On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 3:20:08 PM UTC-5, bigdog wrote:
> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 2:42:09 PM UTC-5, David Von Pein wrote:
> > JOHN CORBETT (BIGDOG) SAID:
> >
> > You could look at any one of those pieces and you could find a reasonable
> > explanation that doesn't include Oswald being the assassin but there is no
> > conceivable way all that evidence would coincidentally line up against him
> > if he were actually innocent. But that [won't] stop the anybody-but-Oswald
> > crowd. They will go down that list of evidence and reach for the least
> > likely of possible explanations because the most likely one invariably
> > points to his guilt.
> >
> > I have no doubt by the time this posts, one or more of the conspiracy
> > hobbyists will have posted a rebuttal in which they do exactly what I said
> > they always do. Dismiss each piece of evidence individually rather than
> > looking at the body of evidence as a whole.
> >
> >
> > DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
> >
> > **Ding! Ding! Ding!** Bigdog wins the jackpot prize!
> >
> > Actually, the discussion linked below with our dear CT friend Ben Holmes
> > started many days before I posted this "Bugliosi Quotes" thread here at
> > aaj, but the point brought up by John Corbett above is still correct and
> > valid anyway --- i.e., CTers will "ISOLATE" the evidence until the cows
> > come home. Let's just watch as a conspiracy fantasist attempts to isolate
> > every single one of Vince Bugliosi's "53 Reasons":
> >
> >
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2017/01/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1227.html
>
> Just once I would like to see a conspiracy hobbyist at least attempt to
> present a complete scenario of the shooting that explains all of the
> available evidence rather than try to explain it away. They can offer
> alternative explanations for each and every piece of evidence in isolation
> but I would like to see them put together a complete scenario that
> incorporates all those alternative explanations. I would like to see that
> but I would also like to see a winning Powerball ticket in my hands. I'm
> not sure which of these wishes has the longer odds.
Typical of your self congratulatory style. By giving a complete
scenario it would give you the opportunity to potshot that scenario, which
is always easier than making the scenario, and also giving you the chance
to congratulate yourself for your wonderful analysis. Sadly, the whole
thing would take too long to write down only for you to potshot it and
begin an argument, but I have given you as much of it that exists up to
now, so you can put it together. I WILL give you a quick scenario though,
with the statement that there are many fill-ins for the gaps, if asked.
For political reasons as well as wealth and just plain hate, a number
of men got together and found that they all had the same goal, that of
removing JFK from the presidency and installing someone who would be more
happy with their goals. By feeling each other out and then contacting
others who felt similarly, they put together a group of about 20 people
that decided to perform a coup, taking out JFK and installing LBJ. There
were a few main movers, but also men from the Secret Service and men from
the FBI included in the group. As well, there were a couple from the CIA,
who also contacted some from the Mafia. The intent was to station
shooters around a good location in a city they chose, where there was a
good 'patsy' to take the blame for the whole murder and die soon after so
that he couldn't be made to talk or convince anyone that he was telling
the truth that he was a 'patsy'.
It was decided that using the power of the White House resources, they
could quickly cover up their tracks and make it seem that all was done by
the 'lone nut' patsy. They decided that since they had to use multiple
shooters to be sure of killing the target, they would have to get the body
to a military installation so they could control the autopsy and results,
which would be demanded in a murder case. Best to get the body back to
Washington where they knew the territory. A location was chosen for the
killing near where the 'patsy' worked, and all the protections they could
remove from the presidential limousine were dealt with and ordered away.
The route was established that would take the limo near to the 'patsy's
location. The local police were also ordered to keep back from the limo
with their motorcycles.
The killing went off as planned, and the limousine was taken to Parkland
hospital, where JFK was pronounced dead. 5 people saw a bullet hole in
the forward windshield of the limo, and a driver got it out of there
before it became an object of conversation.
Before all this a lookalike for the patsy was going around doing
various suspicious things to appear to be either planning something, or
staying in a bad fame of mind politically. Most of that preparation was
not used in the end.
