Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 2
Dave Reitzes
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/e446ae528b2808ac?dmode=source
<QUOTE ON>-------------------------------------
From: "Dr Truth" <bobka...@comcast.net>
Newsgroups: alt.assassination.jfk
Subject: MARTIN, please explain the changes in Judyth's story
Date: 30 Aug 2004 22:42:46 -0400
Organization: Comcast Online
Lines: 2236
Approved: jmca...@shell.core.com
Message-ID: <MwNYc.337043$a24.143345@attbi_s03>
Return-Path: <new...@attbi.com>
X-Original-To: jmca...@panix.com
Delivered-To: jmca...@shell.core.com
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.84.1.2
X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.84.1.2
X-Trace: 30 Aug 2004 21:59:07 -0500, 166.84.1.2
Martin please explain the changes in Judyth's story since 1999. Thank
you.
SEE BELOW:
Judyth's story leaked on December 23, 1999:
Judyth’s Story
The Plot
1. In 1963, the unsuccessful CIA-Mafia plotting to kill Castro – top-
secret until exposed by the Church Committee in 1975 --was directly linked
with the JFK assassination conspiracy.
If Plan A -- killing Castro by October 25, 1963 – failed, the same group
of conspirators – Mafia, CIA rogue agents, Cuban exiles, backed by Texas
money -- would go to Plan B: killing Kennedy. This is the first time
Oswald has been tied into the kill-Castro conspiracy. Ironically, CIA
stonewalling of the Warren Commission was almost certainly conducted to
prevent its relationship with the Mafia from being exposed. The
assassination cover-up was thus joined by high officials in the CIA who
may not themselves have participated in the assassination.
2. Lee, a CIA operative (not an “agent”), was groomed to look like a
disaffected American for eventual use in Cuba. His defection was faked for
this reason alone. Upon his return from Russia, the CIA arranged for Lee
to take a job in Dallas at a firm that made maps of the Cuban terrain. His
assignment involved identifying the location of safe houses and collecting
names of trusted contacts inside Cuba.
3. When Lee was ordered to move to New Orleans, he met Judyth by accident
(or maybe not) at the central Post Office. They clicked immediately –
despite the fact that he was married and she was to be married in a matter
of days. Lee arranged for both of them to be hired on the same day by the
Reily Coffee Company, owned by a staunch right-winger, who knew he was not
hiring ordinary workers. Lee would interview the Cuban women that cycled
thru Reily’s as part of his fact-gathering mission. Judyth, who was
assistant to the manager, covered for this activity and for his daily
absences from work, making sure to punch him out at or around 5:30PM when
he was no longer there, which was quite often. He also arranged for them
to have apartments within walking distance of each other, and for her to
meet David Ferrie, also a “cancer researcher.”
4. Judyth had already achieved a reputation as a child prodigy in cancer
research. Her mentor, Dr. Alton Ochsner, of the famed Ochsner Cancer
Clinic in New Orleans, had also set up the labs in Ferrie’s and
Sherman’s homes. Ochsner, a rabid right-winger, had overseen Judyth’s
work from the age of 16, with funding coming from government medical
facilities, principally Walter Reed. She even worked at Roswell Park
under a National Science Foundation grant on research into “substances
which cause… cancer to become most deadly” (as reported by The
Bradenton Herald, Sept. 5, 1961). Now she was to use this training to
develop ways of speeding tumor growth. Her job was to culture lung cancer
cells in the Ferrie-Sherman labs for eventual transport to medical
contacts in Cuba who could arrange for their injection into Castro.
The lung cancer material she says she created would appear to kill him
“naturally,” as a heavy cigar smoker might be expected to develop lung
cancer. The seeming naturalness of his death would avert a possible
confrontation with Russia that could ignite World War III. She really
believed this was a duty, considering the horrifying alternative. This is
a completely new account of the how those labs were used.
Lee and Judyth actually liked the Kennedys -- and so opposed Plan B -- but
they never thought events would progress that far. In private, Ferrie
told Lee and Judyth that he also opposed the assassination. He was
putting on an act for Shaw, who represented Texas money in N.O.
6. Lee’s trip to Mexico City in October 1963 involved transporting the
cell cultures to a contact who would bring them into Cuba. He was ordered
to make the trip by his CIA-handler, Mr. B, who Lee came to believe was
David Atlee Phillips, but who, through some impressive bit of research,
Judyth now believes was Frank Bender, one alias of Gerry Droller who was
posted to Mexico City at the same time as Phillips.
The material had been tested on a human guinea pig -- the real reason for
the trip to Clinton. Lee and Judyth were heartsick over the decision to
treat a prisoner/mental patient but were powerless to stop this trial and
could not back out of the plot or their lives would be worth nothing.
Anyway, there was still time to get to Castro. Lee’s supposed attempt
to taint CORE through association with a Communist is a ridiculous notion.
There was a delay involved before things were set up in the hospital in
nearby Jackson, so they waited. Lee was pro-civil rights and got on line
to prove they would register him though he lived out of the district. They
didn’t and he quietly walked back to the car. He did nothing to attract
attention to himself as a Communist.
The serum in which the cancer cells were placed included a virus that
knocks out the immune system, thus enhancing the strength of the cancer
cells. This material – from the kidney’s of sick monkeys -- is now the
subject of a new book on the origin of AIDS. Judyth knew of its deadly
potential and wrote letters to have its use stopped at the same time as
she was working with it.
7. Lee was left holding the bag – i.e., no one was there to meet him in
Mexico City to take the material off his hands. He desperately tried to
get into Cuba himself, where his knowledge of the language, the terrain,
safe houses, and contacts could still be used – he hoped. Indeed,
initially, he expected to make the entire trip himself. He was frantic
because the material had a limited life span outside a lab, but the
conspirators had already turned to Plan B without telling him. Lee knew
enough not to ask for an explanation and he was never offered one.
8. Lee staged his own arrest in New Orleans to establish his false
identity as pro-Castro. This staged event was based on an incident he had
read about in a local newspaper months earlier. The story concerned a
narcotics agent who provoked a street fight to build his resume as a bad
guy.
9. Judyth saw Lee sign out guns from Guy Banister's weapons storeroom on
the third floor of 544 Camp Street in New Orleans. Lee also kept his own
guns there and he was an excellent shot. She never saw or heard of a
Mannlicher-Carcano. Lee and Ferrie did train Cubans at Lake Pontchartrain
and there was film and she saw it, very likely the same film that Robert
Tanenbaum of the HSCA saw but which is now missing.
