Banana. No, thank you.
Chris Phoenix
>"A renaissance man told me I might like it here," she continued,
>rolling the glass lightly between her fingers. "But in all truth, I
>wasn't sure I would be welcome."
>
>"Rumor has it that Callahan's is the place to make instant friends, the
>place to come air your troubles and have an infinite amount of
>shoulders to lean on and ears to bend. This is a wonderful thing."
>The full glass was still in her hand; some were wondering if she was
>ever going to drink the contents. "The problem is....well, I don't
>have any problems at the moment.
Well, I think you've made at least one friend already. I like the way you
write about yourself.
And yes, you'll be welcome here, even if you don't have a problem. Matter
of fact, it's nice to meet someone who doesn't have any problems. I don't
think it's arrogant to say so.
There's certainly nothing wrong with being self-confident. There isn't
enough self-confidence in the world. And a good listener is always welcome.
>"OK then," she said, her hand in her hair once again. "To acceptance."
I think I speak for all of us... you're accepted here. Have a seat, join
a conversation, make another friend. Welcome to Callahan's!
--
Chris Phoenix | A harp is a nude piano.
cpho...@csli.Stanford.EDU | "More input! More input!"
Life is the only game in which the object of the game is to learn the rules.
Disclaimer: I want a kinder, gentler net with a thousand pints of lite.
Laura Lemay
An entrance was what it would best be called. Many people came into
Callahans in mysterious ways; she was not one of them. She did not
change shape, or glow like a beacon, or do anything out of the
ordinary as she entered the bar. She just walked.
But oh, what a walk.
All eyes were on her as she closed the oaken door behind her. She was
alone, but did not appear in the slightest bit uncomfortable. Looking
around at the crowds looking at her, she walked to the bar.
Her coat was black, and fell nearly to her ankles. With a motion she
removed it and placed it on the chair beside her. Beneath the coat,
her clothes were also black, from the boots on her feet to the scarf
around her neck. In sharp contrast to the darkness of her clothes,
however, was her hair. It was red, bright red, cropped off short in
the back and falling in waves over her forehead. Absently she pushed
a hand through it; it fell back into place as if she had never touched
it.
She reached into a pocket, and as everyone continued to watch, emptied
four pennies, a set of keys, a tattered California Driver's License
and a dollar bill onto the bar. Mike took the dollar bill. "What'll
it be?" he asked, breaking the silence.
"Shot of stoli?" she asked, pocketing the pennies, the keys and the
license once again. Mike raised one eyebrow quizzically. It was not
exactly the most feminine of drinks. "What?" the woman asked,
looking up at him. Mike shurgged and reached for the bottle, as the
woman turned to face the crowds.
There was a silence as she seemed to be sizing up those in the crowd
-- human and otherwise. She leaned back against the bar, propping
up her elbows. "My name is Laura," she started. "It was the name I
was born with, and the name I go by. I have no persona." She turned
around at the sound of Mike putting the bottle of vodka back into the
rack, took the shot glass, and looked carefully down at it.
"A renaissance man told me I might like it here," she continued,
rolling the glass lightly between her fingers. "But in all truth, I
wasn't sure I would be welcome."
"Rumor has it that Callahan's is the place to make instant friends, the
place to come air your troubles and have an infinite amount of
shoulders to lean on and ears to bend. This is a wonderful thing."
The full glass was still in her hand; some were wondering if she was
ever going to drink the contents. "The problem is....well, I don't
have any problems at the moment.
"But wait -- before you dismiss me as hopelessly arrogant, let me
explain. It took me a long time to be comfortable with my life and
comfortable with myself. I have done a lot of soul-searching, and I
like what I have come up with. Yes, I am self-confident. I am cocky.
And yes, I am a bit arrogant. But I am a good listener, and I am
sympathetic. That is why I decided to come in here after all."
Again, her hand went absently through her hair, making many aware that
this was more a habit than anything else. She looked up from the shot
glass again, and grinned. "Besides, I hear the pun contests in here
are lethal. Can't resist that." A few faces broke into smiles, and
the woman seemed to relax.
"OK then," she said, her hand in her hair once again. "To acceptance."
Finally, she downed the vodka, and flung the glass into the fireplace,
where it landed with a crash. Still smiling, she joined the
conversations in progress around her.
-Laura Lemay le...@eng.sun.com
Redhead. Drummer. Geek.
Gene W. Smith
>I think I speak for all of us... you're accepted here. Have a seat, join
>a conversation, make another friend. Welcome to Callahan's!
Is it OK if I'm an obnoxious drunk?
--
ucbvax!garnet!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/Brahmsgangster/Berkeley CA 94720
ucbvax!bosco!gsmith A box of mixed biscuits in a biscuit mixer
Gary Levin
gsm...@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) writes:
gsmith>In article <11...@csli.Stanford.EDU>, cphoenix@csli (Chris
Phoenix) writes:
>I think I speak for all of us... you're accepted here. Have a seat, join
>a conversation, make another friend. Welcome to Callahan's!
gsmith> Is it OK if I'm an obnoxious drunk?
