Fun Battles With CTers From The Past

[David Von Pein]

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/06/miscellaneous-posts-part-29.html

[Robert Harris]

David Von Pein wrote:
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/06/miscellaneous-posts-part-29.html
>
>

David, you recently posted two links to your blog, stating that they
contained answers to important questions I asked you. But I could not
find answers anywhere at those links.

One of the questions was about DA Wade, who stated that he encountered a
nurse who was holding a bullet in her hand, which she said, came from
Connally's gurney.

Another was about officer Nolan, who heard her say exactly the same
thing, before she gave it to him and he delivered it to the DPD.

Yet another, was about Gov. Connally, who also stated that a bullet fell
from his gurney which was recovered by a nurse - undoubtedly, the same
one who spoke to Wade and Nolan.

How could that have been the same one Tomlinson found??

I also asked about Tomlinson, who stated that he was awakened in the
early morning hours by the FBI, who told him to "keep his mouth shut"
about the bullet. David, do you think that had anything to do with the
fact that just 2 hours earlier, they had received the first fragments
from DP that were large enough to compare with Tomlinson's bullet?

In one of your links, you did address the issue of SA Johnsen's initials
being absent on CE399, but I cannot make any sense out of your reply,
since his refusal to confirm CE399, seems like an argument for my team,
not yours:-)

These issues are infinitely more important than your "battles", don't
you think, David?

Perhaps it's time to start worrying less about winning and more about
actually getting to the truth.

Are you up for that, David?



Robert Harris

[David Von Pein]

RE: THE BULLET / ("CUFF LINK"?)....
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/lYmpGowHU_A/zTeBNeFprVsJ


RE: DARRELL TOMLINSON'S CALL FROM THE FBI....
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/12/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-73.html#Tomlinson-And-The-FBI


RE: THE CHAIN OF POSSESSION FOR CE399....
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-secret-service-and-ce399.html

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HUEhMScterk/UGZMu7lf05I/AAAAAAAAJm8/yDjt1jhkjEA/s1600/Richard-Johnsen-Note-Regarding-Stretcher-Bullet.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FoxiImP_tig/UGUvr_sOf0I/AAAAAAAAJmI/hLmS9kXOt2o/s1600/CE399-Envelope.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nuxTvhKaHw8/TvZ3cJ3x4iI/AAAAAAAABUs/R945-tF5OWo/s1600/CD7.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gszobdYmUwk/U63LUdr3AUI/AAAAAAAA1ls/9d9_D4MhS08/s1600/CD320-Rowley-Memo.png

[OHLeeRedux]

You only want answers that you can deal with in your very narrow mindset,
Robert. The real answers are there if you give up your obsession.

And commas are not pepper to be sprinkled into sentences to your own
taste.

[Robert Harris]

David Von Pein wrote:
> RE: THE BULLET / ("CUFF LINK"?)....
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/lYmpGowHU_A/zTeBNeFprVsJ

So, after posting two phony links which fail to address the questions
you claimed to have answered, you now decide to post SEVEN???

And why do you cite an FBI report, claiming that agent Odum got
confirmations from Tomlinson and Wright, when you know all too well,
that Odum himself, flatly denied those interviews and said he never even
saw CE399?

You claim that the FBI just got the agent's name wrong is about as
idiotic as things get around here.

And I saw nothing at your links which addressed the late night call,
telling Tomlinson to keep his mouth shut, or about the statements of
Connally, Wade, Nolan and Bell, regarding the actual bullet that wounded
Connally.

Now, if you don't want to answer the questions, just say so. But please
stop posting links to countless thousands of useless, irrelevant words.
Here are the original questions again:


Dave, I'm sure it was an honest oversight, that you didn't answer my
questions. But I am very interested in getting your opinions on these
issues:


Why are you confirming what no one disputes, David?