10. She personally met other key plotters, including Banister, Shaw, and
Marcello, though, as a girl of 19 or 20, she was often treated as if she
were wallpaper. Wallpaper with ears and the ability to do cutting edge
cancer research.
11. Jack Ruby worked with Banister and Marcello’s organization in
gun-running operations. While Judyth was in Lee’s company, she met Ruby
twice, , in May and June of 1963, when he visited New Orleans, once at
Ferrie's apartment. She only knew him as “Sparky” Rubenstein. When
Lee was killed, she did not know that Jack Ruby and Sparky Rubenstein were
the same man. Anna Lewis will testify to having seen Ruby and Oswald
together in New Orleans. Jack Ruby was shown the lab and told about
cancer cell injections. Before he died of cancer, he insisted he was
injected, but no one took him seriously. His mind was shot and they just
assumed it was incoherent babbling.
12. Ruby and Ferrie both knew Lee when he was just 15 years old. Lee
spurned Ferrie’s advances as well as Ruby’s attempts to recruit him
into the Mob. Lee’s contacts with the Mob came via his uncle and his
mother, and he was trusted by Mob figures, up to and including Marcello.
It was Marcello who told Ruby to look after the boy when they moved to
Texas.
13. HL Hunt wanted those associated with the labs to be killed, or so they
believed based on a message to Shaw. Ferrie and Lee both found ways to
make themselves appear useful. They both destroyed evidence that might
lead the plotters to Judyth, who was living in Florida at the time of the
assassination. Ferrie arranged for about 14 back-channel phone calls to
Lee in Dallas, the last on November 20. Lee told Judyth that he made
several unsuccessful attempts to stop the assassination, including calling
death threats to the FBI.
14. They all understood that his grooming in Russia and activities in New
Orleans made him the perfect patsy as early as the third week of August.
Oswald actively embraced the role to get closer to the inner circle of the
conspiracy in Dallas . He played up his connections to Marcello, revealed
his marksmanship, and exaggerated a grudge against Connally to get further
in. He figured he was a dead man if tried to break with the conspirators.
He and Judyth even made plans for an escape and rendezvous in Mexico.
Judyth tells of Ferrie sobbing uncontrollably during phone calls with him
because it had all gone so wrong.
15. Lee told Judyth, on November 20th, of his plan to fire a warning shot
at the motorcade hoping to alert the Secret Service to the attempt on
JFK’s life. If he did fire a warning shot– and at least 5 witnesses
reported a bullet hitting the pavement behind the President’s limo -- it
went unheeded by the sleepy Secret Service agents. The "street shot"
bullet was presumably never found, unless that is what is being picked up
by the "Mystery FBI Man" in photos of Dallas Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walthers
and Officer J.W. Foster.
The Love Story
1. Judyth portrays Oswald as a much more intelligent and charming man than
we have seen in any previous accounts. She knows he was a wife- beater,
but says Lee never raised a hand to her. In fact, she describes no fights
of any kind. Lee told her that Marina mercilessly denigrated him. He
admitted to a mother-wife problem, which they often discussed, and she
believes the abuse stopped (it would be interesting to ask Marina if this
was so).
2. Lee and Judyth, who were both married, became lovers in the summer.
While in the company of Oswald, Judyth sometimes posed as Marina, which
was possible because of their physical resemblance and Judyth’s ability
to speak Russian. Judyth’s husband was out of town most of their
married life in New Orleans.
3. In testimony, Marina said Lee was always home at night, but she never
said at what time. In fact, as Anna Lewis attests, Lee and Judyth usually
kept company, often with her and her husband, David, until 8 or 8:30 PM.
Anna even took a call from Marina at the restaurant where she waitressed
and they would hang out at after work. Marina wanted to know if Lee was
there with another woman.
In a taped statement, Anna Lewis said: - David Ferrie and Lee Harvey
Oswald knew each other. - She knew Carlos Marcello. - Banister “had guns
in his closet for Lee Harvey Oswald, and when they started talking about
the assassination, Banister told Lee Harvey Oswald to remove his guns out
of his closet.” - Her husband was told to “keep his mouth shut.” -
Lee was going to fire a warning shot if he had the opportunity (Judyth
explains that she asked Anna how she knew this, but that Anna became
fearful and would not answer.) - Jack Ruby “knew them, all of them…was
at the club I mentioned on Bourbon St. [The 500 Club]. That was the
meeting place for all of ‘em, and that’s where Mr. Carlos Marcello’s
office was…” - “Marina called one night at the restaurant to find
out if Lee Oswald was there with another woman, and I told her…I don’t
watch any of my customers that good.” - Presented with Marina’s claims
that Lee was home at night, she replies that “He wasn’t home. He was
always out with us.”
WHICH THEN CHANGED TO:
Deadly Alliance
By Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D.
OUTLINE OF THE CONSPIRACY
nd Plan B: The Plot to Kill Castro and the Assassination of FK In 1963,
the unsuccessful CIA-Mafia alliance to kill Castro -- top- secret until
exposed by the Church Committee in 1975 -- was directly linked to the JFK
assassination conspiracy. “Plan A” called for Castro to be killed
through the use of a biological weapon that would make his death appear
natural. If he could not be killed by October 25, 1963, the same group of
conspirators would go to “Plan B”: killing Kennedy. This is the first
account of the JFK assassination that links it directly (in an either-or
fashion) to the plot to kill Castro, and the first time Lee Harvey Oswald
has ever been tied to the plot to kill Castro. What this means is that the
JFK assassination plot was an offshoot of a larger secret alliance that is
already established fact. It is, therefore, not necessary to believe in
the existence of a separate conspiracy theory. Note: Judyth’s knowledge
of events in New Orleans is often first- hand. What she knows or believes
about events in Dallas comes from conversations with Oswald or David
Ferrie.
_____________________________________________________________________
Judyth is Recruited: To April 1963 ? By the age of 15, Judyth achieved a
reputation as a science whiz kid, having invented a new way to extract
magnesium from seawater. ? Her real passion, though, was cancer research.
