David Von Pein who, again? 05.05.2013

[aeffects]

quote on

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The "surgery of the head area" crap is yet another myth that Mr.
Lifton, like a child named Linus who can't bear the thought of
getting
rid of his trusty security blanket, refuses to let go of.

quote off

this folks from the chief .johnite lone nut researcher David Von
Pein... kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it just what kind of 50th
anniversary of the murder of a sitting president the current lone nut,
WCR/SBT supporting, LHO did it all by his lonesome camp is putting on
in Dallas Texas this year, eh?

Frankly, I think Von Pein's experience being involved in Bugliosi's
colossal book publishing debacle-failure (Reclaiming History) has
effected his sensibilities not to mention his grasp of reality.

Perhaps it was Dale Myers being selected as chief ghost writer for
Reclaiming History, that has Von Pein (still) all bent out of shape?

Here's your reality DavidVP-poo, Lifton will write a new book, have it
published, you'll buy it, pore over it, then be right back here
whining (to no avail) about it... all while still standing on the
sidelines... this is what 10 blogs, 15 websites. 500 uploaded
videos, ??? audio clips, 200,000 posts to various USENET boards and
forums will buy you.... You are entitled to your own high-flying
opinion (which is worthless of course) just NOT your own facts,
hon....

And the debate is all about the facts...

Carry on troll!

[David Von Pein]

Here's a FACT for Mr. Healy to chew on (and spit out) -- There was no
"surgery of the head area"....and even Jim Sibert confirms that FACT,
in this 2005 interview (9 minutes in):

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/interview-with-james-sibert.html

Try not to choke too much on all the myths that Sibert destroys in
that interview, Healy.

[aeffects]

On May 5, 2:04 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> Here's a FACT for Mr. Healy to chew on (and spit out) -- There was no
> "surgery of the head area"....and even Jim Sibert confirms that FACT,
> in this 2005 interview (9 minutes in):
>

> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/interview-with-james-sibert....

>
> Try not to choke too much on all the myths that Sibert destroys in
> that interview, Healy.

you moron, I don't care what he said in 2005, its what he said to the
Warren Commission... so, NOW you're saying after 40+ years his memory
finally solidified? Did he lie in the 60's-70's-80's-90's. Speak up
troll!

[David Von Pein]

DAVID G. HEALY SAID:

You moron, I don't care what he [Sibert] said in 2005, it's what he

said to the Warren Commission... so, NOW you're saying after 40+ years
his memory finally solidified? Did he lie in the 60's-70's-80's-90's.
Speak up troll!

DAVID R. VON PEIN SAID:

Sibert didn't testify in front of the Warren Commission, you useless
idiot. Neither did O'Neill.

That 2005 interview is the only time I've ever heard FBI agent James
W. Sibert talk about the JFK case in public (not counting his
depositions and affidavits to the HSCA and ARRB). And in that 2005
interview, he fully explains the myths that have surfaced about the
"surgery" remark, and about the so-called "missile" too.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/interview-with-james-sibert.html

But it's okay with me if you want to include the things Sibert said
"on the record" to the HSCA. Sibert said this in an HSCA affidavit on
October 24, 1978:

"When the body was first observed on the autopsy table, it was
thought by the doctors that surgery had possibly been performed in the
head area and such was reflected in my notes at the time. However,
this was determined not to be correct following a detailed
inspection." -- J.W. Sibert

There's also this from Vince Bugliosi's book:

"In a 1999 telephone conversation from his retirement home in
Fort Myers, Florida, [James] Sibert told me that when the casket was
opened in the autopsy room, "The president was wrapped in two sheets,
one around his body, another sheet around his head." He said the sheet
around the head was "soaked in blood," and when it was removed, Dr.
Humes "almost immediately upon seeing the president's head—this was
before the autopsy—remarked that the president had a tracheotomy and
surgery of the head area." When I asked Sibert what Humes was
referring to when he used the word surgery, he said, "He was referring
to the large portion of the president's skull that was missing." When
I asked him why he was so sure of this, he replied, "Well, if you were
there, it couldn't have been more clear that that's what he was
talking about. He said this as soon as he saw the president's head. He
hadn't looked close-up for any evidence of surgery to the head when he
said this. I'm positive that's what he was referring to."" -- Page
1060 of "Reclaiming History"

Why CTers continue to cling to inaccurate information is anyone's
guess--but they do it--all the time.

Sibert & O'Neill merely wrote down what Dr. Humes said at the start of
the autopsy. And that information was proven to be wrong. And even
most CTers know and think it was wrong--because there are very few
CTers who are idiotic enough to actually believe Lifton's theory about
there being "surgery" done to JFK's body before the autopsy.

Speak up, Healy. We're waiting anxiously for you to place your other
huge foot in your trap (like when you implied that Sibert had
testified in front of the WC; that was a nice foot-in-mouth moment).

[aeffects]

On May 5, 3:25 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> DAVID G. HEALY SAID:
>
> You moron, I don't care what he [Sibert] said in 2005, it's what he
> said to the Warren Commission... so, NOW you're saying after 40+ years
> his memory finally solidified? Did he lie in the 60's-70's-80's-90's.
> Speak up troll!
>
> DAVID R. VON PEIN SAID:
>
> Sibert didn't testify in front of the Warren Commission, you useless
> idiot. Neither did O'Neill.
>
> That 2005 interview is the only time I've ever heard FBI agent James
> W. Sibert talk about the JFK case in public (not counting his
> depositions and affidavits to the HSCA and ARRB). And in that 2005
> interview, he fully explains the myths that have surfaced about the
> "surgery" remark, and about the so-called "missile" too.
>

> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/interview-with-james-sibert....

implied, you plastic, phony mustache Pete dolt, you. you divert,
deflect, change course all to avoid being confronted with case
evidence, you do everything but all out lie. and that you manage to
accomplish by supporting (to the point of stupidity I might add) WCR
overt and covert lies... if you, shithead, can't change the subject-
topic or tone to your satisfaction, you must, MUST change the subject.
A clear disinfo tactic known for years. And of course THEN overwhelm
with nonsense and bullshit....

You failed Bugliosi by NOT delivering internet book sales, live with
it! Now you can't deal with a successful NYT best selling author like
Lifton. Do you have hard-on's for all successful people? Idiots like
you don't sell book, you muddy the waters (or so you think).

Regular or crispy franchise failing you too these days, Linus? What-a-
pussy you are. Real world is a little different than you envisioned,
isn't it, fool?

[Sam McClung]

when everything comes into a person's mind through a teacher/moderator at
some point the result is the charlie brown syndrome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04

[curtjester1]

It would be quite amusing to see a DVP actually coming out from his
typewriter to actually face someone of stature like a Lifton.....You
can dance around with profliling JFK issue stances, and shooting at
the hip, but eventually people will call you on your schtick!...:)

Here's one that is typical of a DVP 'go at it'. A book is written
about an important issue of 11/22/63...that of the timelines of folks
in the TSBD. Now it's contested that the WC's version of the Styles/
Adams descent to the outside was being shown that it was quite quick
and had to beat Truly and Baker's timeline of going up.

