Fellowship of Friends: ORAL COPULATION
Hardcopy
What is happening in this cult in the name of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky
is a crime:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3395/discontent.html
Fellowship members you owe no devotion to a criminal. Not only
do you gain nothing by your continuted monetary support of this
criminal and his paid 'yes men,' but by your ignorance you do
harm that you too will ultimately be held accountable for.
Eric
Ha...@copy.com (Hardcopy) wrote:
>http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3395/discontent.html
Yo, fellow brother in the G & O tradition:
Didn't G instruct one to leave fellow students alone when they went
astray? You are pushing them further into confusion, and further from
the work if they are reading this. To put this into practice, I shall
leave you alone if you disagree with me. Continue doing what you are
doing. My words can't stop you but for a moment after which you'll
respond with even greater force.
For what exactly are you aiming in this endeavor?
Eric
John T. Engel
JTE responds:
This is an interesting angle; but it is also important to know that FOF
members (current) have no world outside of the FOF and therefore would
not be reading this. As for those who have escaped; the journey
continues.
In <34abd...@news.integrityonline2.com> Ha...@copy.com (Hardcopy)
writes:
John T. Engel
JTE asks:
I am also interested in knowing what your aim is in this posting
endeavor?
In <68l2m8$5...@news-central.tiac.net> e...@tiac.net (Eric) writes:
>
>Ha...@copy.com (Hardcopy) wrote:
>
>>What is happening in this cult in the name of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky
>>is a crime:
>
>>http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3395/discontent.html
>
>>Fellowship members you owe no devotion to a criminal. Not only
>>do you gain nothing by your continuted monetary support of this
>>criminal and his paid 'yes men,' but by your ignorance you do
>>harm that you too will ultimately be held accountable for.
>
Eric
j...@ix.netcom.com(John T. Engel) wrote:
>JTE responds:
>This is an interesting angle; but it is also important to know that FOF
>members (current) have no world outside of the FOF and therefore would
>not be reading this. As for those who have escaped; the journey
>continues.
Who was Layne Negrin?
>In <34abd...@news.integrityonline2.com> Ha...@copy.com (Hardcopy)
>writes:
>>
Eric
j...@ix.netcom.com(John T. Engel) wrote:
>JTE asks:
>I am also interested in knowing what your aim is in this posting
>endeavor?
"**** you, you *******!!!" was the first voice I'd observed. :-)
My aim is to remember myself. I have tried to stop being clever and
sounding argumentative, snide and arrogant for a period. In that
time, I observed resentment and in identifying with it became
"hardened" and resentful towards "others" and "myself" for not "trying
hard enough." Throughout, it seemed that "I" was not going to change
by any effort of my own but "I" continued anyhow and identified with
that observation as "a cop-out." Then it was observed that "I"was
being drawn to the computer and returning to the cleverness and
wiseacring that "I" see coming from me now. Now, from my episode of
"trying to change, " I see the cleverness and the resentment together
and a host of expressions too large, and unnecessary, to list here.
When identified, it is a nightmare. When there is disidentification,
there is a momentary painfulness from which it appears that a decision
is made....to soften and be, or to return to the "comfort" of the
activity. I would like to hint that I am a slow learner, but that I
have nothing to compare with so that is a joke. What occasionally
shocks me is that here, in this lifetime, the possibility of awakening
has shown its face. "I" continue to "be me" and observe what it is
possible for me to observe.
Your prayers are welcome...
Eric
>In <68l2m8$5...@news-central.tiac.net> e...@tiac.net (Eric) writes:
>>
>>Ha...@copy.com (Hardcopy) wrote:
>>
>>>What is happening in this cult in the name of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky
>>>is a crime:
>>
>>>http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3395/discontent.html
>>
>>>Fellowship members you owe no devotion to a criminal. Not only
>>>do you gain nothing by your continuted monetary support of this
>>>criminal and his paid 'yes men,' but by your ignorance you do
>>>harm that you too will ultimately be held accountable for.
>>
John T. Engel
JTE responds:
I am not sure. I don't remember that name. Was he or she in the FOF?
Maybe you can help to enlighten me.