After the shooting many people that worked in the TSBD saw or were told
what had happened out on the street, where JFK had been shot. A
motorcycle cop went inside and found Roy Truly, a supervisor in the TSBD
and they went to go upstairs to find the shooter on the upper floor.
Oswald the patsy had been convinced with some story or other to bring
in his MC rifle, and he had done that using a paper bag he quickly made
from brown paper. He did that because he didn't want to get caught doing
his own work during working hours. He hid the rifle on the 6th floor and
told the person that had convinced him to bring it in where it was.
A small group of 3 people snuck into the TSBD at about 12:25pm,
consisting of Mac Wallace (LBJs hit man) and a native Indian name Loy
Factor (who fired the MC rifle), and a woman named Ruth Ann Martinez who
handled a walkie-talkie to signal other shooters when it was time to fire.
That allowed the many shots to sound like less shots by coordinating them.
The 3 people quickly left the 6th floor and went down the back stairs
before anyone had gotten away from looking out the windows at the murder
scene outside. They made it to the ground floor, and left through ha door
to the loading dock behind the TSBD.
At Parkland hospital after JFK was cleaned up and put into a Bronze
casket, there as a argument that almost came to gunfire when the SS wanted
to remove the body, and the Dallas Medical Examiner rightfully wanted to
body to stay and be autopsied at Parkland. The SS won and they stole the
body and the limousine away to Washington DC, though the limo was a murder
scene and shouldn't have left the Dallas area. All by plan.
On the plane going back to Washington, at some point probably early in
the flight or even before Starting off while LBJ was being given the oath,
the body was removed from the Bronze casket which had been put in the rear
of the plane near the galley. The body was placed in a shipping casket
the military used to move bodies from Vietnam, etc. The best possibility
for that operation was to tell one or more of the FBI or SS agents present
to help move the body to another casket so that they could fool the press
which would be hanging on Jackie every minute. The Bronze casket was now
empty. During that flight back to Washington, there was much
communication between AF1 and the ground (W.H.) about how to proceed from
when they landed in Washington. They mentioned using helicopters to move
the body to a military hospital.
During the time from Parkland and up until arrival at Bethesda, the
wounds to JFK were mainly a large hole in the BOH a bit to the right rear,
and a throat wound entry. Also an upper back wound that wasn't seen at
Parkland.
When they got to Washington, they moved the Bronze casket (now empty)
off the plane at the rear port side into a scissors lift, which took some
of the family, Jackie and the Bronze casket to the ground and it was put
into a hearse. A motorcade was formed of family and agents, and they set
off for Bethesda hospital as a slow pace.
In the meantime, a forklift was taking the shipping casket with the
body out f the exit door next to the galley on the starboard side of the
plane, which aa dark and everyone was concentrating on the casket out
front and the scissors lift taking it down.
After the motorcade left the airport, a helicopter was brought and the
shipping casket with the body was flown to Bethesda which had a helipad to
land the helicopter. A hearse picked up the shipping casket and brought
it to the Bethesda morgue loading dock behind the building. It was now
6:35pm when a marine sergeant and his squad of men were there for the
arrival of the ambulance that brought the shipping casket. Doctor Humes
and Boswell were waiting on the loading dock for the casket to arrive.
They quickly went inside with the shipping casket and took out the body of
JFK, which was seen to be him, and they laid it on the table.
While a few witnesses stayed in the gallery, Humes and Boswell began
their first priority which was to find any bullets of fragments that had
been left in the body, and get rid of them before any agents got there.
It appears from the terribly messy and large tracheostomy that they also
dug around in the neck for the bullet that entered the neck and made the
messy wound there. Their search included taking out the brain to examine
for bullet tracks.
At a certain point in the clandestine work, they realized there were a
few of the navy staff in the gallery and they kicked them out. Also
during that time, they expanded the wound that was at the right rear of
the head, and expanded it to go around the right side and some of the top
of the head. The only person that stayed was Tom Robinson of Gawler's
Funeral Home.
The schedule for the autopsy was for 8:00pm. No work before that was
proper. And Humes made a few casual jokes to cover up the indications
that they had been at the body already before the autopsy. At 8:00pm the
gallery was full of witnesses including a few admirals and generals.