Enter DVP....doing his song and dance about how unbelievable Styles
and Adams were and goes on labelling them as a joke.

Enter reasonable folks understanding the subject,...the author who has
spent years going through archives...knocking on doors...etc.
etc...and politely states that one should read the Stroud Document.

DVP goes off on where in the WC he can find this....and finds out that
the boss of Styles and Adams is perched on the 4th floor and sees
Truly and Baker come up after Styles and Baker have already gone
down......

Enter and Oops/Epiphany moment

Enter DVP trying to save face by taking the opposite view of dissing
the Baker and Truly timeline...and trying ot make it longer!

I hate to have him read the boo and find more minutae out that makes
any floor descending in the form of an LHO much more, more
impossible.

He's a Nutter,.....chances of that happening is when he finds
snowballs in hell!...:)

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17359



CJ

[David Von Pein]

So, obviously "Curt Jester" doesn't think Jean Davison even put so
much as a dent in the Adams/Styles timeline in Jean's recent aaj posts
concerning this matter. When, in fact, Jean (as usual) totally
destroys the CT version of events. I particularly enjoyed this hunk of
Jean D. common sense:

"Unlike every other employee, Oswald just happened be near the
shooter's likely escape route shortly after the shooting? Is that bad
luck or what?" -- Jean Davison; 5/4/13

[curtjester1]

On May 5, 10:26 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> So, obviously Jester doesn't think Jean Davison even put so much as a

> luck or what?" -- Jean Davision; 5/4/13

Don't try to hide behing Jean's skirt, young man...lmao!

Like you she is hiding behind numerous issues....more traffic on the
stairs, more corroborations for an early descent by the 4th floor
girls, DPD transcripts, newly found 6th floor evidence, early first
floor sighting of Oswald, Oswald having an alibi witness on the 2nd
floor......and she still thinks Belin was an honest questioner, and
still believes in the Shelley/Lovelady meeting with the girls...

Oswald could have been taking a dump and they still would have nailed
him!...lol.

CJ

[David Von Pein]

How did the "real killer" manage to get downstairs right after the
assassination without being seen--by anyone?

Or maybe the real killer is still up on the sixth floor to this day --
hiding in the box that houses the "Dealey Cam".

[curtjester1]

Well, when you can't stay with the main issues, you can always go this
route. I'm sure if they thought it out, or even had inside help it
probably wasn't too daunting of a task. They could have had pre-
arranged hiding places...like on the 7th floor. The electrical might
have gone out just before the assassination and stayed out just after
like reported...and enabled them to go down elevator shafts. Like I
said, if you were following in the aaj thread, a shooter could have
just taken the freight elevator that was 'stuck' while B & T were down
there, and gone when they arrived upstairs (man seen bolting out the
back door and running down the street by Worrell in that time frame).
Ya know with all those fake badges, maybe they just put some on when
badge folk came up...lol. I don't have a criminal mind, but I am sure
they would have thought of something. Look at mafia Braden found in
the Dal-Tex building, as well. He didn't have such a tough time
weaving himself out of trouble.

CJ

[Jason Burke]

You live a GREAT fantasy life, retard.

'lol' the sure sign of the twelve-year-old AOL mentality.

[aeffects]

maybe the "real" killer wasn't even on the 6th floor, idiot.

[aeffects]

sitdown, for a dick-less wonder you've no room to talk, Paul May (aka
Jason Burke-Mark Ulrik)

> 'lol' the sure sign of the twelve-year-old AOL mentality.

to show how naive YOU are moron, no one, NO ONE can save David Von
Pein (major-domo .john-ite) from himself.
rotfLMFAO!

[curtjester1]

You couldn't even hold my webtv up, noQ

[curtjester1]

Don't confuse him with scenarios, he might self-assassinate!

CJ

[curtjester1]

Read em' and Weep.
http://www.manuscriptservice.com/DPQ/sports~1.htm

CJ

[David Von Pein]

>>> "maybe the "real" killer wasn't even on the 6th floor, idiot." <<<

Look, ma! A retard's on the case (again).

Looks like Healy is all too eager to just ignore the 4 witnesses who
saw a rifle sticking out of the 6th-floor window. (Gee, what a
surprise. A kook's ignoring evidence again.)

And Healy will also ignore the fact that Williams and Norman heard
shots coming from over their heads too. And yet no killer was on the
6th floor at all. (Norman & Williams must be liars too.)

And if you need still more evidence to ignore and/or twist to your
liking, I'm sure that the late Harold Weisberg and David Lifton will
be happy to supply you with a truckload.

[Bud]

Yah, I thought that was a great bit of insight wasted on the retards.
And the one witness said she saw the rush to the knoll that didn`t
occur right away, showing she didn`t leave right away. They are just
desperate to believe Oswald was a patsy so they cling to the
information that they think helps that idea, and information that puts
the idea in jeopardy is ignored.

[Jason Burke]

Let's see. You're too fucking stupid to figure out a header.
No wonder you can't figure out one of the easiest, most obvious crimes
in history, Ringo.

>> 'lol' the sure sign of the twelve-year-old AOL mentality.
>
> to show how naive YOU are moron, no one, NO ONE can save David Von
> Pein (major-domo .john-ite) from himself.
> rotfLMFAO!
>

How's those splinters doin' for ya, shithead?

(Or do I have to explain that to you also?)

[David Von Pein]

Bud,

It's also funny to note that the conspiracy theorists don't think
Oswald had a prayer of getting from the sixth floor to the second
floor in 90 seconds, and yet those same CTers don't have any problem
at all believing that the two women (Adams & Styles--wearing high
heels too, evidently) could go from the 4th floor to the 1st floor in
just 60 seconds.

And the difference in the distance travelled is just one floor (with
Oswald needing to travel down four flights--from 6 to 2--while the
girls need to go down three flights--from 4 to 1).

I guess the CTers just can't believe that Oswald could have traversed
that ONE extra flight of stairs (and hid the rifle near the stairs) in
the 30 seconds that separates LHO's time from the time the CTers like
for the girls so much (1 minute flat).

Ironic, huh?

And, yes, I know that Oswald's "90 seconds" timeline starts from the
moment the third shot was fired, whereas the girls' time starts a
little later (from the moment they left the window).

But LHO has 1.5 times as many seconds to accomplish his task as the
girls do theirs, and 30 seconds can be a lengthy cushion in this
discussion. Couldn't most people place a rifle on the floor and walk
(or run) down one flight of stairs (the difference in distance I was
talking about above) in less than half-a-minute? If not, you're really
slow. And there's no reason to think Oswald WASN'T high-tailing it
pretty good down those stairs too, in order to put as much distance
between himself and the sixth-floor crime scene (and that rifle of
his) as he could--and as fast as he could.

