Jesus is Michael

[James]

Jesus was Michael the archangel.

And you say, “That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of. Where
are you getting this junk? From the JW's?”

Actually, JW's were not the first ones to propose that doctrine. An
1800's Bible scholar named E.W.Hengstenberg wrote in the book
“Christology of the Old Testament and Commentary”stating that the
archangel Michael was Christ Jesus. Absurd? Without the Bible's
backing, it would be. But we can't close our eyes to the many hints
the Bible gives us
showing that doctrine to be true.

First though, the word archangel means "a chief angel;" (Strong's
Concordance) The prefex “arch” means “chief”. Like with the Indian
tribes having only one chief, it is the same with the Bible. There is
only one “chief” angel among all the angels. But since many angels are
princes, the chief angel would not only be a prince, but a “great
prince”.
(see Daniel 12:1)

The word Archangel is always in the singular, never the plural. And
here the word “archangel” is connected with Jesus. 1 Thess 4:16,

“ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with
the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in
Christ shall rise first:” (KJV)

Would the voice of a lesser angel have an archangels voice? No, it
takes an archangel to have the voice of an archangel. Also, the Bible
shows the word “archangel” refers to “Michael”. (see Jude 9)

So some simple logic: The lord (Jesus) is an archangel, and Michael is
an archangel, and there is only ONE archangel, thus Jesus was Michael.
Or mathematically, A= C and B= C, then A= B.

The Bible shows Jesus to be head of the angels. (Heb 1:4; 1 Pe 3:22;
Php 2:9-11) Other than God, there is no other being head of the angels
than Michael (Jesus).


James, John 4:23,24 ,www.jw.org

[Michael Christ]

Excuse me, James, but Jesus is Jesus and I am Michael.





Michael Christ

[Madhu]

Angelology is a slippery slope. i see one of most important assurances
that the bible (both ot and nt) gives us - is that this angelology (and
demonology) is absolutely NOT REQUIRED for the salvation of man or in
man's relationship with god.

* James <o6b8lb1rrp5hbqbcc...@4ax.com> :
Wrote on Sun, 05 Jun 2016 09:46:24 -0400:

| First though, the word archangel means "a chief angel;" (Strong's
| Concordance) The prefex “arch” means “chief”. Like with the Indian
| tribes having only one chief, it is the same with the Bible. There is
| only one “chief” angel among all the angels. But since many angels are
| princes, the chief angel would not only be a prince, but a “great
| prince”.
| (see Daniel 12:1)
|
| The word Archangel is always in the singular, never the plural. And
| here the word “archangel” is connected with Jesus. 1 Thess 4:16,

But this "one archangel" arugment is not valid, it refers to an office
or a post.

But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and
twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to
help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
(Daniel 10:13)

Kjv renders it is "one of the chief princes" implying in Daniels' time
people perceived other angels as assigned over other functions. (I'm
assuming that these princes are of the angelic host and not human
leaders. biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/bsac/daniel10.pdf)

| “ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with
| the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in
| Christ shall rise first:” (KJV)
|
| Would the voice of a lesser angel have an archangels voice? No, it
| takes an archangel to have the voice of an archangel. Also, the Bible
| shows the word “archangel” refers to “Michael”. (see Jude 9)
|
| So some simple logic: The lord (Jesus) is an archangel, and Michael is
| an archangel, and there is only ONE archangel, thus Jesus was Michael.
| Or mathematically, A= C and B= C, then A= B.

I believe first order logic should categorically not be used in proving
spiritual truths which are inferred from scripure. Especially in
propositions quantifying ONE, NONE, ALL. It is invariably a trap
leading to error.

| The Bible shows Jesus to be head of the angels. (Heb 1:4; 1 Pe 3:22;
| Php 2:9-11) Other than God, there is no other being head of the angels
| than Michael (Jesus).

[I think adventists etc., infer doctrines from the bible that though man
was created a little lower than the angels, he will, in the final
scheme of things first judge them and then rule over them, after
satan's defeat. Now I should repeat what i said at the top of my
message]

[Michael Christ]

Madhu, stop wanking. It's not a pretty sight.




Michael Christ

[J. Abrams]

Hebrews 1 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets,

2 in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;

3 who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might -- through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest,

4 having become so much better than the messengers, as he did inherit a more excellent name than they.

5 For to which of the messengers said He ever, `My Son thou art -- I to-day have begotten thee?' and again, `I will be to him for a father, and he shall be to Me for a son?'

6 and when again He may bring in the first-born to the world, He saith, `And let them bow before him -- all messengers of God;'

7 and unto the messengers, indeed, He saith, `Who is making His messengers spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire;'

8 and unto the Son: `Thy throne, O God, [is] to the age of the age; a scepter of righteousness [is] the scepter of thy reign;

9 thou didst love righteousness, and didst hate lawlessness; because of this did He anoint thee -- God, thy God -- with oil of gladness above thy partners;'

10 and, `Thou, at the beginning, Lord, the earth didst found, and a work of thy hands are the heavens;

11 these shall perish, and Thou dost remain, and all, as a garment, shall become old,

12 and as a mantle Thou shall roll them together, and they shall be changed, and Thou art the same, and Thy years shall not fail.'

13 And unto which of the messengers said He ever, `Sit at My right hand, till I may make thine enemies thy footstool?'

14 are they not all spirits of service -- for ministration being sent forth because of those about to inherit salvation?

[J. Abrams]

RE:

> But this "one archangel" arugment is not valid, it refers to an office
> or a post.
>
> But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and
> twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to
> help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
> (Daniel 10:13)
>

This comes from years of typing out scriptures...


As you pointed out, and as I have posted in the past, Michael is but ONE of the CHIEF PRINCES.

Most likely this was the angel Gabriel who was speaking to Daniel in Daniel 10:13:

Daniel 10:13: But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.


We know that Michael is one of the CHIEF PRINCES and that he STANDS before God.


Luke 1:19: And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of G-D; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.


Who stands before God?


The Cherubim or Living Creatures stand before God:


Revelation 4:2-8:
4:2: And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
4:3: And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4:4: And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
4:5: And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of G-D.
4:6: And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
4:7: And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
4:8: And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord G-D Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.


I believe that THEY are also called CHIEF PRINCES.


We know that Michael is one of the chief princes.


We know that Michael stands before God.


And we know that Satan is a CHERUB.


And we know that Satan walked among the stones of fire BEFORE GOD'S THRONE.


Ezekiel 28:
28:14: Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of G-D; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
28:15: Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.


BTW The four-faced Living Creature now called Satan previously COVERETH God's Throne with his WINGS.


I believe that the PRINCE (of the kingdom of Persia) who withstood the angel before another prince, namely Michael, came to help him was in fact Satan:


Daniel 10:13: But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Who else could withstand an angel - who may have been a prince himself?


This would make Satan a CHERUB and a PRINCE.


Last note, it is interesting that Michael could not go and help this angel for 21 long DAYS.


These angelic battles are very real.

[James]

Michael Christ <jesusisth...@hotmail.com>

>Excuse me, James, but Jesus is Jesus and I am Michael.
>
>

And I am James.

Jesus was Michael when he lived in Heaven before his journey to
earth.
He was “chief of the angels”, thus being an archangel. And there is
only one archangel in the Bible; Michael (Jesus)

James, John 4:23,24 ,www.jw.org

>
>

>Michael Christ

[James]

Madhu <eno...@meer.net>

>
>Angelology is a slippery slope. i see one of most important assurances
>that the bible (both ot and nt) gives us - is that this angelology (and
>demonology) is absolutely NOT REQUIRED for the salvation of man or in
>man's relationship with god.

Actually, I never said it did. But it would be inappropriate to call
Jesus, Michael, now that Jesus is back in Heaven with his Father. He
has now been given the keys to death, thus he is the second most
powerful life form in the universe, God of course, being number one.

James, John 4:23,24 ,www.jw.org

>

[vivapa...@aol.com]

Along those lines King David was symbolic of Christ.

[Debra Dee McQueen Freeman]

Angels are angels, and
human souls are human souls.

Jesus was and is a human soul,
currently sitting at the right hand of
the Father God.

This is why scripture directly plainly
states that he and us were of the same
origin and that he is our brethren:

Hebrews 2
For the Lord God has not put into subjection to the angels
the world to come, (but rather to the righteous human soul
Jesus and the other righteous human souls)...But as the
scripture testifies, saying, What is man that thou art mindful
of him? and the Son of man (Jesus), that thou visitest him?
For thou hast made him (the Son of man human soul Jesus)
a little lower than the angels: and have crowned him with glory
and honor, and have set him ruler over the works of thy hands
(beginning when incarnate as Adam). Thou hast put all things in
subjection under his feet. By putting all things under his control,
God left nothing that he did not put under subjection to him.
But now we do not see yet that all things are in subjection
to him. We see that he is Jesus who humbled himself to be a
little lower than the angels, through his suffering and his death,
but now he is crowned with glory and honor; for he tasted
death for the sake of every one but God (because he human
soul Jesus was not and is not God). And it was meet and proper
for Jesus, in whose hand is everything and for whom are all things,
to bring many sons to glory, so that from the very beginning of
their salvation they are made perfect through sufferings. For both
Jesus who sanctifies and those who are sanctified ARE ALL OF ONE
ORIGIN: for this reason he is not ashamed to call them BRETHREN,
saying, I will declare thy name to my BRETHREN; in the midst of the
congregation will I praise thee. And again, I will put my trust in him.
And again, Behold me and the children which God has given me.
Forasmuch then as the (human soul) children are partakers of
flesh and blood, he also likewise partook of the same; and by his
death he has destroyed him who had the power of death, that is,
the devil. And he has released them who, through fear of death all
their lives, were subject to slavery. For he did not take on him the
pattern of angels; but he did take on him the seed of Abraham.
Therefore it was meet and proper that in every thing he should
resemble his BRETHREN, that he might be a merciful, and faithful
high priest in the things of God, to make reconciliation for the sins
of the people. For in that (human soul) he himself has suffered,
being tempted, he is able to help those (other human souls) who
are tempted.

All types of beings were created at once
by God in the beginning, before material creation.

Human souls were created for companionship with God.

Angels were created for helpers to God.

Was that soul lastly incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth
firstly incarnate as Adam? Scripture directly plainly
states that he was:

Colossians 1
Joyfully give thanks to God the Father, who has enlightened us and
made us worthy partakers of the inheritance of the saints, and has
delivered us from the power of darkness, and brought us to the
kingdom of his beloved Son, by whom we have obtained salvation
and forgiveness of sins. He is the image of the invisible God (notice
this does not say he is God, but that he is the image of the invisible
God - perfectly mirroring God's thoughts desires will), and THE FIRST-
BORN OF EVERY HUMAN BEING. And through him were created all
things that are in heaven, and on earth, visible and invisible; whether
imperial thrones, or lordships, or angelic orders, or dominions,
all things were in his hand and were created by him (in the beginning,
when there was just God and human souls, when he stepped-forward
to God and offered to help to bring the fallen human souls back to God,
and God then instituted a plan and program, with the input and help of
that one soul then considered and called Messiah or Savior, to try to
bring those fallen human souls back to Him God, including the creation
of the angels and the creation of the material Universe and the Earth).
And he is BEFORE ALL THINGS, and by him all things are sustained.
And he is the head of the body, the church: for he is the beginning,
the first-fruits of the resurrection from the dead; THAT IN ALL THINGS
HE MIGHT BE THE FIRST. For it pleased God to complete all things in him,
and by his hand to reconcile everything to himself.

Romans 5
Death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them who
had not sinned in the manner of the transgression of the
law by Adam, WHO IS THE LIKENESS OF HIM (JESUS)
THAT WAS TO COME.

[James]

"J. Abrams" <mr.j.a...@gmail.com>

>On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 1:30:35 AM UTC-3, Madhu wrote:
>> Angelology is a slippery slope. i see one of most important assurances
>> that the bible (both ot and nt) gives us - is that this angelology (and
>> demonology) is absolutely NOT REQUIRED for the salvation of man or in
>> man's relationship with god.
>>
>> * James <o6b8lb1rrp5hbqbcc...@4ax.com> :
>> Wrote on Sun, 05 Jun 2016 09:46:24 -0400:
>>
>> | First though, the word archangel means "a chief angel;" (Strong's
>> | Concordance) The prefex “arch” means “chief”. Like with the Indian
>> | tribes having only one chief, it is the same with the Bible. There is
>> | only one “chief” angel among all the angels. But since many angels are
>> | princes, the chief angel would not only be a prince, but a “great
>> | prince”.
>> | (see Daniel 12:1)
>> |
>> | The word Archangel is always in the singular, never the plural. And
>> | here the word “archangel” is connected with Jesus. 1 Thess 4:16,
>>
>> But this "one archangel" arugment is not valid, it refers to an office
>> or a post.

Alright, the single chief angel as a head of all the angels, has an
office or post as archangel.

>>
>> But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and
>> twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to
>> help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
>> (Daniel 10:13)
>>
>> Kjv renders it is "one of the chief princes" implying in Daniels' time
>> people perceived other angels as assigned over other functions. (I'm
>> assuming that these princes are of the angelic host and not human
>> leaders. biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/bsac/daniel10.pdf)

I am sure there was subordinate positions under the chief archangel.
It is like soldiers have a long list of officers under the president,
such as Ensign, Lieutenant, Admiral etc. But I don't see where the KJV
says there is more that one ARCHANGEL.

>>
>> | “ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with
>> | the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in
>> | Christ shall rise first:” (KJV)
>> |
>> | Would the voice of a lesser angel have an archangels voice? No, it
>> | takes an archangel to have the voice of an archangel. Also, the Bible
>> | shows the word “archangel” refers to “Michael”. (see Jude 9)
>> |
>> | So some simple logic: The lord (Jesus) is an archangel, and Michael is
>> | an archangel, and there is only ONE archangel, thus Jesus was Michael.
>> | Or mathematically, A= C and B= C, then A= B.
>>
>> I believe first order logic should categorically not be used in proving
>> spiritual truths which are inferred from scripure. Especially in
>> propositions quantifying ONE, NONE, ALL. It is invariably a trap
>> leading to error.

The Bible says to “reason” from the Scriptures. (Act 17:2,3) It is
kind of hard to “reason” without using some kind of logic. The Bereans
had the logic down pat. Ac 17:11,

"These Jews were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they
received the word with all willingness and examined the scriptures
daily to determine whether these things were so." (NAB)

>>
>> | The Bible shows Jesus to be head of the angels. (Heb 1:4; 1 Pe 3:22;
>> | Php 2:9-11) Other than God, there is no other being head of the angels
>> | than Michael (Jesus).
>>
>> [I think adventists etc., infer doctrines from the bible that though man
>> was created a little lower than the angels, he will, in the final
>> scheme of things first judge them and then rule over them, after
>> satan's defeat. Now I should repeat what i said at the top of my
>> message]

The directly above statement is not from James' post.

>
>
>
>RE:
>> But this "one archangel" arugment is not valid, it refers to an office
>> or a post.
>>
>> But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and
>> twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to
>> help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
>> (Daniel 10:13)
>>
>
>
>This comes from years of typing out scriptures...
>
>
>As you pointed out, and as I have posted in the past, Michael is but ONE of the CHIEF PRINCES.

But only ONE of an archangel.

>
>Most likely this was the angel Gabriel who was speaking to Daniel in Daniel 10:13:
>
>Daniel 10:13: But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
>
>
>We know that Michael is one of the CHIEF PRINCES and that he STANDS before God.

Yes, there could be many high-ranking angels that are princes. But
only one archangel, who is even over ALL of the prince angels.

>
>
>Luke 1:19: And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of G-D; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
>
>
>Who stands before God?

Many angels who God appoints for some assignment. That is why the
Bible shows that these angels speak for God so well, that they are
written about as if they are God. For example, in Moses' day, it
appeared that God stood before Moses and communicated with Him. But it
wasn't God that did, it was angels representing God. The apostle Paul
released that knowledge to us at Gal 3:19.

>
>
>The Cherubim or Living Creatures stand before God:
>
>
>Revelation 4:2-8:
>4:2: And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
>4:3: And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
>4:4: And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
>4:5: And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of G-D.
>4:6: And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
>4:7: And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
>4:8: And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord G-D Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
>
>
>I believe that THEY are also called CHIEF PRINCES.

Could be, I don't recall. But none are called an archangel.

>
>
>We know that Michael is one of the chief princes.
>
>
>We know that Michael stands before God.
>
>
>And we know that Satan is a CHERUB.

I didn't know that, or if I once did, I have forgotten. It is probably
best to say that Satan WAS a cherub. He was probably stripped of that
position when he sinned.

>
>
>And we know that Satan walked among the stones of fire BEFORE GOD'S THRONE.

You do know don't you, that most of Revelation is in signs or symbols,
and speaks metaphorically a lot.

>
>
>Ezekiel 28:
>28:14: Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of G-D; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
>28:15: Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
>
>
>BTW The four-faced Living Creature now called Satan previously COVERETH God's Throne with his WINGS.

He probably got them clipped then.

>
>
>I believe that the PRINCE (of the kingdom of Persia) who withstood the angel before another prince, namely Michael, came to help him was in fact Satan:

Or one of his demon princes. Notice the wording from this Bible
encyclopedia:

“Invisible demon princes governing the world powers of Persia and
Greece are mentioned at Daniel 10:13, 20.—Compare Eph 6:12”
(Insight on the Scriptures, Vol 2, pp. 228-229)

>
>
>Daniel 10:13: But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
>
>Who else could withstand an angel - who may have been a prince himself?

The Scripture says Michael. (Jesus prehuman life)

>
>
>This would make Satan a CHERUB and a PRINCE.
>
>
>Last note, it is interesting that Michael could not go and help this angel for 21 long DAYS.

That might have been God's will to permit it to go on for that long in
order to test Daniel, before God sent Michael to help him.

>
>
>These angelic battles are very real.

I recall that one angel killed several hundred thousand enemies of God
one night. I can't imagine the power being released during such a
heavenly battle with other angels. It probably makes nukes look like
firecrackers.

[Debra Dee McQueen Freeman]

Angels are not God, nor are they

written about as if they are God.

And there are two types of angels:

1. Fallen angels, which are currently
kept in chains of darkness unto
Judgment day - the ones who
followed Satan by materializing
physically and having sex with
human females, as Satan did with Eve
(see Genesis 6, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1);

2. Unfallen angels, the ones who
serve God.

> For example, in Moses' day, it
> appeared that God stood before Moses and communicated with Him. But it
> wasn't God that did, it was angels representing God. The apostle Paul
> released that knowledge to us at Gal 3:19.

IT WAS GOD WHO STOOD BEFORE MOSES AND COMMUNICATED WITH HIM:

EXODUS 3
God called to him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses.
And Moses said, Here am I.
And God said, Do not draw near; take your shoes from off your feet,
for the place whereon you are standing is holy ground.
Moreover God said, I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham,
the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look at God.

MATTHEW 22
But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was
said to you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac,
the God of Jacob?

MARK 12
Now concerning the rising of the dead, have you not read in the book of Moses,
how God said to him from the bush, I am the God of Abraham and the God
of Isaac and the God of Jacob?

THAT WAS THE "BURNING BUSH" INCIDENT.

AND EVEN WHEN THE TEN COMMANDMENTS WERE WRITTEN BY A FINGER
ON THE STONE TABLETS, IT WAS GOD'S FINGER:

EXODUS 31
And God gave to Moses, when God had made an end of talking with Moses
on mount Sinai, two tablets of testimony, the stone tablets written by
the finger of God.

DEUTERONOMY 9
And the Lord God gave me two tablets of stone, written with the finger of God;
and on them were written all the words which the Lord God had spoken with you
in the mountain out of the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly.

YOU MUST GIVE PRIORITY TO THE MAJORITY OF SCRIPTURE,
AND THE WORDS OF JESUS, IN ORDER TO PROPERLY
INTERPRET IT AND TO PROPERLY REPRESENT IT.

I GAVE YOU THIS CORRECT INSTRUCTION BEFORE, AND YOU
HAVE STUBBORNLY AND SINFULLY REFUSED TO FOLLOW IT
AND SO STILL KEEP POSTING JUNK.

[Madhu]

[Sorry Michael, I'll try to stop after this]

* James <b3lblbleg03p885gb...@4ax.com> :
Wrote on Mon, 06 Jun 2016 15:58:07 -0400:

| Madhu <eno...@meer.net>
|
|>Angelology is a slippery slope. i see one of most important
|>assurances that the bible (both ot and nt) gives us - is that this
|>angelology (and demonology) is absolutely NOT REQUIRED for the
|>salvation of man or in man's relationship with god.
|
| Actually, I never said it did. But it would be inappropriate to call
| Jesus, Michael, now that Jesus is back in Heaven with his Father. He
| has now been given the keys to death, thus he is the second most
| powerful life form in the universe, God of course, being number one.

The commandments against idolatry in Sinai also prohibited the
representation in bronze of thecovering cherubs over the mercy seat.
Still, the setting-up these images up became a stumblingblock for the
israelites who named the cherubs and worshipped them under the pretext
of "worshipping God".

The tanakh is careful not to name any angels, at least until we get to
Daniel's time. The only name given throughout the Old Testament is the
personal name of God, with markers of the conjunctive particle. For
what reason? No, I don't think it is "secrets only for those initiated
into the mysteries."

Now it is true that Michael, wherever he is named, is shown as an
antagonist of Satan, consistent with Rabbinic folklore, and consistent
with the purpose of the lamb of Revelation - "that he might destroy the
works of the devil." But does this necessitate equating the archangel
to the messiah and elevating the archangel to an even higher post (if it
were possible?) I think the bible uniformly attests that the messiah
has always been at God's right hand, from the beginning. And today, the
prince of the world is still the same prince of the world, 2000 years
ago, or do you not believe that. However the messiah will rectify
that. And when the messiah comes as in Rev. 19:16, the archangel could
well be acting in a supporting role. (also in 1Thess. 4:16).

(1Samuel 2:10) The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to
pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall
judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his
king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.

[James]

Debra Dee McQueen Freeman <dfre...@live.com>

Where in the Bible does it say that Satan had sex with Eve?

>(see Genesis 6, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1);
>
>2. Unfallen angels, the ones who
>serve God.
>
>> For example, in Moses' day, it
>> appeared that God stood before Moses and communicated with Him. But it
>> wasn't God that did, it was angels representing God. The apostle Paul
>> released that knowledge to us at Gal 3:19.
>
>IT WAS GOD WHO STOOD BEFORE MOSES AND COMMUNICATED WITH HIM:

Even if God left Heaven and came to the earth as a man, He would
vaporize that body.

Jesus said that NO ONE (on earth) has ever seen Almighty God. (except
for Jesus)

Said and done.

>
>I GAVE YOU THIS CORRECT INSTRUCTION BEFORE, AND YOU
>HAVE STUBBORNLY AND SINFULLY REFUSED TO FOLLOW IT
>AND SO STILL KEEP POSTING JUNK.

I wouldn't call the Bible “junk”, which is where I got all my ideas
from.
Esp Jesus at John 6:46.

[Debra Dee McQueen Freeman]

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 5:26:11 PM UTC-4, James
> Debra Dee McQueen Freeman

> >On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 7:48:17 PM UTC-4, James

> >> "J. Abrams"

Hypocrite: Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus would start
ruling Earth from Heaven in year 1914?

JW are false prophets and liars:
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/failed-1914-predictions.php

> >(see Genesis 6, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1);

Did you read these Bible chapters?

You need to.

> >2. Unfallen angels, the ones who
> >serve God.
> >
> >> For example, in Moses' day, it
> >> appeared that God stood before Moses and communicated with Him. But it
> >> wasn't God that did, it was angels representing God. The apostle Paul
> >> released that knowledge to us at Gal 3:19.
> >
> >IT WAS GOD WHO STOOD BEFORE MOSES AND COMMUNICATED WITH HIM:
>
> Even if God left Heaven and came to the earth as a man, He would
> vaporize that body.

He would vaporize that body?

What drugs are you on?

God can do anything, manifest as anything, and
it is His choice, not your's.

> Jesus said that NO ONE (on earth) has ever seen Almighty God. (except
> for Jesus)

Quote him.

