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Red Sea: Archaeologists Discover Remains of Egyptian Army From the Biblical Exodus
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r
Nov 6, 2014, 2:43:17 AM11/6/14
to
http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/red-sea-archaeologists-discover-remains-of-egyptian-army-from-the-biblical-exodus/
Suez| Egypt's Antiquities Ministry announced this morning that a team of underwater archaeologists had discovered that remains of a large Egyptian army from the 14th century BC, at the bottom of the Gulf of Suez, 1.5 kilometers offshore from the modern city of Ras Gharib. The team was searching for the remains of ancient ships and artefacts related to Stone Age and Bronze Age trade in the Red Sea area, when they stumbled upon a gigantic mass of human bones darkened by age.
The scientists lead by Professor Abdel Muhammad Gader and associated with Cairo University's Faculty of Archaeology, have already recovered a total of more than 400 different skeletons, as well as hundreds of weapons and pieces of armor, also the remains of two war chariots, scattered over an area of approximately 200 square meters. They estimate that more than 5000 other bodies could be dispersed over a wider area, suggesting that an army of large size who have perished on the site.
This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a highly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a richly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
Many clues on the site have brought Professor Gader and his team to conclude that the bodies could be linked to the famous episode of the Exodus. First of all, the ancient soldiers seem to have died on dry ground, since no traces of boats or ships have been found in the area. The positions of the bodies and the fact that they were stuck in a vast quantity of clay and rock, implie that they could have died in a mudslide or a tidal wave.
The shear number of bodies suggests that a large ancient army perished on the site and the dramatic way by which they were killed, both seem to corroborate the biblical version of the Red Sea Crossing, when the army of the Egyptian Pharaoh was destroyed by the returning waters that Moses had parted. This new find certainly proves that there was indeed an Egyptian army of large size that was destroyed by the waters of the Red Sea during the reign of King Akhenaten.
The famous biblical account of the "Red Sea Crossing" was dismisseded by many scholars and historians as more symbolic than historical.
For centuries, the famous biblical account of the "Red Sea Crossing" was dismissed by most scholars and historians as more symbolic than historical.
This astounding discovery brings undeniable scientific proof that one the most famous episodes of the Old Testament was indeed, based on an historical event. It brings a brand new perspective on a story that many historians have been considering for years as a work of fiction, and suggesting that other themes like the "Plagues of Egypt" could indeed have an historical base.
A lot more research and many more recovery operations are to be expected on the site over the next few years, as Professor Gader and his team have already announced their desire to retrieve the rest of the bodies and artefacts from was has turned out to be one of the richest archaeological underwater sites ever discovered.
Suez| Egypt's Antiquities Ministry announced this morning that a team of underwater archaeologists had discovered that remains of a large Egyptian army from the 14th century BC, at the bottom of the Gulf of Suez, 1.5 kilometers offshore from the modern city of Ras Gharib. The team was searching for the remains of ancient ships and artefacts related to Stone Age and Bronze Age trade in the Red Sea area, when they stumbled upon a gigantic mass of human bones darkened by age.
The scientists lead by Professor Abdel Muhammad Gader and associated with Cairo University's Faculty of Archaeology, have already recovered a total of more than 400 different skeletons, as well as hundreds of weapons and pieces of armor, also the remains of two war chariots, scattered over an area of approximately 200 square meters. They estimate that more than 5000 other bodies could be dispersed over a wider area, suggesting that an army of large size who have perished on the site.
This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a highly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a richly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
Many clues on the site have brought Professor Gader and his team to conclude that the bodies could be linked to the famous episode of the Exodus. First of all, the ancient soldiers seem to have died on dry ground, since no traces of boats or ships have been found in the area. The positions of the bodies and the fact that they were stuck in a vast quantity of clay and rock, implie that they could have died in a mudslide or a tidal wave.
The shear number of bodies suggests that a large ancient army perished on the site and the dramatic way by which they were killed, both seem to corroborate the biblical version of the Red Sea Crossing, when the army of the Egyptian Pharaoh was destroyed by the returning waters that Moses had parted. This new find certainly proves that there was indeed an Egyptian army of large size that was destroyed by the waters of the Red Sea during the reign of King Akhenaten.
The famous biblical account of the "Red Sea Crossing" was dismisseded by many scholars and historians as more symbolic than historical.
For centuries, the famous biblical account of the "Red Sea Crossing" was dismissed by most scholars and historians as more symbolic than historical.