In <68qnsq$s...@news-central.tiac.net> e...@tiac.net (Eric) writes:
>
>j...@ix.netcom.com(John T. Engel) wrote:
>
>>JTE responds:
>
>>This is an interesting angle; but it is also important to know that
FOF
>>members (current) have no world outside of the FOF and therefore
would
>>not be reading this. As for those who have escaped; the journey
>>continues.
>
>Who was Layne Negrin?
>
>
>>In <34abd...@news.integrityonline2.com> Ha...@copy.com (Hardcopy)
>>writes:
>>>
John T. Engel
JTE responds to Eric:
My prayers are always with you my brother. I too have faced the
excruciatingly painful darkness of the violence of the false
personality. I was a very violent man in my early years and struggled
to become less so. I have somewhat succeeded but, according to my
lovely bride, I still have a long way to go (and she's right).
This struggle within you appears to be part of the self-remembering
process so I humbly suggest you observe it as much as you are able.
Ibn al-Arabi, the great 8th century sufic teacher said that those who
learn the art of self endurance are pillars to their communities.
al-Arabi also said that those who are sincere in their journey will
most assuredly benefit from leading with the heart. IMHO, there can be
no 'wrong done' by this activity.
I want to thank you for 'leading with your heart' so often when
self-disclosure becomes your aim. There are countless millions of so
called students wandering this earth (and the many newsgroups around
it) who simply choose to impart pain and insincerity to their 'fellow'
students. My friend, I need to treasure as many sincere students as I
can because few lead with their heart.
Al saalam saleikim John
In <68s526$a...@news-central.tiac.net> elyN...@tiac.net (Eric) writes:
>>>>What is happening in this cult in the name of Gurdjieff and
Ouspensky
>>>>is a crime:
>>>
>>>>http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3395/discontent.html
>>>
>>>>Fellowship members you owe no devotion to a criminal. Not only
>>>>do you gain nothing by your continuted monetary support of this
>>>>criminal and his paid 'yes men,' but by your ignorance you do
>>>>harm that you too will ultimately be held accountable for.
>>>
Eric
j...@ix.netcom.com(John T. Engel) wrote:
>JTE responds:
>I am not sure. I don't remember that name. Was he or she in the FOF?
>Maybe you can help to enlighten me.
Many moons ago, there was a series of posts by someone named "Layne
Negrin" who would join in some threads. "Ivan Osokin" appeared to
somehow have pushed the buttons of Layne Negrin who, as a proclaimed
member of FOF (past? present?), would respond harshly....then later
apologize publicly for being identified. This happened on a couple of
occasions. Then Layne disappeared....(and so did Ivan)......
Eric
>In <68qnsq$s...@news-central.tiac.net> e...@tiac.net (Eric) writes:
>>
>>j...@ix.netcom.com(John T. Engel) wrote:
>>
>>>JTE responds:
>>
>>>This is an interesting angle; but it is also important to know that
>FOF
>>>members (current) have no world outside of the FOF and therefore
>would
>>>not be reading this. As for those who have escaped; the journey
>>>continues.
>>
>>Who was Layne Negrin?
>>
>>
>>>In <34abd...@news.integrityonline2.com> Ha...@copy.com (Hardcopy)
>>>writes:
>>>>
Eric
j...@ix.netcom.com(John T. Engel) wrote:
>JTE responds to Eric:
>My prayers are always with you my brother. I too have faced the
>excruciatingly painful darkness of the violence of the false
>personality. I was a very violent man in my early years and struggled
>to become less so. I have somewhat succeeded but, according to my
>lovely bride, I still have a long way to go (and she's right).
>This struggle within you appears to be part of the self-remembering
>process so I humbly suggest you observe it as much as you are able.
>Ibn al-Arabi, the great 8th century sufic teacher said that those who
>learn the art of self endurance are pillars to their communities.
>al-Arabi also said that those who are sincere in their journey will
>most assuredly benefit from leading with the heart. IMHO, there can be
>no 'wrong done' by this activity.
>I want to thank you for 'leading with your heart' so often when
>self-disclosure becomes your aim. There are countless millions of so
>called students wandering this earth (and the many newsgroups around
>it) who simply choose to impart pain and insincerity to their 'fellow'
>students. My friend, I need to treasure as many sincere students as I
>can because few lead with their heart.