[Walt]

Or maybe there were no shots fired from the sixth floor.....In that
case there was no "shooter" to escape. There was a man up there who
was dressed like a security guard, and thats what Arnold Rowland,
Carolyn Arnold, and others thought he was..... But he was behind
the WEST end window and he never fired the HUNTING rifle he was aiming
out of the window. Since he was dressed like a security guard in a
khaki uniform he easily could have slipped out of the building by
pretending to be searching the building if any law enforcement officer
happened to spot him.

[Ben Holmes]

In article <081817e4-afe2-4949...@pd6g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,
aeffects says...

Well... "the debate is all about the facts" only if you're an honest person...
and most honest people accept that there was a conspiracy.

If you're a Warren Commission believer - the debate isn't about the facts at
all, it's about whoever is currently disputing the WCR.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com

[Sam McClung]

"aeffects" <aeffe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4099f4bd-5e2b-4a2c...@g5g2000pbp.googlegroups.com...

the monied that kkkontrol the world are not into what is "real"

their "evening news" is testament to that

as are their wannabees whose life consists of "trolling for dollars" T on
the internet (reminiscent of "dialing for $" in the "old daze")

[aeffects]

On May 5, 11:16 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "maybe the "real" killer wasn't even on the 6th floor, idiot." <<<
>
> Look, ma! A retard's on the case (again).
>
> Looks like Healy is all too eager to just ignore the 4 witnesses who
> saw a rifle sticking out of the 6th-floor window. (Gee, what a
> surprise. A kook's ignoring evidence again.)
>
> And Healy will also ignore the fact that Williams and Norman heard
> shots coming from over their heads too. And yet no killer was on the
> 6th floor at all. (Norman & Williams must be liars too.)

think Dal-Tex douche... you're welcome!

[curtjester1]

I think if you have someone up there, and there were more than one
according to some witnesses, they would eventually have to leave the
area, don't you think?

I don't know how or who could identify any rifle even if they thought
they saw one. This seems impossible.

Whatever they were dressed like, they might escape a close scrutiny,
but most people even though they were different companies working,
knew what other's looked like. I don't think he or they could have
just waltzed down the stairs.

Since nobody heard them making steps after the shots, and people
didn't hear any wooden steps being sounded on the upper floors when
there were at least close to the stairwell, I doubt they left in any
hurry, and had some kind of plan mustered up.

They could have had some secret hiding place in there, and escaped
during the night.
They could have had signals when to use the elevators when they were
available, as it seems strange that they weren't available just prior
to and just after the shots.
With Harold Byrd a super right-winger with lots of connections and
knowing Oswald probably since he was fifteen, could have been a major
player in the getting Oswald to work there to be a patsy, he could
have set the building up or had it set up for just about anything. I
think he took out some of the Sniper's Nest later, to make it some
sort of trophy case at his home, if not mistaken.

There was also an article written about The Man In The Dark Sports
Coat...by Weston. About 3 minutes after the shots, a man bolted out
the back of the TSBD and ran down Houston, to Commerce and got inside
the same Rambler that Oswald did at 12:40. There was at least one
witness who saw a man in a sports coat...and I think it was Carolyn
Walther..who had a rifle. He could have quietly left after Truly and
Baker went up to the roof, took the elevator to the basement or first
floor, and just vamoosed. Or he could have left before Truly and
Baker came up, as one of the stuck elevators was gone as they were
coming up the stairs.

CJ

[David Von Pein]

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/a77fc84c509e2240/c8715b8ddfe0f13e?#c8715b8ddfe0f13e

WALT CAKEBREAD SAID:

It would have taken several minutes to place the rifle in position and
then cover it with paper and boxes of books.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Absolute nonsense. You make it sound like he was constructing the
Pyramids.

FWIW, it's my own opinion (based on LHO's clipboard being found very
near this same area of the stairs and rifle) that Oswald likely pre-
arranged his rifle-stashing area near the stairwell in advance of
12:30 PM.

But even if he didn't pre-arrange it, Walt's theory is just more of
the same over-the-top dreck that Walt always utilizes in order to keep
from having to admit what the evidence so plainly shows--and that is:

Walt's favorite "patsy" was, in truth, the assassin of President
Kennedy -- and Oswald himself hid his own rifle in those boxes before
fleeing down the nearby stairway.

Simple and Occam-like. But Walt likes the "Pyramids" approach better.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/reconstructing-steps-of-assassin.html

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/oswald-timeline-part-1.html

[Ben Holmes]

In article <76d52e81-cb00-4b72...@n5g2000pbg.googlegroups.com>,
aeffects says...

>
>On May 5, 11:16=A0pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>> "maybe the "real" killer wasn't even on the 6th floor, idiot." <<<
>>
>> Look, ma! A retard's on the case (again).
>>
>> Looks like Healy is all too eager to just ignore the 4 witnesses who
>> saw a rifle sticking out of the 6th-floor window. (Gee, what a
>> surprise. A kook's ignoring evidence again.)
>>
>> And Healy will also ignore the fact that Williams and Norman heard
>> shots coming from over their heads too. And yet no killer was on the
>> 6th floor at all. (Norman & Williams must be liars too.)

Actions speak louder than words... what did they *DO* when they heard shots?

>think Dal-Tex douche... you're welcome!
>
>> And if you need still more evidence to ignore and/or twist to your
>> liking, I'm sure that the late Harold Weisberg and David Lifton will
>> be happy to supply you with a truckload.
>

[curtjester1]

> On May 6, 11:31 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > It's also funny to note that the conspiracy theorists don't think
> > Oswald had a prayer of getting from the sixth floor to the second
> > floor in 90 seconds, and yet those same CTers don't have any problem
>

> It's so funny that DVP can't say anything issue or evidentiary-wise
> without mentioning Oswald. He can't say, suspects, or shooters....it
> just has to be him.

>
> > at all believing that the two women (Adams & Styles--wearing high
> > heels too, evidently) could go from the 4th floor to the 1st floor in
> > just 60 seconds.
>

> But they weren't potential shooters. A shooter has to wipe down a gun,
> get out from boxes, go to another set of boxes and carefully hide a
> weapon, re-trace his steps, then proceed to the opposite corner of the
> building where shots are said to have come from. Then he has to go down
> two more flights of stairs without being noticed, noise-wise. In fact,
> it's ironic that the fellows below the sixth floor said they heard nothing
> like footsteps after the shooting, and many in the stairwell area after
> the shots heard none either. Perhaps, DVD in his desperation here, is
> trying to make his Oz superhuman and get where people are going to? And
> let's not forget all these moving boxes after the shooting. Who is DVD
> going to be the ones moving them, besides his shooters?

