Prove No "Sniper's Nest" Gunfire
dcwi...@netscape.net
It seems that the Tom Dillard photos of the Texas School Book
Depository have always been with us, and that they essentially tell
the same story which the witnesses--inside & outside the depository--
have told us. But with the release of the (uncropped) James Powell
slide & Mary Moorman's Polaroid #3--in 1994--& their undercutting of
the story of the witnesses inside the building (on the 5th floor) it
seems time to take a more critical look at what the two Dillard photos
really tell us....
To recap:
The Jack Weaver Polaroid (Trask p244): Taken about a minute before
the shooting, it shows only boxes (as per the FBI [Trask p243]) in the
6th-floor "sniper's nest" window, but it also shows what appears to be
the lying-down-in-a-funny-way/sitting-sideways-on-the-sill/leaning-out-
the-window Caucasian suspect (which outside witnesses
Fischer,.Edwards, Brennan, & Walther saw) at the extreme east window
on the *5th* floor.
Powell (Trask p449): Taken right after the shooting, it shows only
Bonnie Ray Williams at the 5th-floor windows, & also that the extreme
west window on the floor is open. Undercuts that part of the Williams/
Norman/Jarman story which said that Williams led a run to the west
side, where Jarman opened that window.
Moorman #3 (Trask p233): Shows that, about 4 minutes before the
shooting, the extreme west window on the 5th floor facing Elm is
already wide open, contradicting the testimony of both Williams
(v3p177) & Jarman (v3p205), who stated that the latter opened the
window *after* the shooting.
The Dillards (Trask p442 & 448, resp.): The Leica, taken some seconds
after the last shot, shows Jarman at the 5th-floor window 4th from the
east end, & Williams at the window second from the end. The Yashica
(also Posner p316k), taken some seconds after the Leica, shows
Williams again, at the 2nd window from the end, & now Norman, at the
corner window.
The testimony of the three was that they all watched as the
Presidential limo rounded Main onto Houston, then Houston onto Elm.
Which means that they saw not only the President & Vice President, but
some 14 Secret Service agents, armed with pistols, shotguns, &
automatic rifles, in four separate cars (WR pp43-46). All fine and
good. But where Jarman stated only that he thought that the shots
"were too loud to have come from outside the building" (FBI interview
11/24/63), Williams was more specific: He "heard 2 shots which
sounded like they came from right over his head" (FBI interview
11/23/63). Norman, too, "thought the shot had been fired from the
floor directly above him." (FBI interview 11/26/63), and (for his
12/4/63 SS affidavit) elaborated, "I could hear the expended
cartridges fall to the floor. I could also hear the bolt action of
the rifle".
Williams & Norman heard shots fired from right over their heads, they
say. What, then, did they do? After the first shot, Norman told the
FBI, he "stuck his head from the window & looked upward toward the
roof...." While *Williams* told them that he "did glance up & saw no
one". Apparently, the two thought that any SS agent who happened to
be idly looking their way would see that they were themselves looking
for the source of the shooting, & would be considerate enough not to
fire at them. Apparently, again, however, this story of reckless
sticking of heads out windows--right after shots had been fired from
just above said windows--was deemed a tad absurd, & by the time of the
hearings, all sticking out of heads was forgotten, to be replaced by a
story about hurried windowside chatter re shells hitting the floor
above, & dirt falling from the ceiling above (v3 pp175 & 192). At any
rate, it was apparently thought that *something* had to be offered to
the public to explain the continued presence of the 2 witnesses at the
windows directly below the Secret Service bull's eye, as reflected in
Dillard 1 (Williams), Dillard 2 (Williams & Norman), & Powell
(Williams).
In truth, *no* explanation would have sufficed. The Dillard/Powell
photos would still have been a non sequitur: The two earwitnesses,
Williams & Norman--it stands to reason--would not willingly have made
targets of themselves, would not, so to speak, have willingly stuck
their necks out so far. Either the photos have to be rejected, or
(more likely) the changing earwitness stories--early & late--have to
be rejected. There, displayed before you, after all--in the Dillards
& the Powell--the images of the two indubitably are, in their
respective windows, for many seconds, perhaps a minute (in Williams'
case), after the shooting--and so, consequently, out must go all
witness stories....