Why don't you instead, explain why neither Johnsen or Todd's initials
are on CE399?

http://jfkhistory.com/bell/bellarticle/initials.png

Or why the FBI woke Daryl Tomlinson up in the wee hours of the morning,
telling him to keep his mouth shout about the bullet he found, less than
two hours after they received fragments from the limo, that were large
enough to compare with the bullet he found?

http://jfkhistory.com/bell/bellarticle/fraziernotes.jpg

Strange, isn't it that there is NO record of the feds claiming his
bullet matched those fragments, even long after they had them to compare?

Or perhaps you will tell us about the bullet that Gov. Connally saw,
fall from his stretcher, which was recovered by a nurse? Can you also
explain why both DA Wade and officer Nolan heard that nurse confirm that
the bullet came from his "gurney"?

Wade delivered that bullet to the DPD on the night of the 22nd. It
couldn't possible have been the one that Tomlinson found.


Robert Harris

[Anthony Marsh]

On 7/4/2014 8:34 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
> RE: THE BULLET / ("CUFF LINK"?)....
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/lYmpGowHU_A/zTeBNeFprVsJ
>
>

Your whole argument seems to rest on this one sentence:

Given the fact that the above testimony from one of John Connally's
own doctors exists in the Warren Commission record, it's inconceivable
to think that a bullet could have fallen from Connally's body and BEEN
RECOVERED by a nurse, with this nurse then saying NOTHING to Dr.
Gregory or anyone else about it.

I might agree with that 100%, but I would never use such a weak-ass
argument as PROOF. I would be laughed out by the WC defenders. You can
get away with it because no WC defender would dare to criticize you.


BTW, what about the story that the nurse is living in hiding in Europe
and still has the cufflink?

[David Von Pein]

ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

And I saw nothing at your links which addressed the late night call,

telling Tomlinson to keep his mouth shut...


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

~sigh~

You obviously didn't click this then.....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/12/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-73.html#Tomlinson-And-The-FBI


ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

...or about the statements of Connally, Wade, Nolan and Bell, regarding

the actual bullet that wounded Connally.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

~another sigh ~

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/lYmpGowHU_A/zTeBNeFprVsJ

ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Wade delivered that bullet to the DPD on the night of the 22nd. It

couldn't [possibly] have been the one that Tomlinson found.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Henry Wade didn't "deliver" any *whole bullet* to the DPD. And you have
absolutely *no* evidence to back up such a claim.

If Wade had delivered an intact bullet to the DPD that had dropped off of
Governor Connally's stretcher, that bullet would be part of the official
evidence in this case today. And, of course, no such "Wade bullet" exists
in the record, does it Bob?

Now Bob will pretend the "Wade bullet" was swept under the rug by the evil
DPD (and/or the wicked FBI). Won't you, Bob?

Bob probably should have learned a lesson from Jim Sibert and Francis
O'Neill about how BULLET FRAGMENTS can get turned erroneously into WHOLE
MISSILES:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/interview-with-james-sibert.html

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/02/interview-with-francis-oneill.html

Very similar to the Sibert/O'Neill mistake, it couldn't be any clearer
that the "Wade/Nolan/Connally bullet" is, in reality, only the BULLET
FRAGMENTS that were removed from John Connally's wrist.

The exact same kind of "Fragments become a whole bullet" mistake that has
plagued the Sibert/O'Neill FBI report undoubtedly also occurred with
respect to any comments about a whole "bullet" that were made by Henry
Wade, Bobby Nolan, Audrey Bell, or anyone else associated with those
bullet fragments which became Warren Commission Exhibit No. 842.

Some of those people might have casually referred to the item they handled
as a "bullet", but what they really handled were just fragments--just like
with Sibert and O'Neill.


More battles with Bob:
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/search?q=Robert+Harris

[Anthony Marsh]

Already asked and answered. Why don't you keep asking it 100 times every
day? That's your style. Argument by SPAM.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 7/5/2014 6:01 PM, David Von Pein wrote:

> ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
>
> And I saw nothing at your links which addressed the late night call,

> telling Tomlinson to keep his mouth shut...

