[A] ToT, hairstyle (spoilers?)
nyra
in
case
.
.
.
although
i really
don't
know
.
.
.
whether
this is
an actual
.
.
.
spoiler
A quick search hasn't turned this one up yet:
Susan is described in ToT to have blond hair /with a black streak/. p22,
Doubleday HC <whee! i'm feelin' posh!>
In the Belgariad, the sign of the magically "gifted" is a single white
streak in their hair.
Daibhid Chiennedelh
>Date: 02/05/01 16:15 GMT Standard Time
>Message-id: <3AF032AB...@gmx.net>
>
>Just
>in
>case
>.
>.
>.
>although
>i really
>don't
>know
>.
>.
>.
>whether
>this is
>an actual
>.
>.
>.
>spoiler
>
>A quick search hasn't turned this one up yet:
>
>Susan is described in ToT to have blond hair /with a black streak/. p22,
>Doubleday HC <whee! i'm feelin' posh!>
Actually, she's been described as such since SM, but please continue.
>In the Belgariad, the sign of the magically "gifted" is a single white
>streak in their hair.
Just Polgara AFAIK. The Rowan, a powerful telepath in Anne McCaffery's Tower &
Hive series, had a similar "badger" look.
Is there an Earlier Source for all this?
--
Dave
Elected for a second glorious term as Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.ed.ac.uk/~sesoc
"I would be sorry for the good Lord; the theory is correct!"
(Einstein, asked how he'd react if experiment disproved general relativity)
Kalle Lintinen
I've got no idea of the actual date, but in X-men (saw the movie, tried to read a
comic -failed in reading it) the Rogue character, a young nearly 'magical' girl
ends up having a white streak in her hair. I don't know where in the comics this
happens, but am guessing it comes from far beyond Belgariad.
KalEl
Vampyre
nyra <ny...@gmx.net> wrote in message news:3AF032AB...@gmx.net...
didn't Susan originally have white hair with a black streak?
"It was her hair that made people stop and turn to watch her. It was pure
white except for a black streak."
that's how it was described in SM. So this time, it's NOT just me rambling
on about any old thing... makes a change ^.-
-- Vampyre
Personal Website... http://caffinemonkey.tripod.com
Email... j...@betwixt.demon.co.uk
Inspiring Quote... "If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that
you ever tried"
Terry Pratchett
Vampyre <j...@betwixt.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>that's how it was described in SM. So this time, it's NOT just me rambling
>on about any old thing... makes a change ^.-
May I commend to the attention of this thread the hairstyle of the Bride
of Frankenstein? I'd certainly suggest it as the 'original'.
--
Terry Pratchett
Aquarion
alt.books.pratchett
The idea of David "We don;t need no steinkin fans" Eddings getting an
idea from an X-Men comic is something I find highly amusing :-)
Black with a white streak is how many traditional horror "Mistress' of
death" are portrayed, I expect someone else can find an original
source, in everything from Bride of Frankenstein type films, to the
more recent "Dr Zitbag's Transalvanian Pet shop" cartoon, pTerry just
reversed it for Susan, since she is the Antielvira.
Yours in total sincerity,
Aquarion
--
Web: www.aquarionics.com EZine: www.TerraIncognita.org.uk
Gameslist: http://www.aquarionics.com/gameslist/
"He's not a millionaire at all, just a dockside rat. Though you'd
never guess, when he wears his glove and socks and bowler hat."
Lemming
wrote:
Ack, what do YOU know?
Lemming (who is CERTAIN that line must have been used before.)
--
Curiosity *may* have killed Schrödinger's cat.
Richard Eney
The "hair-color code" for character roles has been built into the culture
since at least the Renaissance, when red hair indicated magic use and
auburn hair indicated spirituality. "Bride of Frankenstein" gave the
bride white hair with black streaks (or was it black with white streaks?)
symbolizing the lightning bolts that brought her to life.
By the late 1970s Hannah Shapero had published an article in a small-press
zine detailing the color code for bad fantasy, including the "streaks of
white in otherwise black hair" for a major magic-user. Cruella de Ville
had equally divided hair, black on one side, white on the other. Males
tend to have the streaks in their beards, usually two white streaks, one
on either side of the mouth, going down the chin.
There's a complete code, including both eye and hair color.
=Tamar
David Chapman
To the point where the Cosgrove Hall animation of SM gave Susan a hairstyle
which was identical to Elsa Lanchester's apart from the colour reversal.