>
> > And the difference in the distance travelled is just one floor (with
> > Oswald needing to travel down four flights--from 6 to 2--while the
> > girls need to go down three flights--from 4 to 1).
>

> Well, again if Oswald is on the sixth floor. Some have him on the first
> and second at this time, but getting back to DVD's 'must scenario', let's
> say Oswald was able to finish his upstairs 'must's' in 35-45 seconds. He
> is ready to go down 4 flights of stairs w/o being heard. That's already
> unlikely, but something that desperate LNT's must 'smooth-over'. He's
> going downhill, so lets give him the benefit of the doubt and give him 10
> seconds a flight of two for each floor. That's 40 seconds and 40
> seconds..say..so that's 80 seconds..and goes through the 2nd floor door,
> which has a 3-5 second close time, and proceeds to the lunchroom
> areas....ok another 10 seconds....I'm at 90 seconds...about re-enactment
> time. S & A have to have been past them, as we know what they had to do
> to get to the stairway and when they took off. No possible way that even
> a super human Oswald could beat them much less have gone past them without
> being heard. It's already assumed that S & A have left their spot (it
> would be interesting to see if any cameras were on the fifth window from
> the end where Adams was perched to see when she no longer would be at the
> window). We know the Z film is 18 frames per second, so from the final
> shots to the Triple Underpass is ten seconds being on the safe side.
> They say they watch til the it gets there and they leave. Five seconds to
> say let's leave, and they have to get around one table to get out of the
> office, so say another 10 seconds...which gets them to the
> storage/elevator/stairway path. 10 seconds to reach an elevator and press
> a button. 5 seconds for no response, and at the beginning of the
> stairwell. We're up to 40 seconds. (Whoever would be on the sixth floor
> would technically but my counts still be there). They have to go down 3
> flights, which Adams says they are running even in heels, so 10 seconds
> per flight...total 3 flights, total 1:10 Another 15 seconds to get out to
> the dock area...where agent Barrett seems them come out the door, and what
> time he would be there, before he would leave to go to the front of the
> TSBD.

>
> > I guess the CTers just can't believe that Oswald could have traversed
> > that ONE extra flight of stairs (and hid the rifle near the stairs) in
> > the 30 seconds that separates LHO's time from the time the CTers like
> > for the girls so much (1 minute flat).
>
> > Ironic, huh?
>

> Not really, and if you read the book, there is more than tossing a rifle,
> boxes had to be lifted and it had to be placed. Of course, let me
> interject, how stupid it would be to go through all that, and leave the
> hulls out in the open where he could have hid them easily. The Girl On The
> Stairs also discovers something more than putting the rifle in some boxes,
> and this something will take even much more time.....oh the irony of it
> all!

>
> > And, yes, I know that Oswald's "90 seconds" timeline starts from the
> > moment the third shot was fired, whereas the girls' time starts a
> > little later (from the moment they left the window).
>
> > But LHO has 1.5 times as many seconds to accomplish his task as the
> > girls do theirs, and 30 seconds can be a lengthy cushion in this
> > discussion. Couldn't most people place a rifle on the floor and walk
> > (or run) down one flight of stairs (the difference in distance I was
> > talking about above) in less than half-a-minute? If not, you're really
> > slow. And there's no reason to think Oswald WASN'T high-tailing it
> > pretty good down those stairs too, in order to put as much distance
> > between himself and the sixth-floor crime scene (and that rifle of
> > his) as he could--and as fast as he could.
>

> But this is moot, as DVD knows now. He was confronted at EF, and was told
> about a document that has S & A's boss seeing Truly and Baker come up
> after the girls went down the stairs. So, an Oswald has to be in back of
> them, as they are outside faster than the WC has foisted their contrived
> scenario upon the American Public and to be unseen by Truly and Baker must
> have made them slower than what was alluded to as they were headed for the
> same stairwell going up as S & A went down. But a descending shooter would
> still have a problem being behind Styles and Adams. They would have to be
> not seen and not heard. How is one going to go down 4 flights of stairs
> and not be heard or seen when S & A's boss, Dorothy Garner is still out in
> the area of the 4th floor storage/elevator/stairwell when we know she sees
> Truly and Baker coming up the stairs (and still beat T and B there)? DVD
> better stick to logisitics than speed at this point, IMO. Logistics have
> LHO down the stairs and coming up to the second floor, and if the 2nd
> floor encounter with Bake is true, coming in the only area that Baker
> could see LHO through a window that would have Oswald coming in a
> vestibule that Baker could catch an eye of Oswald, where as he couldn't if
> he had gone through the door and walked in a straight line towards the
> lunchroom.
>
> CJ

[David Von Pein]

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/a77fc84c509e2240/efee1f11343a3e4f?#efee1f11343a3e4f

Hilarious, Walt.

Walt is preaching to the choir named "Curt Jester" and is scolding
Curt for saying it was dumb for a true LONE ASSASSIN to have left the
shells out in the open, while taking the time to hide the rifle from
view. Walt seems to think Curt has flipped sides.

Of course, in the final analysis (if there ever is such a thing in
this morass known as "JFK Debate"), we can know--based on the WHOLE of
the evidence--that Lee Oswald DID do those two seemingly contradictory
things -- he left the shells but hid the rifle. As stupid as that
might have been, he did it anyway.

And he did more "shell leaving" over on Tenth Street. And there can be
NO reasonable doubt that in the instance on Tenth Street, Oswald not
only left valuable incriminating evidence behind on the ground--but he
DELIBERATELY DID SO by dumping the shells out of his gun, even though
he certainly did not have to do any such thing. And then Oswald KEEPS
THAT GUN IN HIS POSSESSION after dumping those bullet shells.

Stupid, you say? Yeah, it would sure seem so.

But, on the other side of this coin, where can CTers possibly go with
the theory that he DIDN'T do any such shell-dropping on Tenth Street
-- especially in light of the multiple witnesses who saw Oswald--and
nobody else--dumping those shells on the ground? So, stupid or not,
Oswald did it.

So when we compare those two instances of Oswald leaving behind very
powerful evidence of his guilt in TWO different murders -- I can
actually see a PATTERN of behavior, even though that pattern is a
rather strange one. But he did those things nonetheless.

One could almost theorize (and I actually have postulated this theory
in the past) that Oswald was TRYING to get caught. Possibly so he
could play the role of innocent "patsy" and/or "martyr" in the
President's murder. Via such a mindset, Oswald certainly gained the
fame that he seemed to crave -- regardless of the fact he denied his
guilt until his own death.

In hindsight, it's very likely that by DENYING guilt, Lee Harvey
Oswald gained even more fame and has had even more attention focused
on him in the last 50 years than he would have achieved had he just
simply told Captain Fritz: "You got me. I did it."

[Bud]

On May 6, 7:01 pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
> In article <76d52e81-cb00-4b72-94f6-7b72572bb...@n5g2000pbg.googlegroups.com>,

> aeffects says...
>
>
>
> >On May 5, 11:16=A0pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >>> "maybe the "real" killer wasn't even on the 6th floor, idiot." <<<
>
> >> Look, ma! A retard's on the case (again).
>
> >> Looks like Healy is all too eager to just ignore the 4 witnesses who
> >> saw a rifle sticking out of the 6th-floor window. (Gee, what a
> >> surprise. A kook's ignoring evidence again.)
>
> >> And Healy will also ignore the fact that Williams and Norman heard
> >> shots coming from over their heads too. And yet no killer was on the
> >> 6th floor at all. (Norman & Williams must be liars too.)
>
> Actions speak louder than words... what did they *DO* when they heard shots?

