Somebody Call The Delusional Police!

[David Von Pein]

I've gone back through [a certain 2010] Education Forum thread and have
compiled the following list of "Really Stupid Things" that James DiEugenio
has said in the thread, which is a thread that probably should be renamed:
"A Wild Imagination Come To Life".

Some of these allegations are so incredibly bizarre and goofy, that
DiEugenio should be embarrassed to write them down. But, of course, he's
not embarrassed in the least. And DiEugenio's bald-faced lies about Ruth
Paine border on slander. Jim is truly pathetic. He sees (and finds)
conspiracy and cover-up everywhere.

It's no wonder Vincent Bugliosi decided not to address all of these
idiotic issues that Jim "Anybody But Oswald" DiEugenio has raised in this
thread. Most of these things are so ridiculous and outlandish that even
most conspiracy theorists don't buy them (the "CIA" rumors concerning Ruth
Paine to name a prime example).

Let's now take an inventory of some (but certainly not all) of the really
stupid things uttered by James DiEugenio in this Education Forum thread
(aka: a "Boxed Set Of Balderdash And Bullshit"), which are quoted passages
coming from the lips of a person, keep in mind, who actually believes
President Kennedy's and J.D. Tippit's murderer--Lee Harvey Oswald--was
TOTALLY INNOCENT of shooting either one of those men on November 22, 1963.
That type of foundational delusional belief is important to note right up
front, prior to posting a list of silliness like the one I have presented
below:


JIM DiEUGENIO: "Let us not forget that Ruth Paine was a major witness for
him [Vincent Bugliosi] at that phony London trial he talks up so much.
.... They [Ruth and Michael Paine] were actually spies. And they may have
been spying on Oswald. ....

"VB [Vince Bugliosi] dismissed as "slim pickings" absolutely essential
evidence that paints the Paines not as the Good Samaritans they try and
come off as, but as domestic surveillance agents. Again, as I have shown,
he had to have known better. .... When she [Ruth Paine] separated Marina
from Lee, was she not just coming down from a visit to her sister in Falls
Church, which adjoins Langley? ....

"I produced a list of 18 items of provable evidence demonstrating to any
objective person that the Paines were domestic surveillance agents. It's
your problem if you want to deny that for political purposes. To say
Michael [Paine] was peripheral is to ignore his role in the Minox camera
caper. Which you do. If you want to also forget about Ruth's near
confession, well hey, some people live in denial. ....

"In fact her role was so obvious in separating Marina from Lee and
producing dubious exhibits that the Secret Service decided to pull Marina
from her because it was clear Ruth was CIA. Clear to everyone except DVP.
That's quite [a] lot of evidence to be oblivious to, Davey."


DVP INTERJECTION: Big LOL. Oh, sure, Jimbo. I'm the ONLY person on the
planet who thinks that Ruth Paine was not a "domestic surveillance agent"
for the CIA. Right, Jim? You're delusional (again).


JIM D.: "Another person who DVP props up as an objective authority on this
case is Gary Mack/Larry Dunkel. In fact, today he [DVP] serves as a funnel
for the Fable Guy to drop information, some would say disinformation, at
this forum."


DVP: Sixth Floor Museum curator Gary Mack, of course, is one of the most
knowledgeable and courteous and forthright JFK researchers who has ever
lived. I suspect the reason DiEugenio enjoys verbally bashing Gary over
the head continuously is because Gary dares to speak the truth about Lee
Harvey Oswald being a double-murderer (gasp!). That kind of belief, of
course, is taboo amongst the Anybody-But-Oswald conspiracy mongers like
Jimbo.

For the record, Gary Mack told me this via e-mail recently:

"Just to confirm, as we've discussed before, I still believe the HSCA
acoustics finding of two gunmen was correct and that Badge Man appears to
be a gunman. They are my personal theories, which of course I leave at
home and do not allow them to influence my historical work for The Sixth
Floor Museum." -- Gary Mack; Via e-mail message to David Von Pein on
August 21, 2010


JIM D.: "There are books you read on this case where, afterwards, you feel
like a better human being or more empowered, e.g., JFK and the
Unspeakable, Spy Saga."


JIM D.: "[Jean] Davison is such a lousy researcher, she doesn't know she
is trapped. .... Unless you stop hiding behind Davison's crummy book and
address these facts, we will all know who the idiot is. .... When you
can't answer relevant questions and rely on someone as bereft as Jean
Davison, you are lost."