And while we're on the subject of BoF....
SPOILERS For ToT - FAIRLY MINOR
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..."We belong dead" (in the footnote on p136 UK h/b) is a quote from BoF.
I have to wonder why it was used in connection with the loyalty of Igors, though;
it's a quote from the monster, not from the Baron.
--
"Would you say your songs are about liquor,
women, drugs and killing, for the most part?"
"Yep."
Terry Pratchett
<dic...@Radix.Net> writes
>
>By the late 1970s Hannah Shapero had published an article in a small-press
>zine detailing the color code for bad fantasy, including the "streaks of
>white in otherwise black hair" for a major magic-user. Cruella de Ville
>had equally divided hair, black on one side, white on the other. Males
>tend to have the streaks in their beards, usually two white streaks, one
>on either side of the mouth, going down the chin.
>
Is this still in print somewhere? Although I think that, for most of
us, it's now coded into our subconscious.
--
Terry Pratchett
Jacqui
> Tamar writes
> >
> >By the late 1970s Hannah Shapero had published an article in a small-press
> >zine detailing the color code for bad fantasy, including the "streaks of
> >white in otherwise black hair" for a major magic-user. Cruella de Ville
> >had equally divided hair, black on one side, white on the other. Males
> >tend to have the streaks in their beards, usually two white streaks, one
> >on either side of the mouth, going down the chin.
There's a fabulous head of hair walks past me at least twice a day:
blond on one side, dark brown on the other. Flowing. The only reason
I've never spoken to its owner is that he reminds me of my ex-friend
Martin (although it's not). It's perfect magic hair though.
> Is this still in print somewhere? Although I think that, for most of
> us, it's now coded into our subconscious.
Can't find it, although I've seen it rehashed somewhere fairly recently.
[Argh, the bookmarks are on the recently-defunct machine.] Hmmm. I think
www.pyracantha.com is Hannah Shapero's home page.
Jac
Pook!
I think that it's fairly well-based in folklore in general that certain
stresses will "turn a person's hair white," and it's used in conjunction
with magical stresses in all kinds of books most often as turning
streaks of their hair white...
--Pook! ^_^
Richard Eney
I don't know about in print. I think it was in the old _S.F.
Review/Alien Critic_ (Geis's zine) but ICBW. I've got it stashed
somewhere. It's fairly detailed but since she wrote it as a result of
being bored by having to paint the same cover picture over and over again
(for various fantasy books), you could probably derive it. I can quote a
lot of it from memory.
Blond hair/blue eyed = hero but fairly weak
black hair/blue eyed = stronger hero
black hair/grey eyes = virtually unbeatable, whether hero or villain (if
it's the villain, you're in big trouble, he may have some noble
qualities)
black hair, black eyes = villain
black hair/beard with white streak, black eyes usually = heavy magic user
black hair/blue eyes = the weak, second son, type; may lose against
almost any other combination
brown hair/brown eyes = loyal cannon fodder
white hair/blue or grey eyes = wisdom
red hair/blue eyes = tricky, clever, but loyal
red hair/green eyes = dangerous, magical, may not be trustworthy
blond hair/green eyes = possible magic user, definitely a trifle
tricky
blond hair/brown eyes = still a nice guy, but may survive longer than
brown/brown
Any metallic or unusual color-name raises the social status and survival
stats of the character. Whether it's hair or eyes or skin, anything
unusual will help, even if it's just a glint.
e.g. hazel eyes add green to brown, raise the level of cunning of the
character, so they might survive even with brown hair.
purple eyes (very common in fanfic a while back)
auburn hair instead of red adds a great deal of character, may indicate
magical ability on a higher level than red hair/green eyes
Silver instead of white
golden hair/eyes instead of blond/yellow
bronze instead of brown
copper instead of red
I'll see if I can find it.
=Tamar
John
for men. They rarely go bald, but most often develop
the grey/white streaks along the side of the head.
This was one of many reasons why I wanted to be
a superhero when I grew up.
It should be worth noting that impressive Picard-style
baldness is the other big look for male magic users. I suspect
the problem with a comb-over is the hair tends to stick straight
up during those 'I'm just alive with magic' moments. Which
slightly diminishes the effect. Possibly it's the same effect
that causes the baldness in the first place.
Magic users with mohawks and mullets are rarely seen.
Which is all for the best, I'd say.
"Terry Pratchett" <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:W14cvhA1...@unseen.demon.co.uk...
