Mrs Markham`s bus
Bud
considered by the kooks to be a carved in stone, atomic clock verified
fact. I`ve always challenged them to produce the bus schedule
verifying Markhams statement, but as always, when the kooks are
comfortable with a piece of information, that is considered good
enough (they aren`t even mildly interested why she is leaving so early
to go to her 2:30 job, for instance). I remembered seeing bus
schedules in the "Documents" section of the WC report (It`s Commission
Document 1128), so I went there last night to see if I could find out
details about the bus she took. I found her bus schedule (you`ll need
to put the page size at 200% to read them), and although it doesn`t
give times for all the stops, it does provide enough information to
tell the real time Markham`s bus stopped at her stop (Patton and
Jefferson). First, the map of the route. This map shows that the
Lancaster bus (55) starts at Kingsley and Lancaster, a bus leaving
about every hour during non-peak service. There is a longer route that
runss mornings and evenings during rush hour, but that wasn`t in
effect midday.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11524&relPageId=8
Here is the bus schedule for the Lancaster bus. Marham`s work was
near the end of the rounte, the Eatwell Diner on Main St. She caught
the bus somewhere along Jefferson (with Patton not being shown as a
cross street). The departure times are given for buses, they start at
Kingsley and Lancaster, and head north (inbound). The bus Markham
caught would have to be the one that left at 1:01. The only time given
on the schedule is when the bus was scheduled to reach the cross
street of Saner. The schedule says to add 10 minutes to that
destination from the departure times, meaning it takes the bus 10
minutes to reach Saner (There is a similar listing on the outbound
side telling how the bus would also take 10 minutes going southbound
to reach Jefferson and Ewing from Main... probably close to Markhams
trip, showing she only had about a 10 minute bus ride to get to work.
Why leave so early? The next bus leaves Kingsley about 2:00, probably
reaching her stop at 2:25, dropping her off on Main at 2:35, making
her late.). In ant case, the schedule says it takes this bus ten
minutes to reach Saner from Kingsley (putting the bus there at 1:11,
with only 4 minutes left to reach Markham`s stop at the time she gave.
A glance at the bus route map will tell anyone that isn`t possible),
and google maps put the distance between Kingsley and Lancaster to
Saner and Lancaster to be 1.9 miles. So, it takes this bus 10 minutes
to go roughly 2 miles. Markham`s stop at Patton and Jefferson is 5
miles from the bus start at Kingsley and Lancaster. If it takes ten
minutes to go 2 miles, it would take the bus 25 minutes to go 5 miles.
The bus would reach Markham`s stop around 1:26.
Chuck Schuyler
> For years the time Markham said she caught her bus (1:15) has been
> considered by the kooks to be a carved in stone, atomic clock verified
> fact. I`ve always challenged them to produce the bus schedule
> verifying Markhams statement, but as always, when the kooks are
> comfortable with a piece of information, that is considered good
> enough (they aren`t even mildly interested why she is leaving so early
> to go to her 2:30 job, for instance). I remembered seeing bus
> schedules in the "Documents" section of the WC report (It`s Commission
> Document 1128), so I went there last night to see if I could find out
> details about the bus she took. I found her bus schedule (you`ll need
> to put the page size at 200% to read them), and although it doesn`t
> give times for all the stops, it does provide enough information to
> tell the real time Markham`s bus stopped at her stop (Patton and
> Jefferson). First, the map of the route. This map shows that the
> Lancaster bus (55) starts at Kingsley and Lancaster, a bus leaving
> about every hour during non-peak service. There is a longer route that
> runss mornings and evenings during rush hour, but that wasn`t in
> effect midday.
>
Good, commonsense analysis, Bud.
Bud
The link doesn`t seem to work, let me try again....
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11524&relPageId=7
Chuck Schuyler
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=115...
I can access it.
Walt
> For years the time Markham said she caught her bus (1:15) has been
> considered by the kooks to be a carved in stone, atomic clock verified
> fact.
run on a shedule. They are scheduled to be at designated points at
exact times. That doesn't mean as scheduled by an atomic clock, but
it does mean that they have to travel along the designated routes and
be at given points at a scheduled time.
I`ve always challenged them to produce the bus schedule
> verifying Markhams statement, but as always, when the kooks are
> comfortable with a piece of information, that is considered good
> enough (they aren`t even mildly interested why she is leaving so early
> to go to her 2:30 job, for instance).
Hey Dumbass...how would anybody know why Helen Markham wanted to go
into town early?? Perhaps she liked to shop for a while before going
to work, or maybe she routinely visited with somebody in town before
going to work.
I remembered seeing bus
> schedules in the "Documents" section of the WC report (It`s Commission
> Document 1128), so I went there last night to see if I could find out
> details about the bus she took. I found her bus schedule (you`ll need
> to put the page size at 200% to read them), and although it doesn`t
> give times for all the stops, it does provide enough information to
> tell the real time Markham`s bus stopped at her stop (Patton and
> Jefferson). First, the map of the route. This map shows that the
> Lancaster bus (55) starts at Kingsley and Lancaster, a bus leaving
> about every hour during non-peak service. There is a longer route that
> runss mornings and evenings during rush hour, but that wasn`t in
> effect midday.
>
> http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=115...
>
> Here is the bus schedule for the Lancaster bus. Marham`s work was
> near the end of the rounte, the Eatwell Diner on Main St. She caught
> the bus somewhere along Jefferson (with Patton not being shown as a
> cross street).
Patton and Jefferson is about where the letter"S" is in the word
Jefferson on that map.
The departure times are given for buses, they start at
> Kingsley and Lancaster, and head north (inbound). The bus Markham
> caught would have to be the one that left at 1:01. The only time given
> on the schedule is when the bus was scheduled to reach the cross
> street of Saner. The schedule says to add 10 minutes to that
> destination from the departure times, meaning it takes the bus 10
> minutes to reach Saner
No, that's not correct.... It certainly wouldn't take the north bound
bus 10 minutes to travel from Kingley and Lancaster to Saner
street....... That distance is only about eight blocks, and a person
could walk that distance in ten minutes.
UNLESS.... The bus stopped at the veteran's hospital for a few
minutes, to allow for parients on crutchs or to load patients in wheel
chairs.
(There is a similar listing on the outbound
> side telling how the bus would also take 10 minutes going southbound
> to reach Jefferson and Ewing from Main... probably close to Markhams
> trip, showing she only had about a 10 minute bus ride to get to work.
> Why leave so early?
My guess the reason that Markham left her apartment a few minutes
after 1:00pm was to catch the bus that departed from Lancaster and
Kingsley at 1:01.
If she waited for the next northbound bus ( 1:59) she would be late
for work.
The next bus leaves Kingsley about 2:00, probably
> reaching her stop at 2:25, dropping her off on Main at 2:35, making
> her late.). In ant case, the schedule says it takes this bus ten
> minutes to reach Saner from Kingsley (putting the bus there at 1:11,
> with only 4 minutes left to reach Markham`s stop at the time she gave.
> A glance at the bus route map will tell anyone that isn`t possible),
> and google maps put the distance between Kingsley and Lancaster to
> Saner and Lancaster to be 1.9 miles. So, it takes this bus 10 minutes
> to go roughly 2 miles.
That's because the bus stopped at the Veterans hospital for a few
minutes
> Markham`s stop at Patton and Jefferson is 5
> miles from the bus start at Kingsley and Lancaster. If it takes ten
> minutes to go 2 miles,
That's true if the bus is moving that entire time of ten minutes. It
would average 12 miles per hour..... Have you ever seen a bus
traveling at just 12 MPH???
You don't have any commonsense do you?? Anybody with commonsense
knows that City Transit busses move right along at 25 to 40 MPH
( depending on traffic and area of town they are traversing)
it would take the bus 25 minutes to go 5 miles.
> The bus would reach Markham`s stop around 1:26.
Nonsense..... Markham knew that her bus arrived at 1:15...
>
> http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do;jsessioni...
aeffects
the nutter's need something to grasp onto, Walt. After all, they've
been neutered by Mark Lane, AGAIN! fer GAWD sakes...
>
>
> > http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do;jsessioni...
Walt
Yes.... Old Man Lane can still smack em around verbally can't he??
He chewed up DVP's hero (Buglosi) and spit him out, like a spent piece
of chewing gum.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do;jsessioni...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Walt
> considered by the kooks to be a carved in stone, atomic clock verified
> fact. I`ve always challenged them to produce the bus schedule
> verifying Markhams statement, but as always, when the kooks are
> comfortable with a piece of information, that is considered good
> enough (they aren`t even mildly interested why she is leaving so early
> to go to her 2:30 job, for instance). I remembered seeing bus
> schedules in the "Documents" section of the WC report (It`s Commission
> Document 1128), so I went there last night to see if I could find out
> details about the bus she took. I found her bus schedule (you`ll need
> to put the page size at 200% to read them), and although it doesn`t
> give times for all the stops, it does provide enough information to
> tell the real time Markham`s bus stopped at her stop (Patton and
> Jefferson). First, the map of the route. This map shows that the
> Lancaster bus (55) starts at Kingsley and Lancaster, a bus leaving
> about every hour during non-peak service. There is a longer route that
> runss mornings and evenings during rush hour, but that wasn`t in
> effect midday.
>
>
> Here is the bus schedule for the Lancaster bus. Marham`s work was
> near the end of the rounte, the Eatwell Diner on Main St. She caught
> the bus somewhere along Jefferson (with Patton not being shown as a
> cross street). The departure times are given for buses, they start at
> Kingsley and Lancaster, and head north (inbound). The bus Markham
> caught would have to be the one that left at 1:01. The only time given
> on the schedule is when the bus was scheduled to reach the cross
> street of Saner. The schedule says to add 10 minutes to that
> destination from the departure times, meaning it takes the bus 10
> minutes to reach Saner (There is a similar listing on the outbound
> side telling how the bus would also take 10 minutes going southbound
> to reach Jefferson and Ewing from Main... probably close to Markhams
> trip, showing she only had about a 10 minute bus ride to get to work.
> Why leave so early? The next bus leaves Kingsley about 2:00, probably
> reaching her stop at 2:25, dropping her off on Main at 2:35, making
> her late.). In ant case, the schedule says it takes this bus ten
> minutes to reach Saner from Kingsley (putting the bus there at 1:11,
> with only 4 minutes left to reach Markham`s stop at the time she gave.
> A glance at the bus route map will tell anyone that isn`t possible),
> and google maps put the distance between Kingsley and Lancaster to
> Saner and Lancaster to be 1.9 miles.
According to the scale on Map Quest....It's about 1.9 miles from
Lancaster and Saner to Jefferson and Patton..... and it's less than a
mile from Lancaster and Kingsley to Lancaster and Saner. The total
distance from Kingsley and Lancaster, to Patton And Jefferson, is
about 3 miles. Do you think it took a city transit bus 25 minutes
to go 3 miles?? ROTFLMAO....7 MPH... Is this what's known as RAPID
transit??
Was Dallas still using horse drawn street cars in 1963??
So, it takes this bus 10 minutes
> to go roughly 2 miles. Markham`s stop at Patton and Jefferson is 5
> miles from the bus start at Kingsley and Lancaster. If it takes ten
> minutes to go 2 miles, it would take the bus 25 minutes to go 5 miles.
> The bus would reach Markham`s stop around 1:26.
>
> http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do;jsessioni...
Bud
Walt wrote:
> On 12 Mar, 07:46, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
> > � � For years the time Markham said she caught her bus (1:15) has been
> > considered by the kooks to be a carved in stone, atomic clock verified
> > fact.
> Don't be ostentatious..... Everybady knows that public transit buses
> run on a shedule. They are scheduled to be at designated points at
> exact times. That doesn't mean as scheduled by an atomic clock, but
> it does mean that they have to travel along the designated routes and
> be at given points at a scheduled time.
>
>
> I`ve always challenged them to produce the bus schedule
> > verifying Markhams statement, but as always, when the kooks are
> > comfortable with a piece of information, that is considered good
> > enough (they aren`t even mildly interested why she is leaving so early
> > to go to her 2:30 job, for instance).
>
> Hey Dumbass...how would anybody know why Helen Markham wanted to go
> into town early?? Perhaps she liked to shop for a while before going
> to work, or maybe she routinely visited with somebody in town before
> going to work.
Perhaps when she said 1:15, the time she was giving was the time
she liked to be at the bus stop by.With the buses runing an hour
apart, missing one means a long wait for the next.
Like I pointed out, google maps puts the distance between the two
intersections (Kingsley and Lancaster to Saner and Lancaster). The
schedule says it takes the bus 10 minutes to get from Kingsley to
Saner on Lancaster.
.