They looked up. There is a photo of this, learn the evidence.

[Bud]

On May 7, 3:43 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/th...

>
> Hilarious, Walt.
>
> Walt is preaching to the choir named "Curt Jester" and is scolding
> Curt for saying it was dumb for a true LONE ASSASSIN to have left the
> shells out in the open, while taking the time to hide the rifle from
> view. Walt seems to think Curt has flipped sides.
>
> Of course, in the final analysis (if there ever is such a thing in
> this morass known as "JFK Debate"), we can know--based on the WHOLE of
> the evidence--that Lee Oswald DID do those two seemingly contradictory
> things -- he left the shells but hid the rifle. As stupid as that
> might have been, he did it anyway.

Not really stupid. The shells could not be traced to him personally.
The rifle could. The sooner the rifle was found the sooner the noose
around his neck was drawn tight. I think he had the idea that if he
wasn`t caught on the spot (the most likely possibility) he would take
another crack at Walker.

[curtjester1]

Bud always gives credence to Dryden, that being mad is only a pleasure
that madmen may know! First of all why would shooters go out that
way? Oh, so you can find a reason to attach an Oswald to it. Wow,
what great ephiphany type thinking! Second, they left when the limo
was by the Triple Underpass...never mind that people from the shots on
the other side of the street were already moving in throngs that way.
Nevermind that Adams says they inserted things at will in her
testimony she never said, and that's what a book is all about. Oh, I
forgot, madmen, don't read. And to make matters worse with all this
finagling of Adams and Styles to make their Oz float down stairs at
whim, there is an agent who meets them when they come out of the
Houston Street dock area in back of the TSBD. When was he there? The
first minute after the assassination. Nevermind the evidence to a
madman LNT'er, all they want to do is think their one-liners have
special ha-ha meanings, when they can't even understand what they
say! Funny how those madmen are, eh? Oh, and if you would read a
testimony, they decided when getting out of the building to follow the
people that were heading in the direction you speak of....well until
they were halted by their timekeeper.

CJ

[Bud]

[Bud]

On May 7, 10:19 am, curtjester1 <curtjest...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On May 6, 5:38 am, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 5, 10:28 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > So, obviously "Curt Jester" doesn't think Jean Davison even put so
> > > much as a dent in the Adams/Styles timeline in Jean's recent aaj posts
> > > concerning this matter. When, in fact, Jean (as usual) totally
> > > destroys the CT version of events. I particularly enjoyed this hunk of
> > > Jean D. common sense:
>
> > >       "Unlike every other employee, Oswald just happened be near the
> > > shooter's likely escape route shortly after the shooting? Is that bad
> > > luck or what?" -- Jean Davison; 5/4/13
>
> >  Yah, I thought that was a great bit of insight wasted on the retards.
> > And the one witness said she saw the rush to the knoll that didn`t
> > occur right away, showing she didn`t leave right away. They are just
> > desperate to believe Oswald was a patsy so they cling to the
> > information that they think helps that idea, and information that puts
> > the idea in jeopardy is ignored.
>
> Bud always gives credence to Dryden, that being mad is only a pleasure
> that madmen may know!  First of all why would shooters go out that
> way?

If not for Baker Oswald would have been clear of building without
being stopped at all.

>  Oh, so you can find a reason to attach an Oswald to it.

He was attached to it, by his killing Kennedy and choosing to flee
that way.

>  Wow,
> what great ephiphany type thinking!  Second, they left when the limo
> was by the Triple Underpass...

But at least one of them said they watched the people going up the
knoll, and that did not occur immediately. Didn`t you even read what
Jean took the time to explain to you, or are you just trying to prove
me right about how you just disregard any information that goes
against your retarded ideas?

>never mind that people from the shots on
> the other side of the street were already moving in throngs that way.

Not according to this site, and it`s the kind of crackpot one you
favor...

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/knoll.htm

> Nevermind that Adams says they inserted things at will in her
> testimony she never said,

Did she claim that she never said she watched the people go up the
knoll?

> and that's what a book is all about.  Oh, I
> forgot, madmen, don't read.

Not stupid books like this, I knew what it was. Mush represented as
something substantial. Sure to impress retards like yourself who are
hungry for justifications for their retard ideas.

> And to make matters worse with all this
> finagling of  Adams and Styles to make their Oz float down stairs at
> whim, there is an agent who meets them when they come out of the
> Houston Street dock area in back of the TSBD.  When was he there?  The
> first minute after the assassination.  Nevermind the evidence to a
> madman LNT'er, all they want to do is think their one-liners have
> special ha-ha meanings, when they can't even understand what they
> say!  Funny how those madmen are, eh?  Oh, and if you would read a
> testimony, they decided when getting out of the building to follow the
> people that were heading in the direction you speak of....well until
> they were halted by their timekeeper.

The only thing you are showing is how desperate you are to believe
stupid things. Free country and all that, buy these books if they make
you feel warm and fuzzy. Doesn`t mean anything, just a stupid hobby.


> CJ

[curtjester1]

On May 7, 1:32 pm, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
> On May 7, 10:19 am, curtjester1 <curtjest...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 6, 5:38 am, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>
> > > On May 5, 10:28 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > So, obviously "Curt Jester" doesn't think Jean Davison even put so
> > > > much as a dent in the Adams/Styles timeline in Jean's recent aaj posts
> > > > concerning this matter. When, in fact, Jean (as usual) totally
> > > > destroys the CT version of events. I particularly enjoyed this hunk of
> > > > Jean D. common sense:
>
> > > >       "Unlike every other employee, Oswald just happened be near the
> > > > shooter's likely escape route shortly after the shooting? Is that bad
> > > > luck or what?" -- Jean Davison; 5/4/13
>
> > >  Yah, I thought that was a great bit of insight wasted on the retards.
> > > And the one witness said she saw the rush to the knoll that didn`t
> > > occur right away, showing she didn`t leave right away. They are just
> > > desperate to believe Oswald was a patsy so they cling to the
> > > information that they think helps that idea, and information that puts
> > > the idea in jeopardy is ignored.
>
> > Bud always gives credence to Dryden, that being mad is only a pleasure
> > that madmen may know!  First of all why would shooters go out that
> > way?
>
>  If not for Baker Oswald would have been clear of building without
> being stopped at all.
>

He could have left before Baker got in the building if he wanted to.
O. Campbell, R. Truly, J. Jarman, speak of seeing Oswald on the first
floor. So many liars had to get their stories straight by time their
testimonies for the WC came up so they could readjust what they said
before.

