Belin Keeps Brennan in the Dark re the Wide-open Sniper's-Window

[donald willis]

Recently on these newsgroups, an LNer who shall remain nameless insisted
that Brennan's testimony re the wide open window at which he says that he
saw the shooter came *before* his testimony re seeing witnesses Norman &
Jarman below the window where he saw the sniper. This LNer mistakenly
cited Brennan's confusion over the building's **double windows** ("this is
more or less a long window with a divider in the middle"), page 143, which
does indeed come before Brennan's observation that "these were the two
colored boys that was on the 5th floor, or on the next floor underneath
the man that fired the gun" (p146). Supposedly, this sequence of
testimony--wide open windows/then, two witnesses on the floor
below--indicated that Brennan forgot his idea re the windows when he
located the witnesses below the shooter.

In fact, however, Brennan spoke about the wide open shooter's window
(p153) *after* he testified re the relative location of the two witnesses
& the shooter. Now, it seems, the implication is the reverse of that
suggested by this LNer, that Brennan, now, is *correcting* his *earlier*
testimony re the seeing the witnesses below the half-open "sniper's nest".

Brennan: "I don't recall this window at the time of the shooting being that
low".
Belin: "Now, by 'this window' you are pointing to the window on the SIXTH
FLOOR?"
Brennan: "Right". (p153)

Inexplicably, Belin keeps Brennan in a state of confusion by not telling
him that the photo at which he is looking--Commission Exhibit 481--was in
fact taken "at the time of the shooting", or seconds later, and thus
avoids a response like, "Well, that can't be. Didn't I just testify that
that window on the SIXTH FLOOR was NOT THAT LOW? You must have the wrong
photo".

Things become a bit more explicable, later on, when Belin says, "you saw
some Negroes on the fifth floor", and Brennan answers, "Yes". (p156)
Brennan can answer in the affirmative only because he thinks he's talking
about a photo of a shooter at a wide-open window, and witnesses also at
wide-open windows, which Belin neglected to inform him was supposedly not
the case, certainly not the case in the depiction of the scene in CE 481.

To get his way, Belin has to withhold information from his witness, and
does not allow him to correct, or at least puzzle over, his "A" on CE 481.

dcw

[JAMON F HERERRA]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/HowardBrennan.jpg

[JAMON F HERERRA]

On Friday, January 2, 2015 3:37:22 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jTmnYgFvqzM/Tvw3vTpzhsI/AAAAAAAABuI/QJ__Z34iHho/s1200-h/Howard-Brennan-Affidavit.gif

[bigdog]

On Friday, January 2, 2015 3:37:22 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote:

> Recently on these newsgroups, an LNer who shall remain nameless

No he won't. His name is John Corbett, aka bigdog, aka me.

Still trying to your pathetic attempts to claim Brennan did not correctly
identify the SE corner window on the 6th floor as the source of the shots?
Brennan never backed off which window he saw the shots fired from despite
his uncertainty regarding details of the configuration of that window. Why
would we expect Brennan to precisely remember those mundance details when
his attention would have been drawn to the figure in that window firing
the rifle at JFK. In addition, other witnesses pointed to the same window
and of course you will invent excuses to dismiss what they said as well as
you will invent reasons to believe the shells found at that window were
not left by the shooter. I guess after 51 years of futility trying to make
a case that someone other than Oswald was involved in the assassination of
JFK, you get desperate.

[donald willis]

And thank you for posting the photo with the "A" which Brennan was not
allowed to correct....

dcw

[David Von Pein]

BRENNAN AND THE WINDOWS.....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/01/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-575.html

[Anthony Marsh]

You are still confused. The point of contention has never been which
window. Only if Brennan saw Oswald actually shooting from that window.

[donald willis]

He was not "uncertain". Shown the "configuration" of the "sniper's nest"
window, circa 12:30pm, in CE 481, he *rejected* it. He testified that it
was, rather, wide open, & he directed counsel's attention to the windows
below. Now, you & I know that the photo was in fact taken about "the time
of the shooting", but, for some reason, Brennan did not. Oh, that's
right--the reason was that Belin didn't tell him! We'll never know how
Brennan might have reacted had he been told the truth, but Belin's top
priority was obviously not the truth.

Why
> would we expect Brennan to precisely remember those mundance details

Yeah, like *6th floor*

when
> his attention would have been drawn to the figure in that window firing
> the rifle at JFK. In addition, other witnesses pointed to the same window
> and of course you will invent excuses to dismiss what they said as well

Au contraire, I fully accept Jackson, Fischer, Couch, & Edwards when they
say that the window was WIDE OPEN ALL THE WAY (Fischer's words, I
believe)! In fact, let me guess, I'd bet *YOU* dismiss what they said!

as
> you will invent reasons to believe the shells found at that window were
> not left by the shooter.

We can't be sure *where* they were found since Fritz scooped 'em up.

I guess after 51 years of futility trying to make
> a case that someone other than Oswald was involved in the assassination of
> JFK, you get desperate.

Well, in my case, actually more like 18 years. And I guess "futility" and
"desperate" are in the eye of the beholder here....

dcw

[bigdog]

That's funny. When did Brennan ask to correct it. You are the only one who
thinks it needs corrected. Brennan sure didn't.

[JAMON F HERERRA]

On Saturday, January 3, 2015 6:27:17 PM UTC-5, David Von Pein wrote:
> BRENNAN AND THE WINDOWS.....
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/01/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-575.html

Howard Brennan's voluntary statement was altered. The windows were
altered, the sniper's nest wasn't really there, and it's all an opium
dream like ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA by Sergio Leone.

[donald willis]

Are you being willfully obtuse, bigdog? He did correct it--he testified
that the 6th-floor window was too "low", his word. He then corrected it
himself by pointing out the (higher) windows just below! Get with it,
man, get with it!

dcw

[donald willis]

On Saturday, January 3, 2015 3:27:17 PM UTC-8, David Von Pein wrote:
> BRENNAN AND THE WINDOWS.....
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/01/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-575.html

Not to the point, which is CE 481. & Brennan's CORRECTION designating that
he thought the window was higher, like the windows just *below* (p153).
Brennan wanted to see a photo taken about the time of the shooting.
Belin neglected to inform him that CE 481 had in fact been taken about the
time of the shooting.

dcw

[bigdog]

Thank you for once again demonstrating that you never bother to read or
understand a post or a thread before jumping in and giving us your two
cents worth (which for your BS is way overpriced). The point of contention
about which window the shots came from is exactly the point of this thread
started by Don. He has disputed whether Brennan actually pointed to the
6th floor window. If we agreed on that, there would be no point to this
thread or the previous thread referenced in the OP.

[David Von Pein]

The VERY SAME WINDOW was also declared the "ASSASSIN'S WINDOW" by people
other than Brennan.

Couch, Jackson, and Euins all saw a gun/pipe in that very same SE
6th-floor window.

Let's see the CTers discredit all of those people too. Give it a shot,
Donald Willis. Today's laugh is overdue.

[donald willis]

And the poster's name here was altered!

[bigdog]

Yeah, get with it. Tell us where he changed his mind about where he
thought the shots came from. How the hell could a shooter have been in
that window when the photo shows the two black men in those windows. You
make the ridiculous assumption that because the 6th floor window was not
configured the way he remembered it, Brennan changed his mind about which
floor the shots came from. He NEVER did that. That's all you and your
silly conspiracy hobbyist attempt to rewrite history.

[bigdog]

Don't worry. Don will.

[JAMON F HERERRA]

Yes, the poster's name was Sean Smiley.

[donald willis]

Bigdog got it right
dcw

[donald willis]

On Sunday, January 4, 2015 2:44:26 PM UTC-8, David Von Pein wrote:
> The VERY SAME WINDOW was also declared the "ASSASSIN'S WINDOW" by people
> other than Brennan.
>
> Couch, Jackson, and Euins all saw a gun/pipe in that very same SE
> 6th-floor window.

Interestingly, Euins was the only witness, I believe, who said that the window was only half-open. Of course, he also told reporters, initially, that the guy with the gun was "colored". Now, let's see who discredits Euins' initial observations.... Meanwhile, Couch testified that it was his "impression... that [the window] was all the way open...." v6p157

Like Brennan, Jackson actually rejected the 6th-floor "nest" window, in CE 348, when it came to showing how wide the window was open. First, he put his "A" on the "western half of the first double window". Then he drew Specter's attention to a "window on the 6th floor of the westernmost portion of the building open halfway as you have described it" (v2p159). Before you go hog wild, Von Pein, take a look at what Specter's calling a window "open halfway"--CE 348 shows that that westernmost window on the 6th floor is actually open as far as it could open. In casement windows, only the bottom pane opens, upwards, which may make it seem like it's only half open. But if it's half open, the "nest" window is a quarter open....

>
> Let's see the CTers discredit all of those people too. Give it a shot,
> Donald Willis. Today's laugh is overdue.

No, you just provided it.
dcw

[Anthony Marsh]

Not MY theory, but some kook claims that the two black men WERE the
shooters. And Euins thought the shooter was a black man because he saw
those two black men in the windows.

[David Von Pein]

Donald,

Are you *really* contending that NOBODY was shooting a gun out of the SE
6th-floor TSBD window at 12:30 PM CST on 11/22/63?

Really?

That's a riot.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 1/4/2015 5:44 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
> The VERY SAME WINDOW was also declared the "ASSASSIN'S WINDOW" by people
> other than Brennan.
>
> Couch, Jackson, and Euins all saw a gun/pipe in that very same SE
> 6th-floor window.
>

Yes, IN that window. Not sticking out. Not firing.

[Anthony Marsh]

Brennan did not point. Euins did.

[donald willis]

On Monday, January 5, 2015 5:50:56 PM UTC-8, Anth cut

> > Yeah, get with it. Tell us where he changed his mind about where he
> > thought the shots came from. How the hell could a shooter have been in
> > that window when the photo shows the two black men in those windows. You
>
> Not MY theory, but some kook claims that the two black men WERE the
> shooters. And Euins thought the shooter was a black man because he saw
> those two black men in the windows.
>

More likely, he thought a "colored man" was the shooter because he saw
only *one* black man up there. He did not say "colored men" were up
there....

dcw

[donald willis]

On Monday, January 5, 2015 5:56:36 PM UTC-8, David Von Pein wrote:
> Donald,
>
> Are you *really* contending that NOBODY was shooting a gun out of the SE
> 6th-floor TSBD window at 12:30 PM CST on 11/22/63?

Yes.

>
> Really?
>
> That's a riot.

You got 5 of 6 witnesses saying that the shooter was at a wide open
window, and you've got a homicide captain who picked up the hulls. We
know where he put them, but we can't be sure, then, where he picked them
up. Some evidence....

dcw

[David Von Pein]

Earth to Donald C. Willis.....

Luke Mooney discovered (and obviously SAW) the three spent bullet shells
lying in the Sniper's Nest below the EASTERNMOST WINDOW on the sixth floor
of the TSBD.

And Mooney made the "shells" discovery BEFORE Captain J. Will Fritz ever
stepped foot on the sixth floor.

So, I guess you must think Luke Mooney was a liar too, as were ALL OTHER
OFFICERS who said they saw the shells in the SN.

Is that right, DCW?

[Anthony Marsh]

Hard to tell what you mean when you snip out the context.
I said that Euins may have seen one of the black men looking out the
window. One was more visible than the other.

[donald willis]

On Monday, January 5, 2015 8:31:0 cut

> > > >
> > >
> > > That's funny. When did Brennan ask to correct it. You are the only one who
> > > thinks it needs corrected. Brennan sure didn't.
> >
> > Are you being willfully obtuse, bigdog? He did correct it--he testified
> > that the 6th-floor window was too "low", his word. He then corrected it
> > himself by pointing out the (higher) windows just below! Get with it,
> > man, get with it!
> >
>
> Yeah, get with it. Tell us where he changed his mind about where he
> thought the shots came from. How the hell could a shooter have been in
> that window when the photo shows the two black men in those windows.

And how did they get to be in those windows? Of course, we all assumed
that the version of the Dillard photo in the Warren Report (p67) was
simply a poor one. You can't see any black men in the 5th-floor windows
at all. Whereas, the "better" version of the same photo, in Pictures of
the Pain (p442) shows the sun faintly picking out Jarman & Williams. But
a comparison of the two versions' image of the famous 6th-floor
window-sill box--the "rifle rest"--also in the sun, shows that, in the
"worse" WR version, that image of the box is somehow *brighter*!

How can one image in a photo brighten from version to version, & another
get dimmer? Unless the *brighter* image was added to the photo after the
fact.... Five witnesses testified that the shooter was at wide open
window--three such windows had apparently been *scrubbed*, as witness the
WR version.

...
dcw

[Anthony Marsh]

The acoustical evidence proves that 3 shot were fired from that window.
Now, if I wanted to be picky I could point out that they were actually
fired at 12:31 not 12:30.
But at least you got the date right.

[JAMON F HERERRA]

Don will have to consult with Walt before he answers.

[JAMON F HERERRA]

On Tuesday, January 6, 2015 5:24:19 PM UTC-5, David Von Pein wrote:

Don thinks that Luke Mooney was a member of the Unification Church.

[donald willis]

Tom Alyea has said that Mooney did *not* find the shells, a uniformed DPD
officer did. I believe this was Officer Valentine, who went into the
depository with Insp. Sawyer & Sgt. Hill, about 12:50. Valentine was then
left to guard the evidence, on the FIFTH floor (as per his affidavit)....
Are Alyea & Valentine lying, dvp?

dcw

PS Even if Mooney shouted out the find to those below the fifth-floor
window, no photo was apparently taken of this event

[David Von Pein]

ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

Now, if I wanted to be picky I could point out that they were actually
fired at 12:31 not 12:30.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

And if you were to say that, you'd be wrong....

http://kennedy-photos.blogspot.com/2012/06/kennedy-gallery-043.html

[donald willis]

Jamon & Nostradamus make a good team

[bigdog]

Well I've never worked in a photo lab or a print shop so any answer I give
is admittedly non-expert, but since you asked I will do my best. It has to
do with contrast and resolution. Reduce either and black and white images
will tend to blur together into shades of gray. The close up of the
Dillard photo which shows the black men in the windos appears to have had
the contrast enhanced which allow one to see the two black men although
one of them almost blend into the black of the window. The uncropped photo
is lower contrast and resolution so the entire window is washed out into a
dark gray.

Now if you want a better answer, you should probably consult someone with
some expertise in the photo printing field. Or you can just do what you
have already done and assume somebody doctored the photos.

[Anthony Marsh]

It's called exposure.

> ...
> dcw
>

[Anthony Marsh]

On 1/6/2015 5:24 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
> Earth to Donald C. Willis.....
>
> Luke Mooney discovered (and obviously SAW) the three spent bullet shells
> lying in the Sniper's Nest below the EASTERNMOST WINDOW on the sixth floor
> of the TSBD.
>
> And Mooney made the "shells" discovery BEFORE Captain J. Will Fritz ever
> stepped foot on the sixth floor.
>

Not laid out in THAT pattern.

> So, I guess you must think Luke Mooney was a liar too, as were ALL OTHER
> OFFICERS who said they saw the shells in the SN.
>

Yeah, so what if he lied?
Yeah, so waht if they lied?
Doesn't prove they killed the President.

> Is that right, DCW?
>

[donald willis]

On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 8:21:28 PM UTC-8, big cut

A fine response, bigdog. But I think you're getting into the *other*
Dillard photo, too, page 66 in the WR. There were two different photos
attributed to Dillard. I'm speaking only of the wide-angle one on page
67, WR, & page 442 in Trask. My questions can still probably be explained
away, but I have not yet heard an explanation as to how the figures on the
5th floor can be seen more clearly in the Trask version, not at all in the
WR version... while the rifle-rest box is seen more clearly in the WR
version. Box and witnesses are both in the direct sun....

dcw

[donald willis]

Does not explain why parts of the page 67 Dillard become more legible in
the 442 Trask version of the same photo, & other parts get dimmer....

dcw

[Anthony Marsh]

It might help to actually read the HSCA report and look at the work they
did in enhancing the photo.