> UNLESS.... The bus stopped at the veteran's hospital for a few
> minutes, to allow for parients on crutchs or to load patients in wheel
> chairs.
Goggle maps says a normal driving car should make the trip from
Kingley to Saner on Lancaster in 4 minutes. A bus stopping to let
people on and off would obviously take a bit longer.
> (There is a similar listing on the outbound
> > side telling how the bus would also take 10 minutes going southbound
> > to reach Jefferson and Ewing from Main... probably close to Markhams
> > trip, showing she only had about a 10 minute bus ride to get to work.
> > Why leave so early?
>
> My guess the reason that Markham left her apartment a few minutes
> after 1:00pm was to catch the bus that departed from Lancaster and
> Kingsley at 1:01.
And I`ve shown a bus leaving at 1:01 from Kingley could not be at
Markham`s stop at 1:15.
> If she waited for the next northbound bus ( 1:59) she would be late
> for work.
Same conclusion I made. Because the 1:59 bus won`t reach her stop
until around 2:25, with around ten minutes of driving to go to reach
her work.
> The next bus leaves Kingsley about 2:00, �probably
> > reaching her stop at 2:25, dropping her off on Main at 2:35, making
> > her late.). In ant case, the schedule says it takes this bus ten
> > minutes to reach Saner from Kingsley (putting the bus there at 1:11,
> > with only 4 minutes left to reach Markham`s stop at the time she gave.
> > A glance at the bus route map will tell anyone that isn`t possible),
> > and google maps put the distance between Kingsley and Lancaster to
> > Saner and Lancaster to be 1.9 miles. So, it takes this bus 10 minutes
> > to go roughly 2 miles.
>
> That's because the bus stopped at the Veterans hospital for a few
> minutes
<snicker> Where did you get this information from? Your ass?
> > Markham`s stop at Patton and Jefferson is 5
> > miles from the bus start at Kingsley and Lancaster. If it takes ten
> > minutes to go 2 miles,
>
> That's true if the bus is moving that entire time of ten minutes. It
> would average 12 miles per hour..... Have you ever seen a bus
> traveling at just 12 MPH???
They stop to let people on. They stop to let people off. They miss
lights because they have to let people on and off. Being such a large
vehicle, they don`t have the options smaller vehicles have to pass.
Have you ever been stuck behind a bus? They travel at least half the
speed of regular traffic.
> You don't have any commonsense do you?? Anybody with commonsense
> knows that City Transit busses move right along at 25 to 40 MPH
> ( depending on traffic and area of town they are traversing)
You are an idiot. Buses stop often to pick people up, and let
people off. They are at the mercy of traffic flow with little chance
to maneuver. Google maps estimates it should take 13 minutes to travel
the 5 miles from Kingsley and Lancaster to Patton and Jefferson
(Markham`s stop). That means a car should make it to that destination
from Kingsley at 1:14 if it starts at 1:01. Is it your contention that
it takes a bus only a minute more to make this trip, to get there at
the time Markham gave?
> it would take the bus 25 minutes to go 5 miles.
> > The bus would reach Markham`s stop around 1:26.
>
> Nonsense..... Markham knew that her bus arrived at 1:15...
I`ve shown a bus leaving at 1:01 can`t get to her stop at that
time. 1:25 is a much more likely time. But I`m not surprised you would
cling to what you want to believe over what can be shown.
> > � � � �http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do;jsessioni...
Bud
Go to google maps, Walt. They will tell you the distance between
any two intersections you enter. In that way we don`t have to rely on
an idiot holding a ruler up to his monitor.
>.It's about 1.9 miles from
> Lancaster and Saner to Jefferson and Patton.....
More like three.
>and it's less than a
> mile from Lancaster and Kingsley to Lancaster and Saner.
Almost two.
> The total
> distance from Kingsley and Lancaster, to Patton And Jefferson, is
> about 3 miles.
Five miles. I`ll see if I can paste the information for you....
> Do you think it took a city transit bus 25 minutes
> to go 3 miles??
No, I think you haven`t got the anything right yet.
Bud
Looking at this, I think I can see the cause for the descrepancies
between my distances and Walt`s. He is giving "as the crow flies" type
distances, while google maps is giving the distances needed to travel
to get from one place to another. Since a city bus is not a
helicopter, but stuck on the roads, it`s the distances it has to
travel on those roads that is relevant to this discussion. Also, I
notice that google maps gives a different route then the Lancaster bus
goes. Google maps gives the most efficient route, whereas a bus is
constrained to the route it has assigned to it. One last thing... I
noticed that when I hit "reverse directions", it gave a longer (6.6
miles), but quicker (12 minutes) route going the opposite way.
Bud
See if he can come here and help Walt read a map.
> >
> >
> > > http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do;jsessioni...
robcap...@netscape.com
>
"Looking at this, I think I can see the cause for the descrepancies
between my distances and Walt`s. He is giving "as the crow flies" type
distances, while google maps is giving the distances needed to travel
to get from one place to another. Since a city bus is not a
helicopter, but stuck on the roads, it`s the distances it has to
travel on those roads that is relevant to this discussion. Also, I
notice that google maps gives a different route then the Lancaster bus
goes. Google maps gives the most efficient route, whereas a bus is
constrained to the route it has assigned to it. One last thing... I
noticed that when I hit "reverse directions", it gave a longer (6.6
miles), but quicker (12 minutes) route going the opposite way."
Bud you can SPIN this anyway you want, and it is obvious to all that
is what you are attempting to do, but Markham testified to to the fact
her bus arrived at 1:15 p.m. and you can't change that. The WC went
and messed things up by claiming JDT was shot at 1:16 p.m. so blame
them, but the point is she would have been on her bus at the time of
the shooting per the WC, and NO WHERE near 10th and Patton. You can
kick and scream all you want, but you can't change this.
>
>
>
> > > Do you think it took a city transit bus 25 minutes
> > > to go 3 miles??
>
> > No, I think you haven`t got the anything right yet.
>
> > > ROTFLMAO....7 MPH... Is this what's known as RAPID
> > > transit??
>
> > > Was Dallas still using horse drawn street cars in 1963??
>
> > > So, it takes this bus 10 minutes
> > > > to go roughly 2 miles. Markham`s stop at Patton and Jefferson is 5
> > > > miles from the bus start at Kingsley and Lancaster. If it takes ten
> > > > minutes to go 2 miles, it would take the bus 25 minutes to go 5 miles.
> > > > The bus would reach Markham`s stop around 1:26.
>
> > > > � � � �http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do;jsessioni...- Hide quoted text -
David Von Pein
The WC didn't all of a sudden (out of the blue) decide that JDT was
shot at around 1:16, you screwball. That's what the documented DPD
records indicate (well, they don't actually say that Tippit was SHOT
at 1:16, naturally, since the radio call from Bowley was transmitted
at 1:16, meaning that the shooting must have occurred a short time
before 1:16).
And the "1:16" timestamping is by far the best "TIME" estimate we've
got for the event...like it or not.
So go blame the DPD timeclocks.
>>> "The point is she would have been on her bus at the time of the shooting per the WC, and NO WHERE near 10th and Patton." <<<
Funny, though, that Markham WAS definitely at 10th & Patton when
SOMEBODY WAS KILLING OFFICER TIPPIT....because she SAW the officer
being killed at 10th & Patton. Like it or not. And the best timing for
the shooting is based on that 1:16 radio call put in by Bowley (which
followed the "clicks" on the DPD recording just seconds earlier, made
by Benavides).
Do you DENY that Helen Markham saw Tippit being murdered, Mr. Kook?
Bud
Just producing information you kooks have failed to consider. Even
with it put under your noses, you will fail to consider it, because it
is harmful to your "Oswald is innocent" delusions.
> and it is obvious to all that
> is what you are attempting to do,
Determine when Markham`s bus picked up passengers at Patton and
Jefferson.
> but Markham testified to to the fact
> her bus arrived at 1:15 p.m. and you can't change that.
And she said she saw Oswald shoot Tippit, so I guess thats settled.
> The WC went
> and messed things up by claiming JDT was shot at 1:16 p.m. so blame
> them,
There is no harm in trying to determine the truth. You kooks should
try it.
> but the point is she would have been on her bus at the time of
> the shooting per the WC, and NO WHERE near 10th and Patton.
How do you account for the fact that it can be shown that her bus
couldn`t have reached Patton and Jefferson by 1:15?
> You can
> kick and scream all you want, but you can't change this.
Why bother to respond if you aren`t going to address the issues
raised?
Walt
> >>> "The WC went and messed things up by claiming JDT was shot at 1:16 p.m. so blame them." <<<
>
> The WC didn't all of a sudden (out of the blue) decide that JDT was
> shot at around 1:16, you screwball. That's what the documented DPD
> records indicate (well, they don't actually say that Tippit was SHOT
> at 1:16, naturally, since the radio call from Bowley was transmitted
> at 1:16, meaning that the shooting must have occurred a short time
> before 1:16).
Are you serious?? or smokin that stuff again?? Do you really
believe that Bowley arrived on the scene at 1:10 (That's his sworn
statement) but waited SIX minutes before he called the dispatcher??
Bowley said he arrived and saw the officer lying in the street. He
took a quick look and grabbed Tippit's radio and reported that an
officer had been shot at 404 East 10th street. He didn't stand around
pickin his nose for six minutes. Benavides was the first citizen to
use Tippit's radio at about 1:08 / 1:09. He gave the address as 410
East 10th street. As soon as he hung the radio back in it's cradle.
TF Bowley slid into the car and called the dispatcher. Bowley gave the
address as 404 East 10th.
Several minutes later Ted Callaway arrived on the scene and he too
grabbed Tippit's radio to report the shooting. Callaway is the only
one who told the dispatcher that he thought the officer was dead. The
dispatcher told him to stay off the air. Just as he placed the mike
back in the cradle the ambulance arrived.
Walt
Dud.... If Markham caught the bus that departed at 1:59 she would
arrive at Field and main ( near the Eatwell Cafe) at 2:28. That's
cutting it too close. She was sheduled to be at work at 2:30. Look at
the schedule it's obvious that the each bus took approximately one
hour to make the round trip from Field and Main. The bus that departed
from Lancaster and Kingsley arrived at Field and Main about 1/2 hour
later at 1:30.
>
> > The next bus leaves Kingsley about 2:00, �probably
> > > reaching her stop at 2:25, dropping her off on Main at 2:35, making
> > > her late.). In ant case, the schedule says it takes this bus ten
> > > minutes to reach Saner from Kingsley (putting the bus there at 1:11,
> > > with only 4 minutes left to reach Markham`s stop at the time she gave.
> > > A glance at the bus route map will tell anyone that isn`t possible),
> > > and google maps put the distance between Kingsley and Lancaster to
> > > Saner and Lancaster to be 1.9 miles. So, it takes this bus 10 minutes
> > > to go roughly 2 miles.
>
> > That's because the bus stopped at the Veterans hospital for a few
> > minutes
>
> <snicker> Where did you get this information from? Your ass?
The map clearly shows that the bus route goes through the private
drive in front of the Va hospital. Why do you thnk it went to the
front door of the hospital?? Why not just drive right by on
Lancaster??
Walt
>
> Looking at this, I think I can see the cause for the descrepancies
> between my distances and Walt`s. He is giving "as the crow flies" type
> distances,
Nope.... I'm using the distance that crow would have to walk if he had
a broken wing.
while google maps is giving the distances needed to travel
> to get from one place to another. Since a city bus is not a
> helicopter, but stuck on the roads, it`s the distances it has to
> travel on those roads that is relevant to this discussion. Also, I
> notice that google maps gives a different route then the Lancaster bus
> goes. Google maps gives the most efficient route, whereas a bus is
> constrained to the route it has assigned to it. One last thing... I
> noticed that when I hit "reverse directions", it gave a longer (6.6
> miles), but quicker (12 minutes) route going the opposite way.
>
>
>
> > > Do you think it took a city transit bus 25 minutes
> > > to go 3 miles??
>
> > No, I think you haven`t got the anything right yet.
>
> > > ROTFLMAO....7 MPH... Is this what's known as RAPID
> > > transit??
>
> > > Was Dallas still using horse drawn street cars in 1963??
>
> > > So, it takes this bus 10 minutes
> > > > to go roughly 2 miles. Markham`s stop at Patton and Jefferson is 5
> > > > miles from the bus start at Kingsley and Lancaster. If it takes ten
> > > > minutes to go 2 miles, it would take the bus 25 minutes to go 5 miles.
> > > > The bus would reach Markham`s stop around 1:26.
>
Chuck Schuyler
>
> Go to google maps, Walt. They will tell you the distance between
> any two intersections you enter. In that way we don`t have to rely on
> an idiot holding a ruler up to his monitor.
Bud:
Don't give him any ideas.