The usual response to an obnoxious drunk at Callahan's is to help them
home and hope to find out why they are obnoxious next time, when their
minds are a little clearer. Usually only those who need and can be
helped show up (in the books). The alternative (for the Net
incarnation) would seem to be to ignore them, easily done with the
omniously named KILL files. I'd rather not send someone to Coventry,
so please try to avoid being obnoxious. One of the joys of Callahan's
is knowing that one can drop in and not see flames (outside of the
fireplace), even when emotions run high.
--
Gary Levin/Dept of Math & CS/Clarkson Univ/Potsdam, NY 13676/(315) 268-2384
BitNet: gary@clutx Internet: ga...@clutx.clarkson.edu
The Polymath
}The usual response to an obnoxious drunk at Callahan's is to help them
}home and hope to find out why they are obnoxious next time, when their
}... The alternative (for the Net
}incarnation) would seem to be to ignore them, easily done with the
The Polymath joins the conversation:
"Friends, I've given some thought to this situation. IMHO, kill files are
contrary to the spirit of Callahan's. If you put someone in a kill file
it means you've given up on them. You never want to hear from them again.
You're denying their potential to learn, mature and improve. I don't
think Mike would approve.
"That raises the question, how else can we toss someone out an electronic
door? How can we give Fast Eddie's electronic blackjack some tangible
weight? I can think of only one answer, and it calls for a lot of
discipline on all our parts:
"First, the offending party should be given a simple clear message as to
acceptable standards of behavior. Something like:
'Child, this establishment is a bar. It is not a daycare center.
Take your toys and go play with the other children in alt.flame.
Come back when you've read news.announce.newusers and grown up enough
to be fit for polite company.'
"Once the 'go away' message has been delivered, and it should only be
delivered once, all further postings from the miscreant are to be totally
ignored unless and until they become fit for polite company. That means
no counter-flames, no e-mail, no followups of any kind. Unrewarded
behavior extinguishes pretty rapidly. Given that treatment, they won't
hang around for long.
"It should go without saying that a person's behavior would have to be
deemed seriously, gratuitously obnoxious before instituting such a course
of action. I don't think the harmless message that triggered this
discussion qualifies as such, for example. Also, many people come through
Mike's door in pain. We mustn't let anger born of anguish exclude someone
who really needs Callahan's.
"Alas, the appearance of immature net.fools is as regular as the migration
of birds. Sooner or later, one is bound to stumble in Mike's door. My
fear is one nasty flame war could seriously damage what we've built here.
The people would be the same, of course, but the atmosphere would change.
The safety of Callahan's would be flawed, possibly irreparably. I think
that would be a great tragedy.
"And so, a toast:
"To solidarity in the face of adversity. <Crash!>
"What say you?
--
The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, holl...@ttidca.tti.com) Illegitimis non
Citicorp(+)TTI Carborundum
3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (213) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA 90405 {csun | philabs | psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
Jennifer Doyle
>"And so, a toast:
>
> "To solidarity in the face of adversity. <Crash!>
>
>"What say you?
Yes, indeed. Remember that people come here for help, often. There may also
be those who can't believe there can be a flame-free group on the net. Or
even those who see a lack of flaming as a weakness. Or, perhaps, those like
the troll in Gilly's story (metaphorically speaking), who want to start a flame
war and step back to watch the chaos. Remember the reason for Callahan's and
why so many come here, and practice solidarity, not only in response, but in
your levels of compasssion, tolerance, and understanding.
Jen
--
"Make mine a root beer, Mike. Thanks. To communication! <CRASH>"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer Doyle // Princeton '92 // jmd...@phoenix.princeton.edu
Disclaimer: I am a student, I represent the future.
Greg McMullan
>}... The alternative (for the Net
>}incarnation) would seem to be to ignore them, easily done with the
>}omniously named KILL files. I'd rather not send someone to Coventry ...
>
>The Polymath joins the conversation:
>
obnoxious people who come here, and then completely ignore them until
they have learned to behave in an appropriate manner for The Place.
(If I have mangled your meaning too much, I apologize, and please
correct me. I wanted to keep this brief but not allow it to be
incomprehensible.)]
I agree completely with this suggestion, and was planning on posting
something similar, but hadn't yet gotten it worded right. Now I don't
have to, as the Polymath did it better than I could have.
The rest of this letter is simply a repeat of the caution against
applying this sanction unless it is completely unavoidable, so if you
have seen the original, don't bother to read the rest of this. I just
wanted it to be available again, as it is very true.
Greg McMullan
mcmu...@eddie.mit.edu
keeper of FTPable alt.callahans archives
Diana Egly
While acknowledging the need for a polite "fast eddie" (and
Polymath words it well) I would hope that we remember what
Callahan's does with obnoxious drunks and apply similar
standards to obnoxious netters. I, for one, assume that those
who enjoy instigating flame wars are rather like the children
I know who hurt so much, and need so much attention, that they
do anything to get it -- and don't care how severe the punishment
is as long as they get noticed. I would hope that we can avoid
flaming anyone no matter how obnoxious they get, and reserve asking
people to leave (and ingnoring them in general) for people who
intentionally inflict injury on already hurting people.