The autopsy began at 8:00pm and at about 8:30pm Pierre Finck arrived
and basically took charge, since he was the only pathologist that was
experienced enough in autopsies including bullet cases He was also a Wound
Ballistics expert. Finck was brought in by Humes, who recognized that he
and Boswell didn't have what it took to do an autopsy this important
correctly.
Before the autopsy, Humes was called by a Dr. Robert Livingston, who
said he told Humes about there being a tracheostomy done over a bullet
entry wound in the throat. As well, Humes had conversations on the phone
with Dr. Perry at Parkland hospital about the same thing DURING the
autopsy.
During the autopsy there were 2 FBI agents that were observing, and at
one point they heard ALL the prosectors make the point that "There's NO
EXIT" from the body. This conclusion was to be borne out nearer the end
of the autopsy.
Early on an X-ray Technician state that he had seen a bullet fall from
the back of JFK when he raised the body for an X-ray. This is in doubt
because of arguments that some folks have made. One thing it does is
begin the suspicion that the bullet was what they call a 'short shot'
where a bullet for various reasons doesn't have the energy to go far into
a body, it goes only a short way. A metal probe and a finger were used to
probe the upper back wound and they determine that it was only about an
inch or so in depth. This was borne out nearer the end of the autopsy.
As the autopsy proceeded, there were orders from the gallery that kept
interrupting Humes, who was nominally in charge, and they came from
Admiral Burkley, the president's person physician. Most of his comments
were to shorten the autopsy and skip various procedures. At one point
they had removed all the organs and the full autopsy team saw the
verification of the 'short shot' when they saw that in the body there was
the pleura and right lung, both bruised, but having NO tear or puncture,
and NO path beyond that point of an inch or so into the body. It was
proof that the bullet from the upper back wound did NOT go past that point
in the body, and therefore it could not come out the throat wound as some
WC lawyers later tried to suggest. It was called the 'single bullet'
theory, but what they saw in the body made that impossible.
The autopsy team were finished and the Gawler's team took over and
began the job of making the body look presentable for a funeral. From
this work Tom Robinson was asked what wounds he had seen in the body, and
he stated that there was the large hole in the BOH about the size of an
orange, and a wound in the back and wound in the forehead/temple are that
was about a 1/4th inch in diameter. He also saw the throat wound.
Since the full autopsy team saw the proof of there being a 'short
shot' in the pleura and the bullet not going past that point, it was at
first strange that Humes who went home and wrote up the Autopsy Report
(AR) and said that the bullet that has stopped at the pleura had actually
gone on somehow and went out the throat wound. However he never dissected
that path, and the AR says as much. As well, Humes also left out
mentioning the wound in the forehead/temple area, which was probably the
kill shot. That wound had been seen by a number of autopsy team members,
including Finck. These serious errors on the part of Humes and his
description of a completely false situation with the back wound bullet
make it clear that he was ordered to say what the did in the AR. He would
never take the initiative to lie in an autopsy as important as this on his
own. As well, the other prosectors also signed off on the AR, so that the
orders to lie went farther than just humes. Those lies were to follow
them wherever they went in trials and such.
The public continued to complain that proper investigation of the whole
murder wasn't done properly, and the government to try and shut them up,
kept ordering some 'experts' to look at the evidence and make a determination.
The evidence consisted of testimony and photos and X-rays, and of the
X-rays and photos, the men who took them commented that many were missing.
From the most heinous crime of the century the evidence was missing!
What the medical experts had to say was missing the important thing of
seeing inside the body what the autopsy tam members saw, and they didn't
hear what the Navy staff had to say. These lacks put them in a position
of having no input to the errors and problems and proofs from the autopsy.
All of the above is based on cites and links from official files for
the most part. Many will no doubt deny many parts of the above, but most
of it can be proven from the official record. To find the truth in this
case, the ARRB files are the single most important resource for anyone
looking into the murder. I'm sure there will be things forgotten in the
above, but I can fill in most things if asked.
Chris