> >  Oh, so you can find a reason to attach an Oswald to it.
>
>   He was attached to it, by his killing Kennedy and choosing to flee
> that way.
>

That's retarded. Impossible to be up there and get down without
getting past Styles, Adams, and Garner. Can't even see through how
they had to make up the rifle order with no pick up evidence, no
banking stamps evidence, and no legal paperwork evidence for mail
fireams...on and on. Evidentiary research is always thrown out when
one can offer up one-liners as their evidence.

> >  Wow,
> > what great ephiphany type thinking!  Second, they left when the limo
> > was by the Triple Underpass...
>
>   But at least one of them said they watched the people going up the
> knoll, and that did not occur immediately. Didn`t you even read what
> Jean took the time to explain to you, or are you just trying to prove
> me right about how you just disregard any information that goes
> against your retarded ideas?
>

Even if they said, it which wasn't true, they would have seen a horde
of people heading that way...that were on the south side Elm. You can
see that immediately in films, and the girls would be looking at the
whole Plaza...anyway. It's all moot when they beat Baker and Truly
anyway to get outside.

> >never mind that people from the shots on
> > the other side of the street were already moving in throngs that way.
>
>   Not according to this site, and it`s the kind of crackpot one you
> favor...
>
>  http://jfkmurdersolved.com/knoll.htm
>

You can't go to a site you don't believe in and use their stuff.
That's treason.

> > Nevermind that Adams says they inserted things at will in her
> > testimony she never said,
>
>   Did she claim that she never said she watched the people go up the
> knoll?
>

Why should she bring it up when it never happened? Do you always have
an opinion on something and have to have some person saying it to back
it up?

> > and that's what a book is all about.  Oh, I
> > forgot, madmen, don't read.
>
>   Not stupid books like this, I knew what it was. Mush represented as
> something substantial. Sure to impress retards like yourself who are
> hungry for justifications for their retard ideas.
>

What do you mean? Did you even read it? No. For one thing, people
on safer ground were able to say what they were being drawn into,
harrassments and not just the changing of their testimony, but the
addition of material that would sway the investigation which was
designed soley to uphold the lone gunman 'official story'. Of course
good research would have had this hammered out anyway, and prove the
Shelley/Lovelady event that never happened surrounding the girls.

> > And to make matters worse with all this
> > finagling of  Adams and Styles to make their Oz float down stairs at
> > whim, there is an agent who meets them when they come out of the
> > Houston Street dock area in back of the TSBD.  When was he there?  The
> > first minute after the assassination.  Nevermind the evidence to a
> > madman LNT'er, all they want to do is think their one-liners have
> > special ha-ha meanings, when they can't even understand what they
> > say!  Funny how those madmen are, eh?  Oh, and if you would read a
> > testimony, they decided when getting out of the building to follow the
> > people that were heading in the direction you speak of....well until
> > they were halted by their timekeeper.
>
>   The only thing you are showing is how desperate you are to believe
> stupid things. Free country and all that, buy these books if they make
> you feel warm and fuzzy. Doesn`t mean anything, just a stupid hobby.
>
>

And you only believe the people that were called in by the WC, and
their 'thin' witness list. Keep that ol' anthem mantra going Bud,
it's all you have to make yourself attempt to feel good, while the
real investigation continues.

CJ

>
> > CJ

[Bud]

If he jumped out the 6th floor window. You`d swear he was pushed,
though.

> O. Campbell, R. Truly, J. Jarman, speak of seeing Oswald on the first
> floor.

I suppose it would be a waste of time to ask you to quote them.

> So many liars had to get their stories straight by time their
> testimonies for the WC came up so they could readjust what they said
> before.

Right, either everyone was out to get Oswald or he was just guilty.
But Oswald told you he was a patsy, and even though that is a stupid
idea it is one you`ve decided to believe. Buy every book that comes
out that tells you what you want to hear, it`s only a stupid hobby.
Retards like to think they are hot on the trail of the truth when they
are only self-deluded idiots.

> > >  Oh, so you can find a reason to attach an Oswald to it.
>
> >   He was attached to it, by his killing Kennedy and choosing to flee
> > that way.
>
> That's retarded.  Impossible to be up there and get down without
> getting past  Styles, Adams, and Garner.

Thats what retards have decided to believe. And they just disregard
the evidence that goes against that idea.

>  Can't even see through how
> they had to make up the rifle order with no pick up evidence,

The photo of Oswald holding the rifle is evidence he picked it up,
stupid.

> no
> banking stamps evidence, and no legal paperwork evidence for mail
> fireams...

Have you retards shown that Kleins did this with any of the rifles
they shipped? Before you can claim this is unusual you have to
establish the norm.

>on and on.  Evidentiary research is always thrown out when
> one can offer up one-liners as their evidence.
>
> > >  Wow,
> > > what great ephiphany type thinking!  Second, they left when the limo
> > > was by the Triple Underpass...
>
> >   But at least one of them said they watched the people going up the
> > knoll, and that did not occur immediately. Didn`t you even read what
> > Jean took the time to explain to you, or are you just trying to prove
> > me right about how you just disregard any information that goes
> > against your retarded ideas?
>
> Even if they said, it which wasn't true, they would have seen a horde
> of people heading that way..

What I linked to showed they didn`t. Conspiracy darling Jean Hill
was one of the mob, you can see how long it took her just to get off
the ground.

>.that were on the south side Elm.  You can
> see that immediately in films, and the girls would be looking at the
> whole Plaza...anyway.  It's all moot when they beat Baker and Truly
> anyway to get outside.

Yah, they were track stars. Rest, retard.

> > >never mind that people from the shots on
> > > the other side of the street were already moving in throngs that way.
>
> >   Not according to this site, and it`s the kind of crackpot one you
> > favor...
>
> >  http://jfkmurdersolved.com/knoll.htm
>
> You can't go to a site you don't believe in and use their stuff.
> That's treason.

The reatrds don`t own the evidence, they only misunderstand it. I
notice you are running from the photos that show there was no
immediate rush to the knoll, why is that?

> > > Nevermind that Adams says they inserted things at will in her
> > > testimony she never said,
>
> >   Did she claim that she never said she watched the people go up the
> > knoll?
>
> Why should she bring it up when it never happened?

Why do you say she never said it? Because it is inconvenient to your
silly ideas?

> Do you always have
> an opinion on something and have to have some person saying it to back
> it up?
>
> > > and that's what a book is all about.  Oh, I
> > > forgot, madmen, don't read.
>
> >   Not stupid books like this, I knew what it was. Mush represented as
> > something substantial. Sure to impress retards like yourself who are
> > hungry for justifications for their retard ideas.
>
> What do you mean?  Did you even read it?  No.

I`ve seen the idea presented in various forms here in this
newsgroup. Pure desperation. Good marketing to know there was a bunch
of retards hungry for such a book, though.

> For one thing, people
> on safer ground were able to say what they were being drawn into,
> harrassments and not just the changing of their testimony, but the
> addition of material that would sway the investigation which was
> designed soley to uphold the lone gunman 'official story'.  Of course
> good research would have had this hammered out anyway, and prove the
> Shelley/Lovelady event that never happened surrounding the girls.