Liar.

Jesus was not and is not an archangel.

> >I GAVE YOU THIS CORRECT INSTRUCTION BEFORE, AND YOU
> >HAVE STUBBORNLY AND SINFULLY REFUSED TO FOLLOW IT
> >AND SO STILL KEEP POSTING JUNK.
>
> I wouldn't call the Bible “junk”,

I wouldn't either.

You are an evil liar suggesting that I did.

> which is where I got all my ideas from.
> Esp Jesus at John 6:46.

Liar.

You got all your ideas from that JW
cult that you joined yourself to.

[James]

Madhu <eno...@meer.net>

Probably so, but that doesns't mean he will always be there, such as
when God sends him on an asssignment.

>And today, the
>prince of the world is still the same prince of the world, 2000 years
>ago, or do you not believe that.

Actually, he is the chief or great prince.

> However the messiah will rectify
>that. And when the messiah comes as in Rev. 19:16, the archangel could
>well be acting in a supporting role. (also in 1Thess. 4:16).

Rev 19:16,

“And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF
KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” (KJV)

It says nothing here about Jesus not being Michael.

>
> (1Samuel 2:10) The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to
> pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall
> judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his
> king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.

No Michael mentioned here either.

1 Thes 4:13,

“ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with
the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in
Christ shall rise first:” (KJV)

It takes the voice of an archangel to be an archangel. Jesus would not
use the voice of a lessor angel, but rather his own voice. (which is
an archangel's voice.)

[Madhu]

* James <aj8hlb9qbmmb0qgm7...@4ax.com> :
Wrote on Wed, 08 Jun 2016 19:15:27 -0400:

|>And today, the prince of the world is still the same prince of the
|>world, 2000 years ago, or do you not believe that.
|
| Actually, he is the chief or great prince.

this also missed my point: in this particular sentence, i meant this
prince of the world:

(John 12:31) Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the
prince of this world be cast out.

[Debra Dee McQueen Freeman]

So, either:

1. Jesus shouts, AND an archangel vocalizes,
AND God blows a trumpet, OR

1. The shout is the vocalization
of the archangel, AND God blows a trumpet.

This nowhere says or suggests that Jesus is the mentioned archangel.

Also, Daniel 12 directly states that angel Michael shall oversee the day of
the return of Jesus - so obviously "the archangel" being spoken of here is
archangel Michael:

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael arise, the great angel who has charge
over your people; and there shall be a time of trouble such as never
has been like it since the beginning of the world; and at that very
time some of your people shall be delivered, every one whose name
shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in
the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some
to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who have done good
and the men of understanding shall shine as the brightness of the
firmament; and those who have turned many to righteousness shall
shine and stand like stars for ever and ever.

> It takes the voice of an archangel to be an archangel. Jesus would not
> use the voice of a lessor angel, but rather his own voice. (which is
> an archangel's voice.)

The Holy Bible does not say or intimate anywhere that Jesus was and/or
is an archangel.

Also, Jesus himself prophesied regarding the new body that would be
given to the righteous - Jesus being the first recipient of same when God
resurrected Jesus from the dead and for which Jesus is called the "first-fruits" -
would be "like the angels" (can be moved at will, materialized at will,
dematerialized at will; is not amenable to the known laws of physics;
is indestructible and eternal [the explanation as to how Jesus suddenly
appeared in the Upper Room with closed and locked doors, and
the explanation as to how the raptured resurrected righteous will be
floating in the air above the clouds above Mount Olives to meet and
greet and join Jesus as he finishes his descent back to Mount Olives
whence he last left it the day that he is slated to return to same]):

1 Corinthians 15
Now if it is preached that Christ rose from the dead,
how can some say among you that there is no
resurrection of the dead? And if there is no
resurrection of the dead, then Christ also has not
risen: And if Christ is not risen, then is our preaching
in vain, and your faith is also in vain; And we are
also found false witnesses of God; because we have
testified of God that he raised up Christ when he had
not raised him. For if the dead rise not, then neither
did Christ rise: And if Christ did not rise, your belief
is in vain; and you are yet in your sins. And also, then,
those who have died in Christ have perished. If in this
life only we have hope in Christ, then we are of all men
most miserable. But now we know Christ is risen from
the dead and become THE FIRST-FRUITS of those who
have died. For since by man came death, by man came
also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die,
even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man
in his own order: Christ THE FIRST-FRUITS; afterward
they who belong to Christ at his coming.

Matthew 22
Jesus answered, and said to them, You err, because you do not
understand the scriptures nor the power of God. For at the
resurrection of the dead, they neither marry women,
nor are women given to men in marriage,
but they are LIKE THE ANGELS of God in heaven.

Mark 12
Jesus said to them, Do you not err, because you do not
understand the scriptures, nor the power of God?
For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry women,
nor are women given in marriage to men; but they are
LIKE THE ANGELS in heaven.

Luke 20
Jesus said to them, The sons of this world marry women,
and women are given to men in marriage. But those who
are worthy of the other world, and the resurrection from
the dead, neither take women in marriage nor are women
given in marriage to men. For they cannot die again,
because they are LIKE ANGELS; and they are sons of God,
because they are sons of the resurrection.

DOES IT ACTUALLY MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU,
O JW JAMES, THAT GOD SHOULD HAVE TO GIVE
DEAD JESUS AN ANGEL-LIKE BODY WHEN,
ACCORDING TO YOU AND YOUR UNBIBLICAL
LYING COHORTS, JESUS SUPPOSEDLY ALREADY
WAS AN ANGEL, EVEN SUPPOSEDLY ALREADY
AN ARCHANGEL?

HA HA HA ! ! !

USE YOUR BRAIN, MAN ! ! !

I HAVE ASKED YOU A NUMBER OF TIMES TO START
USING YOUR BRAIN AND TO START THINKING.

YOU HAVE YET TO FOLLOW THAT ADVICE MUCH
EITHER.

IF YOU HAD, YOU WOULD NO LONGER ALIGN
YOURSELF WITH THAT JW CULT.

[James]

Debra Dee McQueen Freeman <dfre...@live.com>

I asked you first. Then I will answer your question.

>
>JW are false prophets and liars:
>http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/failed-1914-predictions.php

JW's are human, and can make mistakes, just like ANY religion. I
suggest you get off those hate sites, and go to the mother load at the
JW website and find out things for yourself.

By the way, there is no JW literature which says the end was
definitely going to come in 1914. If Jesus didn't know, how would
they? Mt 24:36,

"But of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven,
nor the Son, but the Father alone." (NAB)

Also quoting 1800's JW literature, you will find a lot of mistakes,
such as believing in a pyramid. But the true religion will do it that
way. Pr 4:18,

"The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining
ever brighter till the full light of day." (NIV)

We are almost at the “full light of day”.

I will look at your link to see if they are lying. AND THEY ARE.
Nowhere does it say that the end of the world will come on 1914. They
are misinterpreting the JW's literature, and assuming that is what
they meant. BUT AS USUAL, they got it messed up.

What did end then, was the foretold times of the gentiles. That meant
that Jesus was in Heaven and took over kingdom power. To fulfill
Scripture Jesus has to reign with his enemies still around. Ps
110:1,2,

"1 Psalm 110 Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my
right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." 2 The
LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion; you will rule in the
midst of your enemies." (NIV)

Jesus told when he would start reigning. It was the start of a world
war. WW1. Mt 24:7,8,


6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not
troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not
yet.
7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in
divers places.
8. All these are the beginning of sorrows. (KJV)

Can't you see the contrast between ordinary wars here and there, and
the first World war where “ kingdom against kingdom” occurred.

>
>> >(see Genesis 6, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1);
>

What specific part of those verses do you want me to see?

>Did you read these Bible chapters?
>
>You need to.
>
>> >2. Unfallen angels, the ones who
>> >serve God.
>> >
>> >> For example, in Moses' day, it
>> >> appeared that God stood before Moses and communicated with Him. But it
>> >> wasn't God that did, it was angels representing God. The apostle Paul
>> >> released that knowledge to us at Gal 3:19.
>> >
>> >IT WAS GOD WHO STOOD BEFORE MOSES AND COMMUNICATED WITH HIM:
>>
>> Even if God left Heaven and came to the earth as a man, He would
>> vaporize that body.
>
>He would vaporize that body?

Sorry, I didn't word it right. If God appeared before any human body,
it would vaporize it.

>
>What drugs are you on?

Multiple prescription drugs.

>
>God can do anything, manifest as anything, and
>it is His choice, not your's.

No, according to the Bible God cannot do anything. For example, God
cannot lie. Titus 1:2,

"in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long
ages ago," (NASB)

God can only do righteous things, not unrighteous things. As silly as
it sounds, that means we can do things that God cannot. That is just a
fact of His perfect personality.

>
>> Jesus said that NO ONE (on earth) has ever seen Almighty God. (except
>> for Jesus)
>
>Quote him.

Sure. Joh 6:46,

"No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he
has seen the Father." (NIV)

You didn't complete it. 'Liar, liar, pants on fire'.

>
>Jesus was not and is not an archangel.

That would be true for the present time, but in the past he was likely
Michael. The Bible says that Jesus will come with an archangel's
voice. It takes an archangel to have the voice of an archangel. Jesus
would never lower his voice as something inferior to him. (see 1 Thess
4:16) And the word “archangel” is always singular in form. And the
Bible never lists more than one.

>
>> >I GAVE YOU THIS CORRECT INSTRUCTION BEFORE, AND YOU
>> >HAVE STUBBORNLY AND SINFULLY REFUSED TO FOLLOW IT
>> >AND SO STILL KEEP POSTING JUNK.
>>
>> I wouldn't call the Bible “junk”,
>
>I wouldn't either.
>
>You are an evil liar suggesting that I did.

Sorry if I offended you, that was not my purpose. But what am I
supposed to think? I post things from the Bible. If you call the
postings “junk”, then you are calling the Bible junk. Maybe you want
to reword it.

>
>> which is where I got all my ideas from.
>> Esp Jesus at John 6:46.
>
>Liar.
>
>You got all your ideas from that JW
>cult that you joined yourself to.

You don't know me from Adam. Yes I get some things from JW's, but not
all things. We are encouraged to do our own Bible researches. Doesn't
your religion ask you the same?

[James]

Madhu <eno...@meer.net>

Yes, that is so true. Satan will be cast out.

[James]

Debra Dee McQueen Freeman <dfre...@live.com>

The archangel's voice comes from Jesus. That makes him the archangel.

>AND God blows a trumpet, OR
>
>1. The shout is the vocalization
>of the archangel, AND God blows a trumpet.
>
>This nowhere says or suggests that Jesus is the mentioned archangel.
>
>Also, Daniel 12 directly states that angel Michael shall oversee the day of
>the return of Jesus - so obviously "the archangel" being spoken of here is
>archangel Michael:
>
>Daniel 12
>And at that time shall Michael arise, the great angel who has charge
>over your people; and there shall be a time of trouble such as never
>has been like it since the beginning of the world; and at that very
>time some of your people shall be delivered, every one whose name
>shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in
>the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some
>to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who have done good
>and the men of understanding shall shine as the brightness of the
>firmament; and those who have turned many to righteousness shall
>shine and stand like stars for ever and ever.

Yes, and those archangel's actions fits Jesus' actions.

>
>> It takes the voice of an archangel to be an archangel. Jesus would not
>> use the voice of a lessor angel, but rather his own voice. (which is
>> an archangel's voice.)
>
>The Holy Bible does not say or intimate anywhere that Jesus was and/or
>is an archangel.

That conclusion is by inference. If it walks like a duck and quacks
like a duck, and looks like a duck then......

>
>Also, Jesus himself prophesied regarding the new body that would be
>given to the righteous - Jesus being the first recipient of same when God
>resurrected Jesus from the dead and for which Jesus is called the "first-fruits" -
>would be "like the angels" (can be moved at will, materialized at will,
>dematerialized at will; is not amenable to the known laws of physics;
>is indestructible and eternal [the explanation as to how Jesus suddenly
>appeared in the Upper Room with closed and locked doors, and
>the explanation as to how the raptured resurrected righteous will be
>floating in the air above the clouds above Mount Olives to meet and
>greet and join Jesus as he finishes his descent back to Mount Olives
>whence he last left it the day that he is slated to return to same]):

Negatrons. The world will never see with their eyes, Jesus again. And
no one has.

>
>1 Corinthians 15
>Now if it is preached that Christ rose from the dead,
>how can some say among you that there is no
>resurrection of the dead?

You see, even in the first century congregations, there were
inaccurate
Bible sayings.

You said it, I did not.

Jesus was raised with a SPIRIT body. Since spirits are invisible in
their natural state, Jesus had to materialize a human body in order to
be seen by humans. And he did. That why he was not recognizable by his
followers, several times. Mary Magdalene, when she saw Jesus, thought
he was the gardener.

>
>USE YOUR BRAIN, MAN ! ! !
>
>I HAVE ASKED YOU A NUMBER OF TIMES TO START
>USING YOUR BRAIN AND TO START THINKING.

That has already occurred.

>
>YOU HAVE YET TO FOLLOW THAT ADVICE MUCH
>EITHER.
>
>IF YOU HAD, YOU WOULD NO LONGER ALIGN
>YOURSELF WITH THAT JW CULT.

Where would I go? The JW's have the Bible truths. The churches are
stagnated in their false beliefs and constantly disobey Jesus'
commands.
For example, most all the churches of Christendom go to the wars of
this world. Yet their professed leader Jesus plainly said at Mt 5:44,

"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute
you," (NASB)

If all the churches obeyed Jesus' command, things would probably be a
lot different today.

[James]

vivapa...@aol.com

[James]

vivapa...@aol.com

I do believe you are correct.

[Debra Dee McQueen Freeman]

YOU TRULY ARE DULL.

> >JW are false prophets and liars:
> >http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/failed-1914-predictions.php
>
> JW's are human, and can make mistakes, just like ANY religion. I
> suggest you get off those hate sites, and go to the mother load at the
> JW website and find out things for yourself.

YOU ARE CONTENTIOUS AND WRONG YET AGAIN:

I AM NOT ON HATE SITES.

I MERELY SEARCHED "JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES 1914".

> By the way, there is no JW literature which says the end was
> definitely going to come in 1914.

YES THERE HAS BEEN.

THESE ARE QUOTED IN THE LINK THAT I GAVE.

> If Jesus didn't know, how would
> they? Mt 24:36,
>
> "But of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven,
> nor the Son, but the Father alone." (NAB)
>
> Also quoting 1800's JW literature, you will find a lot of mistakes,
> such as believing in a pyramid. But the true religion will do it that
> way. Pr 4:18,
>
> "The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining
> ever brighter till the full light of day." (NIV)
>
> We are almost at the “full light of day”.

DULL MAN.

THAT PASSAGE IS ABOUT INCREASING VIRTUE,
NOT ABOUT INCREASING KNOWLEDGE.

> I will look at your link to see if they are lying. AND THEY ARE.
> Nowhere does it say that the end of the world will come on 1914. They
> are misinterpreting the JW's literature, and assuming that is what
> they meant. BUT AS USUAL, they got it messed up.
>
> What did end then, was the foretold times of the gentiles.

THE TIME OF THE GENTILES HAS NOT EVEN STARTED.
IT STARTS TIME/TIMES/HALF - 3 1/2 YEARS - 42 MONTHS -
1,260 DAYS PRECEDING THE RETURN OF JESUS TO MOUNT OLIVES
WHENCE HE LAST LEFT IT, WHEN THE KING OF THE NORTH
(EUROPEAN UNION) INFILTRATES AND TAKES OVER ISRAEL:

REVELATION 11
AND there was given to me a reed like unto a rod:
and the angel stood, saying, Arise and anoint the
temple of God, and the altar, and those who worship therein.
But leave out the outer court of the temple, and do not anoint it;
for it has been given to the Gentiles; and they shall tread the
holy city under foot for forty and two months.

THOSE JW'S SURE DO TURN OUT A BUNCH OF JUNK.

> That meant
> that Jesus was in Heaven and took over kingdom power.

UNBIBLICAL MALARKY.

> To fulfill
> Scripture Jesus has to reign with his enemies still around. Ps
> 110:1,2,
>
> "1 Psalm 110 Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my
> right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." 2 The
> LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion; you will rule in the
> midst of your enemies." (NIV)

RULE YES - WITH A ROD OF IRON: THAT MEANS K I L L THEM,
IDIOT. AND THAT IS WHAT JESUS WILL DO THE DAY THAT HE
RETURNS TO MOUNT OLIVES WHENCE HE LAST LEFT IT -
HE WILL KILL ALL THOSE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN KILLED
ALREADY BY SOME OTHER MEANS.

> Jesus told when he would start reigning. It was the start of a world
> war. WW1. Mt 24:7,8,

WHAT A LIAR YOU ARE.

THE WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS OCCUR YEARS BEFORE THE
TWO LAST GREAT WARS - THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON AND
THEN THE BATTLE OF THAT GREAT DAY OF GOD ALMIGHTY.

THE WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS ARE MERELY 'BIRTH PANGS' -
THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS.

> 6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not
> troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not
> yet.
> 7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
> and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in
> divers places.
> 8. All these are the beginning of sorrows. (KJV)
>
> Can't you see the contrast between ordinary wars here and there, and
> the first World war where “ kingdom against kingdom” occurred.

IDIOT.

'NATION' THERE MEANS RACE - LIKE BLACKS AGAINST WHITES.

'KINGDOM' THERE MEANS GEOGRAPHICAL - LIKE RUSSIA AGAINST U.S.A.

THE MEANING IS NOT AT ALL WHAT YOU GIVE IT.

I HAVE YET TO SEE YOU EVER GIVE ANY CORRECT MEANING
TO ANY SCRIPTURE!

> >> >(see Genesis 6, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1);
> >
> What specific part of those verses do you want me to see?

THE ONES THAT SAY THAT THE 'SONS OF GOD' - ANGELS -
CONJUGATED WITH THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN, LEFT THEIR
FIRST HABITATION (HEAVEN) TO DO SO, ARE NOW KEPT IN
CHAINS OF DARKNESS UNTO JUDGMENT DAY.

WHO THE HECK DO YOU THINK THOSE ANGELS WERE?

IT WAS LUCIFER, AND ONE THIRD OF THE ANGELS.

THAT WAS THEIR FALL FROM HEAVEN.

> >You need to.
> >
> >> >2. Unfallen angels, the ones who
> >> >serve God.
> >> >
> >> >> For example, in Moses' day, it
> >> >> appeared that God stood before Moses and communicated with Him. But it
> >> >> wasn't God that did, it was angels representing God. The apostle Paul
> >> >> released that knowledge to us at Gal 3:19.
> >> >
> >> >IT WAS GOD WHO STOOD BEFORE MOSES AND COMMUNICATED WITH HIM:
> >>
> >> Even if God left Heaven and came to the earth as a man, He would
> >> vaporize that body.
> >
> >He would vaporize that body?
>
> Sorry, I didn't word it right. If God appeared before any human body,
> it would vaporize it.

YOU ARE AN UNBIBLICAL LIAR.

GOD DID APPEAR BEFORE HUMAN BODIES -
MANY TIMES RECORDED IN THE HOLY BIBLE.

> >What drugs are you on?
>
> Multiple prescription drugs.

I BELIEVE IT.

> >God can do anything, manifest as anything, and
> >it is His choice, not your's.
>
> No, according to the Bible God cannot do anything. For example, God
> cannot lie. Titus 1:2,

IDIOT.

THE SUBJECT IS NOT ABOUT TALKING.

> "in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long
> ages ago," (NASB)

POOR TRANSLATION.

GOD HAS FREE WILL.

GOD IS NOT A ROBOT.

GOD CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS.

> God can only do righteous things, not unrighteous things. As silly as
> it sounds, that means we can do things that God cannot. That is just a
> fact of His perfect personality.
>
> >
> >> Jesus said that NO ONE (on earth) has ever seen Almighty God. (except
> >> for Jesus)
> >
> >Quote him.
>
> Sure. Joh 6:46,
>
> "No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he
> has seen the Father." (NIV)

JOHN 6
No man can see the Father,
except he who is from God,
he can see the Father.

I AM FROM GOD, AND
I CAN SEE THE FATHER.

IT WAS Y O U WHO TITLED THIS THREAD

"Jesus is Michael".

GET YOUR MEDS ADJUSTED RIGHT.

> The Bible says that Jesus will come with an archangel's
> voice. It takes an archangel to have the voice of an archangel. Jesus
> would never lower his voice as something inferior to him. (see 1 Thess
> 4:16) And the word “archangel” is always singular in form. And the
> Bible never lists more than one.

NO IT DOES NOT.

IT SAYS "THE ARCHANGEL", NOT "AN ARCHANGEL".

IT IS "THE" ARCHANGEL SCHEDULED TO OVERSEE THE DAY OF
JESUS' RETURN - ARCHANGEL MICHAEL.

THAT MICHAEL GIVES A SHOUT OR SOME OTHER VOCALIZATION AND
GOD SOUNDS A TRUMPET. CAN'T THERE BE SOME FANFARE SUCH AS
THIS WHEN JESUS BEGINS HIS DESCENT? YOU SAY JESUS HAS TO
TOOT HIS OWN HORN. HA HA HA ! ! ! YOU LIKE TO BE WRONG AND
TO MAKE NO SENSE.

> >> >I GAVE YOU THIS CORRECT INSTRUCTION BEFORE, AND YOU
> >> >HAVE STUBBORNLY AND SINFULLY REFUSED TO FOLLOW IT
> >> >AND SO STILL KEEP POSTING JUNK.
> >>
> >> I wouldn't call the Bible “junk”,
> >
> >I wouldn't either.
> >
> >You are an evil liar suggesting that I did.
>
> Sorry if I offended you, that was not my purpose. But what am I
> supposed to think? I post things from the Bible.

YOU HAVE NOT POSTED ANYTHING FROM THE BIBLE.

YOU POST SCRIPTURE QUOTES AND THEN GIVE THEM
INTERPRETATIONS THAT GO AGAINST MANY OTHER
SCRIPTURES.

LIKE WHEN YOU SAID THERE ARE NO DEAD SPIRITS.
YET THE BIBLE DIRECTLY PLAINLY STATES THAT JESUS
PREACHED TO THE DEAD (1 PETER 4), AND JESUS HIMSELF
PLAINLY TAUGHT THAT THE DEAD ARE COGNIZANT (LUKE 16).
ALL OF THE JW TEACHINGS ARE JUNK, EXCEPT FOR THAT
GOD AND JESUS ARE TWO BEINGS NOT ONE AND THE
SAME BEING.

> If you call the
> postings “junk”, then you are calling the Bible junk. Maybe you want
> to reword it.

THAT JESUS WAS AND/OR IS MICHAEL IS JUNK.
THAT JESUS HAS BEEN RULING FROM HEAVEN SINCE 1914 IS JUNK.
THAT THERE ARE NO DEAD SPIRITS IS JUNK.
THAT THERE ARE A BUNCH OF DEMONIC ANGELS ON THE LOOSE IS JUNK.
THAT ASTROLOGY TAROT CARDS ETC. ARE DEMONIC IS JUNK.
THAT SALVATION IS NOT EARNED IS JUNK.
THAT THE EARTH SHALL EXIST FOREVER IS JUNK.
THAT PEOPLE NEED A RELIGION IS JUNK.
THAT PEOPLE SHOULD JOIN JW IS JUNK.

> >> which is where I got all my ideas from.
> >> Esp Jesus at John 6:46.
> >
> >Liar.
> >
> >You got all your ideas from that JW
> >cult that you joined yourself to.
>
> You don't know me from Adam.

YOU HAVE BEEN POSTING HERE FOR A LONG TIME.

EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE SAID IS WHAT THE JW SAY.

> Yes I get some things from JW's, but not
> all things. We are encouraged to do our own Bible researches. Doesn't
> your religion ask you the same?

MY RELIGION?

I AM A BIBLICIST.

JESUS WAS A BIBLICIST.

JESUS AND I WORSHIP GOD AND GOD'S WORD.

WE DO NOT WORSHIP MAN AND HIS MAN-MADE RELIGIONS.