Lord Lucan
> stresses will "turn a person's hair white," and it's used in conjunction
> with magical stresses in all kinds of books most often as turning
> streaks of their hair white...
>
> --Pook! ^_^
Only if the person previously had grey hair (which is basically newer white
hairs mixed with the older dark ones). After a fright the older, darker
hairs fall out, leaving only the white ones.
Dr Karl Kruscelniski (I have know idea how his name is spelt) is often asked
this question and a proper answer is
probably found on his site)
Lord Lucan
Hail, Hail the Eyeball Kid
Thomas Johnson
>
> I don't know about in print. I think it was in the old _S.F.
> Review/Alien Critic_ (Geis's zine) but ICBW. I've got it stashed
> somewhere. It's fairly detailed but since she wrote it as a result of
> being bored by having to paint the same cover picture over and over again
> (for various fantasy books), you could probably derive it. I can quote a
> lot of it from memory.
>
> red hair/green eyes = dangerous, magical, may not be trustworthy
>
What about red hair/brown eyes?
--
Thomas
"Everybody is all right really. That's what I think." - Winnie-the-Pooh
Sockii
>
> Richard Eney wrote:
[ quotes from Hannah Shapero's color code for bad fantasy]
> What about red hair/brown eyes?
what about bald/blue eyes?[1]
[1] is Death bald? does he have eyes?
Sockii
--
\\\\_o spreading the word of Jimmy! http://jump.to/Annotate-o-matic
\\\\\'/ ;``._ ;``._~ afpguru-ed to SarahR <*> afpfoe of goblin
alt.fan.alt-fan-pratchett http://wibblehome.orcon.net.nz/afpers.html
Paul Andinach
There's a page or two on "colour-coding" of extruded-fantasy-product
characters in Diana Wynne Jones' _The Tough Guide to Fantasyland_
(1996, and still in print). It covers hair, eyes, clothing, and
complexion, but being a small part of a larger work doesn't go into as
much detail as the Shapero article.
Paul
--
The Pink Pedanther
MP
<herod...@hotmail.com> wrote, on Fri, 04 May 2001 23:56:07 +1200,
that:
>what about bald/blue eyes?[1]
>
>[1] is Death bald? does he have eyes?
Yes, and yes. It means you have to speak LIKE THIS and don't get
invited to many parties... :-}
MP
Jonathan Ellis
Pook! wrote in message <3AF1AD43...@strangepaths.com>...
>I think that it's fairly well-based in folklore in general that certain
>stresses will "turn a person's hair white"
Including, famously, a mention in passing in the book of "101
Dalmatians": Cruella De Vil's hair is black on one side of her head and
white on the other. When she gets her come-uppance, all her black hair
goes white. "And the white side's gone *green* - a horrible shade"...
Jonathan.
Richard Eney
Richard Eney <dic...@Radix.Net> wrote:
>Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Richard Eney <dic...@Radix.Net> writes
>>>
>>>By the late 1970s Hannah Shapero had published an article in a small-press
>>>zine detailing the color code for bad fantasy, including the "streaks of
>>>white in otherwise black hair" for a major magic-user. Cruella de Ville
>>>had equally divided hair, black on one side, white on the other. Males
>>>tend to have the streaks in their beards, usually two white streaks, one
>>>on either side of the mouth, going down the chin.
>>
>>Is this still in print somewhere? Although I think that, for most of
>>us, it's now coded into our subconscious.
>
>I don't know about in print. I think it was in the old _S.F.
>Review/Alien Critic_ (Geis's zine) but ICBW. I've got it stashed
>somewhere.
Found it. It was in _S.F.Review_ #54, published by Richard E. Geis.
I remembered it fairly accurately, too, except for a few minor points.
I forgot about brown eyes being improved by being amber or tawny as well
as golden.
>Blond hair/blue eyed = hero but fairly weak
>black hair/blue eyed = stronger hero
The article says black hair/green or blue eyes is the unsuccessful
contender for the throne, generally the younger son, as I said below, but
not stronger than blond/blue eyes. May be a very good warrior or
statesman but won't reign.
=Tamar
Richard Eney
>Thomas Johnson wrote:
>>
>> Richard Eney wrote:
>[ quotes from Hannah Shapero's color code for bad fantasy]
>
>> What about red hair/brown eyes?
Hannah Shapero noted (in her copyrighted article) that red hair, brown or
black eyes denotes a demonic, amoral, but highly gifted character, one the
reader admires in spite of their behavior. Red-haired characters tend to
be competent in everything.
