Buddy Walthers and the alleged bullet find
Dave Reitzes
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/slug.htm
For another good Buddy Walthers quote, you might want to see if you can
get a copy of the Dallas Morning News, December 15, 1967.
According to a secondary source citing another secondary source (Penn
Jones), the DMN article quotes Walther as replying to Jim Garrison's
published allegation about this alleged bullet discovery, "I never saw any
bullet. That's all there is to it. . . . If I had found a bullet, I would
have shouted . . . 'Look, a bullet!'"
Posner claims that Walthers found a bone fragment, BTW. His sources are a
personal interview with Sheriff J. C. Bowles and an undated Earl Golz
interview with Gus Rose. (Posner, p. 326 fn.) However, Walthers didn't
mention this to the Warren Commission and I don't know of any such
fragment ever being introduced into evidence, so I suspect this is just a
dubious rumor.
Dave
Perpetual Starlight
http://reitzes.www4.50megs.com/
Original fiction, articles, music and more
John McAdams
>For .John, re: your Walthers/bullet factoid Web page:
>
>http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/slug.htm
>
>For another good Buddy Walthers quote, you might want to see if you can
>get a copy of the Dallas Morning News, December 15, 1967.
>
>According to a secondary source citing another secondary source (Penn
>Jones), the DMN article quotes Walther as replying to Jim Garrison's
>published allegation about this alleged bullet discovery, "I never saw any
>bullet. That's all there is to it. . . . If I had found a bullet, I would
>have shouted . . . 'Look, a bullet!'"
>
I've got the DMN article, but it's at work. I'll try to remember to
check this when I get in to work.
I have a page on this:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/death13.htm
I used the photo caption as supplied by corbis.com in the text. It
wasn't from the DMN, so I assume it's from the TIMES-HERALD, but ILL
at Marquette's library couldn't get the TIMES-HERALD. It seems that
very few libraries have it, and none will lend the microfilm.
>Posner claims that Walthers found a bone fragment, BTW. His sources are a
>personal interview with Sheriff J. C. Bowles and an undated Earl Golz
>interview with Gus Rose. (Posner, p. 326 fn.) However, Walthers didn't
>mention this to the Warren Commission and I don't know of any such
>fragment ever being introduced into evidence, so I suspect this is just a
>dubious rumor.
>
Sounds like it, certainly.
.John
--
Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Jean Davison
<20010728080105...@ng-cm1.aol.com>...
Dave,
Somewhere I have a Baton Rouge newspaper article in which
Walthers is quoted as saying that it wasn't a bullet he picked up
(as Garrison had charged) but a piece of bone. You may've seen
the photos in Gary Shaw's "Cover-Up" showing what appears to be
Walthers' hand picking up an irregular-shaped object -- one of a series
of photos taken on the south side of the street (you know the ones
I mean). Looks more like a bone fragment than a bullet to me.
If that's what it was, I think he may've failed to mention it in his
testimony out of embarrassment, for how would he explain
whatever he did with a piece of the President's skull?
Jean
Dave Reitzes
>Dave Reitzes wrote in message
Hi, Jean.
Wasn't it the "mystery man" whose hand we see in that photograph?
Of course, Al Maddox (Walthers's former partner and, BTW, Beverly Oliver's
cousin) claims that Walthers told HIM he found a bullet . . . and kept it.
Oh, well, as Wesley Liebeler once said, we'll just add this to the pile.
I'd like to see that Baton Rouge article, tho'.
Jean Davison
Dave Reitzes wrote in message
<20010729111858...@ng-xa1.aol.com>...
Maybe, but I don't think so. I can't find the photo right
now, but it's unlike the ones I've seen in other books. This
one actually shows the object, but not the man's face. By
comparing the clothes and hand with the other photos,
I concluded it was Walthers -- could be wrong, though.
>
>Of course, Al Maddox (Walthers's former partner and, BTW, Beverly Oliver's
>cousin) claims that Walthers told HIM he found a bullet . . . and kept it.
>
>Oh, well, as Wesley Liebeler once said, we'll just add this to the pile.
>
>I'd like to see that Baton Rouge article, tho'.