How will we reach a conlcusion that someone should be asked to leave?
We need to establish a mechanism to act on this as well as to come
to agreement on what we want to do? Who (or what) will be fast eddie?
Diana
egly@hplabs
The Polymath
}... I, for one, assume that those
}who enjoy instigating flame wars are rather like the children
}I know who hurt so much, and need so much attention, that they
}do anything to get it -- and don't care how severe the punishment
This may be the case in many instances, but I've seen many others (and
know one or two personally) where the flamer just likes to raise hell and
sees the net as a safe place to do so.
}... I would hope that we can avoid
}flaming anyone no matter how obnoxious they get, and reserve asking
}people to leave (and ingnoring them in general) for people who
}intentionally inflict injury on already hurting people.
I agree entirely.
}How will we reach a conlcusion that someone should be asked to leave?
}We need to establish a mechanism to act on this as well as to come
}to agreement on what we want to do? Who (or what) will be fast eddie?
A thorny question. I doubt anyone wants to be Fast Eddie and I wouldn't
want to see that much power vested in a single person. If we're going to
do that, we may as well make it a moderated group.
Here's a thought: By consensus, flames are banned in Callahan's. It's up
to each individual to decide when they've been offended enough to start
ignoring a flamer. Flames should never be answered by flames, even in
e-mail.
We're a pretty reasonable group. I think everyone here can come to their
own decision on such a point. This method also builds a little cushion
into the cut-off as fewer and fewer people respond to a flamer.
Rob Sartin
> Take your toys and go play with the other children in alt.flame.
> Come back when you've read news.announce.newusers and grown up enough
> to be fit for polite company.'
Good concept, but the implementation needs some modification.
You don't get rid of flamers by insulting them. Calling someone a
"child" and implying they need "daycare" to play with their "toys" is
bound to increase, not eliminate a flaming thread. A simpler, and less
judgemental, restatement of the introductory message for alt.callahans
might do better. Ignoring the flamer is also extremely important. A
flame is a multi-way exchange, one that is very difficult to continue
without at least one other person cooperating (kind of strange to
consider a return flame as cooperation isn't it) in the continuation of
the exchange.
A pair of toasts - "Mike, two Anchor Steams please":
"To the flamers and to them staying in their place." *CRASH*
"To endings and beginnings." *CRASH*
Is Pyotr here?
Rob Sartin internet: sar...@hplabs.hp.com
Software Technology Lab uucp : hplabs!sartin
Hewlett-Packard voice : (415) 857-7592
the Eternal Stranger
| An entrance was what it would best be called. Many people came into
| Callahans in mysterious ways; she was not one of them. She did not
| change shape, or glow like a beacon, or do anything out of the
| ordinary as she entered the bar. She just walked.
|
| But oh, what a walk.
[Now this is unfair, Laura... you may have just condemned half the
readership of Callahan's to spend the rest of their lives wondering
what they missed! We can't _see_ this wonderful walk... oh well -
back to imagination, I guess. Is it OK to imagine your walk? :-) ]
| There was a silence as she seemed to be sizing up those in the crowd
| -- human and otherwise. She leaned back against the bar, propping
| up her elbows. "My name is Laura," she started. "It was the name I
| was born with, and the name I go by. I have no persona." She turned
| around at the sound of Mike putting the bottle of vodka back into the
| rack, took the shot glass, and looked carefully down at it.
|
| "A renaissance man told me I might like it here," she continued,
| rolling the glass lightly between her fingers. "But in all truth, I
| wasn't sure I would be welcome."
The dark figure of Alaric shimmers for a moment, then seems to shrink
slightly and is replaced by a more ordinary and mundane form, a bearded
man looking to be somewhere in his twenties. He smiles and raises his
glass in a half-toast, half-salute.
"Welcome to Callahan's," he says, smiling. "I'm glad you decided to
come in."
| "Rumor has it that Callahan's is the place to make instant friends, the
| place to come air your troubles and have an infinite amount of
| shoulders to lean on and ears to bend. This is a wonderful thing."
| The full glass was still in her hand; some were wondering if she was
| ever going to drink the contents. "The problem is....well, I don't
| have any problems at the moment.
"That's a problem?" he asks, with a rueful grin. "We should all have
such problems!"
| "OK then," she said, her hand in her hair once again. "To acceptance."
| Finally, she downed the vodka, and flung the glass into the fireplace,
| where it landed with a crash. Still smiling, she joined the
| conversations in progress around her.
|
| -Laura Lemay le...@eng.sun.com
| Redhead. Drummer. Geek.
A shadow passes briefly across his face, then the smile returns, though
perhaps a little weakly.
"I'll second that," he says, draining his glass...
--
Until Friday Dec 29, Alaric is still t-p...@microsoft.UUCP
`Mid dreams that die and things that end, I ask but thee, eternal friend.
One lantern in the vasty dark, One stable soul, my way to mark. - Jilara