> Now if you want a better answer, you should probably consult someone with
> some expertise in the photo printing field. Or you can just do what you
> have already done and assume somebody doctored the photos.
>

Just read the damn HSCA report some day.

[bigdog]

On Thursday, January 8, 2015 at 9:32:40 PM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> >
> > Well I've never worked in a photo lab or a print shop so any answer I give
> > is admittedly non-expert, but since you asked I will do my best. It has to
> > do with contrast and resolution. Reduce either and black and white images
> > will tend to blur together into shades of gray. The close up of the
> > Dillard photo which shows the black men in the windos appears to have had
> > the contrast enhanced which allow one to see the two black men although
> > one of them almost blend into the black of the window. The uncropped photo
> > is lower contrast and resolution so the entire window is washed out into a
> > dark gray.
> >
> It might help to actually read the HSCA report and look at the work they
> did in enhancing the photo.
>

We were discussing the reasons for the differences between the close up
cropped version of the Dillard photo and the full photo printed on pages
66 and 67 of the WCR. What the HSCA did with the photo is irrelevant to
that discussion. But since you never both to get up to speed on a thread
before commenting, you didn't know that.

> > Now if you want a better answer, you should probably consult someone with
> > some expertise in the photo printing field. Or you can just do what you
> > have already done and assume somebody doctored the photos.
> >
> Just read the damn HSCA report some day.

If it ever becomes relevant to this or any other discussion, I will.

[donald willis]

On Friday, January 9, 2015 at 8:30:35 AM U cut

> > It might help to actually read the HSCA report and look at the work they
> > did in enhancing the photo.
> >
>
> We were discussing the reasons for the differences between the close up
> cropped version of the Dillard photo and the full photo printed on pages
> 66 and 67 of the WCR.

Page 66 is a different photo from page 67. These are the *two* photos
which Dillard took of the depository. We're comparing the wide-angle pic
on page 67 with a different version of it on page 442 in Trask....

dcw

[Anthony Marsh]

On 1/9/2015 11:30 AM, bigdog wrote:
> On Thursday, January 8, 2015 at 9:32:40 PM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>>>
>>> Well I've never worked in a photo lab or a print shop so any answer I give
>>> is admittedly non-expert, but since you asked I will do my best. It has to
>>> do with contrast and resolution. Reduce either and black and white images
>>> will tend to blur together into shades of gray. The close up of the
>>> Dillard photo which shows the black men in the windos appears to have had
>>> the contrast enhanced which allow one to see the two black men although
>>> one of them almost blend into the black of the window. The uncropped photo
>>> is lower contrast and resolution so the entire window is washed out into a
>>> dark gray.
>>>
>> It might help to actually read the HSCA report and look at the work they
>> did in enhancing the photo.
>>
>
> We were discussing the reasons for the differences between the close up
> cropped version of the Dillard photo and the full photo printed on pages
> 66 and 67 of the WCR. What the HSCA did with the photo is irrelevant to
> that discussion. But since you never both to get up to speed on a thread
> before commenting, you didn't know that.
>

I am not talking about that. I am talking about the way the photographic
panel discussed how photos with poor exposure settings can not show
objects which can easily be seen with a better exposure setting.

>
>>> Now if you want a better answer, you should probably consult someone with
>>> some expertise in the photo printing field. Or you can just do what you
>>> have already done and assume somebody doctored the photos.
>>>
>> Just read the damn HSCA report some day.
>
> If it ever becomes relevant to this or any other discussion, I will.
>
>

So you admit that you never have. And yet you keep babbling on.

[Anthony Marsh]

Yes, it does.
Have you ever seen the negative?

[bigdog]

Unless you can provide me with an online version of the Trask photo you
speak of, I can only commment on the two photos on pages 66 and 67 of the
WCR.

[donald willis]

Have you? I don't see you telling us what's in it, or are you jealously
guarding some great secrets?

dcw

[donald willis]

I had a FAX machine which might have been able to do that, but it broke
down. Maybe that magician Marsh could post it online! We'll have to
suspend this discussion until such time....

dcw

[Bud]

On Friday, January 9, 2015 at 7:47:07 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote:

The Powell photo shows these guys in the windows under where Oswald shot
from also.

And Brennan`s 11-22 affidavit says...

"I take this building across the street to be about 7 stories anyway in
the east endof [sic] the building and the second row of windows from the
top I saw a man in this window."

You are just engaging in a silly hobby, nothing more.

[Anthony Marsh]

Again you are being vague about which version of the report.
You mean the Barnes and Noble printing. Page 66 shows Dillard C.
Page 67 shows Dillard D.
Now explain again why you are unable to find those on Google Images?
Are you posting from Estonia?

[Anthony Marsh]

Again, read the damn HSCA report. Of course I have the negative. I can
scan it in for you, but you wouldn't be able to understand it.
The HSCA discovered the great secrets and in the process accidentally
destroyed it. What are YOU looking for?

> dcw
>

[Anthony Marsh]

So once again we find WC defenders who can't figure out how to do
Google. Why do you want an online version? Why don't you buy the
original negatives? Oh, that's right. WC defenders can't do research.
Just as John McAdams could not locate JFK last press conference without
my help.
Whatever you do, don't ever download them from MY Web sites. If you do
you're a terrorist.

http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/dillardc.jpg
http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/dillardd.jpg

[donald willis]

Please cite source! Where in the report? I looked & couldn't see
anything pertinent.

dcw

[donald willis]

As I said, until you get access to the Trask book, you can't address this
issue comprehensively.

dcw

[bigdog]

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 10:39:24 AM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> >
> > Unless you can provide me with an online version of the Trask photo you
> > speak of, I can only commment on the two photos on pages 66 and 67 of the
> > WCR.
> >
> So once again we find WC defenders who can't figure out how to do
> Google. Why do you want an online version? Why don't you buy the
> original negatives? Oh, that's right. WC defenders can't do research.
> Just as John McAdams could not locate JFK last press conference without
> my help.
> Whatever you do, don't ever download them from MY Web sites. If you do
> you're a terrorist.
>
> http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/dillardc.jpg
> http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/dillardd.jpg

That's nice, Tony, but we were discussing specifically the version of the
photo in Richard Trask's book. Got that one on your website? Can you find
that with a google search? Didn't think so?

My guess is that since Trask's book was largely pictorial, there are
probably copyright issues with posting photos directlly from his book.

Nobody would mind you jumping into these conversations with both feet if
you keep just keep from inserting them in your mouth.

[Anthony Marsh]

Close enough for the WC defenders.

> You are just engaging in a silly hobby, nothing more.
>

You are just here for the giggles.

[Anthony Marsh]

But you don't have the volumes of exhibits and can't find them online.
HSCA Vol VI:


108


IV. CONSPIRACY QUESTIONS
A. Alleged Gunmen in Dealey Plaza(**)
1. INTRODUCTION

(241) A number of commentators and critics of the Warren
Commission have asserted that photographic evidence exists which
demonstrates that more than one gunman was present in Dealey Plaza. (79)
The evidence includes an assortment of still and motion-picture
photography taken by the amateur and professional photographers present in
the Plaza that day. If these films and pictures were ideal in quality, the
questions they have raised might have been answered long ago.
Nevertheless, there are limitations inherent in any photographic image,**
and many of the issues concerning the number of gunmen in Dealey Plaza
have arisen from interpretation of details that approach these inherent
limitations. In some, the quality is too poor to allow an unambiguous
interpretation of the images, resulting in differences of opinion.
(242) Because of the advances that have been made in the
photographic sciences associated with image enhancement, (80) an effort
was made to resolve the issues raised in photographs of the assassination
by applying modern technology. It was understood, however, that because of
inherent limitations to this technology not all image enhancement attempts
would necessarily be successful and that, even when successful, the
clarification obtained might not be sufficient to answer the questions
that have been raised. (81)

2. ISSUE

(243) Is there any photographic evidence of a gunman or gunmen in
Dealey Plaza at the time of the President's assassination?

3. MATERIALS AND PROCEDURES

(244) The available photographic materials were reviewed by the
Panel and contractors. Those considered most relevant to the question of
gunmen in Dealey Plaza (e.g., materials alleged to show a gunman, weapon,
flash of light, puff of smoke) were selected for image
---------------------------------------
*This section was prepared under the direction of Bob R. Hunt,
with the assistance of Harry Andrews. Robert Chiralo, Donald Janney, and
Charles Leontis. For related public hearing testimony of Hunt, September
25, 1978. See HSCA JFK Hearings, vol. IV, pp. 387, 420.
**The limitations inherent to photography can be classified as
optical and photochemical, the former referring to the optical components
which form an image, the latter to the processes which capture and
permanently record the image. See J.C. Dainty and R. Shaw, supra note 2.

(108)

109

enhancement, provided that they were judged to have sufficient
potential for meaningful improvement.(1)
((245) Based upon this review, the following photographic
materials were selected for image enhancement.)2
(Dillard-35 millimeter black and white transparencies.
Powell-35
millimeter color transparency.)
Hughes--8 millimeter color-motion-picture film. Willis--35
millimeter color transparency. Moorman-Polaroid print.
Zapruder--8 millimeter color-motion-picture film. Nix--8
millimeter color-motion-picture film.
(246) Three different categories of image enhancement,
technology were available to the Panel: Photo-optical,/photo-chemical,
digital image processing, and autoradiography.( )The selection of a
particular technology depended upon the nature of the photograph and the
type, of clarification considered necessary.

4. CONCLUSIONS

(247) Evidence of changes in the open sixth-floor window of
the Texas School Book Depository is visible. The changes are of types:
(248) (1) There is an apparent rearranging of boxes within 2
minutes after the last shot was fired at President Kennedy;
(249) (2) There is an appearance or impression of motion in the,
open sixth-floor window a few seconds prior to the assassination. While
the pattern of motion is not necessarily inconsistent with movement human
being, it was nevertheless considered probably to be photographic
artifacts.
(250) b. There is no visible evidence of anyone at the closed
widows adjacent to the open sixth-floor window of the Texas School Book
Depository. Motion in these windows was also attributed to photographic
artifact.
(251) c. There is no definitive visible evidence of any gunmen in
the streets, sidewalks, or areas adjacent to Dealey Plaza. Nor was any
evidence discerned of a flash of light or puff of smoke.

5. ANALYSIS

(252) The following section describes the processing and analysis
of the Dealey Plaza photographic evidence undertaken by the Photographic
Evidence Panel. Each of the major subdivisions of this section contains a
synopsis of the issues in question, a summary of the relevant photographic
evidence, and a discussion of the, special processing operations used to
enhance the evidence. The evidence in question is identified by using the
photographer's name--for example, a motion picture taken by Orville Nix
will be referred to as the Nix film. In the
------------------------------------------
In general, a minimum requirement was that the material be
original and transparent film. See pars. 39-41, supra.
"A list of the most important photographic materials reviewed
by the Panel is set forth in par. 42, supra.
See pars. 938, ,supra.



110

case of multiple pictures by the same photographer, frame numbers are
also used?

(a) The Texas School Book Depository

(253) Evidence from sources other than photography led the.
Warren Commission to conclude that the shots that struck the President had
come from an open window on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book
Depository. (82) Several sources of photography exist that show the window
before and after the fatal shots. These were examined for evidence of a
gunman.
(254) The following photographs of the Texas School Book
Depository were subjected to image enhancement:
(1) The Dillard photographs (2).
(2) The Powell photograph.
(3) The Hughes motion-picture film.
(255) The Dillard and Powell photographs and Hughes film were
taken from the region of the intersection of Houston and Elm
Streets in Dealey Plaza. Dillard, a professional photographer, was riding
in
the press car in the Presidential motorcade. At the time he took
his pictures of the Depository, the car was approaching Elm and
Houston.(83) Powell was standing considerably to the right of Dillard,
near the southeast corner at Elm and Houston, and his picture therefore
shows the window from a much more oblique angle. (84) Hughes was standing
near the southwest, corner of Houston and Main Streets; (85) thus, his
motion picture film was taken from a much greater distance than the
Dillard and Powell photographs.
(256) The time at which the photographs of Dillard and Powell
were taken is only approximate. Dillard stated that his second picture was
taken a few seconds after the last shot that he heard. (86) Powell has
estimated that he took his picture about. 30 seconds after the last shot..
(87) A shadow analysis performed by the panel confirmed that, these
photographs were taken at the same approximate time, with Dillard's first,
and Powell's second. (88) The Hughes film ended 2 to 10 seconds before
any shots were fired, as indicated by the position of the Presidential
limousine in the film.**

1. DILLARD AND POWELL PHOTOGRAPHS

(257) Examination of both the Dillard and Powell photographs of
the sixth floor windows shows an open window with deep shadows in the
region behind it. The deep shadows indicate the film was underexposed in
these regions; that is, too little light reached the film or a clear
recording of any details in the room behind the window.
(258) A number of enhancement processes were applied to the
photographs in order to bring out any details obscured within the
underexposed regions. They were as follows:
-----------------------------------------
*This system has been used by others who have analyzed the
evidence, including the Warren Commission and the commentators and critics
of the Warren Commission.
**The panel did not consider it necessary to refine these
estimates of the time of the taking of the photographs because it would
not have helped to resolve the issue Of whether these photographs depicted
any gunmen.



111

(259) (1) Photographic enhancement (using photo-optical and
photochemical techniques) of the underexposed regions of the Dillard
photograph undertaken at the Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT). (89)
(260) (2) Autoradiographic enhancement of the underexposed regions of
the Dillard photograph at Stanford Research Institute, Inc. (SRI). (90)
(261) (3) Computer enhancement of the underexposed regions of the
Powell photograph at the University of Southern California and the
Aerospace Corp. (91)
(262) In addition, the Dillard photographs were scanned and digitized
for possible computer enhancement. Nevertheless, no such enhancement was
performed because the Panel decided that the autoradiographic technique
had more potential for success.
(263) The photographic and computer processes made visible details
that had been obscured in the underexposed regions of the photographs.
Both the photographic enhancement by RIT and the autoradiographic
enhancement by SRI revealed a feature in the fifth floor window
immediately beneath the sixth floor window. Figure IV-1 (JFK exhibit
F-153) shows one of the. original Dillard photographs, and figure IV-2
is an autoradiographic enhancement. The detail revealed by the
processing appears to be a circular light fixture hanging from the
ceiling of the fifth floor room, with a light bulb in the center of the
fixture.*
-------------------------------------
*The Panel observed all enhanced images under optimum viewing
conditions. Reproduction of the enhanced images for this report results
in a degradation in quality. The Panel's decisions were reached on the
basis of the image quality of the original enhanced photographs, and not
on the quality of images as reproduced in this report. See par. 28 supra.



112

IV-l.-Dillard photograph (unenhanced).



















113

FIGURE IV-2.-Autoradiographic enhancement--Dillard photograph.

(264) In the enhanced Powell photograph additional details became
visible on the boxes in the windows. (See figure IV-3, JFK exhibit
F157.) Nevertheless in neither photograph did the processing operations
reveal any sign of a human face or form in the open sixth floor or
adjoining windows.













114

FIGURE IV--3.-Powell photograph. Top: Enhanced window area.
Bottom: Unenhanced original.


















115

(265) The Panel concluded that the light fixture revealed in the fifth
window served as a "benchmark" against which the sixth floor
enhancement could be judged. Accordingly the enhancement of a
recognizable object in the fifth floor window gave the Panel confidence
in its judgment there were no recognizable human forms in the
enhancement of the sixth floor windows.
(266) Although human faces or forms were not visible in the enhanced
photographs, inspection of figures IV-2 and IV-3 reveals a difference in
the boxes visible through the sixth floor widow. in the Dillard
photograph, only two boxes are immediately visible, one each
to the left and right of the window frame. Nevertheless, the Powell
photograph shows several additional boxes. There are two possible
explanations for this difference:
The Powell photograph may reflect only an apparent change in the
boxes; the different angle from which Powell viewed the depository may
have caused a different set of boxes within the room to be framed within
the window;
(268) (2) The boxes were moved during the time that elapsed between
the Dillard and Powell photographs.
(269) Since the precise positions of Dillard and Powell at the
time of the photographs were unknown, it was not possible to calculate
precisely the region within the sixth floor room that would have been
visible to each photographer. In the Dillard photograph, the two the
left and right of the window frame appear to be in the full light of
the Sun, with no shadows cast on them by the frame of the partially
opened window. In the Powell photograph, it also appears that the boxes
are in full sunlight, with no shadow cast on them by the window frame.
(270) A simple trigonometric calculation shows that the two boxes at
the left and right lie approximately 6 inches from the plane of the
window (see appendix A). If full sunlight is falling on the additional
boxes in question in the Powell photograph, they must also lie close to
the plane of the window.* For this reason, the Panel concluded that the
additional boxes visible in the Powell photograph were moved during the
interval between the Dillard and Powell well photographs.
(271) An additional issue relating to the sixth floor windows was the
possible presence of a human face or form in the adjacent windows. None
was found by the Panel.