Thank you for sharing from you heart, also. It is uncomfortable to
hear words which speak of me in ways it does not feel I deserve. This
life I've lived is filled with memories of broken promises and little
appreciation. I've said before that I experienced life as the
youngest in my family by 8, 10 and 11 years. The ways to attract
attention were learned automatically. The pain of not having it was
too unbearable. I discovered ways of being clever and attractive that
stupify the average person....and the stupification is yet another
piece of evidence of the ability to attract and mystify. But this
ability isn't mine. It just happened to me out of a perceived
necessity: do so, or die a long, slow death. The other options were
not clear at the time, and lack of attention was more frightening than
death to a young child (and older ones, yes)
Today, there is a strong sense of duty in my family. My father
reminds us that the family is everything as he somehow manages all of
our foibles. He feels week without us. He seems to need us and our
problems, at all costs. He has made life comfortable for me, but not
comfortable enough that I might disappear from his sight for any great
length of time. He doesn't tell me what to do, he simply suggests.
But he does so knowing my fears are inherited and my predisposition to
stray from the family is about as developed as his...not very.
So I sit here in the Boston area, 20 minutes North of my hometown, in
an apartment paid for by him, with a car paid for by him, and a job
given by him and paid above the average by him, with a health plan
assisted by him, and a computer paid for by him. I am filled with
resentment amidst all of this because I do not know how to move from
this. Two years ago, there was a marked moment whereby I began to
surrender the dreams I'd had about who I was and what I was to become
because they were nothing more than flights into fantasy. Through
those fantasies nothing significant changed: the experience of love
did not increase or decrease, the job stayed the way it was, people
kept complaining, I did not get more sleep, I did not restart an
exercise program, my sister remained hostile towards her husband who,
in turn, remained passive-agressive with her, my brother's weight kept
see-sawing and he continued smoking despite attempts to quit, my other
brother continued to work incessantly and the black circles under his
eyes grew larger. When I began to observe the effects of imagination,
my sexual encounters dropped dramatically and I no longer saw the same
people as suitable partners. And, like the "stuck between two chairs"
analogy, I became caught between the love for the mechanical and the
desire to awaken. Somewhere in the middle, I exist..
So, I sit here, stationary, while the mind moves the body through its
routine and then stages a rebellion because it has other ideas which
supposedly lead to salvation. It seems so dreadful to imagine that
-this- here is all there is, and yet this here -is- all there is for
me right now. It has been helpful for me to not imagine it and to
just be with it.
There is something in particular that I would like to request:
Could you or anyone else here offer me insight into something I'd read
in EG Gold's "The Human Biological Machine..." The point being made
was that one of the difficulties in self-remembering is that of a
person awakening but not knowing how to direct attention. This seems
to be the case with me, at times. There are moments, where I am
awake, and all I can do is be vividly aware of a profound sense of
being in which I am not thinking seperating thoughts and am
experiencing relationship/connectedness with whatever enters my field
of awareness. Though I can't see that there is anything to do in this
state. This calls into question, "Man Cannot Do." as the ego shudders
at the thought, "There is nothing for man to do, period." Can man do?
Can he prepare for a moment when doing is possible? What can I learn
about this? Or is there a deeper question which must be addressed
first?
Thank you,
Eric
>Al saalam saleikim John
>In <68s526$a...@news-central.tiac.net> elyN...@tiac.net (Eric) writes:
>>>>>What is happening in this cult in the name of Gurdjieff and
>Ouspensky
>>>>>is a crime:
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3395/discontent.html
>>>>
>>>>>Fellowship members you owe no devotion to a criminal. Not only
>>>>>do you gain nothing by your continuted monetary support of this
>>>>>criminal and his paid 'yes men,' but by your ignorance you do
>>>>>harm that you too will ultimately be held accountable for.
>>>>
George C. Lindauer
Eric (e...@tiac.net) wrote:
> So I sit here in the Boston area, 20 minutes North of my hometown, in
> an apartment paid for by him, with a car paid for by him, and a job
> given by him and paid above the average by him, with a health plan
> assisted by him, and a computer paid for by him. I am filled with
> resentment amidst all of this because I do not know how to move from
> this. Two years ago, there was a marked moment whereby I began to
I know what you mean. I tried like hell to get computers out of my life
and then when I finally thought I'd done it someone just *gave* me one.