Remember that you are talking about a guy (Walt) that built a
CARDBOARD model of Dealey Plaza to get to the bottom of the JFK
'mystery'.
robcap...@netscape.com
> >>> "The WC went and messed things up by claiming JDT was shot at 1:16 p.m. so blame them." <<<
"The WC didn't all of a sudden (out of the blue) decide that JDT was
shot at around 1:16, you screwball."
They sure did since NONE of the eyewitness testimony or the radio
calls put the shooting anywhere near that late. They picked a time
despite ALL the evidence to make it seem possible for LHO to do the
crime in the first place.
"That's what the documented DPD records indicate (well, they don't
actually say that Tippit was SHOT at 1:16, naturally, since the radio
call from Bowley was transmitted at 1:16, meaning that the shooting
must have occurred a short time
before 1:16)."
You obviously have NOT read Bowley's affadavit because he says, "I saw
a police officer lying next to the left front wheel. I stopped my car
and got out to go to the scene. I looked at my watch and it said 1:10
pm. Several people were at the scene."
Funny he was never called before the WC, huh?
"And the "1:16" timestamping is by far the best "TIME" estimate we've
got for the event...like it or not."
Really? How did you arrive at that conclusion? Every witness said it
was before then, including your star witness, Markham.
"So go blame the DPD timeclocks."
It is very unlikely their timeclocks would be that off.
> >>> "The point is she would have been on her bus at the time of the shooting per the WC, and NO WHERE near 10th and Patton." <<<
"Funny, though, that Markham WAS definitely at 10th & Patton when
SOMEBODY WAS KILLING OFFICER TIPPIT....because she SAW the officer
being killed at 10th & Patton. Like it or not. And the best timing for
the shooting is based on that 1:16 radio call put in by Bowley (which
followed the "clicks" on the DPD recording just seconds earlier, made
by Benavides)."
Prove she was there, as I have three witness who said they never saw
her. Futhermore, she claimed to talk with him when the coroner said
he died instantly. She also said the man leaned into the passenger
side window and talked with Tippit when the window was up and the
photos taken at the scene prove this. She said he was walking east,
when every other witness says the man is walking WEST. Some witness.
She was beneficial to the CT cause though as she was honest enough to
show in her testimony that she could NOT ID LHO.
"Do you DENY that Helen Markham saw Tippit being murdered, Mr. Kook?"
Of course, because ALL the physical evidence proves he did NOT shoot
Tippit.
tomnln
"Chuck Schuyler" <chu...@am-mtg.com> wrote in message
news:5f69daa9-d244-49dd...@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Bud:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HERE is what a scale model of Dealy Plaza looks like chuckie;
http://whokilledjfk.net/catch_of_the_day.htm
Heck of a LOT better than the "House of Cards" of the WCR.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Von Pein
DVP SAID:
>>> "Do you DENY that Helen Markham saw Tippit being murdered, Mr. Kook?" <<<
ROB-NUTCASE THEN UTTERED (without bothering to fully read what was
written above):
>>> "Of course, because ALL the physical evidence proves he did NOT shoot Tippit." <<<
DVP NOW RETORTS:
Oh, good! Now Rob seems to be of the opinion that J.D. Tippit was not
shot at all (by ANYBODY) on Nov. 22.
Good one, Rob.
Todd W. Vaughan
> "Chuck Schuyler" <chu...@am-mtg.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5f69daa9-d244-49dd...@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 12, 4:23 pm, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Go to google maps, Walt. They will tell you the distance between
> > any two intersections you enter. In that way we don`t have to rely on
> > an idiot holding a ruler up to his monitor.
>
> Bud:
>
> Don't give him any ideas.
>
> Remember that you are talking about a guy (Walt) that built a
> CARDBOARD model of Dealey Plaza to get to the bottom of the JFK
> 'mystery'.
>
> HERE is what a scale model of Dealy Plaza looks like chuckie;
>
> http://whokilledjfk.net/catch_of_the_day.htm
I see Lane and Evica. Who else is there? IS that Freddy Mercury on the
far right?
>
> Heck of a LOT better than the "House of Cards" of the WCR.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Von Pein
"MRS. MARKHAM'S BUS":
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/0df008997f412bb7
====================================================
>>> "Do you really believe that Bowley arrived on the scene at 1:10 (that's his sworn statement) but waited SIX minutes before he called the dispatcher??" <<<
Of course not. Only the conspiracy-seeking kooks of the world would be
silly enough to wholly and religiously rely on the time estimates
given by witnesses, while ignoring the mountain of "OSWALD POSITIVELY
KILLED TIPPIT" evidence at the same time.
You knew better than to ask a non-kook that last question, didn't you
Walt?
>>> "He {T.F. Bowley} took a quick look and grabbed Tippit's radio and reported that an officer had been shot at 404 East 10th Street. He didn't stand around pickin' his nose for six minutes." <<<
SEGUE TIME (this is slightly "Off-Topic", but it's kinda related in a
sense too):
I think this would be a good time for me to again bring up the
assassination sub-topic of Lee Harvey Oswald supposedly staying in his
shoebox-sized rented room at 1026 N. Beckley Avenue for "3 or 4
minutes" on 11/22/63 (per Earlene Roberts' Warren Commission
testimony).
Maybe Oswald (who we KNOW was "in a hurry", per Mrs. Roberts) was in
his teeny-tiny room for "3 or 4 minutes" "pickin' his nose"...instead
of grabbing his gun and jacket and high-tailing it out of 1026 Beckley
as fast as he could. (And when he left his room he was "making tracks
pretty fast", per Mrs. Roberts.)
This isn't a perfect segue from the "Did Bowley Take 6 Minutes To Call
The Police" sub-topic, but Walt's make-believe "6-minute" interval
between the time he thinks Bowley arrived at the scene of the Tippit
murder and the time Bowley used the police radio* reminded me of the
Earlene Roberts "3 or 4 minutes" timeline regarding Oswald's
activities over on Beckley shortly before LHO killed Officer Tippit.
* = BTW: This make-believe interval of "6 minutes" between Walt's
unsupportable "1:10" exact timing for Bowley's arrival at the murder
scene and the time when Bowley called in the shooting on Tippit's
radio would actually probably be MORE than 6 minutes, because Bowley's
radio call probably really occurred at closer to 1:17 or even 1:18.
The following transcript of the DPD Radio Logs for 11/22/63 does,
indeed, show Bowley making his call to police at "1:16". But just have
a look at all the OTHER calls and radio traffic that is occurring ALSO
at exactly "1:16" per this log. There's a bunch of radio traffic at
"1:16" BEFORE Bowley ever even keys the mike for the first time, plus
there's a gap in the transmissions, denoted on this transcript by the
words "Long pause, 15 seconds":
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes2.htm
If Bowley's call was made at "1:16", it must have been close to
"1:16:58" or "1:16:59"....darn close to kicking over to 1:17 anyway, I
would think.
(See comments re. Dale Myers on this timing issue later in this post.)
Getting back to Mrs. Roberts again for a moment:
While looking through Mrs. Earlene Roberts' WC testimony once again
just now, I took note of this very interesting comment made by Roberts
RIGHT AFTER she gave Joseph Ball of the WC her "3 or 4 minutes"
estimate:
MR. BALL -- "How long did he stay in the room?"
MRS. ROBERTS -- "Oh, maybe not over 3 or 4 minutes. Just long enough,
I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and put it on and he went out
zipping it."
So, Roberts is really telling us there in that testimony that Oswald
was in his room "JUST LONG ENOUGH, I GUESS, TO GO IN THERE AND GET A
JACKET AND PUT IT ON".
Roberts' comment about a specific LENGTH of time ("MAYBE NOT OVER 3 OR
4 MINUTES") should also be weighed against her very next words, which
also concern the subject of how long Oswald was in that tiny room --
"JUST LONG ENOUGH, I GUESS, TO GO IN THERE AND GET A JACKET AND PUT IT
ON".
And my own personal guess is that it does NOT take "3 or 4 minutes" in
real, actual time to merely dash into a crackerbox-sized room, grab a
jacket and a revolver, and then dash back out again.
Even if Oswald took the extra time to fill his gun with six bullets
while he was inside his room that day (which is quite possible indeed,
even probable), the total time he would need to spend in that room
would still not add up to nearly "3 or 4 minutes", in my opinion.
(Unless Oswald had a sudden attack of arthritis.)
>>> "Benavides was the first citizen to use Tippit's radio at about 1:08/1:09." <<<
Goodie! Mythical timestamping put on Benavides' use of the police
radio by a conspiracy-hungry kook! What a surprise.
In reality, of course, Walt has no solid reason at all to think that
Benavides' unsuccessful effort to call the police dispatcher on
Tippit's car radio took place "at about 1:08/1:09".
In point of fact, that "clicking" made by Benavides keying the
microphone occurred at precisely 1:16 PM, per the DPD Radio Logs. Walt
(a Mega ABO Kook, keep in mind) has decided he'll turn the verified
"1:16" attempted radio call by Benavides into a call that took place
at Walt's make-believe "ABO" time of "about 1:08/1:09".
Allow me to quote Dale Myers (from his outstanding and thoroughly-
researched book "WITH MALICE"). And if there's one single person I
trust more than anyone else on Earth when it comes to the topic of
J.D. Tippit's murder....it's Mr. Dale K. Myers:
"Beginning at 1:16 p.m., a microphone is keyed a number of times
on channel one of the Dallas police tapes, as if someone were
'pumping' the microphone button of a police radio. This continues for
a little over 90 seconds, right up until the time passing motorist
T.F. Bowley successfully contacts the dispatcher {so, as alluded to
earlier, per Myers' detailed research into the Tippit murder, this
would indicate that Bowley's call to police could not possibly have
actually occurred until approximately 1:17:30, at the earliest, not
1:16}. ....
"Considering the timing of the sounds heard in the Dallas police
radio recordings, and the corroborating accounts of three witnesses,
the murder of Tippit probably occurred about 90 seconds prior to
Benavides' bungled attempt to notify the dispatcher. Therefore, there
is good reason to believe that J.D. Tippit was shot at approximately
1:14:30 p.m." -- Pages 86-87; "WITH MALICE: LEE HARVEY OSWALD AND THE
MURDER OF OFFICER J.D. TIPPIT" (c.1998)
www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0966270975/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link
Walt
1:00 --- Lee Oswald arrives at his room, and is greeted by his
landlady, Mrs Roberts
1:04 --- Mrs Roberts sees Oswald standing near the curb in front of
the rooming house, after changing his clothes in his room.
1:06 --- About a mile away from the rooming house Helen Markham sees
Tippit shot
1:09 --- Domingo Benavides uses Tippit's police radio to report the
shooting
1:10 --- T F Bowley uses Tippit's police radio to report shooting
1: 12--- Lt Day arrives at the DPD and Hill meets him near the front
door
1:14 --- Ted Callaway uses Tippit's police car radio to report the
shooting and says "THE OFFICER IS DEAD" and says that ambulance was
arriving at that time.
1:14 --- Sgt Gerald Hill hears Ted Callaway's radio transmission
mentioning the dead officer, and decides to go to the scene of the
shooting ( The ONLY radio transmission by a citizen that said the
officer was dead was Callaway's @ 1:14
1:15 --- Ambulance arrives and picks up Tippit for transport to
Methodist Hospital
1: 18 -- Sgt Hill meets ambulance near the intersection of N.Beckley
and Colorado( about 1 1/4 miles from 10th and Patton) transporting
Tippit to Methodist Hospital with Officer's Davenport and Barden
following the ambulance in their police cruiser.
Lee Oswald could not have traveled on foot, the mile, from the
rooming
house to 10th and Patton in two minutes. Therefore, Oswald was NOT
the person who shot J.D.Tippit.
Walt
> "Chuck Schuyler" <chu...@am-mtg.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5f69daa9-d244-49dd...@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 12, 4:23 pm, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Go to google maps, Walt. They will tell you the distance between
> > any two intersections you enter. In that way we don`t have to rely on
> > an idiot holding a ruler up to his monitor.
>
> Bud:
>
> Don't give him any ideas.
>
> Remember that you are talking about a guy (Walt) that built a
> CARDBOARD model of Dealey Plaza to get to the bottom of the JFK
> 'mystery'.
>
> HERE is what a scale model of Dealy Plaza looks like chuckie;
>
> http://whokilledjfk.net/catch_of_the_day.htm
>
> Heck of a LOT better than the "House of Cards" of the WCR.
The scale model I built was about 3 or 4 times bigger than the model
shown in that photo. The model I built was big enough that a person
could look down toward the triple underpass from behind the sixth
floor window. I had punched a small hole in the cardboard at the
location of the SE sixth floor window. I used to get a kick outta the
expressions of disbelief when I moved a small car along Elm street in
the area where the shooting ocurred. They'd say " Hey!!....I can't
see...that tree's in the way"...