> dcw
>

[Bud]

How does this book impact Brennan`s affidavit?

[donald willis]

Good work, Anthony Marsh! I've skimmed this already, & will pore over the
whole thing tomorrow. Thank you! By the way, does this mean that you
have a bound copy of the HSCA exhibits? Yow!

dcw

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 9:23:26 cut f course I have the negative. I can

[donald willis]

The photo in question affects, more directly, Brennan's WC *testimony*,
where he talks about the wide-open windows, & the shooter in one of
them....

dcw

[bigdog]

The conspiracy hobbyists give us lots of those.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 1/13/2015 1:01 PM, donald willis wrote:
> Good work, Anthony Marsh! I've skimmed this already, & will pore over the
> whole thing tomorrow. Thank you! By the way, does this mean that you
> have a bound copy of the HSCA exhibits? Yow!
>

Of course. I was at the government printing office here in Boston waiting
for them. Mine are only paperback not bound and they are falling apart.

BTW, Rex would have needed to cut the binding off to feed them into the
automatic scanner.

[Bud]

His affidavit says where he saw the shooter.

[OLIVER REVILO]

They are falling apart just like your ridiculous theories.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 1/12/2015 8:42 PM, bigdog wrote:
> On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 10:39:24 AM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>>>
>>> Unless you can provide me with an online version of the Trask photo you
>>> speak of, I can only commment on the two photos on pages 66 and 67 of the
>>> WCR.
>>>
>> So once again we find WC defenders who can't figure out how to do
>> Google. Why do you want an online version? Why don't you buy the
>> original negatives? Oh, that's right. WC defenders can't do research.
>> Just as John McAdams could not locate JFK last press conference without
>> my help.
>> Whatever you do, don't ever download them from MY Web sites. If you do
>> you're a terrorist.
>>
>> http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/dillardc.jpg
>> http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/dillardd.jpg
>
> That's nice, Tony, but we were discussing specifically the version of the
> photo in Richard Trask's book. Got that one on your website? Can you find
> that with a google search? Didn't think so?

Which version? Which page? Do you have a point? Can you find any files
on my Website? I doubt it. Can you find anything on Google? I doubt it.

>
> My guess is that since Trask's book was largely pictorial, there are
> probably copyright issues with posting photos directlly from his book.
>

That's cheap slander. Based on not having actually seen his book. It is
full of research.
I have no problem posting anything from his book. A lot of the photos
he got from the National Archives just I have.
I can scan in pages from books, but others have already done that.

> Nobody would mind you jumping into these conversations with both feet if
> you keep just keep from inserting them in your mouth.
>
>

Why don't you cite copyright to scare people away from even discussing
this case? Any trick in the book.

[donald willis]

On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 4:39:38 PM UTC cut

> > > How does this book impact Brennan`s affidavit?
> >
> > The photo in question affects, more directly, Brennan's WC *testimony*,
> > where he talks about the wide-open windows, & the shooter in one of
> > them....
> >
> > dcw
>
> His affidavit says where he saw the shooter.

Yeah, but his testimony says the shooter's window was not open as *low* as
the "sniper's nest" window.

dcw

[Bud]

It really is. Hobbyists like dw and Walt have been stumped for years over this.

> > You are just engaging in a silly hobby, nothing more.
> >
>
>
> You are just here for the giggles.

Almost nothing said here can be taken seriously.

[Bud]

He indicated where the shooter was in his affidavit.

[Anthony Marsh]

How come you never actually quote anything? Do you realize that someone's
earliest statement can change by the time he testifies and has been
carefully coached by the authorities? Read Loftus.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jTmnYgFvqzM/Tvw3vTpzhsI/AAAAAAAABuI/QJ__Z34iHho/s1200-h/Howard-Brennan-Affidavit.gif


http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh11/html/WC_Vol11_0108b.htm

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh11/html/WC_Vol11_0109a.htm


The following is CE2003

SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT
COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS

Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd of November A.D.
1963, personally appeared Howard Leslie Brennan deposes and says:

I am presently employed by the Wallace and Beard Construction Company as a
steamfitter and have been so employed for about the past 7 weeks. I am
working on a pipeline in the Katy Railroad Yards at the West end of Pacific
Street near the railroad tracks. We had knocked off for lunch and I had
dinner at the cafeteria at Main and Record Street and had come back to see
the President of the United States. I was sitting on a ledge or wall near
the intersection of Houston street and Elm street near the red light pole.
I was facing in a northerly direction looking not only at Elm Street but I
could see the large red brick building across the street from where I was
sitting. I take the building across the street to be 7 stories anyway in
the east end of the building and the second row of windows from the top I
saw a man in this window. I had seen him before the President's car
arrived. He was just sitting up there looking down apparently waiting for
the same thing that I was to see the President. I did not notice anything
unusual about this man. He was a white man in his early 30's, slender,
nice looking, slender and would weigh about 165 to 175 pounds. He had on a
light colored clothing but definitely not a suit. I proceeded to watch the
President's car as it turned left at the corner where I was and about 50
yards from the intersection of Elm and Houston and to a point I would say
the President's back was in line with the last window I have previously
described I heard what I thought was backfire. It run in my mind that it
might be someone throwing firecrackers out the window of the red brick
building and I looked up at the building. I then saw this man I have
described in the window and was taking aim with a high powered rifle. I
could see all of the barrel of the gun. I do not know if it had a scope on
it or not. I was looking at this man in the window at the time of the last
explosion. Then this man let the gun down to his side and stepped down out
of sight. He did not seem to be in any hurry. I could see this man from
about his belt up. There was nothing unusual about him at all in
appearance. I believe that I could identify this man if I ever saw him
again.
signed H.L. BRENNAN

The following is CE2006

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION


DATED JANUARY 10, 1964


Mr. HOWARD LESLIE BRENNAN, 6814 Woodard, was re-interviewed at his
place of employment, Medical Arts Building Parking Lot, at which time he
furnished the following information:

Mr. BRENNAN advised that on November 22, 1963, after finishing lunch
at about 12:18 p.m., he sat on a retainer wall directly across from the
Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) building on Elm Street. While he was
sitting there, he looked up at the TSBD building and noticed that there was
a man standing in the sixth floor window; however, at this time, this man
did not have a rifle. He said he then turned around and noticed that the
man had left the window. Then he turned his head back toward the south
where the Presidential motorcade would come. Approximately ten minutes
after sitting down on this retaining wall, the Presidential motorcade
turned on to Houston Street, and he was able to see President KENNEDY and
his wife pass approximately thirty yards west on Elm from where he was
seated. The car passed out of sight and shortly thereafter he heard one
shot, which he first believed to have been a firecracker, and he
immediately looked toward the TSBD building and saw a man on the sixth
floor in the same window, in the southeast corner of the building, and he
noticed that this man took deliberate aim and shot the rifle again. When
he saw the man shoot the rifle this time, he realized it was the same man
that he had seen standing in the window a few minutes before.

After the last shot, he immediately fell off the retaining wall and
ran for an officer so he could advise the police and the Secret Service
that the man whom he had seen take the last shot was in the TSBD building.

Mr. BRENNAN estimated that it was approximately 90 yards from the
window where the shots were fired to the area where the President's car had
passed out of sight. He said that he did not see anyone else near him that
he knew; however there was a lady and a little girl approximately ten years
old who had attempted to sit on a cement column attached to the southwest
corner of the retaining wall, on Houston street, close to where he was
sitting.

He also notice a woman in her forties was taking pictures near him,
but he could not tell whether she had a movie camera, or a still camera;
although he believed the size of this camera was approximately four inches
by five inches.

Mr. BRENNAN added that after his first interview at the Sheriff's
Office, on November 22, 1963, he left and went home at about 2 p.m. While
he was at home, and before he returned to view a lineup, which included the
possible assassin of President KENNEDY, he observed LEE HARVEY OSWALD's
picture on television.

Mr. BRENNAN said that this, of course, did not help him retain the
original impression of the man in the window with the rifle; however, upon
seeing LEE HARVEY OSWALD in the police lineup, he felt that OSWALD most
resembled the man whom he had seen in the window.

ON 1/7/64 AT DALLAS, TEXAS FILE# 100-10461
BY SPECIAL AGENT WILLIAM G. BROOKHART:mja DATE DICTATED 1/9/64

The following is the complate testimony of Howard K. Brennan from
Book III of the Warren Commission Hearings, starting on page 140.

-------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS----------------------------
SECTION 3.0.0 Preliminaries
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS------------------------------

Tuesday, March 24,1964

The President's Commission met at 9 a.m. on March 24,1964 at
200 Maryland Avenue NE, Washington, D.C.
Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman;
Representative Gerald R. Ford, John J. McCloy, and Allen W. Dulles,
members.
Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; Joseph A.
Ball, assistant counsel; David W. Belin, assistant counsel; Norman
Redlich, assistant counsel; and Charles Murray, observer.

CJ. Warren: The Commission will come to order.
Mr. Brennan, in keeping with our statements, so you
will know just what the purpose of the session is,
I will read a little statement to you.
The purpose of today's hearing is to hear the
testimony of Howard Leslie Brennan, Bonnie Ray
Williams, James Jarman, Jr., Harold Norman, Roy S.
Truly.
These witnesses were all in the vicinity of the
TSBD building at the time of the assassination of
President John F. Kennedy. They will be asked to
provide the Commission with their knowledge of the
facts concerning the assassination of President
Kennedy.
Would you please rise and be sworn?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give
before this Commission will be the truth, the whole
truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?"
Mr. Brennan: I do.
CJ. Warren: You may be seated, Mr. Brennan. Mr. Belin will
conduct the interrogation.
Mr. Belin: Mr. Brennan, will you state your name for the
record, please?
Mr. Brennan: Howard Leslie Brennan.
Mr. Belin: Where do you live?
Mr. Brennan: 6814 Woodward, Dallas 27
Mr. Belin: And how old a man are you?
Mr. Brennan: 45.
Mr. Belin: Are you married?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: Family?
Mr. Brennan: two children. One grandson.
Mr. Belin: What is your occupation, Mr. Brennan?
Mr. Brennan: Steamfitter.
Mr. Belin: And for whom are you employed, or by whom are you
employed?
Mr. Brennan: Wallace and Beard.
Mr. Belin: Is that a construction company?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: And let me ask you this: How long have you been a
steamfitter?
Mr. Brennan: Since 1943, I believe.
Mr. Belin: Do you work for one employer, or do you go from job
to job?
Mr. Brennan: I go from job to job.
Mr. Belin: Is that at your direction or at the direction of
any union?
Mr. Brennan: Local 100 in Dallas.
-------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS----------------------------
Section 3.1.0 Brennan's actions prior to assassination
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: Mr Brennan, where were you on the early part of the
afternoon of November 22, 1963, say around noon or
so?
Mr. Brennan: I left a position behind the Book Store, which is a
leased part of Katy Yards, which we have
fabrication for pipe for the Republic Bank
Building. At 12 o'clock I went to the cafeteria on
the corner of Main and Record. I believe that is
it.
Mr. Belin: That would be Main and Record streets in Dallas?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: And did you have your lunch there?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: And then after lunch, where did you go?
Mr. Brennan: I finished lunch and I glanced at a clock I don't
know exactly where the clock was located-and
noticed it was 12:18. So I thought I still had a
few minutes, that I might see the parade and the
President.
Mr. Brennan: I walked to the corner of Houston and Elm.
Mr. Belin: What route did you take to get to Houston and Elm?
Mr. Brennan: I went west on Main.
Mr. Belin: You went west on Main from Record Street to ----
Mr. Brennan: Houston.
Mr. Belin: Houston.
Mr. Brennan: And on the east side of Houston, I walked to Elm.
Mr. Belin: All right.
Mr. Brennan: Crossed the street to the southwest corner of
Houston and Elm.
Mr. Belin: Do you have any estimate about how long it took you
to get there?
Mr. Brennan: A possibility I would say more or less 4 minutes.
Mr. Belin: And then what did you do when you got to the
southwest corner of Houston and Elm?
Mr. Brennan: I stayed around a couple of minutes. There was a
man having an epileptic fit, a possibility of 20
yards east --- south of this corner. And they were
being attended by some civilians and officers, and
I believe an ambulance picked him up.
Mr. Belin: All right.
Mr. Brennan: And I walked over to this retainer wall of this
little park pool and jumped up on the top ledge.
Mr. Belin: You jumped up on the retaining wall?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
-------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.2.0 Brennan's placement at the retaining wall
fixed using CE 477
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: Now, I hand you what has been marked as Exhibit
477. I ask you to state if you know what this is?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: Will you please tell the commission what this is?
Mr. Brennan: That is the Book Store at the corner of Houston and
Elm.
Mr. Belin: By the Book Store, you mean the Texas School Book
Depository building?
Mr. Brennan: Right.
Mr. Belin: Now, do you know what ----
Mr. Brennan: That is the retainer wall which I perched on.
Mr. Belin: All right. This is the retaining wall on which you
perched. I believe that this is actually you
sitting on this retaining wall in a picture that we
took in Dallas pursuant to your showing us where
you were November 22; we took that picture on this
past Friday.
Mr. Brennan: That is correct.
Mr. Belin: Which would be the 20th of March. Is that correct:
Mr. Brennan: That is correct.
-------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.3.0 Brennan's placement further fixed at retaining
wall by using CE478.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: All right. I hand you now what the reporter has
marked as CE 478. I ask you to state, if you know,
what this is.
Mr. Brennan: Yes. That is the retaining wall and myself sitting
on it at Houston and Elm.
Mr. Belin: You remember that the photographer was standing on
the front steps of the TSBD when that picture was
taken on the 20th of March?
Mr. Brennan: Yes; I do.
Mr. Belin: And the camera is pointed in what direction?
Mr. Brennan: South.
Rep. Ford: Are those the positions where you were sitting on
November 22?
Mr. Brennan: Yes, sir.
Rep. Ford: At about 12 ----
Mr. Brennan: From about 12:22 or 12:24 until the time of the
assassination.
Rep. Ford: In both pictures, that is true ----
Mr. Brennan: True location.
Rep. Ford: True location of where you were sitting November
22:
Mr. Brennan: Yes, sir.
-------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.4.0 Brennan's exact position on retaining wall
confirmed through picture frame from Zapruder
film designated as CE179.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS------------------------------
Mr. Belin: Mr. Brennan, I am going to hand you a negative,
which has been marked as CE 479. This appears to
be a negative from a moving picture film. And I
hand you a magnifying glass --- the negative has
been enlarged. This negative appears to be a
picture of the Presidential motorcade on the
afternoon of November 22. I ask you to state if
you can find yourself in the crowd in the
background in that picture.
Mr. Brennan: Yes. I am sitting at the same position as I was in
the picture taken Friday, with the exception, I
believe, my hand is resting on the wall, and Friday
my hand, I believe, was resting on my leg.
Mr. Belin: Well, your legs in this picture, Exhibit 479, I
notice, are not your legs dangling on the front
side there, is that correct?
Mr. Brennan: No.
Mr. Belin: What were you wearing on November 22? What clothes
were you wearing?
Mr. Brennan: Gray khaki work clothes, with a dark gray hard
helmet.
Mr. Belin: Your head here appears to be the highest in the
group, a little bit left of center in the upper
part of the picture, is that correct?
Mr. Brennan: Yes, sir.
Mr. Belin: Does this scene depict the scene as you recollect
it on that day, November 22?
Mr. Brennan: It does.

