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Riefenstahl film on PBS

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Vicki Richman

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Jul 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/14/96

Well, PBS finally showed Leni Riefenstahl's film documentary
of the 1936 Olympic games. It had been censored by
gentlemen's agreement in much of the world, apparently
because it won an award from the Nazi government and showed
Hitler in pleasant moods.

It's better as a work of art than a documentary. There's a
surreal balletic prologue with substantial male and female
nudity. It belongs on anyone's top-100 list, and perhaps
top-25.

Calling it Nazi propaganda is nonsense. Riefenstahl did not
express or imply criticism of Hitler's government and
submitted to Nazi authority in filming it. That does not
make it propaganda. In fact, Riefenstahl showed the U.S.
athletes refusing to salute Hitler or dip their flag to
him. She showed Jesse Owens humbling the top German in the
high jump.

But, before PBS, commercial outlets showed only clips from
the film, with voiceovers apologizing for it. We let our
hatred of the Nazis deny us one of the great documents of
the 20th century.

Even PBS felt compelled to show a biography of Riefenstahl,
in which she rationalizes her connection to Hitler, before
showing her masterpiece.

Censhorship, even of the Nazis, hurts us all.

--
Vicki Richman vic...@panix.com National Writers Union
Bedford, Brooklyn NY PGP 2.6 UAW Local 1981, AFL/CIO
"Some will rob you with a six-gun, and some with a fountain pen."
-Woody Guthrie

Nora Helmer

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Jul 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/15/96

On 14 Jul 1996 18:01:16 -0400, vic...@panix.com (Vicki Richman)
wrote in posting <4sbqnc$p...@panix2.panix.com>:

What is with you North Americans? You think you are most of the world???
No, no. The Riefenstahl Olympiad is one of the most popular cinema here in
Norway. Censored in USA maybe. Never censored here. We watch it on the
telly every time there is olympic games and maybe before other major
track-field.

Congrats on the North American discovery of the obvious.

The glorious ballet at start is a celebration of human body. Leni was
first to show women flexing muscular high-definition. Fatty tissue of
breasts are never hiding tight pectorals. No makeup. No soft light. Just
strength and sweat. Final marathon is real. It is not ballet but Leni is
showing marathon to become dance of joy. Dubbed music is transforming
physical endurance and power to become triumph of human will and
imagination.

Sure USA government isn't censoring art. This is never necessary for you.
Jesse James, unabomber, montana militia. These are names for your
corporate raiders. Your heros. They do the censorship for you.

You think censorship is ok if you censor stuff that have approval from
other censors??? You still don't get it.

Nora Helmer Dollhouse Demolition, Unlimited nor...@ibsen.no

Gary Goodman

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96

Vicki, you mean well (I hope) but...

VI>Well, PBS finally showed Leni Riefenstahl's film documentary
VI>of the 1936 Olympic games. It had been censored by
VI>gentlemen's agreement in much of the world, apparently
VI>because it won an award from the Nazi government and showed
VI>Hitler in pleasant moods.

Partially, but the nudes also helped kept it off the air. PBS has become
very straight-laced since being bought out. It has been freely available
at museums, art theatres and, like where I say it, film societies and
classes at colleges for decades.

It was also official Nazi propaganda. Bought and paid for and done
completely to order. Leni may have wanted to deny it and did so starting
when she did go to Hollywood (where she was called Hitler's whore) but
denying do not make it anything other than Nazi agitprop! Just very very
very good agitprop.

That FACT (and if you want to argue this you will look very silly
indeed) didn't help get it shown much on broadcast TV about anywhere.
But it HAS been shown (parts of it appear nearly ever Olympics) and very
well known to even idle film watchers, and very well known to film
buffs. Whereas the Nazi's The Eternal Jew is very hard to catch -- but
then it was a stinker.

VI>It's better as a work of art than a documentary. There's a
VI>surreal balletic prologue with substantial male and female
VI>nudity. It belongs on anyone's top-100 list, and perhaps
VI>top-25.

Actually it is considered a first-rate documentary. You are just used to
el cheapo slap and dash TV documentaries. Check out Nanook of the North.
Or any 20's or 30's era documentaries. Many were somewhat surreal.

But yes it IS a great film. And terrific (in every meaning) propaganda.

VI>Calling it Nazi propaganda is nonsense. Riefenstahl did not
VI>express or imply criticism of Hitler's government and
VI>submitted to Nazi authority in filming it. That does not
VI>make it propaganda. In fact, Riefenstahl showed the U.S.
VI>athletes refusing to salute Hitler or dip their flag to
VI>him. She showed Jesse Owens humbling the top German in the
VI>high jump.