What then would explain the fact that Williams & Norman remained at
their windows, though the two seemed to be in dire peril? After all,
several witnesses below saw a rifle at the upper east end of the
building. It could not have been brandished or fired from that area
(as Constant Readers have pointed out to me), from a *5th*-floor
window, or you'd have gotten the same non sequitur effect with the
Dillard/Powell photos. And it could not--as argued above--have been
fired from the east-corner *6th*-floor window, or our two duly alerted
earwitnesses would have quickly pulled their heads in, and not have
appeared in one two three photos, each taken several seconds apart.
However, the gun could have been simply *brandished* there, on the 6th
floor--and the non-earwitnesses on the fifth would not necessarily
have known it.
Williams & Norman were definitely in peril: At least two civilian
witnesses on the ground--Amos Euins & Patrolman Hill's 12:37 "second
window from the end" witness--had seen a rifle up there & concluded
that Williams was the shooter. If those witnesses had been SS agents,
Williams would have been shot on the spot. Perhaps, later, he
realized his parlous situation--he certainly can't have been advised
beforehand of the presence of a nearby rifle. Building supe Roy Truly
testified that the 5th-floor witnesses had been "shook up about this
thing, especially this tall one, Bonnie Williams. He is pretty
superstitious, I would say." (v3p241) If Lee Oswald was the patsy,
Williams was the sitting duck, thanks, apparently, to some last-minute
glitches (with Norman & Jarman) which left him alone, temporarily, at
the 5th-floor windows, looking for all the world like a lone
gunman....
If the Weaver photo suggests a 5th-floor *human* decoy (attracting the
attention of Fischer, Brennan et al), the Dillard/Powell non sequitur
with Williams & Norman suggests a rifle decoy--complementary attempts
to draw attention away from the real shooter, perhaps on the other
side of the building. Ironically, a "sniper's nest" rifle cannot have
actually been fired--if it had been, we would not see Williams &
Norman adorning the Dillard & Powell photos. And the human decoy
could not, of course, have been in the 6th-floor "nest", or he could
have been photographed, case closed, The End, so long sucker....
Hence, the necessity for some 5th-floor subterfuge with relative
innocents Williams, Norman, & Jarman, whose combined presence at their
windows *after* the shooting would seem to have effectively precluded
any evidence (such as the Weaver) of the decoy's apparent presence at
the Norman window *before* the shooting. Would seem to have
effectively pre-empted outside witnesses' witnessing of the decoy at a
wide-open (Brennan, Fischer, Edwards) *fifth*-floor (Fischer, Edwards,
Walther) window, altho Brennan wouldn't budge from "wide open",
Walther wouldn't budge from *fifth floor*, & the Weaver seems to fill
all bills here.
Norman was questioned as to whether he hadn't been tempted to "run
upstairs & see if anybody was up there where the shots were coming
from", & believably answered McCloy, "No, sir." "Did you feel that it
might be dangerous to go upstairs?" Norman: "Yes, sir." (v3p197) No
fool, he. But nowhere, I believe, did anyone ask Williams or Norman
if they thought that it might have been equally as "dangerous" to keep
their heads at the window after someone had just fired shots from just
above them. Or if it mightn't have been even *more* dangerous to
stick their heads *out* the window, as they originally said they did.
Instead, Norman was allowed to retract this particular idiocy:
Ball: Did you ever put your head out the window?
Norman: No, sir. I don't remember ever putting my head out the
window. (v3p196)
Norman, then, did not have to admit that he stated to the FBI that he
went out of his way to put himself in harm's way. No fool, he, in the
end.
Yet the point is the same. Norman was in harm's way. Whether
Williams & Norman stuck their heads out & looked up, or simply kept
them in the window, they were at the wrong end of a just-around-the-
bend-of-fate Secret Service Shooting Gallery. They could not retract
the fact that they were still looking out the windows 5 seconds, 10
seconds, 30 seconds after supposedly hearing a shooter in the window
right above them, because they'd been caught on film. The initial
suggestion that they craned their necks up & around to see what was
going on up there just made the ridiculousness more obvious. Too
obvious. The sticking-out business had to go....
