CE 399 : The Not-So-Magic-Bullet-Part 1
Gil Jesus
by Gil Jesus
The keystone of the Warren Commission's case against Lee Harvey Oswald
was what became known as "The Single Bullet Theory".
This theory (which has never been proven) was necessitated by the timing
of the shots as recorded by the Zapruder film, and the number of shells
(3) that were found in the Texas School Book Depository.
The Single Bullet Theory maintains that one shot hit JFK in the head, the
other missed the car completely striking the curb and causing a piece of
concrete or bullet to strike James Tague in the face, and the third was
"the single bullet" that was responsible for all of the non-fatal wounds
in President Kennedy and Governor Connally.
It is this bullet, Commission Exhibit No. 399, which the Commission
claimed was the one that caused all of the non-fatal wounds in both men.
The Commission reported that this bullet had been found on Governor
Connally's stretcher at Parkland Memorial Hospital.
Not only was this bullet not found on the Governor's stretcher, there is
evidence that this bullet was not fired on November 22, 1963 and had
nothing to do with the assassination of JFK or the wounding of Governor
Connally.
First, let's take a look at the discovery of the bullet.
STRETCHING THE STRETCHER BULLET
When the presidential limousine arrived at Parkland Hospital, the
Governor was taken into Trauma Room 2 (The President was taken to Trauma
Room 1) in the hospital's emergency room. After being examined by the
doctors, he was taken, on the same stretcher, to a second floor operating
room. There he was removed from the stretcher and placed on an operating
cart. An orderly, R.J.Jimison, then rolled the stretcher onto an elevator,
leaving it unattended. (WC Report, pp. 80-81)
Senior Hospital Engineer Darrell Tomlinson discovered the stretcher on
the elevator and placed it next to a stretcher located in a corridor on
the ground floor at about 1:12 PM. Despite the Commission's contention
that "a few minutes later he [Tomlinson] bumped one of the stretchers
against a wall and a bullet rolled out", Tomlinson actually left the
stretcher unattended for almost 40 minutes. He discovered the bullet
sometime between 1:45 and 1:50 PM. (Ibid., 81)
Tomlinson stated that, "I bumped the the wall and a spent cartridge or
bullet rolled out that apparently been lodged under the edge of the mat."
(WC Hearings VI, p. 130)
Tomlinson, being the person that found the bullet, was the only source of
information about its location when found. As such, he was subjected to a
series of leading questions by WC Counsel Arlen "Single Bullet Theory"
Specter. Tomlinson later told a researcher that he had been unhappy with
Specter's line of questioning. Originally certain that the bullet came
from a stretcher that had no connection to the case, Tomlinson finally
admitted that the bullet may have come from Connally's stretcher after
being hounded by Specter.
If Tomlinson was unhappy with Specter, the Commission was quite happy. It
concluded that " although Tomlinson was not certain whether the bullet
came from the Connally stretcher or an adjacent one, the Commission has
concluded that the bullet came from Governor Connally's stretcher." (Ibid.
VI, 130-34; Thompson, Six Seconds in Dallas, 205-6; WC Report, 81)
Tomlinson was certain that the bullet was on a stretcher that was not
Governor Connally's and had nothing to do with the assassination. However,
even if the only witness was uncertain, the Commission concluded on its
own and with no proof to support it, that the bullet came from Connally's
stretcher.
In the realm of American jurisprudence, this conclusion would be
laughable if the case hadn't involved a murder.
Such stupidity would have been thrown out of "Judge Judy's " courtroom
for sure !
But that's not the end of this bizarre tale--there's more !
SUBSTITUTION OF THE STRETCHER BULLET
Neither Tomlinson, nor the man he gave the bullet to, O.P. Wright,
personnel director of security at the hospital, would identify CE 399 as
the bullet found on the stretcher. In November 1966, Wright was
interviewed by researcher Josiah Thompson and told him, in the prescence
of two witnesses, that CE 399 was definitely NOT the bullet that Tomlinson
handed him. Wright procured a pointed .30 caliber bullet and told Thompson
that the bullet resembled it. (Thompson, Six Seconds in Dallas, p. 175-76)
Wright's revelation suggests that after he turned over to the Secret
Service the bullet that Tomlinson found, it was substituted for a bullet
that could be ballistically matched to Oswald's rifle.
And that Western Cartridge bullet that was fired from Oswald's rifle
after the assassination and used to replace the bullet that Tomlinson
found, became Warren Commission Exhibit 399--what I call, "the
Not-So-Magic Bullet".
The substitution of CE 399 for the stretcher bullet is more than possible
: the facts support it.
The stretcher bullet was never taken seriously by either the FBI or the
Secret Service as evidence in the case. When O.P. Wright tried to get the
FBI to come look at the bullet on the stretcher, they were uninterested.
Then he contacted a Secret Service agent who refused to view it. The
bullet was never photographed in its position of discovery. So Wright
picked it up and carried it over to SS Agent Richard Johnson, who put it
in his pocket without putting any identifying marks on it.
Apparently, none of the Federal agencies were interested in collecting
evidence at the time.
The chain of possession of this particular piece of evidence indicates
that it was the FBI, and not the Secret Service, that made the
substitution from the stretcher bullet to CE 399. The stretcher bullet
went from SA Johnson to SS Chief James Rowley, who turned it over to Elmer
Todd of the FBI who then gave it to Robert Frazier of the FBI lab. (WC
Hearings, XVIII, pp. 799-800)
Tomlinson and Wright, the only men who saw the bullet on the stretcher,
would not identify CE 399 as being that bullet.
Also, SS Chief Rowley and SA Johnson also would not identify CE 399 as
the stretcher bullet. (Ibid., XXIV, p. 412)
So here we have four witnesses within the chain of possession of the
evidence that say that CE 399 was NOT the bullet found on the stretcher at
Parkland Hospital. And yet, some time between Rowley's handing it to Todd
and Todd giving it to Frazier, the stretcher bullet became CE 399.
How do I know it was the FBI that substituted the bullet ? Because Rowley
refused to identify CE 399 as the bullet that he gave to the FBI. Rowley
wouldn't identify it because he marked the bullet before he handed it over
to Elmer Todd and CE 399 did not have his mark on it. Which means that CE
399 was NOT the bullet that he gave to the FBI. He handed the REAL
stretcher bullet to Todd.
Agent Todd received the real stretcher bullet and while this bullet was
in the possession of the FBI, because it had no bearing on the case
against Oswald, it was replaced by a bullet that had been fired from
Oswald's rifle--that bullet we now know as CE 399.