No Vicki you are completely wrong here. So wrong I do not know where you
got this shit. Having been reading Spotlight of The New American I hope.
National Vanguard perhaps? Certainly not from any real research of
knowledge.

It was (and is) indeed Nazi propaganda. It just happened to be not only
GREAT Nazi propaganda but great film art as well. And it was edited to
reflect well on Nazi Germany, and fool the gullible -- like yourself I
am sorry to note.

So good Leni was cut a lot of slack. But it was 99% BS -- like the
whitewashing of the Jew-ban fuss. Or the prosperity of Germany, even the
German crowds were staged so they were all well-fed, well dressed Aryan
types. COME ON VICKI!

It was great BS! Maybe THE best BS film ever made.

That plus the fact she was then Hitler's girlfriend. Nothing like
blowing the Fuhrer to get ya perks! Like getting to show your bare
grade- A behind in that prologue.

She WAS a great film-maker as well as a rabid Nazi. And Hitler's
mistress (according to everyone BUT her! But she was a great liar --
look at her films!). The integrity of the film (and the cooperation of
both the Olympic committee and later of foreign film boards) meant that
certain sequences HAD to be shown. But other events where "Nordics"
didn't do so well were not well represented.

But this selectivity is mandated by the medium -- Olympics 8, another
great documentary had to focus on eight athletes. You can squeeze just
so much in. Or at least it makes a good excuse.

Riefenstahl, famous mostly as a Ski Babe in "mountain films" had finally
got to make a movie herself, The Blue Light, when she meet Herr Fuhrer
at a party at Goebbels in 1932, Hitler had been impressed with her
movie's simplistic and mystic idealism and visual splendor. Exactly what
he wanted in his Nazi propaganda!

Hitler (who was amazingly a real lady-killer -- but then look at pictures
of those men who marry, and sometimes kill, dozens of women -- they
ain't exactly Mel Gibsons either. Must be glands or something.) wound
up latter at her fancy pad and the gang left them alone...

The torrid affair still continued when Hitler became Chancellor a year
later. She was famous as "Hitler's sweetheart" and even Goring backed
down before "the sex symbol of the Third Reich." She wasn't Jewish BTW,
no matter the rumors.

Hitler told Leni right after getting control of Germany; "I want to
exploit the film as an instrument of propaganda in such a way that the
audience will be clearly aware that on such occasions they are going to
see a political film. It nauseates me when I find political propaganda
hiding under the cloak of art. Let it be either art or politics." (NYT
April 16, 1944, sec 4, pg 2)

Whoops.

Leni cut her propaganda teeth with her incredible Triumph of the Will
(which you failed to mention, and is also little shown on mass-media --
but easily available). She made many enemies (especially her once pal
Goebbels) from the jealous Nazis all jockeying to be the Fuhrer's fair
haired boys, by demanding total control of the filming of the 1934
Nuremberg rally. Then she rubbed their noses in it by creating a truly
great film -- and incredibly good piece of propaganda!

Hitler, who while only so-so as a painter, was actually a damned good
designer. Probably would have made a decent director himself. Or a
first-rate producer (or actually he DID!). And a master of showmanship
worked VERY closely with Leni on this film. The entire event staged for
the film. Speer too contributed a lot of talent, though it was actually
Hitler, not Albert, who come up with the cathedral of light gimmick --
based upon some earlier experiments at rallies (noticing the effects of
car headlights sometimes used to illuminate the speakers at night) and so
created the first light/laser show!

Hitler loved the result. Had it shown all over the country and it had a
major affect upon the development of country-wide (rather than Bavarian
mainly) support for the NSDAP (Nazi) party. It was SO good the Army was
jealous, so Leni had to quickly make Day of Freedom (Tag der Freheit)
which as far as I know the Russians have yet to release copies from their
sole remaining copy. Fuss at them Vicki!

Triumph won the German National Film Prize in 35 and the Italian in 36.
And Leni became the official top film maker for the Nazis and the
Department of Propaganda (with the help of Goebbels who knew when to
grin as long as she was baring it to you know who).

So with the prizes in hand (as well as Adolf's privates) she got all the
money and FULL support of the German government and the Nazi Party for
her filming of the 36 Olympic Games. The whole idea from the start was
to present the image of a strong freedom-loving Germany, fully united
behind the kind and wise Fuhrer. Who supervised the filming as was in
effect the executive producer.