JIM D.: "Davey, did you forget what Wesley [Liebeler] told Sylvia [Odio]?
The most honest thing any WC guy ever said: [Earl] Warren said that any
trace of conspiracy was to be covered up. Just wanted to remind you in
case you forgot."


JIM D.: "The evidence and testimony indicates that [FBI Director J. Edgar]
Hoover fabricated the June 12 report in order to pacify the Commission's
fears about the provenance of CE 399."


JIM D.: "[Robert] Frazier composed a document entitled "History of
Evidence". On the top line he wrote that he received the bullet from
[Elmer] Todd at 7:30 PM. And Frazier wrote another document. It was called
"Laboratory Work Sheet". This also certifies that he got the bullet from
Todd at 7:30. It describes it as "Bullet from Stretcher". .... Todd wrote
down the time as 8:50 PM. Question for the Prosecutor: How could Todd have
given CE 399 to Frazier before he got it from Rowley?"


DVP: A big problem here with DiEugenio's theory about the stretcher bullet
is this: The Mannlicher-Carcano rifle which fired Bullet CE399 was not yet
in the possession of the FBI in Washington as of EITHER ONE of the two
times noted in the official reports (7:30 PM EST or 8:50 PM EST).

Oswald's Carcano rifle, which was positively the gun that fired CE399, was
still in Dallas, Texas, at 7:30 and 8:50 EST. Therefore, the CE399 bullet
that Robert A. Frazier marked with his initials could not possibly have
been a "substitute" bullet that was fired through Oswald's rifle by the
FBI at some point before it was received into evidence by Frazier. And
that's because the FBI simply did not have the rifle in its possession
until approximately 11:45 PM CST on Friday night, November 22 (12:45 AM
EST on Saturday morning).

And the rifle actually didn't arrive in Washington, D.C., until a few
hours after midnight. Obviously, it had to be flown to Washington from
Dallas and then transported to the FBI's lab in Washington, all of which
took considerable additional time too, of course.

So, does Jim DiEugenio think the FBI in Washington had possession of Oswald's C2766 Carcano rifle at some time PRIOR to 11:45 PM CST on Friday? Because if they didn't have possession of that gun at an earlier time, then how could Robert Frazier have taken possession (and marked with his initials) a "fake" or "substitute" bullet that was fired BY THE FBI in that exact rifle PRIOR to 11:45 PM on Friday?

Or, as an alternative, I suppose DiEugenio could always say that the FBI's Robert Frazier was a liar too, with Frazier only pretending to receive (and mark) CE399 at a time that was much earlier than when the FBI gained possession of Oswald's rifle.

But if Frazier and the FBI as a whole were liars about the entire CE399 affair -- then why didn't they merely fudge the paperwork to eliminate the time discrepancy regarding the stretcher bullet?

Silly plotters indeed. But Jim DiEugenio is even sillier to believe the cloak-and-dagger nonsense he says he believes concerning the FBI and Warren Commission Exhibit No. 399.


JIM D.: "In Part 1 of this [Bugliosi book review] series I showed beyond a reasonable doubt that the FBI switched the bullets in the Gen. Walker case in order to incriminate Oswald in that shooting attempt. It is now shown--also beyond a reasonable doubt--that the Bureau pulled a similar trick with CE 399. Either the bullet was switched or a second bullet was made to disappear."


DVP: DiEugenio's delusional gene is on full display once again here. Just because General Edwin A. Walker said that CE573 did not look like the bullet that was recovered from his Dallas home in April 1963, Jim DiEugenio thinks that is ironclad PROOF that CE573 is yet another bullet that was "switched" by the evil FBI in order to railroad poor, innocent Lee Oswald in another murder attempt.

DiEugenio must, therefore, overcome this FBI report, which is an FBI report that is part of Warren Commission Exhibit No. 2011 [at 24 H 414]. The report says the following:

"On June 12, 1964, Exhibit C148, a mutilated rifle slug, was shown to Billy Gene Norvell, former Dallas police officer, 1603 Darr Street, Apartment 147, Irving, Texas, by Special Agent Bardwell D. Odum, Federal Bureau of Investigation. He identified this exhibit as the same one which he had found at the residence of Major General Edwin A. Walker, Dallas, Texas, on April 10, 1963, and identified his marking on this slug."

DiEugenio very likely believes that Norvell's identification of CE573 (aka C148) is just another one of the thousands of lies told by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, right Jimbo? And when Norvell said he IDENTIFIED HIS OWN INITIALS on Walker bullet CE573/C148, that was yet another bald-faced lie, right Jimmy D.?