VISUAL EXAMINATION OF CE 399
The Warren Commission's "Single Bullet", CE 399. Could it have struck TWO
bones and still remain in nearly perfect condition?
How do we know that CE 399 had nothing to do with the Kennedy
assassination ? The four witnesses (Tomlinson, Wright, SA Johnson and
James Rowley) would not identify it as the "stretcher bullet" that was
given to the FBI.
Next, Robert Frazier of the FBI lab examined CE 399 and said that the
bullet did not have ANY microscopic particles from Kennedy's shirt or coat
or Connally's shirt, coat, or trousers, despite having allegedly gone
through all five garments.
(WC Hearings III, pp 428-31)
He further went on to say that had the bullet gone through coarse cloth
or leather, he would have expected to see microscopic particles of those
fabrics on the bullet. Why ? Because, ALL bullets pick up microscopic
particles from ANY fabric that they travel through and he expected to see
particles of fabric from the victim's clothing on CE 399.
But this was not the case when he examined this bullet.
What Frazier is saying here is this: based on his experience with bullets
travelling through clothing, CE 399 did not go through either Kennedy's
shirt and coat, or Connally's shirt and coat. Nor did it pass through the
Governor's trousers.
Without particles of clothing on the bullet, the only way that CE 399
could have travelled through both men was if JFK had taken his shirt and
coat off and Connally was buck naked before they were shot. And that
didn't happen.
The lack of microscopic particles of the President's clothing or Governor
Connally's clothing on CE 399 is further evidence that this bullet had
nothing to do with the assassination of President John F. Kennedy or the
wounding of Governor John B. Connally. The additional fact that four
eyewitnesses refused to identify CE 399 as the bullet found on the
stretcher at Parkland Hospital further supports my theory that CE 399 had
nothing to do with the assassination of President Kennedy and the wounding
of Governor Connally.
But that's not the only thing missing from this bullet.
There was no blood or bone particles on CE 399 when examined, despite it
allegedly having gone through two good-sized men. This bullet was alleged
to have caused seven wounds: two in Kennedy and five in Connally. It blew
out four inches of the Governor's fifth rib, pulverizing it into dust,
broke the radial bone in his right wrist and ended up in his thigh and
yet--no blood, no bone. (WC Hearings III, pp 428-31)
If the witnesses' refusal to identify CE 399 as the stretcher bullet, the
lack of microscopic particles from the victim's clothing on CE 399, and
the lack of bone or blood on CE 399 hasn't convinced the reader yet that
CE 399 had nothing to do with the assassination of JFK and the wounding of
JBC, let's consider the scientific analyses that were performed on CE 399
and the fragments removed from the vicitims and the limousine.
NO BONES ABOUT IT
In April, 1964, tests were conducted by the U.S. Army wounds ballistics
team at Edgewood Arsenal for the FBI. The team of ballistic scientists was
headed by Dr. Alfred Olivier and included Dr. Arthur Dziemian, Dr.
Frederick Light, and Dr. Joseph Dolce.
The team fired Oswald's rifle using the same lot number of Western
Cartridge Company bullets that Oswald allegedly used. They fired into the
ribs of goat carcasses and the wrists of human cadavers and were able to
reproduce the wounds of Governor Connally.
However, as the above photograph shows, the resulting distortion of the
bullet caused by the impact of striking just ONE bone was nowhere near the
amount of distortion suffered by CE 399. On the left is CE 399. CE 572 is
a pair of bullets that were fired into cotton wadding. Naturally, these
struck NO bone and suffered minimal distortion similar to CE 399. CE 853
was fired into the ribs of a goat carcass and the level of distortion is
evident. It is noticably flattened. CE 856 was fired into the wrist of a
human cadaver and its level of distortion is nothing like CE 399's. The
nose of the bullet is badly damaged, "mushrooming" back towards the base.
While CE 399 was alleged to have struck TWO bones, destroying one and
breaking the other, CE 853 and CE 856 each struck only ONE bone and yet
their distortion is much greater. How can that be ?
It can't. Beside reproducing the wounds, this test proved that CE 399
never struck bone and explained the reason why no bone fragments or traces
of blood were found on CE 399.
Dr. Dolce summed it up : "It is IMPOSSIBLE for a bullet to strike bone,
even at low velocity, and still come [out] with a perfect tip."
(Interview, "Reasonable Doubt- The Single Bullet Theory and the
Assassination of John F. Kennedy" video, 1988)
Because the test proved that CE 399 never struck bone, the test results
were not published until March 1965, a full eight months after the Warren
Commission filed its final report. After they were published, they were
classified and not released until March, 1973, nearly nine years after the
tests were conducted.
So far we've seen that the Warren Commission suppressed information that
proved that CE 399 was not the Connally stretcher bullet, that it had not
penetrated clothing or entered a human body, and finally, had not struck
bone. In suppressing this information, the Commission managed to ignore
the witnesses, the FBI ballisitcs expert and the wounds ballistics tests.
But it wasn't done ignoring yet.
Likewise, the House Select Committee on Assassinations elected to ignore
the testimony of Dr. Robert Shaw, the surgeon who operated on Governor
Connally's back, who said that the bullet that struck the Governor, "had
not struck any other objects". (meaning the President) He stated that CE
399 could not have caused all of Connally's wounds. Another of Connally's
doctors, Dr. Thomas Shires, told the committee that the governor's wounds
were probably caused by more than one bullet. (Appendix to HSCA Hearings,
VII, pg. 144, 166-67, 142-43, 104)
If the reader is not yet convinced that Warren Commission Exhibit 399 had
nothing to do with the Kennedy assassination, it should be noted that the
FBI had tests conducted in 1964 on the bullet fragments found in the
limousine, bullet fragments removed from the President's head, and bullet
fragments removed from Connally's wrist, and compared those lead fragments
with the lead core of CE 399. The results are as follows:
CE 399 AND THE CONNALLY WRIST FRAGMENTS
Bullet fragments removed from Governor Connally's wrist
Let me preface this section by saying that every manufacturer of
ammunition has his own mixture of elements when making lead. In addition,
every manufacturer uses the same mixture in every one of his bullets,
regardless of the caliber. Only by measuring those elements can Law
Enforcement investigators determine which manufacturer made a particular
bullet. In a single ammunition-type scenario, all of the elements of
recovered bullets and bullet fragments will be identical. Conversely, ANY
variation of the percentage of any one element, indicates that the bullets
and bullet fragments were made from different manufacturers.