I remember that well, and although I accept them now because secretly
I kind of like the patterns I can spin with them... I know that in the
end when I get sick enough to get rid of something it is my choice and I will
have to stick by it through thick and thin if I really want to carry it
off. I.E. I'm not going to get support for being what I am...
> Could you or anyone else here offer me insight into something I'd read
> in EG Gold's "The Human Biological Machine..." The point being made
> was that one of the difficulties in self-remembering is that of a
> person awakening but not knowing how to direct attention. This seems
> to be the case with me, at times. There are moments, where I am
> awake, and all I can do is be vividly aware of a profound sense of
> being in which I am not thinking seperating thoughts and am
> experiencing relationship/connectedness with whatever enters my field
> of awareness. Though I can't see that there is anything to do in this
> state. This calls into question, "Man Cannot Do." as the ego shudders
> at the thought, "There is nothing for man to do, period." Can man do?
> Can he prepare for a moment when doing is possible? What can I learn
> about this? Or is there a deeper question which must be addressed
> first?
Awareness isn't an end, it is just a beginning.
And what is it you are so eager to do? I mean, just getting to that
state of consciousness was an awful lot. How much are you expecting
out of yourself? Are your expectations realistic?
when galileo and copernicus where toying with the theory that the
earth was not the center of the universe, do you think they knew what to
do with it right away? I mean, they hardly knew what what going to come
here in the twentieth centruy as a result of their theories. They
just knew that it was in their hearts to start the ball rolling.
When the first explorers came to america they had no idea what to
expect. They didn't have all the maps we take for granted, didn't
know anything about indians, hell they didn't even know if they
were going to find some kind of animal that would kill them if it
touched them! That thought 'I don't know how to respond to these
situations' didn't occur to them, and with time they learned enough
about the land and its creatures to be able to navigate to a
certain extent. (we still aren't very good at it imo. The reason being
we tried to impose our own will on the place instead of learning
about it).
babies start out with lots of patterns swirl around them, over time
they sit there and watch, then they start interacting with things,
eventually they show enough comprehension of things to eke out
an austere living.
the thing that needs to be addressed is the over-emphasis on
'what should I do' at the expense of learning how by experiencing.
david
Dingosatemybaby
In the Fourth Way there is a term for this kind of sentimentality: self-pity.
In article <68sp0m$k...@news-central.tiac.net>, e...@tiac.net says...
Eric
gcli...@spd.louisville.edu (George C. Lindauer) wrote:
>Eric (e...@tiac.net) wrote:
>> So I sit here in the Boston area, 20 minutes North of my hometown, in
>> an apartment paid for by him, with a car paid for by him, and a job
>> given by him and paid above the average by him, with a health plan
>> assisted by him, and a computer paid for by him. I am filled with
>> resentment amidst all of this because I do not know how to move from
>> this. Two years ago, there was a marked moment whereby I began to
>I know what you mean. I tried like hell to get computers out of my life
>and then when I finally thought I'd done it someone just *gave* me one.
>I remember that well, and although I accept them now because secretly
>I kind of like the patterns I can spin with them... I know that in the
>end when I get sick enough to get rid of something it is my choice and I will
>have to stick by it through thick and thin if I really want to carry it
>off. I.E. I'm not going to get support for being what I am...
>> Could you or anyone else here offer me insight into something I'd read
>> in EG Gold's "The Human Biological Machine..." The point being made
>> was that one of the difficulties in self-remembering is that of a
>> person awakening but not knowing how to direct attention. This seems
>> to be the case with me, at times. There are moments, where I am
>> awake, and all I can do is be vividly aware of a profound sense of
>> being in which I am not thinking seperating thoughts and am
>> experiencing relationship/connectedness with whatever enters my field
>> of awareness. Though I can't see that there is anything to do in this
>> state. This calls into question, "Man Cannot Do." as the ego shudders
>> at the thought, "There is nothing for man to do, period." Can man do?
>> Can he prepare for a moment when doing is possible? What can I learn
>> about this? Or is there a deeper question which must be addressed
>> first?
>Awareness isn't an end, it is just a beginning.
>And what is it you are so eager to do? I mean, just getting to that
>state of consciousness was an awful lot. How much are you expecting
>out of yourself? Are your expectations realistic?
>when galileo and copernicus where toying with the theory that the
>earth was not the center of the universe, do you think they knew what to
>do with it right away? I mean, they hardly knew what what going to come
>here in the twentieth centruy as a result of their theories. They
>just knew that it was in their hearts to start the ball rolling.