JIM D.: "Here is another howler by VB. In his End Notes, in a footnote on page 426, note how he addresses the whole "which stretcher was the bullet found on[?]" issue, an issue of profound and overarching implications in its importance. This is how he addresses that issue: "a stretcher whose origin remains a little vague". I kid you not. Check it yourself. This is one of the most ridiculous phrases in the whole book. For after a long and illustrated analysis, Tink Thompson wrote in SSD ["Six Seconds In Dallas"] that the weight of the evidence indicates that the bullet was not found on either JFK's gurney or JBC's, but on a little boy's named Ron Fuller."


DVP: Vince Bugliosi's handling of the stretcher issue is not "ridiculous" at all, Jim. His analysis of this issue is based on common sense and logic. Vince knows about the confusion surrounding the stretchers (via Darrell Tomlinson's testimony). But Vince also knows that Tomlinson told the Warren Commission over and over again that he was "not sure" which of the two stretchers he had taken off of the elevator at Parkland on 11/22/63.

But Tomlinson's Warren Commission testimony means zilch to a person like Jim DiEugenio, however. Because Jim thinks Arlen Specter was literally putting words in Darrell Tomlinson's mouth here. But it's testimony that is in the official record nonetheless, whether Mr. ABO/DiEugenio likes it or not:

ARLEN SPECTER -- "What did you tell the Secret Service man about which stretcher you took off of the elevator?"

DARRELL TOMLINSON -- "I told him that I was not sure, and I am not--I'm not sure of it, but as I said, I would be going against the oath which I took a while ago, because I am definitely not sure."

MR. SPECTER -- "Do you remember if you told the Secret Service man which stretcher you thought you took off of the elevator?"

MR. TOMLINSON -- "Well, we talked about taking a stretcher off of the elevator, but then when it comes down on an oath, I wouldn't say for sure, I really don't remember." ....

MR. SPECTER -- "You say you can't really take an oath today to be sure whether it was stretcher A or stretcher B that you took off the elevator?"

MR. TOMLINSON -- "Well, today or any other day, I'm just not sure of it, whether it was A or B that I took off."


JIM D.: "On page 51 of the ["Reclaiming History"] End Notes, VB says that even if T. F. Bewley [sic; Bowley] was right about the time of Tippit being killed as 1:10 or earlier, it does not matter, since we know LHO killed him. Now if you know the evidence in the Tippit shooting, what Bugliosi is saying is that Oswald killed Tippit even if he wasn't there!"


DVP: Bugliosi's statement about T.F. Bowley's obviously inaccurate 1:10 time for the Tippit murder is perfectly reasonable and correct....and that's because all REASONABLE people know that Lee Harvey Oswald killed Officer J.D. Tippit. My gosh, Oswald's guilt in the Tippit killing is even more obvious and definitive than is LHO's guilt in the murder of JFK, which is also pretty obvious from the sum total of the physical evidence and Oswald's own actions that day.

Once again, Mr. Bugliosi was using common sense and the totality of the evidence against Oswald when Vince said what he said about Bowley on Page 51 of the "RH" endnotes.

And, like always, Jim DiEugenio refuses to activate his "common sense" gene. Jim, instead, prefers to swim in a river of fragmented and piecemeal guesswork, speculation, rumors, and unconfirmed timelines when it comes to solving the murder of Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit.


JIM D.: "Almost pathetic. I take it back. It is pathetic. He [Chief Justice Earl Warren] wants to snuff out any other investigation for his own, which is essentially in his vision's, the FBI's. He does not want to run the risk of say, a Rose Cheramie testifying in public hearings. But if that happened, they would do all they could to discredit her and protect the public from the uncomfortable and unsettling thought that JFK was killed by a conspiracy. In other words, they would play the defense attorney for any possible plotters. A truly unbelievable performance by a guy who is supposed to be protecting the fairness and sanctity of the judicial process."


DVP: Yeah, sure, Jim. Sure. DiEugenio acts as though NOBODY at all testified in front of the Warren Commission who believed that a conspiracy existed in JFK's murder (or gave testimony that had a "conspiracy" ring to it).

Jim wants to conveniently forget about witnesses like S.M. Holland, and Roger Craig, and Arnold Rowland, and Jean Hill, and Mark Lane, and Nellie Connally, and Roy Kellerman, and Dean Andrews, and Wilma Tice, and Clyde Haygood, and Clint Hill, and Lee Bowers (who was really not a "conspiracy" type witness at all, of course, but CTers think he was).