JESUS RAILED-AT THE RELIGIONISTS THE MOST AND
SAID THAT THE TRUE WORSHIPERS WORSHIP GOD NOT
IN THE MOUNTAIN (AS THE SAMARITANS) NOR
IN THE TEMPLE (AS THE JEWS), BUT IN SPIRIT (HEART)
AND IN TRUTH (MIND).

JESUS HAD A LIVING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LIVING GOD.

I HAVE A LIVING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LIVING GOD.

I NEED SOMETHING MORE THAN THAT?

HA HA HA ! ! !

WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE GOD,
THEN YOU NEED RELIGION.

[James]

Debra Dee McQueen Freeman <dfre...@live.com>

And by going on that site you can't see that it is an anti-JW sight?

>
>> By the way, there is no JW literature which says the end was
>> definitely going to come in 1914.
>
>YES THERE HAS BEEN.
>
>THESE ARE QUOTED IN THE LINK THAT I GAVE.

I didn't see any. Try quoting them again. Maybe I missed something.
Remember we are talking about the end of the world.

>
>> If Jesus didn't know, how would
>> they? Mt 24:36,
>>
>> "But of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven,
>> nor the Son, but the Father alone." (NAB)
>>
>> Also quoting 1800's JW literature, you will find a lot of mistakes,
>> such as believing in a pyramid. But the true religion will do it that
>> way. Pr 4:18,
>>
>> "The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining
>> ever brighter till the full light of day." (NIV)
>>
>> We are almost at the “full light of day”.
>
>DULL MAN.
>
>THAT PASSAGE IS ABOUT INCREASING VIRTUE,
>NOT ABOUT INCREASING KNOWLEDGE.

One increases their knowledge if they increase their virtue. And they
get that virtue from the Bible. (2 Ti 3:16) You must see the true
religion fulfilling Pr 4:18 over the years, etc.

>
>> I will look at your link to see if they are lying. AND THEY ARE.
>> Nowhere does it say that the end of the world will come on 1914. They
>> are misinterpreting the JW's literature, and assuming that is what
>> they meant. BUT AS USUAL, they got it messed up.
>>
>> What did end then, was the foretold times of the gentiles.
>
>THE TIME OF THE GENTILES HAS NOT EVEN STARTED.
>IT STARTS TIME/TIMES/HALF - 3 1/2 YEARS - 42 MONTHS -
>1,260 DAYS PRECEDING THE RETURN OF JESUS TO MOUNT OLIVES
>WHENCE HE LAST LEFT IT, WHEN THE KING OF THE NORTH
>(EUROPEAN UNION) INFILTRATES AND TAKES OVER ISRAEL:
>
>REVELATION 11
>AND there was given to me a reed like unto a rod:
>and the angel stood, saying, Arise and anoint the
>temple of God, and the altar, and those who worship therein.
>But leave out the outer court of the temple, and do not anoint it;
>for it has been given to the Gentiles; and they shall tread the
>holy city under foot for forty and two months.
>
>THOSE JW'S SURE DO TURN OUT A BUNCH OF JUNK.

I don't even know where to start to make the necessary corrections.
Just ask if you want to see the proof that 1914 was the end of the
gentiles domination.

You also are apparently waiting for a physical return of Jesus to the
Mount of Olives. That won't happen, since Jesus no longer has a
physical body. Jesus said the world will not literally see him ever
again, so he can't come back with a physical body, esp the one he gave
up for the ransom. (see John 14:19)

>
>> That meant
>> that Jesus was in Heaven and took over kingdom power.
>
>UNBIBLICAL MALARKY.

Your opinion is noted.

>
>> To fulfill
>> Scripture Jesus has to reign with his enemies still around. Ps
>> 110:1,2,
>>
>> "1 Psalm 110 Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my
>> right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." 2 The
>> LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion; you will rule in the
>> midst of your enemies." (NIV)
>
>RULE YES - WITH A ROD OF IRON: THAT MEANS K I L L THEM,
>IDIOT. AND THAT IS WHAT JESUS WILL DO THE DAY THAT HE
>RETURNS TO MOUNT OLIVES WHENCE HE LAST LEFT IT -
>HE WILL KILL ALL THOSE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN KILLED
>ALREADY BY SOME OTHER MEANS.

See above at John 14:19 where the world will never again see Jesus.

>
>> Jesus told when he would start reigning. It was the start of a world
>> war. WW1. Mt 24:7,8,
>
>WHAT A LIAR YOU ARE.
>
>THE WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS OCCUR YEARS BEFORE THE
>TWO LAST GREAT WARS - THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON AND
>THEN THE BATTLE OF THAT GREAT DAY OF GOD ALMIGHTY.
>
>THE WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS ARE MERELY 'BIRTH PANGS' -
>THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS.
>
>> 6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not
>> troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not
>> yet.
>> 7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
>> and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in
>> divers places.
>> 8. All these are the beginning of sorrows. (KJV)
>>
>> Can't you see the contrast between ordinary wars here and there, and
>> the first World war where “ kingdom against kingdom” occurred.
>
>IDIOT.

Yes there is a lot of the Bible I need to know about. But I am very
comfortable with the Bible knowledge I presently know.

>
>'NATION' THERE MEANS RACE - LIKE BLACKS AGAINST WHITES.

Please prove it, or are you guessing?

>
>'KINGDOM' THERE MEANS GEOGRAPHICAL - LIKE RUSSIA AGAINST U.S.A.
>
>THE MEANING IS NOT AT ALL WHAT YOU GIVE IT.
>
>I HAVE YET TO SEE YOU EVER GIVE ANY CORRECT MEANING
>TO ANY SCRIPTURE!

It is difficult to show you what the Bible really teaches, when you
are this far away from Bible truths.

>
>> >> >(see Genesis 6, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1);
>> >
>> What specific part of those verses do you want me to see?
>
>THE ONES THAT SAY THAT THE 'SONS OF GOD' - ANGELS -
>CONJUGATED WITH THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN, LEFT THEIR
>FIRST HABITATION (HEAVEN) TO DO SO, ARE NOW KEPT IN
>CHAINS OF DARKNESS UNTO JUDGMENT DAY.
>
>WHO THE HECK DO YOU THINK THOSE ANGELS WERE?
>
>IT WAS LUCIFER, AND ONE THIRD OF THE ANGELS.

This happened in the days of Noah. The fallen angels were cohabiting
with the daughters of men. Something that they were not created to do.
And when they had babies from the daughters, these turned out to be
bullies; the Nephilim. They contributed to the violence occurring on
the earth then, which eventually led God to destroy them all, except
for Noah and his family.

Of course the fallen angels were not effected by the deluge. They just
dematerialized their physical bodies to escape the deluge. But their
hybrid offspring had real bodies and were drowned.

>
>THAT WAS THEIR FALL FROM HEAVEN.
>
>> >You need to.
>> >
>> >> >2. Unfallen angels, the ones who
>> >> >serve God.
>> >> >
>> >> >> For example, in Moses' day, it
>> >> >> appeared that God stood before Moses and communicated with Him. But it
>> >> >> wasn't God that did, it was angels representing God. The apostle Paul
>> >> >> released that knowledge to us at Gal 3:19.
>> >> >
>> >> >IT WAS GOD WHO STOOD BEFORE MOSES AND COMMUNICATED WITH HIM:
>> >>
>> >> Even if God left Heaven and came to the earth as a man, He would
>> >> vaporize that body.
>> >
>> >He would vaporize that body?
>>
>> Sorry, I didn't word it right. If God appeared before any human body,
>> it would vaporize it.
>
>YOU ARE AN UNBIBLICAL LIAR.
>
>GOD DID APPEAR BEFORE HUMAN BODIES -
>MANY TIMES RECORDED IN THE HOLY BIBLE.

Then Jesus lied? Joh 1:18,

"No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in
the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (KJV)

I hope you don't take that “bosom” remark as literal. It just means an
especially close relationship. (in another Scripture, the parable of
Lazarus and the rich man, the “bosom” of Abraham is not literal
either)

By the way, where did Moses and Abraham and Ezekiel, etc, go right
when they died?

>
>> >What drugs are you on?
>>
>> Multiple prescription drugs.
>
>I BELIEVE IT.

I am glad you believe something I wrote.

>
>> >God can do anything, manifest as anything, and
>> >it is His choice, not your's.
>>
>> No, according to the Bible God cannot do anything. For example, God
>> cannot lie. Titus 1:2,
>
>IDIOT.
>
>THE SUBJECT IS NOT ABOUT TALKING.

It is about lying, something that God cannot do.

>
>
>> "in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long
>> ages ago," (NASB)
>
>
>POOR TRANSLATION.
>
>GOD HAS FREE WILL.
>
>GOD IS NOT A ROBOT.
>
>GOD CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS.

Then that makes Titus 1:2 a lie!

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

>
>> God can only do righteous things, not unrighteous things. As silly as
>> it sounds, that means we can do things that God cannot. That is just a
>> fact of His perfect personality.
>>
>> >
>> >> Jesus said that NO ONE (on earth) has ever seen Almighty God. (except
>> >> for Jesus)
>> >
>> >Quote him.
>>
>> Sure. Joh 6:46,
>>
>> "No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he
>> has seen the Father." (NIV)
>
>JOHN 6
>No man can see the Father,
>except he who is from God,
>he can see the Father.

Your translation is not agreeable with many other translations:

-- Revised Standard
John 6:46 Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from
God; he has seen the Father.

-- International English
John 6:46 No one has seen the Father. The only one who has seen the
Father is the one who was with God.

-- Transliterated, Pronounceable
John 6:46 Ouch ho'ti to'n Pate'raheoo'rake'n tis ei-mee' ho oo'n
para' tou' Theou', hou'tosheoo'raken to'n Pate'ra.

-- Transliterated, Unaccented
John 6:46 Ouch hoti ton Pateraheoraken tis ei-me ho on para tou
Theou, houtosheoraken ton Patera.

-- New American Standard
John 6:46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is
from God; He has seen the Father.

-- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
John 6:46 Not that anybody has seen the Father,
except him who has his being from God:

he has seen the Father.

-- New American with Apocrypha
John 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is
from God; he has seen the Father.

-- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
John 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is
from God; he has seen the Father.

-- Young's Bible
John 6:46 not that any one hath seen the Father, except he who is
from God, he hath seen the Father.

-- Darby's Bible
John 6:46 not that any one has seen the Father, except he who is of
God, he has seen the Father.

-- Weymouth's New Testament
John 6:46 No one has ever seen the Father - except Him who is from
God. He has seen the Father.

-- Webster's Bible
John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he who is from
God, he hath seen the Father.

-- New Living Translation
John 6:46 (Not that anyone has ever seen the Father; only I, who was
sent from God, have seen him.)

>
>I AM FROM GOD, AND
>I CAN SEE THE FATHER.

You wouldn't be alive if you literally saw God. The Creator of those
trillions of suns out there is too much for our physical bodies to
handle.

But you can 'see' God with your spiritual eyes.

You give no or little support for your assertions. I must then assume
this is your opinion again.

>
>
>> >> >I GAVE YOU THIS CORRECT INSTRUCTION BEFORE, AND YOU
>> >> >HAVE STUBBORNLY AND SINFULLY REFUSED TO FOLLOW IT
>> >> >AND SO STILL KEEP POSTING JUNK.
>> >>
>> >> I wouldn't call the Bible “junk”,
>> >
>> >I wouldn't either.
>> >
>> >You are an evil liar suggesting that I did.
>>
>> Sorry if I offended you, that was not my purpose. But what am I
>> supposed to think? I post things from the Bible.
>
>YOU HAVE NOT POSTED ANYTHING FROM THE BIBLE.

How do they say it again? Liar, liar, pants on fire. You must have
completely different Bibles than I have.

>
>YOU POST SCRIPTURE QUOTES AND THEN GIVE THEM
>INTERPRETATIONS THAT GO AGAINST MANY OTHER
>SCRIPTURES.

In your opinion. I usually support my statements with Scriptural
proof.

>
>LIKE WHEN YOU SAID THERE ARE NO DEAD SPIRITS.
>YET THE BIBLE DIRECTLY PLAINLY STATES THAT JESUS
>PREACHED TO THE DEAD (1 PETER 4),

This “dead” is metaphorically meaning dead spiritually. As it says at
1 Pet 4:6,

“For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are
dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but
live according to God in the spirit.”

Notice that they “live” to God. Thus these people are not literally
dead. It is like Eph 2:1,

“ AND YOU he made alive, when you were dead through the trespasses and
sins “ (RSV)

It is a waste of time to preach to those literally dead, because they
are not conscious of anything. Ec 9:5,

"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is
forgotten." (NIV)

Ps 146:3,4,

"3 Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no
salvation. 4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very
day his thoughts perish." (NASB)

Jesus did go to where those fallen angels were, and likely preached a
message of doom. But they were all alive in Tartarus.

<AND JESUS HIMSELF
>PLAINLY TAUGHT THAT THE DEAD ARE COGNIZANT (LUKE 16).

Luke 16 is about the PARABLE of the rich man and Lazarus. It was not
meant to be taken literally.

>ALL OF THE JW TEACHINGS ARE JUNK, EXCEPT FOR THAT
>GOD AND JESUS ARE TWO BEINGS NOT ONE AND THE
>SAME BEING.

You just disagreed with most of the churches of Christendom, who
believe in the Trinity.

>
>
>
>> If you call the
>> postings “junk”, then you are calling the Bible junk. Maybe you want
>> to reword it.
>
>THAT JESUS WAS AND/OR IS MICHAEL IS JUNK.
>THAT JESUS HAS BEEN RULING FROM HEAVEN SINCE 1914 IS JUNK.
>THAT THERE ARE NO DEAD SPIRITS IS JUNK.

In the Bible, angels are called spirits. Every angel that has been
created, is still alive. Although they are dead spiritually, they
literally are alive. But their time is short and soon they will be
nonexistent along with the unrighteous humans.

>THAT THERE ARE A BUNCH OF DEMONIC ANGELS ON THE LOOSE IS JUNK.

Is Scriptural. That is why the Bible says “woe for the earth”. (Rev
12:12b) Because the Devil and his demon angels have been tossed down
to the vicinity of the earth.

>THAT ASTROLOGY TAROT CARDS ETC. ARE DEMONIC IS JUNK.

I never addressed that topic yet, but I agree with you. All forms of
spiritism are junk.

>THAT SALVATION IS NOT EARNED IS JUNK.

I don't recall stating such a thing. Salvation is earned, as Jesus
shows us at Mt 24:13,

"But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved." (NASB)

Thus salvation is conditional upon a person remaining righteous to the
end.

>THAT THE EARTH SHALL EXIST FOREVER IS JUNK.

Are you sure you have read the Bible? Ec 1:4,

"Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever."
(NIV)

And Ps 104:5,

"Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed
for ever." (KJV)

>THAT PEOPLE NEED A RELIGION IS JUNK.

God will judge those who do not follow the religion of the Bible for
whatever their reasons.

>THAT PEOPLE SHOULD JOIN JW IS JUNK.

It doesn't say that in the Bible. It does say that following the Bible
is a “beneficial” thing. (2 Tim 3:16)

>
>> >> which is where I got all my ideas from.
>> >> Esp Jesus at John 6:46.
>> >
>> >Liar.
>> >
>> >You got all your ideas from that JW
>> >cult that you joined yourself to.
>>
>> You don't know me from Adam.
>
>YOU HAVE BEEN POSTING HERE FOR A LONG TIME.
>
>EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE SAID IS WHAT THE JW SAY.

Of course, the true religion is one in thought. We don't have
dissidents like the churches do. We are one in belief and unified,
just as the true religion should be. 1 Co 1:10,

"I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that
all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions
among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought."
(NIV)

>
>> Yes I get some things from JW's, but not
>> all things. We are encouraged to do our own Bible researches. Doesn't
>> your religion ask you the same?
>
>
>MY RELIGION?
>
>I AM A BIBLICIST.

bib·li·cist
'bibl?s?st/
noun
noun: Biblicist; plural noun: Biblicists; noun: biblicist; plural
noun: biblicists
1. one who interprets the Bible literally.
Based on that definition, JW's are not Biblicists since we do not take
every word of the Bible literally. It depends upon context, original
languages, similar Scriptures, etc.

For example, when Jesus said he was a “door”, we know he meant that
metaphorically. (see John 10:9)


>
>JESUS WAS A BIBLICIST.
Not by the definition above.

>
>JESUS AND I WORSHIP GOD AND GOD'S WORD.
>
>WE DO NOT WORSHIP MAN AND HIS MAN-MADE RELIGIONS.

Neither do we. We go only by the Bible. No creeds, no church
teachings, no unwritten traditions, etc.

>
>JESUS RAILED-AT THE RELIGIONISTS THE MOST AND
>SAID THAT THE TRUE WORSHIPERS WORSHIP GOD NOT
>IN THE MOUNTAIN (AS THE SAMARITANS) NOR
>IN THE TEMPLE (AS THE JEWS), BUT IN SPIRIT (HEART)
>AND IN TRUTH (MIND).
>
>JESUS HAD A LIVING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LIVING GOD.
>
>I HAVE A LIVING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LIVING GOD.
>
>I NEED SOMETHING MORE THAN THAT?
>
>HA HA HA ! ! !
>

What's so funny?

>WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE GOD,
>THEN YOU NEED RELIGION.

The apostle Paul showed that there was religion. People are to gather
together to worship God. Paul even gives the qualifications for elders
and servants, etc, in the congregations. (for ex see 1 Tim 3:1-10)

James, 1 Cor 11:3 www.jw.org

[Debra Dee McQueen Freeman]

On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 3:37:29 PM UTC-4, James wrote:
> Debra Dee McQueen Freeman

YOU ARE AN EVIL LIAR.

THE HOLY BIBLE DOES NOT SAY THAT.

> >AND God blows a trumpet, OR
> >
> >1. The shout is the vocalization
> >of the archangel, AND God blows a trumpet.
> >
> >This nowhere says or suggests that Jesus is the mentioned archangel.
> >
> >Also, Daniel 12 directly states that angel Michael shall oversee the day of
> >the return of Jesus - so obviously "the archangel" being spoken of here is
> >archangel Michael:
> >
> >Daniel 12
> >And at that time shall Michael arise, the great angel who has charge
> >over your people; and there shall be a time of trouble such as never
> >has been like it since the beginning of the world; and at that very
> >time some of your people shall be delivered, every one whose name
> >shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in
> >the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some
> >to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who have done good
> >and the men of understanding shall shine as the brightness of the
> >firmament; and those who have turned many to righteousness shall
> >shine and stand like stars for ever and ever.
>
> Yes, and those archangel's actions fits Jesus' actions.

LYING IDIOT: JESUS' HAS CHARGE OVER ALL THE RIGHTEOUS -
JESUS DOES NOT HAVE CHARGE OVER THE JEWS. ARCHANGEL
MICHAEL HAS CHARGE OVER DANIEL'S PEOPLE - THE JEWS.

> >> It takes the voice of an archangel to be an archangel. Jesus would not
> >> use the voice of a lessor angel, but rather his own voice. (which is
> >> an archangel's voice.)
> >
> >The Holy Bible does not say or intimate anywhere that Jesus was and/or
> >is an archangel.
>
> That conclusion is by inference. If it walks like a duck and quacks
> like a duck, and looks like a duck then......

SMART PEOPLE LET THE ENTIRE BIBLE INTERPRET ITSELF ON
ANY GIVEN SUBJECT. THEY DO NOT MAKE CONCLUSIONS BASED
ON IMAGINED INFERENCES REGARDING SINGULAR SCRIPTURES.
YOU ARE AN IDIOT. GET LOST. THIS GROUP DOES NOT NEED
YOUR JW JUNK. BESIDE, IT IS FOR ALTERNATIVE IDEAS
REGARDING BIBLE PROPHECY. IT IS NOT FOR JUNK
THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN PUBLISHED AROUND THE
WORLD.

> >Also, Jesus himself prophesied regarding the new body that would be
> >given to the righteous - Jesus being the first recipient of same when God
> >resurrected Jesus from the dead and for which Jesus is called the "first-fruits" -
> >would be "like the angels" (can be moved at will, materialized at will,
> >dematerialized at will; is not amenable to the known laws of physics;
> >is indestructible and eternal [the explanation as to how Jesus suddenly
> >appeared in the Upper Room with closed and locked doors, and
> >the explanation as to how the raptured resurrected righteous will be
> >floating in the air above the clouds above Mount Olives to meet and
> >greet and join Jesus as he finishes his descent back to Mount Olives
> >whence he last left it the day that he is slated to return to same]):
>
> Negatrons. The world will never see with their eyes, Jesus again. And
> no one has.

EVIL LIAR:

DANIEL 7
I saw in the night visions, and behold,
one like the Son of man came upon
the clouds of heaven...

MATTHEW 16
For the Son of man will come in the glory of his Father
with his holy angels; and then he will reward each man
according to his works. Truly I say to you, There are men
who stand here, who will not taste death, until THEY SEE
the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

MATTHEW 24
Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in the sky;
and then all the generations of the earth will mourn,
and THEY WILL SEE the Son of man coming on the clouds of
the sky, with an army and great glory.

MATTHEW 26
Then the high priest answered and said to him,
I adjure you by the living God, to tell us if you
are the Christ, the Son of God? Jesus said to him,
You say that. But I say to you that from henceforth
you WILL SEE the Son of man sitting at the right hand
of the power, and coming upon the clouds of the sky.

REVELATION 1
Behold, he will come with the clouds;
and EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM,
even the men who pierced him;
and all the kindreds of the earth shall wail over him.
Even so, Amen.

> >1 Corinthians 15
> >Now if it is preached that Christ rose from the dead,
> >how can some say among you that there is no
> >resurrection of the dead?
>
> You see, even in the first century congregations, there were
> inaccurate
> Bible sayings.

INACCURATE BIBLE SAYINGS?

YOU REALLY CAN'T PROPERLY INTERPRET ANY PORTION OF
SCRIPTURE, CAN YOU ? ? ?

I DID NOT SAY IT, YOU DID.

> Jesus was raised with a SPIRIT body. Since spirits are invisible in
> their natural state, Jesus had to materialize a human body in order to
> be seen by humans. And he did. That why he was not recognizable by his
> followers, several times. Mary Magdalene, when she saw Jesus, thought
> he was the gardener.
>
> >
> >USE YOUR BRAIN, MAN ! ! !
> >
> >I HAVE ASKED YOU A NUMBER OF TIMES TO START
> >USING YOUR BRAIN AND TO START THINKING.
>
> That has already occurred.

PERHAPS YOU USED IT ONE TIME IN KINDERGARTEN.

YOU HAVE SERIOUSLY GONE DOWN HILL SINCE THEN.

> >YOU HAVE YET TO FOLLOW THAT ADVICE MUCH
> >EITHER.
> >
> >IF YOU HAD, YOU WOULD NO LONGER ALIGN
> >YOURSELF WITH THAT JW CULT.
>
> Where would I go?

HOW ABOUT TO GOD?

> The JW's have the Bible truths.

THEY ONLY HAVE ONE - THAT GOD AND JESUS ARE TWO
BEINGS NOT ONE. EVERYTHING ELSE THEY TEACH IS JUNK.

> The churches are
> stagnated in their false beliefs and constantly disobey Jesus'
> commands.

THEN JW MUST BE A CHURCH, AS THESE
TWO STATEMENTS DESCRIBE THEM.

> For example, most all the churches of Christendom go to the wars of
> this world. Yet their professed leader Jesus plainly said at Mt 5:44,
>
> "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute
> you," (NASB)

IDIOT.

SAYING SOMETHING TO INDIVIDUALS AS INDIVIDUALS DOES NOT
APPLY TO RESPONDING TO A PHYSICAL THREAT TO ONE'S FAMILY OR
CITY OR COUNTRY OR NATION.

> If all the churches obeyed Jesus' command, things would probably be a
> lot different today.

YES. THE EVILEST PEOPLE ON THE PLANET
WOULD NOW BE THE ONLY ONES ON IT.

USE YOUR BRAIN, MAN ! ! ! !

[J. Abrams]

The prince (Satan) of the king of Persia withstood the angel.

Daniel 10:13: But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Then Michael, who is only one of the chief princes, came to help him.