-------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.5.0 Using CE477, Brennan places gunman in the sixth
floor window. Note: that he says the gunman went
away from the window and came back more than once.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: Mr. Brennan, could you please tell the Commission
what happened from the time you sat on that
retaining wall, what you saw?
Mr. Brennan: Well, I was more or less observing the crowd and
the people in different building windows, including
the fire escape across from the Texas Book Store,
on the east side of the Texas Book Store, and also
the Texas Book Store Building windows. I observed
quite a few people in different windows. In
particular, I saw this one man on the sixth floor
which left the window to my knowledge a couple of
times.
Mr. Belin: All right. Now, you say the window on the sixth
Floor. What building are you referring to there?
Mr. Brennan: That is the Texas Book Store.

Mr. Belin: I am going to ask you to circle on CE 477 the
particular window that you said you saw a man leave
and come back a couple of times.
Mr. Brennan: Well, I am confused here, the way this shows. But
I believe this is the sixth floor, the way those
windows are built there right at the present. I am
confused whether this is the same window.
Mr. Belin: You mean because some windows are open below it?
Mr. Brennan: No. The way the building is built, it seems like
this is more or less a long window with a divider
in the middle.
Mr. Belin: Here is a marking pencil. Will you just mark the
window that you believe you saw the man.
All right. And do you want to put a letter "A", if
you would, by that.
All right. now you have marked on CE 477 a circle
with the letter "A" to show the window that you saw
a man in, I believe you said, at least two times
come back and forth.
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
-------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.6.0 Using CE477, Brennan places the two black co-
workers, Williams and Jarman in a fifth floor
window.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------

Mr. Belin: Did you see any other people in any other windows
that you can recollect?
Mr. Brennan: Not on that floor. There was no other person on
that floor that ever came to the window that I
noticed. There were people on the next floor down,
which is the fifth floor, colored guys. In
particular, I only remember two that I identified.
Mr. Belin: Do you want to mark the window with the circle that
you believe you saw some Negro people on the fifth
floor. could you do that with this marking pencil
on CE 477, please?
Mr. Brennan: The two that I identified, I believe, was in this
window.
Mr. Belin: You want to put a "B" on that one?
-------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.7.0 Brennan hears first shot; sounds like backfire.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Now, after you saw the man --- well, just tell what
else you saw during that afternoon.
Mr. Brennan: Well, as the parade came by, I watched it from a
distance of Elm and Main Street, as it came on to
Houston and turned the corner at Houston and Elm,
going down the incline towards the railroad
underpass. And after the President had passed my
position, I really couldn't say how many feet or
how far, a short distance I would say, I heard this
crack that I positively thought was a backfire.
Mr. Belin: You thought it was backfire?
Mr. Brennan: Of a motorcycle.
-------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.8.0 Brennan looks up and sees the shooter aiming his
last shot and takes cover behind the retaining
wall.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS------------------------------
Mr. Belin: All right. Then what did you observe, or hear?
Mr. Brennan: Well, then something, just right after this
explosion, made me think that it was a firecracker
being thrown from the Texas Book Store. And I
glanced up. And this man that I saw previous was
aiming for his last shot.
Mr. Belin: This man you saw previous? Which man are you
talking about now?
Mr. Brennan: The man in the sixth story window.
Mr. Belin: Would you describe just exactly what you saw when
you saw him last time?
Mr. Brennan: Well, as it appeared to me, he was standing up. I
find out later -- appeared to me he was standing up
and resting against the left window sill, with gun
shouldered to his right shoulder. holding the gun
with his left hand and taking positive aim and
fired his last shot. As I calculate a couple of
seconds. He drew the gun back from the window as
though he was drawing it back to his side and maybe
paused another second as though to assure hisself
that he hit his mark and then he disappeared. And,
at the same moment, I was diving off of that
firewall and to the right for bullet protection of
this stone wall that is a little higher on the
Houston side.-------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS----------------------------
Section 3.9.0 Brennan describes rifle.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS------------------------------
Mr. Belin: Well, let me ask you. What kind of a gun did you
see in that window?
Mr. Brennan: I am not an expert on guns. It was as I could
observe, some type of high powered rifle.
Mr. Belin: Could you tell whether or not it had any kind of a
scope on it?
Mr. Brennan: I did not observe a scope.
Mr. Belin: Could you tell whether or not it had one? Do you
know whether it did or not, or could you observe
that it definitely did or definitely did not, or
don't you know?
Mr. Brennan: I do not know if it had a scope or
not.-------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.10.0 Brennan's perception of how much he saw of the
shooter and the others on the fifth floor.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: I believe you said you thought the man was
standing. What do you believe was the position of
the people on the fifth floor that you
saw--standing or sitting?
Mr. Brennan: I thought they were standing with their elbows on
the window sill leaning out.
Mr. Belin: At the time you saw this man on the sixth floor,
how much of the man could you see?
Mr. Brennan: Well, I could see-at one time he came to the window
and he sat sideways on the window sill. That was
previous to President Kennedy getting there. And I
could see practically his whole body, from his hips
up. But at the time that he was firing the gun, a
possibility from his belt up.-------------SECTION
MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.11.0 Brennan's perception of how much of the rifle he
saw and how it was pointed.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Be]in: How much of the gun do you believe
that you saw?
Mr. Brennan: I calculate 70 to 85 percent of the gun.
Mr. Belin: Do you know what direction the gun was pointing?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: And what direction was the gun pointing when you
saw it?
Mr. Brennan: At somewhat 30 degrees downward and west by south.
Mr. Belin: Do you know down what street it was pointing?
Mr. Brennan: Yes. Down Elm Street toward the railroad
underpasses.
Mr. Belin: Now, up to the time of the shots, did you observe
anything else that you have not told us about here
that you can think of right now?
Mr. Brennan: Well, not of any importance. I don't remember
anything else except ------------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.12.0 Brennan's tells of hearing only two shots.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: Let me ask you this. How many shots did you hear?
Mr. Brennan: Positively two. I do not recall a second shot ----
Mr. Belin: By a second shot, you mean a middle shot between
the time you heard the first noise and the last
noise?
Mr. Brennan: Yes; that is right. I don't know what made me
think that there was firecrackers throwed out of
the Book Store unless I did hear the second shot,
because I positively thought the first shot was a
backfire, and subconsciously i must have heard a
second shot, but I do not recall it. I could not
swear to it.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.13.0 Brennan's description of the shooter and what he
was wearing.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: Could you describe the man you saw in the window on
the sixth floor.
Mr. Brennan: To my best description, a man in his early
thirties, fair complexion, slender but neat, neat
slender, possibly 5-foot 10.
Mr. Belin. About what weight?
Mr. Brennan. Oh, at--I calculated, 1 think, from 160 to 170
pounds.
Mr. Belin. A white man?
Mr. Brennan. Yes.
Mr. Belin. Do you remember what kind of clothes he was
wearing?
Mr. Brennan. Light colored clothes, more of a khaki color.
Mr. Belin. Do you remember the color of his hair?
Mr. Brennan. No.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.14.0 Brennan's explanation of why he jumped for cover.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin. Now, I believe you said that after the last shot
you jumped off this masonry structure on which you
were sitting. Why did you jump off?
Mr. Brennan. Well, it occurred to me that there might be more
than one person, that it was a plot which could
mean several people, and I knew beyond reasonable
doubt that there were going to be bullets flying
from every direction.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.15.0 Brennan's description of approaching police
officers after the shooting.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin. Then what did you do after that? Or what did you
see?
Mr. Brennan. I observed to my thinking that they were directing
their search towards the west side of the building
and down Houston Street.
Mr. Belin. When you say 'they,' who do you mean?
Mr. Brennan. Law enforcement officers.
Mr. Belin. By the west side of the building, you mean towards
the underpass or railroad tracks?
Mr. Brennan. Yes.
Mr. Belin. After you saw that, what did you do?
Mr. Brennan. I knew I had to get to someone quick to tell them
where the man was. So I ran or I walked-there is a
possibility I ran, because I have a habit of, where
something has to be done in a hurry, I run. And
there was one officer standing at the corner of the
Texas Book Store on the street. It didn't seem to
me he was going in any direction. He was standing
still.
Mr. Belin. What did you do or what did you say to him?
Mr. Brennan. I asked him to get me someone in charge, a Secret
Service man or an FBI. That it appeared to me that
they were searching in the wrong direction for the
man that did the shooting. And he was definitely in
the building on the sixth floor. I did not say on
the sixth floor. Correction there. I believe I
identified the window as one window from the top.
Mr. Belin. All right.
Mr. Brennan. Because, at that time, I did not know how many
story building it was.
Rep. Ford: But you did say to the policeman it was a window on
the second floor from the top?
Mr. Brennan: Right.
Mr. Belin: And then what happened?
Mr. Brennan: He -----
CJ. Warren: May I ask there. by the second floor from the top,
do you mean the one directly underneath the top
floor?
Mr. Brennan: Underneath the top floor, excluding the roof, yes,
sir.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.16.0 Brennan is turned over to a Secret Service agent,
Sorrels.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: And then what happened?
Mr. Brennan. He said, 'Just a minute." And he had to give some
orders or something on the east side of the
building on Houston Street. And then he had take me
to, I believe, Mr. Sorrels, an automobile sitting
in front of the Texas Book Store.
Mr. Belin. And then what happened there?
Mr. Brennan. I related my information and there was a few
minutes of discussion, and Mr. Sorrels had taken me
then across the street to the sheriff's building.
Mr. Belin. Did you describe the man that you saw in the
window?
Mr. Brennan. Yes; I believe I did.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.17.0 Brennan is taken to a lineup, later that night.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin. Mr. Brennan, later that afternoon, or the next day,
did you have occasion to go down to the Dallas
Police Station to try to identify any person?
Mr. Brennan. That evening, the Secret Service picked me up, Mr.
Patterson, I believe, at 6 o'clock, at my home, and
taken me to the Dallas Police Station.
Mr. Belin. All right. Could you tell us what happened there,
please?--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.18.0 Brennan digresses to tell about telling Sorrels
about the two black workers coming out of the TSBD.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Brennan. If I might add a part, that I left out a couple of
minutes ago ---
Mr. Belin. Go right ahead, sir.
Mr. Brennan. As Mr. Sorrels and some more men were discussing
this I mentioned these two colored boys. .
Mr. Belin. Yes.
Mr. Brennan. Came out of the book store, running down the steps.
Mr. Belin. You mean the two-
Mr. Brennan. That I had previously saw on the fifth floor.
Mr. Belin. All right.
Mr. Brennan. And I immediately identified these two boys to the
officers and Mr. Sorrels as being on the fifth
floor.
Mr. Belin. Do you have anything else you wish to add now?
Mr. Brennan. No, that concludes that.
Mr. McCloy: They were running out of the building?
Mr. Brennan: They came running down the front steps of the
building on the Elm street side.
Mr. McCloy: Did they then disappear in the crowd?
Mr. Brennan: No; I believe Mr. Sorrels or the Secret Service man
stopped them.
I am not sure, but I don't believe an officer of
the police department stopped them.
Rep. Ford: But you were standing on the steps of the TSBD
building talking to whom?
Mr. Brennan: Mr. Sorrels and another man, and I believe there
was an officer standing there, a police officer.
Rep. Ford: And these two Negroes came out of the front door?
Mr. Brennan: Yes, sir.
Rep. Ford: And you did what then?
Mr. Brennan: I ------
Rep. Ford: Spoke to Mr. Sorrels?
Mr. Brennan: Spoke to Mr. Sorrels, and told him that those were
the two colored boys that was on the fifth floor,
or on the next floor underneath the man that fired
the gun.
Rep. Ford: You positively identified them?
Mr. Brennan: I did, at the time.
Mr. Belin. Is there anything else now, up to the time you got
down to the Dallas Police Station?
Mr. Brennan. Well, nothing except that up until that time,
through my entire life I could never remember what
a colored person looked like if he got out of my
sight. And I always thought that if I had to
identify a colored person I could not. But by
coincidence that one time I did recognize those two
boys.
Rep. Ford: Did those two Negro men say in your presence that
they had been in the fifth floor window?
Mr. Brennan: I don't recall. I don't recall.