Plus there were many other witnesses I didn't mention above who gave testimony or statements to the Warren Commission that pointed in the general direction of conspiracy (or at least toward the direction of PERCEIVED conspiracy).


JIM D.: "As per the record of the DPD, yes not all the evidence was secured by them. But some hotly disputed evidence was: the Tippit ballistics in which the chain of possession was broken wide open in each aspect; the five bullets "found" on Oswald after he was fast frisked and nothing was there; the phony lineups which even witnesses complained about; the confusion about which rifle was actually found at the TSBD and where it was found; the print that did not exist in Washington but miraculously appeared back in Dallas, etc. This record dovetails with the exposed history of the Dallas Police. Which VB NEVER mentions."


DVP: Talk about a laundry list of conspiracy-flavored garbage -- the above list is it. All of those things that DiEugenio apparently thinks are legitimate reasons to believe in a conspiracy were answered a long time ago in non-conspiratorial ways. (Except maybe the silly "fast frisk" business, which I don't think I had even heard about until recently. But it's obviously totally unimportant, because not even cops who WERE trying to frame Oswald would have any desire to plant some additional revolver bullets in his pocket. The police already had taken the murder weapon out of the killer's very own hands just 35 minutes after J.D. Tippit was killed. Why would there be a need to plant some superfluous bullets on the killer? It's just plain silly. But not to an "Anybody But Oswald" club member like James DiEugenio.)


JIM D.: "[J. Edgar] Hoover...covered up the Odio evidence from the start to the finish. .... The FBI cover-up started by the end of the first day. .... Hoover falsified the documents. .... Hoover substituted CE 399 for the actual bullet that was found by Tomlinson and Wright. He had to do that when the DPD decided on the Carcano as the rifle. (After considering first the Enfield and the Mauser.) It was that substitution that allowed Specter and Humes to arrange the Single Bullet Fantasy. ....

"Clearly, Hoover was having problems selling CE 399 to the Commission as part of the Single Bullet Fantasy. So what he tried to do in this memo [CE2011] was to trace back the chain of transfer of the exhibit. .... In this same document, on the same page, it is said that this bullet was shown to Tomlinson and Wright at Parkland. Wright was not sure and Tomlinson said it appeared to be the same projectile. But Hoover screwed up here. He named the agent who showed them the bullet. When Gary Aguilar and Tink Thompson visited FBI agent Bardwell Odum in 2001, this was exposed as a lie. Odum did no such thing. So this incident was manufactured by Hoover since he knew that the two Secret Service agents had broken the chain. .... Recall what Hoover did with CE 2011--he lied twice about CE 399 in it."


DVP: Jim's got his "delusional" hat on again, I see. DiEugenio cannot prove that a single document was "falsified" by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, but that won't stop Jimbo from accusing Hoover of such vile tactics.

But we must all keep in mind one of the simple, basic rules about being a JFK conspiracy theorist -- If the theorist alleges that something has been "proven" (such as when DiEugenio boldly proclaims as the Gospel truth that "Hoover falsified the documents"), then it definitely HAS been "proven" in the mind of the conspiracy theorist. (Even though, in reality, the theorist hasn't "proven" any such thing, of course.)

Vincent Bugliosi said it quite nicely when he said this in his 2007 JFK book:

"The conspiracy community regularly seizes on one slip of the tongue, misunderstanding, or slight discrepancy to defeat twenty pieces of solid evidence; accepts one witness of theirs, even if he or she is a provable nut, as being far more credible than ten normal witnesses on the other side; treats rumors, even questions, as the equivalent of proof; leaps from the most minuscule of discoveries to the grandest of conclusions; and insists that the failure to explain everything perfectly negates all that is explained." -- VB; Page xliii


JIM D.: "This is almost funny [Jim "ABO" DiEugenio is referring here to James Hosty's testimony at the 1986 TV trial in London, "On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald"]. .... This is almost as funny as the Wesley Frazier appearance. Keep them coming Dave. You are demonstrating what a farce this whole thing [the '86 docu-trial] was."


DVP: Take note of how DiEugenio subtly alleges that Buell Wesley Frazier was telling lies when he testified at that same 1986 TV trial in London. DiEugenio has no choice but to believe Frazier was telling some lies HERE, because Jimbo doesn't think Lee Oswald carried any large paper bag into the TSBD at all on the morning of 11/22/63.

