WAS MARINA A SLUT?

[John Deagle]

Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. She impressed me as an honest girl. She really
impressed me as an honest girl, and not malicious, not malicious,
promiscuous, you know.
Mr. JENNER. What?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Promiscuous.
Mr. JENNER. She was promiscuous but not malicious?

[David Von Pein]

I think Jeanne was implying that Marina was NOT promiscuous there. The
"not" that she used in front of the word "malicious" was also meant to
extend to the next word---promiscuous---as well. (IMHO.)

Also, I find it hard to believe that Mrs. DeMohrenschildt would actually
be calling Marina Oswald "promiscuous" in front of the Warren Commission
(and, in essence, in front of the whole world). That's rather outrageous,
particularly since Jeanne really didn't know Marina all that well.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

David: If you go back over both of the DeMohrenschildt's testimonies
you'll see repeated references to the Oswald's sex lives and how Marina
openly complained to them, especially Jeanne (who said she was shocked
about it), about being dissatisfied with Oswald's "performance." It's
pretty striking.

This for example:
Mr. JENNER. What were the reasons she said why she was dissatisfied with
him?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Oh, there was quite a few reasons. And I tell
you---it was strange for me to hear from a young girl like that to speak
so, how you say it--so boldy, about sex, for instance. I was shocked by
it, you know--because in my times, even I was twice as old as she.

And this:
Mr. JENNER. Now, I asked you as to the sources of difficulty, and you related
them. Did she twit him about his inability to make enough money so that
she could live better?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. That was one complaint. Another complaint,
sexwise, he wasn't satisfactory for her. In fact, she was almost sick that
she wasn't getting enough sex, which I never heard of before. I didn't know
such things can happen to people, you know.

I'm not sure how this fits into the assassination other than perhaps
indicating again how Oswald was failing in his life. As in: "Desperate men
do desperate things".

[Mark]

My bad for not beating you to it, David. For saying something positive on
behalf of Marina, I mean.

She might as well be dead, as in dead people cannot defend themselves --
she's not likely to get into the assassination debate anymore.

She wasn't a good woman in those day, IMO, but she wasn't a bad one
either. She put up with a lot. Mark

[John McAdams]

On 24 Aug 2019 20:33:46 -0400, "Steve M. Galbraith"

Marina because extremely promiscuous after the assassination.

It was a bit concern of the Warren Commission, and the FBI actually
bugged her bedroom, according to Shenon.

Note that she was in a really tough spot at that point, not speaking
English and no husband.

Perhaps this behavior can be explained by her urgent need to find a
male protector.
.John
-------------------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[John Deagle]

Marina cheated on Oswald with a former Russian boyfriend. She also had an
affair with Robert Oswald. She engaged in orgies in Russia. She was
promiscuous.

[John Deagle]

On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 3:05:04 PM UTC-3, David Von Pein wrote:

Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Not malicious.

[John Deagle]

On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 3:05:04 PM UTC-3, David Von Pein wrote:

Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, these sort of orgies, you know, wild parties, and things like that that I would never think that youth would be busy with because we saw some youngsters in Yugoslavian companies in the camps, we saw the healthier ones and the bad ones stayed in the city probably, but they were all just like Scouts, you know, just like we were brought up, interested in sports or in collections or something, you know. They had wonderful healthy interests.
And Marina was exactly opposite all of these things. In fact, in spite of that, she was a pharmacologist, that means she has a good head. But somehow she was not at all what I would picture as a Soviet girl. It was entirely opposite, and maybe she is an exception, or maybe they all are, I don't know.
Mr. JENNER. And she related to you these wild parties and orgies in Minsk? Was that in the presence of Lee?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. No; I don't think so. Lee was there very, very little, because he was always working or something. One evening I talked with her very long when she came over to go to the dentist, and the baby was asleep and George was asleep, and she wanted to talk, and we sat down and had some wine and she could smoke all she wanted and she had wine that she wanted. So she told me quite a lot of things. I was really sorry for her.
I gave her a nylon nightgown and a little nylon coat that went on and she was sitting and touching it, "Can you imagine me wearing that," you know.
It was to her something out of this world, to have such things on her. That was sort of touching, you know. She really is pleasant. You cannot be very angry with her.