Send your address to dav...@globalnetisp.net
and it's yours. The actual quote is:
"Dec. 12, 1967: Garrison released a series of
photographs which he said shows a federal agent
picking up a .45 caliber bullet near where President
Kennedy was shot while a Dallas deputy sheriff looks
on. [.....]
"Dec. 13, 1967: Dallas Deputy Sheriff Raymond
Walter [sic] said he was the man in the Garrison
photographs, but that the object was not a bullet
but a piece of the President's skull."
This was in an article headlined "Garrison Assassination
Probe Events Are Listed," Baton Rouge Sunday Advocate,
March 17, 1968.
Jean
Denis Morissette
These are the photos I scanned from COVER-UP. I encircled in white the
object observed by Whalthers in the photo 1-14.
http://www.iquebec.com/Assassinat/Walthers1.jpg
Walthers puts his hand over the object in 1-15. Of course, the object
is no longer seen in 1-16. Where did that object go??? Those who say
that Walthers did not pick up anything evidently never did the effort
to look at those photos.
banwllm5
>
>These are the photos I scanned from COVER-UP. I encircled in white the
>object observed by Whalthers in the photo 1-14.
>
>http://www.iquebec.com/Assassinat/Walthers1.jpg
>
>Walthers puts his hand over the object in 1-15. Of course, the object
>is no longer seen in 1-16. Where did that object go??? Those who say
>that Walthers did not pick up anything evidently never did the effort
>to look at those photos.
>
>http://www.iquebec.com/Assassinat/Walthers2.jpg
>
object" appear to be a bullet. Nor does this explain why "agent" would pick
up, uh, something after Walthers has already done so. As for a bullet, a
properly computerized person could scan a .45 Automatic bullet and then do a
comparison. IMO a negative outcome will be obtained.
Would Walthers really be so insane as to keep a bullet that he had been
photographed picking up? Why is this not shown to the others? Why is "agent"
satisfied with second best--for that matter, multiple bullet fragments lying
peacefully on the grass? Note that whatever is found does not elicit
expressions of triumph or shock from any. No one crowds about.
Skull fragments is the better answer than bullet.. Does not explain why
Walthers is not recorded as turning in same. Nor why "agent" never has been
identified (let alone why HIS report/evidence went South). Strange doings, no
question.
Bill B
Mark Oakes
If it comes down to believing Posner or Deputy Al Maddox, a personal
friend of mine for 10 years, I am all the way with Al as he said that
Buddy told him he found a bullet and this is confirmed by Buddy's Wife
Dorthy,whom I met in 1992 and she would not go on video-but wrote me a
note to this effect and being in Law Enforcement herself before-knows
what this means.
I helped Al sell his "Note from Jack Ruby" as Ruby was taken to
Parkland Hospital and thought he was dying. Anthony Pugliese bought it
as well as the gun ruby used to kill Oswald. And this is in my
Eyewitness Video-Part-I-although some have"Rode the coat-tails" and
claim they are"Buddies" too--only to say Al does not know what he is
talking about.
When in fact on Video he said that,"ruby wrote it was a conspiracy and
that his Motive WAS to silence Oswald." Otherwise a collector would
not pay $10,000 for a "mean nothing letter". Ruby's only Interview on
Video was,"You'll never know the true facts--because the people WHO
PUT ME In the position i'm in--"
That says it all
Mark Oakes
John McAdams
wrote:
>drei...@aol.com (Dave Reitzes) wrote in message news:<20010728080105...@ng-cm1.aol.com>...
>> For .John, re: your Walthers/bullet factoid Web page:
>>
>> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/slug.htm
>>
>
>
>If it comes down to believing Posner or Deputy Al Maddox, a personal
>friend of mine for 10 years, I am all the way with Al as he said that
>Buddy told him he found a bullet and this is confirmed by Buddy's Wife
>Dorthy,whom I met in 1992 and she would not go on video-but wrote me a
>note to this effect and being in Law Enforcement herself before-knows
>what this means.
>
>I helped Al sell his "Note from Jack Ruby" as Ruby was taken to
>Parkland Hospital and thought he was dying. Anthony Pugliese bought it
>as well as the gun ruby used to kill Oswald. And this is in my
>Eyewitness Video-Part-I-although some have"Rode the coat-tails" and
>claim they are"Buddies" too--only to say Al does not know what he is
>talking about.