Retards always look for reasons to disregard evidence that goes
against their silly ideas. All part of the hobby, constructing outs
for obviously guilty party.

> > > And to make matters worse with all this
> > > finagling of  Adams and Styles to make their Oz float down stairs at
> > > whim, there is an agent who meets them when they come out of the
> > > Houston Street dock area in back of the TSBD.  When was he there?  The
> > > first minute after the assassination.  Nevermind the evidence to a
> > > madman LNT'er, all they want to do is think their one-liners have
> > > special ha-ha meanings, when they can't even understand what they
> > > say!  Funny how those madmen are, eh?  Oh, and if you would read a
> > > testimony, they decided when getting out of the building to follow the
> > > people that were heading in the direction you speak of....well until
> > > they were halted by their timekeeper.
>
> >   The only thing you are showing is how desperate you are to believe
> > stupid things. Free country and all that, buy these books if they make
> > you feel warm and fuzzy. Doesn`t mean anything, just a stupid hobby.
>
> And you only believe the people that were called in by the WC, and
> their 'thin' witness list.

50 years of you guys crying about the WC. They couldn`t invent the
only answer that would satisfy you retards, they were constrained by
reality.

> Keep that ol' anthem mantra going Bud,
> it's all you have to make yourself attempt to feel good, while the
> real investigation continues.

Just a stupid hobby, nothing more.

> CJ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > CJ

[David Von Pein]

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/9ad64ccdec69d33a

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Curt Jester, in his post linked above, is assigning ludicrous levels
of assumed perfection to things that can never be pinned down that
accurately.

All of these "timelines" revolving around Vickie Adams, Sandra Styles,
Bill Shelley, Marrion Baker, and also Lee Harvey Oswald can only be
estimated to a certain degree, and can never be micro-analyzed right
down to the second....and everybody knows it (even "Curt Jester").

If Vickie Adams' timeline is off just a TINY little bit--then Oswald
can make it. That's all it takes. And yet a whole book has been
written by Barry Ernest that focuses chiefly on a theory that is
completely destroyed if Miss Adams is just SLIGHTLY off in her time
estimate.

And yet, even though most readers SHOULD realize that Ernest's whole
book is based on a TIME ESTIMATE given by a witness, Ernest's book
has, amazingly, received glowing reviews from the Amazon readers,
averaging 4.4 stars (out of 5 maximum) at Amazon.com (through this
writing on May 7, 2013):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1460979370?ie=UTF8&tag=dvsre-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=1460979370

It goes to show how eager the public is to disbelieve the Warren
Commission, and how eager and willing they are to base their pro-
conspiracy thinking on something as flimsy as one witness' estimate of
when she started down those Book Depository stairs. Kinda sad, isn't
it?


JEAN DAVISON SAID:

I have a question for anyone who accepts Vickie Adams' time line and
believes that she came downstairs before Truly & Baker had reached the
freight elevator on the 1st floor.

If she's right, how does her story prove that Oswald didn't come down
those stairs?

In the WC version, Baker spotted Oswald just after each man had
reached the second floor landing. That means that while Truly & Baker
were rushing up from the 1st floor to the second, Oswald would've
presumably been hurrying from about the 3rd floor to the 2nd. So where
were Adams and Styles during that time, according to Adams? Already
outside the building!

Can someone explain how her time line prevents Oswald from using those
stairs?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

It doesn't prevent Oswald from using those same stairs. And that is
something I have also pointed out in my posts in the past:

"I'll say this regarding Vickie Adams' timeline....The more I
think about this subject, the more I realize that even if Adams DID
descend those stairs as quickly as she said she did, that particular
scenario really does no harm whatsoever to the "Oswald Did It"
conclusion.

Why?

Because...then Adams and Styles very likely BEAT Lee Harvey Oswald to
the stairs. Hence, it's likely that Adams & Styles were always AHEAD
of Oswald on their descent down the stairs.

And if Adams & Styles were really THAT fast at getting to the first
floor, then they could have possibly beaten Baker & Truly too, with
B&T only getting on the stairs after A&S had vacated the stairwell."
-- DVP; February 17, 2011

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17359&page=2#entry219776

[aeffects]

On May 7, 6:30 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/9ad64ccdec69...

>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
> Curt Jester, in his post linked above, is assigning ludicrous levels
> of assumed perfection to things that can never be pinned down that
> accurately.
>
> All of these "timelines" revolving around Vickie Adams, Sandra Styles,
> Bill Shelley, Marrion Baker, and also Lee Harvey Oswald can only be
> estimated to a certain degree, and can never be micro-analyzed right
> down to the second....and everybody knows it (even "Curt Jester").
>
> If Vickie Adams' timeline is off just a TINY little bit--then Oswald
> can make it. That's all it takes. And yet a whole book has been
> written by Barry Ernest that focuses chiefly on a theory that is
> completely destroyed if Miss Adams is just SLIGHTLY off in her time
> estimate.
>
> And yet, even though most readers SHOULD realize that Ernest's whole
> book is based on a TIME ESTIMATE given by a witness, Ernest's book
> has, amazingly, received glowing reviews from the Amazon readers,
> averaging 4.4 stars (out of 5 maximum) at Amazon.com (through this
> writing on May 7, 2013):
>

> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1460979370?ie=UTF8&tag=dvsre-20&link...

>
> It goes to show how eager the public is to disbelieve the Warren
> Commission, and how eager and willing they are to base their pro-
> conspiracy thinking on something as flimsy as one witness' estimate of
> when she started down those Book Depository stairs. Kinda sad, isn't
> it?

you moron-dweeb, the WCR assumes LHO is/was the sole killer of JFK,
yet, they and YOU can NOT prove it! Not only is that stupid but its
kinda sad, too!
...

[curtjester1]

On May 7, 9:30 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/9ad64ccdec69...

>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
> Curt Jester, in his post linked above, is assigning ludicrous levels
> of assumed perfection to things that can never be pinned down that
> accurately.
>
> All of these "timelines" revolving around Vickie Adams, Sandra Styles,
> Bill Shelley, Marrion Baker, and also Lee Harvey Oswald can only be
> estimated to a certain degree, and can never be micro-analyzed right
> down to the second....and everybody knows it (even "Curt Jester").
>
> If Vickie Adams' timeline is off just a TINY little bit--then Oswald
> can make it. That's all it takes. And yet a whole book has been
> written by Barry Ernest that focuses chiefly on a theory that is
> completely destroyed if Miss Adams is just SLIGHTLY off in her time
> estimate.
>
> And yet, even though most readers SHOULD realize that Ernest's whole
> book is based on a TIME ESTIMATE given by a witness, Ernest's book
> has, amazingly, received glowing reviews from the Amazon readers,
> averaging 4.4 stars (out of 5 maximum) at Amazon.com (through this
> writing on May 7, 2013):
>

> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1460979370?ie=UTF8&tag=dvsre-20&link...

> http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17359&page=2#en...