The significance of all of this is that only one manufacturer, Western
Cartridge Company, made ammunition for the Mannlicher-Carcano, the alleged
murder weapon. Since only one manufacturer made the ammunition, all of the
bullets and bullet fragments should have the exact same percentage of each
element. Conversely, if the percentages differed even slightly, it proves
that some of the bullets or bullet fragments were not Western Cartridge
Company ammunition.
If the elements do not match ANY manufacturer's recipe, it is a very good
probability that someone melted down the lead from different bullets,
combined them and made their own "reloads". Reloading bullets isn't for
everyone. Only those with reload equipment and the skills to use that
equipment would be capable of making such bullets. If these bullets were
all reloads, it would explain why there were so few found. It would also
explain why the bullet casings found at the Tippit murder scene and the
bullets removed from his body did not match.
Having said all of that, investigators would be looking to compare CE
399, with the bullet fragments removed from Governor Connally's wrist. If
the elements were exactly the same, like a fingerprint, it would be solid
evidence that Western Cartridge ammunition hit Governor Connally in the
wrist. In addition, in this particular test, they compared CE 399 (which
they believed was manufactured by Western Cartridge Company) with the
Kennedy head fragments and the smaller fragments found in the limousine.
( To see if those fragments were made by Western Cartridge)
THE 1963 FBI SPECTROGRAPHIC TEST
On November 23, 1963, the FBI conducted a spectrographic test to measure
the 11 elements present in the recovered bullet fragments to determine if
they were related to bullets found in the TSBD and on the stretcher at
Parkland Hospital (CE 399). Under such testing, the percentage of basic
elements such as lead, copper, antimony, etc. are compared. The fragments
tested were those which had been recovered from JFK's brain during the
autopsy, from Governor Connally's wrist during his surgery, from the metal
smear on the limousine's windshield, and from under Mrs. Connally's jump
seat.
The test failed to provide clear, irrefutable proof that connected the
bullet fragments to CE 399, causing the Warren Commmission to choose not
to ask one single question of the spectrographic expert who conducted the
test.
They were simply content to report that several bullet fragments were
"similar in metallic composition", which proved nothing.
In the years following the assassination, researcher Harold Weisberg
fought hard with the government to have those results released. Government
attorneys argued that revealing the results was not in the "national
interest". In a Warren Commission document released in 1973, FBI Director
J. Edgar Hoover reported that the composition of the fragments were
"similar" and that "no significant differences were found".
However, ANY differences in composition between CE 399 and the fragments,
regardless how "significant", means that the Connally wrist shot and the
Kennedy head shot were NOT made by bullets manufactured by with Western
Cartridge Company.
Because the Spectrographic test did not prove that the fragments came
from ammunition that could only be fired from Oswald's rifle, Hoover
decided to approach the Atomic Energy Commission and ask them to do a more
advanced test: the Neutron Activation Analysis.
THE 1964 NEUTRON ACTIVATION ANALYSIS
The method used to examine the bullets and bullet fragments was the
Neutron Activation Analysis. It is a procedure whereby objects are
bombarded with nuclear radiation. The irradiated objects will display
different levels of radiation according to their chemical composition.
Each of the chemical elements composing the object will emit gamma rays,
which can be measured in amounts as small as one-billionth of a gram. Each
Western Cartridge bullet is made up of copper, lead, silver, antimony,
bismuth, zinc, and traces of other elements. In this test, however, only
silver and antimony were measured.
The results of the test for silver and antimony indicated that CE 399 did
NOT match the Connally wrist fragments.
In addition, CE 399 was compared to the Kennedy head fragments and the
limousine fragments. It matched neither.
The Kennedy head fragments contained 20% less silver and 40% less
antimony than CE 399. (FBI Results of Neutron Activation Analysis,
72-page report dated 6 May 1964, FBI papers)
Since CE 399 was a Western Cartridge round and did not match the Kennedy
head fragments, the Connally wrist fragments or the limousine fragments,
the test proved that the bullets that caused these fragments were NOT
Western Cartridge ammunition and hence, not created by CE 399.
The test was so conclusive, that the FBI did not waste their time
measuring any of the other elements.
A SEARCH FOR RELOADS
From the FBI's standpoint, they had a dilemma: the tests showed that the
bullet fragments were not Western Cartridge ammunition, so how could a
bullet that was not manufactured by Western Cartridge be fired from
Oswald's rifle?
The only way to explain it was that the rifle had fired "reloads", using
lead from several different sources. This would certainly explain the
differences in the chemical composition of the fragments.
However, the fact that reloads were used would negate Oswald's rifle as
the murder weapon to the exclusion of all others.
ANY weapon capable of firing a reload could have been the murder weapon.
Knowing this, the FBI set out to search for dealers who only sold reloads
for OSWALD'S rifle.
In March, 1964, the FBI canvassed gunshops in the Dallas-Irving area to
find out where Oswald bought his ammunition. They were not successful.
There were only two dealers who ever handled Western Cartridge 6.5
ammunition and both were certain that they never saw Oswald or sold any of
the ammunition to him.
One of the shops had moved into Dallas from Carrollton, Texas on November
1, 1963. Consequently, the other shop was the sole source from which
Oswald could have purchased the ammunition in Dallas. The owner, John
Thomas Masen, had purchased "about ten boxes....early 1963," he told the
FBI, and some of the cartridges had been reloaded with a soft hunting
bullet. (CE 2694)
This, to me is one of the truly amazing aspects of this case. Here the
FBI has a gunshop owner, the ONLY gunshop owner in the Dallas area who
sold reloads of 6.5 ammunition for the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle. They had
bullet fragments that had been taken from the limousine and from both
victims and scientific tests that indicated that those fragments had come
from reloaded bullets.
And yet, because Masen said that he didn't sell any reloads to Oswald, he
never possessed them. Truly amazing !
Although he admitted selling these bullets to individuals, the FBI never
asked him who he sold them to.
Why didn't the FBI pursue Masen as the supplier of the ammunition used in
the assassination ? If the bullets used to kill Kennedy and wound
Connally were indeed reloads, as the tests seem to indicate, then Masen
could have been the supplier to the killer or killers either directly or
indirectly maybe even have known them.
Perhaps that's what Masen meant when he told author Dick Russell, "Look,
like I told them (the FBI) back then, if there was a Minuteman situation
I'd been connected with, I couldn't have told 'em anyway. My life wouldn't
be worth a penny. Realistically, that's what it amounted to." (Russell,
The Man Who Knew Too Much, pg. 545)
He may have been an important witness. He should have been held for
questioning.