[David Von Pein]

But neither of those hunks of Warren Commission testimony above would lead
to a conclusion that Marina was necessarily "promiscuous" during the time
when Jeanne DeMohrenschildt knew her.

In fact, this excerpt of testimony (below) that you quoted actually would
tend to lead to a conclusion that Marina was NOT promiscuous. Because a
person who "wasn't getting enough sex" can hardly be categorized as
"promiscuous", can they?....

MRS. JEANNE DeMOHRENSCHILDT -- "Another complaint, sexwise, he wasn't

satisfactory for her. In fact, she was almost sick that she wasn't getting

enough sex."

However, to be fair, I suppose you can theorize that the above testimony
*could*, indeed, indicate that Marina was a loose woman who was cheating
on LHO, and that when Jeanne heard Marina say she "wasn't getting enough
sex", it merely meant that Marina wasn't copulating enough with LEE
HARVEY, but perhaps she *was* doing the horizontal mambo with other men.

But because of my fondness for Marina Oswald Porter, I still prefer to
believe that the testimony produced in the opening post of this discussion
can be interpreted in a way which has Mrs. Jeanne DeMohrenschildt implying
that she was of the opinion that Mrs. Marina Oswald (as of early to mid
1963) was *not* exhibiting "promiscuous" behavior.

Perry.....your witness.

:) :) :)

[John McAdams]

On 25 Aug 2019 12:24:24 -0400, David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com>

Add to what you have said the fact that her ability to get out and
about to engage in an adulterous affair was extremely limited.

As for "fondness" for Marina: Norman Mailer presents her as somebody
who had had a tough background even before she came to Minsk and met
Oswald. Of course, after hooking up with Oswald, things became worse.

According to Mailer, she did not have sex with Oswald before their
wedding night. Mailer says she was raped by an Armenian while hanging
around with a rather "loose" female friend. He doesn't mention any of
the supposed orgies.

It's difficult to judge her harshly, given the trials she has been
subjected to, starting very early on.


.John
-------------------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[John Deagle]

Why are you defending Marina? She cheated on Oswald in Minsk. She nagged
him about stupid stuff. Read Oswald's Tale by Norman Mailer. The KGB
bugged Oswald's Minsk apartment and wrote down the dialogue between Oswald
and his nasty wife. Marina was incredibly mean to Oswald on November 21st.
Marina did not inform the police that her husband tried to assassinate
General Walker. Marina was a nasty bitch.

[Mark]

I'm not sure what your point is reference Marina and the assassination.

If you believe everything the de Mohrenschildts said (and I'm not saying
you do), well I don't. I take everything from them with a large grain of
rock salt. Don't forget one half of that couple had serious mental
problems and shot himself dead.

My conjecture is that they were wanna-be Important People, who exaggerated
their association with the Oswalds in order to get their 15 minutes of
national attention via JFK's murder.

It wasn't the first time someone tried that.

Again, I'm not sure what the point is. We cannot visit the sins of her
husband on Marina. She never tried to shoot anyone. She was appalled at
Lee's attempted murder of Walker, and she was crushed (though perhaps not
completely surprised after the Walker attempt) by his murder of President
Kennedy.

I've noticed how articulate Jeanne was. I think a 9th Grader could have
done a better job of description. Both were what they were: wanna-be's.

Mark

[John Deagle]

David do you think a woman who engages in orgies in Russia could be
described as promiscuous?

[John Deagle]

Why didn't Marina tell the Dallas police that her husband tried to kill
General Walker? She was one evil little brat.

[19efppp]

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 7:08:15 PM UTC-4, John Deagle wrote:

Look at those Lone Nutters go! They really do enjoy discussing a topic on
which they are allowed to disagree! It's like Trump leaving his
teleprompter to babble at a rally.

[Anthony Marsh]

No one should be talking about her sex life. Are you a Christian?
Who are you to be casting the first stone?