The conspirators were so desperate to make it seem as if there were
actual shooting going on in the "sniper's nest" that they initially
had "small particles of dirt" falling on Norman--from outside the
window (11/26/63 FBI interview, or [Jarman's 11/24 FBI interview] a
"piece of debris" falling on Norman). So desperate that they
cancelled Norman's particles and--for the hearings--re-routed the
debris to Williams' head, *inside* the window (v3p175), without so
much as a by-your-leave from the corroborating Jarman. So desperate
that they had Williams testify that the debris-dislodging shots "shook
the building, the side we were on" (p175). So desperate that they had
Norman replace his debris with the sounds of "bolt action" from the
floor above and "expended cartridges [falling] to the floor...directly
above" him (SS affidavit 12/4/63). So desperate that they had
Williams & Norman posted at their windows for up to 30 seconds after
they (a) were hit by particles/debris/cement, (b) heard dropping
cartridges, (c) heard the "bolt action of the rifle", and (d) heard
their side of the building shake. And, finally, so comically
desperate that they had Williams & Norman originally say that they
stuck their heads out the window and "looked upward"--after 27 signs
of shooting from the open window directly above them!
A quiet place, the "sniper's nest", that day, at 12:30, & the Dillards
& the Powell prove it....
copr 2007 D Willis
David Von Pein
In-cred-ible.
cdddraftsman
I agree your post is pretty desperate . White people on the fifth
floor ?
Come on daffy , don't make us duck .....Quack quack ! .... :-) ..tl
PS : BTW what level of proof did you assign these apparitions to ?
50% threshold or did Rossley help you limbo in the back door with
them ? You could of saved a lot of peckering , I don't think anyone
besides the peanut gallery : http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=44g0h2d
is going to go for it ! .............Quack ! :
> Norman replace his ...
>
> read more ยป
cdddraftsman
with a new version of the same old tired stage play ! Toilet retreads
from the garbage factory , that's what I call them ! Rossley get in
here , we need you to clean up this mess and get it on your web
site asap .......................tl
On Feb 9, 10:45 pm, dcwill...@netscape.net wrote:
> Norman replace his ...
>
> read more ยป
aeffects
> What a kook.
>
> In-cred-ible.
kinda makes you weepy, don't it! Bugliosi's internet mouth piece
hereabouts and he's speechless. LMAO
dcwi...@netscape.net
> http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=2ibc50k
> I agree your post is pretty desperate . White people on the fifth
> floor ?
Look at the Weaver & the Hughes: Where's the Brennan/Fischer/Edwards/
Walther suspect? Even the FBI sez he ain't on the *6th* floor. Could
be on the 5th. You gonna put him on the *7th* floor??? He's gotta be
*someplace*....
dw
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Walt
> Tom Dillard Photos Prove No "Sniper's Nest" Gunfire
>
> It seems that the Tom Dillard photos of the Texas School Book
> Depository have always been with us, and that they essentially tell
> the same story which the witnesses--inside & outside the depository--
> have told us. But with the release of the (uncropped) James Powell
> slide & Mary Moorman's Polaroid #3--in 1994--& their undercutting of
> the story of the witnesses inside the building (on the 5th floor) it
> seems time to take a more critical look at what the two Dillard photos
> really tell us....
>
> To recap:
> The Jack Weaver Polaroid (Trask p244): Taken about a minute before
> the shooting, it shows only boxes (as per the FBI [Trask p243]) in the
> 6th-floor "sniper's nest" window, but it also shows what appears to be
> the lying-down-in-a-funny-way/sitting-sideways-on-the-sill/leaning-out-
> the-window Caucasian suspect (which outside witnesses
> Fischer,.Edwards, Brennan, & Walther saw) at the extreme east window
> on the *5th* floor.
>
> Powell (Trask p449): Taken right after the shooting,
Don...The James Powell photo was taken BEFORE the shooting. Study the
information that people inside the TSBD gave and compare that info
with the photos.
Example:.... Steve Wilson was NOT standing in the second floor window
until the time the Presidents car arrived. He said he remained seated
at his desk away from the window until the Prresident arrived on the
street beneath his window. At that point he got up from his desk and
went to stand in the window. He remained standing behind that window
because he was transfixed by the events ( shooting) that was unfolding
below his window. He said he stayed at that window for at least 15
minutes after the shooting.