>what about bald/blue eyes?[1]
>[1] is Death bald? does he have eyes?
Death is definitely bald, and definitely has blue somethings that might as
well be eyes. Since blond hair/blue eyes is royal coloration, white
hair+blue eyes is elderly royal. White hair, especially with grey eyes,
indicates awesome spiritual or magic power if not actual divinity, so
probably white bone works that way too when combined with grey or blue
eyes.
Death's eyes turn red when he's upset; white hair with pink or red eyes,
which are albino characteristics, are the sign of weirdness and magic
wherever found.
=Tamar
Richard Eney
Lord Lucan <bur...@melb.globaldial.bom> wrote:
<snip - hair turning white from stress>
>Only if the person previously had grey hair (which is basically newer white
>hairs mixed with the older dark ones). After a fright the older, darker
>hairs fall out, leaving only the white ones.
>Dr Karl Kruscelniski (I have know idea how his name is spelt) is often asked
>this question and a proper answer is
>probably found on his site)
That's an interesting explanation. Does he have any explanation for hair
turning straight or curly from stress? I know several people who have had
that happen.
=Tamar
Thomas Johnson
When hair grows back after chemotherapy it will often by curly if it was
previously straight or straight if it was previously curly.
Christina Waldeck
Perhaps we should incorporate this into a weird roleplaying game, where
a character can assume his favorite role or highen his survival chances
by careful application of makeup, colored contacts and by dyeing his
hair!
*giggle*
Richard Eney wrote:
(snip)
> I don't know about in print. I think it was in the old _S.F.
> Review/Alien Critic_ (Geis's zine) but ICBW. I've got it stashed
> somewhere. It's fairly detailed but since she wrote it as a result of
> being bored by having to paint the same cover picture over and over again
> (for various fantasy books), you could probably derive it. I can quote a
> lot of it from memory.
>
> Blond hair/blue eyed = hero but fairly weak
> black hair/blue eyed = stronger hero
> black hair/grey eyes = virtually unbeatable, whether hero or villain (if
> it's the villain, you're in big trouble, he may have some noble
> qualities)
> black hair, black eyes = villain
> black hair/beard with white streak, black eyes usually = heavy magic user
> black hair/blue eyes = the weak, second son, type; may lose against
> almost any other combination
Er, black/blue in conbination with 2nd son background? Otherwise, we
already had black/blue.
What about blue hair, black eyes? *chuckles*
> brown hair/brown eyes = loyal cannon fodder
Hm. I must admit... yeah if I picture a loyal henchman, mercenary or
something, I usually give them brown/brown, too. Odd. I wonder if it is
coded into our subconscious because of some really existing connection
between coloring and people's personalities (somehow i doubt that), or
if we've just read and seen too many stories where the authors continue
the tradition...
Now, if I want to create "the average guy/gal" for an RPG, a nice but
not too openly or superiorly powerful, i usually go for light brown
hair/blue eyes. The little brother of the black/blue hero no.II?
I wonder how people from other non-western cultures and climates, i.e.
african or chinese, code these colorings. I strongly suppose they have
other expectations. Like the villains in the old Godzilla movies where
every spy wore black glasses and a little beard to indicate he's the Bad
Guy.
> white hair/blue or grey eyes = wisdom
>
> red hair/blue eyes = tricky, clever, but loyal
> red hair/green eyes = dangerous, magical, may not be trustworthy
>
> blond hair/green eyes = possible magic user, definitely a trifle
> tricky
> blond hair/brown eyes = still a nice guy, but may survive longer than
> brown/brown
*chuckle* i love this sarcasm
> Any metallic or unusual color-name raises the social status and survival
> stats of the character. Whether it's hair or eyes or skin, anything
> unusual will help, even if it's just a glint.
> e.g. hazel eyes add green to brown, raise the level of cunning of the
> character, so they might survive even with brown hair.
> purple eyes (very common in fanfic a while back)
> auburn hair instead of red adds a great deal of character, may indicate
> magical ability on a higher level than red hair/green eyes
> Silver instead of white
> golden hair/eyes instead of blond/yellow
> bronze instead of brown
> copper instead of red
(snip)
Hm that explains Raistlin from Dragonlance, various elves and aliens in
various stories and mythologies and RPGs, "catpeople" and other
werecreatures in human form. some stories, you can't move for all those
silverhaired, purpleeyed elven punks! ;-)
I must admit, I made a wizard character for an RP campaign who had
"auburn" hair... but the sole reason was that i found word spiffy when i
first stumbled apon it in a dictionary/list of colors. That one, and
"tawny". they sounded mysterious. *g* (me being German) Much more
interesting than a simply "red". And reddishbrown _is_ a pretty color.
