Debating The John F. Kennedy Assassination (Part 16)
David Von Pein
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SUBJECT -- The JFK Assassination: The Ongoing "Lone Assassin vs.
Conspiracy" Debate.
FEATURED TEXT -- Archived JFK Forum Messages From November 2006.
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CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- The curtains and curtain rods in his
{Lee Harvey Oswald's} room were very flimsy and he wanted to put in a
different type. .... He forgot them after being confronted by the cop.
He didn't have time to go back and get them before the police sealed
off the building.
DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- The people who continually try to shoehorn a
conspiracy into the mix when talking about Oswald's obvious lies re.
the "curtain rod" story simply boil my blood.
Oswald LIED (multiple times!) to Wesley Frazier with respect to the
"rods" -- he lied to Frazier on Thursday, Nov. 21 when he asked Wesley
for a ride to Irving to get "curtain rods" from the Paine home. And LHO
lied a second time about the rods on the morning of Nov. 22 when he
told Frazier that the bag on Wesley's back seat contained "curtain
rods".
How do we know he lied (twice)? Because it's so very obvious that NO
CURTAIN RODS EVER EXISTED IN THAT PACKAGE. None were found in the
Depository and we know Oswald didn't take any curtain rods home with
him on Nov. 22 when he rushed into his roominghouse at 1:00.
Did Oswald just chuck 'em in the trash after taking them into the TSBD?
Why would he do that? And even THAT type of stupid explanation wouldn't
help explain the paper bag with Oswald's extremely-incriminating RIGHT
PALMPRINT on the closed end of the bag!
More common-sense questions to ask re. the "curtain rods":
1.) If Oswald really had curtain rods in the bag (instead of his
rifle)....why the big hurry to collect the rods on THURSDAY night,
instead of LHO's normal Friday visit over the weekend? Was he in such a
desperate need for those rods that he couldn't wait 24 more hours until
his regular Friday visit rolled around?
2.) Why didn't Oswald say a single word to either Ruth Paine or his
wife Marina about coming to Irving on Thursday to get some curtain
rods? Per Wes Frazier, the ENTIRE reason for the Thursday-night trip to
Irving was so LHO could get those rods at the Paine house....and yet
Oswald never mentioned a word to Marina or Ruth about the "rods" being
the reason he visited on Thursday instead of Friday that week. Why?*
* = Common-Sense Answer --- Obviously it's because the "rods" story was
a fabricated one, used as a cover story to appease Wes Frazier. The
false story also is two-pronged....with both "ends" of the trip to
Irving covered by the "curtain rod" tale; i.e., the first lie on
Thursday (the excuse for needing to go to Irving on Thursday instead of
Friday) links to the second "rod" lie on Friday, which explains the
package's contents to the satisfaction of Frazier, so that no more
needs to be said about the seemingly-innocuous contents of the brown
paper bag carried into the TSBD by Oswald.
Pretty smart pre-planned lying on Oswald's part, IMO. Except for one
thing -- he forgot to put a couple of curtain rods in the bag. And why
didn't he do that? If he had taken some ACTUAL curtain rods to work, he
could have HONESTLY maintained that rods WERE in the package, because
they WOULD have been in the package (with the rifle).
In any event, we know that Ruth Paine didn't hear the words "curtain
rods" come out of Oswald's mouth at any time in Nov. 1963, per these
words spoken by Mrs. Paine herself in 1986......
V. BUGLIOSI -- "While he {Lee Oswald} was at your home did he ask you
for any curtain rods?"
R. PAINE -- "No, he didn't."
BUGLIOSI -- "Did he ever, at ANY time, ask you for curtain rods?"
PAINE -- "No."
BUGLIOSI -- "Was there any discussion between you and him, or you and
Marina, about curtain rods?"
PAINE -- "No."
BUGLIOSI -- "Now you, in fact, DID have some curtain rods in the
garage, is that correct?"
PAINE -- "In the garage...yes."
BUGLIOSI -- "After the assassination, they were still there."
PAINE -- "Yes, that's right."
How can assassination conspiracists stand there and actually have the
gall to claim that Lee Oswald cannot be tied to the JFK murder?!
For Pete's sake, OSWALD'S PRINTS WERE ON AN EMPTY PAPER BAG IN THE
MURDERER'S WINDOW!
And that's an item (the empty brown bag) that has NO logical reason for
being where it was found (official picture of it or not) in the course
of everyday TSBD business. It's one of THE most incriminating hunks of
evidence against Oswald -- especially since the palmprint on the bag
perfectly corroborates Wesley Frazier's testimony of how Oswald carried
a similar object (a brown paper bag) into the building the very morning
of the assassination.
Frazier's testimony + the bag with Oswald's prints = Oswald was at the
sniper's window at some point on 11/22/63. There is very little doubt
about that fact.
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CTer -- He {Oswald} was such a sharpshooter he missed the entire
stretch limo.