Col. Philip Doyle set up a special lab for Judyth at her high school
(Manatee High, in Florida), and introduced her to CIA asset and biological
weapons expert, Dr. Canute Michaelson, who provided financial support for
her initial work. ? Her appearance at an international science fair
brought her to the attention of other medical figures with military or
intelligence backgrounds, as well as top officials of the American Cancer
Society: Dr.Harold Diehl and Dr. Alton Ochsner (of the famed Ochsner
Cancer Clinic in New Orleans). Ochsner was Judyth’s principal
behind-the-scenes mentor through her late teen years. ? Judyth’s lab was
expanded and she received research materials from doctors at the Walter
Reed Army Institute of Research, Eli Lilly, Oak Ridge, et al. Evidence:
A letter dated 9-2-60 from Dr. David Jacobus at Walter Reed, making
specific reference to chemicals supplied her and promising more. ? She was
REQUIRED to take a loyalty oath., and, while still in high school, was
required to learn conversational Russian at a local junior college from a
Dr. Concevitch. Evidence: A yellowed mailing envelope with the addressee,
Concevitch. ? Her work came to the attention of Florida Senator George
Smathers, a close friend of JFK’s, who encouraged her to write to the
President and volunteer to put her talents to work in the service of her
country. Evidence: A reply from the White House. (While not very
dramatic, she soon received fresh supplies, as Sen. Smathers told her she
would.) ? She spent the summer after high school graduation working under
a National Science Foundation grant at Roswell Park in Buffalo, NY, the
world’s oldest cancer research center. Her studies centered on
"substances which cause cancer to become most deadly." Source: The
Bradenton Herald, 9-6-61. ? Of the 60-plus students working under a grant,
she was the only member of the group chosen by Dr. George Moore, head of
Roswell Park, to work directly with him -- and she was the only one forced
to stay at the local YWCA. She was, in essence, “kidnapped” from an
off-site apartment she tried to rent and returned to the Y. Evidence:
BROCHURES, YWCA RECEIPT, AND FORMS. Copious newspaper clippings on her
achievements. Corroborating testimony: Judyth recently located DR.ROB
STROM, who also exhibited at the science fair. He REMEMBERED HER.
THOUGH HE ALSO RECEIVED ATTENTION FROM MANY FRONTS, HE TOLD HER HIS
LEFT-WING VIEWS MADE HIM A POOR CANDIDATE FOR CIA RECRUITMENT.
Who Was Dr. Alton Ochsner?
Along with Judyth herself, Ochsner is the primary new figure to emerge in
this account of Oswald’s stay in New Orleans. Notes ? Ocshner was
friends with Clay Shaw, who was unsuccessfully prosecuted by New Orleans
D.A. Jim Garrison for conspiring to assassinate JFK. Ochsner was director
of International House at the same time Clay Shaw was a managing director
(1961-1962). At different times, he and Shaw headed this organization AND
the International Trade Mart. The two ORGANIZATIONS merged some years
later. ? Ochsner’s biographers quote him as fearing that he would be
indicted by Garrison (John Wilds and Ira Harkey, Surgeon of the South) ?
Ochsner was also friends with “Wild Bill” Donovan, head of the OSS,
the prescursor to the CIA. Both were elected officials of the American
Cancer Society in 1949. ? Ochsner founded the virulently anti-Communist
Information Council of the Americas (INCA), which later figured heavily
into the activities of both Judyth and Lee. ? Author Thomas Karnes
(Tropical Enterprise) describes Ochsner as a consultant to the US Air
Force “on the medical side of subversive matters.”
_____________________________________________________________________
Lee is Groomed: To April 1963
? Lee Oswald, a CIA operative, was groomed to look like a disaffected
American for eventual use in Cuba. This was the primary reason for his
fake defection to Russia.
? Lee told Judyth that he gave the Soviets information that he believed
allowed them to shoot (REMOVE HYPHEN)down the secret U-2 spy plane (he had
been stationed at the U-2 base in Atsugi, Japan). Lee said that the
military wanted to derail an upcoming summit in which it was feared that
President Eisenhower, declining mentally, might be bested by Krushchev.
Note: Downed U-2 Pilot Gary Powers has stated his belief that Oswald had
the information needed to bring him down.
? Upon his return from Russia, the CIA arranged for Lee to take a job at a
Dallas graphic arts firm, Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall, that was involved in
highly classified work for the government, including the creation of
detailed maps of Cuba. His CIA assignment involved LEARNING THE TERRAIN
AND identifying the location of safe houses. Lee was not yet part of the
CIA-Mafia plot in a concrete way, but would be linked to it in the spring
of 1963.
_____________________________________________________________________
Judyth and Lee
? When Lee was ordered to move to New Orleans in April 1963, he met Judyth
by accident (or maybe not) at the new post office. They hit it off
immediately, despite the fact that he was married and she was to be
married in a matter of days.
? Lee arranged for both of them to INTERVIEWED (MAY 9) AND TO be hired
(MAY 10) by the Reily Coffee Company. He ALSO got them apartments within
walking distance of each other. Evidence: Judyth’s W-2 form and pay
stubs verify her contemporaneous employment AT THE SAME ADDRESS with
Oswald. (REILY’S OPERATED AT VARIOUS LOCATIONS). Evidence: Want ads for
both positions in the New Orleans Times- Picayune (to create a “cover”
of normalcy). EVIDENCE: JUDYTH’S CANCELED CHECKS SHOWING RENT PAYMENTS
TO “SUSIE HANOVER” BEGAN IN MAY 1963 AT 1032 MARENGO ST. RENT WAS
PAID THROUGH FIRST WEEK OF MAY TO “MRS. WEBBER” FOR PRIOR RESIDENCE AT
A ST. CHARLES STREET. ADDRESS. Note: Both William Reily and Judyth’s
boss, William Monaghan, were active members of INCA. Monaghan, though
nominally the company’s VICE PRESIDENT AND credit manager, was actually
ex-FBI and an expert in industrial security.
? At Reily’s, Lee interviewed Cuban women, refugees, that were cycled
thru the factory. Winning their trust, he would extract from them the
names of safe contacts they had left behind in Cuba.
? Both Reily and Monaghan were aware of Lee’s mission and Judyth’s
role as his “aide.” But Lee’s immediate supervisors were not.
? Judyth covered for Lee’s activity, and for his daily absences from
work, making sure to punch him out at 4:30PM or 5:30PM when he was no
longer there, which was almost always. Evidence: The Warren Report shows
precise time-outs on the half-hour, an impossibility since there was a
line to wait on and such precise time- outs could not occur accidentally.
It didn’t occur to Judyth to vary the time-out stamp. Evidence: She
also wrote an obviously phony background report on Lee for Reily’s
files. This report is also a Warren exhibit, although Judyth insists it
has not been published in its entirety. One missing piece refers to a
bank account; the WC reported no evidence that Lee had such an account.
? Often Lee would go through The Crescent City Garage, next door to
Reily’s, to get UNOBTRUSIVELY to the offices of ex-FBI man, now-CIA
operative, Guy Banister, who was deeply involved in anti-Castro causes.
This necessitated his befriending garage owner Adrian Alba. Note:
Previous accounts have maintained that Lee whiled away time at the garage
reading gun magazines. Note: The garage was regularly used by FBI and CIA
cars. Alba has testified that he saw the driver of one such car pass a
white envelope to Lee.