>
Why should we care that Maddox thinks the note means WHEN WE CAN READ
IT FOR OURSELVES?
>When in fact on Video he said that,"ruby wrote it was a conspiracy and
>that his Motive WAS to silence Oswald."
No, the note says that Ruby was framed by a conspiracy with the claim
that his motive was to silence Oswald.
>Otherwise a collector would
>not pay $10,000 for a "mean nothing letter".
COLLECTORS GET BILKED ALL THE TIME!
>Ruby's only Interview on
>Video was,"You'll never know the true facts--because the people WHO
>PUT ME In the position i'm in--"
>
He certainly believed there was a conspiracy. He just insisted he
wasn't part of it.
.John
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Jean Davison
"banwllm5" <banw...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010803131329...@ng-cj1.aol.com...
of bone than a bullet for the reasons you say. There is also
something in the body language of the men in this series
of photos -- no eye contact between them, e.g. -- that suggests
an uneasiness about this matter on the grass. Jean
Greg Jaynes
> If it comes down to believing Posner or Deputy Al Maddox, a personal
> friend of mine for 10 years, I am all the way with Al as he said that
> Buddy told him he found a bullet and this is confirmed by Buddy's Wife
> Dorthy,whom I met in 1992 and she would not go on video-but wrote me a
> note to this effect and being in Law Enforcement herself before-knows
> what this means.
>
> I helped Al sell his "Note from Jack Ruby" as Ruby was taken to
> Parkland Hospital and thought he was dying. Anthony Pugliese bought it
> as well as the gun ruby used to kill Oswald. And this is in my
> Eyewitness Video-Part-I-although some have"Rode the coat-tails" and
> claim they are"Buddies" too--only to say Al does not know what he is
> talking about.
Al Maddox never offers the interpretation of the Ruby note as you claim on
your video. It's not there. Al has never given this interpretation to
anyone. It is strictly something you cooked up and got Larry Howard to get
behind. On your video Larry Howard say's to Al:
Why don't you read back on the back what it say's about Oswald?
Al read the whole note beginning on the front as can be seen on your
video. He never makes an issue of the sentence you and Howard were primed
for. And isn't it inteteresting that Howard jumped to that question.
Obviously you and him had discussed it.
Plus, I talked to Al about it. He is not saying what you claim. His
interest was that he had the note period. Not the half sentence you have
latched onto. Don't try to drag Al's reputation down to serve your
interests. He is a good man and doesn't deserve it.
No one should be surprised that Larry Howard would get behind you on this
as he was up to his eyebrows in the Ricky White hoax . For y'all to try to
use Al like this is par for the course.
As far as Buddy Walthers saying he found a bullet to folks, I don't doubt
that he did. But he was a BS'er and was always pulling stunts. Even Al
didn't know whether he could believe him or not about the bullet.
Here is what Al said when I asked him about it. - 1.14 mb .wav file.
http://angelfire.com/country/DallasHistory/amonbw.wav
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Greg Jaynes
John McAdams <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
news:3b6c934a...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> On 3 Aug 2001 19:52:38 -0500, realjf...@hotmail.com (Mark Oakes)
> wrote:
>
> >drei...@aol.com (Dave Reitzes) wrote in message
news:<20010728080105...@ng-cm1.aol.com>...
> >> For .John, re: your Walthers/bullet factoid Web page:
> >>
> >> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/slug.htm
> >>
> >
> >
> >If it comes down to believing Posner or Deputy Al Maddox, a personal
> >friend of mine for 10 years, I am all the way with Al as he said that
> >Buddy told him he found a bullet and this is confirmed by Buddy's Wife
> >Dorthy,whom I met in 1992 and she would not go on video-but wrote me a
> >note to this effect and being in Law Enforcement herself before-knows
> >what this means.
> >
> >I helped Al sell his "Note from Jack Ruby" as Ruby was taken to
> >Parkland Hospital and thought he was dying. Anthony Pugliese bought it
> >as well as the gun ruby used to kill Oswald. And this is in my
> >Eyewitness Video-Part-I-although some have"Rode the coat-tails" and
> >claim they are"Buddies" too--only to say Al does not know what he is
> >talking about.
> >
>
> Why should we care that Maddox thinks the note means WHEN WE CAN READ
> IT FOR OURSELVES?