But there may have been another reason why the FBI did not pursue Masen.
He was involved in a gun-running scheme out of Fort Hood, Texas with an
FBI informant (Capt. George Nonte) to arm Cuban-exiles nationwide (under
the cover of a "Second Invasion of Cuba") until someone, somewhere,
executed the President.
More importantly, pursuing Masen would have led to the revelation that
the FBI had foreknowledge of the President's assassination and did nothing
to stop it.
Almost as amazing as this FBI suppression suppression is, the Warren
Commission did them one better by trying to explain the use of reloads by
stating that Oswald may have reloaded his own bullets. However, no
reloading equipment, empty shells, bullets, or gunpowder were ever found
among his belongings at his rooming house or the Paine residence.
It is obvious, therefore, that Oswald did not reload his own bullets.
THE 1977 NEUTRON ACTIVATION TESTS FOR THE HSCA
In September 1977, the House Select Committee on Assassinations had
another NAA test done on CE 399 and the Connally wrist fragments. Its
expert, Dr. Vincent P. Guinn of the Chemistry Department at the University
of California at Irvine, conducted the test.
Dr. Guinn found that the Connally wrist fragment contained 25% more
silver and 850% more copper than CE 399. It also contained 2400% more
sodium and 1100% more chlorine and it contained 8.1 parts per million of
aluminum, while CE 399 contained none.
Similarly, the Kennedy head fragments and the limousine fragments
contained wide disparities in their chemical composition. (HSCA Hearings,
I, p.538)
In fact, when Dr. Guinn tested a bullet allegedly from the same lot of
manufactured bullets as was allegedly fired by Oswald's rifle, not only
did the bullet from the same lot not match, the chemical composition of
pieces of the same bullet did not match. Dr. Guinn was forced to admit
that "some Mannlicher-Carcano bullets cannot be distinguished from each
other." (Ibid. pp. 547-49)
Aparently, the good doctor never considered that he too, might be testing
reloads !
And yet, the lack of uniformity of these specimens was such that it led
him to conclude that all of the fragments came from two bullets. He stated
that it was "highly probable" that the fragments removed from Governor
Connally's wrist had come from CE 399, and that three fragments found on
the floor of the limousine matched those removed from the President's
brain.
In addition, he said that the two bullets from which the fragments came
were both Mannlicher-Carcano bullets. (Ibid. pp. 528-33)
But Dr. Guinn only tested two of the thirty Kennedy head fragments and he
did not test the large copper fragment found in the limousine.
How could he have reached this conclusion if the bullets could not be
"distinguished from each other" ?
SUBSTITUTION OF THE ORIGINAL CONNALLY WRIST FRAGMENTS
However, a closer look at Dr. Guinn's test show numerous deficiencies
that contest all of his central conclusions. There were evidentiary
problems. The wrist fragments that were originally tested in 1964 had
vanished by the time Guinn began his work for the HSCA. (I HSCA, p. 562)
The fragments he received from the National Archives were NOT the same
fragments tested in 1964. The description of the 1964 fragments did not
match the fragments he received in 1977.
When he weighed the fragments, not one of the fragments that he was given
matched the weight on record of a 1964 fragment.
Guinn told the HSCA that the Archives assured him that the fragments they
gave him were "the only bullet-lead fragments from this case still present
in the Archives". Guinn stated: "Presumably [the missing fragments from
1964] those are in existence somewhere..but where they are, I have no
idea." (Ibid.)
He also told the committee that the wrist fragments would not have been
destroyed by testing in 1964.
To this day, no one knows what happened to the original Connally wrist
fragments. (Ibid.)
The implication here is obvious: Sometime between the completion of the
original test in 1964 and the time Dr. Guinn received the fragments from
the National Archives in 1977, the 1964 wrist fragments were substituted
with fragments from CE 399.
In a tape recorded interview in the hallway after his testimony to HSCA,
Dr. Guinn posed this very possibility of substitution in explaining why
two different tests resulted in two different conclusions. He said,
"Possibly they would take a bullet, take out a few little pieces and put
it in the container, and say, 'This is what came out of Connally's wrist'.
And naturally, if you compare it with 399, it will look alike....I have no
control over these things." ( Partial transcript of interview made by
David Lifton)
Which explains why Dr. Guinn concluded that the Connally wrist fragments
and CE 399 were a match despite the indication that the fragments that he
tested in 1977 were not the original Connally wrist fragments.
He had no control over his conclusions.
Xray of Governor Connally's wrist showing the bullet fragments that
remained.
There is one more point that needs to be made about the Connally wrist
fragments. Total weight of the fragments that were removed and the
fragments that remained in the Governor's wrist after he passed away in
1993, when combined, exceeded the total weight of the manufactured bullet.
The bullet intact weighed no more than 161 grains and CE 399 weighed 158.6
grains (when received by the FBI) for a maximum loss of 2.4 grains.
According to a Parkland Hospital nurse, three fragments of .5 grains each
were removed from the Governor's wrist. In addition, lead was removed from
the base of CE 399 for both the Spectrographic Test and the Neutron
Activation Tests in 1964. And as one can see by the above X-ray of the
Governor's wrist, the bullet left large enough fragments in the wrist that
it can be seen with the naked eye. Those three fragments of .5 grains each
were the easiest to lose. Those were the original 1964 fragments that were
replaced with other fragments whose weight was less and would not exceed
the maximum weight for CE 399.
These lighter fragments were the fragments that Dr. Guinn was given by
the National Archives in 1977. Again, the agency who had control of this
evidence before the Archives was the FBI, who I believe made the
substitution sometime after the first NAA test.
THE GOVERNOR HAS NO CLOTHES
After the assassination, President Lyndon B. Johnson took an action
which adds weight to my theory that CE 399 had NOTHING to do with the
Kennedy assassination. He sent out Governor Connally's clothes to be
cleaned.
One needs to ask the question: Why did he do this ? Johnson may have had
good reason to send those clothes out to be cleaned.
On Connally's clothes was the answer to two questions: Was there more
than one gunman ? And were JFK and JBC hit by the same bullet ?
I find it hard to believe that Connally's clothes would have been sent
out to be cleaned had they possessed evidence that they had been
penetrated by a copper-jacketed bullet like those capable of being fired
by Oswald's rifle. Kennedy's clothing, which contained copper particles
around the holes in the back, was NOT sent out for cleaning.
It is for this reason that I submit to the reader that the reason
Governor Connally's clothes were sent out to be cleaned was because after
the FBI examined them, they found NO particles of copper around the bullet
holes.
"Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor, Defend the
fatherless, Plead for the widow." Isaiah 1:17 (New King James Version)
SnorkinMan
Excellent post. Very thought provoking. I've often wondered about
Tomlinson and the WC. It seems he was certain the bullet was not on the
Governor's stretcher, yet he was ignored. Do you have direct
quotes/testimony from him (and the other 3 folks you mentioned) stating
that CE 399 was not the bullet they saw?
Darren Hughes
<< Subject: CE 399 : The Not-So-Magic-Bullet-Part 1
From: gjj...@aol.com (Gil Jesus)
Date: Wed, Mar 26, 2003 3:26 AM
Message-id: <20030325190313...@mb-me.aol.com>
Robert Harris
Gil,
Every witness who handled that stretcher bullet before the FBI got
ahold of it, either denied that it was CE-399 or refused to identify
it as such - that includes two members of the Secret Service.
But that does not prove that one bullet did not pass through Kennedy
and Connally. It only proves that the FBI would go to any length to
pin the crime on Oswald.
The infamous "Z" trajectory from Kennedy to Connally becomes a
perfect, straight line, from a window behind the fire escape on the
Daltex building.
Robert Harris
Chad Zimmerman
I apologize for not having read the entire post, but I was deterred to read
Tomlinson's WC testimony. There close to a dozen or more times that
Tomlinson could NOT take a stand on which stretcher the bullet fell from.
So, to say that he stated matter of factly that it was NOT Connally's
stretcher is a BIG STRETCH.
Tomlinson testimony:
page 131of the involved WC volume reads in part:
Mr. Spector. Now, Mr. Tomlinson, are you sure that it was stretcher "A" that
you took out of the elevator and not stretcher "B"?
Mr. Tomlinson. Well, really, I can't be positive, just to be perfectly
honest about it, I can't be positive, because I really didn't pay that much
attention to it. The stretcher was on the elevator and I pushed it off of
there and I believe we made one or two calls up before I straightened out
the stretcher up against the wall.
------------------------------------------------------
Page 132 reads in part:
Mr. Spector. What did you tell the Secret Service man about which stretcher
you took off of the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson. I told him that I was not sure, and I am not- I'm not sure of
it, but as I said, I would be going against the oath whcih I took a while
ago, because I am definitely not sure.
Mr. Spector. What did you tell the Secret Service man about shich stretcher
you took off of the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson. I told him that I was not sure, and I am not- I'm not sure of
it, but as I said, I would be going against the oath which I took a while
ago, because I am definitely not sure.
Mr. Spector. Do you remember if you told the Secret Service man which
stretcher you thought you took off of the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson. Well, we talked about taking a stretcher off of the elevator,
but then when it comes down to an oath, I wouldn't say for sure, I really
don't remember.
.....
Mr. Spector. you say you can't really take an oath today to be sure whether
it was stretcher A or stretcher B that you took off the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson. Well, today or any other day, I'm just not sure of it,
whether it was A or B that I took off.
Mr. Spector. Well, has your recollection always been the same about the
situation, that is, today, and when you talked to the Secret Service man and
when you talked to the FBI man?
Mr. Tomlinson. Yes; I told him that I wasn't sure.
----------------------------------------------------------
from page 133
Mr. Spector. You think, then, that this could have been either, you took out
of the elevator as you sit here at the moement, or you just can't be sure?
Mr. Tomlinson. It could be, but I can't be positive or positively sure- I
think it was A, but I am not sure.
Now, Gil. Are YOU sure that HE was sure?
Chad
"Gil Jesus" <gjj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030325190313...@mb-me.aol.com...
Gil Jesus
interviewed Tomlinson, Tomlinson was absolutely adamant that CE 399 was
NOT the bullet he found on the stretcher.
Tomlinson gave in to harrassing questioning by Specter, the father of the
"Single Bullet Theory" himself and was not happy with the way Specter
questioned him.
If CE 399 was the bullet that was found on the stretcher, why wouldn't
the SS agents who handled it identify it as the bullet they turned over to
the FBI ?
There are MANY problems with this piece of evidence, the least of which
is whether or not it was found on a stretcher.
This bullet had nothing to do with the assassination.
Chad Zimmerman
" Originally certain that the bullet came
from a stretcher that had no connection to the case, Tomlinson finally
admitted that the bullet may have come from Connally's stretcher after
being hounded by Specter."
That sure doesn't seem the case when you look at the actual testimony. That
is what the subject of my post was, not the identification of the bullet,
Gil. Sorry if, somehow, I misled you.
Chad
"Gil Jesus" <gjj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030326185519...@mb-fn.aol.com...
Chad Zimmerman
" Tomlinson was certain that the bullet was on a stretcher that was not
Governor Connally's and had nothing to do with the assassination. However,
even if the only witness was uncertain, the Commission concluded on its
own and with no proof to support it, that the bullet came from Connally's
stretcher.
In the realm of American jurisprudence, this conclusion would be
laughable if the case hadn't involved a murder.
Such stupidity would have been thrown out of "Judge Judy's " courtroom
for sure !"
Now, Gil, how many times did Tomlinson say that he couldn't be sure which
one it came from? He may have 'thought' that it came from a certain
stretcher, but he also states that he told the SS and FBI that he wasn't
sure which one and that if a prior report specified one stretcher over the
other, then the interviewing agent came to that determination and not him.
Chad
"Gil Jesus" <gjj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030326185519...@mb-fn.aol.com...
Alan
Testimony Of Darrell C. Tomlinson
The testimony of Darrell C. Tomlinson was taken on March 20, 1964, at
Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Arlen Specter,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. Specter.
Mr. Tomlinson, this is Miss Oliver, and she is the court reporter.
Will you stand up and hold up your right hand and take the oath,
please?
Do you solemnly swear that in the taking of your deposition in these
proceedings, you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I do.
Mr. Specter.
Would you state your full name, for the record?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Darrell Carlisle Tomlinson.
Mr. Specter.
Mr. Tomlinson, the purpose of this deposition proceeding is to take
your deposition in connection with an inquiry made by the President's
Commission in connection with the Assassination of President Kennedy
to determine from you all the facts, if any, which you know concerning
the events surrounding the assassination of President Kennedy and any
treatment which was given at Parkland Memorial Hospital to either
President Kennedy or Governor Connally, or anything that happened to
any physical objects connected with either one of those men.
First of all, did you receive a letter advising you that the
Commission was interested in having one of its staff lawyers take your
deposition concerning this matter?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes.
Mr. Specter.