? Lee was fired after he stole a green glass Judyth was admiring but could
not afford. These glasses were packed together with tea made by the
company. According to the Warren Commission, he had been reprimanded by
supervisors who often could not find him (as well he should have been,
because he was often not there). The glass incident was the proximate
cause of his dismissal, but his work at Reily’s was done anyway.
Corroborating testimony: She told her children in 1980 of this episode.
Judyth still treasures the glass.
? Judyth was fired from Reily’s on August 9, after she was seen with Lee
leafleting on Canal Street.. Evidence: Judyth is 90% certain that Warren
Commission exhibit Pizzo 453-B, a photo of the scene, includes her
standing near Lee. The picture is blurry, but there is a resemblance
between the girl in the photo and contemporaneous photos of Judyth. The
dress pattern in the picture matches close-up photos of a dress Judyth
wore in other photos in her possession. The original film from which the
still was made was recently sent by TV station WDSU, on which it aired,
for archiving at the University of New Orleans. The last time we checked,
it was still unarchived, in one of many unmarked boxes. Evidence: Her
last pay stub was cut that very day. Note: The site of the leafleting
USUALLY DESCRIBED AS ON CANAL STREET IN FRONT OF MAISON BLANCHE, was also
NEXT DOOR TO the site of INCA’s headquarters.
_____________________________________________________________________
The Noble Conspiracy
This is a totally new account of what was going on in David Ferrie’s
home-based lab.
? Lee arranged for Judyth to meet David Ferrie, who she would soon learn
was an associate of New Orleans Mafia boss Carlos Marcello. FERRIE WAS a
CIA-operative who flew missions into Castro’s Cuba, and an “amateur
cancer researcher.” Note: Ferrie had lost his job as an Eastern
Airlines pilot because of his homosexuality. The 15-year-old Lee had
spurned Ferrie’s homosexual advances when Ferrie captained Lee’s Civil
Air Patrol Unit (CAP). Corroborating evidence: After decades of denials
that Oswald and Ferrie were acquainted, a photo emerged showing the two at
a CAP picnic. Judyth says there was an additional photo of the group,
including Lee, hanging on the wall in Ferrie’s apartment.
? In early May, Judyth was told Ochsner had set up both Ferrie’s home-
based cancer lab, as well as a smaller lab in the apartment of Dr. Mary
Sherman, a luminary at Ochsner’s Clinic. The labs were devoted to
“the medical side of subversive matters,” i.e., a form of biological
warfare. Corroborating evidence: The existence of the “cancer labs”
is documented in an obscure book by Ed Haslam, Mary, Ferrie and the Monkey
Virus.
? Judyth put her extensive training in ways of speeding tumor growth in
the service of her government. Her job, which she accepted as a patriotic
duty, was to culture the strongest possible strains of lung cancer for
eventual transport to medical contacts in Cuba who could arrange for their
injection into Castro through a seemingly “innocuous innoculation.”
? This lung cancer material would appear to kill Castro "naturally," as a
heavy cigar smoker might be expected to develop lung cancer. This
“assassination by natural causes” would avert a possible confrontation
with Russia that could ignite World War III. Judyth really believed this
was a duty, considering the horrifying alternative.
? The serum in which the cancer cells were placed included a virus that
knocks out the immune system, thus enhancing the strength of the already
powerful cancer cells. This material – scraped from the kidney’s of
sick monkeys – was, in fact, the PRECURSOR OF THE AIDS virus. Note: This
material, DERIVED FROM VIRAL CONTAMINANTS FOUND in the early polio vaccine
and other applications, is now the subject of an important new book on the
origin of AIDS, Edward Hooper’s The River. Judyth knew of its deadly
potential and wrote letters to have its use stopped at the same time as
she was working with it. ..
_____________________________________________________________________
Associates Judyth personally met other plotters, including Banister, Shaw,
and Marcello, though, as a girl of 19 or 20, she was often treated as if
she were wallpaper. Wallpaper with ears, a 160 IQ, and the ability to do
cutting edge cancer research. Banister ? Banister used Lee to collect the
names of Communist sympathizers at area{DELETE s ] colleges. Corroborating
testimony: Prof. Michael Kurtz, an historian specializing in Louisiana
history, personally witnessed Lee, in Banister’s company, making
anti-integrationist remarks at Tulane. Banister was a racist. Lee,
Judyth says, was staunchly pro-civil rights. ? Lee sometimes used a work
area on the second floor of the 544 Camp building that housed Banister’s
offices. Note: Critics of DA Jim Garrison insist there was no stairway
ALLOWING ACCESS between the two offices. According to Judyth, while there
was no public stairway, there were stairs leading down from the second
floor to a door inside Banister’s private office. Corroborating
Testimony: Anna Vincent, a new witness and ex-wife of Banister
“detective” David Lewis, confirms the existence of the stairway (on
audiotape). ? Judyth saw Lee sign out guns from Banister's weapons
storeroom on the third floor of 544 Camp. Lee also kept his own guns
there and, contrary to the belief of most conspiracy theorists, she
maintains that he was an excellent shot. She never saw or heard of a
Mannlicher-Carcano, the gun Oswald supposedly used to kill Kennedy. Ruby,
Marcello ? While Judyth was in Lee’s company, she met Jack Ruby twice,
in May and June of 1963, once at Ferrie's apartment and once at The 500
Club, a Marcello hang-out. Ruby worked with Banister and Marcello in
running guns to Cuban exiles. Corroborating testimony: Anna Vincent:
“Ruby knew all of ’em,” including Oswald. She also claims that
David Lewis knew Lee before Judyth ever met him, she believes in 1962.
It has long been suspected that Ruby and Banister ran guns to the exiles.
Corroborating testimony: Prof. Kurtz and others claim that Ruby was in
New Orleans on several occasions in 1963. Corroborating testimony: Gerry
Patrick Hemming, head of Interpen, a mercenary group linked by some to the
assassination, says he saw Oswald at the New Orleans airport in
“mid-1962.” (Actually, Hemming claims other members of his group were
involved, but that he turned down two contracts from Texas money,
believing he was going to be made the patsy. Hemming is still very much
alive and talking.) ? Judyth knew Ruby as "Sparky" Rubenstein. When Lee
was killed, she did not know that Jack Ruby and Sparky Rubenstein were the
same man! The shock of seeing Lee killed on TV, AND FEAR THAT SHE WOULD
ACCIDENTALLY REVEAL HER OWN INVOLVEMENT IN THE MATTER, caused her to avoid
all further coverage of the assassination, as well as the official
investigations that followed. ? Lee told Judyth that he first met Sparky
when he was just 15, and that he spurned Ruby’s attempts to recruit him
into Mob business. Even so, he ran errands for his uncle, Dutz Murrett,
who ran a bookmaking operation for Marcello. Judyth accompanied Lee on
one such errand soon after she met him. ? Lee told Judyth that he was
trusted by Mob figures, up to and including Marcello, for his ability to
keep his mouth shut. Marcello told Ruby to look after the boy when the
family moved to Texas. Corroborating evidence: Oswald’s ties to the
Mafia came not just via his uncle, but from his mother, who dated a number
Marcello employees, including Sam Termine. Oswald and his mother ONCE
lived in a Mafia neighborhood on Exchange Alley.