DVP -- And per Mr. Robert J. Groden (a "respected researcher", per many
CTers), not just ONE shot missed the entire limo, but FIVE shots missed
the car. Great pro assassins there.
I guess most of the "real killers" must have blindfolded
themselves....just to make it more challenging.
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CTer -- {Why didn't Oswald} shoot the driver? That would have given him
time if he missed the whole car.
DVP -- It would have been better to shoot out the limo's tires too.
Come to think of it, with all of those gunmen in the Plaza (per the
conspiracy believers), why DIDN'T they divide up the duties a little
better?
For example: One guy shoots Kennedy; one guy shoots the driver; eight
more assassins shoot the 8 Secret Service agents in the follow-up car
(one agent per gunman); and another shooter takes care of the limo's
tires.
That's a mere 11 gunmen. Sounds like a Groden-esque theory that many
conspiracy-thirsty goofs would probably embrace in a heartbeat. ;)
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CTer -- {Oswald} gets a crappy bolt-action gun, not a semi or automatic
one.
DVP -- Shame on Oswald for not measuring up to a CT-Kook's weapon
expectations.
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CTer -- {Oswald doesn't} get a good angle, he picks the southeast
window for a southwest shot.
DVP -- Yeah, who would want to choose a sniper's position which would
ensure the SS men all had their backs to the assailant? He should have
chosen a perch which would have given the SS men a fightin' chance,
right? Damn Oswald. You just can't depend on these 24-year-old
whippersnappers to get anything right.
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CTer -- {Oswald} put a wall and a pipe in his way; why not pick a
window without obstacles?
DVP -- And yet, per the CT-Kooks (like Jim Garrison, Oliver Stone, and
gobs of others too), the Patsy-Framers chose that southeast corner
window too, didn't they? Stupid of them (too), huh? Rookie
Patsy-Framers! You can't trust them either.
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CTer -- Forget about any bodyguards riding on the bumper {of JFK's
car}; Oswald will just have to hope they are sick that day and won't
get in the line of fire!
DVP -- Yeah...and you'd better hope it doesn't continue to rain either.
Because if it does, the "Patsy" plot is gonna suffer a major detour too
(in that the bubbletop will be affixed to the limo, making a kill shot
from Mr. "Badge Man" much more difficult).
The bubbletop was just plastic, and not bullet-proof, true....but it
might very well have deflected a potentially-lethal bullet. I guess the
weatherman was in on the massive conspiracy too, huh?
Lucky plotters, one and all. For, it'd be a crying shame to have had
all of that Patsy-Pre-Arranging (with the Mexico imposter and the fake
backyard photos, etc.) go to waste just because of a little rain.
Sure, if the bubbletop had been on the car, it would have made it a
tougher job for Oswald (alone), too. So that "weather" argument swings
both ways.
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CTer -- The {Sniper's-Nest} boxes are comparatively insignificant.
DVP -- The boxes (with multiple fresh LHO prints on them) are only
insignificant to CTers who want to ignore all the other stuff (bullets,
guns, shells, lack of an alibi, LHO-seeing witnesses, etc.) that
elevates those prints (on boxes DEEP within the bowels of the Sniper's
Nest) to higher levels of corroborative significance.
But, keep dreaming up excuses anyway. One of these days you might wake
up and discover that the evidence in a murder case ACTUALLY means what
it says it means....instead of exactly the opposite.
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CTer -- Is it not true that two shots fired close together, as
substantiated by reputable earwitnesses, could not possibly have been
fired from {Oswald's} Carcano rifle?
DVP -- What makes some witnesses MORE "reputable" than others in this
"Shots Fired Close Together" regard?
Yes, I fully realize the problems of ear/eyewitness testimony and
faulty/skewed recollection....but so should the CTers who like to tout
the "Shots Close Together" mantra.
Here are several instances of witnesses NOT hearing the shots "close
together". (Are these witnesses to be discounted entirely?)......
Via Warren Commission testimony:
MARRION L. BAKER -- "It seemed to me like they just went bang, bang,
bang; they were pretty well even to me."
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JAMES ROMACK -- "It sounded like to me that they were evenly spaced."
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TOM DILLARD -- "I heard three {gunshots}....approximately equally
spaced."
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MAL COUCH -- "As I recall, the time sequence between the three were
relatively the same."
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EMMETT HUDSON -- "They seemed pretty well evenly spaced."
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HAROLD NORMAN (Via his re-creations of the shooting) --
"Boom...click-click...Boom...click-click...Boom."
(Norman always "re-created" his "Booms-Clicks-Clicks" in a
perfectly-even distribution of the gunshots.)
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CTer -- Is it not true that a second and professional shooter might
have gotten away leaving no trace?
DVP -- Only if that shooter missed the whole limo and also missed
everyone (and everything) else in Dealey Plaza with his shot(s).
Is it likely that a "professional" would completely miss the whole darn
car with his ONE single shot? (And an even LESS likely scenario would
have such a "professional" totally missing everything in sight with
MORE than one shot that he may have fired at the President.)