This astounding discovery brings undeniable scientific proof that one the most famous episodes of the Old Testament was indeed, based on an historical event. It brings a brand new perspective on a story that many historians have been considering for years as a work of fiction, and suggesting that other themes like the "Plagues of Egypt" could indeed have an historical base.
A lot more research and many more recovery operations are to be expected on the site over the next few years, as Professor Gader and his team have already announced their desire to retrieve the rest of the bodies and artefacts from was has turned out to be one of the richest archaeological underwater sites ever discovered.
duke
Nov 6, 2014, 12:57:44 PM11/6/14
to
On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:43:16 -0800 (PST), r <roy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/red-sea-archaeologists-discover-remains-of-egyptian-army-from-the-biblical-exodus/
>Suez| Egypt's Antiquities Ministry announced this morning that a team of underwater archaeologists had discovered that remains of a large Egyptian army from the 14th century BC, at the bottom of the Gulf of Suez, 1.5 kilometers offshore from the modern city of Ras Gharib. The team was searching for the remains of ancient ships and artefacts related to Stone Age and Bronze Age trade in the Red Sea area, when they stumbled upon a gigantic mass of human bones darkened by age.
>The scientists lead by Professor Abdel Muhammad Gader and associated with Cairo University's Faculty of Archaeology, have already recovered a total of more than 400 different skeletons, as well as hundreds of weapons and pieces of armor, also the remains of two war chariots, scattered over an area of approximately 200 square meters. They estimate that more than 5000 other bodies could be dispersed over a wider area, suggesting that an army of large size who have perished on the site.
>This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a highly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
>This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a richly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
>Many clues on the site have brought Professor Gader and his team to conclude that the bodies could be linked to the famous episode of the Exodus. First of all, the ancient soldiers seem to have died on dry ground, since no traces of boats or ships have been found in the area. The positions of the bodies and the fact that they were stuck in a vast quantity of clay and rock, implie that they could have died in a mudslide or a tidal wave.
My understanding is also that a number of Roman chariots have been located. The
>http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/red-sea-archaeologists-discover-remains-of-egyptian-army-from-the-biblical-exodus/
>Suez| Egypt's Antiquities Ministry announced this morning that a team of underwater archaeologists had discovered that remains of a large Egyptian army from the 14th century BC, at the bottom of the Gulf of Suez, 1.5 kilometers offshore from the modern city of Ras Gharib. The team was searching for the remains of ancient ships and artefacts related to Stone Age and Bronze Age trade in the Red Sea area, when they stumbled upon a gigantic mass of human bones darkened by age.
>The scientists lead by Professor Abdel Muhammad Gader and associated with Cairo University's Faculty of Archaeology, have already recovered a total of more than 400 different skeletons, as well as hundreds of weapons and pieces of armor, also the remains of two war chariots, scattered over an area of approximately 200 square meters. They estimate that more than 5000 other bodies could be dispersed over a wider area, suggesting that an army of large size who have perished on the site.
>This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a highly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
>This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a richly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
>Many clues on the site have brought Professor Gader and his team to conclude that the bodies could be linked to the famous episode of the Exodus. First of all, the ancient soldiers seem to have died on dry ground, since no traces of boats or ships have been found in the area. The positions of the bodies and the fact that they were stuck in a vast quantity of clay and rock, implie that they could have died in a mudslide or a tidal wave.
latest theory that I've seen is that there is a "land bridge" at the site, or a
path of higher ground elevation. A strong east wind would expose the land
bridge that the Hebrew used and were followed by the Egyptian army. A sudden
shift in the wind would reflood the land bridge catching the Egyptians unaware.
I certainly can't support a wall of water appearing as God's hand like the
popular image, but a change in wind direction can easily be seen as the hand of
God.
>The shear number of bodies suggests that a large ancient army perished on the site and the dramatic way by which they were killed, both seem to corroborate the biblical version of the Red Sea Crossing, when the army of the Egyptian Pharaoh was destroyed by the returning waters that Moses had parted. This new find certainly proves that there was indeed an Egyptian army of large size that was destroyed by the waters of the Red Sea during the reign of King Akhenaten.
>The famous biblical account of the "Red Sea Crossing" was dismisseded by many scholars and historians as more symbolic than historical.
>
>For centuries, the famous biblical account of the "Red Sea Crossing" was dismissed by most scholars and historians as more symbolic than historical.