Christina
Christina Waldeck
>
> Thomas Johnson wrote:
> >
> > Richard Eney wrote:
> [ quotes from Hannah Shapero's color code for bad fantasy]
>
> > What about red hair/brown eyes?
>
> what about bald/blue eyes?[1]
>
> [1] is Death bald? does he have eyes?
aahh.... Jean-Luc Picard ? Jule Brunner. Wasn't there a James Bond
Villain who was bald? The actor who plays a villain role in Dark City
and in the D&D movie was quite bald and haggardlooking, and it gave him
a certain intensity.
Christina
nyra
Ah well, the time i read SM i didn't notice 'cause i hadn't found the
Belgariad in the library yet, and my copy of SM got lost long ago.
> >>
> >> >In the Belgariad, the sign of the magically "gifted" is a single white
> >> >streak in their hair.
> >>
> >> Just Polgara AFAIK.
I was certain that ol' Garion had a white streak, too.
> >> Is there an Earlier Source for all this?
< unless i mis-read the attributions, Kalle Lintinen suggested an
episode of X-men comics >
> The idea of David "We don;t need no steinkin fans" Eddings getting an
> idea from an X-Men comic is something I find highly amusing :-)
>
> Black with a white streak is how many traditional horror "Mistress' of
> death" are portrayed, I expect someone else can find an original
> source, in everything from Bride of Frankenstein type films, to the
> more recent "Dr Zitbag's Transalvanian Pet shop" cartoon, pTerry just
> reversed it for Susan, since she is the Antielvira.
A more recent example should be the "evil" old woman in the 101
dalmations stories; not too sure, as i haven't seen any of the films.
For the really oldest example of multi-coloured hair in literature, i
think it should be hard to beat Wolfram von Eschenbach's Parzival,
estimated to have been written between 1200 and 1210.
Feirefiz, Parzival's half-brother (son of Gahmuret and Belakane) is
described as having black-and-white skin and hair:
Parzival 1, 57, 27-28:
"Als ein agelster wart gevar/ sîn hâr und ouch sîn vel vil gar."
In likeness to a magpie his hair and skin was coloured (black and
white over and over).
<grin> now that should give a good starting point for discussing the
_oldest_ mention of two-colour people.
Aquarion
>Aquarion schrieb:
*de'snip*
>> Black with a white streak is how many traditional horror "Mistress' of
>> death" are portrayed,
>
>A more recent example should be the "evil" old woman in the 101
>dalmations stories; not too sure, as i haven't seen any of the films.
The name is "Cruella De'ville" or some such spelling,
David Chapman
> > >> >In the Belgariad, the sign of the magically "gifted" is a single white
> > >> >streak in their hair.
> > >>
> > >> Just Polgara AFAIK.
>
> I was certain that ol' Garion had a white streak, too.
Nope. All the sorcerers have a mark somewhere, but Garion's is on his palm.
Sockii
> Sockii wrote:
<>
> > [1] is Death bald? does he have eyes?
>
> aahh.... Jean-Luc Picard ? Jule Brunner.
<>
I was working on the idea that Death is not so much "bald" as
'skinless'. I think hair grows from a layer of the skin. icbw. Not
that it matters. Death hasn't any hair.
Sockii
Christina Waldeck
(snip)
> For the really oldest example of multi-coloured hair in literature, i
> think it should be hard to beat Wolfram von Eschenbach's Parzival,
> estimated to have been written between 1200 and 1210.
>
> Feirefiz, Parzival's half-brother (son of Gahmuret and Belakane) is
> described as having black-and-white skin and hair:
> Parzival 1, 57, 27-28:
> In likeness to a magpie his hair and skin was coloured (black and
> white over and over).
>
> <grin> now that should give a good starting point for discussing the
> _oldest_ mention of two-colour people.
What about Hel, Loki's daughter, the goddess of the underworld in the
Edda?
She is sometimes described as being one half black, one half white
(though they never say which halves I think).
Christina
Christina Waldeck
Yeah. Death with a fake hairpiece would look majorly weird. Rastafarian
curls would go well with Soul Music, no? *g*
Bjorn Bjornsson
>nyra wrote:
>> <grin> now that should give a good starting point for discussing the
>> _oldest_ mention of two-colour people.