The LNTers don't realize that the WC was so panicked over not being
able to get LHO in the lunchroom 'safely' that anything and everything
that MIGHT get in there way was dealt with. Belin was even quoted as
to the importance. So what do they do? They concoct a now totally
disproven theory that the girls were downstairs when Shelley and
Lovelady were and there times were somehow very much and by enormous
amount so. Now, that Ernest is on the seen with his new book, The
Girl on the Stairs, he has shown, that the girls most likely beat
Truly and Baker down the stairs (this can be veriifed more by W.E.
Barnett in the Weston research article, The Man In The Dark Sports
Coat), as he went back immediately after the shots as he thought the
shots came from the TSBD, to the back door of the TSBD. There he saw
and talked to Adams and Styles as they came out. He then went later
after the people were congregating GK area to the front of the TSBD,
and said the time he got there was 2 1/2 to 3 minutes after the shots
ended. This supports a very quick timeline for the girls, and of
course proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Shelley and Lovelady
were coerced to lie, and what a conspiracy in itself it was to alter
and fabricate testimony to reach a desired lone-gunman goal. In all
this, it was shown that the girls' boss, Dorothy Garner, not only
stated to Adams that Truly and Baker came up after the girls, but she
went out following the girls by the back stairway that a descending
assassin would have to get through. No one was heard or seen by Mrs.
Garner.

CJ

[aeffects]

On May 7, 6:30 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

<nonsense of course>

you sir, are full of adjectives and that's about it! Your mother is
not proud! Moron!

[Ben Holmes]

In article <52aa4d97-69b6-4ef8...@kq11g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,
aeffects says...

Full of speculation as well, no doubt.

Speculation for the Warren Commission Believer takes the place of evidence.

[dli...@gmail.com]

David Von Pein is a good collector --and a webmaster of sorts. (Let's give credit where credit is due). But that's about all he is. He cannot reason very well, and --basically--he's a professional propagandist. If there had been an Internet 700 years ago, and he was around at that time, he'd be spending his time as a spokes-person for the Flat Earth Society. He's really not much better than that. Von Pein is what happens when the readily available technology of the Internet gets into the hands of a closed mind and an intellectual reactionary.

But that's all right. We can all benefit from his website, even if he's too intellectually limited to "connect the dots" correctly.

DSL
12/25/14 - 8 am PST
Los Angeles, California

[Sam McClung]

<dli...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:d932f405-0057-4dbe...@googlegroups.com...

I have always been of the impression since beginning to read a.c.jfk in late 1998 that von Pein knows there was a
conspiracy but chooses to argue the other side, for whatever reason who knows. Thus I agree with you that he is a
professional propagandist. I think that had he been a spokesperson 700 years ago for the Flat Earth Society he would
have done so with knowledge that the earth is not flat. I'm not sure I agree with you he has a closed mind since he
seems to have developed a way to farm his efforts into money (and a tiny amount for the gargantuan effort expended - he
probably could have made more working for KFC for the same amount of effort, assuming making money was his goal, which
it may not be), that seems to indicate some degree of open mindedness, even if it is somewhat deviant if he does indeed
know there was a conspiracy yet lives in denial of it publicly. "Intellectual reactionary" is spot on. Is this maybe
resentment of an earlier aspect of his life? At times he seems to display a certain degree of manners, which almost
undoes his misguided attempt to lead with nontruths.

[Ben Holmes]

In article <d932f405-0057-4dbe...@googlegroups.com>,
dli...@gmail.com says...

>
>On Sunday, May 5, 2013 11:03:10 AM UTC-7, aeffects wrote:
>> quote on

>>=20

>> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>> The "surgery of the head area" crap is yet another myth that Mr.
>> Lifton, like a child named Linus who can't bear the thought of
>> getting
>> rid of his trusty security blanket, refuses to let go of.

>>=20
>> quote off
>>=20

>> this folks from the chief .johnite lone nut researcher David Von
>> Pein... kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it just what kind of 50th
>> anniversary of the murder of a sitting president the current lone nut,
>> WCR/SBT supporting, LHO did it all by his lonesome camp is putting on
>> in Dallas Texas this year, eh?

>>=20

>> Frankly, I think Von Pein's experience being involved in Bugliosi's
>> colossal book publishing debacle-failure (Reclaiming History) has
>> effected his sensibilities not to mention his grasp of reality.

>>=20

>> Perhaps it was Dale Myers being selected as chief ghost writer for
>> Reclaiming History, that has Von Pein (still) all bent out of shape?

>>=20

>> Here's your reality DavidVP-poo, Lifton will write a new book, have it
>> published, you'll buy it, pore over it, then be right back here
>> whining (to no avail) about it... all while still standing on the
>> sidelines... this is what 10 blogs, 15 websites. 500 uploaded
>> videos, ??? audio clips, 200,000 posts to various USENET boards and
>> forums will buy you.... You are entitled to your own high-flying
>> opinion (which is worthless of course) just NOT your own facts,
>> hon....

>>=20

>> And the debate is all about the facts...

>>=20
>> Carry on troll!
>
>David Von Pein is a good collector --and a webmaster of sorts. (Let's give =
>credit where credit is due). But that's about all he is. He cannot reason v=
>ery well, and --basically--he's a professional propagandist. If there had =
>been an Internet 700 years ago, and he was around at that time, he'd be spe=
>nding his time as a spokes-person for the Flat Earth Society. He's really n=
>ot much better than that. Von Pein is what happens when the readily availa=
>ble technology of the Internet gets into the hands of a closed mind and an =
>intellectual reactionary.
>
>But that's all right. We can all benefit from his website, even if he's too=

> intellectually limited to "connect the dots" correctly.
>
>DSL
>12/25/14 - 8 am PST
>Los Angeles, California

DVP is actually a rather poor webmaster... he doesn't have a clue about how to
put together a good website.

His websites look like they were made in the 90's.

DVP tried valiantly to defend Bugliosi's lie about Carrico and Perry
describing the original bullet wound to JFK's throat as "ragged"... he finally
admitted that it must have been a "senior moment" on Bugliosi's part.

He's too dishonest to admit what it actually is - a blatant lie to hide some
of the most powerful evidence in the entire case...

[Bud]

You could never bring yourself to admit that Mark Lane lied when he called CE399 "undeformed".

[healy.d...@gmail.com]

focus Dudster, F-O-C-U-S, son. DVP and his inept website is the current thread focus. And besides, Mark Lane has been kicking lone nut, WCR supporters ass for nearly 50 years now.... lmfao!

[tom...@cox.net]

===========================================================================
===== DAVID VON PAIN (IN THE ASS) IS VERY INSECURE ALSO AND, NOT VERY SURE
OF HIS POSITION ON THE JFK ASSASSINATION ! ! !

EVRY TIME HE HAS BEEN ASKED TO DEBATE HIS POSITION WITH ANY CONSPIRACY
ELIEVER, VON PAIN (IN THE AS HAS DECLINED ! ! !
===========================================================================
=======

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