>
>This astounding discovery brings undeniable scientific proof that one the most famous episodes of the Old Testament was indeed, based on an historical event. It brings a brand new perspective on a story that many historians have been considering for years as a work of fiction, and suggesting that other themes like the "Plagues of Egypt" could indeed have an historical base.
>
>A lot more research and many more recovery operations are to be expected on the site over the next few years, as Professor Gader and his team have already announced their desire to retrieve the rest of the bodies and artefacts from was has turned out to be one of the richest archaeological underwater sites ever discovered.
>
>
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
r
Nov 6, 2014, 7:19:34 PM11/6/14
to
On Friday, 7 November 2014 04:57:44 UTC+11, duke wrote:
[If I remember correctly from years ago] there was a theory supported by sediment deposits that seismic event in the Mediterranean generated a body of water that wiped out the army.
> On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:43:16 -0800 (PST), r wrote:
>
> >http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/red-sea-archaeologists-discover-remains-of-egyptian-army-from-the-biblical-exodus/
>
> >Suez| Egypt's Antiquities Ministry announced this morning that a team of underwater archaeologists had discovered that remains of a large Egyptian army from the 14th century BC, at the bottom of the Gulf of Suez, 1.5 kilometers offshore from the modern city of Ras Gharib. The team was searching for the remains of ancient ships and artefacts related to Stone Age and Bronze Age trade in the Red Sea area, when they stumbled upon a gigantic mass of human bones darkened by age.
>
> >The scientists lead by Professor Abdel Muhammad Gader and associated with Cairo University's Faculty of Archaeology, have already recovered a total of more than 400 different skeletons, as well as hundreds of weapons and pieces of armor, also the remains of two war chariots, scattered over an area of approximately 200 square meters. They estimate that more than 5000 other bodies could be dispersed over a wider area, suggesting that an army of large size who have perished on the site.
> >This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a highly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
> >This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a richly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
>
> >Many clues on the site have brought Professor Gader and his team to conclude that the bodies could be linked to the famous episode of the Exodus. First of all, the ancient soldiers seem to have died on dry ground, since no traces of boats or ships have been found in the area. The positions of the bodies and the fact that they were stuck in a vast quantity of clay and rock, implie that they could have died in a mudslide or a tidal wave.
>
> My understanding is also that a number of Roman chariots have been located. The
> latest theory that I've seen is that there is a "land bridge" at the site, or a
> path of higher ground elevation. A strong east wind would expose the land
> bridge that the Hebrew used and were followed by the Egyptian army. A sudden
> shift in the wind would reflood the land bridge catching the Egyptians unaware.
> I certainly can't support a wall of water appearing as God's hand like the
> popular image, but a change in wind direction can easily be seen as the hand of
> God.
It's one of those conundrums where the Bible wants to paint the picture of God's miraculous hand, whereas we want to explain He has used natural means.
>
> >http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/red-sea-archaeologists-discover-remains-of-egyptian-army-from-the-biblical-exodus/
>
> >Suez| Egypt's Antiquities Ministry announced this morning that a team of underwater archaeologists had discovered that remains of a large Egyptian army from the 14th century BC, at the bottom of the Gulf of Suez, 1.5 kilometers offshore from the modern city of Ras Gharib. The team was searching for the remains of ancient ships and artefacts related to Stone Age and Bronze Age trade in the Red Sea area, when they stumbled upon a gigantic mass of human bones darkened by age.
>
> >The scientists lead by Professor Abdel Muhammad Gader and associated with Cairo University's Faculty of Archaeology, have already recovered a total of more than 400 different skeletons, as well as hundreds of weapons and pieces of armor, also the remains of two war chariots, scattered over an area of approximately 200 square meters. They estimate that more than 5000 other bodies could be dispersed over a wider area, suggesting that an army of large size who have perished on the site.
> >This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a highly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
> >This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a richly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
>
> >Many clues on the site have brought Professor Gader and his team to conclude that the bodies could be linked to the famous episode of the Exodus. First of all, the ancient soldiers seem to have died on dry ground, since no traces of boats or ships have been found in the area. The positions of the bodies and the fact that they were stuck in a vast quantity of clay and rock, implie that they could have died in a mudslide or a tidal wave.
>
> My understanding is also that a number of Roman chariots have been located. The
> latest theory that I've seen is that there is a "land bridge" at the site, or a
> path of higher ground elevation. A strong east wind would expose the land
> bridge that the Hebrew used and were followed by the Egyptian army. A sudden
> shift in the wind would reflood the land bridge catching the Egyptians unaware.