[Debra Dee McQueen Freeman]

NO.

I DID NOT GO ON THAT SITE - I CLICKED ON ONE OF THE SEARCH
RESULTS - AND THEN I SAW THE WORDS "FACTS ABOUT
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES" - AND THEN I SAW THAT THE
ARTICLE IS L O A D E D WITH LITERATURE QUOTES
FROM DISTANT PAST TO PRESENT.

IT TOTALLY APPEARS TO ME TO BE PRO-TRUTH AND ACCURATE.

> >> By the way, there is no JW literature which says the end was
> >> definitely going to come in 1914.
> >
> >YES THERE HAS BEEN.
> >
> >THESE ARE QUOTED IN THE LINK THAT I GAVE.
>
> I didn't see any. Try quoting them again. Maybe I missed something.
> Remember we are talking about the end of the world.

WHAT A LIAR YOU ARE.

THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE ARTICLE SAYS:

One of the most misleading statements in Watchtower publications is
that they accurately foretold 1914 to be the “start” of the conclusion of
this system of things. Rather, 1914 was predicted to be the “end” of the
system of things, the conclusion of Armageddon, and the start of the earthly paradise.

DOES NOT SAY "THE END OF THE WORLD".

AND FURTHERMORE, YEAR 1914 WAS NEITHER THE START OF THE
END OF THE SYSTEM OF THINGS, NOR THE END OF THE SYSTEM
OF THINGS.

THE START OF THE END OF THE SYSTEM OF THINGS, OR THE START
OF THE END TIMES, WAS WHEN JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED.

AND THE END OF THE SYSTEM OF THINGS, OR THE END OF THE END TIMES
AND THE START OF THE MILLENNIUM OF ONLY THE RIGHTEOUS ON EARTH,
SHALL BE ONCE JESUS AND THE RAPTURED RESURRECTED RIGHTEOUS
ALIGHT FROM THE AIR ABOVE THE CLOUDS ABOVE MOUNT OLIVES IN THE
EVENING ON THE DAY THAT GOD SIGNALS TO JESUS TO BEGIN HIS DESCENT BACK TO MOUNT OLIVES WHENCE HE LAST LEFT IT AND AS PROPHESIED TO OCCUR IN THE FUTURE BY THE TWO ANGELS IN ACTS CHAPTER 1 [ACTS 1:
As you have seen him go, so you shall see him come.] AND THEY KILL ALL
OF THE WICKED ON EARTH WHO HAVE NOT ALREADY BEEN KILLED BY
SEVERAL OTHER MEANS.

> >> If Jesus didn't know, how would
> >> they? Mt 24:36,
> >>
> >> "But of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven,
> >> nor the Son, but the Father alone." (NAB)
> >>
> >> Also quoting 1800's JW literature, you will find a lot of mistakes,
> >> such as believing in a pyramid. But the true religion will do it that
> >> way. Pr 4:18,
> >>
> >> "The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining
> >> ever brighter till the full light of day." (NIV)
> >>
> >> We are almost at the “full light of day”.
> >
> >DULL MAN.
> >
> >THAT PASSAGE IS ABOUT INCREASING VIRTUE,
> >NOT ABOUT INCREASING KNOWLEDGE.
>
> One increases their knowledge if they increase their virtue.

IDIOT.

ANYONE CAN INCREASE THEIR KNOWLEDGE BY EITHER
ENGAGING IN RESEARCH OR ELSE LEARNING THE ACCURATE
RESULTS OF ALREADY PERFORMED RESEARCH.

VIRTUE IS THE A P P L I C A T I O N OF ONE'S KNOWLEDGE,
AND TO DO SO LEADS TO UNDERSTANDING AND WISDOM.

THE MORE KNOWLEDGE YOU APPLY,
THE MORE UNDERSTANDING AND
WISDOM YOU WILL HAVE.

> And they
> get that virtue from the Bible. (2 Ti 3:16)

LIAR.

ONE DOES NOT "GET VIRTUE" FROM READING THE BIBLE.

ONE BECOMES VIRTUOUS BY APPLYING THE KNOWLEDGE
GAINED FROM READING THE BIBLE.

THAT IS WHY 2 TIMOTHY 3:16 SAYS M A Y
BECOME PERFECT:

2 TIMOTHY 3:16
All scripture written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is
profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and
for instruction in righteousness, so that God's people MAY
become perfect, thoroughly perfected for every good work.

> You must see the true
> religion fulfilling Pr 4:18 over the years, etc.

[QUIT BEING LAZY: IF YOU CITE SCRIPTURE,
QUOTE IT TOO. THAT IS THE ONLY THING
APPROPRIATE FOR THIS FORUM. YOU
CANNOT EXPECT READERS TO KNOW
THE ENTIRE BIBLE BY HEART, NOR
TO GET OUT A BIBLE AND LOOK
UP YOUR NON-QUOTED CITE.]


THE TRUE RELIGION?

THERE IS NO TRUE RELIGION.

PROVERBS 4:18
But the path of the righteous is like the shining light that
shines more and more, unto the perfect day.

A RIGHTEOUS PERSON -
SOMEONE WHO IS APPLYING THEIR KNOWLEDGE -
WILL GAIN MORE AND MORE UNDERSTANDING AND
WISDOM AS THEIR DAYS GO BY AND ALL THE WAY
UP UNTIL THE DAY OF THE RETURN OF JESUS.

> >> I will look at your link to see if they are lying. AND THEY ARE.
> >> Nowhere does it say that the end of the world will come on 1914. They
> >> are misinterpreting the JW's literature, and assuming that is what
> >> they meant. BUT AS USUAL, they got it messed up.
> >>
> >> What did end then, was the foretold times of the gentiles.
> >
> >THE TIME OF THE GENTILES HAS NOT EVEN STARTED.
> >IT STARTS TIME/TIMES/HALF - 3 1/2 YEARS - 42 MONTHS -
> >1,260 DAYS PRECEDING THE RETURN OF JESUS TO MOUNT OLIVES
> >WHENCE HE LAST LEFT IT, WHEN THE KING OF THE NORTH
> >(EUROPEAN UNION) INFILTRATES AND TAKES OVER ISRAEL:
> >
> >REVELATION 11
> >AND there was given to me a reed like unto a rod:
> >and the angel stood, saying, Arise and anoint the
> >temple of God, and the altar, and those who worship therein.
> >But leave out the outer court of the temple, and do not anoint it;
> >for it has been given to the Gentiles; and they shall tread the
> >holy city under foot for forty and two months.
> >
> >THOSE JW'S SURE DO TURN OUT A BUNCH OF JUNK.
>
> I don't even know where to start to make the necessary corrections.
> Just ask if you want to see the proof that 1914 was the end of the
> gentiles domination.

THE ONLY PROOF I NEED IS WHAT THE HOLY BIBLE SAYS.

AS I ALREADY SHOWED, IT DIRECTLY AND PLAINLY SAYS
THAT THE TIME OF THE GENTILES SHALL BE FOR
42 MONTHS PRECEDING THE RETURN OF JESUS.

YOU REALLY SHOULD BELIEVE THE HOLY BIBLE,
RATHER THAN THOSE JW PARROTS.

> You also are apparently waiting for a physical return of Jesus to the
> Mount of Olives.

THAT IS WHAT WAS PROPHESIED BY THE TWO ANGELS QUOTED IN
ACTS CHAPTER 1, AND THAT IS WHAT IS DEPICTED IN NUMEROUS
HOLY BIBLE PASSAGES, SUCH AS ZECHARIAH 14: And his feet shall
stand upon the mount of Olives, which is opposite Jerusalem on the east,
and the mount of Olives shall split in two, half toward the east and
the other half toward the west, and there shall be in it a great valley;
and half of the mountain shall be left toward the north, and half of it
toward the south. I WILL BELIEVE THE HOLY BIBLE, RATHER THAN
EVIL JW PARROTS SUCH AS YOURSELF.

> That won't happen,

EVIL LIAR.

> since Jesus no longer has a
> physical body.

EVIL LIAR:

LUKE 24
[Resurrected] Jesus said to them,
Why do you tremble? and why do thoughts
arise in your hearts? Look at my hands and
my feet, that it is I; feel me and understand;
for a spirit has no flesh and bones, as you see I have.

JOHN 20
When it was evening on that first day of the week,
and the doors were shut where the disciples were
staying for fear of the Jews, Jesus came,
stood among them, and said to them,
Peace be with you. He said this, and then
he showed them his hands and his side.
The disciples rejoiced when they SAW
our Lord....But Thomas, one of the twelve,
who is called the Twin, was not there with
them when Jesus came. And the disciples
said to him, We have seen our Lord.
He said to them, Unless I see in his hands
the places of the nails, and put my fingers in them,
and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.
Eight days later, the disciples were again inside,
and Thomas with them. Jesus came, when the
doors were locked, and stood in the midst,
and said to them, Peace be with you. Then he
said to Thomas, Bring your finger here, and SEE
my hands; and bring your hand and put it into my side;
and do not be an unbeliever, but a believer. Thomas
answered and said to him, O my Lord and my God!
Jesus said to him, Now you believe, because you
have SEEN me? Blessed are those who have not
seen me, and have believed. Many other miracles
Jesus did in the presence of his disciples, which
are not written in this book.

> Jesus said the world will not literally see him ever
> again, so he can't come back with a physical body, esp the one he gave
> up for the ransom. (see John 14:19)

LIAR:

JOHN 14:19
[Pre-crucified Jesus]
And the world will not see me,
BUT Y O U W I L L S E E M E .

AT ONE POINT, THERE WERE 500 GATHERED TOGETHER THAT
SAW HIM AFTER HE WAS CRUCIFIED BY MAN AND THEN
RESURRECTED BY GOD, IN ADDITION TO HIS 12 APOSTLES.

> >> That meant
> >> that Jesus was in Heaven and took over kingdom power.
> >
> >UNBIBLICAL MALARKY.
>
> Your opinion is noted.

"TOOK OVER KINGDOM POWER"?

WHICH KINGDOM?

HEAVEN?

EARTH?

NOT HEAVEN. HE IS SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD -
HE IS GOD'S RIGHT HAND MAN. HE IS NOT GOD. AND GOD
HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND SHALL ALWAYS BE THE TOP DOG:

1 CORINTHIANS 15
But when God said all things are put under Jesus,
it is clear that God, who put all things under Jesus,
is excepted. And when all things shall be subdued
unto God, then shall the Son also himself be subject
unto God who put all things under Jesus, so that
God may be all in all.

NOT ON EARTH. THE EARTH IS A SHAMBLES
CURRENTLY RULED BY SATAN:

2 CORINTHIANS 4
Satan, who is the god of this world.

THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WHEN ONLY JESUS AND
THE RAPTURED RESURRECTED RIGHTEOUS ARE
ON THE EARTH FOR ONE THOUSAND YEARS
STRAIGHT, AFTER HAVING KILLED ALL OF
THE WICKED ON THE EARTH WHO WERE
NOT ALREADY KILLED BY SOME OTHER
MEANS, AFTER HAVING ALIGHTED
FROM THE AIR ABOVE THE CLOUDS
ABOVE MOUNT OLIVES TO THE
MOUNT OLIVES AND REGION,
AFTER ARMAGEDDON OCCURRED
AND THE TWO WITNESSES WERE
KILLED AND LAY DEAD FOR 3 1/2
DAYS AND THEN WERE RESURRECTED
BACK TO LIFE - OR SAME DIFFERENCE
AFTER THE ENEMY NATIONS WERE
GATHERED TOGETHER AGAINST
JERUSALEM AS A FOOTSTOOL
FOR JESUS' RETURNING FEET
[ENEMY NATIONS:
THE MILITARIES OF

THE KING OF THE NORTH

EUROPEAN UNION AND
ITS ALLIES, PLUS THE
MILITARIES OF THE
KING OF THE EAST
CHINA AND ITS
ALLIES].

> >> To fulfill
> >> Scripture Jesus has to reign with his enemies still around. Ps
> >> 110:1,2,
> >>
> >> "1 Psalm 110 Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my
> >> right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." 2 The
> >> LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion; you will rule in the
> >> midst of your enemies." (NIV)
> >
> >RULE YES - WITH A ROD OF IRON: THAT MEANS K I L L THEM,
> >IDIOT. AND THAT IS WHAT JESUS WILL DO THE DAY THAT HE
> >RETURNS TO MOUNT OLIVES WHENCE HE LAST LEFT IT -
> >HE WILL KILL ALL THOSE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN KILLED
> >ALREADY BY SOME OTHER MEANS.
>
> See above at John 14:19 where the world will never again see Jesus.

IDIOT.

THE WORLD DID NOT NEED TO SEE JESUS YET.
THAT IS WHY THE WORLD DID NOT SEE HIM.

BUT THOSE WHO WERE HIS SAW HIM,
PLUS A GATHERING OF AT LEAST 500.

SEE MY TEXT ABOVE.

> >> Jesus told when he would start reigning. It was the start of a world
> >> war. WW1. Mt 24:7,8,
> >
> >WHAT A LIAR YOU ARE.
> >
> >THE WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS OCCUR YEARS BEFORE THE
> >TWO LAST GREAT WARS - THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON AND
> >THEN THE BATTLE OF THAT GREAT DAY OF GOD ALMIGHTY.
> >
> >THE WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS ARE MERELY 'BIRTH PANGS' -
> >THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS.
> >
> >> 6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not
> >> troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not
> >> yet.
> >> 7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
> >> and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in
> >> divers places.
> >> 8. All these are the beginning of sorrows. (KJV)
> >>
> >> Can't you see the contrast between ordinary wars here and there, and
> >> the first World war where “ kingdom against kingdom” occurred.
> >
> >IDIOT.
>
> Yes there is a lot of the Bible I need to know about. But I am very
> comfortable with the Bible knowledge I presently know.

THEN I GUESS THINKING THAT GOD AND JESUS ARE TWO
BEINGS RATHER THAN ONE AND THE SAME BEING IS
ENOUGH FOR YOU - BECAUSE SO FAR THAT IS ALL
THAT I HAVE SEEN OF TRUTH THAT YOU KNOW.

> >'NATION' THERE MEANS RACE - LIKE BLACKS AGAINST WHITES.
>
> Please prove it, or are you guessing?

OVER AND OVER AGAIN THE BIBLE REFERS TO DIFFERENT
PEOPLES AS 'NATIONS' - WHETHER DIFFERENT BECAUSE
OF RACE, OR DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF LOCATION.

> >'KINGDOM' THERE MEANS GEOGRAPHICAL - LIKE RUSSIA AGAINST U.S.A.
> >
> >THE MEANING IS NOT AT ALL WHAT YOU GIVE IT.
> >
> >I HAVE YET TO SEE YOU EVER GIVE ANY CORRECT MEANING
> >TO ANY SCRIPTURE!
>
> It is difficult to show you what the Bible really teaches, when you
> are this far away from Bible truths.

HA HA HA ! ! !

SUCH A GOOD JW PARROT ! ! !

> >> >> >(see Genesis 6, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1);
> >> >
> >> What specific part of those verses do you want me to see?
> >
> >THE ONES THAT SAY THAT THE 'SONS OF GOD' - ANGELS -
> >CONJUGATED WITH THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN, LEFT THEIR
> >FIRST HABITATION (HEAVEN) TO DO SO, ARE NOW KEPT IN
> >CHAINS OF DARKNESS UNTO JUDGMENT DAY.
> >
> >WHO THE HECK DO YOU THINK THOSE ANGELS WERE?
> >
> >IT WAS LUCIFER, AND ONE THIRD OF THE ANGELS.
>
> This happened in the days of Noah.

IT ONLY HAPPENED IN THE DAYS OF NOAH BECAUSE
AS THE HOLY BIBLE STATES, GOD THEN CHAINED UP
ALL OF THE FALLEN ANGELS - EXCEPT FOR LUCIFER -

IN CHAINS OF DARKNESS UNTO JUDGMENT DAY.

THERE ARE NO FALLEN DEMON ANGELS RUNNING AROUND
CAUSING HUMAN BEINGS TROUBLE OR OVERSEEING
ASTROLOGY AND TAROT CARDS, LIKE YOUR JW JUNK
TELLS PEOPLE.

> The fallen angels were cohabiting

COHABITING?

HA HA HA ! ! !

CONJUGATING - CONJUGATING - CONJUGATING.

SEX - SEX - SEX.

EVEN THE ANGELS WERE LED BY THEIR PENISES.

KING JAMES VERSION HAS THOUSANDS OF TRANSLATION ERRORS,
WHICH ARE CORRECTED IN THE GEORGE M. LAMSA TRANSLATION.

> I hope you don't take that “bosom” remark as literal.

IT HERE MEANS BEING IN GOD'S HEART,
BECAUSE ONE'S OWN HEART IS THE SAME.

> It just means an
> especially close relationship.

NOT SO.

SEE LAST TEXT.

> (in another Scripture, the parable of
> Lazarus and the rich man, the “bosom” of Abraham is not literal
> either)

JESUS DID MEAN IT LITERALLY.

ABRAHAM IS STILL ALIVE - OR RATHER THAT SOUL
THAT HAD BEEN INCARNATE IN THAT PHYSICAL BODY
NAMED ABRAHAM. GOD IS NOT A GOD OF THE DEAD,
BUT OF THE LIVING, AND GOD IS THE GOD OF
ABRAHAM AND ISAAC AND JACOB, AND SO
ABRAHAM AND ISAAC AND JACOB ARE STILL
EXISTENT OR ALIVE.

ALL THE WICKED ARE GATHERED WITH THE WICKED WHEN THEY DIE;
ALL THE RIGHTEOUS ARE GATHERED WITH THE RIGHTEOUS WHEN THEY DIE.

ALL NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES AND STUDIES PROVE JESUS' STATEMENT
HERE TOO.

> By the way, where did Moses and Abraham and Ezekiel, etc, go right
> when they died?

WHEREVER GOD WANTED THEM TO GO TO.

> >> >What drugs are you on?
> >>
> >> Multiple prescription drugs.
> >
> >I BELIEVE IT.
>
> I am glad you believe something I wrote.

WHAT YOU WROTE WAS PERSONAL.

SHOULD I NOT BELIEVE IT?

> >> >God can do anything, manifest as anything, and
> >> >it is His choice, not your's.
> >>
> >> No, according to the Bible God cannot do anything. For example, God
> >> cannot lie. Titus 1:2,
> >
> >IDIOT.
> >
> >THE SUBJECT IS NOT ABOUT TALKING.
>
> It is about lying, something that God cannot do.

A LIE IS DELIVERED BY VERBAL COMMUNICATION.

THE MANIFESTATION OF A PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT VERBAL
COMMUNICATION.

WHEN I REPLIED THAT GOD CAN D O ANYTHING,
I IN CONTEXT AND OBVIOUSLY MEANT SOMETHING PHYSICAL
NOT SOMETHING VERBAL.

BUT GOD CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS A N D
HE CAN SAY WHATEVER HE WANTS.

YOU SURE ARE A STRANGE CAT SATISFIED TO WORSHIP A GOD
WHO DOES NOT HAVE FREE WILL ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

MY GOD IS THE BIBLICAL GOD -
WHO IS:

ALL-KNOWING
ALL-POWERFUL
EVERYWHERE-PRESENT.

> >> "in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long
> >> ages ago," (NASB)
> >
> >
> >POOR TRANSLATION.
> >
> >GOD HAS FREE WILL.
> >
> >GOD IS NOT A ROBOT.
> >
> >GOD CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS.
>
> Then that makes Titus 1:2 a lie!

I AM NOT GOING TO LOOK THIS UP.

I AM TIRED OF YOUR LAZINESS.

YOU ARE LAZY, BUT THEN EXPECT
OTHERS TO NOT BE SO.

SEE WHAT A HYPOCRITE YOU
ARE IN THIS REGARD ALSO?
WARNING: ALL HYPOCRITES
SHALL BE THROWN INTO
THE LAKE OF FIRE
BURNING WITH
BRIMSTONE.

> You can't have your cake and eat it too.

TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE.

> >> God can only do righteous things, not unrighteous things. As silly as
> >> it sounds, that means we can do things that God cannot. That is just a
> >> fact of His perfect personality.
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> Jesus said that NO ONE (on earth) has ever seen Almighty God. (except
> >> >> for Jesus)
> >> >
> >> >Quote him.
> >>
> >> Sure. Joh 6:46,
> >>
> >> "No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he
> >> has seen the Father." (NIV)
> >
> >JOHN 6
> >No man can see the Father,
> >except he who is from God,
> >he can see the Father.
>
> Your translation is not agreeable with many other translations:

THANK GOODNESS.

DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT TRUTH IS RARE?

THE WORLD - THE WORLDLY - WHICH IS MOST SOULS/PEOPLE -
PREFER LIES AND VAIN IMAGININGS TO THE TRUTH.

GET A CLUE, JW PARROT.

WHAT A WASTE OF TIME AND EFFORT BY THE WORLDLY ONE
WHO LOVES THE WORLD AND ITS WAYS.

> >I AM FROM GOD, AND
> >I CAN SEE THE FATHER.
>
> You wouldn't be alive if you literally saw God. The Creator of those
> trillions of suns out there is too much for our physical bodies to
> handle.

IDIOT.

1. I AM NOT MY PHYSICAL BODY;
2. GOD CAN AND HAS MANIFESTED HIMSELF TO NUMEROUS PEOPLE -
THE HOLY BIBLE SAYS SO.

> But you can 'see' God with your spiritual eyes.

YOU CAN SEE GOD WITH SPIRITUAL EYES,
AND IF GOD SO WISHES YOU CAN SEE
HIM WITH YOUR PHYSICAL EYES TOO.
GOD CAN MANIFEST AS ANYTHING HE
WISHES TO MANIFEST AS.

BE SURE AND TOTALLY FAIL TO ADDRESS THIS MAJOR
GAFFE ON YOUR PART.

> >GET YOUR MEDS ADJUSTED RIGHT.
> >
> >
> >
> >> The Bible says that Jesus will come with an archangel's
> >> voice. It takes an archangel to have the voice of an archangel. Jesus
> >> would never lower his voice as something inferior to him. (see 1 Thess
> >> 4:16) And the word “archangel” is always singular in form. And the
> >> Bible never lists more than one.
> >
> >
> >NO IT DOES NOT.
> >
> >IT SAYS "THE ARCHANGEL", NOT "AN ARCHANGEL".
> >
> >IT IS "THE" ARCHANGEL SCHEDULED TO OVERSEE THE DAY OF
> >JESUS' RETURN - ARCHANGEL MICHAEL.
> >
> >THAT MICHAEL GIVES A SHOUT OR SOME OTHER VOCALIZATION AND
> >GOD SOUNDS A TRUMPET. CAN'T THERE BE SOME FANFARE SUCH AS
> >THIS WHEN JESUS BEGINS HIS DESCENT? YOU SAY JESUS HAS TO
> >TOOT HIS OWN HORN. HA HA HA ! ! ! YOU LIKE TO BE WRONG AND
> >TO MAKE NO SENSE.
>
> You give no or little support for your assertions.

ASSERTIONS(S)?

HA HA HA ! ! !

NO ASSERTION AT ALL.

FANFARE BY GOD AND THE ARCHANGEL
WHEN JESUS BEGINS HIS DESCENT BACK

TO MOUNT OLIVES WHENCE HE LAST LEFT IT

IS EXACTLY WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS,
AND TOTALLY PARALLELS NORMAL HUMAN
ACTIVITY AS WELL.

> I must then assume
> this is your opinion again.

YOU MUST NOT ANYTHING.

GOD GAVE YOU FREE WILL.

AND I DON'T HAVE A SINGLE OPINION.

EVERYTHING THAT I SAY HERE IS BASED
ON WHAT THE ENTIRE HOLY BIBLE SAYS,
ALLOWING THE ENTIRE HOLY BIBLE TO
INTERPRET ITSELF.