And did that letter include in it a copy of the Executive order
creating the Commission?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes.
Mr. Specter.
And a copy of the congressional resolution concerning the creation of
the President's Commission?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes.
Mr. Specter.
And a copy of the resolution governing questioning of witnesses by
members of the Commission's staff?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes.
Mr. Specter.
And are you willing today for me to ask you some questions about what
you observed or know about this matter?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Specter.
And it is satisfactory with you to proceed today rather than to have 3
days from the time you got the letter, which was yesterday?
Mr. Tomlinson.
It's immaterial.
Mr. Specter.
It's immaterial to you?
Mr. Tomlinson.
It's immaterial---it's at your convenience.
Mr. Specter.
That's fine. We appreciate that, Mr. Tomlinson.
The reason is, that you have the right to a 3-day notice, but if it
doesn't matter to you, then we would like to go ahead and take your
information today.
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes.
Mr. Specter.
We call that a waiver under the law, if it is all right with you to
talk with you today, then I want to go ahead and do that; is that all
right?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes.
Mr. Specter.
Well, where are you employed, Mr. Tomlinson?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Parkland Hospital.
Mr. Specter.
And what is your capacity?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I am classed as the senior engineer.
Mr. Specter.
And what duties are involved in general?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I'm in charge of the powerplant here at the hospital, which takes care
of the heating and air- conditioning services for the building.
Mr. Specter.
Will you describe the general physical layout relating to the
emergency area and how you get from the emergency area, say, to the
second Floor emergency operating rooms of Parkland Memorial Hospital?
Mr. Tomlinson.
You mean just the general lay?
Mr. Specter.
Yes, sir; please.
Mr. Tomlinson.
Well, we have one elevator that goes from the basement to the third
floor, that's what we call the emergency elevator. It's in the south
section of the hospital and that would be your most direct route to go
from the ground floor, which emergency is on, to the operating rooms
on two.
Mr. Specter.
Now, did you have anything to do with that elevator on November 22,
sometime around the noon hour?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes.
Mr. Specter.
And what did you have to do with that elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Well, we received a call in the engineer's office, the chief
engineer's office, and he requested someone to operate the elevator.
Mr. Specter.
Was there any problem with the elevator with respect to a mechanical
difficulty of any sort?
Mr. Tomlinson.
No, sir; it was an ordinary type elevator, and if it isn't keyed off
it. will stop every time somebody pushes a button, and they preferred
it to go only to the second floor and to the ground floor unless
otherwise instructed by the administrator.
Mr. Specter.
So, what were you to do with this elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Key it off the ground, between ground and second floor.
Mr. Specter.
So that you would operate it in that way?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes; make a manual operation out of it.
Mr. Specter.
When you came upon that elevator, what time was it, to the best of
your recollection?
Mr. Tomlinson.
It was around 1 o'clock.
Mr. Specter.
Was there anything on the elevator at that time?
Mr. Tomlinson.
There was one stretcher.
Mr. Specter.
And describe the appearance of that stretcher, if you will, please.
Mr. Tomlinson.
I believe that stretcher had sheets on it and had a white covering on
the pad.
Mr. Specter.
What did you say about the covering on the pad, excuse me?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I believe it was a white sheet that was on the pad.
Mr. Specter.
And was there anything else on that?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I don't believe there was on that one, I'm not sure, but I don't
believe there was.
Mr. Specter.
What, if anything, did you do with that stretcher?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I took it off of the elevator and put it over against the south wall.
Mr. Specter.
On what floor?
Mr. Tomlinson.
The ground floor.
Mr. Specter.
Was there any other stretcher in that area at that time?
Mr. Tomlinson.
There was a stretcher about 2 feet from the wall already there.
(Indicating on drawing to which the witness referred.)
Mr. Specter.
Now, you have just pointed to a drawing which you have made of this
situation, have you not, while we were talking a few minutes before
the court reporter started to take down your testimony?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Specter.
Now, would you mark in ink with my pen the stretcher which you pushed
off of the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I think that it was this one right here (indicating).
Mr. Specter.
Will you draw the outline of it in ink and mark an "A" right in the
center of that?
(Witness complied with request of Counsel Specter.)
Mr. Specter.
Now, would you mark in ink the position of the stretcher which was
already on the first floor?
Mr. Tomlinson.
This was the ground floor.
Mr. Specter.
Pardon me, on the ground floor? Is there a different designation for
the first floor?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes.
Mr. Specter.
Where is the first floor?
Mr. Tomlinson.
One above the ground. We have basement, ground, first, second, and
third on that elevator.
Mr. Specter.
What floor was Governor Connally taken to, if you know?
Mr. Tomlinson.
He was on two, he was in the operating rooms up on two. That's our
surgical suites up there.
Mr. Specter.
And what level is the emergency entrance of the hospital on?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Well, it's the ground floor---it's there at the back of the hospital,
you see, it's built on the incline there.
Mr. Specter.
And the elevator which you found in this area was on the ground floor?
Mr. Tomlinson.
The elevator?
Mr. Specter.
The stretcher.
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes.
Mr. Specter.
Will you mark with a "B" the stretcher which was present at the time
you pushed stretcher "A" off of the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
(Witness complied with the request of Counsel Specter.) I believe
that's it.
Mr. Specter.
Now, what, if anything, did you later observe as to stretcher
Mr. Tomlinson.
Well, sir; I don't recall how long it had been exactly, but an intern
or doctor, I didn't know which, came to use the men's room there in
the elevator lobby.
Mr. Specter.
Where is the men's room located on this diagram?
Mr. Tomlinson.
It would be right there (indicating) beside the "B" stretcher.
Mr. Specter.
Would you draw in ink there the outline of that room in a general way?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Well, I really don't know.
Mr. Specter.
And would you mark that with the letter "C"?
(Witness complied with request of Counsel Specter.)
Mr. Specter.
That's fine. What happened when that gentleman came to use the men's
room?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Well, he pushed the stretcher out from the wall to get in, and then
when he came out he just walked off and didn't push the stretcher back
up against the wall, so I pushed it out of the way where we would have
clear area in front of the elevator.
Mr. Specter.
And where did you push it to?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I pushed it back up against the wall.
Mr. Specter.
What, if anything, happened then?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I BUMPED THE WALL AND A SPENT CARTRIDGE OR BULLET ROLLED OUT THAT
APPARENTLY HAD BEEN LODGED UNDER THE EDGE OF THE MAT.
Mr. Specter.
And that was from which stretcher?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I believe that it was "B".
Mr. Specter.