> I certainly can't support a wall of water appearing as God's hand like the
> popular image, but a change in wind direction can easily be seen as the hand of
> God.
[If I remember correctly from years ago] there was a theory supported by sediment deposits that seismic event in the Mediterranean generated a body of water that wiped out the army.
servant...*
Nov 6, 2014, 8:16:08 PM11/6/14
to
This is the same "news" source that brought us the newly found document
about an event not previously known in the life of Christ from a roman
historian. That was posted a short time ago.
When considering "world news daily", one might first consult its entry
here:
'A Guide to Fake News Websites'
http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/Fake-News/tp/A-Guide-to-Fake-News-Websites.01.htm
For example, another story on its page today is about a woman in denmark
marrying her horse.
Along the same theme about that "news" source and about this specific
"article":
'Not True: Remains of Ancient Egyptian Army Found in Red Sea'
http://badsatiretoday.com/ancient-egyptian-army-red-sea/
The "red sea" is by some scholars said to be better translated as "sea of
reeds", as here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yam_Suph
r
Nov 6, 2014, 8:49:39 PM11/6/14
to
On Friday, 7 November 2014 12:16:08 UTC+11, nor...@googlegroups.com wrote:
> This is the same "news" source that brought us the newly found document
> about an event not previously known in the life of Christ from a roman
> historian. That was posted a short time ago.
>
> When considering "world news daily", one might first consult its entry
> here:
>
> 'A Guide to Fake News Websites'
>
> http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/Fake-News/tp/A-Guide-to-Fake-News-Websites.01.htm
There was a 'find' some months ago of a Vatican document that gave some detail on Jesus' life. But, you're right, these 'finds' tend to come quite frequently as breaking news and we don't get results of peer reviews down the track. Often finding themselves listed in Snopes.
> This is the same "news" source that brought us the newly found document
> about an event not previously known in the life of Christ from a roman
> historian. That was posted a short time ago.
>
> When considering "world news daily", one might first consult its entry
> here:
>
> 'A Guide to Fake News Websites'
>
> http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/Fake-News/tp/A-Guide-to-Fake-News-Websites.01.htm
> For example, another story on its page today is about a woman in denmark
> marrying her horse.
>
> Along the same theme about that "news" source and about this specific
> "article":
>
> 'Not True: Remains of Ancient Egyptian Army Found in Red Sea'
>
> http://badsatiretoday.com/ancient-egyptian-army-red-sea/
>
> The "red sea" is by some scholars said to be better translated as "sea of
> reeds", as here:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yam_Suph
Message has been deleted
r
Nov 6, 2014, 9:29:48 PM11/6/14
to
On Friday, 7 November 2014 13:17:49 UTC+11, Indulge Yourself wrote:
> Try drowning the entire Egyptian army and destroying the
> Chariots in the sea of reeds.
>
> Plus, it would be a true miracle it the Israelites were able to
> walk across the sea of reeds on dry ground. As any fool would
> know, if the marsh were temporarily dried, the marching of 10's
> of thousands would have turned the ground back into mush.
I had never been comfortable with the red/reed theory. I'd prefer to take it as a miracle than looking for natural explanations.
> Chariots in the sea of reeds.
>
> Plus, it would be a true miracle it the Israelites were able to
> walk across the sea of reeds on dry ground. As any fool would
> know, if the marsh were temporarily dried, the marching of 10's
> of thousands would have turned the ground back into mush.
I had never been comfortable with the red/reed theory. I'd prefer to take it as a miracle than looking for natural explanations.
Message has been deleted
pyotr filipivich
Nov 7, 2014, 12:36:06 AM11/7/14
to
r <roy...@gmail.com> on Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:43:16 -0800 (PST) typed in
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/red-sea-archaeologists-discover-remains-of-egyptian-army-from-the-biblical-exodus/
Disclaimer
World News Daily Report is a news and political satire web
publication, which may or may not use real names, often in semi-real
or mostly fictitious ways. All news articles contained within
worldnewsdailyreport.com are fiction, and presumably fake news. Any
resemblance to the truth is purely coincidental, except for all
references to politicians and/or celebrities, in which case they are
based on real people, but still based almost entirely in fiction.
- See more at:
http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/disclaimer/#sthash.wu535eF9.dpuf
I do believe it was St Gregory who said that one must not lend
credence to everything found on the Internet.
Or was it St Nicolas.