Walt
> "MRS. MARKHAM'S BUS":
>
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/0df00899...
>
> ====================================================
>
> >>> "Do you really believe that Bowley arrived on the scene at 1:10 (that's his sworn statement) but waited SIX minutes before he called the dispatcher??" <<<
>
> Of course not. Only the conspiracy-seeking kooks of the world would be
> silly enough to wholly and religiously rely on the time estimates
> given by witnesses, while ignoring the mountain of "OSWALD POSITIVELY
> KILLED TIPPIT" evidence at the same time.
>
> You knew better than to ask a non-kook that last question, didn't you
> Walt?
>
> >>> "He {T.F. Bowley} took a quick look and grabbed Tippit's radio and reported that an officer had been shot at 404 East 10th Street. He didn't stand around pickin' his nose for six minutes." <<<
>
> SEGUE TIME (this is slightly "Off-Topic", but it's kinda related in a
> sense too):
>
> I think this would be a good time for me to again bring up the
> assassination sub-topic of Lee Harvey Oswald supposedly staying in his
> shoebox-sized rented room at 1026 N. Beckley Avenue for "3 or 4
> minutes" on 11/22/63 (per Earlene Roberts' Warren Commission
> testimony).
Earlene Roberts was there.... You were not---- She said Lee arrived at
the roominghouse at 1:00 or a minute or two later. She said he was in
his room for 3 or 4 minutes. And she said he was in a hurry when he
left the room, BUT when she looked outside a minute or so later he was
NO LONGER in a hurry, because she saw him STANDING ( NOT RUNNING OR
WALKING) near the curb in front of the roominghouse.
Mrs. Roberts said that in the 3 or 4 minutes that Lee was in his room
a police car stopped in front of the rooming house and the driver
tooted the horn twice. The logical explanation for Lee to have been
in a hurry when he left his room but no longer in a hurry when he was
STANDING near the curb was because he knew someone was waiting for him
to change his clothes.
While changing his clothes he also heard the Police car horn, and saw
the police car at the curb. He hastily finished changing his clothes,
and left the room while donning a white jacket. When he got outside
the police car was gone, so he stood at the curb looking for it.
tomnln
"Todd W. Vaughan" <twvaug...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:81d22e00-9330-4b78...@x30g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 12, 11:17 pm, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> "Chuck Schuyler" <chu...@am-mtg.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5f69daa9-d244-49dd...@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 12, 4:23 pm, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Go to google maps, Walt. They will tell you the distance between
> > any two intersections you enter. In that way we don`t have to rely on
> > an idiot holding a ruler up to his monitor.
>
> Bud:
>
> Don't give him any ideas.
>
> Remember that you are talking about a guy (Walt) that built a
> CARDBOARD model of Dealey Plaza to get to the bottom of the JFK
> 'mystery'.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> HERE is what a scale model of Dealy Plaza looks like chuckie;
>
> http://whokilledjfk.net/catch_of_the_day.htm
I see Lane and Evica. Who else is there? IS that Freddy Mercury on the
far right?
****************************************
NOT as well read as you claim to be I see toad.
****************************************
Walt
> "MRS. MARKHAM'S BUS":
>
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/0df00899...
>
>
> >>> "Do you really believe that Bowley arrived on the scene at 1:10 (that's his sworn statement) but waited SIX minutes before he called the dispatcher??" <<<
>
> Of course not. Only the conspiracy-seeking kooks of the world would be
> silly enough to wholly and religiously rely on the time estimates
> given by witnesses, while ignoring the mountain of "OSWALD POSITIVELY
> KILLED TIPPIT" evidence at the same time.
>
> You knew better than to ask a non-kook that last question, didn't you
> Walt?
>
> >>> "He {T.F. Bowley} took a quick look and grabbed Tippit's radio and reported that an officer had been shot at 404 East 10th Street. He didn't stand around pickin' his nose for six minutes." <<<
>
> SEGUE TIME (this is slightly "Off-Topic", but it's kinda related in a
> sense too):
>
> I think this would be a good time for me to again bring up the
> assassination sub-topic of Lee Harvey Oswald supposedly staying in his
> shoebox-sized rented room at 1026 N. Beckley Avenue for "3 or 4
> minutes" on 11/22/63 (per Earlene Roberts' Warren Commission
> testimony).
Gimme a break!!..... Here you are offering ter half-assed OPINION
like it's worth considering. Yer opinions,, like yer appearance are
unimpressive.
Roberts said Lee was in his room for three or four minutes.... He was
changing his clothes, so her estimate is very reasonable....unlike yer
OPINION.
Bud
You assume it is the same bus. When does the driver get a break,
grab a cup of coffee, take a leak? Could be a different bus with a
fresh driver leave 5-10 minutes before the northbound bus arrives.
> > > The next bus leaves Kingsley about 2:00, �probably
> > > > reaching her stop at 2:25, dropping her off on Main at 2:35, making
> > > > her late.). In ant case, the schedule says it takes this bus ten
> > > > minutes to reach Saner from Kingsley (putting the bus there at 1:11,
> > > > with only 4 minutes left to reach Markham`s stop at the time she gave.
> > > > A glance at the bus route map will tell anyone that isn`t possible),
> > > > and google maps put the distance between Kingsley and Lancaster to
> > > > Saner and Lancaster to be 1.9 miles. So, it takes this bus 10 minutes
> > > > to go roughly 2 miles.
> >
> > > That's because the bus stopped at the Veterans hospital for a few
> > > minutes
> >
> > <snicker> Where did you get this information from? Your ass?
>
> The map clearly shows that the bus route goes through the private
> drive in front of the Va hospital. Why do you thnk it went to the
> front door of the hospital?? Why not just drive right by on
> Lancaster??
So the bus arrives at the VA hospital ten minutes after it leaves
Kingsley. If it takes longer to load walking wounded, it only makes it
less likely to get to Markham`s stop at the time she gave.
Google estimates that it takes 13 minutes to get from Kingley and
Lancaster to Patton and Jefferson. That is by taking a better, more
direct route in a car. No way a bus stopping to pick up and let off
pasengers taking a less direct route gets there nearly as fast. It`s
evident that the bus just couldn`t get to her stop at the time she
gave.
Walt
No Dud....I don't "assume" it's the same bus......And you know it
a;so, because here's whar you posted yesterday......
Quote.."The next bus leaves Kingsley about 2:00, probably reaching
her stop at 2:25, dropping her off on Main at 2:35"..... unquote
Just a quick glance at the schedule reveals that there is no bus
departing for the outbound trip any time close to 2:35. The next bus
departing is at 3:00pm
Do you think the bus just sat in Downtown Dallas idling for 25
minutes?? That doesn't make sense....The bus that left at 1:01, took
about 1/2 hour to travel in-bound from Kingsley and Lancaster to Field
and Main. It then departed out-bound at 1:30. Thanks again for
posting that schedule which shows that Mrs Markham knew what time she
caught that bus as it passed through Oakcliff.
She said that she had left he home a minute or two before she reached
the corner of 10th and Patton at about 1:06. As she waited to cross
the street she saw a pedestrian shoot the police officer.
Sooner or later yer gonna hafta face the facts and admit that Oswald
could not have been that pedestrian.
> > > > > � � � �http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do;jsessioni...Hide quoted text -
David Von Pein
And she also said this (which the kooks want to ignore I suppose):
Bud
I expect there was a bus depot in town. But I know where I go
shopping is the end of the line for several routes, and the buses are
lined up waiting to start another run. Some sit for quite a while.
I`ve never seen a bus finish a run to the end of the line, and go
right back out.
>That doesn't make sense....The bus that left at 1:01, took
> about 1/2 hour to travel in-bound from Kingsley and Lancaster to Field
> and Main. It then departed out-bound at 1:30.
Again, that is only an unsupported assumption. You would have the
same bus leaving Kingsley at around nine, getting to Main around nine-
thirty, going right back to Kingsley around ten and so on all day
long. When does it gas up, when does the driver piss?
> Thanks again for
> posting that schedule which shows that Mrs Markham knew what time she
> caught that bus as it passed through Oakcliff.
What it shows is that the bus could not be at her stop at the time
she gave. It gives the time it takes to reach one destination, and
that is ten minutes to Saner. That puts this bus at Saner at 1:11. It
can`t get to Markham`s stop in only four more minutes.
> She said that she had left he home a minute or two before she reached
> the corner of 10th and Patton at about 1:06. As she waited to cross
> the street she saw a pedestrian shoot the police officer.
A "pedestrian" she selected out of a line-up... Oswald.
> Sooner or later yer gonna hafta face the facts and admit that Oswald
> could not have been that pedestrian.
It could be no one else.
Walt
I'll Bet ya a sawbuck that the driver left the bus at the VA hospital
to use the restroom.
>
> > Thanks again for
> > posting that schedule which shows that Mrs Markham knew what time she
> > caught that bus as it passed through Oakcliff.
>
> What it shows is that the bus could not be at her stop at the time
> she gave. It gives the time it takes to reach one destination, and
> that is ten minutes to Saner. That puts this bus at Saner at 1:11. It
> can`t get to Markham`s stop in only four more minutes.
Let me see if I understand you.... You think that Oswald could travel
on foot the mile from the rooming house to the site of Tippit's murder
in just two minutes but you don't think it's possible for a bus to
cover a mile in 4 minutes....Is that what yer sayin?? I gotta tell
ya Dud... Yer lookin mire and more like a man outta touch with
reality.... Perhaps you should see a shrink.
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
Bud
You don`t seem to understand that these things you are throwing in
only add time to the trip, when you need to remove time from the trip
to get this bus to Markham`s stop at the time she gave.
I went to the DART (Dallas Area Rapid Transit) site and planned a
trip from Kingley and Lancaster to Patton and Jefferson. The best bus
available these days to make that trip is the route 444, which takes a
slightly different route then the old 55, and has a stop a few blocks
from Patton and Jefferson. It gives the time to make this trip as 28
minutes. I don`t imagine buses were faster in `63.
> > > Thanks again for
> > > posting that schedule which shows that Mrs Markham knew what time she
> > > caught that bus as it passed through Oakcliff.
> >
> > What it shows is that the bus could not be at her stop at the time
> > she gave. It gives the time it takes to reach one destination, and
> > that is ten minutes to Saner. That puts this bus at Saner at 1:11. It
> > can`t get to Markham`s stop in only four more minutes.
>
> Let me see if I understand you.... You think that Oswald could travel
> on foot the mile from the rooming house to the site of Tippit's murder
> in just two minutes
No, I understand that the times you are working from are
unestablished. I know you are grasping at these mushy, enestablished
times when better more reliable times are available because you are
engaged in some sort of reality aversion game.
> but you don't think it's possible for a bus to
> cover a mile in 4 minutes....Is that what yer sayin??
As I pointed out to you, the bus need to travel 3 miles on the road
to reach Patton and Jefferson from Saner and Lancaster.
That is the distance the bus needs to travel. Google maps
estimates it will take 9 minutes to make the trip, and that is a
normal vehicle, not a bus stopping every so often to let people on and
off. Since the bus at Saner at 1:11 can`t make it to Markhma`s stop by
1:15, the time she said the bus got there was wrong, it`s as simple as
that. !:15 is likely the time she tried to be at the bus stop, not
when she boarded the bus.
> I gotta tell
> ya Dud... Yer lookin mire and more like a man outta touch with
> reality.... Perhaps you should see a shrink.
Any information that goes against your preconceived notions just
doesn`t show on your radar, does it Walt?
Herbert Blenner
> "MRS. MARKHAM'S BUS":
>
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/0df00899...
>
>
> >>> "Do you really believe that Bowley arrived on the scene at 1:10 (that's his sworn statement) but waited SIX minutes before he called the dispatcher??" <<<
>
> Of course not. Only the conspiracy-seeking kooks of the world would be
> silly enough to wholly and religiously rely on the time estimates
> given by witnesses, while ignoring the mountain of "OSWALD POSITIVELY
> KILLED TIPPIT" evidence at the same time.
>
> You knew better than to ask a non-kook that last question, didn't you
> Walt?
>
> >>> "He {T.F. Bowley} took a quick look and grabbed Tippit's radio and reported that an officer had been shot at 404 East 10th Street. He didn't stand around pickin' his nose for six minutes." <<<
What evidence do you have that Bowley really made the transmission and
related the 404 Tenth Street address? The dictabelt reports that
neither the dispatcher nor units acted as if they heard the crime
scene address. Instead they wasted minutes discussing the wrong
addresses.
The following wave file is 2.9 MB and may take awhile to download.