Almost none of which "facts" about Germany or Hitler were actually true.

Which makes this a fine example of Black propaganda -- selling a lie.
And you seem to have bought into it Vicki!

The actual anti-Semitism that was edited out, in fact came very close to
losing Germany the Games. Jews had been long forbidden membership in
gymnastic organizations (VERY big things in Germany), not allowed in
public or most private swimming pools, play grounds, veteran's groups,
ski resorts, etc. After tossing out Dr. Lewald as president of the
German Olympic committee, and replacing the designer of the Village,
because they were tainted by Jew-blood, the head of the Olympics, Count
Henri Baillet-Latour was ready to cancel the Games!

Hitler fussed and fumed and blustered but backed down and the No Jews
Allowed signs came down. Until the day after the Games ended.

Olympiad had to succeed (as German film critic Erwin Goelz put it)
"because Germany created for the Olympic Games of 1936 a wonderfully
perceived symbolic framework that from the very beginning elevated the
games above a mere sport report. Only in the ideological structure of
National Socialism could this great documentary film have come into
being as an artistic achievement."

The Games were carefully staged for maximum visual effect. The equivalent
of many many megabucks spent to film it (exact figures unknown as a lot
of creative bookkeeping -- like in most high budget films -- took place
and hidden in budgets all over the place, but it wasn't cheap!). Leni,
perhaps suspecting this was her one true chance at immortality, threw
out the usual Nazi handbook and shot everyone. Brought back the old
Greek torch runs that weren't specific to the Games (and inspired also
by the torches in Triumph), and really put the Games on the map.

The prologue was shot as a separate part by anti-Nazi cameraman Willy
Zielke and was the porn-loving Hitler's favorite part (supposedly wearing
out several copies rerunning it at Wolf's Lair), instantly spotting his
girlfriend when he first saw her full nude backside in the premier and
murmuring "Leni!"

Olympiad was instantly translated by Goebbels (who fought to keep the
Jesse Owens' bit in the film when others wanted to cut it -- he figured
the naive would think it was a sign of the film's "honesty" -- sorry
Vicki) into 16 languages and hundreds of copies given away around the
world. But Leni had served her purpose and never made another worthwhile
film when Hitler moved on to other tootsies. She was razzed when she
came to Hollywood right after and has been apologizing for her Nazi
films ever since, even after death it seems.

VI>But, before PBS, commercial outlets showed only clips from
VI>the film, with voiceovers apologizing for it. We let our
VI>hatred of the Nazis deny us one of the great documents of
VI>the 20th century.

It WAS available. Several sources sell videotapes. Regularly shown in
film groups. I've seen it at least once before on a PBS station (it WAS
available to individual stations) A LOT of great movies never seem to
get shown. Seen the Blue Angel, Intolerance, Pabst's The Street. or
Sunset much? Salt of the Earth? The Spanish original Dracula (filmed at
the same time as the English) that many call better made? I had to wait
for 30 years to finally get to see Whales' The Old Dark House for pity's
sake.

Yes, of course that it was such blatant Nazi propaganda hurt. But some
of the worse examples of WW1 & WW2 British and America propaganda are
near impossible to see (like a certain Donald Duck cartoon that is
supposed to be great!). And much of that you wouldn't want to see also.
You didn't mention them.

MOST movies are propaganda as much as narrative. Any good course in
film would make this clear. Or a good book of criticism.

PLEASE tell us you do NOT do film reviews!

VI>Even PBS felt compelled to show a biography of Riefenstahl,
VI>in which she rationalizes her connection to Hitler, before
VI>showing her masterpiece.

Context is important. Obviously you didn't have enough or you would have
NEVER made as absurd, unhistoric or addle-brained a remark as "Calling
it Nazi propaganda is nonsense." It WAS very much and in every way Nazi
propaganda -- they knew full well ignorant people like you would be
fooled. And 60 years latter it is still making fools out of persons who
really ought to know better!

Maybe PBS was right not to show it before now. Or at all if THIS kind of
ill-informed BS is the result.

see:

David Stuart Hull. Film in the Third Reich. 1969

Glenn Infield. Leni Riefenstahl: the Fallen Film Goddess. 1976

and most good film histories and books on Nazi propaganda.

As a fellow journalist Vicki, I gotta say you blew this one.

BIG TIME!

Don't you RESEARCH your stories?