And what was on "B", if you recall; if anything?
Mr. Tomlinson.
WELL, AT ONE END THEY HAD ONE OR TWO SHEETS ROLLED UP; I DIDN'T
EXAMINE THEM. THEY WERE BLOODY. THEY WERE ROLLED UP ON THE EAST END OF
IT AND THERE WERE A FEW SURGICAL INSTRUMENTS ON, THE OPPOSITE END AND
A STERILE PACK OR SO.
Mr. Specter.
A sterile what?
Mr. Tomlinson.
A sterile pack.
Mr. Specter.
What do you mean by that?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Like gauze or something like that.
Mr. Specter.
Was there an alcohol sponge?
Mr. Tomlinson.
There could have been.
Mr. Specter.
Was there a roll of 1-inch tape?
Mr. Tomlinson.
No; I don't think so.
Mr. Specter.
Were there any empty packets from hypodermic needles?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Well, now, it had some paper there but I don't know what they came
from.
Mr. Specter.
Now, Mr. Tomlinson, are you sure that it was stretcher "A" that you
took out of the elevator and not stretcher "B"?
Mr. Tomlinson.
WELL, REALLY, I CAN'T BE POSITIVE, JUST TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST ABOUT
IT, I CAN'T BE POSITIVE, BECAUSE I REALLY DIDN'T PAY THAT MUCH
ATTENTION TO IT. THE STRETCHER WAS ON THE ELEVATOR AND I PUSHED IT OFF
OF THERE AND I BELIEVE WE MADE ONE OR TWO CALLS UP BEFORE I
STRAIGHTENED OUT THE STRETCHER UP AGAINST THE WALL.
Mr. Specter.
When you say "one or two calls," what do you mean by that?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Went to pick up the technician from the second floor to bring him down
to the ground floor to get blood.
Mr. Specter.
And when you say before you straightened the stretcher up, what do you
mean by that?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Well, we Just rolled them out of the way where we had some room on the
elevator-that's a small elevator.
Mr. Specter.
So, when you rolled them out of the elevator, when you rolled the
stretcher out of the elevator, did you place it against the wall at
'that time?
Mr. Tomlinson.
No.
Mr. Specter.
Were both of these stretchers constructed in the same way?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Similar--yes.
Mr. Specter.
Will you describe the appearance of the stretcher with reference to
what it was made of and how many shelves it had, and that sort of
thing?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Well, it's made of tubed steel with a fiat iron frame on the top where
you lay the patient and it has one shelf down between the four wheels.
Mr. Specter.
Does it have any bumpers on it?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes, and it has rubber bumpers.
Mr. Specter.
Does it have any rail to keep the patient on?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes; they have the rails on the side made of tubed steel. The majority
of them have those.
Mr. Specter.
Now, just before we started this deposition, before I placed you under
oath and before the court reporter started to take down my questions
and your answers, you and I had a brief talk, did we not?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes.
Mr. Specter.
And we discussed in a general way the information which you have
testified about, did we not?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Specter.
And at the time we started our discussion, it was your recollection at
that point that the bullet came off of stretcher A, was it not?
Mr. Tomlinson.
B.
Mr. Specter.
Pardon me, stretcher B, but it was stretcher A that you took off of
the elevator.
Mr. Tomlinson.
I believe that's right.
Mr. Specter.
But there is no question but that at the time we started our
discussion a few minutes before the court reporter started to take it
down, that your best recollection was that it was stretcher A which
came off of the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes, I believe that was it--yes.
Mr. Specter.
Have you been interviewed about this matter by any other Federal
representative?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes.
Mr. Specter.
Who interviewed you about it?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I don't remember the name of either one of them, but one was the FBI
man and one was the Secret Service man.
Mr. Specter.
How many times did the FBI interview you?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Once.
Mr. Specter.
How many times did the Secret Service interview you?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Once.
Mr. Specter.
When did the FBI interview you?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I believe they were the first to do it.
Mr. Specter.
Approximately when was that?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I think that was the latter part of November.
Mr. Specter.
And when did the Secret Service interview you?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Approximately a week later, the first part of December.
Mr. Specter.
Now, do you recollect what the FBI man asked you about?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Just about where I found the bullet.
Mr. Specter.
Did he ask you about these stretchers?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Well, he asked me about the stretchers, yes, just about the same thing
we've gone over here.
Mr. Specter.
What did the Secret Service man ask you about?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Approximately the same thing, only, we've gone into more detail here.
Mr. Specter.
What did you tell the Secret Service man about which stretcher you
took off of the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I TOLD HIM THAT I WAS NOT SURE, AND I AM NOT--I'M NOT SURE OF IT, BUT
AS I SAID, I WOULD BE GOING AGAINST THE OATH WHICH I TOOK A WHILE AGO,
BECAUSE I AM DEFINITELY NOT SURE.
Mr. Specter.
Do you remember if you told the Secret Service man which stretcher you
thought you took off of the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Well, we talked about taking a stretcher off of the elevator, but then
when it comes down on an oath, I wouldn't say for sure, I really don't
remember.
Mr. Specter.
And do you recollect whether or not you told the Secret Service man
which stretcher you took off of the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
What do you mean?
Mr. Specter.
You say you can't really take an oath today to be sure whether it was
stretcher A or stretcher B that you took off the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
WELL, TODAY OR ANY OTHER DAY, I'M JUST NOT SURE OF IT, WHETHER IT WAS
A OR B THAT I TOOK OFF.
Mr. Specter.
Well, has your recollection always been the same about the situation,
that is, today, and when you talked to the Secret Service man and when
you talked to the FBI man?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes; I told him that I wasn't sure.
Mr. Specter.
So, what you told the Secret Service man was just about the same thing
as you have told me today?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Specter.
When I first started to ask you about this, Mr. Tomlinson, you
initially identified stretcher A as the one which came off of the
elevator car?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes; I think it's just like that
Mr. Specter.
And, then, when
Mr. Tomlinson.
(interrupting). Here's the deal--I rolled that thing off, we got a
call, and went to second floor, picked the man up and brought him
down. He went on over across, to clear out of the emergency area, but
across from it, and picked up two pints of, I believe it was, blood.
He told me to hold for him, he had to get right back to the operating
room, so I held, and the minute he hit there, we took off for the
second floor and I came. back to the ground. Now, I don't know how
many people went through that---I don't know how many people hit
them--I don't know anything about what could have happened to them in
between the time I was gone, and I made several trips before I
discovered the bullet on the end of it there.
Mr. Specter.