CIA Work
? Lee and Ferrie HELPED TEACH [taught] combat techniques to Cuban exiles
at the CIA-established training camp NEAR [at] Lake Pontchartrain (other
camps were in Florida), and portions of these training sessions were
filmed. Judyth saw some of this film in Ferrie’s apartment.
Corroborating testimony: Robert Tanenbaum, Deputy Counsel of the House
Select Committee on Assassinations, saw such a film before he quit the
investigation in disgust.. He believed it was archived at the Georgetown
Library, but it is no longer there. His attempts to relocate it have
proved fruitless. Like so much other evidence (including the President’s
brain and numerous autopsy photos!), it is missing. Tanenbaum is today a
very successful mystery writer, as well as the former mayor of Beverly
Hills. Tanenbaum’s novel Corruption of Blood was a very thinly veiled
account of his experience with the HSCA, and includes a description of the
film.
? Judyth saw Lee use an expensive Minox camera, typically used in
espionage work. Corroborating evidence: The FBI tried to get the Dallas
police to change its evidence inventory from “small German camera” to
"light meter" -- efforts fully documented by the officers they pressured.
An FBI document refers to Minox film retrieved from Oswald’s possessions
after the assassination. Lead: Where is the film today? Where is the
camera or light meter? In fact, a Minox camera sits in the National
Archives today (owner unknown). It is glued shut so its serial number
cannot be seen. In any case, how could Oswald, supposedly a virtual
pauper, afford a $200 spy camera? Note: According to Judyth, Lee’s Minox
was so sensitive that she never saw IT USED with a light meter.
? To establish his pro-Castro bona fides, Lee handed out leaflets bearing
the name of the “Fair Play for Cuba Committee” three times in August.
He got the idea for leafleting from an episode of “I Led Three Lives,”
an early 1950s TV show about Herbert Philbrick, an FBI man pretending to
be a Communist. Evidence: Lee’s brother, Robert, confirms his
fascination with that show. Note: Lee [AT SOME TIME] [later] met the real
Herbert Philbrick, who was a consultant to Ochsner’s group, INCA. He
found his boyhood hero unimpressive in the flesh.
? Lee staged his own arrest at an August 16th leafleting. His “fight”
with Cuban exile leader Carlos Bringuier was based on an incident he had
read about in a local newspaper months earlier. The story concerned a
clean-cut narcotics agent who provoked a street fight to enhance his cover
as a bad guy. Evidence: Judyth has the May 4, 1963 article. Corroborating
testimony: Ex-CIA agent William Gaudet said he saw Oswald inside the
International Trade Center several times. Judyth says Lee stored some of
his propaganda materials there. Gaudet has said the street scuffle was
“a sort of PR operation” and declared his belief that Kennedy was the
victim of an anti-Communist conspiracy. Gaudet was a friend of
Ocshner’s.
? At a meeting arranged by Ochsner’s group, INCA, held to prepare for a
radio interview of Lee, someone accidentally uttered the name [ACTUALLY,
THEY SAID ‘DAVID PHILLIPS,’AND LEE RECOGNIZED THIS AS DAVID ATLEE
PHILLIPS] “David Atlee Phillips.” Lee came to believe his CIA handler,
“Mr. B.," was actually Phillips. Judyth waited in the car as the
meeting took place at Reily’s. Lead: Phillips, propaganda specialist in
Cuban affairs, denied ever knowing Oswald. There are reports of a
death-bed confession in which he admitted, at the very least, that he did
meet Oswald. Judyth’s source, a national book award winner, claimed
this information came from Phillips’s nephew, [REMOVE a] Shawn Phillips,
but THE WRITER now refuses to help us locate this man.
? Lee then participated in a radio debate with Bringuier, also organized
by Ochsner’s group, INCA.
? Shaw and Ferrie knew each other well. Once, Judyth accompanied Lee to
an airfield where Ferrie took the other two men on a flight to Canada.
Corroborating testimony: Others have reported on Ferrie-Shaw flights to
Canada. Corroborating testimony: An ex-secretary of Ochsner’s, Aura
Lee, worked at Shaw’s Trade Mart and claimed that Ferrie, a
distinctive-looking gentleman, was a frequent visitor to Shaw.
_____________________________________________________________________
Judyth’s Lee
Judyth portrays Oswald as a much more intelligent and charming man than we
have seen in most previous accounts.
? Although Lee confessed to her within days of their meeting that he beat
Marina, Judyth says he never raised a hand to her. In fact, she describes
no fights of any kind. Lee told her that Marina mercilessly denigrated
him. Lee admitted to a mother-wife problem, which they often discussed,
and she believes the abuse stopped (it would be interesting if Marina
would confirm this). Corroborating testimony: In his unpublished
manuscript – I’m A Patsy, I’m A Patsy – the urbane George
DeMohrenschildt[OMIT ,] described by some as Lee’s CIA “babysitter”
in Texas, described Marina’s DEMEANING treatment of Lee.
? Although primarily self-taught, the range of Lee’s knowledge impressed
Judyth, as did his ability to teach himself Russian despite being
dyslexic. Corroborating evidence: Oswald’s library records show that he
was an avid reader. They also show Judyth’s influence (anthropology and
sci-fi), as well as books he took out for her to read (e.g., a primer on
C[ O] [u]mmunism). Judyth says he took out more books than are shown in
the Warren Report, some using her or Ferrie’s library cards. Evidence:
Refer to the text of a speech Lee gave to a Jesuit- sponsored conference
in Mobile…a transcript of his radio debate…a short sci-fi story –
[‘HER WAY’][NOT “Her Story”] – A 17 PAGE SCIENCE FICTION STORY
he wrote with Judyth. Corroborating testimony: DeMohrenschildt praised
Lee’s intelligence in his book (a different account of the man than the
one he gave to the Warren Commission). Note: “The Baron” committed
suicide just prior to meeting with House investigator Gaeton Fonzi (The
Last Investigation) – before he could be asked to explain these
inconsistencies.