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/tippit.wav
Herbert
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/tippit.wav
David Von Pein
Oh, good Lord.
T.F. Bowley HIMSELF confirms this. And Benavides' testimony
corroborates it. ......
"When I got there the first thing I did was try to help the
officer. He appeared beyond help to me. A man was trying to use the
radio in the squad car but stated he didn't know how to operate it. I
know how and took the radio from him. I said, "Hello, operator. A
police officer has been shot here." The dispatcher asked for the
location. I found out the location and told the dispatcher what it
was."
/s/ T. F. Bowley
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bowley.htm
BENAVIDES (to WC) -- "Then he started to--then I don't know what he
said; but I put the radio back. I mean, the microphone back up, and
this other guy was standing there, so I got up out of the car, and I
don't know, I wasn't sure if he heard me, and the other guy sat down
in the car."
Herbert Blenner
You can snip but you cannot hide from the dictabelt or its transcript.
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0445a.htm
Perhaps you can explain why the addresses of 501 East Tenth Street and
501 East Jefferson were floating around after Bowley gave the crime
scene address as 404 Tenth Street. Without doubt every operating
receiver on channel-I would have heard this address with the same
clarity as recorded on the dictabelt. More important during following
minutes nobody mentioned 404 Tenth Street as a relevant address. The
dictabelt itself becomes the best evidence that nobody heard the
conversation between the dispatcher and Bowley. In fact ignoring the
Bowley and the later Callaway conversations with the dispatcher make
the transcript and the dictabelt appear as reasonable documents of
partial conversations that included communications by radio and
omitted communications by telephone.
For convenience of those who are not afraid of the evidence post the
link to the wave file.
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/tippit.wav
Herbert
David Von Pein
Who the fuck cares?
WAS Tippit shot on Jefferson Blvd.?
aeffects
> >>> "Perhaps you can explain why the addresses of 501 East Tenth Street and 501 East Jefferson were floating around after Bowley gave the crime scene address as 404 Tenth Street." <<<
>
> Who the fuck cares?
David, your getting sensitive, son... Bugliosi does not like that in
his minions.
From your current attitude and disposition can we take that to mean
you haven't shared in wealth the OTHER Reclaiming History
"ghostwriters" appear to have?
David Von Pein
What "ghostwriters", kook?
aeffects
> What "ghostwriters", kook?
duh, kook! Those that assisted your focus of idolatry. The ones that
made a few bucks re RH, perhaps they knew how to ask, eh?
Bud
It took a while, by the kooks have finally realized that Bugliosi`s
book has won the day. They just can`t write a book using the known
information and weave it into a coherant package. RH commands the
field, and will sit on bookshelves in libraries for decades, available
for those folks interested in discovering the only real way this event
could have occurred, and exposing all the conspiracy mongers as
charlatans and frauds.
Bud
When kooks look at the evidence, these are the things they consider
significant. That explains why they are where they are.
David Von Pein
Yes, indeedy, Bud.
I suppose Herbert's theory (speculation) is that the "Jefferson"
reference in the DPD logs is meant to somehow point the police FASTER
in the direction of Patsy Oswald, who was, indeed, arrested on
"Jefferson" shortly after the Tippit murder, which happened not on
Jefferson, but on 10th.
But the Occam's-like explanation is that the DPD simply received
conflicting initial reports as to the exact address of the Tippit
shooting, with somebody putting in a "Jefferson" report, and others
the "10th" references.
Plus, since we know that Oswald was last seen running/walking on
"Jefferson", this probably added to that location confusion.
Walt
> On Mar 14, 1:00 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > >>> "What evidence do you have that Bowley really made the transmission and related the 404 Tenth Street address?" <<<
>
> > Oh, good Lord.
>
> > T.F. Bowley HIMSELF confirms this. And Benavides' testimony
> > corroborates it. ......
>
> > "When I got there the first thing I did was try to help the
> > officer. He appeared beyond help to me. A man was trying to use the
> > radio in the squad car but stated he didn't know how to operate it. I
> > know how and took the radio from him. I said, "Hello, operator. A
> > police officer has been shot here." The dispatcher asked for the
> > location. I found out the location and told the dispatcher what it
> > was."
>
> > /s/ T. F. Bowley
>
> >http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bowley.htm
>
> > BENAVIDES (to WC) -- "Then he started to--then I don't know what he
> > said; but I put the radio back. I mean, the microphone back up, and
> > this other guy was standing there, so I got up out of the car, and I
> > don't know, I wasn't sure if he heard me, and the other guy sat down
> > in the car."
>
> >http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/benavide.htm
>
> You can snip but you cannot hide from the dictabelt or its transcript.
>
>
> Perhaps you can explain why the addresses of 501 East Tenth Street and
> 501 East Jefferson were floating around after Bowley gave the crime
> scene address as 404 Tenth Street.
Ted Callaway was the last civilian to use Tippit's radio.... He could
be the source of the wrong address... I believe Hill was confused
about where the shooting had occurred and had to ask the dispatcher a
couple of times, where the shooting had occurred. He heard
Callaway's message "about a minute" after 1:12 ( The time that Lt JC
Day arrived at the TSBD) Hill heard CALLAWAY at about 1:13 / 1:14
tell the dispatcher, on the radio, that he ( callaway) thought that
the officer was "DEAD". Neither benavides nor Bowley said that "I
think he's DEAD".
Why can't the LNer's get it through their thick skulls that the radio
transmission that they attribute to TF Bowley was sent by Ted
Callaway??
Without doubt every operating
> receiver on channel-I would have heard this address with the same
> clarity as recorded on the dictabelt. More important during following
> minutes nobody mentioned 404 Tenth Street as a relevant address. The
> dictabelt itself becomes the best evidence that nobody heard the
> conversation between the dispatcher and Bowley. In fact ignoring the
> Bowley and the later Callaway conversations with the dispatcher make
> the transcript and the dictabelt appear as reasonable documents of
> partial conversations that included communications by radio and
> omitted communications by telephone.
>
> For convenience of those who are not afraid of the evidence post the
> link to the wave file.
>
> http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/tippit.wav
>
> Herbert- Hide quoted text -
Herbert Blenner
Readers can see what David has snipped. I wrote:
Quote on.
Perhaps you can explain why the addresses of 501 East Tenth Street
and
501 East Jefferson were floating around after Bowley gave the crime
scene address as 404 Tenth Street. Without doubt every operating
receiver on channel-I would have heard this address with the same
clarity as recorded on the dictabelt. More important during following
minutes nobody mentioned 404 Tenth Street as a relevant address. The
dictabelt itself becomes the best evidence that nobody heard the
conversation between the dispatcher and Bowley. In fact ignoring the
Bowley and the later Callaway conversations with the dispatcher make
the transcript and the dictabelt appear as reasonable documents of
partial conversations that included communications by radio and
omitted communications by telephone.
For convenience of those who are not afraid of the evidence post the
link to the wave file.
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/tippit.wav
Quote off.
Mr. Von Pein addressed the issue of why everybody acted as if they
never heard the citizen give the location of the crime scene as 404
Tenth Street by the following retorts.
Von Pein on.
Who the fuck cares?
WAS Tippit shot on Jefferson Blvd.?
Von Pein off.
Run, David, run. The dictabelt is gonna get two of your cherished
fables.
Herbert
Walt
Oh you mean the " dark bushy haired", "kinda short and heavy"
Oswald...That Mrs Markham saw running away from the scene?? Is THAT
the Oswald yer talkin about??
Herbert Blenner
According to the dictabelt, a citizen (T. F. Bowley) gave 404 Tenth
Street as the crime scene address and ten as the number of the squad
car. This direct information enabled the dispatcher to immediately
associate Tippit's call number seventy eight with car number ten. Thus
the Dispatcher received a corroborated report by Bowley, which also
included 404 Tenth Street as the crime scene address. Of course this
conclusion assumes that the dictabelt is a true record.
The dictabelt also reveals that an unknown police office interjected
the 510 East Jefferson address into the conversion between the
dispatcher and the Bowley. However, the interjected message was brief
and partially obscured. Without an explicit description of the
interjected address as the crime scene location neither the dispatcher
nor mobile units had basis to ignored the 404 Tenth street address.
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/bowley.wav
More important in the minutes following the conversation between the
dispatcher and Bowley nobody mentioned the 404 Tenth Street address.
It was as if nobody heard the conversation between the dispatcher and
Bowley.
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/tippit.wav
In fact recognizing the Bowley conversation with the dispatcher as an
after the fact "enhancement" of the dictabelt makes transcript and the
dictabelt appear as reasonable documents of partial conversations that
included communications by radio and omitted communications by
telephone.
Herbert
Herbert Blenner
> On 14 Mar, 01:01, Herbert Blenner <a1ea...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 14, 1:00 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > >>> "What evidence do you have that Bowley really made the transmission and related the 404 Tenth Street address?" <<<
>
> > > Oh, good Lord.
>
> > > T.F. Bowley HIMSELF confirms this. And Benavides' testimony
> > > corroborates it. ......
>
> > > "When I got there the first thing I did was try to help the
> > > officer. He appeared beyond help to me. A man was trying to use the
> > > radio in the squad car but stated he didn't know how to operate it. I
> > > know how and took the radio from him. I said, "Hello, operator. A
> > > police officer has been shot here." The dispatcher asked for the
> > > location. I found out the location and told the dispatcher what it
> > > was."
>
> > > /s/ T. F. Bowley
>
> > >http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bowley.htm
>
> > > BENAVIDES (to WC) -- "Then he started to--then I don't know what he
> > > said; but I put the radio back. I mean, the microphone back up, and
> > > this other guy was standing there, so I got up out of the car, and I
> > > don't know, I wasn't sure if he heard me, and the other guy sat down
> > > in the car."
>
> > >http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/benavide.htm
>
> > You can snip but you cannot hide from the dictabelt or its transcript.
>
> >http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0...
>
> > Perhaps you can explain why the addresses of 501 East Tenth Street and
> > 501 East Jefferson were floating around after Bowley gave the crime
> > scene address as 404 Tenth Street.
HB off.
>
DVP on.
> Ted Callaway was the last civilian to use Tippit's radio.... He could
> be the source of the wrong address... I believe Hill was confused
> about where the shooting had occurred and had to ask the dispatcher a
> couple of times, where the shooting had occurred. He heard
> Callaway's message "about a minute" after 1:12 ( The time that Lt JC
> Day arrived at the TSBD) Hill heard CALLAWAY at about 1:13 / 1:14
> tell the dispatcher, on the radio, that he ( callaway) thought that
> the officer was "DEAD". Neither benavides nor Bowley said that "I
> think he's DEAD".
DVP off.
>
Walt on.
> Why can't the LNer's get it through their thick skulls that the radio
> transmission that they attribute to TF Bowley was sent by Ted
> Callaway??
Walt off.
HB on.
>
> Without doubt every operating
>
>
>
> > receiver on channel-I would have heard this address with the same
> > clarity as recorded on the dictabelt. More important during following
> > minutes nobody mentioned 404 Tenth Street as a relevant address. The
> > dictabelt itself becomes the best evidence that nobody heard the
> > conversation between the dispatcher and Bowley. In fact ignoring the
> > Bowley and the later Callaway conversations with the dispatcher make
> > the transcript and the dictabelt appear as reasonable documents of
> > partial conversations that included communications by radio and
> > omitted communications by telephone.
>
> > For convenience of those who are not afraid of the evidence post the
> > link to the wave file.
>
> >http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/tippit.wav
>
HB off.
> > Herbert- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Walt
Thanks for the link to the recording Herbert. I've listened several
times and I hear Callaway's transmission twice.... Or just a short
snippet of it first ( officer, I think he's dead" ) and then a couple
of transmission's later I hear Calloway's complete message. There is
obviously a lot of confusion about where the address shooting
occurred. It's apparent that the dis patcher got the address from at
least two different sources....because he says the address is 510 E.
10th and nobody on the radio gave such an address. He must have been
receiving telephoned messages with different addresses. Hell, he has
the shooting taking place as far away as Denver and Chesapeake.
The MOST INTERESTING transmission is the transmission by the
dispatcher near the end of the tape.... The dispatcher says that the
suspect ( subject) had just been spotted running west on Jefferson at
501 E. Jefferson. This location is only two blocks from the scene
of the shooting. The transmission is at least five minutes ( It's
probably longer) after the shooting, and yet the suspect has only ran
two blocks in the elapsed time. This doesn't make sense.... The
lner's would have us believe that Oswald ran the mile from his rooming
house to the site of the shooting in just two minutes, but then after
the shooting it took him at least five minutesto run just two blocks.
What I believe I'm hearing is an indication that there is an
alteration of the tape. The chronology is screwed up.
Herbert Blenner
Agreed.