That's the type of delusional mindset we're dealing with when we deal with James DiEugenio. We're actually dealing with a person who thinks BOTH Buell Wesley Frazier AND Linnie Mae Randle were lying when they each said (over and over again, especially Frazier, who was interviewed many times after the assassination) that they saw Oswald carrying a big paper package on November 22nd.


JIM D.: "The CE 399 at NARA never went anywhere. And John Hunt, among others, proved it. So please stop with these WC lies. .... CE 399 has already been exposed as a fraud. And the FBI knew it was fraud the day it happened. And we can prove that also."


JIM D.: "So from the beginning, with its reverse trajectory out of the thigh of JBC, to its incredible tunneling under a mat, to its leaping out of Ron Fuller's stretcher and magically knowing it has to be on JBC's, to its shocking ability to alter its form and color, and then to actually crack the time barrier and be in Frazier's office before Todd gives it to him, the Impossible Journey of CE 399 is even more magical than anyone ever could imagine. Except maybe Dave Von Pein. .... The CE 399 we know was not found at Parkland. And that ends this argument."


DVP: It's the end of the CE399 argument for DiEugenio, even though the HSCA, just like the Warren Commission did, said that that exact bullet (CE399) was THE bullet that caused all seven (non-fatal) wounds to John Kennedy and John Connally in Dealey Plaza.

The fact that BOTH the Warren Commission AND the House Select Committee endorsed THAT EXACT BULLET (CE399) as being the "Single-Bullet Theory" bullet (and endorsed the SBT as being true as well) means nothing to Jimbo DiEugenio. Nothing at all. Go figure. The HSCA got it ALL WRONG too.

So, according to conspiracists like Jim D., the Government must have been filled with nothing but boobs and idiots and liars when it came to CE399, the SBT, and the assassination of President Kennedy. In both 1964 AND in 1978, too. Amazing.


JIM D.: "It's not my job to come up with an "alternative theory" [to the SBT], Davey. I'm the defense."


DVP: I feel your pain, Jimmy. Coming up with a believable and reasonable conspiracy-endorsing alternative to the WC's single-bullet conclusion is something that simply cannot be done. And that's mainly because the SBT is obviously the truth. And when you try to dismantle the truth and replace it with some kind of half-baked, incoherent "alternative theory" (such as the "TWO BULLETS WENT INTO JFK AND NEVER EXITED AND THEN DISAPPEARED" claptrap), you're not likely to find the alternative to be nearly as compelling (or reasonable) as the truth.


JIM D.: "The lengths that an inveterate VB/WC apologist will go to to cover things up. They [Kennedy and Connally] are not reacting at the same time. How could they be? CE 399 never existed. So they are hit by separate bullets. Kennedy is reacting before he disappears behind the sign. .... JBC does not react until around frame 237."


DVP: Truly hilarious. Especially when watching the following Zapruder Film clips a few times, back-to-back, which clearly show the two victims reacting at exactly the same time (an instant after Z224). Jimbo thinks John Connally's reactions prior to Z237 are merely a mirage.

Or maybe Jimbo would like to blame J. Edgar Hoover for these JBC reactions too. Edgar gets the blame for about everything else in this case. Why not this too? Perhaps Hoover doctored the film to make it falsely appear that Connally was reacting to being shot as early as Z225, even though Jimbo says he cannot see JBC's obvious reactions starting at Z225. Perhaps Jim has been watching a different film all these years:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/02/sbt-clips.html


JIM D.: "[Arlen] Specter knew he could get away with anything. He didn't give a damn about probing for facts. .... So not only did the WC not provide for any kind of equal justice for Oswald, they then started with conclusions that they tried to, at times, ram down witnesses' throats. To the point of browbeating them, harassing them, threatening them, and rewriting their testimony."


DVP: Unbelievable. Do you think that Jimbo actually believes the total crap he's written here (and elsewhere)?

Amazing.


JIM D.: "The SBT was a hoax that Specter and Humes knew they had to have to make this fraud work and please their respective masters--the Commission and the military. Since Specter knew it was all a fraud he knew there would be no cross examination--which would have turned into a humiliation of his goofy theory."


JIM D.: "But Specter was too concerned about keeping the medical and ballistics cover-up intact and punching his own ticket."


JIM D.: "It [CE399] was not found on JBC's gurney. It was on Ron Fuller's. And CE 399 was not the bullet that Tomlinson and Wright found. And they have testified to that [DiEugenio is lying here; Tomlinson and Wright never "testified" in any official fashion to any such thing]. And the FBI told Tomlinson to be quiet about it."