? While in the company of Oswald, Judyth sometimes posed as Marina, which
was possible because of their physical resemblance and her ability to
speak Russian. Judyth’s husband was out of town most of their married
life in New Orleans. Evidence: Judyth has photos of herself at the time,
some of which show a striking resemblance to Marina. THEY WERE ALSO THE
SAME HEIGHT AND BUILD.
? In testimony, Marina said Lee was always home at night, but she never
said by what time. Corroborating testimony: Anna Vincent asserts that
she, her husband, Judyth and Lee were a foursome, meeting after work on a
regular basis early that summer, usually at Thompson’s Restaurant, where
Anna worked. Lee and Judyth would keep company with them until 8:00-8:30
PM. Anna describes a call from Marina at Thompson’s. Marina wanted to
know if Lee was there with another woman.
? Although they fell in love almost immediately, Lee and Judyth resisted
becoming lovers until the summer.
_____________________________________________________________________
Clinton/Jackson: Mystery Solved
This is a totally new account of the trip to Clinton
? Judyth’s work took longer than expected, and was, to her horror,
tested on at least one human guinea pig -- the real reason for the
mysterious trip to Clinton, probably on August 23, by Shaw, Ferrie, and
Oswald. Note: The House Select Committee on Assassinations found the
Clinton witnesses – including John Birchers and CORE activists –
credible, but no one has been able to come up with a coherent explanation
for the trip. All have been sidetracked by the fact that Oswald tried to
register to vote while in Clinton though he didn’t live there.
? Lee mentioned picking up a man in white hospital garb who guided them to
the mental hospital in Jackson, the next town over from Clinton, and to
the PROPER BUILDING AND ENTRYWAY IN THE LARGE COMPLEX [experimental area]
there.
Note: Witnesses reported seeing a fourth man – a “man in white” --
emerge from the car with Lee in Clinton.
? The true reason for the long stop in Clinton was an unexpected delay:
the prisoner(s) had not yet arrived at the hospital. Oswald got [IN][ on]
line after betting Shaw that he could get registered just because he was
white, EVEN THOUGH HE WAS FROM A DIFFERENT PARISH.
? Lee and Judyth were heartsick over the plan to treat a prisoner/ mental
patient, but were powerless to stop it. Several days after the first
trip, Lee took Judyth to the hospital to see the test subject. Shaw
OK’d the trip, as he wanted her professional assessment of the
patient’s condition.
? Judyth checked on the bloodwork to see if the serum “took.” If the
bloodwork was not conclusive, an immediate blood sample could have been
drawn and checked while she was still there. As it turned out, radical
changes began quickly. The only man she saw (more than one may have been
treated) was Cuban, white, about Castro's age and physique.
? They made one stop going to Jackson and another on the way home. Judyth
stayed in the car both times. Corroborating evidence: Despite
“slouching,,” she was seen by at least two witnesses:
? Edwin Lea McGehee:
An "old...battered" car drove up to his barbershop and Lee Harvey Oswald
came inside for a haircut. "There was a woman sitting on the front seat
[of the car]...and in the back seat what I noticed was -- looked like a
[baby] bassinet..." (Judyth says this was a car used by the Lewis’s and
that the bassinet was for the ever-pregnant Anna. ANNA EVENTUALLY HAD TEN
CHILDREN.).
? Mary Morgan, daughter of Reeves Morgan, State Representative (and a
guard at the Jackson hospital!): When Oswald was in the house talking with
her dad, she went onto the porch and “just casually noticed there was a
dark colored car parked under a tree in the front of the house." She
remembered "seeing a woman in the car.” Note: The fact that there were
two trips within days of each other explains why some accounts say this
was a three-day trip. It is unlikely that any of these men, and certainly
not Shaw, would make a three-day trip together.
? The test was a success, as the subject died within weeks.
? Lee and Judyth began to realize that they were trapped. They could not
back out of the plot for fear they would be killed.
_____________________________________________________________________
Road to the Assassination
? Lee and Judyth actually liked the Kennedys; in their youthful
overconfidence, they never thought they would be racing a deadline to keep
JFK from becoming a target.
? In private, Ferrie told them that he opposed the assassination; he was
only putting on an act for Shaw, who represented Texas money in New
Orleans. Note: Excluding comments in Banister’s company, every mention
in the historical record of Oswald talking about Kennedy is a positive
one. (We have a compilation of his statements.)
? Based on a message from AN H.L. Hunt EXECUTIVE conveyed to a Shaw
associate, those involved with the labs had reason to fear for their lives
once they had outlived their usefulness.
? Ferrie arranged for Judyth to take a job, beginning in September, at
Peninsular Chem Research in Gaine[S]ville, Florida, which CUSTOM-made
ORGANIC AND [REMOVE highly] toxic chemicals. There she could continue to
contribute to the project by making “custom” chemicals for Ferrie.
Evidence: Judyth has a read-out from a chemical analysis, marked F-1,
done at PenChem on a rare carc[CI][en]ogenic substance.
? The three understood, as early as the third week of August, that Lee's
grooming in Russia and his [PRO-CASTRO] activities in New Orleans made him
the perfect patsy.
? Fearing he was a dead man if he tried to break with the conspirators at
this point, he would pretend to embrace Plan B, walking with eyes wide
open into the patsy role. He hoped to get close to the inner circle of the
conspiracy in Dallas and stop the plot from the inside. To get further
inside, [LEE][he ] played up his connections to Marcello and revealed his
marksmanship.
? At the end of August, Shaw paid for the last of several hotel trysts for
Judyth and Lee. According to Judyth, Shaw felt sorry for them.
? Judyth then left for Florida. The supposedly impoverished Lee gave her
$400 for “emergencies” – equal to about $2,800 in today’s dollars.
Judyth told her family that the money fell out of an ironing board she
bought at a yard sale. “IT BECAME A FAMILY LEGEND,’ SHE SAYS.
.._____________________________________________________________________
Mexico City: Mystery Solved
This is a totally new account of the mysterious trip to Mexico City.
? In August, Judyth trained Lee to handle the deadly material. LEE, IN
TURN, WOULD TEACH A CONTACT IN MEXICO CITY HOW TO HANDLE THE MATERIALS,
AND IN THIS MANNER, THE MATERIALS WOULD SURVIVE TRANSFER TO A CUBAN
MEDICAL LAB.. AFTER PLEDGES TO MEET ONCE THIS MISSION WAS OVER, Judyth
left for Florida at the end of the month.