Mr. Belin: Is there anything else, sir, now up to the time you
got down to the Dallas Police Station?
Mr. Brennan: On Friday evening, you are speaking of?
Mr. Belin: Yes.
Mr. Brennan: No.
Mr. Belin: All right.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.19.0 Brennan ends the digression and continues with what
happened surrounding the line up.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
What happened when you got down to the Dallas
Police Station?
Mr. Brennan: Mr. Patterson, if I am correct in the Secret
Service that picked me up, directed me to go to the
fourth floor, a certain room on that floor.
(At this point, Mr. Warren and Rep. Ford withdrew from the hearing
room.)
Mr. Brennan: I later was introduced to several men --- Capt.
Fritz in Mr. Sorrels office, and several more men.
I do not remember their names.
Mr. Belin: All right.
Before I go any further, do you remember the name
of the officer you talked to in front of the TSBD?
Mr. Brennan: I don't believe I ever heard it. I do not remember
his name.
Mr. Belin: Are you sure of the names of the Secret Service men
you talked to? I believe you mentioned the name
Sorrels.
Mr. Brennan: I do not know the other man's name.
Mr. Belin: You believe one of them was Sorrels?
Mr. Brennan: I believe one of them was Sorrels.
Mr. Belin: I think for the record ----
Mr. Brennan: That is at the building.
Mr. Belin: Yes, sir.
I think we should offer and introduce CE 477, 478,
and 479.
Mr. Dulles: The Chief Justice has asked me to preside in his
absence this morning. They shall be
admitted.--------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.20.0 Brennan is questioned about his eyesight and he
tells us of a curious incident that damaged his
eyesight after the lineup and before his testimony.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: By the way, Mr. Brennan, I note that you have
glasses with you here today.
Were you wearing glasses at the time of the
incident that you related here?
Mr. Brennan: No. I only use glasses to see fine print and more
especially the Bible and blueprint.
Mr. Belin: And have you had your eyes checked within the past
2 or 3 years?
Mr. Brennan: These here were prescriptioned, I believe, a
possibility less than a hear before the incident.
Mr. Dulles: Does that mean you are farsighted?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
(At this point, Rep. Ford entered the hearing room.)
Mr. Belin: Has there been anything that has happened since the
time of November 22, 1963, that has changed your
eyesight in any way?
Mr. Brennan: Yes, sir.
Mr. Belin: What has happened?
Mr. Brennan: The last of January I got both eyes sandblasted.
Mr. Belin: This is January of 1964?
Mr. Brennan: Yes. And I had to be treated by a Doctor Black, I
believe, in the Medical Arts Building, through the
company. And I was completely blind for about 6
hours.
Mr. Belin: How is your eyesight today?
Mr. Brennan: He says it is not good.
Mr. Belin: But this occurred January of this year, is that
correct?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.21.0 Back to the lineup.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station,
I believe you said you talked to Captain Fritz.
And then what happened?
Mr. Brennan: Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in
Mr. Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going
to conduct a lineup and wanted me to view it, which
I did.
Mr. Belin. Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. Brennan. No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. Belin. All right. Did you see anyone in the lineup you
recognized?
Mr. Brennan. Yes.
Mr. Belin. And what did you say?
Mr. Brennan. I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time
that Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I
identified looking more like a closest resemblance
to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. Belin. Were the other people in the lineup, do you
remember --were they all white, or were there some
Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. Brennan. I do not remember.
Mr. Belin. As I understand your testimony, then, you said that
you told him that this particular person looked the
most like the man you saw on the sixth floor of the
building there.
Mr. Brennan. Yes, sir.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.22.0 Brennan tells us that he had seen a picture of LHO
on TV before the lineup.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin. In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee
Harvey Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
Mr. Brennan. Yes, on television.
Mr. Belin. About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. Brennan. I believe I reach home quarter to three or
something of that, 15 minutes either way, and I
saw his picture twice on television before I went
down to the police station for the
lineup.--------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.23.0 Brennan tells us that he could not make a positive
identification at the lineup. Belln immediately
counters this by moving quickly forward to when
Brennan recants this negative ID.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin. Now, is there anything else you told the officers
at the time of the lineup?
Mr. Brennan. Well, I told them I could not make a positive
identification.
Mr. Belin. When you told them that. did you ever later tell
any officer or investigating person anything
different?
Mr. Brennan. Yes.
Mr. Belin. When did that happen?
Mr. Brennan. I believe some days later--I don't recall
exactly--and I believe the Secret Service man
identified hisself as being Williams, I believe,
from Houston. I won't swear to that --whether his
name was Williams or not.
Mr. Belin. All right.
Mr. Brennan. And he could have been an FBI. As far as I
remember, it could have been FBI instead of Secret
Service. But I believe it was a Secret Service man
from Houston. And I-
Mr. Belin. What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. Brennan. Well, he asked me--he said, "You said you couldn't
make a positive identification." He said, "Did you
do that for security reasons personally, or
couldn't you?" And I told him I could with all
honesty, but I did it more or less for security
reasons --my family and myself.
Mr.Belin. What do you mean by security reasons for your
family and yourself?
Mr. Brennan. I believed at that time, and I still believe it was
a Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't
been more than one eyewitness, and if it got to be
a known fact that I was an eyewitness, my family or
I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. Belin. If you would not have identified that man
positively, might he not have been released by the
police?
Mr. Brennan. No. That had a great contributing factor-greater
contributing factor than my personal reasons was
that I already knew they had the man for murder,
and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. Belin. The murder of whom?
Mr. Brennan. Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. Belin. Well, what happened in between to change your mind
that you later decided to come forth and tell them
you could identify him?
Mr. Brennan. After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit
that as far pressure on myself of somebody not
wanting me to identify anybody, there was longer
that immediate danger.
Mr. Belin. What is the fact as to whether or not your having
seen Oswald on television would have affected your
identification of him one way or the other?
Mr. Brennan. That is something I do not know.
Mr. Belin. Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can
or cannot positively identify the man you saw on
the sixth floor window as the same man you saw in
the police station?
Mr. Brennan. I could at that time-I could, with all sincerity,
being the same man.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.24.0 Belin returns to the sighting at the plaza and gets
some more facts on Brennan's relationship to the
window.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin. Was the man that you saw in the window firing the
rifle the same man that you had seen earlier in the
window, you said at least a couple of times, first
stepping up and then going back?
Mr. Brennan. Yes, sir. .
Mr. Belin. About how far were you away from that window at the
time you him, Mr. Brennan?
Mr. Brennan. Well, at that time, I calculated 110 foot at an
angle. But closer surveillance I believe it will
run close to 122 to 126 feet at an angle.
Mr. Belin: I believe that on Friday we paced the distance
between the place where you were sitting and the
front door of the TSBD Building and it ran about --
--
Mr. Brennan: 93 foot.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.25.0 Ford now jumps in and requires Belin to get a more
detailed facts on what Brennan's actions were
before the shooting.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Rep. Ford: This doesn't have to be now, but I think some time
he ought to step by step on a diagram trace his
movements from the restaurant until he left the
scene of the shooting.
Mr. Belin: On that particular diagram, Congressman Ford, which
is Exhibit no. 361, the intersection of Main and
Houston, and of Record and Main is not shown. It
would be a little bit to the south.
Rep. Ford: But he might be able to show the direction from
which he came to get to the scene.
Mr. Belin: Yes; that he can do.
Rep. Ford: And then his movements from there on until he left
the area. I think it would be very helpful to tie
down the precise places he was from time to
time.--------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.26.0 Using CE361, we now look more closely at how
Brennan came to be at the retaining wall.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: I think he might do that right now.
Mr. Brennan, I place in front of you Exhibit 361,
and I call to your attention that the top appears
to be south rather than north, and the arrow north
is pointed towards the bottom. And you will notice
at the top here, running in what would be an east-
west direction, is Elm Street. And you can see
running in a north-south direction Houston Street,
with the TSBD building noted here in black.
Do you see that?
Mr. Brennan: It should be here.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.27.0 Brennan traces his steps from were he was working
to where he had lunch and then to the intersection
of Elm and Houston. "D" to "E"
We learn that Brennan witnessed the epileptic fit
at that corner.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: I will turn the map around to show you north and
south; we can keep it upside down for the moment.
This is Elm Street. To the north is Pacific. Main
would be down here off the bottom of the map. And
here is Record Street right here. And I believe
you said you were at lunch at Record and Main, and
then you walked to the south.
I wonder if you might take this pen and kind of,
off the street markings, you might start maybe down
here at the bottom as to where you had your lunch.
Mr. Brennan: This is Main here.
Mr. Belin: Main would be running there, yes.
If you would, put a "D" at that point.
Now, if you would kind of on a line trace your
course that you took that day.
All right.
Mr. Brennan: I didn't go to the corner.
Mr. Belin: You didn't go to the corner of Elm and Houston.
That would be the southeast corner?
Mr. Brennan: I noticed this man having a fit. And I came across
at this corner.
Mr. Belin: Now, would you put the letter "E" where you ended
up sitting. This is on Exhibit no. 361.
Mr. Brennan: "E"?
Mr. Belin: Yes.
Mr. Brennan: I believe that would be just about where the
retainer wall is.
Mr. Belin: All right.
So you have put on Exhibit 361 the letter "E" where
you were sitting facing the TSBD.--------------SECTION
MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.28.0 Now Ford nudges Belin to obtain from Brennan his
actions after the shooting.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Rep. Ford: I think that it might be helpful to trace it where
he went subsequent to that.
Mr. Belin: All right.
Subsequent to the time of the shooting, would you
put a line from your point at point "E" to where
you went to talk to the police officers and the
Secret Service officers?
Mr. Brennan: The retaining wall come around here and straight
across here.
Mr. Belin: Will you put an "F" where you talked to him?
Mr. Brennan: The car was sitting here. That is where I talked
to him. This is where I contacted the officer.
Mr. Belin: You contacted the officer at "F".
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: And then you went over to a car.
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: Would you put your direction to the car and put a
"G" on there?
Mr. Brennan: I walked down the street here aways with this
officer.
Mr. Belin: All right, the point from "F" where you walked down
the street that would be walking north on Houston?
Mr. Brennan: I don't know; however, we walked down this way, but
I do remember going to that direction with the
officer.
Mr. Belin: You went to the north on Houston?
Mr. Brennan: Yes. And then back to-------
Mr. Belin: Well, just put a mark in there, and cut it back, if
you could, just to show the route of you going
north.
Mr. Brennan: I don't know exactly however.
Mr. Belin: All right.
Will you put a mark to "G" at the end? And I
believe you said that the car that you talked to
the Secret Service agent in was at point "G"
approximately?
Mr. Brennan: Right.
Mr. Belin: Now, are these accurate or approximate locations,
Mr. Brennan?--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.29.0 Brennan tells us not only that the TV news coverage
had broadcasts footage of him talking to the agents
but that he had successfully requested the FBI to
have the TV station kill that footage.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Brennan: Well, don't you have photographs of me talking to
the Secret Service men right here?
Mr. Belin: I don't believe so.
Mr. Brennan: You should have. It was on television before I got
home---my wife saw it.
Mr. Belin: On television?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: At this time we do not have them.
Do you remember what station they were on
television?
Mr. Brennan: No. but they had it. And I called I believe Mr.
Lish who requested that he cut those films or get
them cut of the FBI. I believe you might know
about them. Somebody cut those films, because a
number of times later the same films were shown,
and that part was cut.
Mr. Belin: Who would Mr. Lish be with?
Mr. Brennan: The FBI.
Mr. Belin: All right.
We thank you very much for that information.
Is there anything else that you did at point "G" or
anywhere else after the time of the assassination
before you went to the Sheriff's
office?--------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.30.0 Brennan tells us of standing in front of the TSBD.
Belin asks about sighting other people while there.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Brennan: I walked up the steps and stood on the outside of
the doorway.
Mr. Belin: Of what building?
Mr. Brennan: Of the Texas Book Store, while the officers or the
men that I was with gave some more orders. And
then Mr. Sorrels takes me across to the Sheriff's
office.
Mr. Belin: You did not go inside the building?
Mr. Brennan: No; I did not.
Mr. Belin: Did you notice any people coming out of the front
stairs of the building after these two negroes came
out?
Mr. Brennan: Well, I recall people going in and out, but a
different picture I cannot remember.
Rep. Ford: Where were you standing when you identified the two
Negroes?
Mr. Brennan: On the edge of the street, outer side of the
sidewalk, when the two colored boys came out of the
building and came down the steps.
Mr. Belin: Was that at point "G"?
Mr. Brennan: Yes, sir.
Mr. Belin: All right.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.31.0 Once again, we return to Brennan's actions leading
up to him sitting on the retaining wall. Third
time.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Now, perhaps on Exhibit No. 478 you can trace your
route at least along Houston Street to the time ---
- to the place where you were sitting. You
recognize the intersection of Main and Houston
there?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: All right.
Could you start there and kind of trace --- well, I
don't know if you can see all of it.
Mr. Brennan: No.
Mr. Belin: Do the best you can, you can trace along here.
Here would be the intersection of Main and Houston.
Mr. Brennan: I came down that side. Now, this street was open
at that time.
Mr. Belin: By this street you mean Houston Street?
Mr. Brennan: Yes. I don't recall any parked cars there.
Mr. Belin: Could you make that line a little darker, sir, that
you have put on.
All right. Now, at that first point, this would
be-----
Mr. Brennan: I believe I walked a little south there, just
observing them picking the man up.
Mr. Belin: All right.
You have marked a line on Exhibit No. 478 heading a
little bit south on the west side of Houston
street, commencing at the southwest corner of the
intersection, which is where you say you walked to
watch the man with the epileptic fit, is that it?
Mr. Brennan: Well, I didn't go up --- he was almost center way
of the block here. I didn't go up that far.
Mr. Belin: All right.
And will you put the letter "H" there, if you
would?
Mr. Brennan: Where I was standing watching the man?
Mr. Belin: Where you were standing watching the man; yes.
Mr. Brennan: Right there.
Mr. Belin: And then where did you go from there?
Mr. Brennan: Right there.
Mr. Belin: All right.
Now, you have taken a line which would be running
along the south side of Elm Street there towards
the point where you are sitting, and that is in the
picture Exhibit 478. And that was the route that
you took?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: Put the letter "I", if you would, there,
please.--------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.32.0 Brennan's actions after the assassination are
traced in more detail.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Now, on Exhibit 477, I wonder if you would
perchance show us after the assassination, or the
shooting --- you said you first went over to
another side of the wall.
Would it be to the east or to the west there?
Mr. Brennan: To the east. This right here is solid concrete.
Mr. Belin: Is this where you went?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: All right.
On Exhibit 477, could you put the letter "J" where
you went right after the shooting?
All right.
Now, I believe you said you later stood up and
eventually walked across the street to get a police
officer. On Exhibit 477, could you put a letter
"K" where you believe you went to talk to this
police officer, where he was.
It looks like there is a car there now.
So you went from point "J" to point "K", and point
"K", on Exhibit 477, would correspond with "F" on
Exhibit 361, is that right?
Mr. Brennan: Right.
Mr. Belin: All right.
Now, I wonder if you could perchance show on
Exhibit 477 the point that corresponds with point
"G" on Exhibit 361, which is where you said you
went to the car.
Mr. Brennan: This car here --- letter what?
Mr. Belin: Letter "L".
Mr. Brennan: that is this car here, sitting approximately where-
----
Mr. Belin: I note that this car that you have marked the "L"
is not actually on the extreme north part of Elm,
but really appears to be on that part which is
going down to the Freeway.
Mr. Brennan: Oh, is that right?
Yes, you are correct there.
Mr. Belin: Now, is this accurate, or was it one that you saw
parked right in front of the building?
Mr. Brennan: right next to the curb in front of the building.
Mr. Belin: Would it be behind --- you might put the letter "M"
to show the car which it is behind now.
Mr. Brennan: All right.