Gary D. Goodman
[|8{) self portrait (recognizable!)
s...@TANK.RGS.UKY.EDU
Pentad Communications McDaniels, KY

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

"Man is _not_ conditioned and determined; he determines himself whether
to give in conditions stand up to them. In other words, man is
ultimately self-determining... every human being has the freedom to
change at any instant."
-- Viktor E. Frankl. Man's Search for Meaning. 1963, pp. 206-207

T Bruce Tober

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96

In article <4sge4t$k...@panix2.panix.com>, Vicki Richman
<vic...@panix.com> writes

[major snip]
>
>Where are you living anyway? I have never figured out where
>you went after you left Torvald.

ROTFLMGO. Great post.

tbt
--
| Bruce Tober - octob...@reporters.net - Birmingham, England |
| pgp key ID 0x9E014CE9. For CV/Resume:http://pollux.com/authors/tober.htm |
| For CV/Resume and Clips: http://nwsmait.intermarket.com/nmfwc/tbt.htm |
| |
| "Just as the strength of the Internet is chaos, so the strength of our |
| liberty depends upon the chaos and cacophony of the unfettered speech the|
| First Amendment protects." -- three wise federal judges |

Vicki Richman

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96

On 16 Jul 1996 00:08:18 EDT, in
<8374901...@tank.rgs.uky.edu>, Gary Goodman
(s...@tank.rgs.uky.edu) wrote:

> Actually it is considered a first-rate documentary. You are just used to
> el cheapo slap and dash TV documentaries. Check out Nanook of the North.
> Or any 20's or 30's era documentaries. Many were somewhat surreal.

Current film-documentary makers have largely rejected
_Nanook of the North_ and most other pre-WWII documentaries
for including scenes staged and directed. The films
typically differed from fiction only in that the performers
were not professional actors, and they worked from no
written script.

The scripted narration for those early "documentaries" was
often fiction masquerading as reportage.

Leni Riefenstahl's work certainly falls into that category,
although she raised it to its highest level, analogous to a
prose poem in print. The argument that she did propaganda is
specious. What documentary maker of that era was not making
a point to serve higher interests? American documentaries
typically "proved" the inferiority of non-European cultures.
Filmmakers are guns for hire; they are not lonely
poets. Leni was working for what turned out to be the wrong
side, but she did her job very well.

Documentary makers now consider themselves journalists or
historians. They even lose voiceover, letting the filmed
record speak for itself. They are still guns for hire, but
they try to find academic or apolitical patrons, like news
services or foundations.

Anyway, I don't disagree with much of what this poster has
said. But I wonder if he misses my point. The tacit,
unofficial censorship of Leni Riefenstahl's work -- hateful
as it to us -- deprived us of judging for ourselves.I was
attacking censorship more than praising Riefenstahl.

I'm pleased to see that my local video store has one of her
more overtly propagandistic pieces.

--
Vicki Richman vic...@panix.com National Writers Union
Bedford, Brooklyn NY PGP 2.6 UAW Local 1981, AFL/CIO

"If I listen to too much Wagner, I get the urge to conquer Poland."
-Woody Allen

Gary Goodman

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96

NO>On 14 Jul 1996 18:01:16 -0400, vic...@panix.com (Vicki Richman)
NO>wrote in posting <4sbqnc$p...@panix2.panix.com>:

NO>What is with you North Americans? You think you are most of the world???
NO>No, no. The Riefenstahl Olympiad is one of the most popular cinema here in
NO>Norway. Censored in USA maybe. Never censored here. We watch it on the
NO>telly every time there is olympic games and maybe before other major
NO>track-field.

Explains a lot...

And Vicki was full of it. I've seen it UNCUT on TV years ago. Individual
stations have shown it. It was available for rental. Shown regularly in
film clubs...

NO>Congrats on the North American discovery of the obvious.

NO>The glorious ballet at start is a celebration of human body. Leni was
NO>first to show women flexing muscular high-definition. Fatty tissue of
NO>breasts are never hiding tight pectorals. No makeup. No soft light. Just
NO>strength and sweat. Final marathon is real. It is not ballet but Leni is
NO>showing marathon to become dance of joy. Dubbed music is transforming
NO>physical endurance and power to become triumph of human will and
NO>imagination.

That was filmed as a separate part by a non Nazi. One of those babes was
Leni herself BTW. But the rest WAS Nazi propaganda. Just damned good
agit-prop.

NO>Sure USA government isn't censoring art. This is never necessary for you.
NO>Jesse James, unabomber, montana militia. These are names for your
NO>corporate raiders. Your heros. They do the censorship for you.