>
> .John
> -------------------------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
>

[Anthony Marsh]

On 8/25/2019 4:45 PM, John Deagle wrote:
> On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 9:36:45 PM UTC-3, Mark wrote:
>> On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 1:05:04 PM UTC-5, David Von Pein wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 7:08:15 PM UTC-4, John Deagle wrote:
>>>> Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. She impressed me as an honest girl. She really
>>>> impressed me as an honest girl, and not malicious, not malicious,
>>>> promiscuous, you know.
>>>> Mr. JENNER. What?
>>>> Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Promiscuous.
>>>> Mr. JENNER. She was promiscuous but not malicious?
>>>
>>> I think Jeanne was implying that Marina was NOT promiscuous there. The
>>> "not" that she used in front of the word "malicious" was also meant to
>>> extend to the next word---promiscuous---as well. (IMHO.)
>>>
>>> Also, I find it hard to believe that Mrs. DeMohrenschildt would actually
>>> be calling Marina Oswald "promiscuous" in front of the Warren Commission
>>> (and, in essence, in front of the whole world). That's rather outrageous,
>>> particularly since Jeanne really didn't know Marina all that well.
>>
>> My bad for not beating you to it, David. For saying something positive on
>> behalf of Marina, I mean.
>>
>> She might as well be dead, as in dead people cannot defend themselves --
>> she's not likely to get into the assassination debate anymore.
>>
>> She wasn't a good woman in those day, IMO, but she wasn't a bad one
>> either. She put up with a lot. Mark
>
> Why are you defending Marina? She cheated on Oswald in Minsk. She nagged

What gives you the right to talk that way about ANY person, especially a
woman.

Enough is enough.

[BT George]

Now you will be damned to Hell for saying such a blatantly "sexist" thing.
:-)

> .John
> -------------------------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[BT George]

And your point is in terms of the Assassination? Or is this just a
personal peeve of yours?

[Mark]

That's a valid question. I would stick with that and leave her sex life
out of it. If you can show a connection between her "promiscuity" (I
purposely put quote marks around the term) and her husband's murder of JFK
I'll rethink the issue.

Put yourself in her five-and-dime shoes. Yes, legally and morally she
should have turned Lee in to the police after the Walker murder attempt.
But she had no job, her English was broken, and she had daughter/s to look
out for.

Given her social and economic standing, I'm not surprised she didn't go to
the authorities. As bad of a provider as Lee was, he was the only one she
had.

I'm guessing the thought of turning him in crossed her mind more than
once. If she had been in the middle-class with just a little bit of
economic independence, maybe she would have.

"One evil little brat"? Let's not confuse the issue: Her husband was the
evil little brat. Mark

[Mark]

Well put your bag of popcorn in the microwave and click on high and
welcome to the show.

But I notice from your post that you do see the difference about what we
LNs disagree with each other on compared to CTs.

We might disagree about whether Marina was a real sweetheart, but we don't
argue over who killed President Kennedy.

Do we have disagreements about how or why Oswald carried out his
self-radicalized mission? Yes, of course.

But we don't have a couple of hundred (a couple of thousand?) different
conspiracy theories. We don't stab each other in the back like CTs do if
one of you doesn't buy the other's theory.

Here's a prime example: You think Marsh is a CTINO -- a conspiracy
theorist in name only.

I'm sorry you are so far out there in Conspiracyland that you can't see
it, but Marsh is a hardcore CT. Mark

[CAMPBE...@yahoo.com]

Why is this question even posted? We all remember that Marina is still
alive and could see this post,right?

[John Deagle]

I am a NAZI. I cannot be a Christian. Are you casting a stone at a NAZI
like me?

[19efppp]

Lone Nutters are a cult and most conspiracy theorists are fake. The real
ones are just individuals, and individuals will often disagree.

[Anthony Marsh]

Well, it was raining hard and he couldn't see the words.

[John Deagle]

On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 4:38:44 PM UTC-3, Anthony Marsh wrote:

What gives you the right to talk about Trump's sex life? Are you a
hypocrite? Are you the casting director for Oliver Stone?