Herbert
Walt
Herbert it's very clear that Sgt Gerald Hill ( #19) is in a police car
enroute to the scene of the shooting when he asks for the correct
address. He clearly says "19 enroute". Then a few minutes later DPD
officer #15 says that .."19 will be enroute shortly "..... What the
hell?? Did Sgt. Hill (#19) back up and return to the TSBD??
Bud
How will adding to the already overwhelming bulk of things you are
clueless about help you figure this event out?
Bud
<snicker> Kooks, intent on scouring this evidence for justification
of their suspicions have found... justification for their suspicions!
How could it be otherwise?
Herbert Blenner
We must examine this evidence because the WC told us fables. For
starters, the dictabelt contains no transmission from Benavides
reporting the crime. Next the dictabelt contains a report from T. F.
Bowley, who was not recognized by the WC as a witness. Finally, the
dispatcher and mobile units acted as if they never heard Bowley give
the crime scene address as 404 Tenth Street.
Herbert
Walt
Excellent summation, Herbert.... The information that Oswald was not
the shooter is on that tape but it needs to be put back in the correct
chronological order.
Bud
That isn`t what you are doing, Herbert. You are looking for
justification for your beliefs. And you are finding justification,
aren`t you? As kooks will, no matter what aspect of this case they
look at.
> For
> starters, the dictabelt contains no transmission from Benavides
> reporting the crime. Next the dictabelt contains a report from T. F.
> Bowley, who was not recognized by the WC as a witness. Finally, the
> dispatcher and mobile units acted as if they never heard Bowley give
> the crime scene address as 404 Tenth Street.
In what meaningful way have you established that the everything
should fall into place with no contradiction and descrepancies
comparing testimony of events with the tapes? Have you studied similar
crimes and radio traffic, do you have any idea what to expect to find?
Aren`t you looking to answer all question with precision looking at
brief comments on a tape and witness recollections? Isn`t only the tip
the iceberg you are looking at, isn`t it futile to try to reconstruct
such a complex event with dozens of people taking action using such a
small base of information (one small example... you and Walt mentioned
the delay in the report of the shooter on Jefferson. The Davis girls
went to the door, and then went to their phone to call it in. Who took
this call, how long did it take that person to put the information on
the air. It isn`t up to LN to smooth out all difficulties and provide
all answers, it`s up to you kooks to supply the extraordinary support
for the amazing occurances you imagine)? Are what you and Walt really
engaged in only the same game kooks have been playing with information
for decades?
Herbert Blenner
Read my last statement, "Finally, the dispatcher and mobile units
acted as if they never heard Bowley give the crime scene address as
404 Tenth Street" and explain how this involves a comparison of
testimony with the tape of the dictabelt. The answer is you have no
explanation so you pretend that I am doing something else.
I suggest you familiarize yourself with the evidence. The addresses
that were floating around after the citizen specified 404 Tenth Street
as the location of the crime scene belonged to witnesses of the
gunfire who called in reports to the police. In particular 510 East
Jefferson was the address of the Reynolds Motor Company and 400 East
Tenth Street was the residence of Barbara and Jeanette Davis and the
businesses address for Ted Callaway and Sam Guinyard was 501 East
Jefferson.
So you have three separate reports of hearing gunfire by citizens who
gave their addresses and your sorrow excuse for the contents of the
dictabelt requires receivers of the messages to make three separate
blunders of confusing the addresses of the reporters with the location
of the shooting.
Walt
BS!!.... Dud if I can spot the problems of the ommissions and
alterations of the chronology.... Do you really think the Lawyers
with the Warren Commission couldn't have seen them?? Unless they DID
see the problems in the original tapes and witness reports...... and
then asvised the DPD about altering those tapes, "transcripts", and
after action reports (Davenport and Barden)
Walt
YES!!....As a matter of the constitution it's up to you to "smooth
out" ( prove) that Oswald murdered JD Tippit. So far you haven't
showed any irrefutable proof..... I'd suggest the ONLY piece of
evidence that you have is the fact that Tippit apparently was killed
with .38 caliber gun that fired untracable bullets. At the time of
his arrest, Oswald apparently had a .38 caliber revolver in his
possession that fired untracable bullets. That's it! You have
nothing else...... And, I'd remind you that simply because Oswald had
a gun that fired untracable bullets does NOT mean that it was the gun
that killed J.D.Tippit.
On the other hand.... We know that Oswald could NOT have traveled on
foot from the rooming house to the site of the killing in just two
minutes.
And..... The only two witnesses (Markham and Benavides) who actually
saw the killer in the act of shooting Tippit described a man who was
NOT Lee Oswald. One of them was never called to view a line up of
suspects ( Benavides) and the other ( Markham) was so hysterical when
she viewed the line-up that the cops could have had Tippit's brother
in the line-up and persuaded her to finger him as the killer.
Bud
I know what you are doing, Herbert, it`s the usual kook thing. You
now demand that I iron out all difficulties, or you get to entertain
stupidity. I`ve noticed from time to time errors creep into the text
of your responses, Herbert (they kick down the front door down in
mine, but thats another story). What chance does a third party have to
explain how you came to make those errors, Herbert? It`s a stupid
game played by idiots, is all.
> I suggest you familiarize yourself with the evidence.
I am familiar with how you kooks think, and that is all that is
needed to know with these issues.
> The addresses
> that were floating around after the citizen specified 404 Tenth Street
> as the location of the crime scene belonged to witnesses of the
> gunfire who called in reports to the police. In particular 510 East
> Jefferson was the address of the Reynolds Motor Company and 400 East
> Tenth Street was the residence of Barbara and Jeanette Davis and the
> businesses address for Ted Callaway and Sam Guinyard was 501 East
> Jefferson.
I would suggest that maybe the dispatcher were receiving calls over
the phone, and mistook the route the escaping shooter (Oswald) was
taking with the scene of the crime, or someone misheard, or someone
misrepeated information, or dozens of other ordinary ways information
can be garbled or messed up. The information may not be available to
determine the cause of these difficulties, Herbert. Again, I challenge
you to go look into a few dozen such crimes to familiarize yourself
with the possibilities, and in this way you might have an idea about
the reality of such things.
> So you have three separate reports of hearing gunfire by citizens who
> gave their addresses and your sorrow excuse for the contents of the
> dictabelt requires receivers of the messages to make three separate
> blunders of confusing the addresses of the reporters with the location
> of the shooting.
I`m not making excuses, or attempting to get to the bottom of these
difficulties for you, Herbert. I`m identifying the problem, which once
more is kooks.
Bud
Bud
Due process doesn`t extend to dead people, numbnut.
> So far you haven't
> showed any irrefutable proof.....
There is plenty of information to figure out what occurred. Ten
times as much information wouldn`t do an purposeful idiot like
yourself.
> I'd suggest the ONLY piece of
> evidence that you have is the fact that Tippit apparently was killed
> with .38 caliber gun that fired untracable bullets. At the time of
> his arrest, Oswald apparently had a .38 caliber revolver in his
> possession that fired untracable bullets. That's it! You have
> nothing else......
Actually, that tremedous coincidence should be enough for anyone
really trying to determine what occurred. And of course there is much,
much more than just the gun. A witness to Oz killing Tippit. Witnesses
to Oz with a gun running around Oak Cliff with a gun.Oz`s strange
behavior of ducking into store to avoid the police racing around Oak
Cliff. Oz, looking scared, sneaking into a theater to get out of
sight. Oz assaulting the arresting police, while trying to draw that
gun.
> And, I'd remind you that simply because Oswald had
> a gun that fired untracable bullets does NOT mean that it was the gun
> that killed J.D.Tippit.
Markham and the other Oak Cliff witnesses must have been lucky to
ID a person as being at and running from the crime scene that had such
a gun.
> On the other hand.... We know that Oswald could NOT have traveled on
> foot from the rooming house to the site of the killing in just two
> minutes.
Who thinks he did? A reasonable person would accept that it took him
as long as it took him to get there.
> And..... The only two witnesses (Markham and Benavides) who actually
> saw the killer in the act of shooting Tippit described a man who was
> NOT Lee Oswald.
After careful consideration, Markham identified Oswald as the man
she saw shoot Tippit. Benavides declined to make an Identification.
> One of them was never called to view a line up of
> suspects ( Benavides) and the other ( Markham) was so hysterical when
> she viewed the line-up that the cops could have had Tippit's brother
> in the line-up and persuaded her to finger him as the killer.
Produce anything supporting your claim that Markham was hysterical
when she viewed the line-up.
Walt
Coincidence.....absolutely! There were possibly hundreds of .38
caliber guns in Dallas that fired untracable bullets.
And of course there is much,
> much more than just the gun. A witness to Oz killing Tippit.
Do you mean Helen Markham... who DESCRIBED the killer as "Kinda short"
a "little bit heavy" with "dark bushy hair"
Or do you mean Domingo Benavides who DESCRIBED the killer as having
his hair cut in a fashion that "made the back of his head look flat",
and DESCRIBED his hair as being cut square across the neck at the
shirt collar.
Oswald's mug shot shows that the back of his head is CONICAL and the
hair is TAPERED at the neck.
Witnesses
> to Oz with a gun running around Oak Cliff with a gun.
You have no evidence that the man who was running was Oswald.
Oz`s strange
> behavior of ducking into store to avoid the police racing around Oak
> Cliff.
You have no evidence that the man who ducked into the theater was
Oswald.
Why didn't Captain Fritz ever ask Oswald if he'd bought a ticket???
Oz, looking scared, sneaking into a theater to get out of
> sight. Oz assaulting the arresting police, while trying to draw that
> gun.
This lie really ticks me off.... Anybody with an ounce of integrity
would know that Oswald never attempted to pull the pistol from his
belt.... I've posted the testimonies of all of the cops who were there
at the time as well as the civilians who witnessed the wrestling match
and NONE of then said that Oswald tried to pull the gun on the cops.
>
> > And, I'd remind you that simply because Oswald had
> > a gun that fired untracable bullets does NOT mean that it was the gun
> > that killed J.D.Tippit.
>
> Markham and the other Oak Cliff witnesses must have been lucky to
> ID a person as being at and running from the crime scene that had such
> a gun.
>
> > On the other hand.... We know that Oswald could NOT have traveled on
> > foot from the rooming house to the site of the killing in just two
> > minutes.
>
> Who thinks he did? A reasonable person would accept that it took him
> as long as it took him to get there.
>
>
>
> > And..... The only two
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
Bud
And the man all these witnesses identified just happened to have
such an unusual gun? You are an idiot.
> And of course there is much,
> > much more than just the gun. A witness to Oz killing Tippit.
>
> Do you mean Helen Markham... who DESCRIBED the killer as "Kinda short"
> a "little bit heavy" with "dark bushy hair"
Who said she said those things, Mark Lane? The fact is, she
selected the man she saw out of a line-up. Oswald.
> Or do you mean Domingo Benavides who DESCRIBED the killer as having
> his hair cut in a fashion that "made the back of his head look flat",
> and DESCRIBED his hair as being cut square across the neck at the
> shirt collar.
>
> Oswald's mug shot shows that the back of his head is CONICAL and the
> hair is TAPERED at the neck.
Benavides referred to the man he saw by the name "Oswald".
> Witnesses
> > to Oz with a gun running around Oak Cliff with a gun.
>
> You have no evidence that the man who was running was Oswald.
>
> Oz`s strange
> > behavior of ducking into store to avoid the police racing around Oak
> > Cliff.
>
> You have no evidence that the man who ducked into the theater was
> Oswald.
Other than the witnesses that said he did and the fact that he was
captured inside, none at all.
> Why didn't Captain Fritz ever ask Oswald if he'd bought a ticket???
Bought it from who? And gave the ticket inside to who? And the
ripped stub went where?
> Oz, looking scared, sneaking into a theater to get out of
> > sight. Oz assaulting the arresting police, while trying to draw that
> > gun.
>
> This lie really ticks me off.... Anybody with an ounce of integrity
> would know that Oswald never attempted to pull the pistol from his
> belt....
Witnesses reported a gun in Oswald`s hand.
> I've posted the testimonies of all of the cops who were there
> at the time as well as the civilians who witnessed the wrestling match
> and NONE of then said that Oswald tried to pull the gun on the cops.
Applin said Oz had the gun in his hand. Brewer did. McDonald did.
Chuck Schuyler
<SNIP>
>The dispatcher says that the
> suspect ( subject) had just been spotted running west on Jefferson at
> 501 E. Jefferson. This location is only two blocks from the scene
> of the shooting. The transmission is at least five minutes ( It's
> probably longer) after the shooting, and yet the suspect has only ran
> two blocks in the elapsed time. This doesn't make sense.... The
> lner's would have us believe that Oswald ran the mile from his rooming
> house to the site of the shooting in just two minutes, but then after
> the shooting it took him at least five minutesto run just two blocks.