JIM D.: "The SBF ["Single-Bullet Fantasy", per Delusional DiEugenio] was never meant to be taken seriously. It was developed out of expediency to solve a political problem. It is simply not feasible or defensible. Ever. And if the WC had taken care to protect Oswald's rights, it would have never survived any kind of true fact-finding or adversary process. This is why the Commission was neither one. The SBF is the sine qua non of the Commission. But it is a transparent illusion in every aspect. Down to the fact that the bullet the WC says was used in the flight path was not even fired in Dealey Plaza. Because of this transparent illusion, the WC itself proves conspiracy."


JIM D.: "The SBF is a made-to-order loser."


JIM D.: "This gets back to the function of the WC. In the real world this is called "witness coaching". And as you can ask any lawyer, this is outside the canon of legal ethics. But again Specter knew that there was no judge or defense to call him on it. Therefore he could get away with it. And with people like Dulles, Ford, and McCloy in tow, hey why not do it?"


JIM D.: "[Dr. James] Humes was being used as a lying pawn by the Justice Department to stem the rising tide against the WR."


JIM D.: "Everyone knows what happened to the HSCA. Originally created as a populist response to the showing of the Zapruder film on national TV, and a couple of other issues, it was derailed in Congress by interference by lobbyists for the FBI and CIA. And I got that from the the horse's mouth: Tom Downing, the first chairman. ....

"The other thing that happened is that once Sprague and Tanenbaum made it clear they were going to conduct a no holds barred inquiry, the media began to attack them fiercely. Sprague had announced he was going to find out what Oswald was doing in Mexico City, that he was going to do a real test of the SBF in public, that he wanted to know why the Commission did not believe Sylvia Odio, he wanted all the CIA files on Oswald's defection plus the military files on their false defector program. And this was all to be done in public.

"Now with that kind of investigation, the fraud of CE 399 was not going to last long. And so the MSM realized, "Hey we got to get this guy before he humiliates us for swallowing this crap". And they did. ....

"Once Blakey came in, this was mostly dropped. Or if it was done, it was classified, like the Lopez Report. Or, as with Oswald and the defector program, it was rewritten by others who Blakey handpicked to stay behind to finish the report and edit the volumes. ....

"Now go ahead and find if there is any topic heading in the report about the "Provenance of CE 399". There isn't. Blakey decided to stick with the WC cover story about Oswald. Except it was slightly modified: now it was Oswald plus some guy on the knoll who missed. (If you have ever been there, which you probably have not, it is almost impossible to believe that Oswald hit his shots, but the guy on the knoll missed. BTW, I mean from the real point behind the fence, not Gary Mack's BS point.)

"He then decided to spin his little conspiracy into an "Oswald Did it for the Mob" hypothesis. Yeah, Trafficante and Marcello hired a guy who couldn't hit a deer from 15 yards away and had him use a $12.97 piece of shit rifle with a manual bolt action. When these guys could have hired some of the best professional hit men in America.

"That is what happened to the HSCA. Blakey was the perfect fit to salvage an inquiry that the Powers That Be decided had gotten out of control. And he put it back in MSM cover up land. With Mafia sex appeal."


DVP: Jim is unraveling at a rapid pace. Somebody call The Delusional Police, quick! Either that, or call the Funny Farm. Jim needs them badly.

I'll close this post by repeating something I said earlier in this Education Forum thread (which is just as true as ever):

"Bugliosi's book DOES answer all of the major, substantive, and important questions regarding the JFK case. No doubt about that fact. But if a person like Jim DiEugenio (who is bent on promoting the chaff instead of the wheat regarding this murder case) gets ahold of a lone-assassin book like "Reclaiming History", I'm not surprised at all that he can find something in it (or omitted from it!) that he can use to support his very strange "Anybody But Oswald" hobby." -- David Von Pein; August 22, 2010

David Von Pein
September 2010

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/dvp-vs-dieugenio-complete-series.html

[mainframetech]

As usual, the information on CE399 put out by DVP is in error. That
was a test bullet that came from as testing set run on the next day after
the murder by the bullet custodian. He was able to collect over 60
bullets that were fired by the MC rifle into various materials giving
quite a horde of MC rifle bullets that could be used anywhere, like in
place of CE399. Later when there was doubt expressed about CE399, it was
shown to 4 men that had handled the ORIGINAL bullet from the WRONG gurney
at Parkland, and they all refused to ID it, and one of them actually said
it was the wrong shape, that it was round nosed, when the original bullet
was pointy nosed.