? Lee couriered the materials to Mexico City at the end of September,
expecting to meet a contact who would bring them into Cuba. He was
ordered to make the trip by “Mr. B.” New information: Mr. B may not
have been Phillips. Another CIA figure, Frank Bender, one alias of Gerry
Droller, was known inside the agency as Mr. B. He was posted to Mexico
City at the same time as Phillips. The record says that Droller worked for
the OSS during the war, but there are indications he had actually worked
on biological weapons for the Nazis.
? Lee was left holding the bag -- i.e., no one was there to meet him in
Mexico City to take the materials off his hands. So he desperately tried
to get into Cuba himself, where his knowledge of HOW TO HANDLE THE
MATERIALS, the language, the terrain, safe houses, and contacts might
still be used. Indeed, initially, he expected to make the entire trip
himself.
? He was frantic because the materials had a limited life span outside a
lab – hence, the official reports of his erratic behavior. He was also
frantic because he knew what failure meant. In fact, the conspirators had
already turned to Plan B without telling him.
? They were later told that Hurricane Flora had created so much
destruction that information about safe houses, and about Castro’s
routine, was no longer to be trusted, so Plan A had to be called off.
_____________________________________________________________________
Endgame ? With Lee in Texas and Judyth in Florida, Ferrie arranged for
about 14 back-channel phone calls through a cooperative (and
well-paid-off) operator in Covington. Corroborating evidence: Only one
call placed to Oswald at the Book Depository is on record. This call came
from “a lady with no accent” The Warren Commission tried to track the
origin of the call, but couldn’t get past Covington. According to
Judyth, the record would not even show this call except for the fact that
the operator putting this call through was not their usual operator. Note:
Interpen had a presence in Covington. ? Lee told Judyth that he made
several unsuccessful attempts to stop the assassination, including calling
death threats to the FBI. Corroborating evidence: A number of anonymous
threats and warnings were called into FBI offices prior to the
assassination. ? In their last conversation, on November 20th, they
discussed the option of fleeing before the assassination. Judyth recalls
Lee’s words precisely: “if I stay, that will be one less bullet aimed
at Kennedy.” ? Lee told Judyth of his last-ditch plan: to fire a
premature shot, a warning shot, at the motorcade, hoping to alert JFK’s
Secret Service protectors. Corroborating Testimony: At least 5 Warren
Commission witnesses reported a bullet hitting the pavement behind the
President’s limo. This would have been his closest and, presumably,
easiest shot. Note: The "street shot" bullet was presumably never found,
unless that is what is being picked up by the "mystery FBI man"
photographed with Dallas Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walthers and Officer J.W.
Foster. The photo has long been the subject of speculation. Corroborating
Testimony: Anna Vincent says it was open knowledge in the local Mafia
that Lee fired a premature shot. ? If he did fire a warning shot, it went
unheeded by the sleepy Secret Service agents. ? Lee and Judyth had made
plans for an escape and rendezvous in Mexico. Judyth tells of Ferrie
sobbing uncontrollably during phone calls with him because it had all gone
so wrong. His 400-mile car trip to Houston the day of the assassination
was made in vain (he told Garrison, variously, that he and two friends
went [ICE][roller]-skating or goose-hunting).
_____________________________________________________________________
Deaths After Dallas
? Guy Banister died of an apparent hear[T] attack at his home in early
1964. New Testimony: According to Anna Vincent, her husband, David Lewis,
and fellow Banister employee, Jack Martin, went to the office immediately
upon hearing the news, only to find the files carted off and yellow
[TAPE][ribbon] surrounding the office as if it were a crime scene. Lewis
played a minor role in the Cuban operation and, according to Anna, was
told to “keep his mouth shut.” Note: Author Ed Haslam (see above)
believes he saw remnants of Banister’s missing files at INCA’s
offices.
? David Ferrie died of an apparent brain anyeurism (not cancer as he told
those curious about his lab) in early 1964. Note: An empty bottle of
Proloid – which could kill a man suffering from hypertension -- and two
typed “suicide notes” keep his death controversial.
? Mary Sherman was brutally murdered in her bed [IN JULY, 1964][just weeks
later,] with reports of cancer cells stolen. Corroborating testimony:
Judyth has a letter from a former resident of New Orleans in which he
recollects radio reports of stolen cancer cells.
? THE NON-SMOKING Jack Ruby died of “a galloping LUNG cancer” in JAIL
IN 1967. When [RUBY][ he] visited Ferrie’s apartment in the summer of
1963, Judyth showed him the lab and told him about the cancer cell
injections -- including where on the body the injections should be
administered. Note: In jail, Ruby insisted he was injected with cancer
cells, but no one took him seriously. His mind was shot and they just
assumed he was babbling incoherently. Clay Shaw died suddenly of SUSPECTED
LUNG cancer in 1972 after being treated for an undisclosed illness at
Ochsner’s Hospital. Note: Of the 8 persons Judyth knew who were
connected to the New Orelans cancer project, 5 were dead by 1967. After
1972, only she and Ochsner remained -- and she was in hiding.
_____________________________________________________________________
The Participants
Who was involved? Mafia, CIA “rogues,” Cuban exiles, financed by
Texas oil AND INDUSTRY – or a smaller group culled from these. When the
CIA- Mafia alliance was established in 1959, an infrastructure was created
that could be used by a subset of this group to put into motion the
assassination of JFK.
Their Motives
The Mafia
JFK's failure to regain Cuba meant the permanent loss of billions of
dollars from their casinos, HOUSES OF PROSTITUTION, AND DRUG RINGS. Also
providing motive was Bobby Kennedy’s unprecedent assault on organized
crime, including particularly aggressive treatment of New Orleans crime
boss Carlos Marcello. Bobby had the proud Marecello kidnapped [WHEN
MARCELLO REPORTED TO A PAROLE OFFICER][from his office], put on a plane,
and dumped in Guatemala. He made it back to the US, barely surviving the
wilds of Honduras. The treatment was no way to repay a debt, i.e., the
Mob’s help in rigging 1960 election results in Illinois and Texas.
The CIA
After the Bay of Pigs fiasco, JFK threatened to “split the CIA into a
thousand pieces.” He fired CIA Director Allen Dulles (who would later
sit on the Warren Commission!) and General George Cabell (whose brother
Earl was Mayor of Dallas in 1963). JFK was seen as soft on Communism,
[WEAKENING][weakening] his resolve in Vietnam, and extending an olive
branch to Castro AND KHRUSHCHEV.