>
Maybe Rossley shot him.
Walt
Oh you mean like Ted callaway who said the man was carrying a "blue
steel .32 automatic"....
>
>
>
> > And of course there is much,
> > > much more than just the gun. A witness to Oz killing Tippit.
>
> > Do you mean
>
Walt
Oh you mean like Ted Callaway who said the running man was carrying a
"blue steel .32 calber automatic" I'd like to know how Ted Callaway
could discern the caliber of the "blue steel automatic" from 50 or 60
feet away. How did he know the "blue steel automatic" wasn't a .38
caliber???... You probably don't remember that SGT Gerald Hill
specifically radioed the dispatcher and reported that one of the
shells from the scene had been fired from a...Quote...".38
automatic"...unquote.
You are an idiot.
>
>
>
> > And of course there is much,
> > > much more than just the gun. A witness to Oz killing Tippit.
>
> > Do you mean
>
Bud
Where did you get this from?
> I'd like to know how Ted Callaway
> could discern the caliber of the "blue steel automatic" from 50 or 60
> feet away. How did he know the "blue steel automatic" wasn't a .38
> caliber???... You probably don't remember that SGT Gerald Hill
> specifically radioed the dispatcher and reported that one of the
> shells from the scene had been fired from a...Quote...".38
> automatic"...unquote.
Were any automatic bullets found in Tippit? If an automatic was
used, wouldn`t all the shell be found around the patrol car?
tomnln
"Chuck Schuyler" <chu...@am-mtg.com> wrote in message
news:2f8a3170-2f38-47a1...@c33g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
<SNIP>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
chuckie wrote;
Maybe Rossley shot him.
I write;
More than likely, he died of AIDS contracted when he shoved it up Chuckie's
AIDS infected ass.
STILL runnin from these chuckie! ! ! !
http://whokilledjfk.net/PROVEN%20LIES.htm
http://whokilledjfk.net/CASE%20DISMISSED.htm
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Schuyler
> Maybe Rossley shot him.
>
> I write;
>
> More than likely, he died of AIDS contracted when he shoved it up Chuckie's
> AIDS infected ass.
I'll bet that really turns you on, you old queer.
Ellen still dead?
Do all of the nice church people you went to Israel with know about
your man-love fetishes?
Must be nice to have Ellen out of the way so you can sit at home in
your wheelchair, crapping away into your colostomy bag, posting your
male porn smut, counting the days till your social security check
arrives so you can blow it at the bingo hall.
Did you kill Ellen? She probably told you to stop visiting those male
porn sites and JFK assassination boards, and you got mad and strangled
her with the tether from your colostomy bag.
I'll bet you killed her.
Walt
> On Mar 12, 8:46 am, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > For years the time Markham said she caught her bus (1:15) has been
> > considered by the kooks to be a carved in stone, atomic clock verified
> > fact. I`ve always challenged them to produce the bus schedule
> > verifying Markhams statement, but as always, when the kooks are
> > comfortable with a piece of information, that is considered good
> > enough (they aren`t even mildly interested why she is leaving so early
> > to go to her 2:30 job, for instance). I remembered seeing bus
> > schedules in the "Documents" section of the WC report (It`s Commission
> > Document 1128), so I went there last night to see if I could find out
> > details about the bus she took. I found her bus schedule (you`ll need
> > to put the page size at 200% to read them), and although it doesn`t
> > give times for all the stops, it does provide enough information to
> > tell the real time Markham`s bus stopped at her stop (Patton and
> > Jefferson). First, the map of the route. This map shows that the
> > Lancaster bus (55) starts at Kingsley and Lancaster, a bus leaving
> > about every hour during non-peak service. There is a longer route that
> > runss mornings and evenings during rush hour, but that wasn`t in
> > effect midday.
>
> > http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=115...
>
> > Here is the bus schedule for the Lancaster bus. Marham`s work was
> > near the end of the rounte, the Eatwell Diner on Main St. She caught
> > the bus somewhere along Jefferson (with Patton not being shown as a
> > cross street). The departure times are given for buses, they start at
> > Kingsley and Lancaster, and head north (inbound). The bus Markham
> > caught would have to be the one that left at 1:01. The only time given
> > on the schedule is when the bus was scheduled to reach the cross
> > street of Saner. The schedule says to add 10 minutes to that
> > destination from the departure times, meaning it takes the bus 10
> > minutes to reach Saner (There is a similar listing on the outbound
> > side telling how the bus would also take 10 minutes going southbound
> > to reach Jefferson and Ewing from Main... probably close to Markhams
> > trip, showing she only had about a 10 minute bus ride to get to work.
> > Why leave so early? The next bus leaves Kingsley about 2:00, probably
> > reaching her stop at 2:25, dropping her off on Main at 2:35, making
> > her late.). In ant case, the schedule says it takes this bus ten
> > minutes to reach Saner from Kingsley (putting the bus there at 1:11,
> > with only 4 minutes left to reach Markham`s stop at the time she gave.
> > A glance at the bus route map will tell anyone that isn`t possible),
> > and google maps put the distance between Kingsley and Lancaster to
> > Saner and Lancaster to be 1.9 miles. So, it takes this bus 10 minutes
> > to go roughly 2 miles. Markham`s stop at Patton and Jefferson is 5
> > miles from the bus start at Kingsley and Lancaster. If it takes ten
> > minutes to go 2 miles, it would take the bus 25 minutes to go 5 miles.
> > The bus would reach Markham`s stop around 1:26.
>
> > http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do;jsessioni...
>
> Good, commonsense analysis, Bud.
Ha, ha,ha,ha,..... ROTFLMAO! Commonsense?? Neither you nor Dud
have enough commonsense to know you'll get wet if you stand out in the
rain.....
LOOK .... I say Look at the bus schedule and it's COMMONSENSE that the
bus that departs Lancaster and Kingley arrives in downtown Dallas just
before 1:30, so that it can start the outbound run from Main and Field
at 1:30. That's what the schedule says.....
That bus would have been at the intersection of E Jefferson and Patton
at 1:15 where Mrs Markham boarded it everyday. She said that at
about 1:06 she was standing on the corner of 10th and Patton on her
way to catch that 1:15 bus when she saw officer Tippit shot.
If he had been killed at 1:15 as you brainless cover -up abetters say
then Helen Markham would not even have been there.... She would have
been getting on the bus a couple of blocks away at 1:15.
Since she was on the way to catch that 1:15 bus, the time she gave for
the shooting (1:06) is correct. All other times that witnesses gave
corroborates Helen Markham's estimate for the time of Tippit's
death.
THAT'S Commonsense Choke........
David Von Pein
FOR THE THICK-HEADED AMONG US:
==============================
Markham identified LHO as Tippit's killer. And so did several other
witnesses.
Markham identified LHO as Tippit's killer. And so did several other
witnesses.
Markham identified LHO as Tippit's killer. And so did several other
witnesses.
Markham identified LHO as Tippit's killer. And so did several other
witnesses.
Markham identified LHO as Tippit's killer. And so did several other
witnesses.
The gun that LHO had ON HIM when he was arrested was proven to be the
Tippit murder weapon.
The gun that LHO had ON HIM when he was arrested was proven to be the
Tippit murder weapon.
The gun that LHO had ON HIM when he was arrested was proven to be the
Tippit murder weapon.
The gun that LHO had ON HIM when he was arrested was proven to be the
Tippit murder weapon.
The gun that LHO had ON HIM when he was arrested was proven to be the
Tippit murder weapon.
Walt
> FOR THE THICK-HEADED AMONG US:
>
> ==============================
>
> Markham identified LHO as Tippit's killer. And so did several other
> witnesses.
Just minutes after the shooting, she DESCRIBED the killer as.." Kinda
short and heavy" with "dark bushy hair"
Oswald was 5'9" tall and slender....
>
> The gun that LHO had ON HIM when he was arrested was proven to be the Tippit murder weapon.
Why must you lie?.... You know damned well that FBI ballistics expert
Cunningham testified under oath that the short barreled revolver was
INCAPABLE of producing a bullet that could be ballistically traced to
that gun. Only a fool would lie in the face of the facts.
Walt
Duhhhhd.... A .38 bullet ( projectile) is a .38 bullet no matter what
case (Shell) it is inserted in make up the CARTRIDGE. A .38 caliber
projectile is exactly the same bullet no matter if it is in an
automatic cartridge or a revolver cartridge. So in answer to yer dumb
question......"Were any automatic bullets found in Tippit?" the answer
is.... YES!,.... any, or all of them could have been fired from a .38
automatic.
Walt
This isn't about "due process" .... It's about truth and justice and
morality.
It's not at all unusual for a man to be exonerated for some crime that
he was convicted of sometimes decades after the poor man died in
prison.
He had been given "due process" while alive but had received "justice"
decades later. How many black men are lying in their graves after
having been hanged for a crime that they never committed??
tomnln
Ellen still dead?
*************************************
You seem to be more interested in me than your own evidence/testimony.
You're the typical Coward who attacks women/children.
You're also the typical terrorist who RUNS from evidence/testimony
http://whokilledjfk.net/PROVEN%20LIES.htm
http://whokilledjfk.net/CASE%20DISMISSED.htm
Which one are you in lowery's penis collection Faggot?>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/tom_lowery.htm
*********************************************************************************************
curtjester1
wrote:
> On Mar 12, 4:40 pm, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Bud wrote:
> > > Walt wrote:
>
> > > Go to google maps, Walt. They will tell you the distance between
> > > any two intersections you enter. In that way we don`t have to rely on
> > > an idiot holding a ruler up to his monitor.
>
> > > >.It's about 1.9 miles from
> > > > Lancaster and Saner to Jefferson and Patton.....
>
> > > More like three.
>
> > > >and it's less than a
> > > > mile from Lancaster and Kingsley to Lancaster and Saner.
>
> > > Almost two.
>
> > > > The total
> > > > distance from Kingsley and Lancaster, to Patton And Jefferson, is
> > > > about 3 miles.
>
> > > Five miles. I`ll see if I can paste the information for you....
>
> > >http://maps.google.com/maps?daddr=S+Lancaster+Rd+%26+Kingsley+Dr%2C+D...
>
> "Looking at this, I think I can see the cause for the descrepancies
> between my distances and Walt`s. He is giving "as the crow flies" type
> distances, while google maps is giving the distances needed to travel
> to get from one place to another. Since a city bus is not a
> helicopter, but stuck on the roads, it`s the distances it has to
> travel on those roads that is relevant to this discussion. Also, I
> notice that google maps gives a different route then the Lancaster bus
> goes. Google maps gives the most efficient route, whereas a bus is
> constrained to the route it has assigned to it. One last thing... I
> noticed that when I hit "reverse directions", it gave a longer (6.6
> miles), but quicker (12 minutes) route going the opposite way."
>
> Bud you can SPIN this anyway you want, and it is obvious to all that
> is what you are attempting to do, but Markham testified to to the fact
> her bus arrived at 1:15 p.m. and you can't change that. The WC went
> and messed things up by claiming JDT was shot at 1:16 p.m. so blame
> them, but the point is she would have been on her bus at the time of
> the shooting per the WC, and NO WHERE near 10th and Patton. You can
> kick and scream all you want, but you can't change this.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > Do you think it took a city transit bus 25 minutes
> > > > to go 3 miles??
>
> > > No, I think you haven`t got the anything right yet.
>
> > > > ROTFLMAO....7 MPH... Is this what's known as RAPID
> > > > transit??
>
> > > > Was Dallas still using horse drawn street cars in 1963??
>
> > > > So, it takes this bus 10 minutes
> > > > > to go roughly 2 miles. Markham`s stop at Patton and Jefferson is 5
> > > > > miles from the bus start at Kingsley and Lancaster. If it takes ten
> > > > > minutes to go 2 miles, it would take the bus 25 minutes to go 5 miles.
> > > > > The bus would reach Markham`s stop around 1:26.
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
She left her abode at 1:04 as she was able to see a clock in her
laundryroom. So, when she arrived on the scene and told a specific
time to be there, the Tippit murder scene at 10th and Patton, she had
walked the one block from her house to get there, which would have put
her there precisely before 1:06 and 1:07 prior to the murder taking
place.
The bus schedule was I believe for 1:12, and would have coincided with
one walking to a busstop, another one block away, and giving a five
minute buffer to when to get picked up. As far as when she got to
work...Bud's 2:30, who cares? Sometimes buses take forever to get to
a destination, and sometimes people will get there way early because
another latter bus will put them over or too close to the work time.
(I remember a bus to work in NJ that I took was about an hour and a
half both ways...I had to get a transfer onto another line to get to
the workplace.)