>
>What about Hel, Loki's daughter, the goddess of the underworld in the
>Edda?
>She is sometimes described as being one half black, one half white
>(though they never say which halves I think).
"Half blue, half skin coloured" and therefore easily recognised :)
Of course blue can be pretty dark, as Bluemen used to be a generic
name for any black people in Icelandic .
(this information for *linguistic* purposes only, let's not discuss
the pc aspect, ok?)
Bjorn
--
Björn Friðgeir Björnsson http://www.undo.com/bjorn
My afp Photo Album is at http://www.undo.com/bjorn/photos/afp/
Richard Eney
Christina Waldeck <c.wa...@tu-bs.de> wrote:
>
>aahh.... Jean-Luc Picard ? Jule Brunner. Wasn't there a James Bond
>Villain who was bald? The actor who plays a villain role in Dark City
>and in the D&D movie was quite bald and haggardlooking, and it gave him
>a certain intensity.
Yul Brynner shaved his head, and practiced until he could scowl so that
the muscles on the back of his head clenched. It definitely gave him some
intensity!
=Tamar
Richard Eney
Christina Waldeck <c.wa...@tu-bs.de> wrote:
>ROTFL
>Perhaps we should incorporate this into a weird roleplaying game, where
>a character can assume his favorite role or highen his survival chances
>by careful application of makeup, colored contacts and by dyeing his
>hair!
>*giggle*
>
>Richard Eney wrote:
>(snip)
_S.F.Review_, issue #54.
>> It's fairly detailed but since she wrote it as a result of
>> being bored by having to paint the same cover picture over and over again
>> (for various fantasy books), you could probably derive it. I can quote a
>> lot of it from memory.
>>
>> Blond hair/blue eyed = hero but fairly weak
>> black hair/blue eyed = stronger hero
>> black hair/blue eyes = the weak, second son, type; may lose against
>> almost any other combination
>
>Er, black/blue in conbination with 2nd son background? Otherwise, we
>already had black/blue.
Yes, I goofed there, 'swhat I get for quoting from memory. From my own
reading of bad fantasy, black hair/blue eyes can be stronger physically
than blond/blue but still won't reign.
>What about blue hair, black eyes? *chuckles*
That's probably weird and untrustworthy, since the blueness might help
offset the dark eyes a little. Any other odd color with dark eyes is
probably bad, because 'eyes are the window to the soul' and the color code
comes from a social history of blond = good.
>> brown hair/brown eyes = loyal cannon fodder
>
>Hm. I must admit... yeah if I picture a loyal henchman, mercenary or
>something, I usually give them brown/brown, too. Odd. I wonder if it is
>coded into our subconscious because of some really existing connection
>between coloring and people's personalities (somehow i doubt that), or
>if we've just read and seen too many stories where the authors continue
>the tradition...
I belive it's just that it's built into the Anglo/northern European
culture from centuries of blond Celtic rulers and dark-haired underlings.
>I wonder how people from other non-western cultures and climates, i.e.
>african or chinese, code these colorings. I strongly suppose they have
>other expectations. Like the villains in the old Godzilla movies where
>every spy wore black glasses and a little beard to indicate he's the Bad
>Guy.
Yep. Though there seems to be a small tradition in the Orient of a
green-eyed Chinese girl being something special (there are still people in
China with 'western' features and coloration; they are of what would be
considered Caucasian origin from several thousand years ago [though it's
probably Aral Mt area originally]).
>> Any metallic or unusual color-name raises the social status and survival
>> stats of the character. Whether it's hair or eyes or skin, anything
>> unusual will help, even if it's just a glint.
>> purple eyes (very common in fanfic a while back)
>> auburn hair instead of red adds a great deal of character, may indicate
>> magical ability on a higher level than red hair/green eyes
>> Silver instead of white
(snip)
> some stories, you can't move for all those
>silverhaired, purpleeyed elven punks! ;-)
<g>
=Tamar
Christina Waldeck
>
> Christina Waldeck <khala...@tu-bs.de> scribed:
>
> >nyra wrote:
> >> <grin> now that should give a good starting point for discussing the
> >> _oldest_ mention of two-colour people.
> >
> >What about Hel, Loki's daughter, the goddess of the underworld in the
> >Edda?
> >She is sometimes described as being one half black, one half white
> >(though they never say which halves I think).