--
pyotr
After the war two Army Chaplains were mustering out. The one said to
the other "Chaplain, it has been a real pleasure serving God with you.
You in your way, and I in His."
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/red-sea-archaeologists-discover-remains-of-egyptian-army-from-the-biblical-exodus/
Disclaimer
World News Daily Report is a news and political satire web
publication, which may or may not use real names, often in semi-real
or mostly fictitious ways. All news articles contained within
worldnewsdailyreport.com are fiction, and presumably fake news. Any
resemblance to the truth is purely coincidental, except for all
references to politicians and/or celebrities, in which case they are
based on real people, but still based almost entirely in fiction.
- See more at:
http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/disclaimer/#sthash.wu535eF9.dpuf
I do believe it was St Gregory who said that one must not lend
credence to everything found on the Internet.
Or was it St Nicolas.
--
pyotr
After the war two Army Chaplains were mustering out. The one said to
the other "Chaplain, it has been a real pleasure serving God with you.
You in your way, and I in His."
Servant
Nov 7, 2014, 10:08:39 AM11/7/14
to
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yam_Suph
>
>thnx muchly
"Try drowning the entire Egyptian army and destroying the Chariots in the
sea of reeds.
Plus, it would be a true miracle it the Israelites were able to walk across
the sea of reeds on dry ground. As any fool would know, if the marsh were
temporarily dried, the marching of 10's of thousands would have turned the
ground back into mush."
Servant
Nov 7, 2014, 10:25:03 AM11/7/14
to
"I had never been comfortable with the red/reed theory. I'd prefer to take
The miracle is not diminished by location. The link suggested various
water related locations in the area.
I found the same question addressed by a rabbi:
http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/273/Q1/
Message has been deleted
Servant
Nov 7, 2014, 1:21:11 PM11/7/14
to
The hebrew scripture in literal translation has it as "sea of reeds".
Which in any case makes no difference in the least. The location does not
diminish the miracle in the least.
Having now the confirmation the link was not consulted, the observation
stands.
pyotr filipivich
Nov 7, 2014, 1:28:45 PM11/7/14
to
Servant, ..* on 07 Nov 2014 15:07:29 GMT typed in
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
Hebrews had crossed over at a much shallower area, where the water had
only been less than six inches deep. One of his students then
proclaims "A miracle took place!" Which annoyed the professor, who
then repeated "Did I not just show that it was not a miracle? That
the seas had not 'parted'; the Hebrews had crossed in six inches of
water!" To which the student responded "of course you did. That
wasn't the miracle. The real miracle is that the Egyptian army
drowned in six inches of water!"
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yam_Suph>>
>>thnx muchly
>
>"Try drowning the entire Egyptian army and destroying the Chariots in the
>sea of reeds.
>
>Plus, it would be a true miracle it the Israelites were able to walk across
>the sea of reeds on dry ground. As any fool would know, if the marsh were
>temporarily dried, the marching of 10's of thousands would have turned the
>ground back into mush."
There is an old story of the Professor who "proved" that the
>>thnx muchly
>
>"Try drowning the entire Egyptian army and destroying the Chariots in the
>sea of reeds.
>
>Plus, it would be a true miracle it the Israelites were able to walk across
>the sea of reeds on dry ground. As any fool would know, if the marsh were
>temporarily dried, the marching of 10's of thousands would have turned the
>ground back into mush."
Hebrews had crossed over at a much shallower area, where the water had
only been less than six inches deep. One of his students then
proclaims "A miracle took place!" Which annoyed the professor, who
then repeated "Did I not just show that it was not a miracle? That
the seas had not 'parted'; the Hebrews had crossed in six inches of
water!" To which the student responded "of course you did. That
wasn't the miracle. The real miracle is that the Egyptian army
drowned in six inches of water!"
Message has been deleted
r
Nov 7, 2014, 1:43:27 PM11/7/14
to
On Friday, 7 November 2014 16:36:06 UTC+11, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> r on Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:43:16 -0800 (PST) typed in
> r on Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:43:16 -0800 (PST) typed in
> alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> >http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/red-sea-archaeologists-discover-remains-of-egyptian-army-from-the-biblical-exodus/
>
> Disclaimer
>
> World News Daily Report is a news and political satire web
> publication, which may or may not use real names, often in semi-real
> or mostly fictitious ways. All news articles contained within
> worldnewsdailyreport.com are fiction, and presumably fake news. Any
> resemblance to the truth is purely coincidental, except for all
> references to politicians and/or celebrities, in which case they are
> based on real people, but still based almost entirely in fiction.