CJ
Walt
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> She left her abode at 1:04 as she was able to see a clock in her
> laundryroom. So, when she arrived on the scene and told a specific
> time to be there, the Tippit murder scene at 10th and Patton, she had
> walked the one block from her house to get there, which would have put
> her there precisely before 1:06 and 1:07 prior to the murder taking
> place.
>
> The bus schedule was I believe for 1:12, and would have coincided with
> one walking to a busstop, another one block away, and giving a five
> minute buffer to when to get picked up. As far as when she got to
> work...Bud's 2:30, who cares? Sometimes buses take forever to get to
> a destination, and sometimes people will get there way early because
> another latter bus will put them over or too close to the work time.
> (I remember a bus to work in NJ that I took was about an hour and a
> half both ways...I had to get a transfer onto another line to get to
> the workplace.)
When Markham testified before the Warren Commission she said she
caught the bus at 1:15. Without a doubt she would have left her
residence early enough to be at the bus stop a few minutes before the
sheduled arrival of the bus. So her estimate of 1:06 is a very
reasonable estimate as the time she saw Tippit shot. If she hadn't
been delayed by the shooting she would have been at the bus stop about
1:10, which would put her at the bus stop about 5 minutes before the
scheduled arrival of the bus.
I hate to admit it but I'm grateful to Dud for posting the bus
schedule which clearly shows that Markham was correct when she said
Tippit was shot at about 1:06.
>
> CJ- Hide quoted text -
Chuck Schuyler
>
> Why must you lie?.... You know damned well that FBI ballistics expert
> Cunningham testified under oath that the short barreled revolver was
> INCAPABLE of producing a bullet that could be ballistically traced to
> that gun. Only a fool would lie in the face of the facts.
What about Nicol? He matched one of the four bullets to Oswald's
pistol, and four cartridge
cases were matched definitively to the pistol. End of story.
Of course, you know the evidence, and you know this. Instead of being
a man and admitting Oswald is a cop killer, you do everything in your
power to keep alive your position of Head Kook in the Lee Harvey
Oswald Fan Club.
What else do you need to see that LHO is a murderer?
Even if you don't buy Nicols' analysis (I'm sure you find that
suspicious, too) the recovered cartridge cases are a match to the
Oswald pistol.
Another coincidence:
The Oswald pistol had been re-worked and produced uneven strike marks
on the type of ammo recovered from Tippit...and the ammo recovered
from Tippit had uneven strike marks on it.
Explain that.
Bud
Better times then the ones she gave are available. If Tippit was
shot at 1:06, calls wouldn`t take 7-8 minutes to start coming in about
this crime.
> The bus schedule was I believe for 1:12,
The bus stops at a stop around two miles alway at 1:11. Ulikely it
travels 2 miles in a minute.
> and would have coincided with
> one walking to a busstop, another one block away, and giving a five
> minute buffer to when to get picked up. As far as when she got to
> work...Bud's 2:30, who cares?
<snicker> It was the time she gave, not one I gave.
> Sometimes buses take forever to get to
> a destination,
Her work was around a mile away. About a ten minute ride.
> and sometimes people will get there way early because
> another latter bus will put them over or too close to the work time.
Yah, that is why Markham took this bus. But it couldn`t get to her
stop at 1:15. It would have been after 1:20, likely 1:25.
> (I remember a bus to work in NJ that I took was about an hour and a
> half both ways...I had to get a transfer onto another line to get to
> the workplace.)
Markham`s work was close enough to walk to. But a waitress on her
feet all day might not want to.
> CJ
Bud
You have no doubts about the rpactices of a woman you know little
about? You are an idiot.
> So her estimate of 1:06 is a very
> reasonable estimate as the time she saw Tippit shot.
No, it`s not, the reports of the shooting would have started coming
in much sooner if this were true.
> If she hadn't
> been delayed by the shooting she would have been at the bus stop about
> 1:10, which would put her at the bus stop about 5 minutes before the
> scheduled arrival of the bus.
Likely the 1:15 time she gave was when she liked to be at her stop
for the 1:25ish bus. There is no telling if she heard, understood and
gave a considered answer to the question posed to her about when she
caught the bus.
> I hate to admit it but I'm grateful to Dud for posting the bus
> schedule which clearly shows that Markham was correct when she said
> Tippit was shot at about 1:06.
What I showed was that her bus couldn`t get to her stop by 1:15.
Bud
OK, now you are on record making a claim. Lets see you back it up.
Produce a Remington Peters automatic .38 bullet and a R-P revolver
bullet with identical slugs. Or Winchester-Western.
robcap...@netscape.com
> DVP SAID:
>
"Do you DENY that Helen Markham saw Tippit being murdered, Mr. Kook?"
It is NOT me denying it, but rather three other witnesses who said
they don't remember seeing her there.
"ROB-NUTCASE THEN UTTERED (without bothering to fully read what was
written above):
> >>> "Of course, because ALL the physical evidence proves he did NOT shoot Tippit." <<<
DVP NOW RETORTS:
Oh, good! Now Rob seems to be of the opinion that J.D. Tippit was not
shot at all (by ANYBODY) on Nov. 22."
I said the evidence does NOT show LHO to be the shooter, of course JDT
was shot. Get with it.
robcap...@netscape.com
> >>> "Earlene Roberts was there. You were not. She said Lee arrived at the roominghouse at 1:00 or a minute or two later. She said he was in his room for 3 or 4 minutes." <<<
"And she also said this (which the kooks want to ignore I suppose):
"Just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and
put it on and he went out zipping it.""
Dave,
What about this odd exchange during her testimony?
Mr. BALL. You Say that you saw Lee Oswald---you say he didn't come
home Thursday night that week?
Mrs. ROBERTS. He didn't come home on Thursday night that week.
Mr. BALL. And Friday was the day the President was shot? Had you seen
him at any time that Friday before the officers came up and knocked on
your door?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No.
Mr. BALL. Hadn't he been home?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Oh, let's see--that was the day.
Mr. BALL. That was on a Friday---
Mrs. ROBERTS. Wait a minute, let me think of it.
Mr. BALL. That's on a Friday.
Mrs. ROBERTS. I had better back up a minute---he came home that Friday
in an unusual hurry.
Am I the only one who finds this odd? It seems she did not remember
seeing him on the day of the assassination until the continual
prompting of Mr. Ball as he mentions it was a Friday twice. Did LHO
come there at all? Was he near the area or elsehwere?
robcap...@netscape.com
> >>> "Earlene Roberts was there. You were not. She said Lee arrived at the roominghouse at 1:00 or a minute or two later. She said he was in his room for 3 or 4 minutes." <<<
>
"And she also said this (which the kooks want to ignore I suppose):
"Just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and
put it on and he went out zipping it.""
She did say 3 or 4 minutes:
Mr. BALL. And about what time was this?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, it was after President Kennedy had been shot and I
had a friend that said, "Roberts, President Kennedy has been shot,"
and I said, "Oh, no." She said, "Turn on your television," and I said
"What are you trying to do, pull my leg?" And she said, "Well, go turn
it on." I went and turned it on and I was trying to clear it up---I
could hear them talking but I couldn't get the picture and he come in
and I just looked up and I said, "Oh, you are in a hurry." He never
said a thing, not nothing. He went on to his room and stayed about **3
or 4 minutes.**
Walt
> On Mar 15, 9:35 am, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Why must you lie?.... You know damned well that FBI ballistics expert
> > Cunningham testified under oath that the short barreled revolver was
> > INCAPABLE of producing a bullet that could be ballistically traced to
> > that gun. Only a fool would lie in the face of the facts.
>
> What about Nicol? He matched one of the four bullets to Oswald's
> pistol,
Just how gullible are you??..... Cunningham tried to get a pair of
bullets that matched so they could be ballistically traced to that
snub nosed revolver. He was working under carefully controlled lab
conditions but after dozens of rounds he was unable to obtain just two
bullets that looked alike under a microscope. But you're so gullible
that you believe that Nicol was able to match one of the bullets from
Tippits body to the pistol. The bullet that Nicol claimed matched the
pistol, had been fired through several layers of clothing, a package
of cigarettes, and flesh and bone. What do you use for brains??
and four cartridge
> cases were matched definitively to the pistol. End of story.
BS!!.... Have you ever bothered to actually LOOK at the indentations
in the primer caps of the shells that were alledegedly picked up at
the scene?? Those shells were fired in three different pistols.
>
> Of course, you know the evidence, and you know this. Instead of being
> a man and admitting Oswald is a cop killer, you do everything in your
> power to keep alive your position of Head Kook in the Lee Harvey
> Oswald Fan Club.
Chuck You are the coward ....you're afraid to admit that your
government leaders are corrupt. You're a disgrace to the American's
who gave their lives so that you can live free.
tomnln
Another coincidence:
Explain that.
**********************
Dishonest chuckie Pretends he's not aware of this Report from the guy who
TAUGHT at Quantico>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Schuyler
Your own 'expert' concluded:
<ON>
Caution: It must be remembered that my conclusions are derived from a
single photograph, received over the internet and in no way should be
compared with a microscopic examination of the actual physical
evidence recovered at the crime scene in a controlled environment.
<OFF>
Even your own expert thinks you are full of poop.
How embarassing for you!
tomnln
Your own 'expert' concluded:
<ON>
<OFF>
How embarassing for you!
The "Embarrassment" IS YOURS.
Bob Taught at Quantico.
Are you suggesting that ALL FBI Agents are Incompetant?
When are you gonna address the destruction od evidence by the
authorities?>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/PROVEN%20LIES.htm
http://whokilledjfk.net/CASE%20DISMISSED.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Schuyler
> The "Embarrassment" IS YOURS.
>
> Bob Taught at Quantico.
>
> Are you suggesting that ALL FBI Agents are Incompetant?
>
> When are you gonna address the destruction od evidence by the
> authorities?>>>
Aren't you the kook that says we should only consider OFFICIAL
EVIDEVIDENCE/TESTIMONY from the TWENTY-SIX VOLUMES?
Did your expert have anything published by the Warren Commission? The
HSCA?
Not my logic, but according to your OWN LOGIC, his opinions carry very
little weight because they aren't/weren't part of the "twenty-six
volumes".
Your own expert says his opinions aren't worth much when compared to
the more detailed analysis done on the actual physical evidence.
Nice going, Bozo-Rossley.
You're a funny, wrinkled little man. Thanks for the laughs. Not even
your humanoid sub-species homo-conspiratorius friends like Gil or Walt
defend you anymore.
You're just a tired old Kennedy-hating, Commie loving shut-in,
fantasizing about having gay anal sex with other posters at this board
in the final weeks of your failed life.
With logic like yours, its little wonder why you were regulated to a
career cleaning pubic hairs off of toilet seats at some public high
school for all of those years. That career went right down the-pardon
the pun-crapper, eh, Bozo-Rossley?
You really are dumb.
And stupid.
But you do make all of us laugh!
David Von Pein
Good boy, Walt. Just ignore the four spent bullet shells from Oswald's
gun that littered Tenth Street.
Those shells were probably already in the Davis' yard prior to the
Tippit shooting. It's probably just a coincidence that the shells
found by THREE separate witnesses on 10th St. were all tied
conclusively to the gun that Lee Oswald had on him when he was
apprehended.
And it's also prob'ly just a mere co-inky that the man who possessed
that very gun in the movie theater turned out to be the very same man
who was positively identified later on by 13 different witnesses as
the one and only man running from the scene of the Tippit murder site
waving a gun around.
You're right, Walt. It was all just a series of innocent "OSWALD
MUST'VE DONE IT, BUT HE REALLY DIDN'T" coincidences.
Walt
> >>> "You know damned well that FBI ballistics expert Cunningham testified under oath that the short barreled revolver was INCAPABLE of producing a bullet that could be ballistically traced to that gun. Only a fool would lie in the face of the facts." <<<
>
> Good boy, Walt. Just ignore the four spent bullet shells from Oswald's
> gun that littered Tenth Street.
>
> Those shells were probably already in the Davis' yard prior to the
> Tippit shooting. It's probably just a coincidence that the shells
> found by THREE separate witnesses on 10th St. were all tied
> conclusively to the gun that Lee Oswald had on him when he was
> apprehended.
Hey Von Pea Brain.... I well aware that you lack the guts and
intellectual honesty to actually LOOK at the enlarged photo of the
shell casings displayed on page 139 of TSFLHO. You don't have to be
an "expert" to see that the primer caps in those shells were not
struck by the same hammer. But even if you had the guts to face the
facts being shoved in your face, you're probably simply too damned
stupid to open your eyes.
Anybody who would believe the SBT (Simply Bullshit Theory) can't be
the brighest bulb on the tree.