I do not relate well to this example. I know nothing of their
circumstances, genetic disposition, planetary influence, and so
forth. Though it might be a stretch to replace the Earth as the
center of the universe, it seems a lot easier than discovering that
"I" is not who "I" thinks it is. Many can more easily accept the
pleasurable seduction of the logic of a new cosmic map, mathematically
demonstrable, than the reality of "I" is not who "I" thinks "I" is.
The human being craves love, attention, admiration and so much more,
things which are harder to overcome than concepts of planetary maps.
>When the first explorers came to america they had no idea what to
>expect. They didn't have all the maps we take for granted, didn't
>know anything about indians, hell they didn't even know if they
>were going to find some kind of animal that would kill them if it
>touched them! That thought 'I don't know how to respond to these
>situations' didn't occur to them, and with time they learned enough
>about the land and its creatures to be able to navigate to a
>certain extent. (we still aren't very good at it imo. The reason being
>we tried to impose our own will on the place instead of learning
>about it).
>babies start out with lots of patterns swirl around them, over time
>they sit there and watch, then they start interacting with things,
>eventually they show enough comprehension of things to eke out
>an austere living.
>the thing that needs to be addressed is the over-emphasis on
>'what should I do' at the expense of learning how by experiencing.
Guidance is necessary...i ask to experience guidance directly. This
is my prayer, David.
Eric
>david
Eric
Din...@atemy.baby (Dingosatemybaby) wrote:
>In the Fourth Way there is a term for this kind of sentimentality: self-pity.
Correct. Though I was awake and observing it as I'd shared it. Also,
it referred to observations on this self. What do your observations
reveal about your attraction to displays of self-pity and the desire
to announce them? A voice in me insists you have none. Another "i"
agrees. They don't like you very much.
Thank you,
Eric
John T. Engel
JTE replies:
How interesting! I still can not recognize the name. Is there anyone
else out there who does?
In <68smj9$f...@news-central.tiac.net> e...@tiac.net (Eric) writes:
>
>j...@ix.netcom.com(John T. Engel) wrote:
>
>>JTE responds:
>
>>I am not sure. I don't remember that name. Was he or she in the
FOF?
>>Maybe you can help to enlighten me.
>
>Many moons ago, there was a series of posts by someone named "Layne
>Negrin" who would join in some threads. "Ivan Osokin" appeared to
>somehow have pushed the buttons of Layne Negrin who, as a proclaimed
>member of FOF (past? present?), would respond harshly....then later
>apologize publicly for being identified. This happened on a couple of
>occasions. Then Layne disappeared....(and so did Ivan)......
>
>Eric
>
>
>
>
>>In <68qnsq$s...@news-central.tiac.net> e...@tiac.net (Eric) writes:
>>>
>>>j...@ix.netcom.com(John T. Engel) wrote:
>>>
>>>>JTE responds:
>>>
>>>>This is an interesting angle; but it is also important to know that
>>FOF
>>>>members (current) have no world outside of the FOF and therefore
>>would
>>>>not be reading this. As for those who have escaped; the journey
>>>>continues.
>>>
>>>Who was Layne Negrin?
>>>
>>>
>>>>In <34abd...@news.integrityonline2.com> Ha...@copy.com (Hardcopy)
>>>>writes:
>>>>>
John T. Engel
JTE replies:
I cannot and would not speak for Eric but please allow me the hearing
of a different angle (not an opposite one). I believe, IMHO, when I
seperate from lower emotional centers and enter into the king of
hearts, Eric's center of what he is trying to say is not so much
sentimentality or self-pity by self-examination and done sincerely.
Imam Al-Ghazali, the Renewer of the Faith, and one of the pillars of
Mr. G's beliefs, says, "The fifth duty of the Brotherhood of the Elect
is the forgiveness of mistakes and failings."; from the
Ihya-Ulhm-Id-Din.
I consider all those who are sincere in their 'work life' to be my
brothers and therefore worthy of the above.
In <34b27...@news.integrityonline2.com> Din...@atemy.baby
George C. Lindauer
> >Eric (e...@tiac.net) wrote:
I can't relate to that, I'm only recently coming down from my
'can't let anyone do anything for me under any circumstances' hill.