Here are a few bullets photoed by the WC:

http://www.jfk-info.com/Exf294.gif

In viewing the bullets we have the CE399 bullet first, then 2 views of
a test bullet (CE572). The CE399 and the test bullet both have slightly
flattened and bent middles, and they both have a bit of material missing
from the tail end. The CE399 is now a test bullet and the ORIGINAL is
gone.

Chris

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

On Friday, January 27, 2017 at 4:18:15 PM UTC-5, David Von Pein wrote:

Hi David,

This is off the topic, but I apologize for reaching out to you in this
manner. I don't have your email address.

Ben Holmes quotes you in his forum here
(http://conspiracyjfkforum.com/Thread-Does-All-The-Evidence-Point-To-Lee-Harvey-Oswald)
as saying somewhere (I could not find a link to your post): "Josiah
Thompson stated it very well to Hank at a conference many years ago when
he referred to 'the weakness of our position" If only the arrogant critics
in this forum had such honesty and integrity."

I don't recall ever saying that, anywhere, to anyone. I did have a
conversation with David Lifton about Governor Connally's wounds at a
conference in Dallas in the early 1990's, and pointed out that Connally's
wounds point to the rear of the limo. It is of course Lifton's thesis from
BEST EVIDENCE that all the shooters were in front of the limo. I asked
Lifton if he could explain how Governor Connally was shot from behind with
all the shooters in front of the limo, and he replied that "I'll cover
that in my next book". Twenty-five years later, I am still waiting.

I don't recall ever speaking with Thompson, nor debating the issue with
him via the internet at any time.

I think you have me confused with someone else, you know someone else
named Hank who spoke with Thompson, or you're misremembering what I said.

Hank Sienzant

[Anthony Marsh]

He was just being silly. The acoustical evidence rules out Badge Man.
Gary Mark was one of the biggest liars in this case.

[OHLeeRedux]

"One of"? I'm sure you've given him a run for his money.

[David Von Pein]

No, Hank, it's Ben Holmes who was confused. He had me confused with
someone else. The quotes he attributed to me that you cited above were not
uttered by me at all. And I told Ben that very thing on June 1, 2016, at
Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/forum/history/ref=cm_cd_et_md_pl?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx33HXI3XVZDC8G&cdMsgID=Mx3MJYF3AQOB29S&cdMsgNo=8883&cdPage=356&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=TxWDSFVL4TBHM9#Mx3MJYF3AQOB29S

Here's what I said to Ben on 6/1/16:

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

"Message to Ben Holmes (who I know is reading this [Amazon] forum
daily)....

The quotes you attribute to me in the following message at your new forum
were not written by me at all. They were written by Dale Hayes (second
link below [which was deleted by Amazon in Aug. 2016; Amazon loves
deleting posts in bulk batches when people say words that are taboo; and I
guess that happened to Dale H. Hayes]).

I realize that about all you can do at a new inactive start-up forum is to
take posts written elsewhere (like Amazon) and insert them into posts at
your forum (so you'll at least have *somebody* to talk back to), but it
would be nice if you could at least attribute the quotes to the correct
person who was speaking. (Or are Dale & I supposed to be the same person
again this week?)"

http://web.archive.org/web/20160601164124/http://conspiracyjfkforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13&sid=17cb8d87f40ed71779253192dac4cb21

http://www.amazon.com/forum/history/ref=cm_cd_et_md_pl?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx33HXI3XVZDC8G&cdMsgID=Mx31ZABG5HVDXYO&cdMsgNo=8752&cdPage=351&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=TxWDSFVL4TBHM9#Mx31ZABG5HVDXYO

[BOZ]

The acoustical evidence rules out a second shooter.

[stevemg...@yahoo.com]

On Friday, January 27, 2017 at 4:18:15 PM UTC-5, David Von Pein wrote:

I particularly liked the "Ruth went to Falls Church and that's near
Langley therefore that's evidence that she was with the CIA".

That's some real scholarly research there, Mr. DiEugenio. You must have
spent weeks finding that gem.

[Anthony Marsh]

You may be thinking of the Midwest Symposium in Chicago.
No one could pin down Lifton on his all shots from the grassy knoll.
But after that session I cornered him and asked how his shooters from
the front could cause the dent of the chrome topping. He had no
explanation and simply denied that the dent was caused during the
shooting. The limo was built that way with a dent.
I don't remember any Hank, but there were a couple of WC defenders there
using aliases.