If his account is accurate ( and it is verified by others in the
windows of the TSBD then he should be visible in both the Dillard
photo and the Powell Photo. He can be seen standing behind the glass
of his office window in the Dillard photo Just as he should be. But
He's nowhere in sight in the Powell Photo.... The reason he's not
visible in the Powell photo is because it was taken while he was still
seated at his desk. The shafows being cast on the face of the TSBD
verify that Powell too his photo several minutes BEFORE the motorcade
arrived.
The Reason Powell took his photo BEFORE the motorcade arrived was to
get an "incriminating" photo ( ala Backyard photo) which appeared to
show "Oswald" firing his rifle from that window.
Walt
> read more ยป...
tomnln
Here ya go>>> http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tom_lowery.htm
100% Asshole in your own words.
"cdddraftsman" <cdddra...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1171118278.9...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
dcwi...@netscape.net
the angle may just not reveal all of him. And Williams seems to be in
the exact same position from Powell to Dillard 1 to Dillard 2. And
I'm not one to accept the experts' conclusions unhesitatingly, but
Trask sez some institutes found that "by analysis of shadows these
photos [Powell & the Dillards] were taken at approx. the same time tho
Dillard's 2 were made first" (p451).
dw
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dcwi...@netscape.net
Incisive!
dcwi...@netscape.net
Who is this Bela Lugosi anyway?
David Von Pein
<large smirk>
Talk about "LMAO".
Name just ONE other person who will climb in bed with Don and his
nutty "Arce Killed JFK From The 5th Floor" bullshit??
If you believe even a PORTION of that crap, you're a bigger kook than
even I gave you credit for.
David Von Pein
DONALD: "Incisive!"
DVP: As if your loony crap deserves anything more from me (or
anybody). Get real.
Walt
as a fact for over forty years....but I'm telling you James Powell was
part of the plot to make it "APPEAR" that Oswald had fired from that
window. His job was to get a photo which showed "Oswald" firing his
rifle from that window "DURING" the assassination.
And James Powell took his photo several minutes BEFORE the motorcade
arrived.
Tom Dillard took his photo DURING DURING the shooting....These are
FACTS that can be proven with some serious research. By reading what
the occupants of the building said and comparing their statements to
the photos you'll find that Powell took his picture first, and he took
it BEFORE the motorcade arrived.
Verification can be obtained MATHEMATICALLY by STUDYING the shadows on
the face of the TSBD, The decorative cornice just below and to the
west of the sixth floor window had a 90 degree corner which cast a
definite shadow on the bricks of the TSBD below it.By examining where
the shadow falls on the bricks it's possible to determine which photo
was taken first.
It's not that difficult.... Just take a good copy of both the Dillard
photo and the Powell photo to Kinkos and enlarge the area in question
about 200% then count the number of rows of bricks down from the
cornice to see where the shadow falls in both photos. The check USGA
sun charts for Dallas for 11 /22 and you see That The Powell photo was
taken first.
Walt
> > > effectively pre-empted outside witnesses' witnessing of the decoy- Hide quoted text -
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dcwi...@netscape.net
I'll ask the same thing of you that I did of Lowry, who cannot give an
answer. Where is the sitting-sideways-on-the-sill/lying-down-in-a-
funny-way/leaning-out suspect whom Brennan, Fischer, & Walther, resp.,
described, in the Weaver & in the Hughes? Only boxes on the 6th
floor, & it's not like the guy was reclusive. He was being very
obvious. Or are you like the CTers who find faces in leaves on the
knoll? Who's real?
dw
dcwi...@netscape.net
> >>> "Kinda makes you weepy, don't it! Bugliosi's internet mouth piece hereabouts and he's speechless. LMAO." <<<
>
> <large smirk>
>
> Talk about "LMAO".
>
> Name just ONE other person who will climb in bed with Don and his
> nutty "Arce Killed JFK From The 5th Floor" bullshit??
>
(upcoming!) probably (haven't read it yet) the Vince Belalugosi
book.... However, I must admit I'm leaning more now towards the 6th
floor, for the rifles (see current post for the "nest" decoy), but
still with yes the other TSBD employee with no alibi Arce as the
shooter, west side. Because he couldn't have taken a chance that the
west end of the 4th floor was occupied & someone might hear him up
there. And also, then, Moorman & Jarman would think they were just
coming to meet Williams, on the *east* end, & there'd be no rifles
around to make them think otherwise....
dw
PS Please no jokes about "Fanny Arcehole" (c2006) Beat ya to it!
