Did Bullet CE399 Deposit "Too Many Fragments" Inside John Connally's Body?
David Von Pein
STRETCHER BULLET (CE399) COULD NOT HAVE POSSIBLY DEPOSITED ALL OF THE
FRAGMENTS THAT WERE SEEN INSIDE GOVERNOR JOHN CONNALLY'S BODY ON
NOVEMBER 22, 1963.
ARE THOSE CONSPIRACISTS CORRECT?
HARDLY.....
=======================================================
Warren Commission Exhibit #CE399 (the "Stretcher Bullet" found by
Darrell Tomlinson inside Parkland Hospital prior to 2:00 PM on the
afternoon of November 22nd, 1963) has been a major focus of
controversy since JFK's murder in Dallas.
Conspiracy advocates claim that the bullet's missing grains of lead
(which totalled approximately 2.2 grains, when an "average"/"median"
weight of an unfired WCC/MC 6.5mm bullet like CE399 is used as a
comparison) are less than the weight of the bullet fragments that were
discovered inside the body of Texas Governor John B. Connally on
11/22/63.
But is this a reasonable conclusion for anyone to come to? In other
words, did Governor Connally really have MORE than approximately 2.2
grains of bullet lead/fragments inside his body prior to being
operated on by Parkland physicians on November 22nd?
Well, let's examine the official record concerning that important
question.....
With respect to Connally's wrist injury, there is the following Warren
Commission testimony from the doctor at Dallas' Parkland Hospital who
was in charge of that particular wound (Dr. Charles F. Gregory):
ARLEN SPECTER -- "Will you describe, as specifically as you can, what
those metallic fragments are by way of size and shape, sir?"
DR. CHARLES GREGORY -- "I would identify these fragments as varying
from five-tenths of a millimeter in diameter to approximately two
millimeters in diameter. And each fragment is no more than a half
millimeter in thickness. They would represent, in lay terms,
flakes...flakes of metal."
MR. SPECTER -- "What would your estimate be as to their weight in
total?"
DR. GREGORY -- "I would estimate that they would be weighed in
micrograms, which is {a} very small amount of weight. I don't know how
to reduce it to ordinary equivalents for you. It is the kind of
weighing that requires a micro-adjustable scale; which means that it
is something less than the weight of a postage stamp."
MR. SPECTER (Later in Gregory's testimony session) -- "For the purpose
of this consideration, I am interested to know whether the metal which
you found in the wrist was of sufficient size so that the bullet which
passed through the wrist could not have emerged virtually completely
intact or with 158 grains intact, or whether the portions of the
metallic fragments were so small that that would be consistent with
having virtually the entire 6.5-millimeter bullet emerge?"
DR. GREGORY -- "Well, considering the small volume of metal as seen by
X-ray, and the very small dimensions of the metal which was recovered,
I think several such fragments could have been flaked off of a total
missile mass without reducing its volume greatly."
~~~~~~
Regarding Governor Connally's chest injuries:
ARLEN SPECTER -- "Was any metallic substance from the bullet left in
the thoracic cage as a result of the passage of the bullet through the
Governor's body?"
DR. ROBERT SHAW -- "No. We saw no evidence of any metallic material in
the X-ray that we had of the chest, and we found none during the
operation."
~~~~~~
Regarding Connally's superficial thigh wound:
DR. CHARLES GREGORY -- "A fragment of metal, again microscopic,
measuring about five-tenths of a millimeter by two millimeters, lies
just beneath the skin, about a half-inch on the medial aspect of the
thigh."
ARLEN SPECTER -- "What is your best estimate of the weight of that
metallic fragment?"
DR. GREGORY -- "This again would be in micrograms, postage stamp
weight thereabouts. Not much more than that."
~~~~~~
In addition, we have this very interesting comment from Dr. Gregory:
DR. GREGORY -- "I think again that bullet, Exhibit 399, could very
well have struck the thigh in a reverse fashion and have shed a bit of
its lead core into the fascia immediately beneath the skin, yet never
have penetrated the thigh sufficiently so that it eventually was
dislodged and was found in the clothing.
I would like to add to that we were disconcerted by not finding a
missile at all. Here was our patient with three discernible wounds,
and no missile within him of sufficient magnitude to account for them,
and we suggested that someone ought to search his belongings and other
areas where he had been to see if it could be identified or found,
rather."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/gregory1.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/gregory2.htm
~~~~~~
Therefore, in total, we have the following "Connally Bullet Fragments
Inventory":
1.) The very small fragments removed from Governor Connally's wrist
(of microscopic "postage stamp" weight). The preoperative X-ray of
Connally's wrist (CE690) shows the fragments and reflects the very
small nature of all the fragments that were deposited by the bullet in
the wrist (remember, this is PREoperative, so all TOTAL fragments are
visible in the wrist):
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0187a.htm
CE691 (another preoperative X-ray) shows the wrist fragments from a
different angle. Again, the fragments are very small in size:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0187b.htm
2.) Zero metallic fragments discovered in Goveror Connally's chest/
thorax. CE681 is the 11/22/63 chest X-ray of JBC:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0182b.htm
3.) One extremely-tiny bullet fragment in JBC's thigh (again "postage
stamp" type of weight). CE694 shows the thigh (preoperative):
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0189a.htm
~~~~~~
In Addition:
Dr. John Lattimer did an experiment with a WCC/MC bullet (just like
CE399), whereby he squeezed the bullet in a vise to extrude approx. 2
grains of lead from the base of the missile (to match the approximate
amount of lead that was missing from CE399, which, in point of fact,
was slightly more than 2 grains).
Lattimer's two grains of Mannlicher-Carcano bullet yielded 41 separate
small, sliced fragments (any one of which looks larger than ANY of the
fragments that were deposited in John Connally's body by the bullet
that struck him on November 22, 1963).
Have a look:
http://tinypic.com/2s7vnk0.jpg
Via Dr. Lattimer's book:
"Some critics have contended that the four bullet fragments in
Governor Connally are too many to be accounted for by the two grains
of lead missing from bullet 399. In our experiments we were able to
make forty-one such fragments from the two-grain piece of lead that
extruded from our test bullet. It can safely be said, therefore, that
four fragments are by no means too many to be accounted for by the two
grains missing from bullet 399." -- J.K. Lattimer; "Kennedy And
Lincoln"; Pages 276-277
~~~~~~
Given the above evidence, which verifies beyond all reasonable doubt
that the total amount of bullet fragments that existed in all of John
Connally's body on 11/22/63 most certainly did not (and COULD NOT)
have exceeded the missing 2.2 grains of Bullet CE399, I cannot
understand why so many JFK conspiracy proponents continue to soldier
on in their efforts to prove that Bullet CE399 is a missile that could
not possibly have been inside Governor Connally based on the "Amount
Of Missing Lead" factor.
But, then too, I've never been able to figure out the (il)logic of
CTers as a whole either. So, there's nothing new there I guess. ;)
David Von Pein
January 2007
=======================================================
ADDENDUM TO THE ABOVE ARTICLE (directly related to the discussion re.
the Connally metal fragments; the following text comes from a portion
of my full-length review for Vincent Bugliosi's 2007 book on the JFK
assassination, "Reclaiming History")........
[Quoting Bugliosi]:
"In support of his position, which I concur with, that the bullet
fragments removed from Connally's wrist did not weigh more than the
2.4 grains lost from the stretcher bullet {CE399}, Gerald Posner
writes in "Case Closed" that Dr. Charles Gregory testified before the
Warren Commission that the bullet fragments he removed from Connally's
wrist were "flakes of metal" weighing "something less than the weight
of a postage stamp."
"But Dr. Gregory was not referring to the bullet fragments he removed
from Connally's wrist, which definitely were not flakes of metal, but
to the bullet fragments left in Connally's wrist, which were never
removed yet show up on X-rays." -- Vince Bugliosi; Page 441 of
"Reclaiming History's" endnotes
DVP: I'm very nearly certain that Mr. Bugliosi is incorrect re. the
above statement. Because when we look at Dr. Gregory's WC testimony
there is no question at all that when Gregory said this to WC counsel
Arlen Specter --- "I would estimate that they {the metal fragments}
would be weighed in micrograms, which is {a} very small amount of
weight. .... It is the kind of weighing that requires a micro-
adjustable scale, which means that it is something less than the
weight of a postage stamp" --- Gregory was specifically referring to
the fragments which are visible on two PRE-operative X-rays taken of
Governor Connally's wrist (CE690 and CE691).
Which means that Gregory was referring to ALL of the metal fragments
(or "flakes") that were in Connally's wrist BEFORE Gregory ever
operated on the Governor to retrieve any bullet fragments.
Via comparison, when looking at CE692 and CE693 (which are POST-
operative wrist X-rays which were taken after Connally was operated
on), it can easily be determined that Exhibits 692 and 693 depict
FEWER fragments within the X-ray than are shown in 690 and 691.
It's possible that Dr. Gregory misspoke when he said that ALL of the
fragments visible in Exhibits 690 and 691 represented only "flakes of
metal", which is positively what he said, and, as I mentioned, he was
definitely referring to the PRE-operative wrist X-rays, even though
Gregory said that he, himself, removed "two or three" of the largest
fragments from Connally's wrist, and had a chance to determine at that
time whether the term "flakes of metal" really applied to those
removed fragments.
In any event, that is what the official Warren Commission record
reveals with respect Dr. Gregory's testimony in 1964 when he was
looking directly at CE690 and CE691.
And to my (layperson's) eyes, the visible hunks of metal that can be
seen in 690 and 691 certainly don't look very big at all. Perhaps the
word "flakes" would, indeed, describe them fairly well (at least when
looking at the X-rays only).
Later in Gregory's WC testimony -- after Arlen Specter asked,
"Approximately how large were those fragments {that were removed from
Connally's wrist}, Dr. Gregory?" -- we find these words being spoken
by Gregory:
"Rather thin...their greatest dimension would probably not exceed one-
eighth of an inch. They were very small."
Another semi-important point to all of this talk about the size of
Governor Connally's wrist fragments (which is a point I don't think
Mr. Bugliosi mentions anywhere in his book) refers to a portion of Dr.
Gregory's testimony where he, in effect, is saying that ALL of the
fragments that were seen in Connally's wrist (INCLUDING THE TWO OR
THREE FRAGMENTS THAT WERE REMOVED FROM THE GOVERNOR'S WRIST) were
located during surgery "by chance", and ALL of these metal fragments
could have been left inside Connally's body without causing the
Governor further physical problems in the future.
Here is exactly what Dr. Gregory said to the Warren Commission
regarding this matter:
"We know from experience that small flakes of metal of this kind do
not ordinarily produce difficulty in the future, but that the
extensive dissection required to find them may produce...consequences
and so we choose to leave them inside unless we chance upon them. And
on this occasion, those bits of metal recovered were simply found by
chance in the course of removing necrotized material {i.e., dead
bodily tissue}."
=======================================================
Anthony Marsh
Maybe if ALL the files were released we'd have enough information to be
sure. I believe the very first photo taken of the Magic Bullet shows no
lead missing from the base.
jim....@fuse.net
>
> CE691 (another preoperative X-ray) shows the wrist fragments from a
> different angle. Again, the fragments are very small in size:
>
>
> 2.) Zero metallic fragments discovered in Goveror Connally's chest/
> thorax. CE681 is the 11/22/63 chest X-ray of JBC:
>
>
> 3.) One extremely-tiny bullet fragment in JBC's thigh (again "postage
> stamp" type of weight). CE694 shows the thigh (preoperative):
>
>
> ~~~~~~
>
> In Addition:
>
> Dr. John Lattimer did an experiment with a WCC/MC bullet (just like
> CE399), whereby he squeezed the bullet in a vise to extrude approx. 2
> grains of lead from the base of the missile (to match the approximate
> amount of lead that was missing from CE399, which, in point of fact,
> was slightly more than 2 grains).
>
> Lattimer's two grains of Mannlicher-Carcano bullet yielded 41 separate
> small, sliced fragments (any one of which looks larger than ANY of the
> fragments that were deposited in John Connally's body by the bullet
> that struck him on November 22, 1963).
>
> Have a look:
>
> http://tinypic.com/2s7vnk0.jpg
>
> Via Dr. Lattimer's book:
>
> "Some critics have contended that the four bullet fragments in
> Governor Connally are too many to be accounted for by the two grains
> of lead missing from bullet 399. In our experiments we were able to
> make forty-one such fragments from the two-grain piece of lead that
> extruded from our test bullet. It can safely be said, therefore, that
> four fragments are by no means too many to be accounted for by the two
> grains missing from bullet 399." -- J.K. Lattimer; "Kennedy And
> Lincoln"; Pages 276-277
>
David just because you repeat your misguided blather about this case, the
truth is you can't handle the truth. The truth is CE399 is a bogus piece
of "evidence." CE2011 is proof that the FBI gave the WC a document that
contained Robert Frazier's deliberate manipulation of the ballistics
evidence he said he collected and logged into the evidence record
beginning on Friday evening of 11/22/63. Let me repeat that for you. FBI
firearms expert Robert Frazier lied about the ballistics evidence he and
other FBI agents collected and listed which you and many other LNers have
chosen to ignore. Why do you continue to do this? John Hunt discovered
Frazier's handwritten notes at NARA about what he received on the Friday
evening of 11/22/63 and later. At 7:30 pm Frazier noted receiving a bullet
from Dallas. That's one bullet. Later that evening the "stretcher bullet"
found by Darrell Tomlinson and given to O.P. Wright, head of security at
Parkland Hospital who observed "that bullet had a pointed tip" who then
gave it to SSA Johnsen who flew with it back to Washington, DC where he
gave it to his boss, James Rowley, head of the Secret Service in Rowley's
office. That's two(2) bullets. Rowley and SSA Johnsen both know what the
bullet looked like because they both looked at the bullet when they
handled it. Rowley notified the FBI that he had the "stretcher bullet"
from Dallas and the FBI sent their agent Elmer Lee Todd to Rowley's office
to pick it up. Before leaving Rowley's office, Todd put his mark on that
bullet in the presence of SSA Johnsen and Rowley and put it in an
envelope, marked the envelope, and delivered the "stretcher bullet" with
the "pointed tip" to the crime lab at FBI headquarters at 9:18 or 9:20 pm
on 11/22/63. Later the FBI would give the WC a document about the
ballistics evidence which the WC called CE2011. That document which
listed what FBI firearms expert Robert Frazier stated he had collected
which the WC relied on to be truthful, contained these deliberate lies;
(1) only one bullet was submitted into evidence by Frazier on the evening
of 11/22/63 which Frazier had designated Q1-C1, which was labeled CE399 by
the WC, instead of the two bullets he had recorded receiving and (2) A
statement that on June 12, 1964 FBI agent Bardwell Odum presented CE399 to
both Tomlinson and Wright at Wright's office in Parkand Hospital and they
said it was the same bullet they had found on the stretcher. Tomlinson
said the FBI agent who showed him and Wright a bullet in Wright's office
was the head of the FBI office in Dallas, Gordon Shanklin. BTW, when
questioned about his role in the bullet presentation to Tomlinson and
Wright, Odum said he had never seen the CE399 bullet and he did not show
any bullet to anyone at anytime. Darrell Tomlinson said he distinctly
remembers Shanklin showing him and Wright a bullet but the date was not
June 12, 1964 but on the first Tuesday after the assassination, November
26, 1963. (3) the NARA CE399 has a round nose/tip and O.P. Wright said the
'stretcher bullet" that Tomlinson gave him at Parkland on 11/22/63 had a
"pointed tip". (4) the round nosed bullet labeled CE399 that Frazier sent
over to NARA and is still in their evidence collection has Frazier's mark
on it and Killian's mark on it and Cunningham's mark on it but it doesn't
have FBI Agent Elmer Lee Todd's mark on it. The CE399 bullet that the
official investigators used to make the case against Oswald is a piece of
tainted evidence and Robert Frazier and the FBI obstructed justice to get
a public opinion conviction of LOH as a lone nut assassin after Jack Ruby
had killed LHO. But you already know all this. I wonder why you continue
to choose to ignore this truth. BTW Isn't it impossible to have a single
bullet theory of the case that is true without Frazier's Q1-C1-CE399
manipulation? I didn't think so. Regards, Jim
David Von Pein
And yet the people who supposedly "planted" or "switched" the bullets
(per many a-CTer beliefs) just went right ahead and placed this
perfect, pristine, fully-intact bullet (with ZERO grains missing from
its total mass!) into the official record of the Kennedy case
anyway...even though it supposedly crashed through Connally, causing
several wounds. Right?
Is there any END to the stupidity exhibited be these so-called
"conspirators/cover-uppers"? Evidently not, huh?
Or: Did the bullet-planters just get extremely lucky that very little
metal was plucked from JBC's body?
Or: Were these bullet-planters psychic?
One of the above-mentioned scenarios has to be true if you're a CTer
who believes that CE399 wasn't inside John B. Connally on Nov. 22 ---
i.e.,
1.) The plotters could see into the future;
2.) The plotters were just very lucky;
3.) The plotters were total morons.
(#2 and #3 could go hand-in-hand. But they'd still be morons to place
a bullet into evidence with zero grains of lead missing from it.)
tomnln
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1184833814.0...@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
David Von Pein
Per many conspiracy fans, apparently the evidence was being
"controlled" by a band of total morons.
tomnln
Felons destroy evidence.
http://whokilledjfk.net/Official/CASE%20DISMISSED.htm
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
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