>
>
> ~sigh~
>
> You obviously didn't click this then.....
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/12/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-73.html#Tomlinson-And-The-FBI
>
>
> ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
>

> ...or about the statements of Connally, Wade, Nolan and Bell, regarding

> the actual bullet that wounded Connally.
>

> ~another sigh ~
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/lYmpGowHU_A/zTeBNeFprVsJ
>
>
> ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
>

> Wade delivered that bullet to the DPD on the night of the 22nd. It

> couldn't [possibly] have been the one that Tomlinson found.
>
>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
> Henry Wade didn't "deliver" any *whole bullet* to the DPD. And you have
> absolutely *no* evidence to back up such a claim.
>
> If Wade had delivered an intact bullet to the DPD that had dropped off of
> Governor Connally's stretcher, that bullet would be part of the official
> evidence in this case today. And, of course, no such "Wade bullet" exists
> in the record, does it Bob?
>
> Now Bob will pretend the "Wade bullet" was swept under the rug by the evil
> DPD (and/or the wicked FBI). Won't you, Bob?
>
> Bob probably should have learned a lesson from Jim Sibert and Francis
> O'Neill about how BULLET FRAGMENTS can get turned erroneously into WHOLE
> MISSILES:
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/interview-with-james-sibert.html
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/02/interview-with-francis-oneill.html
>
> Very similar to the Sibert/O'Neill mistake, it couldn't be any clearer
> that the "Wade/Nolan/Connally bullet" is, in reality, only the BULLET
> FRAGMENTS that were removed from John Connally's wrist.
>

Wonderful. Tell everybody about the fragments that were NOT removed from
Connally's body, especially the one fragment that didn't match either group.

> The exact same kind of "Fragments become a whole bullet" mistake that has
> plagued the Sibert/O'Neill FBI report undoubtedly also occurred with
> respect to any comments about a whole "bullet" that were made by Henry
> Wade, Bobby Nolan, Audrey Bell, or anyone else associated with those
> bullet fragments which became Warren Commission Exhibit No. 842.
>
> Some of those people might have casually referred to the item they handled
> as a "bullet", but what they really handled were just fragments--just like
> with Sibert and O'Neill.
>

WC defenders often make that mistaken when saying that all the recovered
bullet match Oswald's rifle.
YOU never correct them. I do.

[David Von Pein]

ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

Wonderful. Tell everybody about the fragments that were NOT removed from
Connally's body, especially the one fragment that didn't match either
group.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

That makes no sense at all. If a certain fragment was NOT removed from
JBC's body, then how can you say it "didn't match either group"?

You think a fragment that Connally took to his grave could be tested in
some manner?

~big shrug~

[SHERLOCK HOLMES]

The one fragment that didn't match either
group was altered.

[Robert Harris]

David Von Pein wrote:
> ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
>

> And I saw nothing at your links which addressed the late night call,

> telling Tomlinson to keep his mouth shut...
>
>
> ~sigh~
>
> You obviously didn't click this then.....
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/12/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-73.html#Tomlinson-And-The-FBI
>
>
> ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
>

> ...or about the statements of Connally, Wade, Nolan and Bell, regarding

> the actual bullet that wounded Connally.
>

> ~another sigh ~
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/lYmpGowHU_A/zTeBNeFprVsJ
>
>
> ROBERT HARRIS SAID:
>

> Wade delivered that bullet to the DPD on the night of the 22nd. It

> couldn't [possibly] have been the one that Tomlinson found.
>
>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
> Henry Wade didn't "deliver" any *whole bullet* to the DPD. And you have
> absolutely *no* evidence to back up such a claim.

David, you know that was an error on my part. It was Nolan who delivered
the bullet to the DPD. Even the FBI confirmed that.