> >> >> >I GAVE YOU THIS CORRECT INSTRUCTION BEFORE, AND YOU
> >> >> >HAVE STUBBORNLY AND SINFULLY REFUSED TO FOLLOW IT
> >> >> >AND SO STILL KEEP POSTING JUNK.
> >> >>
> >> >> I wouldn't call the Bible “junk”,
> >> >
> >> >I wouldn't either.
> >> >
> >> >You are an evil liar suggesting that I did.
> >>
> >> Sorry if I offended you, that was not my purpose. But what am I
> >> supposed to think? I post things from the Bible.
> >
> >YOU HAVE NOT POSTED ANYTHING FROM THE BIBLE.
>
> How do they say it again? Liar, liar, pants on fire. You must have
> completely different Bibles than I have.

YES, SO TRUE.

MY BIBLE DOES NOT SAY THAT THE END TIMES STARTED IN YEAR 1914,
NOR THAT JESUS WAS AND/OR IS ARCHANGEL MICHAEL, NOR ANY
OF THE OTHER LUDICROUS UNBIBLICAL CRAP THAT YOU HAVE
POSTED TO THIS FORUM.

> >YOU POST SCRIPTURE QUOTES AND THEN GIVE THEM
> >INTERPRETATIONS THAT GO AGAINST MANY OTHER
> >SCRIPTURES.
>
> In your opinion.

NO.

NEVER.

I HAVE ALWAYS SHOWN SCRIPTURE QUOTES WHICH GO AGAINST
YOUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION OF SOME SINGULAR SCRIPTURE
OR SCRIPTURES.

> I usually support my statements with Scriptural
> proof.

YOU NEED TO CHANGE THAT TO ALWAYS.

> >LIKE WHEN YOU SAID THERE ARE NO DEAD SPIRITS.
> >YET THE BIBLE DIRECTLY PLAINLY STATES THAT JESUS
> >PREACHED TO THE DEAD (1 PETER 4),
>
> This “dead” is metaphorically meaning dead spiritually. As it says at
> 1 Pet 4:6,
>
> “For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are
> dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but
> live according to God in the spirit.”

S E R I O U S L Y ? ? ? ?

NOW YOUR MEDS ARE DEFINITELY DOING THE TALKING.

HOW BLIND OR DISHONEST CAN YOU BE ?

SAYS MEN IN THE SPIRIT VERSUS MEN IN THE FLESH.

JESUS PREACHED TO THE MEN IN THE SPIRIT WHEN
HE JESUS WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE THE THREE DAYS
AND THREE NIGHTS, SO THAT THEY MIGHT BE JUDGED
THE SAME AS THE MEN IN THE FLESH THAT HE HAD
ALREADY PREACHED TO FOR APPROXIMATELY 3 YEARS.

> Notice that they “live” to God.

LIAR.

IT DOES NOT SAY THAT.

IT SAYS: "that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but

live according to God in the spirit.”

SOULS DO NOT "LIVE TO GOD".

THEY EITHER LIVE TO GOD MOSTLY OR
ELSE LIVE TO SATAN MOSTLY -
IT IS EACH SOULS CHOICE
WHICH THEY WANT OR PREFER.

> Thus these people are not literally
> dead. It is like Eph 2:1,
>
> “ AND YOU he made alive, when you were dead through the trespasses and
> sins “ (RSV)

THAT PASSAGE IS ABOUT SPIRITUAL DEATH.

THE OTHER PASSAGES ARE ABOUT DISINCARNATE SOULS ON
THE OTHER SIDE OR SAME DIFFERENCE IN THE UNSEEN REALM
WHERE THE DISINCARNATE OR PHYSICALLY DEAD OR "DEAD"
RESIDE. JESUS PREACHED TO THEM WHEN HE WAS ON THE
OTHER SIDE.

> It is a waste of time to preach to those literally dead, because they
> are not conscious of anything. Ec 9:5,

GOD DOES NOT WASTE TIME,
AND SCRIPTURE TESTIFIES THAT
GOD WILL JUDGE BOTH THE CARNATE
LIVING SOULS AND THE DISINCARNATE
DEAD SOULS.

> "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing;
> they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is
> forgotten." (NIV)

HANG YOUR BELIEF ON ONE STATEMENT OF IMPERFECT SOLOMON
IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, RATHER THAN THE MAJORITY OF SCRIPTURES
ON THE SUBJECT AND PRIORITY TO JESUS' WORDS?

NO THANKS.

YOU CAN BE SUCH AN EXTREME IDIOT AND FOOL, BUT I SHALL NOT BE.

AND BTW: IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT THAT STATEMENT WAS MEANT BY
SOLOMON AS A RIDICULE AGAINST THE LIES AND VAIN IMAGININGS
OF THE STUPID POPULACE.

> Ps 146:3,4,
>
> "3 Do not trust in princes, In mortal man,

IN SOLOMON.

> in whom there is no
> salvation.
> 4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very
> day his thoughts perish." (NASB)
>
> Jesus did go to where those fallen angels were,

JESUS NEVER PREACHED TO ANGELS ! ! ! !

AND THERE IS NO "WERE" - IN CHAINS OF DARKNESS
IS WHERE THOSE ANGELS STILL ARE AND WILL BE
UNTO JUDGMENT DAY ! ! ! !

> and likely preached a
> message of doom. But they were all alive in Tartarus.
>
>
> <AND JESUS HIMSELF
> >PLAINLY TAUGHT THAT THE DEAD ARE COGNIZANT (LUKE 16).
>
> Luke 16 is about the PARABLE of the rich man and Lazarus. It was not
> meant to be taken literally.

WOW! WHAT AN IDIOT AND/OR LIAR YOU ARE!

JESUS NEVER SAID IT WAS A PARABLE.

AND IT WAS MEANT TO BE TAKEN AS A STORY
ILLUSTRATIVE OF FACT, TRUTH, REALITY.

> >ALL OF THE JW TEACHINGS ARE JUNK, EXCEPT FOR THAT
> >GOD AND JESUS ARE TWO BEINGS NOT ONE AND THE
> >SAME BEING.
>
>
>
> You just disagreed with most of the churches of Christendom, who
> believe in the Trinity.

JAMES, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY AT THIS GROUP
THAT I AM A SPIRITUAL BIBLICIST, EXACTLY AS JESUS WAS,
AND AS IS PREACHED BY THE HOLY BIBLE ITSELF.

THE HOLY BIBLE DOES NOT PREACH RELIGION.

AND THE HOLY BIBLE SAYS THAT THE LORD GOD IS ONE.

> >> If you call the
> >> postings “junk”, then you are calling the Bible junk. Maybe you want
> >> to reword it.
> >
> >THAT JESUS WAS AND/OR IS MICHAEL IS JUNK.
> >THAT JESUS HAS BEEN RULING FROM HEAVEN SINCE 1914 IS JUNK.
> >THAT THERE ARE NO DEAD SPIRITS IS JUNK.
>
> In the Bible, angels are called spirits.

THEY ARE CALLED BY DIFFERENT NOUNS,
NOT JUST 'SPIRITS' - LIKE ANGELS, SPIRITS,
MINISTERS, MESSENGERS, MORE.

AND THE SOULS INCARNATE IN HUMAN BODIES
ARE ALSO CALLED 'SPIRITS'.

> Every angel that has been
> created, is still alive. Although they are dead spiritually,

ONLY THE FALLEN ANGELS ARE DEAD SPIRITUALLY.

> they
> literally are alive. But their time is short and soon they will be
> nonexistent along with the unrighteous humans.

NOT SO.

JESUS SAID THAT BEING LIKE AN ANGEL,
ONE COULD NOT DIE:

LUKE 20
For they cannot die again, because they are like angels.

SATAN AND THE OTHER FALLEN ANGELS
WILL EXIST AND SUFFER TORMENT ETERNALLY.

> >THAT THERE ARE A BUNCH OF DEMONIC ANGELS ON THE LOOSE IS JUNK.
>
> Is Scriptural. That is why the Bible says “woe for the earth”. (Rev
> 12:12b) Because the Devil and his demon angels have been tossed down
> to the vicinity of the earth.

IDIOT.

THAT IS THE SAME EVENT AS DESCRIBED IN GENESIS 6 ET CETERA.

THAT IS NOT FUTURE OR PRESENT, BUT ABOUT THE PAST.

ALL THOSE ANGELS, EXCEPT FOR LUCIFER, ARE KEPT IN CHAINS
OF DARKNESS RESERVED UNTO JUDGMENT DAY.

> >THAT ASTROLOGY TAROT CARDS ETC. ARE DEMONIC IS JUNK.
>
> I never addressed that topic yet, but I agree with you. All forms of
> spiritism are junk.

I STUDIED ALL THE RELIGIONS.

I KNOW WHAT JW TEACH.

YOU AGREE WITH ME THAT THE JW STATEMENT THAT
ASTROLOGY TAROT CARDS ETC. ARE DEMONIC IS JUNK?

THANK YOU.

BUT SPIRITISM IS INTEREST IN THE DISINCARNATE
SPIRITS - WHETHER ANGELS OR HUMAN SOULS.

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.

ASTROLOGY AND TAROT CARDS ETC. HAVE NOTHING TO DO
WITH SPIRITISM.

> >THAT SALVATION IS NOT EARNED IS JUNK.
>
> I don't recall stating such a thing.

YOU DID.

> Salvation is earned, as Jesus
> shows us at Mt 24:13,
>
> "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved." (NASB)
>
> Thus salvation is conditional upon a person remaining righteous to the
> end.

NOW YOU HAVE DISAGREED WITH EVERYONE AT THIS GROUP
EXCEPT FOR ME.

> >THAT THE EARTH SHALL EXIST FOREVER IS JUNK.
>
> Are you sure you have read the Bible? Ec 1:4,
>
> "Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever."
> (NIV)
>
> And Ps 104:5,
>
> "Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed
> for ever." (KJV)

ARE YOU SURE Y O U HAVE READ THE BIBLE?

JESUS:
HEAVEN AND EARTH SHALL PASS AWAY.

PETER:
THE EARTH AND EVERYTHING ON IT SHALL BE DECREATED BY FIRE.

JOHN:
AND FIRE CAME DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN...
AND THE EARTH AND THE HEAVENS FLED AWAY, AND
THERE WAS NO PLACE FOUND FOR THEM....
FOR THE FIRST HEAVEN AND THE FIRST EARTH
HAD PASSED AWAY, AND THE SEA WAS NOR MORE.

AS FAR AS YOUR OLD TESTAMENT QUOTES ABOVE,
THE WORD TRANSLATED "FOREVER" MEANT
FOR A LONG TIME, NOT FOR ETERNITY.

WHEN YOU STOOD IN LINE TOO LONG AND
SAID THAT IT TOOK FOREVER, DID YOU
MEAN YOU STOOD IN LINE FOR ALL
ETERNITY?

> >THAT PEOPLE NEED A RELIGION IS JUNK.
>
> God will judge those who do not follow the religion of the Bible for
> whatever their reasons.

THE BIBLE DOES NOT HAVE A RELIGION,
NOR DOES IT PREACH RELIGION.

IT PREACHES SPIRITUALITY:

Galatians 5:16
This I say then: Lead a spiritual life.
--
Romans 8:6
To be carnally minded is death; but to be
spiritually minded is life and peace.
--
1 Peter 2:5
As living stones, build up yourselves and become
spiritual temples and holy priests to offer up
spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God.
--
Colossians 1:7-10
Epaphras our beloved fellow servant...has made
known to us your love for spiritual things. For
this cause we...do not cease to pray for you and
to ask that you might be filled with the knowledge
of the will of God in all wisdom and in all spiritual
understanding, that you might live a righteous
life, please God with all good works, and bring
forth good fruits.
--
1 Corinthians 2:13-15
For the things we discuss are not dependent on
the knowledge of words and man's wisdom, but
on the teaching of the Spirit; thus explaining
spiritual things to the spiritually minded. For the
material man rejects spiritual things; they are
foolishness to him; neither can he know them,
because they are spiritually discerned. But the
spiritual man discerns every thing.

> >THAT PEOPLE SHOULD JOIN JW IS JUNK.
>
> It doesn't say that in the Bible.

OH YES IT DOES.

AS I HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIMES NOW,
JESUS RAILED AT THE RELIGIONISTS THE MOST.

READ THE FOUR GOSPELS!

JESUS WAS A SPIRITUAL BIBLICIST.
HE WAS NOT A RELIGIONIST.

> It does say that following the Bible
> is a “beneficial” thing. (2 Tim 3:16)

THAT SCRIPTURE SAYS THAT READING THE BIBLE
IS PROFITABLE FOR CORRECT EDUCATION.

MAKING THAT EDUCATION BENEFICIAL BY
LIVING BY IT IS ANOTHER MATTER ALTOGETHER.

BUT LIVING BY TRUTH IS ALWAYS THE BEST THING,
THOUGH SOMETIMES NOT BENEFICIAL.

> >> >> which is where I got all my ideas from.
> >> >> Esp Jesus at John 6:46.
> >> >
> >> >Liar.
> >> >
> >> >You got all your ideas from that JW
> >> >cult that you joined yourself to.
> >>
> >> You don't know me from Adam.
> >
> >YOU HAVE BEEN POSTING HERE FOR A LONG TIME.
> >
> >EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE SAID IS WHAT THE JW SAY.
>
> Of course, the true religion is one in thought. We don't have
> dissidents like the churches do. We are one in belief and unified,
> just as the true religion should be. 1 Co 1:10,

THE TRUE RELIGION.

THE TRUE RELIGION.

THE TRUE RELIGION.

A FAVORITE PHRASE OF YOURS'?

YOU SHOULD READ AND LIVE BY THE BIBLE.

THE BIBLE PREACHES SPIRITUALITY, NOT RELIGION.

> "I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that
> all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions
> among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought."
> (NIV)

SUCH IS ONLY POSSIBLE IF ALL TURN TO GOD FOR WISDOM
AND APPLY IT, THEN THEIR EDUCATION WILL BE THE SAME.

> >> Yes I get some things from JW's, but not
> >> all things. We are encouraged to do our own Bible researches. Doesn't
> >> your religion ask you the same?
> >
> >
> >MY RELIGION?
> >
> >I AM A BIBLICIST.
>
> bib·li·cist
> 'bibl?s?st/
> noun
> noun: Biblicist; plural noun: Biblicists; noun: biblicist; plural
> noun: biblicists
> 1. one who interprets the Bible literally.

I INTERPRET THE BIBLE LITERALLY AND SPIRITUALLY AND
METAPHYSICALLY - ALL THREE LEVELS - AS IS APPROPRIATE.

AND IN THE MEANTIME, I DO NOT CARE WHAT SOMEONE ELSE
SAYS THAT THE WORD BIBLICIST MEANS. MY DEFINITION IS
SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES IN THE HOLY BIBLE AND FORMS
THEIR BELIEFS BASED UPON IT.

> Based on that definition, JW's are not Biblicists since we do not take
> every word of the Bible literally.

HA HA HA ! ! !

THE JW TAKE HARDLY ANY OF SCRIPTURE LITERALLY ! ! !

THEY SYMBOLIZE AND PARABALIZE AWAY TONS OF
LITERAL SCRIPTURES ! ! !

> It depends upon context, original
> languages, similar Scriptures, etc.
>
> For example, when Jesus said he was a “door”, we know he meant that
> metaphorically. (see John 10:9)

KINDERGARTEN CRAP.

> >JESUS WAS A BIBLICIST.

> Not by the definition above.

CHUCK YOUR DEFINITION ABOVE.

> >JESUS AND I WORSHIP GOD AND GOD'S WORD.
> >
> >WE DO NOT WORSHIP MAN AND HIS MAN-MADE RELIGIONS.
>
> Neither do we. We go only by the Bible. No creeds, no church
> teachings, no unwritten traditions, etc.

S O U N D S G O O D -

TOO BAD NOT TRUE AT ALL.

> >JESUS RAILED-AT THE RELIGIONISTS THE MOST AND
> >SAID THAT THE TRUE WORSHIPERS WORSHIP GOD NOT
> >IN THE MOUNTAIN (AS THE SAMARITANS) NOR
> >IN THE TEMPLE (AS THE JEWS), BUT IN SPIRIT (HEART)
> >AND IN TRUTH (MIND).
> >
> >JESUS HAD A LIVING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LIVING GOD.
> >
> >I HAVE A LIVING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LIVING GOD.
> >
> >I NEED SOMETHING MORE THAN THAT?
> >
> >HA HA HA ! ! !

> What's so funny?

YOUR SUGGESTION THAT WHEN SOMEONE HAS GOD,
THEY ALSO NEED RELIGION ! ! !

THAT IS FUNNY ! ! !

> >WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE GOD,
> >THEN YOU NEED RELIGION.
>
> The apostle Paul showed that there was religion. People are to gather
> together to worship God.

THAT ONLY TAKES TWO PEOPLE.

> Paul even gives the qualifications for elders
> and servants, etc, in the congregations. (for ex see 1 Tim 3:1-10)

PAUL WAS PERFECT?

PAUL SAID A BUNCH OF WEIRD STUFF, PLUS HIS WRITING STYLE
IS QUITE TAXING.

BUT JESUS SAID TO CALL NO ONE LEADER (ELDER, ETC.).

AND JESUS NEVER TOLD HIS PEOPLE TO START A RELIGION OR
TO GIVE THEMSELVES A NAME OR TO BUILD BUILDINGS OR
TO WEAR CERTAIN CLOTHING OR ANYTHING AT ALL HAVING
TO DO WITH RELIGION.

READ THE FOUR GOSPELS, MAN ! ! !

[Debra Dee McQueen Freeman]

USENET CURRENTLY HAS A GLITCH.

HERE IS THE LEFT-OFF PORTION OF MY REPLY TO JAMES ABOVE:

*****************************************************************
B R O K E N P O S T H E R E
*****************************************************************

> > THAT THERE ARE A BUNCH OF DEMONIC ANGELS ON THE LOOSE IS JUNK.
>
> Is Scriptural. That is why the Bible says “woe for the earth”. (Rev
> 12:12b) Because the Devil and his demon angels have been tossed down
> to the vicinity of the earth.

IS NOT SCRIPTURAL.

IS NOT SAID ANYWHERE IN SCRIPTURE.

AS FOR REVELATION 12, THAT IS NOT FUTURE TENSE NOR
PRESENT TENSE, BUT HAPPENED IN THE DISTANT PAST
DURING TIME OF NOAH, AND THEN GOD LOCKED UP ALL
THOSE FALLEN ANGELS IN CHAINS OF DARKNESS UNTO
JUDGEMENT DAY EXCEPT FOR LUCIFER.

THAT IS WHY YOU NEVER SEE THE FALLEN ANGELS MENTIONED
AGAIN AFTER REVELATION 12:9 A N D YOU DO SEE JUST
SATAN REPEATEDLY MENTIONED AND AS TO WHAT HE PLOTS
OR DOES.

ALSO, THAT "WOE TO THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH",
UNLIKE YOUR LIE THAT IT REFERS TO BOTH SATAN AND
THE OTHER FALLEN ANGELS, SOLELY REFERS TO SATAN:

REVELATION 12
Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, and of the sea!
for the Devil has come down to you; and his wrath is
great, because he knows that his time is short. And
when the dragon saw that he was cast down to the earth,
he pursued the woman who had given birth to a son. And
to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that
she might fly from the presence of the serpent to the wilderness,
into her place, where she would be nourished for years, and months,
and days. Then the serpent sent a flood of water out of his mouth
after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away by
the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened
its mouth, and swallowed up the water which the dragon had gushed
out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged at the woman, and
he went to make war with the remnant of her seed, who keep the
commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus.

> > THAT ASTROLOGY TAROT CARDS ETC. ARE DEMONIC IS JUNK.
>
> I never addressed that topic yet, but I agree with you. All forms of
> spiritism are junk.

YOU AGREE WITH ME THAT THE JW STATEMENT THAT
ASTROLOGY TAROT CARDS ETC. ARE DEMONIC IS JUNK?

THANK YOU.

AND BTW:

SPIRITISM IS INTEREST IN SPIRITS -
WHETHER THE DISINCARNATE SPIRITS OF DEAD HUMANS
OR THE SPIRITS OF ANGELS.

SPIRITISM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ASTROLOGY OR TAROT CARDS ETC.

> > THAT SALVATION IS NOT EARNED IS JUNK.
>

> I don't recall stating such a thing. Salvation is earned, as Jesus

> shows us at Mt 24:13,
>
> "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved." (NASB)
>
> Thus salvation is conditional upon a person remaining righteous to the
> end.

YOU HERE DISAGREE WITH EVERY PERSON AT THIS GROUP

EXCEPT FOR ME.



> > THAT THE EARTH SHALL EXIST FOREVER IS JUNK.
>
> Are you sure you have read the Bible? Ec 1:4,
>
> "Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever."
> (NIV)
>
> And Ps 104:5,
>
> "Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed
> for ever." (KJV)

ARE YOU SURE Y O U HAVE READ THE BIBLE:

JESUS:
HEAVEN AND EARTH SHALL PASS AWAY.

PETER:

EARTH AND EVERYTHING ON EARTH SHALL BE DECREATED BY FIRE.

JOHN:
AND GOD RAINED FIRE DOWN ONTO THE EARTH....
AND THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH FLED AWAY,

AND THERE WAS NO PLACE FOUND FOR THEM....

AND THE FIRST EARTH AND THE FIRST HEAVEN
HAD PASSED AWAY AND THERE WAS NO MORE SEA.


THE ORIGINAL WORD TRANSLATED TO "FOREVER" IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
PASSAGES YOU QUOTE ABOVE MEANT "A LONG TIME" RATHER THAN
"ETERNITY".

WHEN YOU STOOD IN LINE TOO LONG,
AND THEN SAID THAT YOU STOOD IN LINE FOREVER,
DID YOU MEAN FOR ETERNITY? NO.

> > THAT PEOPLE NEED A RELIGION IS JUNK.
>
> God will judge those who do not follow the religion of the Bible for
> whatever their reasons.

THERE IS NO "RELIGION OF THE BIBLE".

THE BIBLE DOES NOT PREACH RELIGION.

THE BIBLE PREACHES SPIRITUALITY:

MOST BIBLE TRANSLATIONS DO NOT EVEN CONTAIN THE WORD
"RELIGION". AND THE ONE OR TWO THAT DO, CONTAIN THE WORD
EITHER ONCE OR AT MOST TWICE. AND THEY DO NOT SAY TO HAVE
A RELIGION OR TO BELONG TO A RELIGION.

AND DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT JESUS SAID THAT THE TRUE WORSHIPERS
WOULD NOT WORSHIP IN THE MOUNTAINS (AS THE SAMARITANS)

NOR IN THE TEMPLE (AS THE JEWS), BUT IN SPIRIT (HEART) AND

IN TRUTH (MIND)?

RELIGION IS NOT NEEDED TO WORSHIP GOD,
AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE USE
RELIGION AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR GOD.

> >THAT PEOPLE SHOULD JOIN JW IS JUNK.
>

> It doesn't say that in the Bible. It does say that following the Bible

> is a “beneficial” thing. (2 Tim 3:16)

2 TIMOTHY 3:16 DOES NOT SAY THAT.

2 TIMOTHY 3:16 SAYS THAT READING THE BIBLE IS EDUCATIONAL.

APPLYING THE EDUCATION GAINED IS SOMETHING ELSE ALTOGETHER.

AND APPLYING TRUTH IS ALWAYS THE BEST THING ULTIMATELY,
BUT NOT ALWAYS A BENEFICIAL THING PRESENTLY.

> > > > > which is where I got all my ideas from.
> > > > > Esp Jesus at John 6:46.
> > > >
> > > > Liar.
> > > >
> > > > You got all your ideas from that JW
> > > > cult that you joined yourself to.
> > >
> > > You don't know me from Adam.
> >
> > YOU HAVE BEEN POSTING HERE FOR A LONG TIME.
> >
> > EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE SAID IS WHAT THE JW SAY.
>
> Of course, the true religion is one in thought. We don't have
> dissidents like the churches do. We are one in belief and unified,
> just as the true religion should be. 1 Co 1:10,


THE TRUE RELIGION.

THE TRUE RELIGION.

THE TRUE RELIGION.

IS THIS ONE OF YOUR FAVORITE PHRASES?

THERE IS NO TRUE RELIGION.

ALL RELIGIONS TEACH UNBIBLICAL DOCTRINES
AND ENGAGE IN UNBIBLICAL PRACTICES, ETC.