>
> "Half blue, half skin coloured" and therefore easily recognised :)
>
> Of course blue can be pretty dark, as Bluemen used to be a generic
> name for any black people in Icelandic .
> (this information for *linguistic* purposes only, let's not discuss
> the pc aspect, ok?)
Ah thanks. I was quoting from (cloudy) memory, since my (German and some
English translations) copies of the verse and the prosa Edda are 60 km
away.
Blue... hm... the blue of corpses, i suppose.
Christina
Christina Waldeck
>
> In article <3AF4C3...@tu-bs.de>,
> Christina Waldeck <c.wa...@tu-bs.de> wrote:
> >Hm. I must admit... yeah if I picture a loyal henchman, mercenary or
> >something, I usually give them brown/brown, too. Odd. I wonder if it is
> >coded into our subconscious because of some really existing connection
> >between coloring and people's personalities (somehow i doubt that), or
> >if we've just read and seen too many stories where the authors continue
> >the tradition...
>
> I belive it's just that it's built into the Anglo/northern European
> culture from centuries of blond Celtic rulers and dark-haired underlings.
I thought many Celts were darkhaired? Only after the mixed and mingled
with the people of the BRitish Isles there was the cliché redheads. And
blond rulers, dark underlings I would associate with England after the
Saxons and the Normans and the Vikings had come and in same cases stayed
and conquered.
But yes, nobles were always protrayed taller and fairer than the "ugly
peasants"... mostly because they probably were, because they had better
and more food and less hardships as children, so they grew bigger and
more regular.
but this is getting far from DW...
Christina
Richard Eney
Christina Waldeck <c.wa...@tu-bs.de> wrote:
>Richard Eney wrote:
>> Christina Waldeck <c.wa...@tu-bs.de> wrote:
>> > Odd. I wonder if it is
>> >coded into our subconscious because of some really existing connection
>> >between coloring and people's personalities (somehow i doubt that), or
>> >if we've just read and seen too many stories where the authors continue
>> >the tradition...
>>
>> culture from centuries of blond Celtic rulers and dark-haired underlings.
>(snip)
>
>I thought many Celts were darkhaired? Only after the mixed and mingled
>with the people of the BRitish Isles there was the cliché redheads. And
>blond rulers, dark underlings I would associate with England after the
>Saxons and the Normans and the Vikings had come and in same cases stayed
>and conquered.
ICBW but I think the Celtic groups were usually blond/red-haired; the
Picts were the shorter, dark-haired people who were in the British Isles
(including Scotland and Ireland) before the Celts arrived and took over.
The Saxons were, IIRC and ICBW, also related to continental Celts and
tended to be blond, ditto the Vikings. The Normans OTOH, despite their
Norse ancestry, tended to be darker haired or at least are portrayed that
way so as to contrast with the now-acclimated Saxon peasant.
>But yes, nobles were always protrayed taller and fairer than the "ugly
>peasants"... mostly because they probably were, because they had better
>and more food and less hardships as children, so they grew bigger and
>more regular.
>
>but this is getting far from DW...
Not very far, inasmuch as it is some of the cliche background for the
fantasies that DW satirized in the beginning and to some extent still
does. Carrot is a red-haired hero with "honest blue eyes" - but there's a
wall behind them. Nobby is an opportunist - he is also short and, I
believe, dark-haired. (Has it ever been stated what color Nobby's hair
would be if it were clean? He passed for Klatchian rather easily.)
Princess Keli had red hair and resisted her destiny with Mort's help. Mort
was tall - gangling at first, but he became more coordinated as he became
more heroic in intent, despite his brown eyes. Ysabell had silver hair
and eyes, IIRC. (What color are Susan's? Blue-grey? Is it stated?
Probably not.) And Death, of course, has blue eyes. Can't really picture
him with brown eyes, can you?
=Tamar
Daibhid Chiennedelh
>Date: 07/05/01 23:31 GMT Standard Time
>Message-id: <9d7b7s$g9o$1...@saltmine.radix.net>
>
>
>ICBW but I think the Celtic groups were usually blond/red-haired; the
>Picts were the shorter, dark-haired people who were in the British Isles
>(including Scotland and Ireland) before the Celts arrived and took over.
I think, and ICABW, that the Celts were generally dark, but blond and red were
not uncommon, especially in the Q-Celtic groups that are the ancestors[1] of
modern Scots and Irish.
P-Celts, the ancestors[1] of modern Welsh, were discribed by the Romans and
Saxons, in similar terms to the way Picts were described by the few Romans who
saw them. This may or may not be evidence of a shared bloodline.