Walt
> On Feb 11, 12:54 am, "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:> >>> "Kinda makes you weepy, don't it! Bugliosi's internet mouth piece hereabouts and he's speechless. LMAO." <<<
>
> > <large smirk>
>
> > Talk about "LMAO".
>
> > Name just ONE other person who will climb in bed with Don and his
> > nutty "Arce Killed JFK From The 5th Floor" bullshit??
>
> For the finest "nutty"--"Case Closed" & "The Warren Report" &
> (upcoming!) probably (haven't read it yet) the Vince Belalugosi
> book.... However, I must admit I'm leaning more now towards the 6th
> floor, for the rifles (see current post for the "nest" decoy), but
> still with yes the other TSBD employee with no alibi Arce as the
> shooter, west side.
The trees across the street must be considered in any plausible
scenario. Any floor lower than the sixth floor is not plausible. And
any sixth floor window east of the far west end of the building is
also NOT plausible.
Because he couldn't have taken a chance that the
> west end of the 4th floor was occupied & someone might hear him up
> there. And also, then, Moorman & Jarman would think they were just
> coming to meet Williams,
Huh?? Moorman was up there...How the hell did she get up there??
on the *east* end, & there'd be no rifles
> around to make them think otherwise....
> dw
> PS Please no jokes about "Fanny Arcehole" (c2006) Beat ya to it!
>
>
Don could you describe Danny Arce's physical appearance, and how he
was dressed a few minutes after the shooting?
Walt
>
> > If you believe even a PORTION of that crap, you're a bigger kook than
> > even I gave you credit for.- Hide quoted text -
David Von Pein
Yeah, I know what you mean. Following the ACTUAL verifiable evidence
where it all leads (to LHO and his guns) is pretty "nutty", isn't it?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/909b5b194cab1cbe
>>> "However, I must admit I'm leaning more now towards the 6th floor..." <<<
LOL.
Gee, I wonder what would lead ANYBODY to think somebody was shooting
from the SIXTH floor? (Besides all those shells up there, plus the
several witnesses, plus the gun being found on that floor, plus Harold
Norman's ultra-detailed testimony....oops, I forgot, Harold's a lying
conspirator, isn't he? So sorry.)
>>> "Arce as the shooter, west side." <<<
Danny Arce's family ought to find a way to sue your stupid ass off.
Accusing Mr. Arce of murdering the President of the United States
without a single shred of evidence to support such a fucked-up notion.
That type of unsupportable allegation makes me want to vomit. You
should truly be ashamed of yourself for suggesting such a thing.
Who's next to be added to co-conspirator list -- Roy Truly? Billy
Lovelady? Bill Shelley? Elsie Dorman? Mrs. Reid?
Surely some of those people were "in" on the patsy-framing proceedings
too....weren't they? Surely.
>>> "Because he couldn't have taken a chance that the west end of the 4th floor was occupied & someone might hear him up there." <<<
But he didn't seem to care too much about pointing a gun at JFK out a
5th-Floor window...with gobs of potential witnesses in Dealey Plaza,
huh?
What makes you want to make up junk like this "Arce Did It" business
anyway? Just for the fun of it? Or maybe it's for the "unique" quality
that your crackpot theory possesses (i.e., purporting a theory that no
other CTer has ever come up with before)?
>>> "Moorman & Jarman would think they were just coming to meet Williams, on the *east* end, & there'd be no rifles around to make them think otherwise...." <<<
What the fuck is this gobbledygook you're spewing now? Mary Moorman's
a conspirator now?
(You meant Norman, I know. But that's just as stupid a theory as
Moorman being involved. So you're dead either way.)
Don....do yourself a favor and pull back from the CT Abyss for a
little while -- at least until May 29, 2007, and however long it takes
to read Vince Bugliosi's book which is coming out that day. Of course,
that will take quite a long time, even for a speed reader...but please
give it a try. Vince WILL be "reclaiming history". Wait and see.
~~~~~~~~~
"{Vincent Bugliosi is} setting the record straight forever and always.