> "I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that
> all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions
> among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought."
> (NIV)

THIS CAN ONLY HAPPEN IF EACH PERSON IS TAUGHT BY GOD AND
APPLIES WHAT GOD HAS TAUGHT THEM.

> > > Yes I get some things from JW's, but not
> > > all things. We are encouraged to do our own Bible researches. Doesn't
> > > your religion ask you the same?
> >
> >
> > MY RELIGION?
> >
> > I AM A BIBLICIST.
>
> bib·li·cist
> 'bibl?s?st/
> noun
> noun: Biblicist; plural noun: Biblicists; noun: biblicist; plural
> noun: biblicists
> 1. one who interprets the Bible literally.

I INTERPRET THE HOLY BIBLE LITERALLY AND SPIRITUALLY AND
METAPHYSICALLY - ON ALL THREE LEVELS - AS IS APPROPRIATE.

I COULD CARE LESS WHAT SOMEONE ELSE SAYS BIBLICIST MEANS.

MY DEFINITION OF BIBLICIST IS SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES IN THE BIBLE
AND FORMS THEIR BELIEFS BASED UPON SAME. THAT IS WHAT JESUS DID,
AND THAT IS WHAT I HAVE DONE AND DO.

> Based on that definition, JW's are not Biblicists since we do not take

> every word of the Bible literally. It depends upon context, original
> languages, similar Scriptures, etc.

HA HA HA ! ! !

THE JW TAKE VERY LITTLE OF THE BIBLE LITERALLY ! ! !

THEY SYMBOLIZE AND PARABALIZE AWAY TONS OF SCRIPTURES ! ! !

THEY ARE THE MOST NON-LITERAL GROUP THAT THERE IS ! ! !

> For example, when Jesus said he was a “door”, we know he meant that
> metaphorically. (see John 10:9)

DUH.

KINDERGARTEN CRAP.



> > JESUS WAS A BIBLICIST.
>
> Not by the definition above.

CHUCK THAT DEFINITION YOU POSTED ABOVE.

> > JESUS AND I WORSHIP GOD AND GOD'S WORD.
> >
> > WE DO NOT WORSHIP MAN AND HIS MAN-MADE RELIGIONS.
>
> Neither do we. We go only by the Bible. No creeds, no church
> teachings, no unwritten traditions, etc.

S O U N D S G O O D .

NOT TRUE AT ALL.



> > JESUS RAILED-AT THE RELIGIONISTS THE MOST AND
> > SAID THAT THE TRUE WORSHIPERS WORSHIP GOD NOT
> > IN THE MOUNTAIN (AS THE SAMARITANS) NOR
> > IN THE TEMPLE (AS THE JEWS), BUT IN SPIRIT (HEART)
> > AND IN TRUTH (MIND).
> >
> > JESUS HAD A LIVING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LIVING GOD.
> >
> > I HAVE A LIVING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LIVING GOD.
> >
> > I NEED SOMETHING MORE THAN THAT?
> >
> > HA HA HA ! ! !
> >
> What's so funny?

YOUR SUGGESTION THAT SOMEONE WHO HAS GOD ALSO
NEEDS RELIGION. HA HA HA ! ! !

> >WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE GOD,
> >THEN YOU NEED RELIGION.
>
> The apostle Paul showed that there was religion. People are to gather
> together to worship God.

1. PAUL WAS NOT PERFECT; HE SAID SO HIMSELF.
HIS SUPPOSED WORDS ARE TO BE TAKEN WITH A GRAIN OF SALT,
AND DISMISSED IF DIFFERING FROM THE WORDS OF JESUS AND/OR
THE MAJORITY OF SCRIPTURE.

2. GATHERING TOGETHER ONLY TAKES TWO PEOPLE A N D
CAN TAKE PLACE ANYWHERE.

YOU DO NOT NEED RELIGION TO GATHER TOGETHER.

> Paul even gives the qualifications for elders
> and servants, etc, in the congregations. (for ex see 1 Tim 3:1-10)

JESUS SAID TO CALL NO MAN LEADER (ELDER, ETC.).

JESUS NEVER TOLD HIS FOLLOWERS TO CREATE A RELIGION,
OR TO NAME THEMSELVES, OR TO BUILD BUILDINGS, OR
TO WEAR CERTAIN CLOTHING, OR ANY OF THE OTHER
THINGS ASSOCIATED WITH RELIGION.

JESUS' ONLY MESSAGE WAS TO SEEK AND SERVE GOD'S WILL
BECAUSE THE REMOVAL FROM THE EARTH OF THOSE WHO HAVE
NEGLECTED TO DO SO WAS AT THAT TIME NOT TOO FAR HENCE
(AND IS NOW EVEN CLOSER - I SAY BEFORE OR DURING YEAR
2038 AT THE LATEST).

[Madhu]

* "J. Abrams" <3ce662f1-458c-401a...@googlegroups.com> :
Wrote on Fri, 10 Jun 2016 15:32:19 -0700 (PDT):

|> (John 12:31) Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the
|> prince of this world be cast out.
|
| The prince (Satan) of the king of Persia withstood the angel.
|
| Daniel 10:13: But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one
| and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to
| help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
|
| Then Michael, who is only one of the chief princes, came to help him.

The septuagint (Brenton) has this variation of the words:

(Daniel 10:13) But the prince of the kingdom of the Persians
withstood me twenty-one days: and behold, Michael, one of the
princes, came to help me; and I left him there with the chief of
the kingdom of the Persians: (LXX)

Anyway, I don't have an opinion against the speculation, that this
prince of persia was indeed satan: the kindgom of persia would indeed
get it's power from satan (as the beast does in Rev. 13:4). I think the
only thing to consider here is if Isaiah's Cyrus prophesies are involved
because Isaiah states God is anointing Cyrus

BTW I was just reading a blog where the author identifies the
(spiritual) beast of revelation with erstwhile medo-persia: this beast
on which "babylon rides", will then turn on and destroy babylon mid
tribulation.

Now, I do have a problem with James deriving doctrine (like the famous
Luke "today, I tell you" ...) from the position of a comma in the
english text:

(1Thess. 4:13) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven

with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the
trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (KJV)

[also btw that author, who expects pre-tribulation-rapture also expects
Jesus to come at mid-tribulation to "collect the redeemed" (Rev. 14),
but is not sure if anyone will see him them at this time, and they will
see him at the end of the tribulation of course.]

(Matthew 24:29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days
shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her
light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of
the heavens shall be shaken:

(Matthew 24:30-31) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of
man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven
with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a
great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

however the timeline in these verses would seem to indicate the end of
the tribulation, after israel's repentence in Zechariah 12.

[Debra Dee McQueen Freeman]

On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 6:32:20 PM UTC-4, J. Abrams wrote:

> On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 12:59:26 AM UTC-3, Madhu wrote:
>

> > On on Wed, 08 Jun 2016 19:15:27 -0400, James wrote:
> >
> > |>And today, the prince of the world is still the same prince of the
> > |>world, 2000 years ago, or do you not believe that.
> > |
> > | Actually, he is the chief or great prince.
> >
> > this also missed my point: in this particular sentence, i meant this
> > prince of the world:
> >
> > (John 12:31) Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the
> > prince of this world be cast out.
>
> The prince (Satan) of the king of Persia withstood the angel.
>
> Daniel 10:13: But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and
> twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and
> I remained there with the kings of Persia.
>
> Then Michael, who is only one of the chief princes, came to help him.

George M. Lamsa translation concurs:

Daniel 10
The ruler of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days;
but lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me;
and I remained there against the wishes of the ruler of Persia.


It is just like the Essenes were structured.

There were various groups, with one or more leaders over each of the groups.

So it is with the Angelic Kingdom.

The only one leader over all the Angels is God Himself.

Archangel Michael aka Great Angel Michael aka Chief Angel Michael
aka Chief Prince Michael is just one of the such Angels.

And The Holy Bible specifically tells us that it is this Michael who
oversees Daniels people - i.e. the Jews.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael arise, the great angel who has

charge over your people...

[J. Abrams]

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 3:28:14 PM UTC-3, Madhu wrote:
> * "J. Abrams" <3ce662f1-458c-401a...@googlegroups.com> :
> Wrote on Fri, 10 Jun 2016 15:32:19 -0700 (PDT):
>
> |> (John 12:31) Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the
> |> prince of this world be cast out.
> |
> | The prince (Satan) of the king of Persia withstood the angel.
> |
> | Daniel 10:13: But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one
> | and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to
> | help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
> |
> | Then Michael, who is only one of the chief princes, came to help him.
>
> The septuagint (Brenton) has this variation of the words:
>
> (Daniel 10:13) But the prince of the kingdom of the Persians
> withstood me twenty-one days: and behold, Michael, one of the
> princes, came to help me; and I left him there with the chief of
> the kingdom of the Persians: (LXX)

This would mean that Michael had to stay and fight against this prince, rather than simply defeat him and leave. Which only strengthens the idea that this prince was Satan.

>
> Anyway, I don't have an opinion against the speculation, that this
> prince of persia was indeed satan: the kindgom of persia would indeed
> get it's power from satan (as the beast does in Rev. 13:4). I think the
> only thing to consider here is if Isaiah's Cyrus prophesies are involved
> because Isaiah states God is anointing Cyrus

Once good always good and once bad always bad?

Was Judas always evil?

Will God have the ten kings give their power to the Beast?

And will HE gather all nations against Jerusalem?

>
> BTW I was just reading a blog where the author identifies the
> (spiritual) beast of revelation with erstwhile medo-persia: this beast
> on which "babylon rides", will then turn on and destroy babylon mid
> tribulation.

Based on Jeremiah I believe that the ten kings will first attack the Beast and then they will decide to join him - and attack Jerusalem. Maybe he calls 'fire from the sky' and they decide that Allah is with him so they join forces for 'one hour'.

>
> Now, I do have a problem with James deriving doctrine (like the famous
> Luke "today, I tell you" ...) from the position of a comma in the
> english text:
>
> (1Thess. 4:13) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven
> with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the
> trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (KJV)

How can the dead rise if they are already risen and in Heaven?

>
> [also btw that author, who expects pre-tribulation-rapture also expects
> Jesus to come at mid-tribulation to "collect the redeemed" (Rev. 14),
> but is not sure if anyone will see him them at this time, and they will
> see him at the end of the tribulation of course.]
>
> (Matthew 24:29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days
> shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her
> light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of
> the heavens shall be shaken:
>
> (Matthew 24:30-31) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of
> man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
> and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven
> with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a
> great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his
> elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
>
> however the timeline in these verses would seem to indicate the end of
> the tribulation, after israel's repentence in Zechariah 12.

I'll give it to you in a nutshell...


We have the Tribulation.

The Tribulation ends.

The Sun turns black.

The Day of the Lord begins.


Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days....

AFTER

...shall the sun be darkened...

The Tribulation is over.

The Sun IS dark.

The Sun will turn to darkness BEFORE the great and terrible Day of the Lord.

The Sun IS dark.

The Day of the Lord has NOT started yet.

The Day of the Lord begins....after the Tribulation ends and the after the Sun goes dark...then the Day of the Lord begins.

You cannot have a PRE-tribulation Rapture after the Tribulation has already ended.

The Sun goes dark...THEN...Jesus returns..

Matthew 24:29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days
shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her
light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of
the heavens shall be shaken:

(Matthew 24:30-31) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of
man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven
with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a
great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Also, Thessalonians...the Day of the Lord and Jesus' return...ON...the Day of the Lord...which will not happen until AFTER the Sun is dark...which will not happen until AFTER the Tribulation ENDS.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1453878971/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=

[Debra Dee McQueen Freeman]

Jesus does not just return -
he returns to Mount Olives
whence he last left it,
exactly as promised and
prophesied by the two
angels in Acts 1.

So does Jesus return to
Mount Olives whence he
last left it before The
Tribulation, or after The
Tribulation? AFTER,
of course!

And then what does he do?

He removes all of the wicked off
of the earth who had not already
been removed from it by some
other means.

Does he do THAT before The
Tribulation, or after The
Tribulation? AFTER,
of course!

Because certain people have not
coordinated the various Bible passages
regarding Jesus' return, they have
made the error of thinking that
there shall be two returns -
an initial one in secret in
the air, before The
Tribulation, and
then a later visible
one after The
Tribulation.

Yet the passage about meeting Jesus in the air
is referring to when he begins and then continues

his descent back to Mount Olives whence he last

left it, and once he is in the air above the clouds
above Mount Olives, he meets and greets the
raptured resurrected righteous who have been
gathered there to meet and greet and join him
as he finishes his descent. It is this entire group
that later on at the right time break through
the clouds above Mount Olives and alight to
it and its region. There are not two returns of
Jesus, there is only one, and that after the
end of The Great Tribulation (when The
King Of The East China sends a military
200 million strong over to the large plain
Megiddo / Har Megiddo / Armageddon and
then down into the deep valley Kidron /
Jehoshaphat / Jehovah's Judgment and
then over into East Jerusalem to battle
against the military of The King Of The North
European Union which had already been
stationed there for 3 1/2 years -
these two militaries constituting
the nations being gathered together
against Jerusalem as an enemy footstool
for Jesus' returning feet.

Note also that Jesus already came once,
and that his return is referred to as his
second coming. There is never any
mention of any third coming,
nor is his return ever
mentioned in the
plural.

Hebrews 9
Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;
so that at his second coming, he shall appear without
our sins for the salvation of those who look for him.

[James]

Debra Dee McQueen Freeman <dfre...@live.com>

That remains to be seen.

>
>> >> By the way, there is no JW literature which says the end was
>> >> definitely going to come in 1914.
>> >
>> >YES THERE HAS BEEN.
>> >
>> >THESE ARE QUOTED IN THE LINK THAT I GAVE.
>>
>> I didn't see any. Try quoting them again. Maybe I missed something.
>> Remember we are talking about the end of the world.
>
>WHAT A LIAR YOU ARE.
>
>THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE ARTICLE SAYS:
>
>One of the most misleading statements in Watchtower publications is
>that they accurately foretold 1914 to be the “start” of the conclusion of
>this system of things. Rather, 1914 was predicted to be the “end” of the
>system of things, the conclusion of Armageddon, and the start of the earthly paradise.

Please show me the JW literature that says that. I can probably
verify.

From what I understand, JW's knew that 1914 was a marked year for
changes. But I think overzealous JW's at that time thought it was the
“end” that would come. They had some stuff right, but not all of it. I
tried to find some quotes from 1800 Watchtowers. Notice:

"It is a historical fact worth noting that, on the basis of the points
and evidence above presented, the March 1880 edition of the Watch
Tower magazine identified the year 1914 as the time for the close of
“the appointed times of the nations” (and the end of the lease of
power granted the Gentile rulers). This was some 34 years before the
arrival of that year and the momentous events it initiated. In the
August 30, 1914, edition of The World, a leading New York newspaper at
that time, a feature article in the paper’s Sunday magazine section
commented on this as follows: “The terrific war outbreak in Europe has
fulfilled an extraordinary prophecy. For a quarter of a century past,
through preachers and through press, the ‘International Bible
Students’ . . . have been proclaiming to the world that the Day of
Wrath prophesied in the Bible would dawn in 1914.”" (Insight, Vol 1,
p.135) Also:

>
>DOES NOT SAY "THE END OF THE WORLD".

The literature said the end of the gentile times. MANY NON JW'S, AND
SOME JW'S, MISTOOK THAT STATEMENT TO MEAN THE END OF THE WORLD. That
is what many JW hate groups throw at me all the time.

>
>AND FURTHERMORE, YEAR 1914 WAS NEITHER THE START OF THE
>END OF THE SYSTEM OF THINGS, NOR THE END OF THE SYSTEM
>OF THINGS.
>

It was the beginning of the end times. Jesus has to rule among his
enemies for a while. That started in 1914.

>THE START OF THE END OF THE SYSTEM OF THINGS, OR THE START
>OF THE END TIMES, WAS WHEN JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED.

The Bible speaks of more than one 'end time'. The first one happened
back in the 1st century with the destruction of Jerusalem. The 2nd one
will be in our day. (assuming we haven't died by then)

>
>AND THE END OF THE SYSTEM OF THINGS, OR THE END OF THE END TIMES
>AND THE START OF THE MILLENNIUM OF ONLY THE RIGHTEOUS ON EARTH,
>SHALL BE ONCE JESUS AND THE RAPTURED RESURRECTED RIGHTEOUS
>ALIGHT FROM THE AIR ABOVE THE CLOUDS ABOVE MOUNT OLIVES IN THE
>EVENING ON THE DAY THAT GOD SIGNALS TO JESUS TO BEGIN HIS DESCENT BACK TO MOUNT OLIVES WHENCE HE LAST LEFT IT AND AS PROPHESIED TO OCCUR IN THE FUTURE BY THE TWO ANGELS IN ACTS CHAPTER 1 [ACTS 1:
>As you have seen him go, so you shall see him come.] AND THEY KILL ALL
>OF THE WICKED ON EARTH WHO HAVE NOT ALREADY BEEN KILLED BY
>SEVERAL OTHER MEANS.

What a tangled mess. It would probably take many pages to straighten
that whole thing out. For now, I will just stick with the so-called
“rapture.”
As you are probably alluding to, the 'rapture' is not a Bible
teaching. It is a teaching of men, misapplying the Bible scripture of
1 Th 4:17. Even the word "rapture" is not in the Bible, which would
certainly help its case.

This dictionary defines "rapture" as:

"Theology (in some millenarian teaching) the transporting of believers
to heaven at the second coming of Christ." (Webster's Dictionary)

First of all, the Bible tells us that humans (flesh and blood) cannot
get into Heaven. (1 Co 15:50) Thus any 'rapturing' going on would
likely be invisible to human eyes, since they would have to shed their
physical bodies in order to get into Heaven. And that is what they do
in vs 51,52.

But even if the 'rapture' was real, will ALL the righteous humans be
'raptured' away to Heaven? No not at all. God's word the Bible says
that there will also be righteous people living forever right here on
the earth, as the following scriptures reveal. Mt 5:5,

"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth." (NIV)

God created this beautiful earth to have people on it. Thus not ALL
good people will leave the earth and go to Heaven. Isa 45:18,

"For this is what the LORD says-- he who created the heavens, he is
God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not
create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited--..." (NIV)

Ps 37:29,

"The upright will have the earth for their heritage, and will go on
living there for ever." (The Bible in Basic English)

>
>
>> >> If Jesus didn't know, how would
>> >> they? Mt 24:36,
>> >>
>> >> "But of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven,
>> >> nor the Son, but the Father alone." (NAB)
>> >>
>> >> Also quoting 1800's JW literature, you will find a lot of mistakes,
>> >> such as believing in a pyramid. But the true religion will do it that
>> >> way. Pr 4:18,
>> >>
>> >> "The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining
>> >> ever brighter till the full light of day." (NIV)
>> >>
>> >> We are almost at the “full light of day”.
>> >
>> >DULL MAN.
>> >
>> >THAT PASSAGE IS ABOUT INCREASING VIRTUE,
>> >NOT ABOUT INCREASING KNOWLEDGE.
>>
>> One increases their knowledge if they increase their virtue.
>
>IDIOT.

Did you know you are fulfilling Scripture here by your name calling?
(2 Tim 3:12; John 15:18-21)

>
>ANYONE CAN INCREASE THEIR KNOWLEDGE BY EITHER
>ENGAGING IN RESEARCH OR ELSE LEARNING THE ACCURATE
>RESULTS OF ALREADY PERFORMED RESEARCH.
>
>VIRTUE IS THE A P P L I C A T I O N OF ONE'S KNOWLEDGE,
>AND TO DO SO LEADS TO UNDERSTANDING AND WISDOM.

Negatrons. Wisdom is the application of knowledge. Virtue is from
people with high moral standings.

>
>THE MORE KNOWLEDGE YOU APPLY,
>THE MORE UNDERSTANDING AND
>WISDOM YOU WILL HAVE.

Yes, wisdom is using your knowledge to one's advantage.

>
>> And they
>> get that virtue from the Bible. (2 Ti 3:16)
>
>LIAR.

2 Tim 3:12.

>
>ONE DOES NOT "GET VIRTUE" FROM READING THE BIBLE.

We are in a semantics go-a- round. We most certainly can get virtue
from reading the Bible, and of course following what it says.

>
>ONE BECOMES VIRTUOUS BY APPLYING THE KNOWLEDGE
>GAINED FROM READING THE BIBLE.
>
>THAT IS WHY 2 TIMOTHY 3:16 SAYS M A Y
>BECOME PERFECT:
>
>2 TIMOTHY 3:16
>All scripture written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is
>profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and
>for instruction in righteousness, so that God's people MAY
>become perfect, thoroughly perfected for every good work.



>
>> You must see the true
>> religion fulfilling Pr 4:18 over the years, etc.
>
>[QUIT BEING LAZY: IF YOU CITE SCRIPTURE,
>QUOTE IT TOO. THAT IS THE ONLY THING
>APPROPRIATE FOR THIS FORUM. YOU
>CANNOT EXPECT READERS TO KNOW
>THE ENTIRE BIBLE BY HEART, NOR
>TO GET OUT A BIBLE AND LOOK
>UP YOUR NON-QUOTED CITE.]

I have already written what I have written.

>
>
>THE TRUE RELIGION?
>
>THERE IS NO TRUE RELIGION.

Yes there is. The Bible calls it the “one faith”. Not many faiths all
leading to God, but only ONE. Eph 4:5,

“ One Lord, one faith, one baptism,” (KJV)

>
>PROVERBS 4:18
>But the path of the righteous is like the shining light that
>shines more and more, unto the perfect day.
>
>A RIGHTEOUS PERSON -
>SOMEONE WHO IS APPLYING THEIR KNOWLEDGE -
>WILL GAIN MORE AND MORE UNDERSTANDING AND
>WISDOM AS THEIR DAYS GO BY AND ALL THE WAY
>UP UNTIL THE DAY OF THE RETURN OF JESUS.

Of course they will gain wisdom the longer they keep reading and
applying the Bible.

They also will get more accurate in their religion. Old Bible
doctrines will be replaced by newer more accurate ones. God prefers
accuracy to insufficient knowledge.

If a person is studying false religious doctrines (such as the 4th
century post-Biblical doctrine by men: the Trinity doctrine, any
application of that knowledge will not produce wisdom, but rather
chaos and Bible contradictions.

>
>
>> >> I will look at your link to see if they are lying. AND THEY ARE.
>> >> Nowhere does it say that the end of the world will come on 1914. They
>> >> are misinterpreting the JW's literature, and assuming that is what
>> >> they meant. BUT AS USUAL, they got it messed up.
>> >>
>> >> What did end then, was the foretold times of the gentiles.
>> >
>> >THE TIME OF THE GENTILES HAS NOT EVEN STARTED.
>> >IT STARTS TIME/TIMES/HALF - 3 1/2 YEARS - 42 MONTHS -
>> >1,260 DAYS PRECEDING THE RETURN OF JESUS TO MOUNT OLIVES
>> >WHENCE HE LAST LEFT IT, WHEN THE KING OF THE NORTH
>> >(EUROPEAN UNION) INFILTRATES AND TAKES OVER ISRAEL:
>> >
>> >REVELATION 11
>> >AND there was given to me a reed like unto a rod:
>> >and the angel stood, saying, Arise and anoint the
>> >temple of God, and the altar, and those who worship therein.
>> >But leave out the outer court of the temple, and do not anoint it;
>> >for it has been given to the Gentiles; and they shall tread the
>> >holy city under foot for forty and two months.
>> >
>> >THOSE JW'S SURE DO TURN OUT A BUNCH OF JUNK.

Millions of people don't think so. But you are welcome to your
opinion.

>>
>> I don't even know where to start to make the necessary corrections.
>> Just ask if you want to see the proof that 1914 was the end of the
>> gentiles domination.
>
>THE ONLY PROOF I NEED IS WHAT THE HOLY BIBLE SAYS.
>
>AS I ALREADY SHOWED, IT DIRECTLY AND PLAINLY SAYS
>THAT THE TIME OF THE GENTILES SHALL BE FOR
>42 MONTHS PRECEDING THE RETURN OF JESUS.
>
>YOU REALLY SHOULD BELIEVE THE HOLY BIBLE,
>RATHER THAN THOSE JW PARROTS.