> - See more at:
> http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/disclaimer/#sthash.wu535eF9.dpuf
thnx muchly
> >http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/red-sea-archaeologists-discover-remains-of-egyptian-army-from-the-biblical-exodus/
>
> Disclaimer
>
> World News Daily Report is a news and political satire web
> publication, which may or may not use real names, often in semi-real
> or mostly fictitious ways. All news articles contained within
> worldnewsdailyreport.com are fiction, and presumably fake news. Any
> resemblance to the truth is purely coincidental, except for all
> references to politicians and/or celebrities, in which case they are
> based on real people, but still based almost entirely in fiction.
> - See more at:
> http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/disclaimer/#sthash.wu535eF9.dpuf
Servant
Nov 7, 2014, 2:51:14 PM11/7/14
to
Indulge going to strongs again for the straight dope:
1b) sea of rushes
1b1) of Red Sea
1b2) of arms of Red Sea
1b3) of Gulf of Suez
1b4) of sea from straits to Gulf of Akaba
soof
Probably of Egyptian origin; a reed, especially the papyrus: -
flag. Red [sea], weed. Compare H5489.
"What you preferred is a backpouring into scripture, by non-spiritual
people. Your source of wisdom."
Shrug, and in another post I gave the view of a jewish rabbi on the literal
translation, reed it is he said.
"it can fit various subjects. "
And the very strongs mentioned has as big as life "reed" as the very first
thing given . So why choose a secondary varient?
"You prefer to pick out
a place not deep enough to drown a man in a chariot, or one riding a
horse."
How is this known as the exact location is not given? I prefer nothing, it
is there for the scholars to discuss and strongs to support.
"I could go through a whole litany of variables, but why? The description
by Moses suffices."
One notes that such proposed "variables" are not given in scripture nor to
location. Even if the "red sea" that is a very long sea with its head in
the areas with reeds might have been the location.
Moses is silent on the details.
So the proposed "variables" would be the opinion of an individual
uninformed on the topic, no?
It appears a minor quibble in defence of traditional english translations
instead of a serious consideration of the topic. Which topic is not
relevant to understanding the message of scripture.
duke
Nov 7, 2014, 3:05:27 PM11/7/14
to
On Thu, 6 Nov 2014 16:19:32 -0800 (PST), r <roy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Friday, 7 November 2014 04:57:44 UTC+11, duke wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:43:16 -0800 (PST), r wrote:
>>
>> >http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/red-sea-archaeologists-discover-remains-of-egyptian-army-from-the-biblical-exodus/
>>
>> >Suez| Egypt's Antiquities Ministry announced this morning that a team of underwater archaeologists had discovered that remains of a large Egyptian army from the 14th century BC, at the bottom of the Gulf of Suez, 1.5 kilometers offshore from the modern city of Ras Gharib. The team was searching for the remains of ancient ships and artefacts related to Stone Age and Bronze Age trade in the Red Sea area, when they stumbled upon a gigantic mass of human bones darkened by age.
>>
>> >The scientists lead by Professor Abdel Muhammad Gader and associated with Cairo University's Faculty of Archaeology, have already recovered a total of more than 400 different skeletons, as well as hundreds of weapons and pieces of armor, also the remains of two war chariots, scattered over an area of approximately 200 square meters. They estimate that more than 5000 other bodies could be dispersed over a wider area, suggesting that an army of large size who have perished on the site.
>> >This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a highly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
>> >This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a richly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
>>
>> >Many clues on the site have brought Professor Gader and his team to conclude that the bodies could be linked to the famous episode of the Exodus. First of all, the ancient soldiers seem to have died on dry ground, since no traces of boats or ships have been found in the area. The positions of the bodies and the fact that they were stuck in a vast quantity of clay and rock, implie that they could have died in a mudslide or a tidal wave.
>>
>> My understanding is also that a number of Roman chariots have been located. The
>> latest theory that I've seen is that there is a "land bridge" at the site, or a
>> path of higher ground elevation. A strong east wind would expose the land
>> bridge that the Hebrew used and were followed by the Egyptian army. A sudden
>> shift in the wind would reflood the land bridge catching the Egyptians unaware.
>> I certainly can't support a wall of water appearing as God's hand like the
>> popular image, but a change in wind direction can easily be seen as the hand of
>> God.