Mr. Belin: You have put the letter "M" on Exhibit 477 to show
the car behind the one which the Secret Service car
was parked.
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: At this time I believe Exhibits 477,478 and 479
should be reoffered to show all of the markings
that the witness has made on these exhibits.
Mr. Dulles: They shall be admitted as remarked.
Mr. Belin: And also Exhibit 361 should be reoffered.
Mr. Dulles: What is 361?
Mr. Belin: It is the large chart which also has been marked
on.
Mr. Dulles: It shall be admitted again,
remarked.--------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.33.0 Brennan now returns to what he saw in the windows.
He doesn't recognize the blacks in the fifth
window. He now realizes, by seeing the Dillard
blowup, that he has previously misplaced which
window the blacks are in.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: Mr. Brennan, in this sixth floor window, where you
saw the gun fired, did you see any objects of any
kind in the window, or near the window?
Mr. Brennan: Yes. Through the window, which I referred to as
back in the book store building, I could see stacks
of boxes.
Mr. Belin: Now, I hand you what has been marked as Exhibit
480, which appears to be a picture of the TSBD
building, which was taken shortly after this time.
I believe on the fifth floor you can see on two of
the open windows there some people looking out, and
Exhibit 481 is a picture of the east windows on the
south side of the fifth and sixth floors, and
Exhibit 482 is an enlargement of 481.
First of all, on Exhibits 481 and 482, do you
recognize any of these two persons in the fifth
floor window as people you saw there?
Mr. Brennan: No; I do not recognize them.
As positive identification I cannot recognize them.
Now, I see where there is a possibility I did make
a mistake. I believe these two colored boys was in
this window, and I believe I showed on that other
exhibit that they were in this window.
Mr. Belin: All right.
I am going to hand you now ------
Mr. Brennan: The only thing I said is that they were one window
over below the man that fired the gun.
Mr. Belin: Well, I hand you CE 477, where you marked a "B" at
the point there you first said you saw the Negro
men. Is this the one you say now you might have
been mistaken?
Mr. Brennan: Yes; I believe I was mistaken. I believe the two
men that I identified was in this window.
Mr. Belin: You are pointing to the window to the east of where
you have now marked "B"?
Mr. Brennan: That I am not positive of. I just remember that
they were over one window from below him, which at
that time I might have thought this was one window
over.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.34.0 Under Belin's questions, Brennan points out that he
doesn't recognize the condition of the sixth floor
window.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: All right. Let me ask you this. On Exhibit 481,
does the condition of the opening of the windows in
the fifth floor appear to be that which you saw on
the afternoon of November 22?
Mr. Brennan: Yes. These do.
Mr. Belin: You are pointing to the fifth floor windows now?
Mr. Brennan: But I don't recall this window at the time of the
shooting being that low.
Mr. Belin: Now, by this window you are pointing to the window
on the sixth floor?
Mr. Brennan: Right.
Mr. Belin: On Exhibit 481. I wonder if you would mark that
with the letter "A" --- if you would circle that
window. And could you put an "A" on that, if you
would.
Now, window A, on Exhibit 481, when you saw it, how
high do you believe it was open?
Mr. Brennan: I believe that at the time he was firing, it was
open just like this.
Mr. Belin: Just like the windows on the fifth floor
immediately below?
Mr. Brennan: That is right.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.35.0 Under Belin's questions, Brennan points out that he
doesn't recognize the condition of the boxes in the
sixth floor window.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: I note in window "A" there appear to be some boxes
in the window. To the best of your recollection,
what is the fact as to whether or not those boxes
as shown in this exhibit appear to be similar to
the ones you saw on November 22?
Mr. Brennan: No; I could see more boxes.
Mr. Belin: In the window or behind the window?
Mr. Brennan: Behind the window.
Mr. Belin: I am talking in the window itself.
Mr. Brennan: No, no. That is ---- I don't remember a box in the
window, these boxes I remember are stacked up
behind the window, and they were zigzagged, kind of
step down, and there was a space it looked like
back of here.
Mr. Belin: Now, you are pointing to a space which would be on
the east side, is that right?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: When you say you don't remember ----
Mr. Brennan: Well, I can see those boxes there now. I don't
know whether you can see them or not. It seems
like I can see the boxes in that picture. Am I
right?
Mr. Belin: I don't know, sir. I can't see them on Exhibit 471.
That could be the dirty window here.
Mr. Brennan: Here they are here. Those boxes there.
Mr. Belin: Well, here is Exhibit 482.
First of all, I see a box on Exhibit 482, right in
the window.
Mr. Brennan: Yes; I don't recall that box.
Mr. Belin: Do you recall that it definitely was not there, or
just you don't recall whether it was or was not
there?
Mr. Brennan: I do not recall that being there. So, therefore, I
could not say it definitely wasn't there.
Mr. Belin: You cannot say whether it was or was not?
Mr. Brennan: No.
Mr. Belin: On Exhibit 482, do you want to point an arrow to
where you believe you can see boxes back there. Or
where you saw boxes.
All right.
Let the record show that Exhibit 480,481 and 482
were taken by, I believe it is, Underwood or ---
just a second. Thomas C. Dillard, Chief
Photographer of the Dallas Morning News, who was
riding in the car with Robert H. Jackson, who has
already testified before the Commission, and the
deposition of Mr. Dillard will be taken by Mr. Ball
and me in Dallas in the first part of April.
And that Exhibits 480,481 and 482 were taken
shortly after the firing of the third shot. I
think that this should appear in the record.
I think it should also appear in the record that
Exhibit 479 is one of the frames from the Abraham
Zapruder movie film.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.36.0 We now return to the assassination. Belin first
concentrates on Brennan's perception of the first
shot and what lead up to it.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Brennan, from the time you first saw the
Presidential motorcade turning north on Houston
from Main, did you observe the window from which
you say you saw the last shot fired at any time
prior to the time you saw the rifle in the window?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Belin: Well, what I am saying is this. You saw the
motorcade turn?
Mr. Brennan: No; not after I saw the motorcade, I did not
observe a man or rifle in the window.
Mr. Belin: Did you observe the window at all until after you
heard that first sound which was a backfire or
firecracker, at least you thought it was?
Mr. Brennan: No.
Mr. Belin: So you did not observe the window and would not
know whether or not there was any man in the window
during that period?
Mr. Brennan: No.
Mr. Belin: Well, let the record be clear. The first sound you
first thought was what?
Mr. Brennan: Backfire of a motorcycle.
Mr. Belin: And then you later said something about a
firecracker.
Did that have reference to the first shot, or
something in between the first and last?
Mr. Brennan: I positively thought that the first shot was a
backfire of a motorcycle. And then something made
me think that someone was throwing firecrackers
from the TSBD, and a possibility it was the second
shot. But I glanced up or looked up and I saw this
man taking aim for his last shot. The first shot
and last shot is my only positive recollection of
two shots.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.37.0 We now concentrate on the last, second shot Brennan
saw and heard. McCloy jumps in. Under his
questioning, we learn that Brennan never actually
saw the man shoot the rifle.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. McCloy: Did you see the rifle explode? Did you see the
flash of what was either the second or the third
shot?
Mr. Brennan: No.
Mr. McCloy: Could you see that he had discharged the rifle?
Mr. Brennan: No. For some reason I did not get an echo at any
time. The first shot was positive and clear and
the last shot was positive and clear, with no echo
on my part.
Mr. McCloy: Yes.
But you saw him aim?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. McCloy: Did you see the rifle discharge, did you see the
recoil or the flash?
Mr. Brennan: No.
Mr. McCloy: But you heard the last shot.
Mr. Brennan: The report; yes, sir.
Mr. Dulles: Could you see who or what he was aiming at? You
testified as to the declination of the rifle, the
angle of the rifle. But could you see what he was
firing at?
Mr. Brennan: Subconsciously I knew what he was firing at. But
immediately I looked towards where President
Kennedy's car should be, and there was something
obstructing my view. I could not see the President
or his car at that time.
And I still don't know what was obstructing my
view, because I was high enough that I should have
been able to see it. I could not see it.
--------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.38.0 The subject of how far Brennan was from the window
is explored.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin. Mr. Brennan on one of your interviews with the FBI,
they record a statement that you estimated your
distance between the point you were seated and
window from which the shots were fired as
approximately 90 yards. At that time did you make
that statement to the FBI-and this would be on 22
November-to the best of your recollection?
Mr. Brennan. There was a mistake in the FBI recording there. He
had asked the question of how far the shot was
fired from too, and also he had asked me the
question of how far I was from the shot that was
fired. I calculated the distance at the angle his
gun was resting that he must have been firing 80 to
90 yards. Now, I-
Mr. Belin. You mean 80 or 90 yards from where?
Mr. Brennan. From Kennedy's position.
Mr. Belin. But could you see Kennedy's position?
Mr. Brennan. No, I could not. But I could see before and
after.--------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.39.0 Belin returns to Brennan's identification at the
lineup. Belin goes over in detail the different
statements Brennan has made to the authorities on
this point.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin. In that same interview, you stated that you
attended a lineup at Dallas Police Department at
which you picked Lee Harvey Oswald as the person
most closely resembling the man you observed with
the rifle in the window of the Texas School Book
Depository, but you stated you could not positively
identify Oswald as the person you saw fire the
rifle. Now, is this an accurate recording of the
statement you made to the FBI on or about Nov. 22?
Mr. Brennan. Yes; I believe-
Mr. Belin. In other words, that part of the FBI statement is
correct, as to what you told them?
Mr. Brennan. Yes.
Mr. Belin: What was the fact as to whether you could or could
not identify the person, apart from what you told
them?
Mr. Brennan: Why did I -----
Mr. Belin: No.
Mr. Brennan. I believed I could with all fairness and sincerity.
As you asked me the question before, had I saw
those pictures of Oswald prior,which naturally I
don't know whether it confused me or made me feel
as though I was taking unfair advantage or what.
But with all fairness, I could have positively
identified the man.
Mr. Belin. Now, on Dec. 17 there appears to be another
interview that you had with an agent of the FBI in
which you at that time, according to this report,
stated that you could now say that you were sure
that Lee Harvey Oswald was the person you saw in
the window at the time of the assassination. but
that when you first saw him in a lineup you felt
positive identification was not necessary, because
it was your understanding that Oswald had already
been charged with the slaying of Officer Tippit,
and you also said that another factor was that you
had observed his picture on television prior to the
time of identification, and that tended to cloud
any identification you made of Oswald at the police
department. Now, does this Dec. 17 interview
accurately record what you told the FBI with regard
to that matter of identification?
Mr. Brennan. I believe it does.
Mr. Belin. Now, later we have an interview on Jan. 7 with the
FBI in which at that time the interview records
that while you were at home and before you returned
to view the lineup, which included the possible
assassin of President Kennedy, you observed Lee
Harvey Oswald's picture on television, and that you
said that this, of course, did not help you retain
the original impression of the man in the window
with the rifle, but that upon seeing Lee Harvey
Oswald in the police I lineup, you felt that Oswald
most resembled the man whom you had seen in the
window. Now, is that what you told the man on Jan.
7-that Oswald most resembled the man that you had
seen in the window?
Mr. Brennan. Yes.
Mr. Belin. Does that mean you could not give him a positive
identification at that time, but could merely say
he most resembled the man in the window?
Mr. Brennan. Well. I felt that I could. But for personal reasons
I didn't feel like that at that moment it was
compulsory and I did not want to give a positive
identification at that time.--------------SECTION
MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.40.0 Brennan repudiates his last FBI statement, saying
that it was a mistake on the FBI's part.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin. Now, this last interview was on Jan. 7. You still
felt these personal reasons as recently as Jan. 7,
then?
Mr. Brennan. No. I felt better about it. This is the first guy
that-
Mr. Belin. No. I am referring now to the last interview you
had on Jan. 7, in which it says that you felt that
Oswald most resembled the man you had seen in the
window. Is that what you told them?
Mr. Brennan. Yes. You mean told this man?
Mr. Belin. On Jan. 7; yes, sir.
Mr. Brennan. No ; I don't believe I told this man in those
words. I told him what I had said at the lineup.
But he might have misinterpreted that I was saying
that again.
Mr. Belin. In other words-well, I don't want to say in other
words. When you said on Jan. 7 that upon seeing Lee
Harvey Oswald in the lineup you felt that Oswald
most resembled the man whom you had seen in the
window?
Mr. Brennan. Yes.
Mr. Belin. Now, I am referring to a statement
to the FBI on Jan. 7 of this year,
Mr. Brennan. All right.
Mr. Belin. By that, did you have reference to your own
personal recollection, or what you said at the time
of the Dallas Police Department lineup?
Mr. Brennan. I believe I was referring to what I said at the
Dallas Police Department.
Mr. Belin. On Jan. 7 of this year, what is the fact as to
whether or not you could give --- whether or not
you felt on Nov. 22 that the man you saw in the
window was man you saw in the police lineup-not
what you told him, but what was the fact?
Mr. Brennan. On Jan. 7, at that time I did believe that I could
give positive identification as well as I did
later.
Mr. Belin. You mean in the December interview?
Mr. Brennan. Yes.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.41.0 Belin goes into Brennan's problems with recognizing
the black co-workers.
-------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin. Did you feel that your recollection of the Negroes
at that time was as good as the one with the man
with the rifle?
Mr. Brennan. Yes --- at that time, it was. Now --- the boys rode
up with me on the plane --- of course I recognize
them now. But as far as a few days later, I
wouldn't positively say that I could identify them.
I did identify them that day.
Mr. Belin: Well, for instance, when I showed you Exhibit 482,
you said that you could not identify -----
Mr. Brennan: Well, the picture is not clear enough, as far as
distinct profiles.
Mr. Dulles: Mr. Belin, I don't think you have asked they be
admitted as yet.
Mr. Belin: No, sir. I have one more mark to make on them,
sir.
Mr. Brennan: The pictures there are not clear enough, the
profile is not distinct enough.
Mr. Belin: All right.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.42.0 Belin gets Brennan to mark the angle of the rifle
he saw in the window. CE482
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Now, I wonder if you would take on Exhibit 482, if
you can kind of mark the way the rifle was at the
time you saw it.
Here is a red pencil. If you could put on Exhibit
482 the direction that you saw the rifle pointing,
sir.
Mr. Brennan: I would say more at this angle. Maybe not as far
out as this.
Mr. Belin: You have put a line, and I have tried to make a
little bit darker line.
Mr. Brennan: That is as close as I can get it.
Mr. Belin: This is on Exhibit 482 --- as to the angle at which
you saw the rifle. And you say perhaps it wasn't
out of the window as far as this line goes on
Exhibit 482, is that correct?
Mr. Brennan: Right.
Rep. Ford: that is the angle that you believe the rifle was
pointed?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Dulles: And that is from the area in the window from which
the rifle was pointing?
Mr. Brennan: Right.
Mr. Belin: Could you tell whether or not any part of the rifle
was protruding out of the window?
Mr. Brennan: On a straight view like that it looked like it was.
But as I have told investigating officers prior, a
person would have to be at an angle to tell how
much was protruding out of the window. It did look
at that time that as much was protruding out of the
window as there was to the window.
Mr. Belin: At this time, we offer and introduce into evidence
Exhibit 480, 481 and 482.
Mr. Dulles: They will be accepted.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.43.0 Belin returns to how far Brennan claimed he was
from the window. Mentions Friday walkthru.
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr.McCloy: I have one or two questions, if you are finished, Mr.
Belin.
Mr. Belin: One more question, sir.
Did you ever tell anyone that you were 90 yards
away from that window where you saw the gun?
Mr. Brennan: No. It was an misunderstanding. My first
calculation was that I was about 75 foot out from
the window, and the calculation of the window 75
foot up. So the hypotenuse there would be
approximately 110 foot. That was my first
calculation.
But since we made a step of the grounds Friday, I
was farther out than 75 feet. Approximately 93
feet is what we calculated Friday.--------------SECTION
MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.44.0 Belin, in an obvious CYA, gets Brennan to confirm
that there was no prior contact before the Belin
walkthru on Friday.
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr.Belin: One additional question, sir.
When did you first see Exhibit 479?
Mr. Brennan: This morning.
Mr. Belin: This morning, here.
And on Exhibit 479, who picked the person out as
being you in that picture? Was it you or was it I?
Mr. Brennan: I did.
I might add that prior to Friday, no one had ever
gave me any information on your evidence
whatsoever.
Mr. Belin. Well, on Friday you and I met for the first time in
Dallas -that would be-on Mar. 20th.
Mr. Brennan. Right.
Mr. Belin. And we sat down and I asked you just to tell me
what happened, is that correct?
Mr. Brennan. That is right.
Mr. Belin. Did I ask you a general question and say, "What
happened?" Or did I just ask you repeated
questions?
Mr. Brennan. No. Well, you more or less told me to tell it in my
own way exactly what happened.
Mr. Belin. And you just started to tell it, is that correct?
Mr. Brennan. Yes. I believe that sums it up.
Mr. Belin: And then we then went outside where you pointed out
the place where you were sitting?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.45.0 Belin brings up Brennan's eyesight again. Eye
doctors are mentioned.
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: Do you remember the doctor that examined your eyes
when you had them examined?
Mr. Brennan: He is in Port Lavaca. He is the only leading
optometrist there.
Mr. Belin: Would it be Dr. Howard R. Bonar?
Mr. Brennan: That is right.
How did you find that out?
Mr. Belin: Well, sir, it is on one of your interviews here.
Mr. Brennan: Had that question been asked me before?
Mr. Belin: Yes, it had. On November 22, when you advised that
you wore glasses for reading purposes only.
Mr. Brennan: That is right, the FBI, Mr. Lish, right?
Mr. Belin: Yes, sir.
Mr. McCloy: That examination was before the sand blasting, of
course.
Mr. Brennan: Oh, yes, sir. The sandblasting wasn't until
January or early February of this year.
Rep. Ford: Did you have your glasses on at the time of the
assassination?
Mr. Brennan: No.
Mr. McCloy: You can see better at that distance without your
glasses than with them?
Mr. Brennan: Oh, yes, much better. Oh, I could put these
glasses on and it is just like looking through a
window pane. The upper part is just regular
clear.--------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.46.0 McCloy and Dulles both interrogate Brennan on the
timing of his immediate actions after the shooting
and we finally learn that they are wondering why
the sharp eyed Brennan, witness of the Century,
missed seeing LHO come out of the front door of the
TSBD, apparently right under his very nose.
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Dulles: Do you have some questions, Mr. McCloy?
Mr. McCloy: Yes; I have some questions.
You said you went across the street after having
sort of jumped off this retaining wall in order to
protect yourself against the possible fusillade of
shots.
Mr. Brennan: Right.
Mr. McCloy: Then you went across and picked up a police
officer, is that right?
Mr. Brennan: Right, sir.
Mr. McCloy: And then you went with him to the steps of the
TSBD?
Mr. Brennan: Eventually, yes.
Mr. McCloy: How long did it take you, do you think, from the
time of the --- when you first got up --- from the
time of the last shot, how long would you estimate
it would be before you got to the steps of the
TSBD?
Mr. Brennan: I could not calculate that, because before I got to
the steps of the TSBD, I had already talked to this
officer, and he had taken me to the Secret Service
men. I had talked to them.
Mr. McCloy: And you stayed behind the retaining wall for a
little while until you saw the coast was clear?
Mr. Brennan: Just seconds. I would say from the time the last
shot was fired, and me diving off the wall there,
and getting around on the solid side, and then
running across to the officer, the time element is
hard to figure, but it would still be in seconds.
Mr. McCloy: Then when you got to the officer he took you to a
Secret Service man, and then the Secret Service man
and you were on the steps of the depository?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Well, we talked at the car, and then when these two
colored guys came down the stairway onto the
street, I pointed to them, and identified them as
being the two that was in the floor below that
floor. And then Mr. Sorrels, I think, had to give
some orders to someone in the book store. He
walked me up the steps and I stood on the top
landing.
Mr. McCloy: When you were standing on those steps, did you see
anyone pass you, or anyone that you could recognize
as being --- as looking somewhat like the man that
you had seen in the window with the rifle?
Mr. Brennan: No, I did not.
Mr. Dulles: Did you give any estimate ---- was it a matter of 5
minutes, 6 minutes, 7 minutes? In general, how long
did it take you from the time that you left where
you were protecting yourself to the time you were
on the front steps? What order of magnitude? 10
minutes?
Mr. Brennan: No; it was a shorter time than that.
I talked to Mr. Sorrels --- I believe it was Mr.
Sorrels---and the Secret Service men there --- I
don't believe I talked to them more than 3 to 5
minutes.
Mr. McCloy: But you had prior to that time talked to the police
officer?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. McCloy: You said the police officer said, "Wait a minute."
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. McCloy: How long was that?
Mr. Brennan: That was quick, too. He gave his orders to some
one on that side of the building, and then he had
taken me to the Secret Service man.
Mr. McCloy: Did you have the feeling that the police had put a
cordon around the building, and were they keeping
people in, or were people coming in and out while
you were there?
Mr. Brennan: Well, I did, by the time I got on the steps of the
TSBD --- I felt like that the place was completely
surrounded and blocked by then. But at the time I
ran across to this officer, I may have been
completely wrong, they may have ---- the Secret
Service men and police department, too, may have
been directing their search to the building, but I
felt as though they were directing their search to
the west side of the building.
Mr. McCloy: You testified, I believe, that you saw them
directing their search towards the wrong side of
the building, so to speak?
Mr. Brennan: Yes. That was my thoughts.
Mr. McCloy: And so that would indicate that at that time they
were not blocking that particular entrance at the
east side of the building, below the window that
you saw the shot fired from?
Mr. Brennan: Not according to my calculations.--------------SECTION
MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.47.0 Ford calls for a more thorough biography of Brennan
and other witnesses. Brennan goes into his complex
job history.
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Dulles: Any other questions?
Rep. Ford: Mr. Chairman, I would suggest that perhaps in the
case of Mr. Brennan and other witnesses, if a
biography prepared by the individual, looked over
by the staff, would not be helpful to include in
the record --- I don't mean a biography in great
depth, but at least an outline of the individual's
background --- I think it would be helpful for the
record.
Mr. Dulles: We have certain information.
Mr. Belin: We have certain information in the record right now
which we took at the very beginning of the session
here this morning.
Rep. Ford: Yes, I was present. But I think it is important to
have more of a background of his education,
experience, and I think it is wise to have it for
all of the witnesses --- not in great depth, but at
least a background to show some biographical
information.
Mr. Belin: Would you care to have that prepared by the witness
himself, or here in the record?
Rep. Ford: I would suggest that it be prepared initially by
the witness, checked over by the staff, and then
mutually agreed as acceptable through the witness,
and then insert it in the record.
Mr. Dulles: Prior to his testimony?
Rep. Ford: Yes.
Mr. Belin: Would you be willing to furnish us with some kind
of an autobiographical sketch of yourself --- your
date and place of birth, where you went to school,
your education, your jobs that you have had, and
perhaps it also should include some kind of a
physical description as to your approximate height
and weight and what-have-you?
Mr. Brennan: Not at all. But you sure going to be confused on
my jobs, sir.
Mr. Belin: Because you have gone from one job to another?
Mr. Brennan: Well, I worked under the union constitution for the
last 20 years, and I have worked for many a
contractor.
Mr. Belin: You mean you just work on contract, and when you
are through with that particular construction job,
the union would send you to another construction
job?
Mr. Brennan: Yes. Usually a contractor wants me to go to the
State of Washington, like I did in California, or
he wants me to go to Utah or somewhere like that.
Mr. Dulles: I don't think we need all that detail.
Mr. Belin: In other words, you have been a steamfitter.
Mr. Brennan: Yes, sir.
With the exception of the possibility of 2 years I
was in business in California, private business.
Mr. McCloy: Are you a member of a church?
Mr. Brennan: Yes, sir.
Mr. McCloy: What church are you a member of?
Mr. Brennan: Baptist.
Mr. McCloy: You testified you were a Bible reader.
Mr. Brennan: Well, I don't read it as much as I should.
Mr. McCloy: When you do, you have to wear glasses?
Mr. Brennan: Yes, sir.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.48.0 CYA time again for Belin. 2nd time he extracts
Brennan's statement that Belin did not instruct him
as to what to say here today.
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Dulles: Any other questions?
Mr. Belin: There have been two or three other questions that
have come up here, sir.
One question --- when we visited on Friday in
Dallas, what is the fact as to whether or not I
told you what to say or you yourself just told me
what you wanted to tell me?
Mr. Brennan. I told you --- you did not instruct me what to say
at all. I told you in the best words I could to
explain exactly my movements and what happened.
Rep. Ford. And here today you have testified freely on your
own?
Mr. Brennan. Right, I have.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.49.0 Once again, Belin makes Brennan go into his reasons
for not giving a positive ID on Nov. 22.
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Dulles: Anything you would like to add?
Mr. Belin: One other questions, sir.
For the record, would you repeat what I would say
would be a full statement of the reasons which
caused you to state in your December interview to
the FBI that you had always been convinced that the
man you saw in the lineup was the man you saw
firing the rifle, whereas on Nov. 22 you declined
to give positive identification. Could you give all
of the reasons, please?
Mr. Brennan. Well, as I previously have said, I had saw the man
in the window and I had saw him on television. He
looked much younger on television than he did from
my picture of him in the window --- not much
younger, but a few years younger --- say five years
younger. And then I felt that my family could be in
danger, and I, myself, might be in danger. And
since they already had the man for murder, that he
wasn't going to be set free to escape and get out
of the country immediately, and I could very easily
sooner than the FBI or the Secret Service wanted
me, my testimony in, I could very easily get in
touch with them, if they didn't get in touch with
me, and to see that the man didn't get
loose.--------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.50.0 Ford asks for more details of what Brennan's
conversation with his wife was.
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Rep. Ford: When you got home, about 3 o'clock, on November 22,
that is when you did get home -----
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Rep. Ford: Was your wife there?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Rep. Ford: Did you and your wife discuss any aspects of the
assassination and your being present, more or less,
at the scene of the assassination?
Mr. Brennan: Yes; we discussed it. We talked --- I talked of
moving her and my grandson, which was living with
us at that time and my daughter --- moving them out
of town somewhere in secrecy.
Rep. Ford: Why did you talk about moving your wife and your
grandson out of town on this afternoon on November
22?
Mr. Brennan: Because I had already more or less given a detailed
description of the man, and I talked to the Secret
Service and gave them my statement, and they had
convinced me that it would be strictly confidential
and all that. But still I felt like if I was the
only eyewitness, that anything could happen to me
or my family.
So that was just about the length of our discussion
of it.
She seemed to think that a person can't get away
--- wherever they go.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.51.0 Ford wonders if Brennan talked to anyone else,
before the lineup. Brennan goes into more detail
about his actions leading up to the lineup.
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Rep. Ford: Did you talk to anybody else between 3 p.m.,
November 22 and the time when one of the law
enforcement agents came out and picked you up that
day?
Mr. Brennan: Not to tell --- not to give any information out.
My wife and I went to the bank in Mesquite that
evening, and my daughter was at home. And I told
herr if anyone called to first have them identify
themselves, and find out the nature of their
business that they wanted me for, and if it was
the FBI or the Secret Service, to tell them where
they could contact me.
And so we were in the bank, I believe, talking to
the vice president that evening. My daughter
called and said Mr. Sorrels had called, and that he
had requested her to get the word to me to call
him. And she called me at the bank, and then I
called Mr. Sorrels, and Mr. Sorrels told me there
would be a man to pick me up at 6 o'clock promptly.
Rep. Ford: 6 p.m., November 22nd.
Mr. Brennan: Yes; that is right.
Rep. Ford: And he did pick you up, and you did go down to the
police station?
Mr. Brennan: Yes, sir.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.52.0 Belin wonders what was said between Brennan and his
wife after the lineup.
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: When you got back from the police station, did you
have any further conversation with your wife about
what you saw in the police station?
Mr. Brennan: Yes. but I don't believe I explained to her full
details. She probably remembers whether I did or
not, but I don't. I believe I just told her that I
would not identify, make positive identification.
I believe that is all I told her.
Mr. Belin: That you would not, or that you could not?
Mr. Brennan: I believe I told her I would not.--------------SECTION
MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.53.0 In what could be construed as an after thought,
Belin asks Brennan for more details of the shooter
in the window. Trivial questions such as what he
was wearing. Brennan lays the bombshell that LHO
was not wearing the same clothes at the lineup that
he saw the shooter in the window wear.
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: Do you remember the specific color of any shirt
that the man with the rifle was wearing?
Mr. Brennan: No, other than light, and a khaki color --- maybe
in khaki. I mean other than light color --- not a
real white shirt, in other words. If it was a
white shirt, it was on the dingy side.
Mr. Belin: I am handing what the court reporter has marked as
CE 150.
Does this look like it might or might not be the
shirt, or can you make at this time any positive
identification of any kind?
Mr. Brennan: I would have expected it to be a little lighter ---
a shade or so lighter.
Mr. Belin: Than Exhibit 150?
Mr. Brennan: That is the best of my recollection.
Mr. Belin: All right.
Could you see the man's trousers at all?
Do you remember any color?
Mr. Brennan: I remembered them at that time as being similar to
the same color of the shirt or a little lighter.
And that was another thing that I called their
attention to at the lineup.
Mr. Belin: What do you mean by that?
Mr. Brennan: That he was not dressed in the same clothes that I
saw the man in the window.
Mr. Belin: You mean with reference to the trousers or the
shirt?
Mr. Brennan: Well, not particularly either. In other words, he
just didn't have the same clothes on.
Mr. Belin: All right.
Mr. Brennan: I don't know whether you have that in the record or
not. I am sure you do.--------------SECTION MARKER
BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.54.0 And with that ending statement, the WC show that it
is not interested in statements that are going to
cause any further complications and they give
Brennan the bums rush out the door.
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Dulles: Any further questions?
I guess there are no more questions, Mr. Belin.
Mr. Belin: Well, sir, we want to thank you for your
cooperation with the Commission.
Mr. Dulles: Thank you very much for coming here.