Sticks and stones......


Generalized summary of how JW's get to 1914 as the end of the
Gentiles, and a significant year:

607 BC Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon conquered Jerusalem. (proof of that
date is below)

Cyrus conquers Babylon 539 BC

The Jews were to be held captive for 70 years, (Jer 25:12; Dan 9:2)
then released.
Thus 607-70 years= 537 BC the time of the release of the Jews from
Babylon to go and rebuild their temple.
To find the Bible's date of Jerusalem's destruction, take 537 (when
the Jews were released) and go back 70 years
to find the date Jerusalem was destroyed. Thus 537 + 70 years= 607
B.C.

The times of the Gentiles was to be 7 times from 607. Then their
ruling would end. But how long is a "time"?
Rev 12:6,14 says that 3 1/2 times equaled 1260 days. Or 7 times is
double that= 2520 days. (this is where the Bible counts a prophetic
year as 360 days)

But Jesus said the times of the Gentiles was still going on in his
day. (Luke 21:24) Thus it has to be longer than 2520 literal days. The
clue is at Num 14:34 & Eze 4:6, "a day for a year". So 2520 days
becomes 2520 years. Thus from the date 607 BC + 2520 yrs = 1914 AD.
Here is how that is determined:

607 BC to 1 BC= 606 yrs.
2520 -606= what is left; 1914 AD

The math works out perfectly.

1914 ended the times of the gentiles (Luke 21:24) and the start of
God's kingdom.

>
>> You also are apparently waiting for a physical return of Jesus to the
>> Mount of Olives.
>
>THAT IS WHAT WAS PROPHESIED BY THE TWO ANGELS QUOTED IN
>ACTS CHAPTER 1, AND THAT IS WHAT IS DEPICTED IN NUMEROUS
>HOLY BIBLE PASSAGES, SUCH AS ZECHARIAH 14: And his feet shall
>stand upon the mount of Olives, which is opposite Jerusalem on the east,
>and the mount of Olives shall split in two, half toward the east and
>the other half toward the west, and there shall be in it a great valley;
>and half of the mountain shall be left toward the north, and half of it
>toward the south. I WILL BELIEVE THE HOLY BIBLE, RATHER THAN
>EVIL JW PARROTS SUCH AS YOURSELF.

You are certainly helping to fulfill Scripture. 2 Tim 3:12,

“Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer
persecution.”

>
>> That won't happen,
>
>EVIL LIAR.

2 Tim 3:12

>
>> since Jesus no longer has a
>> physical body.
>
>EVIL LIAR:
>
>LUKE 24
>[Resurrected] Jesus said to them,
>Why do you tremble? and why do thoughts
>arise in your hearts? Look at my hands and
>my feet, that it is I; feel me and understand;
>for a spirit has no flesh and bones, as you see I have.

Jesus materialized a body at that time, just like angels in Noah's day
did, although they did not have God's approval, whereas Jesus did. If
Jesus went back to his resurrected spirit body, he would have been
invisible.

You forgot vs 14,

“She glanced over her shoulder and saw someone standing behind her. It
was Jesus, but she didn't recognize him!”

Why didn't she recognize him if he was raised with the same body he
died with? BECAUSE JESUS MATERIALIZED A DIFFERT BODY.

The Bible said he died as flesh and blood, but was raised a
“spirit”being.
1 Peter 3:18,

“
"For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust,
in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in
the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;" (NASB)

If he was raised with the same body, that would have NULLIFIED THE
RANSOM SACRIFICE, for it was his perfect physical body that Jesus
sacrificed for us. He couldn't take it back. And that is why nobody at
first recognized him until he would speak, etc.

>
>> Jesus said the world will not literally see him ever
>> again, so he can't come back with a physical body, esp the one he gave
>> up for the ransom. (see John 14:19)
>
>LIAR:

2 Tim 3:12

>
>JOHN 14:19
>[Pre-crucified Jesus]
>And the world will not see me,

Yes, those on the earth will never see Jesus. Only those who go to
Heaven, like his apostles, will see him as he is, in a spirit body.

>BUT Y O U W I L L S E E M E .

Yes, his apostles were Heaven bound. They would also see God;
something that no human imperfect human had ever seen.

>
>AT ONE POINT, THERE WERE 500 GATHERED TOGETHER THAT
>SAW HIM AFTER HE WAS CRUCIFIED BY MAN AND THEN
>RESURRECTED BY GOD, IN ADDITION TO HIS 12 APOSTLES.
>
>> >> That meant
>> >> that Jesus was in Heaven and took over kingdom power.
>> >
>> >UNBIBLICAL MALARKY.
>>
>> Your opinion is noted.
>
>"TOOK OVER KINGDOM POWER"?
>
>WHICH KINGDOM?

Jesus kingdom comes from Heaven. He will rule the earth from Heaven.
As we saw earlier, those on the earth will never see him with their
literal eyes again. But they will see him with their spiritual eyes.
(Rev 1:7)

>
>HEAVEN?
>
>EARTH?
>
>NOT HEAVEN. HE IS SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD -
>HE IS GOD'S RIGHT HAND MAN. HE IS NOT GOD. AND GOD
>HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND SHALL ALWAYS BE THE TOP DOG:

There is just something wrong by comparing God to a dog, even though
God spelled backwords is “dog”

Congratulations, you found something we agree with: Jesus is not God.

>
>1 CORINTHIANS 15
>But when God said all things are put under Jesus,
>it is clear that God, who put all things under Jesus,
>is excepted. And when all things shall be subdued
>unto God, then shall the Son also himself be subject
>unto God who put all things under Jesus, so that
>God may be all in all.
>
>NOT ON EARTH. THE EARTH IS A SHAMBLES
>CURRENTLY RULED BY SATAN:

That's two in a row. That's a new record.

Jesus CAN'T come back to the earth in his physical body. Jesus plainly
said: John 14:19,

"A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will
see Me. Because I live, you will live also. “

“THE WORLD WILL SEE ME NO MORE”

That is because he was raised in a spirit body, which in its natural
state is invisible to the literal eyes of humans.

>
>
>
>> >> To fulfill
>> >> Scripture Jesus has to reign with his enemies still around. Ps
>> >> 110:1,2,
>> >>
>> >> "1 Psalm 110 Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my
>> >> right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." 2 The
>> >> LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion; you will rule in the
>> >> midst of your enemies." (NIV)
>> >
>> >RULE YES - WITH A ROD OF IRON: THAT MEANS K I L L THEM,
>> >IDIOT. AND THAT IS WHAT JESUS WILL DO THE DAY THAT HE
>> >RETURNS TO MOUNT OLIVES WHENCE HE LAST LEFT IT -
>> >HE WILL KILL ALL THOSE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN KILLED
>> >ALREADY BY SOME OTHER MEANS.
>>
>> See above at John 14:19 where the world will never again see Jesus.
>
>IDIOT.
>
>THE WORLD DID NOT NEED TO SEE JESUS YET.
>THAT IS WHY THE WORLD DID NOT SEE HIM.
>
>BUT THOSE WHO WERE HIS SAW HIM,
>PLUS A GATHERING OF AT LEAST 500.

Jesus had materialized a human body when the 500 saw him. It was AFTER
his resurrection to Heaven, that ALL those on the earth would not see
him again.

Satan is alive a well somewhere in the vicinity of the earth. His
'chains of darkness' are not literal, but are spiritual darkness. Why
do you think there is so much trouble on this earth? Because Satan is
its “god”. He and his demon friends cause all kinds of problems.

For a little diversion here, where did Moses and Abraham and Ezekiel

go right when they died?

>

>THERE ARE NO FALLEN DEMON ANGELS RUNNING AROUND
>CAUSING HUMAN BEINGS TROUBLE OR OVERSEEING
>ASTROLOGY AND TAROT CARDS, LIKE YOUR JW JUNK
>TELLS PEOPLE.

Wow, you don't even believe they are around. That makes you very
vulnerable. How can Satan be the god of this system, if he is not
literally influencing humans at this time?

>
>> The fallen angels were cohabiting
>
>COHABITING?
>
>HA HA HA ! ! !
>
>CONJUGATING - CONJUGATING - CONJUGATING.
>
>SEX - SEX - SEX.
>
>EVEN THE ANGELS WERE LED BY THEIR PENISES.

When in the days of Noah, they materialized human-looking bodies, and
had babies from the daughters of men, called the Nephilim, who grew up
to be bullies, greatly adding to the violence on the earth at that
time.

Alright, try these:

-- American Standard
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

-- Living Bible
John 1:18 No one has ever actually seen God, but, of course, his only
Son has, for he is the companion of the Father and has told us all
about him.

-- Revised Standard
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom
of the Father, he has made him known.

-- International English
John 1:18 No one has ever seen deity, but Jesus, who is in the arms
of the Father, he unfolded the story.

-- Transliterated, Pronounceable
John 1:18 Theo'n oudei's heoo'rakenpoo'pote.{*} Monogenee's Theo's
{*} ho oo'n eis to'n ko'lpon tou'Patro's ekei'nos exeegee'sato.

-- Transliterated, Unaccented
John 1:18 Theon oudeis heorakenpopote.{*} Monogenes Theos {*} ho on
eis ton kolpon touPatros ekeinos exegesato.

-- New American Standard
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who
is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained {Him.}
The Testimony of John

-- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God;
it is the only Son, who is close to the Father's heart,
who has made him known.

-- New American with Apocrypha

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, who is at the
Father's side, has revealed him.

-- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, {Other
ancient authorities read [It is an only Son, God,] or [It is the only
Son]} who is close to the Father's heart, {Gk [bosom]} who has made
him known.

-- Young's Bible
John 1:18 God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on
the bosom of the Father - he did declare.

-- Darby's Bible
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who
is in the bosom of the Father, *he* hath declared him.

-- Weymouth's New Testament

John 1:18 No human eye has ever seen God: the only Son, who is in the
Father's bosom - He has made Him known.

-- Webster's Bible
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

-- New Living Translation
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God. But his only Son, who is himself
God,* is near to the Father's heart; he has told us about him.
The Testimony of John the Baptist

--New World Translations
John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who
is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.

If no earthly human ever seen God, who was Moses talking to?

>
>
>> I hope you don't take that “bosom” remark as literal.
>
>IT HERE MEANS BEING IN GOD'S HEART,
>BECAUSE ONE'S OWN HEART IS THE SAME.
>
>
>> It just means an
>> especially close relationship.
>
>NOT SO.
>
>SEE LAST TEXT.

Being in God's heart is not a close relationship?

>
>
>> (in another Scripture, the parable of
>> Lazarus and the rich man, the “bosom” of Abraham is not literal
>> either)
>
>JESUS DID MEAN IT LITERALLY.
>
>ABRAHAM IS STILL ALIVE - OR RATHER THAT SOUL
>THAT HAD BEEN INCARNATE IN THAT PHYSICAL BODY
>NAMED ABRAHAM. GOD IS NOT A GOD OF THE DEAD,
>BUT OF THE LIVING, AND GOD IS THE GOD OF
>ABRAHAM AND ISAAC AND JACOB, AND SO
>ABRAHAM AND ISAAC AND JACOB ARE STILL
>EXISTENT OR ALIVE.
>
>ALL THE WICKED ARE GATHERED WITH THE WICKED WHEN THEY DIE;
>ALL THE RIGHTEOUS ARE GATHERED WITH THE RIGHTEOUS WHEN THEY DIE.
>
>ALL NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES AND STUDIES PROVE JESUS' STATEMENT
>HERE TOO.

Don't you recall that at one point, all Jesus talks were basically
parables? (illustrations) There is just too many things wrong with it
in order to be literal. Such as:

(a) when righteous people die, they end up in Abraham's bosom. (Verse
22)

(b) a drop of water would not evaporate in a blazing fire and would
bring a person in this blazing fire, relief. (Verse 24)

(c) Hades is within calling distance of Heaven. (Verse 24,25)

Also people are alive in Hades (hell). This contradicts other
scriptures such as Ec 9:5 and Ps 146:3,4 which says that the dead are
not conscience.

(d) just being rich puts you in a fiery hell when you die. His only
fault was he didn't share with the poor. (Verse 23)

(e) just being poor gets you into Heaven when you die. (Verse 22)

Also, what is Abraham doing in Heaven when Jesus said that no human up
to this time had EVER been to heaven? Jesus says at John 3:13,

"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from
heaven--the Son of Man." (NIV)

No, there is no hellfire doctrine here. Jesus was telling a story (a
parable) to make a point.

>
>> By the way, where did Moses and Abraham and Ezekiel, etc, go right
>> when they died?
>
>WHEREVER GOD WANTED THEM TO GO TO.

And what places were that?

>
>> >> >What drugs are you on?
>> >>
>> >> Multiple prescription drugs.
>> >
>> >I BELIEVE IT.
>>
>> I am glad you believe something I wrote.
>
>WHAT YOU WROTE WAS PERSONAL.
>
>SHOULD I NOT BELIEVE IT?

Although I have a lot of faults and sin too much of the time, I am
proud to say, I don't have a problem with lying. I seem to have
complete control over that. So if I tell you something, you can take
it to the bank that it is what I firmly believe. (of course jokes not
withstanding) And have you ever looked up the definition of lying? It
is a malicious thing to try to deceive someone.

>
>> >> >God can do anything, manifest as anything, and
>> >> >it is His choice, not your's.
>> >>
>> >> No, according to the Bible God cannot do anything. For example, God
>> >> cannot lie. Titus 1:2,
>> >
>> >IDIOT.
>> >
>> >THE SUBJECT IS NOT ABOUT TALKING.
>>
>> It is about lying, something that God cannot do.
>
>A LIE IS DELIVERED BY VERBAL COMMUNICATION.
>
>THE MANIFESTATION OF A PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT VERBAL
>COMMUNICATION.
>
>WHEN I REPLIED THAT GOD CAN D O ANYTHING,
>I IN CONTEXT AND OBVIOUSLY MEANT SOMETHING PHYSICAL
>NOT SOMETHING VERBAL.

God can talk to a person literally, or in their dreams, etc. If he was
like Satan, he could lie.

>
>BUT GOD CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS A N D
>HE CAN SAY WHATEVER HE WANTS.

No argument here.

>
>YOU SURE ARE A STRANGE CAT SATISFIED TO WORSHIP A GOD
>WHO DOES NOT HAVE FREE WILL ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Since when?

>
>MY GOD IS THE BIBLICAL GOD -
>WHO IS:
>
>ALL-KNOWING

You are limiting God's abilities. God can choose NOT to know things,
if He wants. He did that with Sodom and Gomorrah. Ge 18:20,21,

"20 Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so
great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what
they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I
will know."" (NIV)



>ALL-POWERFUL
>EVERYWHERE-PRESENT.

Negatrons. God has location. And that location is Heaven.

>
>
>> >> "in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long
>> >> ages ago," (NASB)
>> >
>> >
>> >POOR TRANSLATION.
>> >
>> >GOD HAS FREE WILL

>> >

>> >GOD IS NOT A ROBOT.



>> >
>> >GOD CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS.
>>
>> Then that makes Titus 1:2 a lie!
>
>I AM NOT GOING TO LOOK THIS UP.
>
>I AM TIRED OF YOUR LAZINESS.
>
>YOU ARE LAZY, BUT THEN EXPECT
>OTHERS TO NOT BE SO.
>
>SEE WHAT A HYPOCRITE YOU
>ARE IN THIS REGARD ALSO?
>WARNING: ALL HYPOCRITES
>SHALL BE THROWN INTO
>THE LAKE OF FIRE
>BURNING WITH
>BRIMSTONE.

That fire is not literal. Notice what is tossed into it.

>
>> You can't have your cake and eat it too.
>
>TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE.
>
>> >> God can only do righteous things, not unrighteous things. As silly as
>> >> it sounds, that means we can do things that God cannot. That is just a
>> >> fact of His perfect personality.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> Jesus said that NO ONE (on earth) has ever seen Almighty God. (except
>> >> >> for Jesus)
>> >> >
>> >> >Quote him.
>> >>
>> >> Sure. Joh 6:46,
>> >>
>> >> "No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he
>> >> has seen the Father." (NIV)
>> >
>> >JOHN 6
>> >No man can see the Father,
>> >except he who is from God,
>> >he can see the Father.
>>
>> Your translation is not agreeable with many other translations:
>
>THANK GOODNESS.
>
>DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT TRUTH IS RARE?

Not with me. I do not lie.

>
>THE WORLD - THE WORLDLY - WHICH IS MOST SOULS/PEOPLE -
>PREFER LIES AND VAIN IMAGININGS TO THE TRUTH.
>
>GET A CLUE, JW PARROT.

Always
Tell the truth, member of Christendom.

Yes, that is one of the traps of Satan.

>
>> >I AM FROM GOD, AND
>> >I CAN SEE THE FATHER.
>>
>> You wouldn't be alive if you literally saw God. The Creator of those
>> trillions of suns out there is too much for our physical bodies to
>> handle.
>
>IDIOT.
>
>1. I AM NOT MY PHYSICAL BODY;
>2. GOD CAN AND HAS MANIFESTED HIMSELF TO NUMEROUS PEOPLE -
>THE HOLY BIBLE SAYS SO.

They might read like God, but they were angels representing God. We
know for sure, that was who Moses was conversing with. The literal
statement to believe is when Jesus said no person has ever seen God.
I for one, believe everything Jesus says.

>
>> But you can 'see' God with your spiritual eyes.
>
>YOU CAN SEE GOD WITH SPIRITUAL EYES,
>AND IF GOD SO WISHES YOU CAN SEE
>HIM WITH YOUR PHYSICAL EYES TOO.
>GOD CAN MANIFEST AS ANYTHING HE
>WISHES TO MANIFEST AS.

You don't want to call God a liar do you? Ex 33:20,

"But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and
live."" (NIV)

I posted this statement and showed the Scriptures which gives us that
conclusion. Do you wish to see the full posting?

But don't forget Jesus' words at Joh 14:19,

"Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.
Because I live, you also will live." (NIV)

>
>
>> I must then assume
>> this is your opinion again.
>
>YOU MUST NOT ANYTHING.
>
>GOD GAVE YOU FREE WILL.
>
>AND I DON'T HAVE A SINGLE OPINION.
>
>EVERYTHING THAT I SAY HERE IS BASED
>ON WHAT THE ENTIRE HOLY BIBLE SAYS,
>ALLOWING THE ENTIRE HOLY BIBLE TO
>INTERPRET ITSELF.

Sorry, but how can you get it so wrong? We should look at the context,
the Hebrew and Greek and Aramaic words, and other Scriptures that talk
on the same subject, we have to determine is something is literal or
not, like the symbolic lake of fire. Like most of Christendom, do you
believe our God is a sadist, and burns living beings alive? We would
expect that of Hitler, but not a God of love. (1 John 4:8) The thought
of burning people alive never even entered His mind. Jer 7:31,

"They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben
Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire--something I did
not command, nor did it enter my mind." (NIV)

>
>> >> >> >I GAVE YOU THIS CORRECT INSTRUCTION BEFORE, AND YOU
>> >> >> >HAVE STUBBORNLY AND SINFULLY REFUSED TO FOLLOW IT
>> >> >> >AND SO STILL KEEP POSTING JUNK.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I wouldn't call the Bible “junk”,
>> >> >
>> >> >I wouldn't either.
>> >> >
>> >> >You are an evil liar suggesting that I did.
>> >>
>> >> Sorry if I offended you, that was not my purpose. But what am I
>> >> supposed to think? I post things from the Bible.
>> >
>> >YOU HAVE NOT POSTED ANYTHING FROM THE BIBLE.
>>
>> How do they say it again? Liar, liar, pants on fire. You must have
>> completely different Bibles than I have.
>
>YES, SO TRUE.
>
>MY BIBLE DOES NOT SAY THAT THE END TIMES STARTED IN YEAR 1914,
>NOR THAT JESUS WAS AND/OR IS ARCHANGEL MICHAEL, NOR ANY
>OF THE OTHER LUDICROUS UNBIBLICAL CRAP THAT YOU HAVE
>POSTED TO THIS FORUM.

Your opinions of my postings is noted.

>
>> >YOU POST SCRIPTURE QUOTES AND THEN GIVE THEM
>> >INTERPRETATIONS THAT GO AGAINST MANY OTHER
>> >SCRIPTURES.
>>
>> In your opinion.
>
>NO.
>
>NEVER.
>
>I HAVE ALWAYS SHOWN SCRIPTURE QUOTES WHICH GO AGAINST
>YOUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION OF SOME SINGULAR SCRIPTURE
>OR SCRIPTURES.



>
>
>> I usually support my statements with Scriptural
>> proof.
>
>YOU NEED TO CHANGE THAT TO ALWAYS.

Many Scriptures don't need support to be understood, such as “God is
love” and “love your neighbor as yourself.” (1 John 4:8; Mt 19:19)

>
>> >LIKE WHEN YOU SAID THERE ARE NO DEAD SPIRITS.
>> >YET THE BIBLE DIRECTLY PLAINLY STATES THAT JESUS
>> >PREACHED TO THE DEAD (1 PETER 4),
>>
>> This “dead” is metaphorically meaning dead spiritually. As it says at
>> 1 Pet 4:6,
>>
>> “For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are
>> dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but
>> live according to God in the spirit.”
>
>
>S E R I O U S L Y ? ? ? ?
>
>NOW YOUR MEDS ARE DEFINITELY DOING THE TALKING.
>
>HOW BLIND OR DISHONEST CAN YOU BE ?
>
>SAYS MEN IN THE SPIRIT VERSUS MEN IN THE FLESH.
>
>JESUS PREACHED TO THE MEN IN THE SPIRIT WHEN
>HE JESUS WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE THE THREE DAYS
>AND THREE NIGHTS, SO THAT THEY MIGHT BE JUDGED
>THE SAME AS THE MEN IN THE FLESH THAT HE HAD
>ALREADY PREACHED TO FOR APPROXIMATELY 3 YEARS.



>
>
>> Notice that they “live” to God.
>
>LIAR.
>
>IT DOES NOT SAY THAT.

That they “live” to God? Maybe you need glasses because that is
exactly what they say.

>
>IT SAYS: "that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but
>live according to God in the spirit.”
>
>SOULS DO NOT "LIVE TO GOD".
>
>THEY EITHER LIVE TO GOD MOSTLY OR
>ELSE LIVE TO SATAN MOSTLY -
>IT IS EACH SOULS CHOICE
>WHICH THEY WANT OR PREFER.

I assume by “soul” you mean some mysterious part of humans that
survives death, and is immortal, as the churches mostly preach.

The Bible uses the word “soul” (Hebrew nephesh) to mean the whole
organism. It first uses the word soul to describe fish. Ge 1:20,

"And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living souls, and
let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of the heavens. " (DBY)

The first use of the word “soul” for a human is at Genesis 2:7,

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
(KJV)

Notice that Adam wasn't 'given' a soul, but when he started to breath
he BECAME a soul. So when a person dies, a soul dies, thus it can't be
immortal. Eze 18:4,

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the
soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (KJV)

>
>
>> Thus these people are not literally
>> dead. It is like Eph 2:1,
>>
>> “ AND YOU he made alive, when you were dead through the trespasses and
>> sins “ (RSV)
>
>
>THAT PASSAGE IS ABOUT SPIRITUAL DEATH.

That's exactly what I am talking about. “ Thus these people are not
literally dead.”

>
>THE OTHER PASSAGES ARE ABOUT DISINCARNATE SOULS ON
>THE OTHER SIDE OR SAME DIFFERENCE IN THE UNSEEN REALM
>WHERE THE DISINCARNATE OR PHYSICALLY DEAD OR "DEAD"
>RESIDE. JESUS PREACHED TO THEM WHEN HE WAS ON THE
>OTHER SIDE.

Jesus had to be in the heart of the earth 3 days and nights. (Mt
12:40) He was not conscious of anything during that time. (Ec 9:5; Ps
146:3,4)

>
>> It is a waste of time to preach to those literally dead, because they
>> are not conscious of anything. Ec 9:5,
>
>GOD DOES NOT WASTE TIME,
>AND SCRIPTURE TESTIFIES THAT
>GOD WILL JUDGE BOTH THE CARNATE
>LIVING SOULS AND THE DISINCARNATE
>DEAD SOULS.