Actually it isn't censorship so much as it is CORPORATE control. Public
TV hasn't been PUBLIC here in the US for decades.

The sponsors making loot off the Games didn't want a fuss -- hell did
you here the good people of Atlanta, GA didn't want the torch-lighting
at the LA Olympic Stadium shown on TV because of the nude statues
everyone saw all during the LA Games?

They were laughed at across the country. And red faced backed off.

Like what happens when the genophobes try to censor video rental stores.
THEN people get outraged. And say fuck off.

NO>You think censorship is ok if you censor stuff that have approval from
NO>other censors??? You still don't get it.

Some of us do. Maybe most. But whose got the Gold decides what the
Masses can be allowed to see.

Vicki Richman

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96

On Mon, 15 Jul 1996 23:54:16 GMT, in
<norhelm.00891167.r3$w#w...@dollhouse.ibsen.no>, Nora Helmer
(nor...@ibsen.no) wrote:

> What is with you North Americans? You think you are most of the world???

> No, no.

Nora, dear, it's highly inappropriate for fictional
characters to flame real people on the Internet.

Did you forget to take your Net Manual when you left
Torvald? Besides, what was your problem, anyway? I thought
he was pretty neat, as husbands go.

Your post suggests that you wish you had been created by
Leni Riefenstahl instead of a dead white male. You have a
problem. A healthy fictional character does not look for
another author. Be content with the author you were given.

You have posted to alt.censorship and
alt.union.natl-writers. Your dissatisfaction with your own
author may be construed as censorship and is a violation of
National Writers Union rules. Expect a picket line around
your house.

Where are you living anyway? I have never figured out where
you went after you left Torvald.

Sven Noltemeier

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96

In article <4sbqnc$p...@panix2.panix.com>,
vic...@panix.com (Vicki Richman) writes:

|> Well, PBS finally showed Leni Riefenstahl's film documentary

|> of the 1936 Olympic games. It had been censored by

|> gentlemen's agreement in much of the world, apparently

|> because it won an award from the Nazi government and showed

|> Hitler in pleasant moods.

I think it's more because of a supposed seductive effect, at least
here in Germany, and because it supported the Nazi ideology.

|> It's better as a work of art than a documentary. There's a

|> surreal balletic prologue with substantial male and female

|> nudity. It belongs on anyone's top-100 list, and perhaps

|> top-25.

It is Nazi body cult at its best (or worst). The surreal nude "Aryans"
practizing beautiful body exercizes, founded in an antique and nordic
myth.

You better remember that this greatly serves the task of giving a
counterpart to the opposite image of the "dirty, ugly, mean Jew".

|> Calling it Nazi propaganda is nonsense.

It is "positive" Nazi propaganda, and it is good propaganda, as it is
a wonderful piece of art. It was ground-breaking in its effects.

It fit perfectly the Nazi agenda and propaganda, so it is understandable
that the TV stations don't want to show it too often or without comment.

Ciao, Sven.

Chotank

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96

When propagandists don't have enough solid evidence and supports to
counter
a persuasive argument, they attack the source. Leni was the source.

History has proved who was right...why attack Leni. Instead celebrate
Jesse
by visiting the Jesse Owens Memorial www site:

http://www.webcom.com/chotank

A message from Chotank

Allen Schaaf

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96

In article <4sge4t$k...@panix2.panix.com>, Vicki Richman at vic...@panix.com
says...

/On Mon, 15 Jul 1996 23:54:16 GMT, in
/<norhelm.00891167.r3$w#w...@dollhouse.ibsen.no>, Nora Helmer
/(nor...@ibsen.no) wrote:
/
/> What is with you North Americans? You think you are most of the world???
/> No, no.

/Nora, dear, it's highly inappropriate for fictional
/characters to flame real people on the Internet.

/Did you forget to take your Net Manual when you left
/Torvald? Besides, what was your problem, anyway? I thought
/he was pretty neat, as husbands go.

/Your post suggests that you wish you had been created by
/Leni Riefenstahl instead of a dead white male. You have a
/problem. A healthy fictional character does not look for
/another author. Be content with the author you were given.

/You have posted to alt.censorship and
/alt.union.natl-writers. Your dissatisfaction with your own
/author may be construed as censorship and is a violation of
/National Writers Union rules. Expect a picket line around
/your house.

/Where are you living anyway? I have never figured out where
/you went after you left Torvald.
/

ROTFL!

Allen (Not Woody)

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