>
> If Wade had delivered an intact bullet to the DPD that had dropped off of
> Governor Connally's stretcher, that bullet would be part of the official
> evidence in this case today. And, of course, no such "Wade bullet" exists
> in the record, does it Bob?

Stop it David. We've discussed this before and you KNOW very well that I
meant to say it was Nolan who delivered the bullet.

>
> Now Bob will pretend the "Wade bullet" was swept under the rug by the evil
> DPD (and/or the wicked FBI). Won't you, Bob?

Connally said the bullet fell from his gurney and was picked up by a
nurse.

Wade encountered that nurse who was holding the "bullet" in her hand and
said it came from Connally's "gurney".

She then gave the bullet to officer Nolan, who also stated that she said
it came from Connally's "gurney".

ALL THREE referred to a whole bullet. ALL THREE referred to a bullet come
Connally's "gurney".

How do you explain that David?

>
> Bob probably should have learned a lesson from Jim Sibert and Francis
> O'Neill about how BULLET FRAGMENTS can get turned erroneously into WHOLE
> MISSILES:
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/interview-with-james-sibert.html
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/02/interview-with-francis-oneill.html
>
> Very similar to the Sibert/O'Neill mistake, it couldn't be any clearer
> that the "Wade/Nolan/Connally bullet" is, in reality, only the BULLET
> FRAGMENTS that were removed from John Connally's wrist.

That's ridiculous, David. Trained medical personnel are not the same as
FBI agents. ER nurses know what a bullet is and how critically important
it is to get the details right. Bell, especially, as a supervisor, had
to be aware of such things. There is NO way she would have told the
District attorney and a police officer that the tiny particle she had
processed, was a whole bullet.

Bell flatly denied the FBI's claim that she told them she gave anything
to Nolan. And their deception was further confirmed by their constant
reference to a single "fragment".

And it is ludicrous to think that Wade thought she was holding a whole
bullet in her hand, rather than four tiny particles.

And how do you explain the fact that the nurse who recovered the bullet,
told both of these men that it came from Connally's "gurney", and that
Connally ALSO said the bullet fell from his gurney??

That is not something anyone would have just assumed. The intuitive
presumption would be that the bullet was recovered in surgery.

>
> The exact same kind of "Fragments become a whole bullet" mistake that has
> plagued the Sibert/O'Neill FBI report undoubtedly also occurred with
> respect to any comments about a whole "bullet" that were made by Henry
> Wade, Bobby Nolan, Audrey Bell, or anyone else associated with those
> bullet fragments which became Warren Commission Exhibit No. 842.

So, tell me more about your theory, David.

Did Bell just forget that that a few minutes earlier, she placed four
tiny fragments into an envelope and labelled it as containing multiple
frags from the arm??

Or did she correctly tell Wade and Nolan that these were fragments,
taken from surgery, but they misunderstood her, thinking she said it was
a whole bullet, from Connally's "gurney"?

And was it just a coincidence, that Connally also thought the bullet
fell from his gurney?

Did Bell suffer an hallucination when she denied the FBI's claim that
she said she gave fragments to Nolan, and stated that she gave them to
two plain-clothed agents in her office?

And where is the receipt which contained the name of at least one of
those agents, and had to have been confiscated by the FBI in order to
confirm the chain of possession??

The ARRB couldn't find it and neither can anyone else.





Robert Harris

[Anthony Marsh]

On 7/5/2014 11:35 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
> ANTHONY MARSH SAID:
>
> Wonderful. Tell everybody about the fragments that were NOT removed from
> Connally's body, especially the one fragment that didn't match either
> group.
>
>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
> That makes no sense at all. If a certain fragment was NOT removed from
> JBC's body, then how can you say it "didn't match either group"?
>

I am not the one who said it doesn't match either group. The FBI did.
Ask them. You obviously never read the documents I upload. Others do and
will hold you accountable.

http://the-puzzle-palace.com/FBI_3452.tif

NB the date. Exactly 50 years ago today.
How long must the cover-up last? Another 100 years? Is that long enough
for you?