It is still very new to me, this idea that sometimes people can do
something useful for me and not just get in the way.
But there are people who are aware to greater or lesser degrees. Maybe
it is time to put some money where your mouth is, drop some of your
comfort zone and go looking? One thing though that you should know
if you think about it. This desire for awareness is NOT a new
think, it has been acheived to greater and lesser degrees over the
ages using a wide variety of techniques. If it is truly the
awareness you are after and not just the love of a good story,
it may turn out that some of the comfort you have to give up is
thinking that only the fourth way is a good path. In other words if you
go looking for a teacher you may not want to demand that he only
teaches via fourth-way techniques.
I've lied and said something about my comfort level. In actuality
I'm not very comfortable at all, my whole body hurts most of the time,
at least in terms of what I would have called hurt earlier in my
life. I long for some sort of relief sometimes but that only
makes it worse. Recently I have been kind of getting used to
it, even marveling at the fact that when I didn't hurt I wasn't
very aware either. In some ways I welcome the hurt because it is
a kind of feeling, and the whole point of my life before the last few
years was to null out all feeling.
The most compelling reason for my being in the situation I am in is,
in my experience employers have sensed what they can get out of me
and at the same time they feel like they can get away with taking
it and not even bother to respect me in return. I never learned politics
and I'm kind of glad, I really could waste a lot of my life trying
to talk people into give me something they never should have taken
awway. Oh and when I first started writing I was worse than
stephen is now. I never really learned to talk to anyone either,
me and my island :).
David
> Eric
> >david
Dingos Ate My Baby
In article <68v5to$e...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, j...@ix.netcom.com says...
>
>JTE replies:
>
>I cannot and would not speak for Eric but please allow me the hearing
>of a different angle (not an opposite one). I believe, IMHO, when I
>seperate from lower emotional centers and enter into the king of
>hearts, Eric's center of what he is trying to say is not so much
>sentimentality or self-pity by self-examination and done sincerely.
>Imam Al-Ghazali, the Renewer of the Faith, and one of the pillars of
>Mr. G's beliefs, says, "The fifth duty of the Brotherhood of the Elect
>is the forgiveness of mistakes and failings."; from the
>Ihya-Ulhm-Id-Din.
>
>I consider all those who are sincere in their 'work life' to be my
>brothers and therefore worthy of the above.
The King-of-Hearts? We are in a public newsgroup, the King-of-Hearts would
have more sense, more taste, than to unload a hundred lines of personal
friction in this environment, or any environment. You know nothing about the
King-of-Hearts, you are a superficial, shallow Fellowship act mouthing words
that have sunk no deeper than your formatory center.
Take out the board of artificially correct posture that the Fellowship of
Friends has shoved up your ass and get real.
George C. Lindauer
Dingos Ate My Baby (Din...@AteMy.Baby) wrote:
> The King-of-Hearts? We are in a public newsgroup, the King-of-Hearts would
> have more sense, more taste, than to unload a hundred lines of personal
> friction in this environment, or any environment. You know nothing about the
> King-of-Hearts, you are a superficial, shallow Fellowship act mouthing words
> that have sunk no deeper than your formatory center.
methinks here is someone who needs to listen to his own teachings.
David
Eric
gcli...@spd.louisville.edu (George C. Lindauer) wrote:
>Eric (eliN...@tiac.net) wrote:
>> gcli...@spd.louisville.edu (George C. Lindauer) wrote:
>> >Eric (e...@tiac.net) wrote:
>> Guidance is necessary...i ask to experience guidance directly. This
>> is my prayer, David.
>I can't relate to that, I'm only recently coming down from my
>'can't let anyone do anything for me under any circumstances' hill.
>It is still very new to me, this idea that sometimes people can do
>something useful for me and not just get in the way.
That's ok. When you know what it is you want rather than what you
don't want, the help will come....the prayer is not of words or
thoughts. It's in the "heart" region.
>But there are people who are aware to greater or lesser degrees. Maybe
>it is time to put some money where your mouth is, drop some of your
>comfort zone and go looking? One thing though that you should know
>if you think about it. This desire for awareness is NOT a new
>think, it has been acheived to greater and lesser degrees over the
>ages using a wide variety of techniques. If it is truly the
>awareness you are after and not just the love of a good story,
>it may turn out that some of the comfort you have to give up is
>thinking that only the fourth way is a good path. In other words if you
>go looking for a teacher you may not want to demand that he only
>teaches via fourth-way techniques.