>
>It's one of those conundrums where the Bible wants to paint the picture of God's miraculous hand, whereas we want to explain He has used natural means.
Actually, I don't think it's a matter of the "bible wanting anything". Some
>On Friday, 7 November 2014 04:57:44 UTC+11, duke wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:43:16 -0800 (PST), r wrote:
>>
>> >http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/red-sea-archaeologists-discover-remains-of-egyptian-army-from-the-biblical-exodus/
>>
>> >Suez| Egypt's Antiquities Ministry announced this morning that a team of underwater archaeologists had discovered that remains of a large Egyptian army from the 14th century BC, at the bottom of the Gulf of Suez, 1.5 kilometers offshore from the modern city of Ras Gharib. The team was searching for the remains of ancient ships and artefacts related to Stone Age and Bronze Age trade in the Red Sea area, when they stumbled upon a gigantic mass of human bones darkened by age.
>>
>> >The scientists lead by Professor Abdel Muhammad Gader and associated with Cairo University's Faculty of Archaeology, have already recovered a total of more than 400 different skeletons, as well as hundreds of weapons and pieces of armor, also the remains of two war chariots, scattered over an area of approximately 200 square meters. They estimate that more than 5000 other bodies could be dispersed over a wider area, suggesting that an army of large size who have perished on the site.
>> >This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a highly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
>> >This magnificient blade from an egyptian khopesh, was certainly the weapon of an important character. It was discovered near the remains of a richly decorated war chariot, suggesting it could have belonged to a prince or nobleman.
>>
>> >Many clues on the site have brought Professor Gader and his team to conclude that the bodies could be linked to the famous episode of the Exodus. First of all, the ancient soldiers seem to have died on dry ground, since no traces of boats or ships have been found in the area. The positions of the bodies and the fact that they were stuck in a vast quantity of clay and rock, implie that they could have died in a mudslide or a tidal wave.
>>
>> My understanding is also that a number of Roman chariots have been located. The
>> latest theory that I've seen is that there is a "land bridge" at the site, or a
>> path of higher ground elevation. A strong east wind would expose the land
>> bridge that the Hebrew used and were followed by the Egyptian army. A sudden
>> shift in the wind would reflood the land bridge catching the Egyptians unaware.
>> I certainly can't support a wall of water appearing as God's hand like the
>> popular image, but a change in wind direction can easily be seen as the hand of
>> God.
>
>It's one of those conundrums where the Bible wants to paint the picture of God's miraculous hand, whereas we want to explain He has used natural means.
writers paint a picture of a great trench of water held back. That would be
black magic on God's part. I don't believe in a God like that. But in life,
many things happen - some good and some bad with no explanation. And people say
it's a miracle. But what is a miracle but a physical happening with no
explanation. Hence it was God.
Did God part the waters? Did God case the east wind to come up? Nobody knows.
It happened.
>[If I remember correctly from years ago] there was a theory supported by sediment deposits that seismic event in the Mediterranean generated a body of water that wiped out the army.
duke
Nov 7, 2014, 3:10:39 PM11/7/14
to
stand little change charging headon at full speed into a swamp.
>> Plus, it would be a true miracle it the Israelites were able to
>> walk across the sea of reeds on dry ground. As any fool would
>> know, if the marsh were temporarily dried, the marching of 10's
>> of thousands would have turned the ground back into mush.
>
>I had never been comfortable with the red/reed theory. I'd prefer to take it as a miracle than looking for natural explanations.
duke
Nov 7, 2014, 3:11:36 PM11/7/14
to
On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 19:45:27 -0800, Indulge Yourself <ind...@rel.org> wrote:
>On Thu, 6 Nov 2014 18:29:46 -0800 (PST), r <roy...@gmail.com>
>On Thu, 6 Nov 2014 18:29:46 -0800 (PST), r <roy...@gmail.com>
God didn't write the bible - imaginative men did.
many religions are made up
>of mans theories / theologies.
Up from the Abyss
Nov 7, 2014, 4:10:36 PM11/7/14
to
Pete "Indulge Yourself" wrote:
> Servant, ..* wrote:
> >
> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yam_Suph
<snip>
> > The hebrew scripture in literal translation has it as "sea
> > of reeds". Which in any case makes no difference in
> > the least. The location does not diminish the miracle in
> > the least.
> >
> > Having now the confirmation the link was not consulted,
> > the observation stands.