You think, then, that this could have been either, you took out of the
elevator as you sit here at the moment, or you just can't be sure?
Mr. Tomlinson.
It could be, but I can't be positive or positively sure I think it was
A, but I'm not sure.
Mr. Specter.
That you took off of the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes.
Mr. Specter.
Now, before I started to ask you questions under oath, which have been
taken down here, I told you, did I not, that the Secret Service man
wrote a report where he said that the bullet was found on the
stretcher which you took off of the elevator---I called that to your
attention, didn't I?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes; you told me that.
Mr. Specter.
Now, after I tell you that, does that have any effect on refreshing
your recollection of what you told the Secret Service man?
Mr. Tomlinson.
No it really doesn't---it really doesn't.
Mr. Specter.
So, would it be a fair summary to say that when I first started to
talk to you about it, your first view was that the stretcher you took
off of the elevator was stretcher A, and then I told you that the
Secret Service man said it was---that you had said the stretcher you
took off of the elevator was the one that you found the bullet off,
and when we talked about the whole matter and talked over the entire
situation, you really can't be completely sure about which stretcher
you took off of the elevator, because you didn't push the stretcher
that you took off of the elevator right against the wall at first?
Mr. Tomlinson.
That's right.
Mr. Specter.
And, there was a lot of confusion that day, which is what you told me
before?
Mr. Tomlinson.
ABSOLUTELY. AND NOW, HONESTLY, I DON'T REMEMBER TELLING HIM
DEFINITELY-I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT IT, AND I TOLD HIM THAT IT COULD
HAVE BEEN. NOW, HE MIGHT HAVE DRAWED HIS OWN CONCLUSION ON THAT.
Mr. Specter.
You told the Secret Service agent that you didn't know where---
Mr. Tomlinson.
(interrupting). He asked me if it could have been brought down from
the second floor.
Mr. Specter.
You got the stretcher from where the bullet came from, whether it was
brought down from the second floor?
Mr. Tomlinson.
It could have been--I'm not sure whether it was A I took off.
Mr. Specter.
But did you tell the Secret Service man which one you thought it was
you took off of the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I'm not clear on that---whether I absolutely made a positive statement
to that effect.
Mr. Specter.
You told him that it could have been B you took off of the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
That's right.
Mr. Specter.
But, you don't remember whether you told him it was A you took off of
the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
I think it was A---I'm not really sure.
Mr. Specter.
Which did you tell the Secret Service agent--that you thought it was A
that you took off of the elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Really, I couldn't be real truthful in saying I told him this or that.
Mr. Specter.
You just don't remember for sure whether you told him you thought it
was A or not?
Mr. Tomlinson.
No, sir; I really don't remember. I'm not accustomed to being
questioned by the Secret Service and the FBI and by you and they are
writing down everything, I mean.
Mr. Specter.
That's all right. I understand exactly what you are saying and I
appreciate it and I really just want to get your best recollection.
We understand it isn't easy to remember all that went on, on a day
like November 22d, and that a man's recollection is not perfect like
every other part of a man, but I want you to tell me just what you
remember, and that's the best you can do today, and I appreciate that,
and so does the President's Commission, and that's all we can ask a
man.
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes, I'm going to tell you all I can, and I'm not going to tell you
something I can't lay down and sleep at night with either.
Mr. Specter.
Do you know where the stretcher came from that you found on the
elevator?
Mr. Tomlinson.
No, sir; I do not. It could have come from two, it could have come
from three, it could have come from some other place.
Mr. Specter.
You didn't see anybody put it there?
Mr. Tomlinson.
No, sir--it was on the elevator when I got there. There wasn't anyone
on the elevator at the time when I keyed it off.
Mr. Specter.
And when you say "keyed it off," you mean?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Put it in manual operation.
Mr. Specter.
Mr. Tomlinson, does it make any difference to you whether you sign
this deposition at the end or not?
Mr. Tomlinson.
No.
Mr. Specter.
We very much appreciate your coming, Mr. Tomlinson. Thank you very
much. Those are all the questions I have.
Mr. Tomlinson.
All right. Thank you.
Mr. Specter.
Off the record.
(Discussion between counsel and the witness Tomlinson regarding a
proposed exhibit.)
Mr. Specter.
On the record.
Now that the deposition of Mr. Tomlinson has been concluded, I am
having the paper marked as Tomlinson Exhibit No. 2.
(Instrument marked by the reporter as Tomlinson Exhibit No. 2, for
identification.)
Mr. Specter.
May the record show that Mr. Tomlinson is present, and will you
identify this paper marked Tomlinson Exhibit No. 2 as the one which
contains the diagram of the emergency room and the letters A and B of
the stretchers we have been discussing?
Mr. Tomlinson.
That's just the elevator lobby in emergency.
Mr. Specter.
And this is the diagram which you drew for us?
Mr. Tomlinson.
Yes.
Mr. Specter.
That's all, and thank you very much.
Source:
Warren Commission Hearings, Vol. VI, p. 128.
John Hill
times did Tomlinson have to answer the same question before Specter would
give it up?
--
John Hill (joisa)
"Alan" <marc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fa1104d0.03032...@posting.google.com...
marika
> Specter surely does go on and on and on about the same thing. How many
> times did Tomlinson have to answer the same question before Specter would
> give it up?
Til specter woke up. He is just like the employee who fell asleep on
the keyboard who gave me a memo to help edit. He submitted a whole
page of L's
R2JUDGE
>From: "John Hill" jo...@ev1.net
>Date: 4/12/03 8:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3e97...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>
>
>Specter surely does go on and on and on about the same thing. How many
>times did Tomlinson have to answer the same question before Specter would
>give it up?
>--
>John Hill (joisa)
***Until clarity had been attained.
Clarity was that Tomlinson was not sure
which was A and which was B.
***Ron Judge
John Hill (joisa)
I caught on to that a lot sooner than Specter did.
John Hill (joisa)
Chad Zimmerman
"John Hill (joisa)" <jo...@ev1.net> wrote in message news:3ea5...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
John Hill
"R2JUDGE" <r2j...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030412173240...@mb-cq.aol.com...
That was obvious quite early on to me. Perhaps Specter required hearing it a
dozen times for it to sink in.
--
John Hill (joisa)
>
> ***Ron Judge
>
John Hill
news:3ea5...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
The old chastize for over compensating....and for undercompensating. How'd
you'd like to be scrutinized as he has. It's easy to talk about it when
you where different shoes.
It's never enough, is it?
Sure it is. In this case it's too much.
--
John Hill (joisa)