The man takes apart every single theory ever perpetrated. He follows
the Oswald line, Ruby line, conspiracy line, every line ever even
sniffed at. Following each to its Nth degree...with every
twist...around every corner...behind every tree...down every
alley...inside every crevice. This book's like a train hurtling
through a tunnel. The final revelation? There ain't no revelation. It
was what it was. It wasn't more than it was. A nut killed the
president of the United States, and that's it, period." -- Cindy
Adams; The New York Post; 02/02/2007
www.nypost.com/seven/02022007/gossip/cindy/biggest_book_yet_on_jfks_killing_cindy_cindy_adams.htm
Walt
Don I think you know I meant that Steve Wilson was on the THIRD floor
NOT the second floor..... Your reply indicates that that you are
looking at the right window. Sorry if I caused you confusion. At
anyrate ...I wanted to point out that I too see "something" very low
in the window....That may be Wilsons head as he sat behind his desk.
There cerainly isn't anybody STANDING behind the glass pane as there
is in Dillard's photo. Steve Wilson said He got up from his desk and
went to STAND at the window when JFK's car passed by. He said he
REMAINED STANDING there at that window for at least 15 minutes
FOLLOWING the shooting. Therefore If he's not STANDING there in both
photos one of them had to have been taken BEFORE he got up from his
desk. The photo that does NOT show him there is James Powell's photo,
and the reason he isn't seen in James Powell's photo is because Powell
took his photo BEFORE the motorcade arrived.
Walt
> > > effectively pre-empted outside witnesses' witnessing of the decoy- Hide quoted text -
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dcwi...@netscape.net
dw
>
>
>
> > > If you believe even a PORTION of that crap, you're a bigger kook than
> > > even I gave you credit for.- Hide quoted text -
>
Walt
That pic on page 549 seems to be the only pic in existance of Danny
"Arce" Or Danny "Garcia"..... He does meet a couple of the features of
the gunman that witnesses saw on the sixth floor before the motorcade
arrived. Brennan described the gunman as a man in his early thirties
( between 30 and 35)... "Arce" looks to be in his early thirties, HB
said the gunman weighed about 165 t0 175 pounds... "Arce" appears to
weigh about 165 pounds, HB said the gunman had on a white
shirt..."Arce" is wearing a white shirt.... HB said the gunman had
dark hair...."Arce" has dark hair.
Do you know if there are other photos of him taken that day? I think
I remember seeing a photo of Arce and Williams being escorted to the
police car ..I'd sure like to see what color trousers he was wearing.
Walt
dcwi...@netscape.net
saw--it was like newsreel footage of the two being escorted. By the
bye--do Carcanos issue smoke when they fire? Brennan said he did not
see smoke or fire, & Euins said nothing about seeing same....
dw
Walt
Excellent question Don, Yes, Carcanos create smoke when they are
fired. I doubt that the human eye could see the fire out of the muzzle
in sunlight but there is also fire. And it's a well know fact that you
can't have fire from a carbon source without smoke. There probably
wouldn't have been a large amout of smoke but you can bet there would
have been some smoke, Furthermore the air was cool and the humidity
high at the time of the shooting. Cool humid air at the muzzle would
have been heared by the fire from the muzzle and there would have been
steam formed for an instant. The combination of smoke and steam would
certainly have been noticed by Brennan. You may have noticed that
Howard Brennan said the man was AIMING the rifle out of the window.
Which leads me to believe that perhaps the guy was simply a
decoy...who didn't fire at all. Although HB did say that he dived off
that wall just as the gunman fired his last shot.....so the question
is still open.
The problem I have with the man actually shooting into the Limo is the
angles involved appear to be wrong for a gunman firing from the WEST
end window. But that head shot that exploded JFK's head could have
came from just about anywhere.
Very few people know that there was ammo manufactured with an
exploding projectile for 6.5 Mannlicher Carcano. There also was a
frangible projectile cartridge made for the 6.5 Carcano. These rounds
are outlawed by the Geneva Convention for warfare...but the Italians
claimed they were made for civilian use in crowd control. ( whatta way
to control some protesters)
The point is; If that sniper on the sixth floor was firing exploding
ammo it would have blown a big hole in JFK's skull and it would have
been very difficult to determine the trajectory of the shot.
Walt