Cuban Exiles
Kennedy’s betrayals: the Bay of Pigs; the deal with the Soviets that
ended the Cuban Missile Crisis, which included a non-invasion pledge;
RFK’s dismantling of exile training camps the CIA set up for exiles; his
suppression of raids on Cuba; WITHDRAWAL OF FUNDING OF ANTI-CASTRO EXILES,
and, finally, JFK’s attempt late in 1963 at a rapproachmant with Castro.
Texas Money This group – led by H.L. Hunt –OR POSSIBLY BY HIS
LIEUTENANTS--- detested JFK’s Cuba policy, as well as his integrationist
stance, but mostly they were threatened by his vow to repeal a major tax
windfall, the oil depletion allowance. They wanted a man in the White
House they could control, i.e., LBJ, and they needed to get him there
fast, as the Bobby Baker and Billy Sol Estes scandals threatened his
continuation as Vice President.
If this cabal couldn’t get to Castro, paving the way for a rebellion, or
at least more compliant leadership, they had decided to go after Kennedy.
With the blame pinned on Oswald, who was groomed to look like a Communist,
and would soon be groomed to look pro-Castro, they hoped to spark a second
invasion of Cuba. Ironically, CIA stonewalling of the Warren Commission
was almost certainly conducted to prevent its relationship with the Mafia
from being exposed, as well as its surveillance operation in Mexico City.
Thus, the assassination cover-up was thus joined by high officials in the
CIA, who may not themselves have participated in the assassination.
_____________________________________________________________________
On Proof and Evidence
While there is no “smoking gun” proof -- no government document, for
example -- for this particular plot, no such proof should be expected for
a project kept so secret. However, the account provided by Judyth Vary
Baker is much more detailed than any previous account by a late-emerging
witness, and it explains [MUCH OF WHAT WAS][a lot] previously subject to
wild, and widely divergent, speculation.
____________________________________________________________________
Last Words
“They did it too good.”
Gerry Patrick Hemming, Interpen, on why the conspirators failed: "What
backfired on the plotters was painting this picture that it was a Castro
hit. It scared the shit out of some high-ranking people, and they covered
it up….How could these people [the plotters] possibly figure out that
this scenario would scare the shit out of the people in Washington? Jesus
Christ, the best laid plans of mice and men. They did it too good. They
painted too clear of a picture that burned its way right back to Fidel
Castro. It scared the fuck out of the powers that be. They wouldn't go to
war. The American people never realized we had come so fucking close to
nuclear holocaust."
“…Who Struck John”
James Jesus Angleton, CIA counterintelligence spymaster: "A mansion has
many rooms and there were many things going on during the period of the
bombings. I'm not privy to who struck John." [The New York Times, March
1975]
[...]
<QUOTE OFF>------------------------------------
Dave
Martin Shackelford
to make his fortune with James Files. Great source, Dave.
Martin
"Dave Reitzes" <drei...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3622f0ba-4c5a-4796...@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/49f43638bf709f62/e446ae528b2808ac?hl=en&lnk=st&q=#e446ae528b2808ac
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/e446ae528b2808ac?dmode=source
<QUOTE ON>-------------------------------------
Judyth’s Story
The Plot
The Love Story
WHICH THEN CHANGED TO:
Deadly Alliance
OUTLINE OF THE CONSPIRACY
_____________________________________________________________________
Judyth and Lee
_____________________________________________________________________
The Noble Conspiracy
CIA Work
“Mr. B.,"=as actually Phillips. Judyth waited in the car as the
Dave Reitzes
wrote:
> How wonderful--a bunch of posts from "Dr. Truth," the guy who was going
> to make his fortune with James Files. Great source, Dave.
>
> Martin
Is anything in Vernon's post inauthentic, Martin?
Dave
Martin Shackelford
I don't intend to wade through dozens of pages of your re-posts and reinvent
the wheel.
You seem able to find things in the Google archives. Good luck with that.
Martin
"Dave Reitzes" <drei...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:bc5b9479-61fb-4748...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On May 27, 10:59?am, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net>
Dave Reitzes
wrote:
> I commented on Vernon's posts at the time, Dave.
> I don't intend to wade through dozens of pages of your re-posts and reinvent
> the wheel.
> You seem able to find things in the Google archives. Good luck with that.
>
> Martin
That would be a "no," then.
Thanks for confirming.
> "Dave Reitzes" <dreit...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:bc5b9479-61fb-4748...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On May 27, 10:59?am, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> > How wonderful--a bunch of posts from "Dr. Truth," the guy who was going
> > to make his fortune with James Files. Great source, Dave.
>
> > Martin
>
> Is anything in Vernon's post inauthentic, Martin?
Dave
Martin Shackelford
I have never considered Bob Vernon to be a credible source on anything.
Once again, you are attempting to put false words in my mouth.
This is a chronic habit of yours.
Martin
"Dave Reitzes" <drei...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:559d242a-6211-4793...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On May 28, 10:36?am, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net>
Dave Reitzes
wrote:
> No, Dave, it wouldn't be a "no."
> I have never considered Bob Vernon to be a credible source on anything.
> Once again, you are attempting to put false words in my mouth.
> This is a chronic habit of yours.
>
> Martin
Sorry, I don't believe you.
Does anyone?
Martin Shackelford
You are a real prize, Dave.
Or is that you don't "believe" that you have a chronic habit of putting your
"interpretations" in place of people's actual words, and then citing the
"interpretations" as though that was what the person said?
What you believe no longer interests me, Dave.
The fact that you continue to expect anyone to respond to your demands,
with your history here, underlines your irrelevance.
Martin
"Dave Reitzes" <drei...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c456fb3a-d6de-431f...@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
On May 29, 10:05?am, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net>
Michael O'Dell
"Martin Shackelford" <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:Se90k.3191$xZ....@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
> You don't believe that I've never considered Bob Vernon a credible source?
> You are a real prize, Dave.
> Or is that you don't "believe" that you have a chronic habit of putting
> your
> "interpretations" in place of people's actual words, and then citing the
> "interpretations" as though that was what the person said?
Hello? That's exactly what you have been doing and presenting as fact.
Michael
Dave Reitzes
wrote:
> You don't believe that I've never considered Bob Vernon a credible source?
> You are a real prize, Dave.
> Or is that you don't "believe" that you have a chronic habit of putting your
> "interpretations" in place of people's actual words, and then citing the
> "interpretations" as though that was what the person said?
> What you believe no longer interests me, Dave.
> The fact that you continue to expect anyone to respond to your demands,
> with your history here, underlines your irrelevance.
>
> Martin
Martin huffs, and he puffs, but he can't come up with any evidence
that Vernon did anything to alter or in any way invalidate the Team
Judyth material he posted.
And he can't, even after all this time, produce a single reason anyone
with half a brain should take Judyth the least bit seriously.