****************************************************************
** Afternoon session; Brennan testimony resumed at 2:05 p.m. **
****************************************************************

--------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.55.0 BELIN'S GAMBIT. Most people reading this narrative
will, at this point, recognize that Brennan's
testimony was seen as more of a detriment than an
asset to the WC's official story. Belin now tries
to repair that problem by getting Brennan to
confirm his identification of the black coworkers,
bolstering his weak identification of the window
shooter. It should be noted that Brennan has
traveled to Washington on a plane with Norman and
Jarman. Belin never asks him whether he talked to
them on the plane. Belin never asks if seeing them
on the plane has influenced this testimony. In
spite of this great effort to get a more positive
statement, Brennan again fails to correctly ID the
black co-workers.
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. McCloy: The purpose of today's hearing is to have the
testimony of Mr. Brennan here and you gentlemen.
Mr. Williams has already appeared before us, and
Mr. Norman and Mr. Jarman and also Mr. Truly who
will be on the stand later.
You were all witnesses, you were all in the
vicinity of the TSBD building at the time of the
assassination of President Kennedy, and we are
going to ask you to give us your knowledge of the
facts such as they come within your knowledge of
that event and we will have some questions that we
will wish to ask you.
Mr. Ball: The record will show that Harold Norman, whose
nickname is Hank, is present and Bonnie Ray
Williams and James Jarman, whose nickname is
Junior. Mr. Brennan is also.
Mr. Belin: Mr. Brennan, you testified here this morning, is
that correct?
Mr. Brennan: Right.
Mr. McCloy: You are still under oath, Mr. Brennan.
Mr. Belin. I believe that you testified that you thought you
recognized two of the people that you saw looking
out of the fifth floor of the School Book
Depository Building . . . outside of the building
sometime after the assassination, is that correct?
The two people that you saw, are they any of these
people here?
Mr. Brennan. Yes. I believe it is the one on the end and this
one here, I am not sure.
Mr. Belin: By that you would mean ----
Mr. Brennan: I don't know which of those two.
Mr. Ball: Let's identify.
Mr. Belin: Which person do you mean, you mean Mr. Norman
sitting opposite?
Mr. Brennan: Yes; I believe he was one of them.
Mr. Belin: And you believe it was Mr. Jarman together?
Mr. Brennan: Jarman.
Mr. Belin: Were they with some policeman as they came out of
the building or in custody of some plainclothesman?
Mr. Brennan: I don't believe they were.
Mr. Belin: You saw them together come out of the building?
Mr. Brennan: I don't believe they were. I don't recall seeing
any officer bring them out or with them.
Mr. Belin: Now you do not believe then that it was Mr.
Williams?
Mr. Brennan: No; I won't say for sure. I can't tell which of
those two it was.
Mr. Belin: In other words, you say that you can't, when you
say you can't tell whether it was Mr. Williams or
Mr. Norman, did you just see one person or two?
Mr. Brennan: I saw two but I can't identify which one it was.
Mr. Belin. Could it have been neither one of these persons
that you saw?
Mr. Brennan. I think it was one of them. I think it was this boy
on the end.
Mr. Belin. You thought it was Mr. Norman. And what about Mr.
Jarman?
Mr. Brennan. I believe it was him too. Am I right or wrong?
Mr. Ball. I don't know.
Mr. Belin: I explained that to you this morning.
Mr. Ball: I understand.
Any questions?
--------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.56.0 McCloy is not
satisfied to let it die. Of course, Williams was
on the fifth floor in a window but not any window
that Brennan has marked. Williams was two windows
to the west of the window that Jarman and Norman
were in. McCloy and Belin will try to see if they
can straighten out this testimony by forcing
Brennan to recollect Williams placement.
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. McCloy: Did you recognize anyone in this room that you saw
in the fifth floor window while you were sitting on
the masonry opposite the school book depository?
Mr. Brennan: That is the two boys that I am speaking of now.
Mr. McCloy: That you are speaking of now?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. McCloy: You saw these two men in the fifth floor window and
you saw them again on the first floor?
Mr. Brennan: Coming out of the building down the stairway,
coming out on the street, those were the only two
people I could identify.
Mr. Belin: I hand you -----
Mr. Brennan: I recall seeing three people with you I ----
Mr. Belin: I hand you Exhibit 477 which you testified to this
morning was a recent picture taken of the TSBD
building on March 20. This is you sitting on that
concrete wall?
Mr. Brennan: Right.
Mr. Belin: At first I believe this morning you thought that
you saw one person or two people at the point
marked "B", and then you later said it was to the
window which would be to the ----
Mr. Brennan: Left.
Mr. Belin: Well, let's talk about directions. This direction
here would be to the east and this direction here
would be to the west?
Mr. Brennan: Right.
Mr. Belin: Would it be a window to the east or west?
Mr. Brennan: I believe it was a window to the east.
Mr. Belin: So you saw, you believe you saw two people in this
window here to the east of the window that you
first marked "B"?
Mr. Brennan: Yes. I am not positive.
Mr. Belin: You are not positive?
Mr. Brennan: No.
Mr. Redlich: Mr. McCloy, may I have permission to ask the
question of this witness?
Mr. McCloy: Very well.
Mr. Redlich: You stated that you saw two employees walking down
the steps of the building?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Redlich: Do you recall whether the two employees that you
saw walking down the steps of the building were the
same two employees that you saw on the window, in
the window on the fifth floor at the easterly most
end of the building?
Mr. Brennan: Yes; as far as on the fifth floor and at one of
these two windows. The one I circled or this
window here.
Mr. Redlich: You mean two of the people that you ----
Mr. Brennan: At one of the windows I saw two, two of those
people, employees that came down.
Mr. Redlich: But you are not prepared to state which of these
three possible windows?
Mr. Brennan: That is right.
Mr. Redlich: By three, I mean the two windows to the east, plus
the one window which is circled and marked with a
"B".
Mr. Brennan: Nothing makes me think that they were in this
window but I am in question whether it was this
window or this window.
Mr. Redlich: And of the two people that you saw, it is possible
you are saying that one might have been in the
window marked "B" and another might have been in a
window to the east?
Mr. Brennan: Yes.
Mr. Redlich: Thank you.
Mr. Belin: Mr. Brennan, are you basing your recollection on
what you saw during the moments that the shots were
fired or on what you saw when you observed these
windows prior to the time the motorcade arrived?
Mr. Brennan: What I saw prior. There was no significance to the
fact at all. In other words, there is a little
difference in your memory there on this.
-------------COMMENTARY BEGINS--------------------------------
This last sentence would make more sense if it was uttered by
either Ball or Belin. And Brennan has responded with a nod of
assent. I think the transcriber has messed up.
-------------COMMENTARY ENDS----------------------------------
Mr. Ball: No questions.
You may be excused, Mr. Brennan.
You two men can also be excused and we will call
you in a few moments, Mr. Jarman.
Mr. Redlich: We don't need Mr. Williams at all.
Mr. Ball: We don't need you at all.
Mr. Redlich: We may want him back.
Mr. Belin: Don't get too far away.