I'm not looking for a teacher. Two years ago, a shift took place
where I no longer only looked but began to find. It occurred to me
that "something found me" long before I knew there was anything but
me. Since then, there has been a steady increase in being receptive
to guidance and greater awareness of coming out of sleep. I know
little, but what I do know cannot be found in what I say, but is to be
found moreso in what I do not say.
>I've lied and said something about my comfort level. In actuality
>I'm not very comfortable at all, my whole body hurts most of the time,
>at least in terms of what I would have called hurt earlier in my
>life. I long for some sort of relief sometimes but that only
>makes it worse. Recently I have been kind of getting used to
>it, even marveling at the fact that when I didn't hurt I wasn't
>very aware either. In some ways I welcome the hurt because it is
>a kind of feeling, and the whole point of my life before the last few
>years was to null out all feeling.
When in pain, I have called my friend via phone and during our talks,
Ill notice that I come to peace and the pain subsides. I am reminded
of the depiction of Rasputin in the HBO version where he talks to the
Czar's ailing son by phone and the child feels well and pain-free
again. Its been pointed out that it is the direction of the attention
that figures into the experience of pain.
>The most compelling reason for my being in the situation I am in is,
>in my experience employers have sensed what they can get out of me
>and at the same time they feel like they can get away with taking
>it and not even bother to respect me in return. I never learned politics
>and I'm kind of glad, I really could waste a lot of my life trying
>to talk people into give me something they never should have taken
>awway. Oh and when I first started writing I was worse than
>stephen is now. I never really learned to talk to anyone either,
>me and my island :).
Glad to have you aboard...and in better shape than Stephen. :-)
Eric
>David
>> Eric
>> >david
Eric
John,
This sounds like one of Ivan's negative expressions towards FOF. One
might have thought that his words to you were a shock to you when, in
fact, it was your mention of the FOF term "king of hearts" that was
the catalyst for such an outburst. T'were he who were shocked.
This is not a school, but a newsgroup. It is not sealed and is open
to all forms of negative expression.
Eric
Din...@AteMy.Baby (Dingos Ate My Baby) wrote:
>In article <68v5to$e...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, j...@ix.netcom.com says...
>>
>>JTE replies:
>>
>>I cannot and would not speak for Eric but please allow me the hearing
>>of a different angle (not an opposite one). I believe, IMHO, when I
>>seperate from lower emotional centers and enter into the king of
>>hearts, Eric's center of what he is trying to say is not so much
>>sentimentality or self-pity by self-examination and done sincerely.
>>Imam Al-Ghazali, the Renewer of the Faith, and one of the pillars of
>>Mr. G's beliefs, says, "The fifth duty of the Brotherhood of the Elect
>>is the forgiveness of mistakes and failings."; from the
>>Ihya-Ulhm-Id-Din.
>>
>>I consider all those who are sincere in their 'work life' to be my
>>brothers and therefore worthy of the above.
>The King-of-Hearts? We are in a public newsgroup, the King-of-Hearts would
>have more sense, more taste, than to unload a hundred lines of personal
>friction in this environment, or any environment. You know nothing about the
>King-of-Hearts, you are a superficial, shallow Fellowship act mouthing words
Eric
gcli...@spd.louisville.edu (George C. Lindauer) wrote:
>Dingos Ate My Baby (Din...@AteMy.Baby) wrote:
>> The King-of-Hearts? We are in a public newsgroup, the King-of-Hearts would
>> have more sense, more taste, than to unload a hundred lines of personal
>> friction in this environment, or any environment. You know nothing about the
>> King-of-Hearts, you are a superficial, shallow Fellowship act mouthing words
>> that have sunk no deeper than your formatory center.
>methinks here is someone who needs to listen to his own teachings.
Same goes for me. Ivan, uhm, "dingosatemybaby" has been posting like
this regularly and is pretty much stuck there beyond the reach of most
helpful men. "It is not our aim to sacrafice ourselves to unconscious
machines." Go about your business, oh rebel I call my friend....