DISCLAIMER:
I *think* I'm remembering all this from my Celtic Civ. course two years ago.
However, it's past midnight, and there therefore exists the very real
possibility that I'm actually making the whole thing up.
[1] In the sense that they occupy the same area of land, and there was no
evidence of mass slaughter/exodus, so logically they must share a few genes.
--
Dave, on his way to bed.
Elected for a second glorious term as Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.ed.ac.uk/~sesoc
"I would be sorry for the good Lord; the theory is correct!"
(Einstein, asked how he'd react if experiment disproved general relativity)
clot...@soupert.com
Yule Brennar. Sigh. What a hunk he was. What a VOICE!
All of the villains in Dark City were bald and haggard looking. They, also
floated above the ground a lot.
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Jenny Radcliffe
> Richard Eney wrote:
> > I don't know about in print. I think it was in the old _S.F.
> > Review/Alien Critic_ (Geis's zine) but ICBW. I've got it
> > stashed somewhere. It's fairly detailed but since she wrote it
> > as a result of being bored by having to paint the same cover
> > picture over and over again (for various fantasy books), you
> > could probably derive it. I can quote a lot of it from memory.
> > red hair/blue eyes = tricky, clever, but loyal
> > red hair/green eyes = dangerous, magical, may not be trustworthy
> What about red hair/brown eyes?
They just look gorgeous.
Apologies for the off-topicness and the OLF.
I couldn't resist.
--
"I'm glad that was your crotch not mine." - Tim Packer to Tom York
John
"Christina Waldeck" <khala...@tu-bs.de> wrote in message
news:3AF4C3...@tu-bs.de...
Of course blue hair/blue eyes = Superman :)
Daibhid Chiennedelh
>Date: 14/05/01 03:50 GMT Standard Time
>Message-id: <rCIL6.51653$ff.3...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
>
>
>Of course blue hair/blue eyes = Superman :)
>
Or Batman. 8-)
--
Dave
Christina Waldeck
>
> >From: "John" ju...@junk.com
> >Date: 14/05/01 03:50 GMT Standard Time
> >Message-id: <rCIL6.51653$ff.3...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
> >
>
> >
> >Of course blue hair/blue eyes = Superman :)
> >
>
> Or Batman. 8-)
Blue hair??
huh?
I must've missed something
wilkins
It's the way DC Comics used to color dark hair in the 60s. Something to
do with the restricted range of inks used (it wasn't CMYK, IIRC).
--
John Wilkins, Head, Communication Services, The Walter and Eliza Hall
Institute of Medical Research, Melbourne, Australia
Homo homini aut deus aut lupus - Erasmus of Rotterdam
<http://www.users.bigpond.com/thewilkins/darwiniana.html>
pteroc...@hotmail.com
cartoon? That's exactly how Susan hair is drawn. A white cloud with a black
streak.
Don't believe me, see it. I know you can buy the thing at amazon uk, but I'm
not sure about the NTSC format.
In the interview before the cartoon pterry said he thought the voices of DEATh
(Christopher lee) and Susan (sorry, horrible of me but I can't at the moment
remember who she is) were perfect. I think he liked the face and hair of
Susan too, because he descriobes her just that way.
Flyingskull
pteroc...@hotmail.com
cartoon? That's exactly how Susan hair is drawn. A white cloud with a black
streak.
Don't believe me, see it. I know you can buy the thing at amazon uk, but I'm
not sure about the NTSC format.
(Christopher Lee) and Susan (sorry, horrible of me but I can't at the moment
remember who she is) were perfect. I think he liked the face and hair of
Daibhid Chiennedelh
>Date: 16/05/01 01:55 GMT Standard Time
>Message-id: <3B01DD...@tu-bs.de>
In order to give the impression of strands of wavy hair, rather than a solid
block of blackness, both characters (and most other black haired American
comic book characters) are usually portrayed with blue "highlights".
Occasionally this looks downright ridiculour (because not enough of the hair
was inked in before the colouring, or because the colourist overdid it, or
something). The technique is also used for other black things that need
highlights, such as leather jackets
In a "Sandman" script printed at the back of one of the collections Neil
Gaiman, giving instructions to the artist re: Morpheus's jacket says something
like "As much as possible should be inked in. And note to the colourist that
the rest should be grey, otherwise he'll probably make it blue, which the
printer will then turn pink for no apparent reason". (NEQ).
HTH HAND