[John Deagle]

My point is that Oswald would have been arrested for attempted murder and
there never would have been a JFK assassination by Oswald.

[John Deagle]

On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 9:40:45 PM UTC-3, CAMPBE...@YAHOO.COM wrote:
> Why is this question even posted? We all remember that Marina is still
> alive and could see this post,right?

I'm trying to contact Marina this way.

[BT George]

But that has little to do with her sex life. Also, I think you have to
recall she was alone in America, didn't speak English, and came from
Soviet Russia and really knew very little about the US back then beyond
Soviet propaganda. So it's reasonable to assume that:

1) She feared reporting this, because such an an attempt on a Soviet
General might have ended with you and your family deported to a
Siberian Gulag, and she may have feared we might handle things
similarly.

2) She had no idea at this point how else she would provide for herself
and her child. (I think the second was on the way too at this point.)

Under the same type of circumstances, I am afraid a lot of young mothers
might have chosen a similar course, not foreseeing that anyone unstable
enough to do this wasn't going to learn and feel lucky, but would just
turn around and pull a similar stunt in the future.

[Anthony Marsh]

Well, many Nazis claimed to be Cristians.

[Anthony Marsh]

Marina did not commit a crime, Trump did.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 8/24/2019 8:36 PM, Mark wrote:

> On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 1:05:04 PM UTC-5, David Von Pein wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 7:08:15 PM UTC-4, John Deagle wrote:

>>> Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. She impressed me as an honest girl. She really
>>> impressed me as an honest girl, and not malicious, not malicious,
>>> promiscuous, you know.
>>> Mr. JENNER. What?
>>> Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Promiscuous.
>>> Mr. JENNER. She was promiscuous but not malicious?
>>
>> I think Jeanne was implying that Marina was NOT promiscuous there. The
>> "not" that she used in front of the word "malicious" was also meant to
>> extend to the next word---promiscuous---as well. (IMHO.)
>>
>> Also, I find it hard to believe that Mrs. DeMohrenschildt would actually
>> be calling Marina Oswald "promiscuous" in front of the Warren Commission
>> (and, in essence, in front of the whole world). That's rather outrageous,
>> particularly since Jeanne really didn't know Marina all that well.
>

> My bad for not beating you to it, David. For saying something positive on
> behalf of Marina, I mean.
>
> She might as well be dead, as in dead people cannot defend themselves --
> she's not likely to get into the assassination debate anymore.
>

Marina came up to our conference in Harvard a few years ago.

[Anthony Marsh]

His point not mine, but my point was that if Marina had told the police
that Lee hard tried to assassinate General Walker he would have been in
prison on 11.22.63. Nor sure he could make a good shot from prison.

[Anthony Marsh]

Watch, he'll call June a slut next.

[Mark]

No, Marsh, he's not. Why would you say such a thing? Mark

[John Deagle]

Christian Szell in Marathon Man?

[John Deagle]

Marina committed a crime called adultery. She broke one of the Ten
Commandments. Trump was loyal to his wives and did not commit adultery
like King David.

[Anthony Marsh]

No, silly. The contract is null and void when the husband dies.

> Commandments. Trump was loyal to his wives and did not commit adultery
> like King David.
>

He admitted that he committed adultery, but he could not be charged
where he lived.

[John Deagle]

Was he lying when he said that he committed adultery? Trump was probably
just kidding around. Maybe the women sexually assaulted Trump, but he did
not want to press charges.

[John Deagle]

Silly? Marina cheated on Oswald in Minsk. The filthy slut was still
married to that Marxist Oswald.

[Anthony Marsh]

So you claim, but as usual you can't prove anything ever.

[John Deagle]

The sounds of her cheating were captured on a dictabelt. The man's name
was Frank Bender Over. The infidelity appears in Priscilla MvMillan's
Marina and Lee. It's already been proven, but you did not know this FACT
beacause you suffer from FACTUAL IMPAIRMENT.

[John Deagle]

Marina cheated on Lee. you never heard of the Walker affair?