Eric
George C. Lindauer
Eric (e...@tiac.net) wrote:
> I'm not looking for a teacher. Two years ago, a shift took place
> where I no longer only looked but began to find. It occurred to me
> that "something found me" long before I knew there was anything but
> me. Since then, there has been a steady increase in being receptive
> to guidance and greater awareness of coming out of sleep. I know
> little, but what I do know cannot be found in what I say, but is to be
> found moreso in what I do not say.
I'm very glad for you, as in my own experience teachers are a limiting
factor and I think you have the talent to go beyond what is known.
> When in pain, I have called my friend via phone and during our talks,
> Ill notice that I come to peace and the pain subsides. I am reminded
> of the depiction of Rasputin in the HBO version where he talks to the
> Czar's ailing son by phone and the child feels well and pain-free
> again. Its been pointed out that it is the direction of the attention
> that figures into the experience of pain.
yeah probably. I'm too much of a loaner though.
david
Stella Wirk
First Item:
Hi John,
<snip>...
>>>j...@ix.netcom.com(John T. Engel) wrote:
>>>
>>>>JTE responds:
>>>
>>>>This is an interesting angle; but it is also important to
>>>>know that FOF members (current) have no world outside of the
>>>>FOF and therefore would not be reading this. As for those who
>>>>have escaped; the journey continues....
You are right about *most* FOF members not reading this newsgroup
(and right about them having "no world outside of FOF"). Most of
'em can't afford anything else.
There are *some* who do read it, just to see what is said about FOF,
maybe to just keep up with the gossip and other complaints that come
along.
The thought occurred to me to post the link below for current FOF
members who are being asked to move east (out of California) in
preparation for California to fall into the ocean - let me see,
Burton has given his prophesy that California is going to fall
into the Pacific Ocean in 1998 on April 12th at 11 am.
(Give or take a few minutes, no doubt. <G>)
In any case, the woman who predicted accurately the big blow up of
Mt. St. Helens in Washington State, Charlotte King, has a web site
which may be of interest particularly to FOF members, especially
if they are choosing NOT to move from California:
http://www.viser.net/~charking/ At this site one may subscribe to
volcanic and earthquake "alerts" from her page.
I hasten to add that I am not making fun of Ms. King, as after reading
"Charlotte's Story" on her page, methinks she is quite sincere, and
is indeed tuning in somehow to cataclysmic events. (Scientists
'testing' her abilities found that she is 75-80% accurate, and with
Mt. St. Helens, she was right on the button (100%).
SECOND ITEM:
I received this note from someone who reads this newsgroup frequently.
As my visits here are quite rare, I found the message of interest:
> Hi Stella. Did you read an interesting message on A.T.4TH. from
> Din...@AteMy.Baby...about an ex-FOF guy called Miles Barth,
> appointed man n. 5 by Robert, who resigned some years ago? Do
> you know that name and the story?
I do know the name and the person. However, I have not been in
here for so long, I can't find the message from Din...@AteMy.Baby!
I haven't searched newsgroup archived messages for such a long time,
I can't remember how I ever found them in the first place. <G>
Does anybody have a copy of that "Dingos..." message or can tell
me where I go to search for such a thing? Thanks! I saw the email
address in the first message I looked at today - and, WHAP, after
glancing at it - it disappeared! Grrr. ;-)
I'd like to see what someone with that email address would be
saying about Miles Barth before I would comment further on it! ;-)
Whatsay, folks? Anybody have a copy? Or know how I can find it?
Maybe over this weekend, I'll get a chance to come back to this
newsgroup -- so it would be appreciated if there is a reply to
my inquiry, post here AND to my email address, okay? Thanks!
mailto:ste...@pacbell.net
Thanks again!
-----{@ S t e l l a @}-----
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3395 --follow link "About CULTS" (FOF)
Stella Wirk
Ack. OK, nevermind my previous post in which I asked how to find
a newsgroup item.
Sheesh. I shoulda looked first before I bothered ya. Well, maybe
with same thread and quickly getting this sent - it will not be a
bother for long. ;-)
Yeah, I found dejanews....etc.
Excuse the interruption! ;-) Bye, Stella......
John T. Engel
JTE responds:
My Dear Stellah:
It is never an interruption when you visit here. Your words and intent
have been very beneficial to myself and others.
JOhn
In <34B658...@pacbell.net> Stella Wirk <ste...@pacbell.net>
writes: