Wisely, LNers are quietly abandoning the Milton Jones story

[donald willis]

In particular, LNers contributing to my "Wisely, LNers are abandoning
McWatters' testimony" thread, specifically LNers with the initials SBH and
B.... Herewith is the post, mutatis mutandis" (if I have my Buckley
right), which has (only temporarily, I'm sure) silenced them:

In his affidavit, McWatters said that the man behind the woman on his
buwas the one who "had told me that president was shot in the temple".

In his testimony, McWatters then decided that "some gentleman in front of
me in a car... said 'The President... has been shot'."

Supposed witness Milton Jones provides yet a THIRD account: "[Jones]
recalled that at this time a POLICEMAN notified the driver the President
had been shot...."

The cover-up advisers seemed to have had the devil's own time re-assigning
the "president was shot in the temple" speech from Oswald (as per the
McWatters of the affidavit) to an anonymous "gentleman" to a
"policeman"--i.e., to anyone but for God's sake not Oswald!

It gets worse for the claim that Jones was on the bus with McWatters and
Oswald. To continue with Jones: The policeman in question here "told the
driver no one was to leave the bus until police officers had talked to
each passenger.... Two police officers boarded the bus and checked each
passenger to see if any were carrying firearms.... Jones estimated the bus
was held up by the police for about one hour...." (CE 2641/FBI report
4/3/63)

McWatters had a long and winding testimony, but I just re-checked it, and
I believe that nowhere does he mention police boarding the bus, talking to
passengers, and holding the bus for about an hour. That would have been a
pretty significant event, and McWatters seems to have said NOT ONE WORD
about it. Nor does he suggest that his "gentleman" was a "policeman"!

Sounds like Jones was on a later bus, if there is in fact anything at all
to his story, when perhaps the cops perhaps started fanning out around the
Dealey area.

dcw

[John McAdams]

On 26 Apr 2018 20:30:43 -0400, donald willis <dcwi...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

All this is irrelevant. McWatters identified a transfer found in
Oswald's pocket as coming from him.

But let me guess: you think McWatters lied about that.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Anthony Marsh]

As leader of the cover-up you are not trying hard enough and setting a
bad example. Wait a few hours for our alterationist to claim that the
transfer was a fake.

> .John
> -----------------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
>

[donald willis]

Only to those who look at this superficially. Jones is the guy McWatters
supposedly was thinking of when he ID'd Oswald on 11/22/63. But Jones'
story indicates that he was on a different bus, where the cops stopped the
latter to interrogate passengers--i.e., NOT the McWatters/Oswald bus.
(Read if you can McW's testimony!) Jones thus takes himself right out of
the McWatters story. Unfortunately, there was apparently no back-up
stand-in for Jones....

McWatters identified a transfer found in
> Oswald's pocket as coming from him.
>
> But let me guess: you think McWatters lied about that.
>

Wrong again. In his affidavit, McW writes that the transfer (found on the
man on his bus whom he ID'd in a lineup on 11/22/63) was "from my bus with
my punch mark". In no way do I think that's a lie. In fact, I don't
think there's one misstatement in that affidavit. Oswald was on McW's bus
from Elm St. to Marsalis, in Oak Cliff. Probably got off the bus about
1:15, without a gun!

dcw

[John McAdams]

On 27 Apr 2018 20:11:21 -0400, donald willis <dcwi...@yahoo.com>

So the cabbie lied and the landlady lied, eh?

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[Anthony Marsh]

About what? Everything? They diddn't lie that he was a man.

> .John
> -----------------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
>

[donald willis]

The transfer produced on 11/22/63 to McWatters was NOT a fake

> > .John
> > -----------------------
> > http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
> >

[donald willis]

Not satisfied that I answered that McWatters did NOT lie on 11/22, eh?
You're moving the goal posts down the field, eh? Read your Dale Myers and
you'll find that the landlady was a chronic liar, long before 1963. You
tell me if the cabbie lied when he said that Oswald was wearing two
jackets. Or was he just confused? Either way, he was hardly a reliable
witness....

dcw

[Steve BH]

If Oswald got to Marsalis St in Oak Cliff on the bus with no gun at 1:15
then he has to be superman to pick it up. He has 8 blocks to get to
Beckley for the gun, then 1.5 miles to Hardy’s shoe store on
Jefferson to look suspicious to manager Johnny Brewer. And had to do it
all in about 10 minutes. Because Brewer has been listening to the radio
and Tippit has JUST been shot and sirens are starting on Jefferson. The
theater ticket agent Oswald slips last (V Postal) is also out on the
street for the sirens, so that gets the time down pretty well.

Lay your time line out. Let’s see you make it work.


http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brewer_j.htm

[Steve BH]

Nice of you to admit that. But if Oswald took the Marsalis bus to the end
of the line in Oak Cliff there is no reaso for Oswald to have asked for a
transfer.

[donald willis]

On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 4:52:47 PM UTC-7, Steve BH wrote:
> If Oswald got to Marsalis St in Oak Cliff on the bus with no gun at 1:15
> then he has to be superman to pick it up. He has 8 blocks to get to
> Beckley for the gun, then 1.5 miles to Hardy’s shoe store

Advisory: If I don't see Oswald going to 10th & Patton, on the way to the
theatre, what makes you think that I could see him going past that shoe
store and acting furtive and drawing attention?

on
> Jefferson to look suspicious to manager Johnny Brewer. And had to do it
> all in about 10 minutes. Because Brewer has been listening to the radio
> and Tippit has JUST been shot and sirens are starting on Jefferson. The
> theater ticket agent Oswald slips last (V Postal) is also out on the
> street for the sirens, so that gets the time down pretty well.
>
> Lay your time line out. Let’s see you make it work.
>

No Tippit, no Brewer, no Postal, no problem.

And glad to see you gave up on Milton Jones at least!

dcw

[donald willis]

As I've said before, when I was traveling on buses in L.A., I would get a
transfer no matter what, even if I thought I wouldn't need to use it.
Options....

[Ace Kefford]

John, you hit the nail on the head. The buffs who want to try to "win a
point" rather than establish what actually happened deal in trivia and
evasion. They seek to nitpick while ignoring what the evidence viewed as
a whole shows. And as you note if there is some evidence even they can't
ignore, they just says it's fake evidence.

[donald willis]

Even the DPD admitted--through a follow-up transcription by Sgt.
Bowles--that the first major transcription of the DPD radio logs included
fake evidence--no quotes needed. For instance, the first transcription
handed Sgt. Hill's 1:41 transmission re "auto .38" hulls to someone else.
Bowles' transcription restored in to Hill.

There you ago--fake evidence, then real evidence, all from the DPD....

dcw

[David Von Pein]

JOHN McADAMS SAID:

McWatters identified a transfer found in Oswald's pocket as coming from
him.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Which reminds me....

Many conspiracy theorists in the past have said they think Oswald's paper
bus transfer must have been planted because there doesn't seem to be any
visible creases or folds in the transfer---which is a situation, per the
CTers, that would have been absolutely impossible if that transfer had
been in Oswald's pocket during the major scuffle that occurred in the
Texas Theater on 11/22/63.

But I think I can substantially debunk and refute that type of conspiracy
thinking as it relates to "creases" in a paper object....

I recently took some HD photos of a paper item that I have in my
collection of baseball-related memorabilia. The item in question is part
of a scorecard from a 1972 Cincinnati Reds scorebook. The scorecard is
made from very thin cardboard paper stock (about the same thickness, I
would surmise, as the bus transfer that was recovered from Lee Oswald's
pocket).

The paper/cardboard scorecard in question has multiple noticeable creases
and folds in it, but the photos I took of it recently display no folds or
creases in the picture whatsoever. It looks perfectly pristine:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4FwRYRLRNqo/Wa84pDLcgCI/AAAAAAABM5c/His_sDfkYQoM6pNMynMNFOGLB8rsyHaBACLcBGAs/s5000/Autographs-Of-13-Cincinnati-Reds-Players-Obtained-By-David-Von-Pein-At-Riverfront-Stadium-On-July-4-1972.jpg

Point being: I think it's quite possible that Lee Oswald's bus transfer
*does* have a few creases in it that were simply not captured in the
photographs that were taken of it following the assassination.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nCe6HZ05SBs/TzLzpchaq1I/AAAAAAAAEeQ/aSmqu6kcujI/s1500/Oswald-Bus-Transfer.gif

Food for (photographic) thought anyway.

[David Von Pein]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/243480929145732/permalink/1105117629648720/

[19e...@mail.com]

On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 10:38:37 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/243480929145732/permalink/1105117629648720/

McWatters is the poster boy for Wacky Witness Perceptions and The Frailty
Of Witness Testimony, but he "proves" Oswald was on the bus, so he didn't
make the Professor's cut. As you mentioned somewhere, he said he
identified Milton Jones in the line up, not Oswald. JC Price has nothing
on this clown. I'm surprised that they didn't ask him how many shots he
heard. Do we know what vault the McWatters punch was kept in? But, if
Oswald really had the transfer when he was arrested, and he DIDN'T ride
the bus, that kinda sorta proves he was working for the conspiracy, he was
taking orders, and was not just some guy being unwittingly maneuvered into
patsydom. "Here's your bus transfer. You rode the bus a couple blocks and
then took a cab."

[donald willis]

On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 7:38:37 PM UTC-7, David Von Pein wrote:
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/243480929145732/permalink/1105117629648720/

All I see are photos of a transfer. Nothing to challenge Milton Jones'
FBI report, which demonstrates that he was on a different bus.

dcw

[donald willis]

On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 11:52:40 AM UTC-7, 19e...@mail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 10:38:37 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > https://www.facebook.com/groups/243480929145732/permalink/1105117629648720/
>
> McWatters is the poster boy for Wacky Witness Perceptions and The Frailty
> Of Witness Testimony, but he "proves" Oswald was on the bus, so he didn't
> make the Professor's cut. As you mentioned somewhere, he said he
> identified Milton Jones in the line up, not Oswald. JC Price has nothing
> on this clown. I'm surprised that they didn't ask him how many shots he
> heard.

Good one!

[Mark]

On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 7:40:53 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote:
> On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 11:52:40 AM UTC-7, 19e...@mail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 10:38:37 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/243480929145732/permalink/1105117629648720/
> >
> > McWatters is the poster boy for Wacky Witness Perceptions and The Frailty
> > Of Witness Testimony, but he "proves" Oswald was on the bus, so he didn't
> > make the Professor's cut. As you mentioned somewhere, he said he
> > identified Milton Jones in the line up, not Oswald. JC Price has nothing
> > on this clown. I'm surprised that they didn't ask him how many shots he
> > heard.
>
> Good one!
>

"Good one" Donald?

You say that to the poster who constantly says just about all of us are
supporters of mass murderers?

I guess I was expecting better from you.

Have have you ever posted "bad one" when he goes off the deep end?

Mark

[19e...@mail.com]

You could learn some manners from Donald. It's too late for me, but you
still have time.

[donald willis]

On Saturday, October 20, 2018 at 3:00:11 PM UTC-7, Mark wrote:
> On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 7:40:53 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote:
> > On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 11:52:40 AM UTC-7, 19e...@mail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 10:38:37 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> > > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/243480929145732/permalink/1105117629648720/
> > >
> > > McWatters is the poster boy for Wacky Witness Perceptions and The Frailty
> > > Of Witness Testimony, but he "proves" Oswald was on the bus, so he didn't
> > > make the Professor's cut. As you mentioned somewhere, he said he
> > > identified Milton Jones in the line up, not Oswald. JC Price has nothing
> > > on this clown. I'm surprised that they didn't ask him how many shots he
> > > heard.
> >
> > Good one!
> >
> "Good one" Donald?
>
> You say that to the poster who constantly says just about all of us are
> supporters of mass murderers?
>

I see that kind of rhetoric on both sides. Bud, for instance, is I think
one of those who chastises CTers as hounding innocent men to death, or
worse. We play, he says, games with the lives of the innocent.

> I guess I was expecting better from you.

I go where I go. For instance, I sometimes hate Anthony Marsh; at other
times, I like his points.

>
> Have have you ever posted "bad one" when he goes off the deep end?
>

Is 19e in fact a "he"? And, no, I don't address every sin by every
poster, even Bud.... I have disagreed with other LNers, such as Walt
Cakebread, who also sometimes went off the deep end; in turn, he thought I
sometimes went off the deep end....

dcw