> You think a fragment that Connally took to his grave could be tested in
> some manner?
>

I didn't say this fragment is still in Connally in his grave.
I didn't say HOW it was tested.
I didn't say HOW it should be tested today.
I said the government will NOT test it because it might destroy your
beloved SBT and then it's GAME OVER.
You can't devise a three shot, three hit scenario with a SBT.

> ~big shrug~
>

[David Von Pein]

ROBERT HARRIS SAID:

Or did she [Nurse Bell] correctly tell Wade and Nolan that these were

fragments, taken from surgery, but they misunderstood her, thinking she
said it was a whole bullet, from Connally's "gurney"?

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

That explanation you just laid out seems like the most reasonable one to
believe, yes.

Somebody misunderstood something, that's for sure. Just like the corpsman
who wrote up the "missile" memo that ended up in the Sibert/O'Neill
report.

A simple, ordinary misunderstanding and/or miscommunication. Nothing more
than that. Nothing sinister. No underhanded motives on anyone's behalf.
That's the best explanation.

Plus, we know that Bobby Nolan never saw the contents of the envelope at
all. Didn't he tell you personally, Robert, in a phone call that he only
saw the envelope and never saw what was inside the envelope?

P.S. -- My perfect memory is a thing that has long since left me, so when
you said that WADE delivered a "bullet" to Fritz at the DPD, I had not
remembered our previous debates where you, Robert Harris, had always said
it was NOLAN who took the bullet to City Hall. Now that you reminded me, I
do recall that you've always maintained it was Nolan, not Wade, who
"delivered" the envelope to Captain Fritz. But, as the evidence clearly
shows, Nolan didn't deliver any WHOLE bullet to Fritz. He delivered
fragments only.

[David Von Pein]

ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

I am not the one who said it doesn't match either group. The FBI did. Ask
them. You obviously never read the documents I upload. Others do and will
hold you accountable.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

The link you provided wouldn't work for me. It says I need to install
QuickTime, which I've already got, so that's a nice piece of sheer spite
aimed only at my computer it seems. (Probably a QuickTime conspiracy.)
~shrug~

Anyway, I'm confused by what you're saying about the fragments. Are you
talking about one of the two front-seat fragments, which was re-examined
about 14 years ago?

[Anthony Marsh]

On 7/6/2014 7:47 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
> ANTHONY MARSH SAID:
>
> I am not the one who said it doesn't match either group. The FBI did. Ask
> them. You obviously never read the documents I upload. Others do and will
> hold you accountable.
>
>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
> The link you provided wouldn't work for me. It says I need to install
> QuickTime, which I've already got, so that's a nice piece of sheer spite
> aimed only at my computer it seems. (Probably a QuickTime conspiracy.)
> ~shrug~
>

Talk about paranoid, folks!
Yes, I tested every other computer in the world and found that YOURS was
the only one not smart enough to be able to see it. That's why I created
it in a TIF which you never heard of.
Maybe this is your first time on the big bad Internet and you need
someone to hold your hand. Never fall for those tricks where your
browser tells you to install some strange software.
Always download it directly from the publisher. Do not download it from
a third party or you will get a virus. The best thing to do is DOWNLOAD
it and then look for a program which can handle that file format.
So, why did I chose the TIF format for that file? Because it is what
they call an ARCHIVAL format. Not compressed, not altered. I didn't want
any of the jokers here claiming that I tampered with it. Which is why
the JFK Library scans documents in TIF at 300 DPI.

> Anyway, I'm confused by what you're saying about the fragments. Are you
> talking about one of the two front-seat fragments, which was re-examined
> about 14 years ago?
>

No, a differente fragment which was removed from Connally and tested
which did not match either the Magic Bullet or the 2 large fragments
found in the front seat area. The mystery is WHERE was the fragment in
Connally which they removed. The cover-up is scratching out the name of
the part of the body where it was found.