You told me you don't give opinions, but rather back your statements
up with Scriptures. I failed to see any here on your last comment.

>
>> "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing;
>> they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is
>> forgotten." (NIV)
>
>HANG YOUR BELIEF ON ONE STATEMENT OF IMPERFECT SOLOMON
>IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, RATHER THAN THE MAJORITY OF SCRIPTURES
>ON THE SUBJECT AND PRIORITY TO JESUS' WORDS?
>
>NO THANKS.

Then you are deliberately contradicting 2 Tim 3:16,

"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for
refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness." (NAB)

You forget that God inspired those imperfect men to accurately write
things down. He was aware of their imperfections.

>
>YOU CAN BE SUCH AN EXTREME IDIOT AND FOOL, BUT I SHALL NOT BE.
>
>AND BTW: IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT THAT STATEMENT WAS MEANT BY
>SOLOMON AS A RIDICULE AGAINST THE LIES AND VAIN IMAGININGS
>OF THE STUPID POPULACE.
>
>> Ps 146:3,4,
>>
>> "3 Do not trust in princes, In mortal man,
>
>IN SOLOMON.
>
>> in whom there is no
>> salvation.
>> 4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very
>> day his thoughts perish." (NASB)
>>
>> Jesus did go to where those fallen angels were,
>
>
>JESUS NEVER PREACHED TO ANGELS ! ! ! !

He most certainly did. And this was not done while Jesus was dead
because he had to be in the heart of the earth for 3 days and nights.
He was nonexistent during that time. (or “asleep” as Jesus calls it) 1
Pe 3:18-20,

“18. For Christ also suffered {Other ancient authorities read [died]}
for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, in order to
bring you {Other ancient authorities read [us]} to God. He was put to
death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit,
19. in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in
prison,
20. who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in
the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that
is, eight persons, were saved through water.” (NRS)

Notice the wording of verse 18. Jesus was made alive in the spirit (as
a spirit being), then it goes on to say he (in that state of
resurrection as a spirit being) preached to the spirits in prison. It
was a message of doom, because God has already adversely judged them.
Satan and his demon friends are on this earth and tempt us humans. 1
Peter 5:8,

“ Discipline yourselves, keep alert. {Or [be vigilant]} Like a roaring
lion your adversary the devil prowls around, looking for someone to
devour.” (NRS)

>
>AND THERE IS NO "WERE" - IN CHAINS OF DARKNESS
>IS WHERE THOSE ANGELS STILL ARE AND WILL BE
>UNTO JUDGMENT DAY ! ! ! !

Negatrons. See 1 Peter 5:8 above.

>
>
>> and likely preached a
>> message of doom. But they were all alive in Tartarus.
>>
>>
>> <AND JESUS HIMSELF
>> >PLAINLY TAUGHT THAT THE DEAD ARE COGNIZANT (LUKE 16).
>>
>> Luke 16 is about the PARABLE of the rich man and Lazarus. It was not
>> meant to be taken literally.
>
>WOW! WHAT AN IDIOT AND/OR LIAR YOU ARE!
>
>JESUS NEVER SAID IT WAS A PARABLE.

I don't recall Jesus saying that any of them were parables. That was
the Bible writer's assertions. Mt 13:34.35,

“34. Jesus told the crowds all these things in parables; without a
parable he told them nothing.
35. This was to fulfill what had been spoken through the prophet:
{Other ancient authorities read [the prophet Isaiah]}
"I will open my mouth to speak in parables;
I will proclaim what has been hidden from the foundation of the
world." {Other ancient authorities lack [of the world]}”

>
>AND IT WAS MEANT TO BE TAKEN AS A STORY
>ILLUSTRATIVE OF FACT, TRUTH, REALITY.

Like I believe we covered this once before. If you take the parable
literal, you run into all kinds of problems. Concerning Lazarus and
the rich man at Luke 16:19-31, it is a parable. As one dictionary
defines a parable,

"a short allegorical story designed to convey a truth or moral
lesson." (The Random House College Dictionary)

If we take the story as literal and not allegorical then we run into
some problems. It would mean that all those with divine favor could
fit into the bosom of one man, Abraham. Also, that any water on a
person's fingertip would not evaporate by the fire of Hades. That a
small drop of water would bring relief to one suffering there. Does
that sound reasonable to you? As the Jerusalem Bible says in a
footnote on this parable, that it is a

"parable in story form without reference to any historical personage".


Did Jesus mean for us to take the parable literal? If so, we would
have to draw these conclusions.
(a) when righteous people die they end up in Abraham's bosom.
(Verse 22)
(b) a drop of water would not evaporate in a blazing fire and
would bring a person in this blazing fire relief. (Verse 24)
(c) people are alive in Hades. This contradicts other
scriptures. Also, Hades is within calling distance of Heaven.(Verses
24,25)
(d) just being rich puts you in a fiery hell when you die. His
only fault was he didn't share with the poor. (Verse 23)
(e) just being poor gets you into Heaven when you die. (Verse 22)

Also, what is Abraham doing in Heaven when Jesus said that no human
up
to this time had been to heaven? Jesus says at John 3:13,

"Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from
heaven, the Son of man."
No, there is no hellfire here. Jesus was telling a story to make a
> point.

>
>
>> >ALL OF THE JW TEACHINGS ARE JUNK, EXCEPT FOR THAT
>> >GOD AND JESUS ARE TWO BEINGS NOT ONE AND THE
>> >SAME BEING.
>>

Your opinion of JW's is noted. I would hope you would change your mind
some day:)

>>
>>
>> You just disagreed with most of the churches of Christendom, who
>> believe in the Trinity.
>
>
>JAMES, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY AT THIS GROUP
>THAT I AM A SPIRITUAL BIBLICIST, EXACTLY AS JESUS WAS,
>AND AS IS PREACHED BY THE HOLY BIBLE ITSELF.
>
>THE HOLY BIBLE DOES NOT PREACH RELIGION.

I beg to differ. It says there is only “one faith”. (Eph 4:5) The
apostle Paul says that Christians should come together as a
congregation. Heb 10:25,

“not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but
encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day
approaching.”

Paul even tells the qualifications for bishops and Deacons in the
congregations. This is truly a Christian religion. (1 Tim 3:1-13)

>
>AND THE HOLY BIBLE SAYS THAT THE LORD GOD IS ONE.

Yes, that is Deut 6:4. And most of the churches ignore that verse in
order to promote their Trinity doctrine of the 4th century

>
>> >> If you call the
>> >> postings “junk”, then you are calling the Bible junk. Maybe you want
>> >> to reword it.
>> >
>> >THAT JESUS WAS AND/OR IS MICHAEL IS JUNK.
>> >THAT JESUS HAS BEEN RULING FROM HEAVEN SINCE 1914 IS JUNK.
>> >THAT THERE ARE NO DEAD SPIRITS IS JUNK.
>>
>> In the Bible, angels are called spirits.
>
>THEY ARE CALLED BY DIFFERENT NOUNS,
>NOT JUST 'SPIRITS' - LIKE ANGELS, SPIRITS,
>MINISTERS, MESSENGERS, MORE.
>
>AND THE SOULS INCARNATE IN HUMAN BODIES
>ARE ALSO CALLED 'SPIRITS'.

Negatrons. Even animals have “spirit” as this inspired Scripture tells
us:
Ec 3:19,

“for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they
all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and
they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals,
for everything is futile.” (NWT)

>
>
>> Every angel that has been
>> created, is still alive. Although they are dead spiritually,
>
>ONLY THE FALLEN ANGELS ARE DEAD SPIRITUALLY.

That is what I meant.

>
>> they
>> literally are alive. But their time is short and soon they will be
>> nonexistent along with the unrighteous humans.
>
>
>NOT SO.
>
>JESUS SAID THAT BEING LIKE AN ANGEL,
>ONE COULD NOT DIE:

That couldn't be true, since the wicked angels will be destroyed, not
live forever. Mr 1:24,

“and he cried out, "What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth?
Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are, the Holy One of
God."” (NRS)

>
>LUKE 20
>For they cannot die again, because they are like angels.


>
>SATAN AND THE OTHER FALLEN ANGELS
>WILL EXIST AND SUFFER TORMENT ETERNALLY.

No they won't. God is no sadist and will not torture anyone. All
unrighteous beings whether angel or human will cease to exist. (be
destroyed)

>
>
>> >THAT THERE ARE A BUNCH OF DEMONIC ANGELS ON THE LOOSE IS JUNK.
>>
>> Is Scriptural. That is why the Bible says “woe for the earth”. (Rev
>> 12:12b) Because the Devil and his demon angels have been tossed down
>> to the vicinity of the earth.
>
>IDIOT.
>
>THAT IS THE SAME EVENT AS DESCRIBED IN GENESIS 6 ET CETERA.
>

No it isn't.

>THAT IS NOT FUTURE OR PRESENT, BUT ABOUT THE PAST.

The Revelation Scripture is as yet future to us

>
>ALL THOSE ANGELS, EXCEPT FOR LUCIFER, ARE KEPT IN CHAINS
>OF DARKNESS RESERVED UNTO JUDGMENT DAY.

Yes, they cannot materialize physical bodies like they did in the days
of Noah. But they can influence humans. What do you think these
'ghosts' are? They are demons pretending to be dead humans, which goes
contrary to the Bible.

>
>
>> >THAT ASTROLOGY TAROT CARDS ETC. ARE DEMONIC IS JUNK.
>>
>> I never addressed that topic yet, but I agree with you. All forms of
>> spiritism are junk.
>
>I STUDIED ALL THE RELIGIONS.
>
>I KNOW WHAT JW TEACH.
>
>YOU AGREE WITH ME THAT THE JW STATEMENT THAT
>ASTROLOGY TAROT CARDS ETC. ARE DEMONIC IS JUNK?
>
>THANK YOU.

I mean that Astrology and tarot cards are demonic junk, and real
Christians stay away from all things of that nature. (such as wigi
boards, talking to the dead (which is really talking to the lying
demons), and all spiritualistic practices.

>
>BUT SPIRITISM IS INTEREST IN THE DISINCARNATE
>SPIRITS - WHETHER ANGELS OR HUMAN SOULS.
>
>GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.

Like I said, you are so far out of it, that it would take a while to
set matters straight.

>
>ASTROLOGY AND TAROT CARDS ETC. HAVE NOTHING TO DO
>WITH SPIRITISM.

And I am supposed to just believe you? Astrology is a pseudoscience.
I once was into it, and even made a few horoscopes. People's birth
signs are not correct, because of precession of the equinoxes. It
throws them off one or two signs.

>
>
>> >THAT SALVATION IS NOT EARNED IS JUNK.
>>
>> I don't recall stating such a thing.
>
>YOU DID.
>
>> Salvation is earned, as Jesus
>> shows us at Mt 24:13,
>>
>> "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved." (NASB)
>>
>> Thus salvation is conditional upon a person remaining righteous to the
>> end.
>
>
>NOW YOU HAVE DISAGREED WITH EVERYONE AT THIS GROUP
>EXCEPT FOR ME.

I call it like it is.

>
>
>> >THAT THE EARTH SHALL EXIST FOREVER IS JUNK.
>>
>> Are you sure you have read the Bible? Ec 1:4,
>>
>> "Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever."
>> (NIV)
>>
>> And Ps 104:5,
>>
>> "Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed
>> for ever." (KJV)
>
>
>ARE YOU SURE Y O U HAVE READ THE BIBLE?
>
>JESUS:
>HEAVEN AND EARTH SHALL PASS AWAY.

What is wrong with Heaven? That is where God lives. Why destroy the
earth? Just remove the bad people on it and put good ones there. No
need to destroy the earth.

>
>PETER:
>THE EARTH AND EVERYTHING ON IT SHALL BE DECREATED BY FIRE.
>
>JOHN:
>AND FIRE CAME DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN...
>AND THE EARTH AND THE HEAVENS FLED AWAY, AND
>THERE WAS NO PLACE FOUND FOR THEM....
>FOR THE FIRST HEAVEN AND THE FIRST EARTH
>HAD PASSED AWAY, AND THE SEA WAS NOR MORE.
>
>AS FAR AS YOUR OLD TESTAMENT QUOTES ABOVE,
>THE WORD TRANSLATED "FOREVER" MEANT
>FOR A LONG TIME, NOT FOR ETERNITY.

Actually it does according to Strong's Concordance:

“Strong's Ref. # 5769

Romanized `owlam
Pronounced o-lawm'

or `olam {o-lawm'}; from HSN5956; properly, concealed, i.e. the
vanishing point; generally, time out of mind (past or future), i.e.
(practically) eternity; frequentatively, adverbial (especially with
prepositional prefix) always: “

>
>WHEN YOU STOOD IN LINE TOO LONG AND
>SAID THAT IT TOOK FOREVER, DID YOU
>MEAN YOU STOOD IN LINE FOR ALL
>ETERNITY?

You can't compare idioms in modern English with the definition of
ancient Hebrew words.

>
>
>
>> >THAT PEOPLE NEED A RELIGION IS JUNK.
>>
>> God will judge those who do not follow the religion of the Bible for
>> whatever their reasons.
>
>THE BIBLE DOES NOT HAVE A RELIGION,
>NOR DOES IT PREACH RELIGION.
>
>IT PREACHES SPIRITUALITY:

It preaches lots of things such as morality etc. But it does teach a
true religion called the “one faith”. (Eph4:5)

>
>Galatians 5:16
>This I say then: Lead a spiritual life.
>--
>Romans 8:6
>To be carnally minded is death; but to be
>spiritually minded is life and peace.
>--
>1 Peter 2:5
>As living stones, build up yourselves and become
>spiritual temples and holy priests to offer up
>spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God.
>--
>Colossians 1:7-10
>Epaphras our beloved fellow servant...has made
>known to us your love for spiritual things. For
>this cause we...do not cease to pray for you and
>to ask that you might be filled with the knowledge
>of the will of God in all wisdom and in all spiritual
>understanding, that you might live a righteous
>life, please God with all good works, and bring
>forth good fruits.

James 1:27,

“ Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is
this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep
oneself unstained from the world.“

[Debra Dee McQueen Freeman]

THAT LINK ARTICLE IS NOT ABOUT A MISTAKE THAT THEY MADE.

IT IS ABOUT A MISTAKE THAT THEY MADE IN THE DISTANT PAST BUT
THEN IN CURRENT TIMES LIE ABOUT WHAT THEY SAID IN THE PAST.

> >> >YOU ARE CONTENTIOUS AND WRONG YET AGAIN:
> >> >
> >> >I AM NOT ON HATE SITES.
> >> >
> >> >I MERELY SEARCHED "JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES 1914".
> >>
> >> And by going on that site you can't see that it is an anti-JW sight?
> >
> >
> >NO.
> >
> >I DID NOT GO ON THAT SITE - I CLICKED ON ONE OF THE SEARCH
> >RESULTS - AND THEN I SAW THE WORDS "FACTS ABOUT
> >JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES" - AND THEN I SAW THAT THE
> >ARTICLE IS L O A D E D WITH LITERATURE QUOTES
> >FROM DISTANT PAST TO PRESENT.
> >
> >IT TOTALLY APPEARS TO ME TO BE PRO-TRUTH AND ACCURATE.
> >
> That remains to be seen.

NO.

ANYONE CAN READ THE LINK ARTICLE.

IT IS VERY CLEAR AND SEEMS MOST TRUSTWORTHY.

> >> >> By the way, there is no JW literature which says the end was
> >> >> definitely going to come in 1914.
> >> >
> >> >YES THERE HAS BEEN.
> >> >
> >> >THESE ARE QUOTED IN THE LINK THAT I GAVE.
> >>
> >> I didn't see any. Try quoting them again. Maybe I missed something.
> >> Remember we are talking about the end of the world.
> >
> >WHAT A LIAR YOU ARE.
> >
> >THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE ARTICLE SAYS:
> >
> >One of the most misleading statements in Watchtower publications is
> >that they accurately foretold 1914 to be the “start” of the conclusion of
> >this system of things. Rather, 1914 was predicted to be the “end” of the
> >system of things, the conclusion of Armageddon, and the start of the earthly paradise.
>
> Please show me the JW literature that says that. I can probably
> verify.

WHAT YOU ARE HERE ASKING FOR IS IN THE LINK ARTICLE.

JUST READ IT.

> From what I understand, JW's knew that 1914 was a marked year for
> changes.

JW'S DID NOT KNOW ANY SUCH THING.

CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL STOLE THE YEAR 1914
PROPHECY FROM THE PYRAMIDOLOGISTS:

http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/11914.html

http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/3pyramidology.html


AS FOR THE REST OF YOUR REPLY TO ME,
IT IS WAY TOO LONG AT THIS POINT AND
I DO NOT HAVE THE TIME NOR THE
INCLINATION TO DIGRESS WITH
NEAR EVERYTHING THAT YOU SAY.

SUFFICE THAT YOU ARE CLEARLY
IN A GNARLY CULT.

[James]

Debra Dee McQueen Freeman <dfre...@live.com>

Like I said, that remains to be seen.

>
>> >> >> By the way, there is no JW literature which says the end was
>> >> >> definitely going to come in 1914.
>> >> >
>> >> >YES THERE HAS BEEN.
>> >> >
>> >> >THESE ARE QUOTED IN THE LINK THAT I GAVE.
>> >>
>> >> I didn't see any. Try quoting them again. Maybe I missed something.
>> >> Remember we are talking about the end of the world.
>> >
>> >WHAT A LIAR YOU ARE.
>> >
>> >THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE ARTICLE SAYS:
>> >
>> >One of the most misleading statements in Watchtower publications is
>> >that they accurately foretold 1914 to be the “start” of the conclusion of
>> >this system of things. Rather, 1914 was predicted to be the “end” of the
>> >system of things, the conclusion of Armageddon, and the start of the earthly paradise.
>>
>> Please show me the JW literature that says that. I can probably
>> verify.
>
>
>
>WHAT YOU ARE HERE ASKING FOR IS IN THE LINK ARTICLE.
>
>JUST READ IT.

Alright, just give me the link again.

>
>
>
>> From what I understand, JW's knew that 1914 was a marked year for
>> changes.
>
>
>
>JW'S DID NOT KNOW ANY SUCH THING.
>
>CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL STOLE THE YEAR 1914
>PROPHECY FROM THE PYRAMIDOLOGISTS:

Pure, unmitigated, off the beaten path:

“Deliverance in Modern Times
11 What of our time? On Friday morning, October 2, 1914, Charles Taze
Russell, who took the lead at that time among the Bible Students,
strode into the dining room at Bethel in Brooklyn, New York. “Good
morning, all,” he said cheerily. Then, before taking his seat, he
joyfully announced: “The Gentile times have ended; their kings have
had their day.” Once again, the time had come for Jehovah, the
Sovereign of the universe, to act in behalf of his people. And act he
did!" (2007 Watchtower, 11/1, p.

Thus 1914 was to be the end of the Gentiles. So they knew it to be a
special year.


>
>http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/11914.html
>
>http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/3pyramidology.html

Yes, I am aware of that pyramid nonsense. Note:

"11 Years before the outbreak of the first world war, the anointed
remnant had been proclaiming that 1914 would be a significant date in
Bible prophecy. However, some of their expectations were premature,
and their view of what would happen was less than perfect. For
example, C. T. Russell, first president of the Watch Tower Society,
and his associates could see that a vast preaching work was necessary.
They read: “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the
world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
(Matthew 24:14, King James Version) How, though, could their
relatively small group ever do that?" (1998, 5/15, pp 11,12)

>
>
>AS FOR THE REST OF YOUR REPLY TO ME,
>IT IS WAY TOO LONG AT THIS POINT AND
>I DO NOT HAVE THE TIME NOR THE
>INCLINATION TO DIGRESS WITH
>NEAR EVERYTHING THAT YOU SAY.
>
>SUFFICE THAT YOU ARE CLEARLY
>IN A GNARLY CULT.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are not a cult. Rather, we are Christians who do
our best to follow the example set by Jesus Christ and to live by his
teachings.

What is a cult? The term “cult” means different things to different
people. However, consider two common perceptions regarding cults and
why those perceptions don’t apply to us.

Some think of a cult as being a new or unorthodox religion. Jehovah’s
Witnesses have not invented a new religion. On the contrary, we
pattern our worship after that of the first-century Christians, whose
example and teachings were recorded in the Bible. (2 Timothy 3:16, 17)
We believe that the Holy Scriptures should be the authority on what is
orthodox in matters of worship.

Some think of a cult as being a dangerous religious sect with a human
leader. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not look to any human as their leader.
Rather, we adhere to the standard that Jesus set for his followers
when he stated: “Your Leader is one, the Christ.”—?Matthew 23:10.

Far from being a dangerous cult, Jehovah’s Witnesses practice a
religion that benefits its members and others in the community. For
example, our ministry has helped many people to overcome harmful
addictions, such as the abuse of drugs and alcohol. In addition, we
conduct literacy classes around the world, helping thousands learn to
read and write. And we are actively involved in disaster relief. We
work hard to have a positive impact on others, just as Jesus commanded
his followers to do. Matthew 5:13-16. (from www.jw.org)

James, 1 Cor 11:3 www.jw.org

>
>

[James]

Debra Dee McQueen Freeman <dfre...@live.com>

Based on the Scriptures already presented earlier, Jesus was very
possibly the archangel Michael. Jesus, the angels, and God, all have a
SPIRIT BODIES. We have physical bodies, they have spirit bodies. If
there are different kinds of spirit bodies, the Bible doesn't say.

When Jesus came to the earth, he was not an angel. He had a physical
body, but not exactly like ours, because his was a 'perfect' physical
body.
Outside of that, it was the same.

Obviously Jesus body looked the same as other people. It was not
glowing or had a halo over it etc, because Jesus could blend right in
within a crowd.

When Jesus died, he gave that perfect physical BODY as the ransom.
Lu 22:19,

"And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them,
saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of
me."" (NIV)

Also Heb 10:10,

“By this "will," we have been consecrated through the offering of the
body of Jesus Christ once for all.“ (NAB)

Thus Jesus could not have been given back the same perfect physical
body that he had, or it would nullify the ransom. Instead he was given
a spirit body. That's all we know about that spirit body. 1 Pe 3:18,

"For Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the sake of
the unrighteous, that he might lead you to God. Put to death in the
flesh, he was brought to life in the spirit." (NABRE)

So Jesus was given a spirit body in the resurrection. But he had to
materialize a physical body in order to be seen by men. (and woman)
And that is why, many people did not at first recognize him. Mary
Magdalene thought he was the gardener.

Jesus is now in Heaven, and has been given super authority, being the
2nd most powerful being in the universe. All humans and angels are to
give him his due respect.

>
>HA HA HA ! ! !

I am glad I amuse you. I have some things to preach about that should
have you rolling on the floor. Hint: Those who go to Heaven.

>
>USE YOUR BRAIN, MAN ! ! !
>
>I HAVE ASKED YOU A NUMBER OF TIMES TO START
>USING YOUR BRAIN AND TO START THINKING.
>
>YOU HAVE YET TO FOLLOW THAT ADVICE MUCH
>EITHER.
>
>IF YOU HAD, YOU WOULD NO LONGER ALIGN
>YOURSELF WITH THAT JW CULT.

You need to get your words straight.

A modern 'cult' usually all live in the same area. And they don't like
outsiders.
JW's live all over the place, and you may have some for you neighbors
right now. JW's also go to outsiders to preach and teach. (Mt
28:19,20)

A modern 'cult' also has a mesmerizing leader, who usually has full
control over his flock, esp their wallets. JW's have no such leader.
Their leader is Jesus Christ, not some human; and the BIBLE says to
obey your spiritual leaders. Heb 13:17,

“Obey your leaders and submit {to them,} for they keep watch over
your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with
joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.” (NRS)

Thus we are to JOYFULLY obey our spiritual leaders. Does your church
do that?

The apostle Paul gives the qualifications for those leaders at 1
Timothy chapter 3.

James, 1 Cor 11:3 www.jw.org


>
>
>