>
>
> H5488
> su?ph
> BDB Definition:
> 1) reed, rush, water plant
> 1a) rushes
> 1b) sea of rushes
> 1b1) of Red Sea
> 1b2) of arms of Red Sea
> 1b3) of Gulf of Suez
> 1b4) of sea from straits to Gulf of Akaba
>
> soof
> Probably of Egyptian origin; a reed, especially the papyrus: -
> flag. Red [sea], weed. Compare H5489.
OMFG!!! Oh shit! I meant OMA!
> 1b1) of Red Sea
> 1b2) of arms of Red Sea
> 1b3) of Gulf of Suez
> 1b4) of sea from straits to Gulf of Akaba
>
> soof
> Probably of Egyptian origin; a reed, especially the papyrus: -
> flag. Red [sea], weed. Compare H5489.
You're an idiot. You are arguing that "red" must be
correct, when both Hebrew and Greek have words
for "red", but in neither language are those words
used.
It is a seaweed, *if* suph is of Arabic origin. However
if it is of Egyptian origin, then it is a reed or rush.
As the article that Servant cited stated: Suph is used in
Shemot 2:3, clearly indicative of "reeds" and not "red".
As they were just coming out of 430 years in Mitzraim,
that it is of Egpytian origin is very possible.
> What you preferred is a backpouring into scripture,
> by non-spiritual people. Your source of wisdom.
non-spiritual. As though you are spiritual and therefore
it must be "red".
You're an idiot meaninglessly arguing over words.
1Ti 6:3 If any man teacheth a different doctrine, and
consenteth not to sound words, even the words of
our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is
according to godliness; 4 he is puffed up, knowing
nothing, but doting about questionings and disputes of
words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil
surmisings, 5 wranglings of men corrupted in mind and
bereft of the truth, supposing that godliness is a way of
gain.
Notice in the above, consenting not even to the words
of your "Lord Jesus Christ". Which you in fact do,
excusing yourself of them being applicable to you.
2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance,
charging them in the sight of the Lord, that they strive
not about words, to no profit, to the subverting of them
that hear.
What an idiot...
<snip>
Servant
Nov 7, 2014, 4:13:14 PM11/7/14
to
This is from the journal of:
'Associates For Biblical Research'
This is an evangelical protestant group who describe what they do as a
"ministry" whose goal is to demonstrate the historical valitity of the OT.
'New Evidence from Egypt on the Location of the Exodus Sea'
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2008/08/new-evidence-from-egypt-on-the-location-of-the-exodus-sea-crossing-part-i.aspx
One question I had even before reading it is the source of the substitution
of "red" for the hebrew "reed" word. They mention in hebrew it is found
some 20 times in the OT as "reed" even where it has nothing to do with the
account of it being crossed with egyptians in pursuit. The author says
this is the concensus of conservative and liberal scholars on the topic.
The answer is the greek translation of the OT known aas the lxx. That is
where the "red" appears using a very different word then "reed" if back
translated into hebrew. There is a hebrew "red" of course and the exodus
and 20 something other examples account is not it.
The latin vulgate took the lxx translation and thus into all subsequent
english translations, or the rest is history as they say.
The bulk of the journal article is given over to trying to decide where and
what it might have been if not the "red sea" based on what is known from
the OTand historical evidence at hand. His proposed conclusion will be a
surprise.
Message has been deleted
servant...*
Nov 7, 2014, 6:27:05 PM11/7/14
to
Consult the new thread introduced on the topic, then get back to us.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Servant
Nov 8, 2014, 10:11:03 AM11/8/14
to
>Consult the new thread introduced on the topic, then get back to us.
"There isn't anything to discuss, and the orthodox has no say over the Old
Testament,"
The article in question is in an evangelical journal. Get back to us.
Find in the article the origin of the error in translation of "red" for
"reed". Then get backto us.
Message has been deleted
servant...*
Nov 8, 2014, 12:19:11 PM11/8/14
to
word both as Red or Reed, per Hebrew scholars."
One point made in the article is that scholars of all kinds agree it is an
error.
"If you don't like that then take it up with God the Father."
Hmmm, someone different then strongs?
One other point made in the article is for the 20 or so uses of the same
word in the OT it is also "reed" in the hebrew.
It appears a matter of "don't confuse me with the facts", no?
servant
Nov 8, 2014, 2:38:55 PM11/8/14
to
duke
Nov 9, 2014, 12:47:54 PM11/9/14
to
generally form a point of interest of the exodus. The swampy waters to the
north towards the Mediterranean is more likely.
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