[Anthony Marsh]

So you have to somehow claim that Frazier created it on Saturday and then
used a time machine to go back to Friday and get it on the plane. He took
a photo of the bullet on Friday night. So he then had to take a photo on
Saturday and go back to Friday to attach it to his evidence sheet. Your
theory requires too much time travel. I wish I had a cute expression to
cover this logical error like Goodwin's Law, but I don't think even the
Nazis here would try to obey Marsh's Law. Maybe we could call it Asimov's
Law.

> the murder by the bullet custodian. He was able to collect over 60

There you go again with your vague references. If you mean Robert
Frazier, just SAY Frazier. Don't try to blame the janitor.

> bullets that were fired by the MC rifle into various materials giving
> quite a horde of MC rifle bullets that could be used anywhere, like in
> place of CE399. Later when there was doubt expressed about CE399, it was
> shown to 4 men that had handled the ORIGINAL bullet from the WRONG gurney
> at Parkland, and they all refused to ID it, and one of them actually said
> it was the wrong shape, that it was round nosed, when the original bullet
> was pointy nosed.
>
> Here are a few bullets photoed by the WC:
>
> http://www.jfk-info.com/Exf294.gif
>
> In viewing the bullets we have the CE399 bullet first, then 2 views of
> a test bullet (CE572). The CE399 and the test bullet both have slightly
> flattened and bent middles, and they both have a bit of material missing
> from the tail end. The CE399 is now a test bullet and the ORIGINAL is
> gone.
>

Here is a photo that Frazier took of C-1 (CE 399) that he attached to the
evidence sheet on Friday night. Now ask the National Archives to send you
a copy of the original. Or ask OHLEEREDUX since he claims that I planted
it in the National Archives. (more time travel).

http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/FBI43646.jpg

> Chris
>

[Anthony Marsh]

Confirms. You just accidentally stipulated that the acoustical evidence
is valid science. They are going to kick you out of the cover-up.

[BOZ]

Marsh, did you tell Lifton that you proved the Zapruder film was
aunthentic and Piltdown Man (Rossley) was a hoax? Lifton is mentally
handicapped. I read his science fiction book Mediocre Evidence.

[BOZ]

Correction! The acoustical stuff is not evidence. I'm continuing the
coverup because i am a NAZI.

[Anthony Marsh]

No. The Midwest Symposium was in 1993.
I wrote my article on July 26, 1998. I had just bought the MPI video.

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

> > I think you have me confused with someone else, [unless] you know someone > > > else

> > named Hank who spoke with Thompson, or you're misremembering what I said.
> >
> > Hank Sienzant
> >
> >
>
> You may be thinking of the Midwest Symposium in Chicago.
> No one could pin down Lifton on his all shots from the grassy knoll.
> But after that session I cornered him and asked how his shooters from
> the front could cause the dent of the chrome topping. He had no
> explanation and simply denied that the dent was caused during the
> shooting. The limo was built that way with a dent.
> I don't remember any Hank, but there were a couple of WC defenders there
> using aliases.

You must have me confused with someone else. I know what conferences I
attended, and they were in Dallas in the early 1990's. I confronted Lifton
there about Connally. I used my real name there and on Prodigy & AOL when
I was posting there at about that time.

Hank

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

Thanks for the clarification, David.

[mainframetech]

Lifton, while he had some good ideas, had little evidence of what he
found. But since he wrote his book "Best Evidence", the evidence has been
found. Douglas Horne, as one of the ARRB investigators, was in on the
bottom floor with the ARRB sworn testimonies and evidence. His writings
uncover some of the large number of clues left by the plotters, and it's
all to be found in the ARRB files where bd dare not go...:)

Chris

[mainframetech]

Not really.

Chris

[bigdog]

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 2:11:26 PM UTC-5, mainframetech wrote:
>
> Lifton, while he had some good ideas, had little evidence of what he
> found. But since he wrote his book "Best Evidence", the evidence has been
> found. Douglas Horne, as one of the ARRB investigators, was in on the
> bottom floor with the ARRB sworn testimonies and evidence. His writings
> uncover some of the large number of clues left by the plotters, and it's
> all to be found in the ARRB files where bd dare not go...:)
>

Typical bassackwards conspiracy hobbyist way of approaching things. Start
with the premise and then go find the evidence to support it, throwing
away everything that refutes the premise along the way.

[mainframetech]

I see...you dared not go there once again! Had to change the subject
and run away! C'mon, give us some more opinions!

Chris