[Brennan's testimony resumed again]

--------------SECTION MARKER BEGINS-----------------------------
Section 3.57.0 More mysteries? Who is Murray and
what did he relate that Brennan said? If it was
not Brennan, could it have been one of the other
hardhatted workers in Dealey Plaza that day? And
if so, what was said?
--------------SECTION MARKER ENDS-------------------------------
Mr. Belin: Mr. Brennan, you are the same Howard Leslie Brennan
who testified this morning here?
Mr. Brennan: Yes, sir.
Mr. Belin: Do you know a George Murray, of the National
Broadcasting Co.?
Mr. Brennan: I do not.
Mr. Belin: Have you ever worked for the Union Terminal Co. ---
-
Mr. McCloy: You are still under oath, you realize.
Mr. Brennan: Yes, sir.
Mr. Belin: Have you ever worked for the Union Terminal Co. in
Dallas?
Mr. Brennan: I have not.
Mr. Belin: Did you ever state to anyone that you heard shots
from opposite the TSBD and saw smoke and paper
wadding come out of boxes on a lope below the
railroad trestle at the time of the assassination?
Did you ever say that or that, in substance, to
anyone?
Mr. Brennan: I did not.
Mr. Belin: That is all.
Mr. Brennan: Is there another Howard Brennan?
Mr. Belin: Well, sir; we don't know. We wanted to know
whether or not you ever made this statement to
anyone.
Mr. Brennan: No, sir.
CJ. Warren: Thank you very much, Mr. Brennan.
Mr. Brennan: I would like to ask a question off the record.
CJ. Warren: Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)


Wouldn't we like to know what all the discussions off the record were?
Maybe they were secretly recorded and the government is still
withholding those records.

Q. Can I be prosecuted for perjury because I lied to protect my family?
A. No. This is not a criminal proceeding.

[donald willis]

Then, in his testimony, he rejected the 6th-floor window!
dcw

[donald willis]

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 4:54:14 PM UTC-8, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 1/14/2015 12:25 PM, donald willis wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 4:39:38 PM UTC cut
> >>>> How does this book impact Brennan`s affidavit?
> >>>
> >>> The photo in question affects, more directly, Brennan's WC *testimony*,
> >>> where he talks about the wide-open windows, & the shooter in one of
> >>> them....
> >>>
> >>> dcw
> >>
> >> His affidavit says where he saw the shooter.
> >
> > Yeah, but his testimony says the shooter's window was not open as *low* as
> > the "sniper's nest" window.
> >
> > dcw
> >
>
>
> How come you never actually quote anything? Do you realize that someone's
> earliest statement can change by the time he testifies and has been
> carefully coached by the authorities? Read Loftus.
>

I've quoted everything I say--in earlier posts. I'm not going back to the
well each time, sorry. Well, then, not only Brennan, but Couch, Jackson,
Fischer, & Edwards were all coached too, to say that the shooter's window
was wide open, or not open that low, as in the "nest" window! But explain
why 5 witnesses would have been coached to contradict the official
story....

> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jTmnYgFvqzM/Tvw3vTpzhsI/AAAAAAAABuI/QJ__Z34iHho/s1200-h/Howard-Brennan-Affidavit.gif
>
> cut

> Mr. Brennan: No, sir.
> CJ. Warren: Thank you very much, Mr. Brennan.
> Mr. Brennan: I would like to ask a question off the record.
> CJ. Warren: Off the record.
> (Discussion off the record.)
>
>
> Wouldn't we like to know what all the discussions off the record were?
> Maybe they were secretly recorded and the government is still
> withholding those records.

The "off the record" discussion I'd most like to hear is the follow-up to
cabbie Scoggins' testimony that he left the Tippit scene in a cop car,
which, again, goes against the official story.

(Again, I'm not going to re-quote what I've already quoted, but this
passage occurs about 10 pages after Scoggins testified [to the WC] that he
left the scene in his cab, when the cops wouldn't talk to him. So, later
he testifies that not only did they talk to him, they took him with them!)

dcw

[Bud]

Never.

[bigdog]

On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 12:13:05 PM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 1/12/2015 8:42 PM, bigdog wrote:
> > On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 10:39:24 AM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> >>
> >> http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/dillardc.jpg
> >> http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/dillardd.jpg
> >
> > That's nice, Tony, but we were discussing specifically the version of the
> > photo in Richard Trask's book. Got that one on your website? Can you find
> > that with a google search? Didn't think so?
>
> Which version? Which page? Do you have a point? Can you find any files
> on my Website? I doubt it. Can you find anything on Google? I doubt it.
>

So this is your roundabout way of saying you don't have a copy of the photo from Trask's book on your website and can't find it through a google search.

> >
> > My guess is that since Trask's book was largely pictorial, there are
> > probably copyright issues with posting photos directlly from his book.
> >
>
> That's cheap slander. Based on not having actually seen his book. It is
> full of research.
> I have no problem posting anything from his book. A lot of the photos
> he got from the National Archives just I have.
> I can scan in pages from books, but others have already done that.
>

So you don't have the photo we were specifically discussing. Your
contribution to this discussion is of no value.

[Walt]

He drew the gun back from the window as though he was drawing it back to

his side and maybe paused another second as though to assure hisself hat

he hit his mark and then he disappeared. And, at the same moment, I was
diving off of that firewall and to the right for bullet protection of this
stone wall that is a little higher on the Houston side.-

IF THE MAN HAD BEEN FIRING FROM THE SE WINDOW BRENNAN'S ACTION WOULD NOT
HAVE PROTECTED HIM...... THE GUNMAN WAS TO THE WEST OF HIS LOCATION NOT
DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET.

> ...

[donald willis]

He was shown a Dillard photo of the TSBD taken just after 12:30, & was
asked if the configuration of the windows reflected what he remembered.
Pointedly, he testified that the "nest" window did NOT--it was too "low".
He told Belin that the windows below, on the 5th floor, instead, reflected
his memory of how wide the window in which he saw the rifle was open.
The overshy Belin did not advise Brennan that the photo was in fact taken
about 12:30! With buddies like Belin, it's no wonder that LNers think
they have a case....

dcw

[Bud]

This is just more hobbyist gameplaying, you aren`t showing that Brennan
reversed himself on the location of the shooter. And you never will,
because it exists only in your imagination.

[Anthony Marsh]

Please learn to post correctly so that we can tell what you are quoting
and when you add your own comment. Of course Brennan's story is stupid.
But the photographic evidence shows where he was sitting and he had to
jump off the wall to duck for cover. No photographic evidence shows
exactly what column he tried to hide behind, but the column to the right
side of the reflecting pool would give someone cover from a rifle firing
from the sniper's nest. Euins demonstrated that in some of the
recreations. But no films or photos show Brennan or Euins actually doing
that. Maybe he ducked down behind Toni and used her as a shield.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 1/16/2015 1:34 PM, bigdog wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 12:13:05 PM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>> On 1/12/2015 8:42 PM, bigdog wrote:
>>> On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 10:39:24 AM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/dillardc.jpg
>>>> http://www.the-puzzle-palace.com/dillardd.jpg
>>>
>>> That's nice, Tony, but we were discussing specifically the version of the
>>> photo in Richard Trask's book. Got that one on your website? Can you find
>>> that with a google search? Didn't think so?
>>
>> Which version? Which page? Do you have a point? Can you find any files
>> on my Website? I doubt it. Can you find anything on Google? I doubt it.
>>
> So this is your roundabout way of saying you don't have a copy of the photo from Trask's book on your website and can't find it through a google search.

Are you trying to quote me or make up your own reply. I know you don't
have your own Web site. I doubt that you have Trask's book. I do. And I
have my own Web site. I have several versions of the Dillard photos. I did
not scan in the page from Trask's book. I can do that just for you as a
favor, but the quality would not be as good as others you can find online.

>>>
>>> My guess is that since Trask's book was largely pictorial, there are
>>> probably copyright issues with posting photos directlly from his book.
>>>
>>
>> That's cheap slander. Based on not having actually seen his book. It is
>> full of research.
>> I have no problem posting anything from his book. A lot of the photos
>> he got from the National Archives just I have.
>> I can scan in pages from books, but others have already done that.
>>
>
> So you don't have the photo we were specifically discussing. Your
> contribution to this discussion is of no value.
>

So you don't have the Trask book. Thus your contribution to this
discussion is worthless.

As I said before, I have the negative from the National Archives. You
don't.

>
>
>

[donald willis]

On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 6:56:35 PM UTC-8, Bud wrote:
> > > > > He indicated where the shooter was in his affidavit.
> > > >
> > > > Then, in his testimony, he rejected the 6th-floor window!
> > > > dcw
> > >
> > > Never.
> >
> > He was shown a Dillard photo of the TSBD taken just after 12:30, & was
> > asked if the configuration of the windows reflected what he remembered.
> > Pointedly, he testified that the "nest" window did NOT--it was too "low".
> > He told Belin that the windows below, on the 5th floor, instead, reflected
> > his memory of how wide the window in which he saw the rifle was open.
> > The overshy Belin did not advise Brennan that the photo was in fact taken
> > about 12:30! With buddies like Belin, it's no wonder that LNers think
> > they have a case....
> >
> > dcw
>
> This is just more hobbyist gameplaying, you aren`t showing that Brennan
> reversed himself on the location of the shooter. And you never will,
> because it exists only in your imagination.

ONly Belin knew, & he wasn't talling, although he persisted in his
"imagination" & kept asking witnesses how wide the shooter's window was
open, & he invariably got the same response. Hint: The answer was not
what his boss's wanted....

dcw

[Bud]

On Saturday, January 17, 2015 at 6:30:02 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote:
> On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 6:56:35 PM UTC-8, Bud wrote:
> > > > > > He indicated where the shooter was in his affidavit.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then, in his testimony, he rejected the 6th-floor window!
> > > > > dcw
> > > >
> > > > Never.
> > >
> > > He was shown a Dillard photo of the TSBD taken just after 12:30, & was
> > > asked if the configuration of the windows reflected what he remembered.
> > > Pointedly, he testified that the "nest" window did NOT--it was too "low".
> > > He told Belin that the windows below, on the 5th floor, instead, reflected
> > > his memory of how wide the window in which he saw the rifle was open.
> > > The overshy Belin did not advise Brennan that the photo was in fact taken
> > > about 12:30! With buddies like Belin, it's no wonder that LNers think
> > > they have a case....
> > >
> > > dcw
> >
> > This is just more hobbyist gameplaying, you aren`t showing that Brennan
> > reversed himself on the location of the shooter. And you never will,
> > because it exists only in your imagination.
>
> ONly Belin knew, & he wasn't talling,

In support of what you imagine you offer what you figure Belin was
thinking. Way to firm up your ideas, dw!

[donald willis]

On Sunday, January 18, 2015 at 8:08:04 PM UTC-8, Bud wrote:
> On Saturday, January 17, 2015 at 6:30:02 PM UTC-5, donald willis wrote:
> > On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 6:56:35 PM UTC-8, Bud wrote:
> > > > > > > He indicated where the shooter was in his affidavit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then, in his testimony, he rejected the 6th-floor window!
> > > > > > dcw
> > > > >
> > > > > Never.
> > > >
> > > > He was shown a Dillard photo of the TSBD taken just after 12:30, & was
> > > > asked if the configuration of the windows reflected what he remembered.
> > > > Pointedly, he testified that the "nest" window did NOT--it was too "low".
> > > > He told Belin that the windows below, on the 5th floor, instead, reflected
> > > > his memory of how wide the window in which he saw the rifle was open.
> > > > The overshy Belin did not advise Brennan that the photo was in fact taken
> > > > about 12:30! With buddies like Belin, it's no wonder that LNers think
> > > > they have a case....
> > > >
> > > > dcw
> > >
> > > This is just more hobbyist gameplaying, you aren`t showing that Brennan
> > > reversed himself on the location of the shooter. And you never will,
> > > because it exists only in your imagination.
> >
> > ONly Belin knew, & he wasn't talling,
>
> In support of what you imagine you offer what you figure Belin was
> thinking. Way to firm up your ideas, dw!

And what Belin was *doing* was asking subsequent witnesses how wide that
window was open. He asked Brennan first, then Fischer, Edwards, and
Couch, and got the same response from each of them --it was open all the
way. In other words, it wasn't the 6th-floor "nest", so-called....

dcw

[Bud]

In your words, not theirs. You`ve failed to show that Brennan rejected
the information he supplied in his affidavit in regards to the location of
the shooter.

[donald willis]

No -- their words: "wide open" "all the way open" "not that low".
Which window is that? You tell me....

You`ve failed to show that Brennan rejected
> the information he supplied in his affidavit in regards to the location of
> the shooter.

Belin never gave him a chance. He let Brennan continue to think, through
the whole questioning, that the Dillard photo was taken at another time,
not circa 12:30pm 11/22/63. Helps LNers when you have a well-placed
weasel on your side, eh?

dcw

[Bud]

It is only your imagination that these words negate the locations they
gave, the witnesses never said any such thing.

> You`ve failed to show that Brennan rejected
> > the information he supplied in his affidavit in regards to the location of
> > the shooter.
>
> Belin never gave him a chance.

Nonsense.

> He let Brennan continue to think, through
> the whole questioning, that the Dillard photo was taken at another time,
> not circa 12:30pm 11/22/63. Helps LNers when you have a well-placed
> weasel on your side, eh?

If that was Belin`s intent why would he use that photo at all? Any photo
of the front of the TSBD could be used for Brennan to indicate where he
saw the shooter.

> dcw

[donald willis]

On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 6:54:12 PM cut

> > > In your words, not theirs.
> >
> > No -- their words: "wide open" "all the way open" "not that low".
> > Which window is that? You tell me....
>
> It is only your imagination that these words negate the locations they
> gave, the witnesses never said any such thing.
>
> > You`ve failed to show that Brennan rejected
> > > the information he supplied in his affidavit in regards to the location of
> > > the shooter.
> >
> > Belin never gave him a chance.
>
> Nonsense.
>
> > He let Brennan continue to think, through
> > the whole questioning, that the Dillard photo was taken at another time,
> > not circa 12:30pm 11/22/63. Helps LNers when you have a well-placed
> > weasel on your side, eh?
>
> If that was Belin`s intent why would he use that photo at all?

It was not Belin's intent going into the interview. He assumed that
Brennan would rubber-stamp the look of the upper windows--the floor, the
openness or not of the windows. That it would all be cut & dry. And
Brennan indeed chose the *right* location of the "nest". But he said
that, at the time of the shooting, the window was "not that low". Belin,
thrown for a loop, didn't press the issue, or clarify that the photo
showed the windows at just about the time of the shooting. He just went
on, leaving Brennan in the dark, & later asked Fischer, Edwards, & Couch
how wide the window was open, and all four wound up saying it was wide
open. Note also that Edwards originally also said that the window was on
the 5th floor....

dcw

[bigdog]

So you are just assuming Brennan would have said that.

[donald willis]

On Friday, January 23, 2015 at 5:27:35 PM UTC-8, bigdog wrote: cut

> > You`ve failed to show that Brennan rejected
> > > the information he supplied in his affidavit in regards to the location of
> > > the shooter.
> >
> > Belin never gave him a chance. He let Brennan continue to think, through
> > the whole questioning, that the Dillard photo was taken at another time,
> > not circa 12:30pm 11/22/63. Helps LNers when you have a well-placed
> > weasel on your side, eh?
> >
>
> So you are just assuming Brennan would have said that.

No, he actually did say that--he said that the Dillard photo did not show
how wide the shooters's window was open "at the time of the shooting".

dcw