John, do not be deceived on this point. Al never say's what Mark
is claiming. Fact check everything this man say's before you accept
anything. Watch his video. Not only is Mark misrepresenting Al Maddox,
he is misrepresenting his own video.
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Denis Morissette
Who told Bowles and Rose that Walthers found a bone fragment? Did Posner
asked Rose himself what he knows? What exactly did Bowles tell Posner?
What did Rose say in the undated interview?
Mark Oakes
> On 3 Aug 2001 19:52:38 -0500, realjf...@hotmail.com (Mark Oakes)
> wrote:
>
> >drei...@aol.com (Dave Reitzes) wrote in message news:<20010728080105...@ng-cm1.aol.com>...
> >> For .John, re: your Walthers/bullet factoid Web page:
> >>
> >> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/slug.htm
> >>
> >
> >
> >If it comes down to believing Posner or Deputy Al Maddox, a personal
> >friend of mine for 10 years, I am all the way with Al as he said that
> >Buddy told him he found a bullet and this is confirmed by Buddy's Wife
> >Dorthy,whom I met in 1992 and she would not go on video-but wrote me a
> >note to this effect and being in Law Enforcement herself before-knows
> >what this means.
> >
> >I helped Al sell his "Note from Jack Ruby" as Ruby was taken to
> >Parkland Hospital and thought he was dying. Anthony Pugliese bought it
> >as well as the gun ruby used to kill Oswald. And this is in my
> >Eyewitness Video-Part-I-although some have"Rode the coat-tails" and
> >claim they are"Buddies" too--only to say Al does not know what he is
> >talking about.
> >
>
> Why should we care that Maddox thinks the note means WHEN WE CAN READ
> IT FOR OURSELVES?
>
>
> >When in fact on Video he said that,"ruby wrote it was a conspiracy and
> >that his Motive WAS to silence Oswald."
>
>
> No, the note says that Ruby was framed by a conspiracy with the claim
> that his motive was to silence Oswald.
>
latter-date"---If he was not saying somthing. After all Maddox Knew Ruby
on a personal basis-and we did not. I showed the note to 2-Psychiatrist's
who said they thought he was saying that his motive was to shut him up.
They both said that the Comma seperated a seperate statement of,"I'm being
framed for the Assassination"--or else they say he would of said,"AND"
that my motive--
And of course the phone call to Barney Baker-before he wacked Oswald-and
the story of Billy Grammer add a lot to Ruby shooting Oswald. And I cannot
remember the Officer's name who said,"Ruby STOPPED sweating when he told
him that it looks like it is going to be the Electric chair for you."
Mark
Greg Jaynes
Mark Oakes <realjf...@hotmail.com
> > Why should we care that Maddox thinks the note means WHEN WE CAN READ
> > IT FOR OURSELVES?
> >
> >
> > >When in fact on Video he said that,"ruby wrote it was a conspiracy and
> > >that his Motive WAS to silence Oswald."
On your part III video, you got him to say what you wanted
by putting the words in his mouth. Al say's something about
Ruby claiming there was a conspiracy in the note and you
prompt him by saying and "my motive was to silence Oswald"
Then Al say's back the very words you just told him to say:
"My motive was to silence Oswald." You cant' tell someone
what to say, then claim you are quoting them.
> > No, the note says that Ruby was framed by a conspiracy with the claim
> > that his motive was to silence Oswald.
> >
> > Then why write,"I know you will think I'm crazy but keep this note for a
> latter-date"---If he was not saying somthing.
Whatever the answer to that question is, is not related to YOUR
interpretation of the half of a sentence in question.
> After all Maddox Knew Ruby
> on a personal basis-and we did not.
Meaning?
> I showed the note to 2-Psychiatrist's
> who said they thought he was saying that his motive was to shut him up.
I don't believe you showed this note to two psychiatrists. The last time I
heard you make this type of appeal to authority, you were saying you
showed it to an English teacher.
> They both said that the Comma seperated a seperate statement of,"I'm being
> framed for the Assassination"--or else they say he would of said,"AND"
> that my motive--
Both of 'em, huh?
Respectfully,
Greg Jaynes
Denis Morissette
What if Walthers had found the bullet only on November 23? Walthers
returned to the location on November with Allan Sweat. Was Sweat asked
about that search?